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SYSK Selects: Lying Liars: How Lying Works, Liar · Stuff You Should Know

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, This is Chuck and welcome to Uh. I
0:05
Speaker 1: guess this is week three of s Y S Kate Selects,
0:10
Speaker 1: where we give you one of our favorite or maybe
0:12
Speaker 1: a timely episode from our vault that maybe you didn't hear.
0:16
Speaker 1: And uh we're curating these individually, and this is my
0:20
Speaker 1: pick lying Liars colon how lying works? Liar, I think
0:26
Speaker 1: that was It sounds like a Josh title. It's a
0:28
Speaker 1: great one. This is from June of twelve, and um,
0:32
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just remember this being a pretty
0:34
Speaker 1: good episode and lying is um just a pretty interesting
0:38
Speaker 1: concept to me. And so I wanted to make this
0:41
Speaker 1: my selection this week and I hope you enjoy it.
0:45
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works
0:48
Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
0:58
Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Right, Yeah, take it, Chuck,
1:05
Speaker 1: Josh that that shirt looks great on you today. I
1:08
Speaker 1: just want to say that, Uh, I really like a
1:11
Speaker 1: checked pattern. Well, I see what you're doing. Um, you're
1:14
Speaker 1: blinking and you're scratching your face. It looks like you
1:16
Speaker 1: have scabies like my friend Dirty Mitch. Yeah. Um, but
1:21
Speaker 1: that doesn't indicate necessarily that you're lying. I'm glad you
1:24
Speaker 1: said necessarily, because they didn't say that in this article,
1:26
Speaker 1: and that was a very important omission. Now they did.
1:29
Speaker 1: They didn't say necessarily, they meaning Tom, Tom didn't say necessarily.
1:34
Speaker 1: I had to write it in because what we're talking
1:37
Speaker 1: about are potential tells whether or not whether that you
1:42
Speaker 1: can recognize a lie. And people often associate blinking, scratching
1:47
Speaker 1: the face, covering the mouth as uh, surefire indicators. And
1:53
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily the cases. No, it's not. And let's
1:55
Speaker 1: just get that out right now. Um. It's because there
1:58
Speaker 1: aren't any sure fire behaviors where you're like, oh, you're lying,
2:02
Speaker 1: Like the one I always heard was touching your touching
2:04
Speaker 1: your face, right, that's it's based on the idea that
2:10
Speaker 1: somebody might do that if they don't normally do that,
2:14
Speaker 1: or if before this whole conversation started and a lie, Uh,
2:19
Speaker 1: they're placed in a position where they're lying, where they're
2:21
Speaker 1: choosing to lie, and they start doing that, they are
2:24
Speaker 1: now deviating from their baseline behavior. And that's what the
2:27
Speaker 1: important thing is exactly. That's where you add the qualifier necessarily.
2:31
Speaker 1: Like Tom said, like maybe the dude has an eyelash
2:35
Speaker 1: in his eye, Jason, he's rubbing his eyes or blinking
2:38
Speaker 1: a lot, So yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, that's why he's
2:43
Speaker 1: scratching his face um orca. Or maybe someone's self conscious
2:48
Speaker 1: because of a missing front tooth, so they cover their
2:50
Speaker 1: mouth when they talk. I cover my mouth when I talk, um,
2:54
Speaker 1: especially when I'm eating. Oh yeah, sure, but you're just
2:57
Speaker 1: not supposed to talk while you eat. Yeah, Emily does
3:00
Speaker 1: that because she can't stop talking ever, so she'll just
3:03
Speaker 1: talk while she eats and cover her mouth. So I'm
3:06
Speaker 1: not even gonna bother to ask you if you've ever lied?
3:09
Speaker 1: I've lied today? Have you some of you? I'm sure?
3:14
Speaker 1: Apparently according to studies I have. Um, you found a
3:18
Speaker 1: few studies that I've I've thought were a little let's
3:22
Speaker 1: get into them, okay, I mean, so they're surprising. Like
3:25
Speaker 1: one of them found that a quarter of of all
3:28
Speaker 1: of our daily interactions involved lies. That's really high. I like,
3:35
Speaker 1: I really, I don't think like I'm naive. I I
3:38
Speaker 1: went back and just kind of like evaluated my behavior.
3:40
Speaker 1: I'm like, it still seems high. Agreed, So, uh, who
3:45
Speaker 1: does everyone else lying more than us? Are these just
3:48
Speaker 1: a really rotten people. I don't know that happened to
3:53
Speaker 1: be part of this random sample in the study. Well,
3:56
Speaker 1: and you know, you pull up any study online and
3:58
Speaker 1: you're going to find a different result, Like people are
4:00
Speaker 1: every ninety minutes, people are every ninety seconds, she lied
4:03
Speaker 1: twice a day, that kind of thing. Yeah, so, um
4:06
Speaker 1: Phi psychologist failing miserably at studying lying is what you're
4:10
Speaker 1: saying as far as coming up with hard because I
4:12
Speaker 1: don't think there are any hard and fast rules. I
4:15
Speaker 1: might not lie at all today, or I might like
4:17
Speaker 1: ten times tomorrow. If you don't lie at all to day,
4:19
Speaker 1: they'll make a movie about you. Don't They make movies
4:22
Speaker 1: like that. You either can't lie Jim Carrey's case or yeah,
4:28
Speaker 1: that's usually the plot. Yeah. So so I guess before
4:33
Speaker 1: we get into the studies, do you want to talk
4:34
Speaker 1: about what is a lie? Yeah? You dug this up.
4:37
Speaker 1: I like these definitions. So there's this philosopher named Cecelia
4:41
Speaker 1: Bach who is a Swedish philosopher who published a book
4:44
Speaker 1: in the nine that apparently still to this day it's
4:47
Speaker 1: like the the authority um lying and philosophically speaking. The
4:52
Speaker 1: work in the seventies in psychology. I think they were
4:55
Speaker 1: smoking a lot of weed, that's what it was. Um. Yeah,
4:58
Speaker 1: and she's a philosopher. Um, so this is the philosophical
5:01
Speaker 1: ethical approach to lying. And so cecili Bach came up
5:05
Speaker 1: with basically a definition of a lie, and she said
5:09
Speaker 1: that it has three features, Um, that it communicates some information. Now,
5:15
Speaker 1: philosophers tend to choose their words carefully. They're like almost
5:19
Speaker 1: the poets of the humanities, especially if you don't include
5:24
Speaker 1: poetry as a humanity. Um. The liar intends to deceive
5:28
Speaker 1: or mislead, of course, and the liar believes that what
5:31
Speaker 1: they're saying is not true. So they haven't tricked themselves
5:34
Speaker 1: into believing, uh that they like O. J believes that
5:39
Speaker 1: he did not kill his wife. Yeah. I don't know.
5:42
Speaker 1: I think that's a different conversation altogether, because that begs
5:46
Speaker 1: the question is it really possible to fully trick yourself
5:49
Speaker 1: into believing something you know is not true is true?
5:54
Speaker 1: You always hear that that can happen, Like you become
5:56
Speaker 1: so um entrenched in that lie for so long that
6:00
Speaker 1: you don't even realize it's a lie anymore. I'd like
6:03
Speaker 1: to see the study on that, though, yeah, I'm sure
6:06
Speaker 1: somebody's got one out here. But so those three you
6:08
Speaker 1: put those three things together, and um, you have a lie.
6:12
Speaker 1: You're communicating information, right, yeah, Um, you're you're intend to
6:17
Speaker 1: deceive and you don't believe what you're saying is true.
6:19
Speaker 1: And I'll apologies to O J. By the way, that
6:22
Speaker 1: was really uncalled for. Yeah, really sorry, that was very
6:25
Speaker 1: uncalled for, Chuck, Shame on you for UM. So there's
6:31
Speaker 1: a big debate though about whether or not, um, the
6:35
Speaker 1: lie has to have false information to it. Yeah, that's
6:38
Speaker 1: what I don't quite understand. Can you explain that? Yes?
6:40
Speaker 1: So example, UM, I I like your shirt, and I
6:45
Speaker 1: know that you hate shirts that have armpit stains on them.
6:50
Speaker 1: But I know at that at the present time you
6:53
Speaker 1: also have a pinch nerve in your neck so you
6:56
Speaker 1: can't see very clearly. Okay, So I want your shirt.
7:00
Speaker 1: I know you'll give it to me if I tell
7:01
Speaker 1: you there's an armpit stain. I don't think there's an
7:04
Speaker 1: armpit stain. I don't believe what I'm saying is true.
7:06
Speaker 1: But I say, Chuck that that modest master it is
7:08
Speaker 1: an armpit stain. You should probably give it to me,
7:10
Speaker 1: and you take it off and give it to me,
7:13
Speaker 1: and the shirt actually has an armpit stain. And someone
7:16
Speaker 1: pops their head and goes, want, want Want. That was
7:19
Speaker 1: not false information. Even though I intended to deceive you.
7:23
Speaker 1: I didn't believe what I was saying. I was just
7:25
Speaker 1: communicating information. That's the that's the point. But that brings
7:29
Speaker 1: up another philosophical question, like, is a lie of omission
7:33
Speaker 1: then a lie because you're not communicating anything. In Tom's
7:37
Speaker 1: article they talk about um, the reason the U. S.
7:40
Speaker 1: Court system say the whole truth and nothing but the
7:43
Speaker 1: truth is because a lie of omission sometimes is not
7:47
Speaker 1: as UH look down upon, because you're not actually constructing
7:51
Speaker 1: some falsehead. You're just not telling the whole truth. Interesting. Yeah,
7:58
Speaker 1: a lot of the version of the yeah, you know, sure,
8:01
Speaker 1: I think. I think ultimately you can follow. The conclusion
8:04
Speaker 1: is that most philosophers believe that lying is bad, but
8:08
Speaker 1: that there are exceptions to the rule. Like if a
8:11
Speaker 1: murderer comes up and says, hey, I'm looking for my
8:14
Speaker 1: next victim. Have you seen this man and you have
8:17
Speaker 1: seen this man and you know where he is, then
8:20
Speaker 1: I'm making this really basic gets But that's a that's
8:24
Speaker 1: a that's an example of when a lie is beneficial.
8:27
Speaker 1: You're thwarting a murderer and saving somebody's life. Yes, you
8:30
Speaker 1: should lie, or obviously a white lie, which kids learned
8:33
Speaker 1: early on, um, is something you do oftentimes to spare
8:38
Speaker 1: the feelings of someone else. That that top does not
8:43
Speaker 1: make you look bad. I think it's cut, just just fun. Sure,
8:47
Speaker 1: but maybe you should wear that other one because you
8:48
Speaker 1: look great and black. Well you, I imagine if you're
8:53
Speaker 1: dealing with an intelligent person, you've showing your hand at
8:55
Speaker 1: that point. Not necessarily. Yeah, um, but you did mention kids,
9:00
Speaker 1: you mentioned white lies. Yeah, so you found a study. Supposedly,
9:06
Speaker 1: according to Tom, around age two or three, we realized
9:10
Speaker 1: that we're not being constantly supervised, that reality exists outside
9:17
Speaker 1: of other people's view. Our reality sometimes does. When we
9:20
Speaker 1: go into another room or Mom's in the other room,
9:22
Speaker 1: I'm still here playing yes, and it comes becomes clear
9:26
Speaker 1: to us that we are responsible for conveying that information.
9:31
Speaker 1: But we have a choice e g. Free will that
9:34
Speaker 1: allows us to decide whether that we convey that information
9:37
Speaker 1: truthfully or dishonestly. Right. Yeah, and then after that it
9:42
Speaker 1: just takes off like a rocket. Yeah, this one study, Um,
9:46
Speaker 1: found that nine and ten of the kids that they
9:49
Speaker 1: spied on, and this is just this is just cruel.
9:52
Speaker 1: They put kids in a room with like a stuffed
9:55
Speaker 1: animal or they called it a soft toy, which was
9:58
Speaker 1: a little creepy um behind them, and said don't look
10:02
Speaker 1: at that behind you, and they would leave the room
10:05
Speaker 1: in videotape them, and of course nine out of ten
10:07
Speaker 1: kids turned around looked at it. And then did I
10:10
Speaker 1: actually say how many of them lied? Um, I don't
10:15
Speaker 1: even see that. I guess they were just told not
10:16
Speaker 1: to look at it. And I don't know if that's
10:18
Speaker 1: a lie. You know, that's a little lanky. It's not
10:21
Speaker 1: following orders, it's disobeying all right, Well, how about this?
10:24
Speaker 1: The second part of that study was older kids. They
10:26
Speaker 1: would give them a test with the answers on the
10:27
Speaker 1: back and tell them not to look at the answers,
10:30
Speaker 1: give them a fake answer, and when they were asked
10:32
Speaker 1: to explain the fake answer, they would make up a
10:34
Speaker 1: lie like, oh I learned that in history class, right,
10:36
Speaker 1: And actually they the question was who discovered Tunisia? That's
10:40
Speaker 1: one of them and the on the back the answer
10:43
Speaker 1: um was a fake answer. Presidious Aikman and so some
10:48
Speaker 1: the dumb kids from Star Wars who cheated said it
10:51
Speaker 1: does doesn't. Um, the dumb kids who cheated put that
10:55
Speaker 1: down and uh. But then Wayne, given the opportunity to
10:58
Speaker 1: fest up with them lied. What I just disagree with
11:02
Speaker 1: about this study was that, um, it said that the
11:05
Speaker 1: smartest kids told the best lies. How do you qualify that?
11:09
Speaker 1: What a you know, the best lies? Uh? If it's
11:13
Speaker 1: believable and conveyed in a way that's uh. But that's
11:16
Speaker 1: all subjective with confidence, totally subjective. It's methodologically unsound. But
11:22
Speaker 1: the whole point of these studies was they believe that
11:24
Speaker 1: children who are able to lie, um, have faster developing brains,
11:31
Speaker 1: especially the areas involved in executive functioning. So they believe,
11:35
Speaker 1: they concur that a child who lies early on might
11:39
Speaker 1: be more successful later in life. Yeah. Well, I mean
11:42
Speaker 1: you can make a case that lying is um, basically
11:45
Speaker 1: using your imagination. Yeah, especially when you're a child. And
11:50
Speaker 1: they they have other studies that support the fact that
11:53
Speaker 1: rich people are more prone to lie and manipulate. So
11:59
Speaker 1: rich people are more trying to do a lot of
12:01
Speaker 1: shady stuff. You think, well, yeah, that's how a lot
12:05
Speaker 1: of them get rich. Huh. Yeah, m hmm, chuck um.
12:12
Speaker 1: You want to talk about why people tell lies, like
12:16
Speaker 1: some of the great categories of lies, the Big six.
12:21
Speaker 1: So what you call it? Sure? Number one, Josh, is
12:24
Speaker 1: to conceal a misdeed instead of trouble. And even at
12:27
Speaker 1: the advanced stage of forty one, this is the reason
12:30
Speaker 1: I will most often lie because I hate being in
12:34
Speaker 1: trouble and I will try and cover for myself. Uh sometimes,
12:39
Speaker 1: even though in the end and in the long run,
12:43
Speaker 1: it's better to tell the truth, agreed. The the short term,
12:46
Speaker 1: you might get away with something, but you're not doing
12:48
Speaker 1: yourself any favors. I call these lies of cowardice, thank you.
12:53
Speaker 1: It's basically it sucks. I mean, it's that you're you're
12:56
Speaker 1: having to like go through this terrible, uncomfortable, you know,
13:01
Speaker 1: moment or whatever it is. But I'm really glad Tom
13:06
Speaker 1: pointed out at least in the short term you might
13:08
Speaker 1: not gain an advantage, but overall, like there is a
13:10
Speaker 1: positive outcome. You're building trust by fessing out or whatever
13:14
Speaker 1: you know. Number two to preserve a reputation. Um and
13:18
Speaker 1: the example time uses a drug a drug addict recovering
13:22
Speaker 1: drug addict who might lie about having gone to rehab
13:25
Speaker 1: or something like that, or to like a perspective romantic partner. Yeah,
13:31
Speaker 1: and I think that these are kind of understandable to
13:33
Speaker 1: an extent. It's it's like, you know, we have walls up. Yeah,
13:38
Speaker 1: you know, you know if you're if you're just a
13:40
Speaker 1: normal person, you don't walk down the street like, hey, Josh,
13:43
Speaker 1: get to meet you. I spent some time in rehably,
13:46
Speaker 1: like there's just a certain amount and then once you
13:47
Speaker 1: get to that point, well then maybe you are kind
13:50
Speaker 1: of short shrifting somebody who's who you consider close to
13:54
Speaker 1: um if you're not telling them that. But as you
13:57
Speaker 1: gain trust, then you open up more and you should um.
14:02
Speaker 1: Number three this one, of course, we all get the
14:04
Speaker 1: white lie to avoid hurting someone's feelings. We already kind
14:07
Speaker 1: of covered that. Number four. To increase stature or reputation. Yeah,
14:13
Speaker 1: these are just the boastful people. They're like, yeah, I
14:16
Speaker 1: scored forty two in uh in a high school basketball
14:19
Speaker 1: game one time and one county and track and you're like,
14:22
Speaker 1: you do some investigation and you realize they weren't even
14:25
Speaker 1: on the track team, right, And I've realized that, like
14:27
Speaker 1: when you notice when you have a lot of these
14:29
Speaker 1: people in your life, like there usually it's time to
14:33
Speaker 1: get introspective because there's something wrong with the way that
14:35
Speaker 1: you're living. If you have people like this, yeah, orbiting
14:39
Speaker 1: you a lot. Those people wear me out, they really do.
14:43
Speaker 1: I've done a pretty good job with shaking you know,
14:45
Speaker 1: everybody like that off. I don't. I can't think of
14:47
Speaker 1: anybody in my life like even acquaintance wise, and it's
14:50
Speaker 1: like that just makes up lies about themselves, agreed. And
14:53
Speaker 1: I have known people like that. They don't stick around. No,
14:56
Speaker 1: especially once you get out of what you're like mid
14:58
Speaker 1: twenties is like that edge of what you know where
15:02
Speaker 1: you should be interacting with those people still well. And
15:05
Speaker 1: I think that's sort of a an immaturity thing to
15:08
Speaker 1: like if you're still doing that when you as you
15:10
Speaker 1: grow older, then you've got some serious problems. But everyone
15:13
Speaker 1: when they're younger probably stretches the truth about things they've done. Sure,
15:16
Speaker 1: but even still don't you remember, like it's just kind
15:19
Speaker 1: of being uncomfortable when somebody was doing this, and everyone
15:22
Speaker 1: in this group that they're talking to is like, we
15:25
Speaker 1: know you're lying, Like this is just please stop. This
15:28
Speaker 1: is you might as well be putting bamboo shoots under
15:30
Speaker 1: a fingernail number five to manipulate. And this is probably
15:34
Speaker 1: something like I said, the rich people are more prone
15:37
Speaker 1: to lie. Um, this is an evasive or defensive it's
15:41
Speaker 1: to gain something for yourself. It's pretty pretty it's the
15:45
Speaker 1: most vicious type of lying, probably because it also can
15:49
Speaker 1: involve telling lies about other people right to get ahead.
15:52
Speaker 1: That's all destroy someone else's reputation. Man, those people, there's
15:57
Speaker 1: a special place in Dante circle for you. Agreed. Now,
16:01
Speaker 1: those people you start to run into more of, especially
16:04
Speaker 1: as you inter the corporate world. And you know what,
16:06
Speaker 1: they may be the same people who were telling the
16:08
Speaker 1: other lives when they were younger. You know what I'm saying,
16:12
Speaker 1: They just evolved into to be manipulators. And the last one, Josh,
16:16
Speaker 1: is to control information. Um. And this is what we
16:20
Speaker 1: mentioned about indirect lying or like withholding parts of the
16:24
Speaker 1: truth a liable mission. Yeah, which I'm more able to
16:28
Speaker 1: forgive something like that. Um. So that's as you called it,
16:33
Speaker 1: the Big six. Huh, the Big six, um, Chuck. Kind
16:38
Speaker 1: Of one of the running themes that we've had here
16:39
Speaker 1: is that everybody lies. I don't think that we've Yeah,
16:42
Speaker 1: you said it, explicitly. Every the Dalai Lama doesn't lie.
16:48
Speaker 1: I don't know. I could see him wanting to preserve
16:50
Speaker 1: harmony or balance or something like that at a diplomatic
16:53
Speaker 1: dinner or something, or with one of his followers feelings
16:57
Speaker 1: about like, yes, that is a really nice sand mandala.
17:01
Speaker 1: Sure you know. Yeah, he's sent putting a lot of
17:03
Speaker 1: high pressure social situations. So at the very least everyone
17:08
Speaker 1: has little white lies, I imagine, like right, Um, but
17:13
Speaker 1: there are some types of personalities that are much more
17:16
Speaker 1: prone to lying, um the big five. Yes, like pathological liars. Yes,
17:23
Speaker 1: they are the worst of the worst because they are
17:27
Speaker 1: sociopathic and they don't understand right and wrong. Um, and
17:33
Speaker 1: they have they're probably really good liars because they don't
17:36
Speaker 1: understand right or wrong, because they're not gonna have the
17:39
Speaker 1: stresses associated with guilt in line bad people. Yeah, their
17:44
Speaker 1: consciences don't put them through their paces when they're lying,
17:46
Speaker 1: because they lack in whole or in part consciences compared
17:51
Speaker 1: to non sociopathic people. Right. Uh. Number two. I've known
17:56
Speaker 1: one of these people, a compulsive liar, and I really
17:59
Speaker 1: felt bad for him because they almost seem like they
18:02
Speaker 1: can't help it. Yeah, and you would think a pathological
18:05
Speaker 1: liar and a compulsive liar one and the same. Not
18:08
Speaker 1: no compulsive liar UM. Pathological liar lies um as a strategy.
18:15
Speaker 1: It's a means of gaining advantage. UM. A compulsive liar
18:22
Speaker 1: like can't help it, like they have their brain has
18:25
Speaker 1: been trained to lie as a first resort, even if
18:28
Speaker 1: they're not, if there's no gain whatsoever in line, they
18:33
Speaker 1: they will still just generally lie. It's the first thing.
18:36
Speaker 1: It's their gut reaction. It's Uh, this guy knew. It
18:38
Speaker 1: was really clear that he lied as a first option,
18:42
Speaker 1: as his go to when he didn't need to. And
18:45
Speaker 1: it was so frustrating. And I had a sort of
18:48
Speaker 1: a big brotherly relationship to this guy, so it wasn't
18:51
Speaker 1: he wasn't a peer, so I tried to help him
18:54
Speaker 1: through that. But UM, I haven't talked to him a
18:57
Speaker 1: long time. I don't know if it worked. So you
18:59
Speaker 1: abandoned him faith that them um and one of the
19:03
Speaker 1: and this of course makes sense in his case too,
19:06
Speaker 1: without getting specific, but said that living in an abusive environment,
19:10
Speaker 1: relying as necessary to self preservation might be where that
19:14
Speaker 1: stems from. And I think that was the case for him. Yeah,
19:16
Speaker 1: it's like the brain has been trained to um lie,
19:20
Speaker 1: like this is what you do. It's But the good
19:24
Speaker 1: thing is if you run across somebody in your life
19:26
Speaker 1: who cares enough about you, they can be trained out
19:29
Speaker 1: of you, I imagine, although I'm sure it's a painful
19:32
Speaker 1: process for both people. Yeah, it's probably are you're really
19:36
Speaker 1: waiting for me to say. People culty programming UM. Narcissists
19:42
Speaker 1: of course will lie. These are the people who um
19:45
Speaker 1: lie to increase stature and reputation, but they do themselves
19:49
Speaker 1: no favors. Borderline personalities. I thought this one was kind
19:53
Speaker 1: of interesting. They will go through wild mood swings and
19:57
Speaker 1: engage in really risky behavior, but then they come back
20:00
Speaker 1: down to normalcy and they're like, oh, um, I just
20:04
Speaker 1: gambled away our savings count and then they'll lie to
20:07
Speaker 1: cover those up, right. Uh. And then histrionic personalities, Uh,
20:11
Speaker 1: these are people if you have like a true histrionic
20:14
Speaker 1: personality disorder, you are attention seeking, excessively needy uh for
20:19
Speaker 1: approval and emotional um. Apparently women are more prone to
20:25
Speaker 1: be histrionic by ratio four to one. Oh is there
20:29
Speaker 1: right what they say? Or at least I have the
20:30
Speaker 1: disorder and you can, um, these are people desperate for attention,
20:35
Speaker 1: like if you leave, if you walk out the door,
20:37
Speaker 1: and to kill myself. That was a great example time used.
20:40
Speaker 1: Yeah that's a lie, you mean. I were on this
20:42
Speaker 1: air tram flight once in this UM we were waiting
20:45
Speaker 1: to take off and this caterer was backing off of
20:49
Speaker 1: the little his little sky ramp who was backing away
20:52
Speaker 1: from the other door, the catering door UM, and apparently
20:56
Speaker 1: it was still hooked a part of it or whatever.
20:58
Speaker 1: The SHEI was like, no, no, don't do and he
21:00
Speaker 1: kept going and she turned around, was like, well, we're
21:03
Speaker 1: not going anywhere for a while. And the way she
21:05
Speaker 1: said it, you could tell we were we were discussing this,
21:08
Speaker 1: like neither one of us believed her. We just knew
21:11
Speaker 1: she was wrong because just she's threw it out there like,
21:14
Speaker 1: well we're not going anywhere for a while, like and
21:16
Speaker 1: of course, like everything was fine within like fifteen minutes,
21:19
Speaker 1: but the way she sounded, it was gonna be like
21:21
Speaker 1: stuck on a tarmic for three hours. And it was weird.
21:24
Speaker 1: Were afforded this glimpse into this woman's true personality, and
21:28
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have hung out with histrionic. She was a
21:32
Speaker 1: bit histrionic and that was probably low level you could tell,
21:37
Speaker 1: all right, so stay away from her. How can you
21:41
Speaker 1: tell if someone's lying. We've talked about micro expressions, yeah,
21:45
Speaker 1: and the micro expression. Yeah, it was like three years ago.
21:50
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, it has been well. Basically, the for
21:54
Speaker 1: those people who don't know that, we have a good
21:57
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty hundred and fifty at the sisodes still
22:01
Speaker 1: not on iTunes, not um we the episode we did
22:05
Speaker 1: on micro expressions. Basically, a micro expression is an uncontrollable fleeting,
22:11
Speaker 1: like millisecond long facial expression that is linked to your
22:17
Speaker 1: true feelings. That was longer than a millisecond. I just
22:19
Speaker 1: made a quick frowny face. That was a grim was it?
22:22
Speaker 1: You look like? Megan m ram I don't know this
22:25
Speaker 1: is on Twitter girling like that. It's hilarious. Um anyway, Uh,
22:31
Speaker 1: it's it's a you can't control it. It's linked to
22:34
Speaker 1: your true feelings, and people have been shown to be
22:38
Speaker 1: able to pick up on these without even consciously knowing it.
22:42
Speaker 1: You just get what we would call a gut feeling
22:45
Speaker 1: about somebody because their smile and that sudden fleeting micro
22:50
Speaker 1: expression of like contempt back into a smile that you
22:54
Speaker 1: didn't really see, but you're caught, don't add up, and
22:59
Speaker 1: your body is like, why am I having a weird
23:01
Speaker 1: reaction to this person? So that's a micro expression, and
23:03
Speaker 1: they're they're apparently linked to lies and lying. So basically,
23:08
Speaker 1: if you have a gut feeling that somebody's lying, you
23:11
Speaker 1: might be onto something. Yes, and it might be because
23:13
Speaker 1: of a micro expression that you saw. Interesting. You know this,
23:17
Speaker 1: I know, but I still find it interesting. Okay, I'm
23:19
Speaker 1: not lying. That's your new thing? Interesting? Did you know
23:21
Speaker 1: that that I said that? Um, I've been on that
23:24
Speaker 1: for a while. Yeah, if I ramped it up lately. Interesting. Uh.
23:31
Speaker 1: These are non verbal cues, by the way, micro expressions.
23:34
Speaker 1: Another one is a forced smile. And I think we've
23:37
Speaker 1: talked about this too. That's when you smile with your
23:39
Speaker 1: mouth only. Yeah. It's so creepy, is the seeing it?
23:43
Speaker 1: You're just like, you know, what are you doing? Right?
23:45
Speaker 1: You look weird right now? Um? But seeing it described
23:49
Speaker 1: the way Tom wrote it, which is a perfect description,
23:52
Speaker 1: was creepy to me. Yes, it was. Um. Another thing
23:57
Speaker 1: you can look for is like someone's nodding yes during
23:59
Speaker 1: a denial some kind that could be a dead giveaway.
24:02
Speaker 1: It's terrible. Sometimes it's like way more outward, Like you
24:06
Speaker 1: get literally in a defensive position, right, like crossing your
24:10
Speaker 1: arms or moving away, turning away from somebody who's questioning you,
24:14
Speaker 1: and fidgeting. Finally we get to fidgeting. Like, fidgeting is
24:19
Speaker 1: significant if the person is normally calm or doesn't normally fidget.
24:23
Speaker 1: If it's a fidgety, nervous person to begin with, then
24:28
Speaker 1: that doesn't it doesn't mean that they're lying. If they're
24:32
Speaker 1: fidgety and then they get calm all of a sudden
24:36
Speaker 1: while you think that they're lying, then you're onto something there.
24:41
Speaker 1: But they're probably the weirdest person in the world, and
24:44
Speaker 1: you should force them into lies just to watch them
24:46
Speaker 1: go from fidgety to normal, because they'd be really odd
24:50
Speaker 1: to see. Um verbal Sometimes you know, you can pick
24:54
Speaker 1: up on nonverbal cues. Sometimes they are quite verbal. Um
24:58
Speaker 1: So like, ask asked me a question, asked me, why
25:02
Speaker 1: didn't I come over last night and help you with
25:04
Speaker 1: your with your lawn mowing. Uh, that's a terrible question,
25:10
Speaker 1: all right, I'll ask me why did you tell me
25:14
Speaker 1: that the sweetwater thing doesn't have a date when it
25:17
Speaker 1: clearly does. Well, I'll fake it and then I'll tell
25:21
Speaker 1: you the real answer, because that actually does ever real answer. Um,
25:26
Speaker 1: So what you're saying that you looked and saw that
25:29
Speaker 1: my band gig for Sweetwater didn't have a date on it?
25:32
Speaker 1: Is that what you're asking me? Yes, well, I mean
25:36
Speaker 1: I could tell you, uh right now exactly. There's a
25:41
Speaker 1: very good reason for that, Josh, Then why don't you liar?
25:45
Speaker 1: So those are some of the not actually verbal cues,
25:48
Speaker 1: taking too long, not using contractions, repeating the question, basically
25:52
Speaker 1: buying yourself, sometimes not using contractions. It's hilarious to me, like,
25:56
Speaker 1: I cannot believe that you want to know why and
26:00
Speaker 1: tell you why I did not tell you this, and
26:03
Speaker 1: the reason why, the real reason why, No, the reason
26:06
Speaker 1: why you're not using contractions. Well, to draw it out
26:09
Speaker 1: so your brain can the other part of you can
26:12
Speaker 1: come up with the answer. That's so hilarious. The real
26:16
Speaker 1: reason why I said that about Sweetwater is because I
26:19
Speaker 1: just found out two days ago that they have gone
26:21
Speaker 1: with another band and its officially canceled. No, yeah, that's
26:27
Speaker 1: a little bummed. Do you want me to talk to somebody? No? Now,
26:31
Speaker 1: I was told that one of the reasons why they
26:33
Speaker 1: went with another band is because we didn't have like
26:36
Speaker 1: video and things to send to show you caged up
26:41
Speaker 1: your two fifty gig computer with HD videos. Yeah, but
26:46
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff we don't want to send out,
26:48
Speaker 1: like a lot of pants lists, pencils, l cheap. Well,
26:52
Speaker 1: I think that stinks. If you're at Sweetwater Brewer right now,
26:56
Speaker 1: shame on you. Now, this wasn't them, This was in GEO.
26:59
Speaker 1: This as a fundraiser. So the fan who wrote in
27:03
Speaker 1: to ask you bomped. You bumped me really for another band.
27:09
Speaker 1: And I've looked at the other band too, like they
27:11
Speaker 1: have a website and videos and lady, stop listening right now. No,
27:17
Speaker 1: don't do that, at least for the rest of the episode.
27:19
Speaker 1: It's okay. It was humbling. Well, I'm sorry that I
27:22
Speaker 1: brought it up. That's okay. Might as well get it
27:25
Speaker 1: out there. I'm glad you did, because you probably thought
27:26
Speaker 1: I was lying to you. Where are we? We are
27:31
Speaker 1: now going to teach people how to lie? Which I
27:33
Speaker 1: thought was an interesting feature of this article. Okay, I um,
27:37
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting. I also refused to do it.
27:40
Speaker 1: I find it wholly a moral to teach people how
27:43
Speaker 1: to lie? Do you want to skip this in? No,
27:45
Speaker 1: but it's still information. I feel like we can say
27:49
Speaker 1: people who are successful at lying tend to do certain things,
27:54
Speaker 1: but teaching somebody how to lie, I think it's just
27:57
Speaker 1: utterly wrong. Well, imagine there's been more than one attorney
28:00
Speaker 1: give these instructions to their clients. Definitely on the stand,
28:03
Speaker 1: but I mean like attorneys, nobody. But we're making all
28:07
Speaker 1: kinds of friends today. It turneys in Detroit especially p you. Alright,
28:13
Speaker 1: so here's how to lie, so says Tom Chief. So
28:17
Speaker 1: this is what successful liars do. Okay, stay calm. That's
28:23
Speaker 1: what they'll probably tell you before you get on the
28:24
Speaker 1: witness stand. Will put you up, especially with the polygraph.
28:28
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, because it measures all those fluctuations and what
28:32
Speaker 1: temperature and heart rate and yeah you're yeah, you're yeah,
28:36
Speaker 1: those two things. Just keep it simple, stupid. And this one, boy,
28:41
Speaker 1: you see this one when someone's cooking up a lie
28:43
Speaker 1: and they you know they're lying when they start adding
28:45
Speaker 1: all these details because they think, well the more detailed,
28:50
Speaker 1: like who could make this up? I was thinking about
28:52
Speaker 1: this and I was like, while I was reading this,
28:54
Speaker 1: I was like going over my own behavior. Is he's
28:56
Speaker 1: using myself as a model. It's impossible not too I guess, right, Um,
29:00
Speaker 1: this this I did not get. Like I I tried
29:05
Speaker 1: to think back to like any lie or story I've
29:07
Speaker 1: ever told him, like if if like just adding details
29:11
Speaker 1: and like information that has nothing to do with anything,
29:14
Speaker 1: Like I don't get that. Yeah, well, you know it
29:17
Speaker 1: probably means you're not a very good liar. That's a
29:19
Speaker 1: good thing. I hope that's what it means. But that's
29:22
Speaker 1: like the Eddie Murphy. Uh remember his joke about you know,
29:26
Speaker 1: the ladies called the guy like the car was at
29:29
Speaker 1: the other ladies house and it was just what me,
29:32
Speaker 1: That's what he kept saying. Yeah, but I called you
29:33
Speaker 1: and you know, I called you red hand and it
29:35
Speaker 1: wouldn't me Oh yeah yeah, And that I guess that
29:38
Speaker 1: kind of goes back to it and keep it as
29:39
Speaker 1: simple as possible. Richard Pryor apparently also had a little
29:42
Speaker 1: bit where like, um, he said that he came in
29:45
Speaker 1: and found like his wife or his girlfriend in bed
29:48
Speaker 1: with another guy and she's like, who are you gonna
29:50
Speaker 1: believe me? Or your lion eyes? That's pretty good. Um
29:57
Speaker 1: remains steady Um. And this goes back to the you
30:02
Speaker 1: will be you're being studied by. Let's go ahead and
30:06
Speaker 1: use the courtroom example, like we're coaching you to go
30:08
Speaker 1: on the stand. This jury is gonna be watching you.
30:10
Speaker 1: Just remain steady. If you're all fidgety, stay fidgety. People
30:14
Speaker 1: who are good liars tend to remain steady, right, And
30:18
Speaker 1: what do you mean by that is not just like
30:20
Speaker 1: you have to keep a steady hand. That was already
30:23
Speaker 1: covered in staying calm. People who are good liars continue
30:28
Speaker 1: the behavior that they were that they if they were
30:31
Speaker 1: relaxed before there's a line of questioning started, they're relaxed
30:34
Speaker 1: during it, and they're relaxed after. If they're fidgety, then
30:38
Speaker 1: they're fidgety before, during and after. Yeah, because they say
30:41
Speaker 1: one of the telltale signs is um or the way
30:43
Speaker 1: of one way to trip up a liar, which we'll
30:45
Speaker 1: talk about is to change the subject and see if
30:48
Speaker 1: you see them relax because they think, oh man, that's over,
30:51
Speaker 1: thank god. Yeah, Tom says, um. Once the questioning is over,
30:55
Speaker 1: don't suddenly relax and a pure really all right, I
31:00
Speaker 1: can get down now off the stand, um, And then
31:04
Speaker 1: good liars generally are affable, which makes sense. They make
31:09
Speaker 1: people want to believe them because I think if you
31:13
Speaker 1: don't like somebody, it's easier to be suspicious of them. Yeah. Well,
31:17
Speaker 1: how many people have gotten away with horrible stuff because
31:20
Speaker 1: they just seem likable? What about Ted Bundy? How many people?
31:24
Speaker 1: How many more people was he able to kill? And
31:27
Speaker 1: he got caught? Remember we talked about him before he
31:30
Speaker 1: got caught because he went in like just a completely reckless,
31:32
Speaker 1: like killing rampage in his sorority house. Yeah, he killed
31:36
Speaker 1: for years before that. Yeah, but he was white and
31:39
Speaker 1: he had good haircut, so I mean he couldn't he
31:42
Speaker 1: couldn't have been any threat to anybody. I love that
31:46
Speaker 1: serial killer stuff. I could do like every other show
31:49
Speaker 1: on some aspect of that, We'll do another serial killer one. Okay, Okay,
31:53
Speaker 1: so Chuck, I will. I don't find it a moral
31:58
Speaker 1: to teach people to tell when someone at lyne so
32:01
Speaker 1: that we can do five steps the Big five Big
32:05
Speaker 1: Part two, Part two. Um, and we kind of already
32:07
Speaker 1: talked about establishing the baseline, Like if you think someone
32:12
Speaker 1: might be lying in your quizzing, hum, look at their
32:14
Speaker 1: behavior very closely and determine how they just normally act
32:20
Speaker 1: and just go ahead and log that in your brain.
32:22
Speaker 1: Let's step one, right, And I mean this is like
32:24
Speaker 1: I guess if this is if you're a professional interrogator
32:28
Speaker 1: like the lady in that terrible show, um or on
32:31
Speaker 1: Law and Order, the Great Shows, um Or, if you're
32:35
Speaker 1: on a jury, this is good advice. If you sit
32:36
Speaker 1: on a jury to watch these people, that's a good
32:38
Speaker 1: one too, for sure. Um Or if you are um something, uh,
32:44
Speaker 1: if you are really help bent on finding out if
32:47
Speaker 1: somebody that you interact with is lying to you, and
32:50
Speaker 1: you do a lot of pre planning, you could do
32:52
Speaker 1: this too. But yes, before you let on that there's
32:55
Speaker 1: a line of questioning that's going to be coming up.
32:57
Speaker 1: You want to interact with the person in um may
33:00
Speaker 1: notes about their behavior. Are they a fidgety Joe, not
33:03
Speaker 1: literally in front of them making notes? Or if you
33:07
Speaker 1: do do that, just don't lend them see what you're right? Alright?
33:10
Speaker 1: So number two is once you've established this, to look
33:13
Speaker 1: for deviations from that pretty much a no brainer, Like
33:17
Speaker 1: did they start fidgeting all that stuff? Yeah? Or if
33:19
Speaker 1: they're fidgety Joe, do they turn into a smooth Samuel
33:24
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, that's weird that that did would
33:26
Speaker 1: just be so weird it would be it's weird. Or
33:29
Speaker 1: if they're smooth Samuel and they're trying into a fidgety joe,
33:32
Speaker 1: there you go. That's a that's a deviation from the baseline.
33:35
Speaker 1: That's right. Uh. Step three, you really gotta listen, um so,
33:40
Speaker 1: I might be pretty steely with their nonverbal cues. So
33:43
Speaker 1: just listen to what they're saying and is it adding up.
33:46
Speaker 1: If they're spouting off all kinds of details, maybe lead
33:51
Speaker 1: them down a different path and then jump back to
33:54
Speaker 1: those details and see if they're still on those. And
33:56
Speaker 1: then you pick out a detail it seems a little
33:59
Speaker 1: hinky to you, as you would say, and started asking
34:02
Speaker 1: them questions about that, because then they may have to
34:06
Speaker 1: lie about the lie, right, And if none of it's fitting,
34:10
Speaker 1: are they having to make up more information to explain
34:12
Speaker 1: why certain things aren't fitting into this um? And eventually,
34:17
Speaker 1: if you draw the line of questioning out enough, you're
34:20
Speaker 1: going to drive the person totally insane because their brains
34:24
Speaker 1: are going over time. Yeah, the tell tale heard, I think,
34:26
Speaker 1: and that would happen in that they actually they didn't
34:30
Speaker 1: even know what was going on those guys. Oh yeah,
34:32
Speaker 1: that's right. They were sort of innocently questioning and it
34:35
Speaker 1: was all in his head. Either that or it was
34:37
Speaker 1: really a phantom heart, right, that's the I guess you
34:40
Speaker 1: just shouldn't murder. Yeah, boy, that John Cusack movie about
34:44
Speaker 1: Poe looks like one of the worst pieces of garbage
34:47
Speaker 1: for me, it really does. Whose idea was that, let's
34:51
Speaker 1: make a movie about Edgar Allan Poe as a as
34:53
Speaker 1: a murderous hunter And I'm thinking John Cusack? Yeah, really,
35:00
Speaker 1: although I have to say a Lincoln vampire hunter looks awesome. Yeah,
35:04
Speaker 1: I totally want to see that. Man, I can't see that.
35:07
Speaker 1: That was no, but I'm sorry. I saw the the
35:11
Speaker 1: preview for the po one and for the um Abraham
35:14
Speaker 1: Lincoln one, like right next to each other. So I
35:17
Speaker 1: linked the two and they look similar and mood her tone,
35:22
Speaker 1: um oh, hold on with them with everything adding up
35:26
Speaker 1: and drawing it out. One of the other things we
35:28
Speaker 1: talked about the body language, where um, a body language
35:32
Speaker 1: might be lie what they're really thinking or what they
35:35
Speaker 1: really believe. Where if you're if you're denying something but
35:38
Speaker 1: you're nodding your head, and she talked about um a
35:42
Speaker 1: rod or somebody like that who was involved in steroids,
35:46
Speaker 1: and he was on like sixty minutes and someone broke
35:49
Speaker 1: down their micro expressions yeah and found clearly that he
35:52
Speaker 1: was like he was nodding his head when he said
35:54
Speaker 1: yes or something like that at one point, So, um
35:58
Speaker 1: are so dumb? Yeah? And why you why you're doing that? Normally,
36:00
Speaker 1: our body language matches up to our thoughts because they're
36:03
Speaker 1: accurate and true and instinctual, right, and when they're when
36:07
Speaker 1: we're lying, not only do we have to think about
36:09
Speaker 1: the words we're saying and fabricate this alternate reality that
36:14
Speaker 1: doesn't really exist except in our heads, we also have
36:17
Speaker 1: to come up with the body language that's supposed to
36:19
Speaker 1: match us being calm, us being truthful, whatever. And so
36:24
Speaker 1: all of this thinky thinky can be confusing to um
36:28
Speaker 1: a liar. And if if you stretch it out over
36:31
Speaker 1: the course of enough time a line of questioning, they're
36:35
Speaker 1: probably going to be like, why are you interrogating me?
36:38
Speaker 1: Or whatever? And you've broken them And at that point
36:41
Speaker 1: you just drive the hammer home and literally beat them
36:45
Speaker 1: to death with the hammer. That's the inevitable conclusion of
36:48
Speaker 1: any line of questioning. Right now. What you could do, though,
36:51
Speaker 1: is pause, because a pause and the conversation might make
36:56
Speaker 1: just a regular conversation feel uncomfortable. You talk about the
36:59
Speaker 1: awkward pause, but man, if someone's cooking up a lie
37:02
Speaker 1: and you're asking them questions and you pause, and this
37:05
Speaker 1: is a big time tactic by an attorney with someone
37:08
Speaker 1: on the stand, that will seem like an eternity to
37:11
Speaker 1: those people. Yeah, they may get fidgety or whatever. They'll
37:14
Speaker 1: turn into like Miranda July on that video tape and you,
37:17
Speaker 1: me and everyone we know where she's like, I can
37:19
Speaker 1: do anything right now? Is that? Did you see that?
37:24
Speaker 1: I did? I enjoyed that you know what I'm talking
37:26
Speaker 1: about and know exactly what you're talking about. So if
37:27
Speaker 1: somebody does that in the middle of a pause during
37:31
Speaker 1: a line of questioning, yeah, they're lying, uh and finally,
37:35
Speaker 1: or they're adorable and artsy right and or into mumble
37:39
Speaker 1: core um. And then we talked about the last one.
37:42
Speaker 1: Step five has changed the subject. And see if you
37:44
Speaker 1: see them visibly relax and then go ah ha yeah,
37:50
Speaker 1: where they're like yeah and they're like, oh wait, no,
37:53
Speaker 1: I wasn't relaxing, right, I'm on meth. Yeah, that's a
37:58
Speaker 1: good way to catch somebody off guard. Or you could
38:01
Speaker 1: do the Colombo method, let him off the hook, let
38:05
Speaker 1: them calm down, and then turn around be like one
38:08
Speaker 1: more question. How was that what he would do? Oh yeah,
38:10
Speaker 1: every time that thought we would catch somebody and that
38:12
Speaker 1: would be like that, like they didn't have an answer
38:15
Speaker 1: for that, and it totally caught him off guard and
38:17
Speaker 1: then he beat him to death of the hammer at
38:18
Speaker 1: the end of every episode. Robert Blake, Right, I'm the
38:23
Speaker 1: Colombo Peter Fault, Peter Falk. I always get those guys confused.
38:26
Speaker 1: Robert Blake really did go to jail for murder. Yeah,
38:29
Speaker 1: that's because he really killed his wife. He was Burretta.
38:33
Speaker 1: That's right. I always getting confused, But not with the
38:36
Speaker 1: Rockford Files. Oh no, that's a Jim. Yeah, it's great. Um,
38:42
Speaker 1: all right, so I didn't look at any of the
38:44
Speaker 1: famous lives in history. They weren't. They were pretty much
38:48
Speaker 1: whatever standard. So we talked about the Kids study. UM.
38:54
Speaker 1: I found an interesting link from the University of Southern California, huh,
39:00
Speaker 1: where they found what they believe is proof that, uh,
39:04
Speaker 1: the brain structure of a pathological liar is different. They're
39:10
Speaker 1: actually wired differently than the rest of us. Oh yeah,
39:13
Speaker 1: I could totally see that because the brain is subject
39:15
Speaker 1: to plasticity and so structurally it's different. Right, Well, that's
39:20
Speaker 1: what they say. They took subjects a D eight volunteers
39:23
Speaker 1: and then interviewed them with psychological tests and placed them
39:26
Speaker 1: in different categories of like are you a repeated liar?
39:30
Speaker 1: Are you anti social and pathological liar? Or are you normal?
39:35
Speaker 1: I guess a normal liar? And then they hooked him
39:38
Speaker 1: up to the old m R I the Wonder machine,
39:41
Speaker 1: and they found that liars had significantly more white matter
39:44
Speaker 1: and less gray matter, which they believe equates to um.
39:50
Speaker 1: Liars are quicker thinkers. Basically white matters the stuff that
39:56
Speaker 1: transmits the electrical impulse. They're more equipped to lie physically,
40:00
Speaker 1: their brains, their feet. I'm I'm like one big continuous
40:05
Speaker 1: lump of gray matter. Yeah, I don't think I have
40:08
Speaker 1: any white matter whatsoever. There's like a little there's a
40:11
Speaker 1: donkey on like a ferry that goes across the mighty
40:14
Speaker 1: mississipp that's my that's my neural transmission with Huck Finn. Yeah. Um,
40:20
Speaker 1: but huck fan is like really fat and kind of dumb.
40:26
Speaker 1: There they go, right now I can chuck yeah. Uh.
40:31
Speaker 1: And then this other thing we've touched on, the thinking cap,
40:35
Speaker 1: transcranial magnetic stimulation. Yeah, and what was that again, TMS, Oh,
40:41
Speaker 1: it's the it was the thinking cap. We did an
40:43
Speaker 1: episode on this too, where there's a I guess that
40:47
Speaker 1: uses magnets magnetic pulses that can target very specific parts
40:52
Speaker 1: of the brain without fighting others. Laying a magnet that
40:55
Speaker 1: can pulse right over a specific part of your brain
40:58
Speaker 1: and going woom woomp, and then high frequency stuff makes
41:01
Speaker 1: you like you twitch and stuff like that. Low frequency
41:04
Speaker 1: can give you a stutter depending on the region of
41:07
Speaker 1: the brain. It's basically just messing with your brain and
41:10
Speaker 1: the neural firing. And it can make you more creative too.
41:13
Speaker 1: Wasn't that one of them? Yeah, that's what they found
41:15
Speaker 1: more creative and um people could pick out like prime
41:18
Speaker 1: numbers out of a huge block of numbers. Whether they
41:22
Speaker 1: couldn't do that right before, they could draw horse really
41:24
Speaker 1: well all of a sudden, so apparently if UM these
41:27
Speaker 1: volunteers were hooked up to the TMS Thinking Cap machine,
41:32
Speaker 1: let's call it, and volunteered to have their dor dorsalateral
41:37
Speaker 1: prefonal cortex stimulated, which is UM complex thought and deception
41:42
Speaker 1: decision making. And they found and it has two sides
41:46
Speaker 1: like every other part of the brain. And they found
41:49
Speaker 1: that people who had the left side stimulated lit more often. Uh,
41:54
Speaker 1: and people on the right side were more likely to
41:57
Speaker 1: tell the truth. And they asked him like obvious question.
42:00
Speaker 1: It's like what color is this piece of paper? Lie
42:02
Speaker 1: to me or don't lie to me? And basically it's
42:06
Speaker 1: early in the going here. I think this is from
42:08
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, but they think this could lead to
42:11
Speaker 1: possibly one day instead of people taking a lie detector tests,
42:16
Speaker 1: taking a lie prevention test, like hooking them up and basically,
42:19
Speaker 1: you cannot lie to me while you're getting pulse like this.
42:23
Speaker 1: That is crazy. So did you kill your wife? That
42:26
Speaker 1: is very crazy? Did I? No? I wasn't asking me
42:32
Speaker 1: although I haven't seen you mean awhile, okay, sorry this morning,
42:37
Speaker 1: I'll have her send you an email. Sure. Well, actually,
42:41
Speaker 1: it's funny you brought that up because UM this last
42:43
Speaker 1: little study UM found the email people are only likely
42:49
Speaker 1: to lie in email four pent of the time, compared
42:52
Speaker 1: to thirty seven percent on the phone seven percent in
42:56
Speaker 1: person via text. And I found that interesting. I find
43:02
Speaker 1: it interesting to The phone makes sense because it's verbal communication,
43:07
Speaker 1: so you're more frightened. There's more intimidation, which I think
43:12
Speaker 1: probably is one of the things that leads to lying
43:14
Speaker 1: among people more frequently than anything else, being intimidated face
43:19
Speaker 1: to face, which probably helps exactly. So the phone is
43:22
Speaker 1: the most um lie laden form of communication, but email
43:29
Speaker 1: is the least lie laden, and I think it's because
43:32
Speaker 1: you don't have to vocally express it. Plus the internet
43:35
Speaker 1: makes us all very brassy. Uh well, plus email to
43:40
Speaker 1: also there's like documented evidence the paper trail or an
43:45
Speaker 1: electric paper trail. Yeah, that's a good point too, Like
43:49
Speaker 1: I wouldn't line in an email because when somebody could
43:51
Speaker 1: take that email later on and bust me on it,
43:53
Speaker 1: that's true. I would only do that fourteen percent in
43:56
Speaker 1: the time, evidently, right. Well, I record all of you
44:00
Speaker 1: was in my conversation, so I've got it all documented,
44:05
Speaker 1: all of it. Oh bad, I guess that's it. That's
44:11
Speaker 1: all I got. That was a lot. That was a
44:13
Speaker 1: lot online. We we covered the philosophical aspects you mentioned
44:17
Speaker 1: the brain, We pood pood psychology. Um. We talked about
44:21
Speaker 1: the Big five, the Big six, the other Big five.
44:24
Speaker 1: We covered everything in him. Yeah, and let us finish
44:27
Speaker 1: by saying, two kids out there. Although it may seem
44:30
Speaker 1: like a good idea at the time, it is not
44:33
Speaker 1: a good idea in the long run in your life.
44:35
Speaker 1: May just make things worse. In fact, it will very
44:38
Speaker 1: much likely make things much worse on you agreed to
44:41
Speaker 1: tell the truth. Agreed. It's a good habit to get
44:43
Speaker 1: into as you grow. Oh yeah, those are the people
44:45
Speaker 1: who really kind of become the best agreed later on.
44:49
Speaker 1: Not necessarily the richest, although that's not the Richard Brandson
44:54
Speaker 1: never told a lie in his life, probably, but there
44:56
Speaker 1: are richest beyond the dollar exactly. That's what I'm driving
45:00
Speaker 1: and being honest as one and the true trust of
45:02
Speaker 1: another person doesn't much wealthier than that. Agreed Uh a
45:07
Speaker 1: few while learn more about lying. You can look it
45:11
Speaker 1: up by typing L Y, I, n G in the
45:14
Speaker 1: search bar at how stuff works dot com. I said,
45:16
Speaker 1: search bar in there no lie. This means it's time
45:20
Speaker 1: for a listener mail. Whoa, Nelly, whoa. We got a
45:26
Speaker 1: couple of quick announcements to make a listener mail. The
45:29
Speaker 1: first is we have if you've listened to our Halloween episodes.
45:32
Speaker 1: The past two years we do readings that are royalty
45:36
Speaker 1: free because they're old, right and they're good from po
45:39
Speaker 1: and Lovecraft and the like. This year, we want to
45:42
Speaker 1: read one of your horror stories absolutely true, um, and
45:46
Speaker 1: we're going to do that through this long, complicated process
45:50
Speaker 1: by which starting uh this well a little while ago
45:53
Speaker 1: June eighth and running until July. You can submit your own,
45:58
Speaker 1: um horror fiction not been published any anywhere else and
46:03
Speaker 1: that is between three thousand and four thousand words. That's right.
46:06
Speaker 1: You can send it in an email to how Stuff
46:09
Speaker 1: Works Underscore Contests at Discovery dot com. Right, yeah, and
46:14
Speaker 1: do yourself a favor. Uh go read the rules because
46:17
Speaker 1: you don't want to take the time to do this
46:19
Speaker 1: and then be disqualified. No, there's a blog post on
46:22
Speaker 1: the blogs that how Stuff Works and it's titled something
46:24
Speaker 1: like stuff you should know his horror Fiction contest colon
46:28
Speaker 1: get your official rules here something like that, and it's
46:31
Speaker 1: got all the rules that has like a pithy introduction
46:33
Speaker 1: to the rules that we came up with and then UM.
46:37
Speaker 1: So the key here though is no matter what, um,
46:41
Speaker 1: you have to in the email write the words by
46:45
Speaker 1: entering into the contest. I agree to abide by the
46:49
Speaker 1: contest rules. Any email that that has a submission that
46:53
Speaker 1: doesn't have those words in it is automatically disqualified. Yeah,
46:55
Speaker 1: and we don't want that because if you worked on this,
46:58
Speaker 1: you know we want you to be able to win. Yeah. Um,
47:00
Speaker 1: it's only open to residents of the US eighteen or
47:03
Speaker 1: older eighteen as of June eighteen. That's right. But anyway
47:06
Speaker 1: you send him to us, we're gonna read all of them,
47:07
Speaker 1: we're gonna judge them. Uh, and then that we're gonna
47:10
Speaker 1: pick the top sixteen, enterim into a bracket, and it's
47:13
Speaker 1: gonna be like the thunder Dome until everybody votes on
47:16
Speaker 1: their favorite, and that favorite one is the one we'll
47:18
Speaker 1: read for our Halloween episode. Pretty cool, great idea, Josh's idea.
47:21
Speaker 1: I think he's already regretting having thought of it because
47:25
Speaker 1: about complicated contests, are they really really are? Yeh? But
47:29
Speaker 1: I don't regret it. No, I'm I'm very anxious and
47:32
Speaker 1: um so comic Con to what. Yeah, we're gonna be
47:36
Speaker 1: at Comic Con in San Diego. You're going to Comic Con.
47:39
Speaker 1: You are two? Pal? Oh, that's right, I know. I
47:41
Speaker 1: booked my ticket. Oh you booked your own. I had
47:44
Speaker 1: people book mind for me. Well well, um so, uh
47:48
Speaker 1: let's see, we're gonna be a comic Con on Thursday,
47:50
Speaker 1: July twelve, and we're going to do a live podcast
47:54
Speaker 1: at a panel right yeah, right there at the convention center. Uh,
47:57
Speaker 1: we do not know what time exactly it. Uh, well,
48:01
Speaker 1: we'll announce that on Facebook and the like in Twitter.
48:03
Speaker 1: And they're supposed to be possibly a special guests. Maybe
48:06
Speaker 1: there's gonna be Trappiezes, Monkeys, circus, peanuts, the whole thing. Yeah,
48:11
Speaker 1: and we can't announce the guests yet because we haven't
48:13
Speaker 1: locked it down, but hopefully they are in the fringe
48:16
Speaker 1: of society. Alright, So comic con horror fiction contests. It's
48:22
Speaker 1: time now for listen to mail. Uh Josh, I'm gonna
48:25
Speaker 1: call this ss k uh teaching America's utes. Okay, Um,
48:30
Speaker 1: hi guys and Jerry, I've written before you even mentioned
48:35
Speaker 1: my podcast our list on your show once. Remember we
48:38
Speaker 1: were the doppelgangers because we sent you T shirts that
48:41
Speaker 1: you originally thought were you sure? And it was us?
48:43
Speaker 1: I remember those guys. Anyway, I wanted to write and
48:45
Speaker 1: thank you besides being a podcaster. I'm a teacher. My
48:48
Speaker 1: fourth graders were going to be dissecting earthworms, and help
48:52
Speaker 1: prepare them for their first ever dissection, I gave them
48:55
Speaker 1: a homework assignment of listening to the earthworm podcast. Great idea. Um.
49:01
Speaker 1: Many had never listened to a podcast before, and I
49:04
Speaker 1: was wondering how they would react. And the overall response
49:07
Speaker 1: was great, except for the three that ended up with seizures.
49:10
Speaker 1: For some weird reason. They found it funny that you
49:13
Speaker 1: discussed species pronunciation, which turns out I was wrong. Remember
49:18
Speaker 1: I said I can't say species. Apparently you can see either.
49:22
Speaker 1: Uh No, I said species. You said it's species or
49:25
Speaker 1: species or species or species and I said, no, it's
49:29
Speaker 1: just species. So you were wrong in that. I just
49:33
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure. I don't really remember it,
49:35
Speaker 1: but that's how it, right though. Uh. They found the
49:40
Speaker 1: facts that you shared amazing. I gave them a questionnaire
49:44
Speaker 1: to fill out in Mr Zach because spelled the word
49:46
Speaker 1: question zach. As they listened in, almost everyone completed their homework,
49:50
Speaker 1: which is no small feed. So thank you for giving
49:53
Speaker 1: me another way to reinforce my lessons. You may have
49:55
Speaker 1: some new fans in exchange, and that is Mr Zach
49:58
Speaker 1: at Ease Cooper monest Story Charter in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina.
50:03
Speaker 1: Go Coops at Amount Coops Go barrel Makers. Yes, then
50:08
Speaker 1: that what Cooper's do? Oh was that a Cooper? Sure?
50:12
Speaker 1: I think so, man, I hope it is good. I
50:14
Speaker 1: hope it is. Um, thanks Zach. It's good to hear
50:18
Speaker 1: from you guys again. Uh and uh, where can they
50:21
Speaker 1: find their podcast? Chuck, It's called our list on iTunes?
50:25
Speaker 1: Probably Yeah? Sure, okay, um, usual old Google cool? Uh.
50:30
Speaker 1: If we have helped shape children's lives, man, we are
50:34
Speaker 1: crazy for that. We always love hearing about that kind
50:37
Speaker 1: of stuff. Um, so we want to hear it. Send
50:40
Speaker 1: it to us. You can tweet to us at s
50:42
Speaker 1: y s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook
50:46
Speaker 1: at stuff you Should Know, Facebook dot com slash stuff
50:48
Speaker 1: you Should Know um, and you can send us an
50:50
Speaker 1: email at stuff podcast at Discovery dot com. For more
51:00
Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, visit how Stuff
51:03
Speaker 1: Works dot com. M