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From Exploration to Ocean Solutions: How OceanX is Changing the Narrative on Ocean Conservation · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  Many of the aspiring marine biologists, or even early-career marine
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  biologists, or even late-career marine biologists, or mid-career marine biologists
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  like myself, the
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  ocean. fact
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  a lot of us when we were growing up got inspired by the Jacques
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  Cousteau's and the David Attenborough's and the Shark Week's
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  and the National Geographic's and all the different documentary type
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  shows where we actually saw and got inspired like
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  you know what that's what I want to do when I grow up. But
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  we're gonna hear from OceanX and talking about how inspiration
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  can lead towards solution to the ocean. And
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  OceanX, if you don't know, is an organization, a nonprofit organization
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  that explores the ocean and brings that exploration to you
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  right in your living room or right in your bed or wherever you're watching on
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  your phone or on your iPad, wherever you can see National Geographic
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  or a program on BBC like Blue Planet, This is
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  OceanX bringing you the stuff that they see each and every
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  day. And I have Vincent Parabon who is the Co-CEO
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  and Chief Science Officer on OceanX to
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  be able to talk to you about what the message that
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  OceanX wants to do in the future. They've been really Looking forward
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  to bringing you, you know, the best the very best of Media
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  that they can provide on Ocean X some of my good friends. Dr
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  Nathan Robinson and Melissa Marquez have been on the
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  shows on Ocean X and been able to show what that boat
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  can do Also what they can do from the boat and be able
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  to get all that information to you not only for science But
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  and for governments but to you so we're gonna talk about a little behind the scenes of
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  Ocean X how it got started and and where it's going in
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  terms of bringing you not only the wonderful things about the ocean, but
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  the solutions so that we can protect the ocean. And it's not all doom and
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  gloom. There's a lot of optimism to look forward to in the future.
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  So let's start the show. Hey
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  everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm
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  your host Andrew Lewin, and this is a podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how
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  you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean
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  by taking action. And on today's episode, it's a special
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  one. It's a special one for me because I am honored to have Vincent
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  Parabon on this program to talk about OceanX.
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  Now, he is the co-CEO and the chief science officer.
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  He's got the origin story of OceanX. He's got the
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  passion about not only what OceanX brings, but what
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  OceanX wants to bring in the future. So not only the media that
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  they've built for this beautiful vessel that goes around the world
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  and takes samples and does observations and does beautiful
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  science so that they can help governments from all over
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  the world Tackle what they need to tackle right for
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  their governmental things essentially they have they need science
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  or they need to collect data You know ocean X is there. That's what
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  the vessels there do. That's what the organization is there to do That's what the
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  people in the boat are there to do and they do amazing work plus
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  they have a whole media side of it where they bring people where they
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  bring the information to you or right to your tablet, your
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  phone, your TV, in your living room, in your home, on
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  the bus, on the train, wherever you're watching it from, you
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  can get all this information on National Geographic, BBC, their
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  YouTube channel, it's just everywhere, and it's great
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  to be able to be inspired by that, because we've all been inspired
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  by something that, like what OceanX is doing in the
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  past, right? Before there was OceanX, there was Jacques Cousteau, there
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  was David Attenborough, There was for Canada, David Suzuki.
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  There are a lot of different people bringing, and of course, Dr. Silver, bringing
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  the information that we see in the ocean, the beauty of the ocean to us
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  in our homes. And I think that's what the benefit of
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  media is. And when you have an independent organization, it's
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  not part of any government, just like you do with OceanX, they can
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  do a lot more and they can speak up a lot more. And they do, and
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  it's really great. But they're not only just speaking up and waving the finger
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  at governments or anything like that. What they're looking for is they're working to
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  partner with people, with organizations, with governments to
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  find solutions so that they can talk about
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  solutions to you. They can bring the solutions to you and say, hey, you know what? There's
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  hope for the ocean. It's not all doom and gloom. We're going to be able to get through a lot
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  of this stuff, but we've got to start looking at building businesses, for-profit,
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  non-profit. We've got to look at there's opportunity to make money in
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  this so that people can actually profit off of saving the ocean,
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  off of saving the planet. And these are big, big ideas
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  and small ideas that will benefit the ocean, that will
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  benefit this planet, that will benefit you and I. And
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  I think that's what I love about the message that OceanX is
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  going to bring in the future, and I'm looking forward to
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  it. It's going to be a lot of fun, bringing you a little bit of behind the
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  scenes and sort of the strategy that OceanX is
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  doing through Vincent Parabon. I appreciate him giving his
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  time to be able to talk to me. He came to us from Cape Verde. That's
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  awesome. I think it's amazing. I'm looking forward to this interview. I
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  hope you are too. So here's the interview with Vincent Perrone, co-CEO and
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  Chief Science Officer of OceanX. Enjoy, and I will talk to you after.
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  Hey, Vincent. Welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you
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  ready to talk about OceanX? I am, Andrew. I
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  am super excited for this because OceanX has been
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  on like my top like five lists of people I
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  wanted to interview and and organizations I want to get to know more of
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  so I really appreciate you reaching out to be on
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  the podcast, this is a true honor for me. We're
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  gonna get into OceanX, just sort of like the origin story, the
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  purpose of OceanX, what you guys do, some of the cool
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  projects that you've done in the past, and maybe some that you can tease for
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  the future. We're gonna get into all of that, but first, Vincent,
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  I will. First of all, I just would like to say it's great to be here. I
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  think what you do is terrific. Protecting the ocean is OceanX. So
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  that's a good segue into the concept of OceanX. So
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  OceanX, the quick origin story is
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  that Ray Dalio and Mark Dalio, Ray being
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  the father, Mark being the son, you
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  know, began diving together when they were, when Ray was a bit
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  older in life. And Ray was sort of inspired when he was young by Cousteau, but
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  didn't think, I think, much about the ocean until later in life when he started diving
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  with his sons. And, you know, he became aware that
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  the ocean, first of all, it's magnificent, but that
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  the world was not appreciating it as much and that there was a lot of troubles
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  in the ocean, that there's a lot of problems with the ocean. And I
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  think Ray just had one of those moments that Ray has where he decided let's
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  try something here. Let's see if something happens and
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  this ship a Lucia the original vessel that we had came on the market
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  and Ray being a very spontaneous guy just said let's buy it and he's
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  not a yacht guy. Right. So he's got small boats,
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  but he's not like, I'll buy a yacht. So this thing came online and it was a research vessel,
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  you know, he's like, okay, it's available. So without much thought, he bought
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  it. I think, I don't want to say that, but he didn't, he bought it. He said, let's see
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  if this works. And then he, he got together with a lot of
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  interesting people at Woods Hole and learned about it.
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  And his model was basically, I'm going to take this out and we're going
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  to use it. And we're going to invite scientists to come on board. And
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  so I met him very early on
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  at the beginning of this because he did a few expeditions. And then I
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  was at the time a scientist, a neuroscientist, and
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  we were very interested in these glowing proteins that we use in
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  the ocean. And so I had done some expeditions looking for these things.
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  And we had this really good exhibition at the Museum of Natural History, and in
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  it we had all this beautiful glowing things and bioluminescence
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  and everything like that. So I was kind of working with the Museum of Natural History. And then Ray Dalio
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  made a donation to the museum and said, here, here's
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  some money and put out a request amongst your scientists if
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  they want to come and do this kind of ocean work on
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  the ship. So I get a call from my friends. I was kind of an adjunct there
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  at the museum. And they said, you know, we've done these expeditions. You want to
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  go work with this guy? I didn't know who he was or anything. I said, sure. So we put a, put
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  a, put a application in, got the grant and, you
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  know, worked for about six, eight months building equipment, all this kind of cool stuff.
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  Went to the Solomon Islands with Ray on the boat, spent, spent
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  about two and a half weeks there doing magnificent work in
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  this beautiful place, science samples, everything. And then the last,
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  last day or two, Ray showed up on the boat, went to see what was going on.
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  Cause he kept hearing all these good things about it. So he came, and
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  I met him, and we spent an evening together, like a dinner. He
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  brought me up back on the boat. We were all staying on shore in Honieri. And
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  I came back on the boat anyways, ate dinner with him, met him, just was like
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  amazed by him as a person. You know, in all fairness, I really didn't know
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  much about him. And I thought, ah, it's just another finance guy, you know? Yeah.
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  But he has this very, very interesting way of
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  thinking. He's written a lot about it. He's got a very principled, very organized
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  thought process. And I came away thinking, this is a guy who's basically
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  a scientist. He evaluates things and it's
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  his logic. If you read the books, it's a lot about rational thought,
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  which seemed to me, I said, it sounds like you're talking like a scientist here. And I
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  think he has an affinity for the sciences, I really think, in another life. you
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  know, he would have been a great scientist as well. Anyway, so
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  he and I began like a friendship that lasted several
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  years where he would invite me out on the boat, done some expeditions and
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  some other things to see how things were going and we sort of became friends over the
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  next couple of years. And then at one point he just said, you
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  know, hey, do you want to join, you know, this organization at the time
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  is called Aleutia Productions. And I said, you
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  know, I got a job. I'm a professor, full-time neuroscience professor. What
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  do I know about the ocean? And he said, well, we've got a head on you
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  for science, so why don't you come and join? So I joined the program around
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  2017, full-time as an employee, but I met him back in 13. And
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  he said, oh, you're in charge of the whole thing. And I was like, OK, that's shocking. So
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  I was still at the classroom. We may not be testing today. Um,
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  but he said, you know, come on and let's do this thing. And then immediately he said, let's,
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  let's buy a new boat. We need a bigger boat, you know? So, so that became the
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  sort of vision. And what he said to me was, and what I learned on
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  the boat was that he, he really felt that. the
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  science of the ocean needed a visual component to
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  it. It needed a way to translate it. I
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  remember him saying, there's a lot of science papers published about
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  the world, and yet the world doesn't listen.
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  I remember thinking to myself that year there was something like 11,000 papers
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  published on climate. And why are we still, you know,
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  the science, you know, I'll say this and probably nobody want to hear it,
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  but the science around climate is pretty settled, right? We know what's going
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  on. And a lot of ocean themes, unfortunately, the science of
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  human inflicted problems is settled. Now, oceanography is
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  not settled, but what we're doing to the ocean is settled. We shouldn't, we're
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  overfishing, we're polluting plastic, but you know it, the list, right?
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  So doing more science on the impact of that is important, but
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  Solutions are the most important thing at this point and getting the word out
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  and letting people know that this is not going well and we have to change. So
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  OceanX was really built to first and foremost
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  to celebrate the ocean, to make sure that the old quote,
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  you don't protect what you don't love. You got to make them
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  love it and Cousteau made us love it. Ray, my generation, we
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  just loved the way he visualized. So
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  this was like let's do a Cousteau moment in a modern updated
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  version of Cousteau. Yeah, let's let's show
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  the world, let's get to make the world fall in love with the ocean and protection will follow.
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  And so that was it and then that the idea was doing great science and Ray
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  the first time I met with him he gave me this Venn diagram, you know,
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  and the Venn diagram was great science and great media and
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  in the middle, you know, and what was happening. was
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  we were doing great science, but it wasn't visually compelling.
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  And then the visually compelling work
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  didn't always have the best science involved. So my job was to find
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  that middle ground, find the stuff that was exciting, scientifically valid,
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  and was helping the world, was helping show stories. So for
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  the first few years of OceanX, we just really
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  built up a following. First, we created the company. We built this
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  amazing vessel, COVID, blah, blah, blah. But then we started doing
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  expeditions, and the vessel has been focused really on just exciting
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  the world. But in the background, all the science that we were
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  doing always had, and the messaging we always had was about conservation of
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  the ocean and stewardship. But of late, we've
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  begun to pivot our messaging, and this is actually quite new.
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  The pivot is to spend more of our effort now trying to
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  talk about what needs to be done in the ocean. The science we're
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  doing, because we've become such a popular organization.
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  I mean, we're sort of almost a victim of our own success that we're being asked
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  by governments like, what can we do? And how can we help? And
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  how can OceanX help us meet our goals in the ocean? So
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  we have begun to rethink a bit our mission because we
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  have built this unique position for ourselves, this
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  platform. By really showing the beauty of
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  science, the beauty of the ocean, we're in a position to
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  help make change. So our pivot
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  is around making change, around talking
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  more about the things that we need to do. So we don't want to be the
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  Debbie Downer. Right? Because the ocean, I
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  And honestly- And that you see like when you're out on the expeditions too,
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  You see it and it's evident, you know, but
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  there is a reversal. We can reverse all this, you know? So our thing
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  is like, let's just get everybody excited about it because the first step is that. And
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  then we have to have the solutions, right? So OceanX
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  has become an organization which wants to utilize its tools to
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  help governments understand what it has. Because we go to
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  a place that they don't know anything about their ocean and we want to say like, your ocean is
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  super valuable. And super valuable not just in an
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  It's not like just a place to start digging stuff out of.
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  You got oil, you got this, you got fish, right? We need to like chill
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  on that in a way. Valuable. But
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  it needs to be, you know, the word sustainability is just overused
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  and sounds like a bad word these days. You know, first we would just stop
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  everything and then we said, oh, let's do it sustainably. But sustainably has become this thing. But
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  the point really is that we're now at the stage where we
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  really need to find alternatives. We need to find alternative
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  value in the ocean, right? So they need to start thinking, everybody
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  needs to start thinking about the value of the genetic diversity in the ocean and
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  the value it provides in terms of food stability and all
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  these things that it does. And how does the modern, how's
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  the modern view of the ocean? What is the modern view? There's tourism in
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  the ocean, right? There's coastal resilience against these
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  changing hurricanes that we have. We got another one heading up
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  the Gulf right now, right? Very scary. Crashed through Florida.
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  There's another one heading there. The Gulf water is like an incubator for
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  these terrible things. So coastal resilience is all about not not
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  Exactly. The seagrass beds and the bearing of the carbon and the whole
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  thing is there in a nutshell. So we
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  really take on as our mission the enlivening of these stories and
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  the enlivening of the ocean. We have all of the creature
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  creature feature stuff we have all the cool yeah, she just can't get
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  in a submarine or go down about the ocean, something amazing dropping
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  in your lap so like the job it just does itself right so
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  we're out there doing one thing and something else happens in the series that we
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  just finished the National Geographic and BBC Jim Cameron is
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  that story of half the things that are in that
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  show or not we went out to film. Right we said we're going to see
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  these humpback whales are going to study their language and
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  we did that but on top of it these things happen and if
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  you watch the show you get a sense of what that was you know that
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  nature just pulls something out of a hat so so it's
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  an easy job to to get some people. about the ocean.
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  I say it's easy. It's easy in the sense that you have amazing people. But
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  the ocean never ceases to amaze any of us, even old people
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  like us. So OceanX is really this unique – we realize that
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  still even to this day there isn't an organization that's really dedicated to
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  almost be the PR for the ocean. And at the
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  same time, a convener of people, of partnerships, of bringing people together
• 17:07
  to understand that these solutions are out there. We
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  can solve these problems we have in the ocean. We can solve, we can have
• 17:14
  our cake and eat it. You know, it's not that we have to stop. We just have
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  to understand it better and we have to understand how to treasure it for
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  what it really is. And, you know, I just think that All
• 17:25
  these astronauts that go into space and look down on the Earth, they're just like,
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  oh. And that Captain Kirk, when he went into space, William
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  Shatner, and just said, I've been looking the wrong direction. Yeah.
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  Space is beautiful, but the ocean and the planet, it's just
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  an incubator. In some sense, it's like this little thing
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  that keeps us alive as we're moving through the deadness of
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  the space around us. And the excitement is right here under our feet. And
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  I think this generation, I'm so excited of this younger generation. There's
• 17:55
  just a whole lot of criticism. But they're our best clients. They're
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  the ones that feel it in their heart. And
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  they're the ones that will go out in life and do things. Everything
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  they do, they'll try to bring this love of nature and
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  this discipline and what they need is a
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  kind of a respect and a thought. That has to enter their mind.
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  My generation, it didn't enter your mind to take care of world
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  planet. They have that. That's
• 18:24
  going to save the earth, honestly. I think
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  our generation gave them the tools to understand it. It's
• 18:31
  an exciting endeavor. traveling the world and doing
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  that never ceases to be anything but a thrill I pinch myself
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  I just today I was out with a contingent of people and they said you must have the greatest job
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  in the world is like I'm I'm sorry to say, but I do. I
• 18:46
  don't know what yeah, right that this land. But
• 18:50
  it is truly you know, it's truly a pleasure and honor and it's
• 18:55
  Well, I'm sure, you know, through through the things
• 18:59
  that happened in the world, you set yourself up to be there
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  for that opportunity. And that's how that's how it all came to be. So
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  I'm sure that you did something, not realizing it, but it ended
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  up being in a good way, even just being a good conversationalist, you
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  know, with Ray. I have to say that. Yeah,
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  Ray appreciated the ability to interpret science as
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  a scientist and not speak always like a scientist, but
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  rather At my stage in life, I've
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  had to explain it so much in giving lectures and speaking to
• 19:30
  people that I get a sense of where, you
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  reach a certain understanding in science, I think, where you no longer have to
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  impress anybody with what you know, but you have an understanding of
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  the top to bottom, from the molecules all the way to
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  the organization. Not to say that you understand it, but there's a
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  kind of a thread line. That you can explain in
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  a way there's a lot of the whole process, you know, and that that's
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  a beauty when you see it and if people I
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  feel that I feel a little like Salieri, you know, the guy from the Mozart movie
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  where. you're witness, as a scientist,
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  you're witness to the greatness of the world, the greatness of
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  things, but sometimes the audience doesn't get it, you
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  know? True. Like, I cannot understand why you wouldn't protect
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  the ocean. To me, it's an absolutely fantastic, amazing,
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  it is just like the most rich thing on the earth. And so, that,
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  I don't understand why the world doesn't see that the same way.
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  Now, the world's got a lot of other problems to deal with, right? So I
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  get it. But on the other hand, it's so foundational to
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  Well, I find I find also, though, like we, you know, we've
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  been brought up to understand and learn and and
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  especially as scientists to communicate the problems that
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  we're facing in the ocean and on this planet. And
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  so we have been a doom and gloom. Like I'm Generation X,
• 20:56
  almost like at that cusp of Generation X and millennia. I was 78, baby. You
• 21:02
  hear about the climate change. I've been hearing about climate change my entire
• 21:05
  life, from the 90s all the way to now. And now
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  we're really starting to see the effects. But now it's really
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  coming in. It's undeniable at this point, over
• 21:17
  the last 10 years or so. But I find, though,
• 21:21
  we've been in such a state of doom and gloom for the
• 21:24
  last 30, 40 years. of
• 21:27
  my life anyway, that a lot of times we
• 21:31
  kind of hide the solutions to the end. You know, I always
• 21:35
  say, a lot of documentaries that you see in the past, they
• 21:39
  would go through, here's the beauty of the ocean, okay, and
• 21:42
  then here's the problem as a regular storytelling thing, here's the
• 21:45
  problem, here's sort of like where we're seeing at the custom,
• 21:49
  we gotta do something, but we're not doing something, and then at the
• 21:52
  tail end, after that climax of the story, we
• 21:55
  start to hear a little bit about the solution, but there's not a lot of time spent
• 21:59
  on the solution. That's why when you're telling me that
• 22:03
  OceanX is pivoting the messaging to be like, look, we're not
• 22:06
  only going to make people fall in love with the ocean, but we're going to start talking about
• 22:09
  the solutions. This excites me because we needed
• 22:13
  this on a global level. You know,
• 22:16
  on the platforms where, you know, OceanX working with National Geographic,
• 22:20
  working with BBC, working with these types of
• 22:24
  media platforms where you get global coverage to
• 22:27
  show the beauty of not only the OceanX ship and the mission, but
• 22:31
  also what you see in that ocean to be able to talk about
• 22:34
  solutions on that basis and get people excited. You know, that's
• 22:37
  the one thing that I've been trying to do on this podcast for a long time is get the
• 22:41
  stories that you don't normally hear and talk about the successes of,
• 22:44
  you know, villages in the Philippines being able to adapt to climate by
• 22:47
  having like a savings bank for their fisheries so in case their marine
• 22:51
  protected area gets taken out by a typhoon, They don't have to
• 22:54
  worry about fishing for a little bit because they've had something stored away and
• 22:58
  they can still feed their families. They can still send their kids to school and still
• 23:01
  take care of themselves while this builds back up as we
• 23:04
  hope that it does. They've been able to feed off of that and they continue to
• 23:09
  contribute to this. Hearing solutions like
• 23:12
  that gets people excited. Oh, so we're not
• 23:16
  in dire need. We're not doomed in this gloomy kind
• 23:20
  of situation. No, there are ways that we can
• 23:23
  build up. And even talking about what's about to hit Tampa
• 23:27
  Bay with Hurricane Milton, You know, it's
• 23:30
  looking at the infrastructure of Tampa and looking at
• 23:33
  the infrastructure of Florida and focusing on
• 23:37
  being more resilient, making those cities more resilient, even all the way
• 23:40
  up the Southeast and even to where I live in Ontario, Canada,
• 23:44
  we got the effects of Hurricane Beryl earlier this summer. And
• 23:47
  we started to see vulnerabilities in flooding because of so much water and
• 23:51
  so forth. So, you know, we've been talking about these stories and solutions. It'll
• 23:55
  be great to see those types of solutions get
• 23:58
  on a global map, on major media so that people are
• 24:01
  watching these. So not only are they seeing the beauty of the ocean and maybe some
• 24:05
  of those consequences that we're seeing, but also the solution to those
• 24:08
  consequences. So I'm really excited that OceanX is
• 24:12
  getting involved in that because you guys have such great production value, such
• 24:16
  great people that work on that. How do you, you
• 24:19
  know, get solutions and how do you portray that? Is it like individual
• 24:23
  stories or is it like you working with governments? Can you talk a little
• 24:31
  So, um, I noticed at COP when I went to COP 27, which
• 24:35
  was in Egypt and COP 28, which was in Dubai. I'd
• 24:38
  never been to the COP meetings before. Honestly, I went to the COP on
• 24:42
  a lark just to go see it, you know, and being invited there. And
• 24:45
  I walked around and it was so inspiring. to be there. Because
• 24:49
  sometimes in our country there just seems like there's like half the world doesn't believe in
• 24:53
  this whole thing and half the world is fighting against it. But then
• 24:56
  you go to COP and you're at this group of people from all over the world, anywhere
• 24:59
  they are, that understand the problems. And all it is
• 25:02
  about is solutions to the problems. It's just piles of solutions. Every
• 25:06
  booth I went to, I was like, oh, you've got hydrogen. Oh, you've got
• 25:09
  farming. Oh, you've got seaweed. Oh, like, like, like, oh, it's everywhere.
• 25:13
  You know, like, it isn't some bespoke thing. It's become a
• 25:16
  mainstream, you know, due to the real, due to
• 25:19
  the movement, the climate movement and the thought around it. The fact
• 25:23
  that, that, you know, what we're asking though,
• 25:26
  at the end of the day, to me, and this was an epiphany for
• 25:30
  me, is that I think that the development of
• 25:33
  oil and development of petroleum, I tell everyone
• 25:36
  this, it's probably the greatest thing that the human species has ever
• 25:40
  done. And I don't think that people want to hear that from an
• 25:43
  environmental group, but the reality is that that has brought such,
• 25:48
  it has changed humans in a way. If you study it, how amazing it was,
• 25:51
  what's changed in terms of lighting and just starting with lighting, but
• 25:55
  you know, transportation and food, it's all thanks
• 26:00
  To be honest, it saved the whales because that's what we got, our energy
• 26:04
  It saved the whales as a thing. In
• 26:08
  the end of the day, it was a great uplifter
• 26:11
  for the entire human race. It's a very hard thing to
• 26:15
  say, okay guys, we got to not do this anymore. And I
• 26:18
  think that I'm proud to be a scientist because scientists looked
• 26:23
  at the problem and said, okay, it's a problem now, but
• 26:26
  there's still entrenched, not just business, but there's
• 26:29
  an entrenched thing in that world because they built such
• 26:33
  an amazing structure to distribute this oil throughout the world. It's
• 26:36
  a bad word today, but in reality, it's an amazing thing.
• 26:40
  But as a scientist, we just look at it and
• 26:43
  say, now it's absolutely wrong. And maybe
• 26:46
  it wasn't wrong when we started it, and it wasn't wrong for the longest time, but
• 26:50
  now we realize that it's causing damage, serious damage to the Earth. And
• 26:53
  you're taking all this carbon that nature has spent billions
• 26:57
  of years burying, And the atmosphere is a result of
• 27:00
  that, and all of the earth is a result of this carbon being physically buried
• 27:04
  due to carbon storage over the billions of years. And we're just like burning it, like shooting
• 27:08
  it out. And the atmosphere and everything in the ocean is trying to take it, and
• 27:11
  it can't. It just can't take it. And you say,
• 27:14
  oh, it's a couple of degrees. You hear the IOC, and they're like, oh, it's
• 27:17
  two degrees. I always remind people, two degrees is
• 27:21
  two degrees over the earth. It's not like
• 27:25
  you're frying pan. What's the difference of two degrees? But the fact
• 27:28
  is that we're seeing the effects of that. A couple of degrees in the Gulf of
• 27:32
  Mexico, and you've got category fives every day. If something gets
• 27:36
  in that gulf, it's going to become a category five. It's warm. So
• 27:41
  I turned the corner when I was actually COP 27 on some level,
• 27:45
  because part of me is like, I live in this world of problem, problem, problem, especially
• 27:48
  traveling around the earth and seeing first hand. And
• 27:52
  I started to see the concept of this hydrogen generation,
• 27:56
  right? I know that hydrogen sort of had a false start maybe a couple of years ago.
• 27:59
  People started it. Well, California did stuff with it. It
• 28:02
  was the first time and I started to like dig into it, like as alternative fuel.
• 28:07
  And it's just the whole thing suddenly just came crystal clear to me, like there is
• 28:10
  this material on the earth, hydrogen, which is 80% of
• 28:14
  the earth is made of hydrogen, right? That is this exchange
• 28:20
  material between electricity and storage. And
• 28:23
  electricity, it's like the battery, it's everything all in one packet. The
• 28:27
  idea now that hydrogen is just this exchange feature, but
• 28:31
  the beauty of the idea suddenly became to me that, again,
• 28:35
  as scientists, you can put aside all the difficulties in society. In
• 28:39
  other words, it's not the difficulties, it's society accepting things and changing. You can
• 28:42
  just look at it purely academically and say, this
• 28:46
  is clearly the way to go. There's no doubt about it.
• 28:50
  There's other fuels that can be in the mix, but all the different ways to create this,
• 28:54
  it's like, I always say it's like the ATP, you know, from biology, ATP is
• 28:57
  all this energy that you eat and the food ends up in your body and ends up as ATP, right?
• 29:01
  And the ATP is currency exchange. So hydrogen is like going to be the exchange, right?
• 29:05
  We're going to make it all different ways, whether it's solar or wind or
• 29:09
  geothermal, or we drill it out of the earth, which was another moment that was an
• 29:12
  epiphany for me. And suddenly we have this fuel that
• 29:16
  we can use and do it and it's not going to cause any problems for
• 29:19
  us. It's a different thing. Right. And, um, And
• 29:23
  it's suddenly like this big, beautiful thing that was oil
• 29:27
  sees its way to this new thing that has many of the features that
• 29:31
  we'll have. Oil, but it won't have all of
• 29:34
  the downsides of putting so much carbon into the atmosphere. And carbon in the atmosphere
• 29:37
  kind of leads to a lot of the problems that we see. The acidification, the
• 29:40
  heating, the movement of animals because of the temperature. Carbon's at
• 29:43
  the heart of a lot of that now. Having said that, as
• 29:47
  OceanX is concerned about the pressures on the ocean, carbon
• 29:51
  and acidification is really only one, unfortunately, of many problems
• 29:55
  that we have. Pollution, neutrification, overfishing,
• 30:01
  terrible coastal development, plastic pollution, everything. These are all human
• 30:06
  anthropogenic issues with the ocean. And only climate
• 30:09
  change is only one of those. But to me, I kept saying, if you can't solve that one,
• 30:13
  But then I thought, you know, the beauty of science is that it
• 30:17
  finds its way through all of this, you know? Yeah. It finds
• 30:20
  ways to solve these epic problems, you
• 30:24
  know? And that makes me proud to be a scientist, to be one
• 30:27
  of the people who are on that side of solutions, you know? And
• 30:30
  all you got to do is take a bunch of young people, put them in a room, and tell them to
• 30:33
  solve a problem. And if they have the freedom in the
• 30:36
  society, the resources and the audacity. And America to
• 30:40
  me, as I travel the world, still retains this. It's not the
• 30:43
  only country for sure, but it's one of the few countries in
• 30:46
  the world that has the audacity to just do
• 30:49
  stuff. To say like, we're going to try this and follow the
• 30:53
  leads and fail and fail and fail until we don't fail. And
• 30:57
  so now I come back to the solutions, as you're mentioning, and I see in
• 31:01
  each of these areas, You know, we've got solutions to
• 31:04
  these things, right? It's no longer, you know, like I
• 31:07
  came from biomedical science, right? Alzheimer's disease
• 31:11
  is a real problem. It doesn't have a solution. Science has not
• 31:14
  given us a solution to that disease. We've got some drugs that don't work that
• 31:17
  well. We've got a lot of really smart people studying it. But I can't say to
• 31:20
  you today that we've got like a scientific solution to that horrible problem,
• 31:24
  right? But then I look back in this field and I go like, wait a minute. solution
• 31:29
  for that. We've got bamboo. We've got hydrogen. We've got
• 31:32
  plastic bags that dissolve. We've got everything. We've got
• 31:36
  batteries. We've got stuff. We've got wind power. We've got solar.
• 31:39
  It isn't one thing, but what it is is a lot of smart people. I'm seeing desalinization
• 31:44
  plants that go underwater. Fantastic solutions to problems. Ocean
• 31:49
  energy for energy from the ocean, the science of
• 31:52
  it, all aided by the modern AI and
• 31:55
  ways to utilize all this stuff. So to me
• 31:59
  it's like the problems are kind of all solved. And
• 32:02
  the money is now to be made. And that's the part that also makes me very
• 32:06
  excited, is that the power of the economy.
• 32:10
  And Ray has always driven that home to me. Philanthropy
• 32:13
  is great. It shines a light. It's like
• 32:17
  a risk capital. But when you want things to happen, you've got to get it into
• 32:20
  the private sector. You've got to get it to the larger global markets. That's
• 32:23
  where all the money is. That's where the things happen. And so I start
• 32:27
  to see how the global market's responding to
• 32:30
  this. in a way. They have to. But also there's investment
• 32:34
  potential. And government regulation, which is a good thing
• 32:37
  in many cases, nobody wants to hear that either. But seat belts were
• 32:40
  a good idea. That was a government regulation. Car companies didn't say, hey, let's
• 32:44
  save people's lives, unfortunately. And Ralph Nader, we'll
• 32:47
  talk your ear off on that, about how having airbags
• 32:50
  was going to kill the American car industry. It didn't. And
• 32:55
  Oh, I got 12. Oh, I got 13 airbags. And
• 32:59
  now it's a selling feature. Yeah. It's a selling feature, right? Yeah.
• 33:02
  Like, oh, Volvo was doing well because it was a safe car. Oh, maybe we should make a safe car. So
• 33:06
  it's all temporal. Yeah, for sure. If you go back and
• 33:09
  look at those hearings in the 70s, they're like, he's killing the car companies. He's going to
• 33:13
  ruin it. It can't happen. How can we inflate a bag and 35 millisecond
• 33:16
  it? You don't hear anything about it anymore. It's
• 33:19
  gone. Our grandchildren will
• 33:23
  all be going like, what were you guys talking about? It's all done.
• 33:26
  So it's this transition period. But transitions are times
• 33:30
  to make money. So when you go back to that, I think
• 33:33
  that Ray is a unique position as this really global
• 33:37
  scion of finance and world economics. And he's a behind-the-scenes guy,
• 33:42
  understanding how things are working. And people go to him. And I
• 33:46
  learned that, like, that you can see it beginning, these solutions
• 33:50
  are leaving the realm of the kind of startups and the venture capitals and
• 33:53
  they're getting into the, so like, can you see that like Korea has made
• 33:57
  these massive hydrogen generating devices, you know, these
• 34:00
  high electrolysis units, and then these fuel cells, you can run a ship,
• 34:03
  they've got, they've got grains running on fuel cells, right? they
• 34:07
  they're making enough energy to store but it's just you just see
• 34:10
  it's incredible and I think now that now's
• 34:14
  the moment. They're going to be people years from
• 34:17
  now, how did those how did those hydrant companies get so
• 34:21
  rich. now's the chance to get on that bandwagon. The
• 34:25
  Rockefellers of today are the people who are
• 34:28
  not waiting around and saying, let's move. And so
• 34:31
  I think there's money to be made. And I'm not saying that in a disingenuous way,
• 34:35
  but this transition has gone from not doable
• 34:39
  to, you better get in now, because soon you're going to
• 34:42
  miss the train when the seaweed train goes,
• 34:45
  and the fish farms, and all the things that are going to help this economy. Our
• 34:49
  worlds shift. And unfortunately, you know, the other issue
• 34:53
  is, of course, the developed world, sort of the northern hemisphere will
• 34:56
  all get there sooner, right? And so part
• 34:59
  of my job as I travel around to these places, Cape Verde
• 35:03
  for one, is to say like, you know, the way the cell phones have kind of leaped
• 35:07
  ahead, Starlink is going to leap everybody ahead. Like
• 35:10
  you've got these leaping technologies and maybe you don't have to go through all the headaches we went
• 35:13
  through. But you better get in on this business
• 35:17
  because you know, the next ExxonMobil is going to
• 35:20
  be in a business and you should have it here, right? Exactly.
• 35:24
  You should build. And so like the
• 35:28
  opportunity to me, like I can, you can name a problem and I can give
• 35:31
  you a solution, you know, in the climate world and the ocean world.
• 35:35
  And we work a lot with like World Economic Forum. Again, this
• 35:38
  is like the people that bring you Davos, which is a big like, Oh my God. But
• 35:42
  they're also got a thousand startups, a thousand ocean startups. And there's
• 35:45
  just, A bunch of smart people, we had them on our boat, we did like
• 35:48
  a kind of like a tour around and each one of them is just like, oh,
• 35:52
  so wait a minute, I can use your technology and I can take CO2
• 35:57
  out of the atmosphere, I can make hydrogen, I
• 36:01
  can take seawater, I can bury this CO2
• 36:04
  safely in the seawater and get hydrogen out as a
• 36:07
  byproduct. win, win, win, win, right?
• 36:11
  And I'm getting out hydrogen that I can then use. So CO2 down,
• 36:15
  hydrogen out, no pH change. Yeah,
• 36:19
  it actually makes sense because hydrogen up means you're losing protons and
• 36:22
  you're putting, boom, that whole problem solved. You're on the way like, oh, wow. And
• 36:26
  what's the chemistry behind that? And it's a little company in California doing this. You're
• 36:29
  like, OK. So you see these
• 36:33
  transitions. And so to me, I started seeing
• 36:37
  this and thought, well, that's the story, right? Yeah. The
• 36:40
  story is the ocean as a place to be. And
• 36:45
  also, we talk a lot about space and how well they did,
• 36:48
  how well NASA did, how well SpaceX and everybody does. It's sort of popularizing
• 36:52
  this place that nobody really wants to go to. I mean, let's be clear,
• 36:55
  right? I always say there's no, like, talking raccoons in space,
• 36:59
  even though there is in Mars. We're not finding them when we
• 37:02
  get there, right? Not yet, anyway. I made
• 37:05
  this joke, which I always repeat, but I still think it's funny. I said it at
• 37:09
  a conference where there were some NASA people. I said, you know, that series, that miniseries that
• 37:12
  you're going to do on going to Mars, you know that 6 part series
• 37:16
  and the first part is getting there is that getting there. It's
• 37:19
  going to be great. Being there is not going
• 37:22
  to be you know, it's going to take us on Mars right. Yes,
• 37:27
  the real boring because yes, it's going to
• 37:30
  be this part 2 dust part 3. Part
• 37:34
  4 rock and dust, you know, it's like it is to play off allies.
• 37:39
  dried, dead, worst nightmare of
• 37:42
  a place to go, right? It's not going to be easy. Elon Musk may
• 37:45
  want to go there. Good for him. Him and his sperm, you know, he sent his
• 37:50
  sperm out. So him and his sperm can go there. But
• 37:54
  I'm telling you that I get in a submarine, you know, I go right off the coast here, I'll go
• 37:57
  down the submarine and I'll see creatures that that scare the
• 38:00
  hell out of me, right? And they're amazing. And they're magical. They're amazing.
• 38:04
  They're floating through time, right? So I don't need to go into
• 38:08
  space to see that. In fact, I know that I'm not going to see it, right? Exactly. So to
• 38:11
  me, the looking upward is not,
• 38:15
  to me, I love space. I love the whole thing of it. But it's more
• 38:18
  the getting there that's kind of interesting. But being down there underwater
• 38:23
  is so, you know, it's just organically exciting and
• 38:27
  Well, it's different every time you go, I would imagine, too. And if you're in a
• 38:31
  submarine, everything is different. Every time you go down, there's something
• 38:36
  I mean, if you just do the math, right? We've mapped like maybe
• 38:39
  3% of the ocean bottom. Maybe more, maybe we're
• 38:44
  up to 40% as you map it with sonographic mapping, right? But
• 38:47
  most of it is on map, just to be clear, with sonographic. But if
• 38:50
  you go to like visualization, you're about 0.001%. Because
• 38:56
  the problem with the ocean, of course, is that It doesn't conduct
• 38:59
  light well. It doesn't conduct any radio waves, right? So you can't
• 39:03
  have GPS down there. You can't have Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, cell
• 39:06
  phones, nothing, right? So you're down there in this void, and
• 39:10
  the light that you send out of your submarine just goes maybe
• 39:13
  four or five meters max. That's how much you can get light out,
• 39:16
  especially in the dark, which starts, you know, around. So you're in this dark area
• 39:20
  where you can't, right? So as you're driving, you
• 39:23
  see stuff. And you think, oh, I was on a two-hour dive
• 39:27
  and I saw three strange creatures. That's not a lot. Well, do
• 39:31
  the math on that. You only saw. It's not like you went to
• 39:34
  the Grand Canyon and you looked out. Because the Grand Canyon, you look out, you're seeing miles
• 39:37
  and miles of everything. But underwater, you're seeing five
• 39:41
  meters for eight hours. So do the math on the volume you actually witnessed.
• 39:45
  It's tiny. And yet in that, you saw three creatures. And
• 39:48
  the other ones are scared of your lights or your sound. So the place is
• 39:52
  just livid with life, you know. So we're all playing, OceanX plays
• 39:55
  a lot with how to sneak up on them. I told everybody when we were building the
• 39:58
  boat, you know, we're building it with a lot of oil company people who build
• 40:02
  boats, you know. So I was saying, look, the goal of this boat is to sneak up
• 40:05
  on stuff. It's like to sneak up and witness it, you know,
• 40:08
  and not make noise. And they were all like, what? We're drilling. you
• 40:12
  know, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not drilling, no hydraulics, no, let's
• 40:15
  get these quiet, low light, mid lights, like, it's sort
• 40:18
  of like nightclub mood, because you gotta move in on them, so they pay attention, you
• 40:22
  know? So, you know, that was okay, I get it, so we made very quiet
• 40:26
  ROVs, and we made quiet, we put new motors on the subs
• 40:29
  recently, very quiet, so they don't scare stuff, and then you start to, they
• 40:33
  start to come out, you know, they're shy, and they come out, and they see you, well, you walk around
• 40:36
  the woods, you don't see a lot of animals, they all run for cover, and they do it even more.
• 40:40
  In the sea, normally if they think if something's bright and making noise, I don't want to be anywhere
• 40:43
  near it, right? That's a sign that we're going to get eaten. So the life
• 40:47
  that you see when you play these tricks, you turn the lights out and
• 40:50
  you buy luminescence. I mean, it's just, yeah. I mean, like I
• 40:53
  said, it's, it's, I've never taken, I've maybe done 40, 50 sub
• 40:57
  dives in the past couple of years. It's never nothing. You
• 41:01
  may go all the way down and not see anything and all the way up and you're 15 feet from the surface
• 41:05
  and something shows up and you're just like, there it
• 41:09
  That's incredible. If
• 41:14
  I'm getting this in terms of the solutions and the stories being
• 41:18
  told on the ship, I and on like what
• 41:21
  OceanX does, are you trying to bring the solution makers,
• 41:25
  inspire them on the boat and in the ocean and start
• 41:28
  to bring them together to have those conversations? So not only
• 41:32
  do we get collaboration like you would see in the science world, but
• 41:35
  you're starting to get exchange of ideas and start to get that
• 41:38
  inspiration. Like look, you could go down in the submarine or you
• 41:41
  can do a dive or you could look out on the ocean and be
• 41:45
  out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and be like, this is amazing.
• 41:49
  You can never get, and I'll tell you this, I've been on ships before, there's
• 41:53
  no better place to see a sunset than on a ship. When there's
• 41:57
  just the horizon ahead of you and you see that sunset. I
• 42:01
  mean, I still think that my favorite sunset, which it didn't really set, was in
• 42:05
  the Beaufort Sea up in the Arctic in Canada, where it
• 42:08
  was still light and you just see the sun go over the horizon for like, it felt
• 42:11
  like a minute and then pop up, back up. Yeah, and
• 42:14
  then like you never get sunsets like that like unless you're on a ship,
• 42:18
  so I totally buy into the inspiration that
• 42:22
  people feel Now, with the media
• 42:26
  aspect of OceanX, will this be filmed, these
• 42:29
  exchange of ideas and sort of seeing these solution
• 42:33
  makers, if we want to call them that, being inspired
• 42:38
  and having those discussions? And like, will those be on
• 42:41
  like the programs like, you know, the Blue Planet or something similar?
• 42:48
  So it's still at the heart of the organization is discovery and
• 42:52
  exploration. And I spent a lot of time thinking about
• 42:55
  exploration as a concept. And exploration as
• 42:59
  a concept I think is super valuable in and of itself. But
• 43:06
  as we try to solve problems, our ship also is
• 43:09
  uniquely positioned to help collect the data necessary to solve problems.
• 43:12
  And I can't overlook that. It's built as a discovery machine.
• 43:17
  I call it like exploration science is what we tried to maximize. We
• 43:20
  tried to say, when we put this thing in the water, what's the maximum possibility
• 43:25
  over the limited time we have at a particular location to film, to
• 43:28
  collect DNA, to do as much possible viewing? So
• 43:32
  we built a ship that can pull up at a location. We
• 43:36
  can put two submarines in the water, put an RV down. do
• 43:40
  a CTD cast, put a helicopter in the air to do megafauna surveys,
• 43:44
  and put a team out of scuba divers out on the boat. Everything
• 43:47
  at once. And we've done this. You just, the boat gets on site, and
• 43:55
  It's like a morning meeting. You know, the night meeting is like, you're 8 o'clock,
• 43:59
  you're 8.05, you're 8.10, and the energy drops, and everybody's got, you know. And
• 44:02
  it's like, it becomes like a machine. A scientist first comes out, what's going on here?
• 44:05
  Like, we can't do this. No, no. And when we're planning expeditions, I have to say to
• 44:08
  everybody, like, they're like, Oh, all we're going to do is this today. I was like, okay,
• 44:12
  you just plan for that. And then I'm over here. Oh, we'll plan for that too. You
• 44:15
  know? And they get there and they're like, what's going on? We're doing this. I'm like, just, you do that. We're doing
• 44:18
  this. We've got a helicopter going out and we're looking for whales, you know, at the same time.
• 44:22
  And so, so I did built it as this discovery machine. Now
• 44:25
  that was the overriding. Cause on the Lucia, the previous vessel, we
• 44:29
  had to use a lot of the same points to access, you know, we
• 44:32
  had to launch and recover RVs and subs all from the same place. So we have, separate
• 44:36
  launch and recovery systems for the helicopters, everything obviously, right? So
• 44:39
  we can do everything simultaneously. So it is a discovery machine
• 44:43
  and still in my heart, and I think Ray and Mark and both of us agree
• 44:47
  that discovery still is is the heart
• 44:50
  of the organization, because we can't even
• 44:56
  tell people what's out there if we don't know. We just don't even know. I make
• 44:59
  discoveries on that boat, scientifically valid discoveries. Sometimes
• 45:03
  they come back to you. We discovered an algae in the Red
• 45:06
  Sea, right? I think an algae in the deep. And this
• 45:10
  algae, you know, it just kind of becomes an
• 45:13
  anomaly. Like, why is algae so deep? Algae, by
• 45:17
  definition, is the most embedded creature. Yeah, it needs light. So it turns out
• 45:20
  that zooxanthellae, which are the type of algae that live in coral and make them brown
• 45:24
  and do photosynthesis, they
• 45:27
  also can eat. They're one of the few creatures on the earth that can eat and
• 45:30
  do photosynthesis, so like plants that also eat. So
• 45:34
  these creatures live in the deep, and instead of doing photosynthesis because they don't have any chlorophyll
• 45:37
  left in them, they just eat food. But they still
• 45:41
  live symbiotically with the corals in the deep, it seems like. So
• 45:44
  how are they doing that? Why are they doing that? Why do you need a symbiotic algae in
• 45:47
  your tissues if you're not doing photosynthesis? Well, we think, we don't
• 45:51
  know, we think they're digesting food and then secreting a
• 45:54
  kind of glycerol or like like easier products
• 45:58
  for the coral to absorb and live off of. So the coral still provides a
• 46:01
  home, but maybe they become more of a parasite than a symbiotic,
• 46:05
  but still the relationship exists. I thought that's a
• 46:08
  little interesting esoteric. And then fast forward where I'm
• 46:11
  applying for a DARPA funding to use
• 46:15
  these algae in a deep sea device that
• 46:18
  will create power. with an
• 46:22
  algae that can live at that depth and can digest food
• 46:26
  and secrete glycerol onto an electrode surface that
• 46:29
  turns glycerol directly into electricity. So
• 46:33
  there are bioelectrode arrays that you can build. So now suddenly you have a
• 46:38
  discovery that at the time seemed cool and interesting but not
• 46:41
  relevant, into building into a product that will be able to produce 10 watts
• 46:45
  of power sitting in any environment with no sun and
• 46:48
  no water movement, almost nothing, to power sensor arrays,
• 46:52
  for example. When they're non-destructive, they don't They don't have
• 46:55
  batteries in them, right? So that's the concept of this. I mean, we're working on
• 46:58
  it in the lab right now. But discovery still opens
• 47:02
  the door to businesses and industries
• 47:05
  and ideas that you didn't have. So discovery still is at the heart of what we do.
• 47:09
  But like I said, we realized that with our prominent visual
• 47:13
  position as a vessel and what we built,
• 47:17
  the prominent image of OceanX, and countries are
• 47:20
  inviting us to come. and say, we want you to discover our waters. And
• 47:23
  then at the same time, they start asking like, well, what,
• 47:27
  what kind of studies should we do to help protect our waters? Like, what is the,
• 47:30
  what could be done? Yeah. protect the
• 47:33
  fisheries, to evaluate our fisheries, and how
• 47:37
  do we find carbon credits in the ocean? We don't know how to do that, so
• 47:40
  can we help them with that? Can we help them find seagrass beds? Because
• 47:44
  seagrass beds, as you know, are great carbon stores, and they
• 47:47
  want to destroy them or don't care about them, but they're really valuable to storing
• 47:54
  And biodiversity. They're like the coral reefs. They're one
• 47:57
  of the few Plants that lives in the ocean and they do a magnificent job
• 48:00
  and everybody loves it. You know, there's companies that are looking
• 48:04
  for these things. We're looking for them. So so what we tried to
• 48:08
  do now is try to bring together both of
• 48:11
  the technology we have on board the vessel to help countries
• 48:15
  who Honestly, the vessel is the best oceanographic
• 48:18
  vessel in the world, without exception. So even the U.S. and France, we're
• 48:23
  very proud to say that, that we built the thing, and thanks
• 48:26
  to Ray Dalio, and thanks, it is an amazing, like I said, it can do so much
• 48:29
  at once. But, so any country we go into, we're
• 48:32
  the best they've ever seen. And we need to help them
• 48:36
  with that. We have to turn that into a valuable, that's
• 48:39
  the goal of the nonprofit, is to go in and help society and help. And in
• 48:42
  this case, discovery is important, but helping them
• 48:46
  make the transition to a more to
• 48:49
  an economy that will think more about
• 48:53
  the ocean and protect the ocean and view the long-term investment and
• 48:56
  value the ocean the way it should be. So how can we help them do that at
• 49:00
  the same time where they're trying to develop as a country, where the country is
• 49:03
  trying to grow to be a more developed country? So
• 49:07
  how can we help them do that at the same time? Because they seem to inherently understand
• 49:11
  the idea that this exploitive extraction from their waters
• 49:14
  is not good. Also, in some cases, it's
• 49:17
  become difficult when they're extracting so
• 49:20
  much fish. And if it's a place
• 49:24
  that lives on fish, there are many of these Southeast Asian countries that
• 49:28
  eat fish. And they're losing it. And so it's more of
• 49:31
  an issue, not just a financial issue, but a country that can't
• 49:34
  feed It's populous. Some countries in the Southeast Asia
• 49:38
  get 40% of their protein from fish, and the fish are going away. First
• 49:42
  of all, they're leaving the waters, but also they've been overfished dramatically. So they
• 49:45
  can't do that. And they think, well, they need more
• 49:48
  fish for the economy. And on the other hand, the more fish they take, the less they have. I
• 49:51
  mean, it's a terrible thing. But we say, maybe we can find a way. to
• 49:56
  reduce the take, or take in certain areas, protect other areas.
• 50:00
  And there are examples of places in the US have done it,
• 50:03
  other countries have done it, where they protected fisheries. And the
• 50:07
  fisheries can rebound and get to a kind of a stable level
• 50:11
  of production, where they're not showing a decline. And if you look at
• 50:16
  values, for example, of effort put in, amount of fishing boats versus
• 50:20
  fish, You know you normally used to see this more fishing
• 50:23
  boats, the more fish now you just see that starting to plateau and
• 50:26
  you're piling more fishing boats and you're not getting any fish out because you know
• 50:31
  the cod fisheries in the North Atlantic where or our wake-up
• 50:34
  call as a yeah, we're all but especially the. the
• 50:38
  Atlantic hemisphere that we can't just do that. We've been hunting those animals for
• 50:42
  a thousand years, Scott. And now
• 50:45
  we just can't do it. They're gone, right? So we
• 50:49
  can use a lot of our bad experience. And
• 50:52
  I think I go, for example, we spent a lot of time in the Florida Keys.
• 50:56
  you know, and I grew up in Florida and the Florida has done a terrible job
• 51:00
  and I'm saying it here at protecting its natural resources. And
• 51:04
  I, I imagine, you know, when I was young and
• 51:07
  we go to the keys, there was, you couldn't throw a rock. You didn't hit a dive spot.
• 51:13
  It could have grown into the largest dive site in the world, right?
• 51:16
  Because it had driving access. It's the only coral reef that America owns,
• 51:20
  except for what's in Hawaii, right? But it's the only, and it's one of the largest barrier
• 51:23
  reefs. Well, it is destroyed. No matter what the Florida
• 51:27
  Tourism Bureau might want to tell you, it's not on the top list for
• 51:30
  anybody to dive in the Caribbean. So if you go to a dive magazine, you
• 51:33
  say top dive spots, they're going to say Bonaire, they're going to say Turks
• 51:36
  and Caicos, they're going to say, you know, and that's basically every time I
• 51:39
  see that it's like Big Pine Key, it's Lou Key, it's all
• 51:43
  the keys could have been in that list. And they're not anymore because of everything they
• 51:46
  did, you know, and so you go to a foreign country and you're like, look, I
• 51:49
  can tell you how to ruin your coral reef. You over-fish it, which
• 51:53
  we did in Florida. Put anchors down all
• 51:56
  you want in Florida. We stopped doing that recently. You can
• 52:00
  neutrify the water by polluting, and you can pump raw sewage out of Miami,
• 52:04
  processed sewage outside of Miami Bay. Still, to this day,
• 52:07
  we pump sewage into Miami Bay. You can do those things. And
• 52:11
  let me show you what it looks like. In my time, in the
• 52:14
  70s, I dove there. It was crazy. And then we
• 52:17
  had a trip to Cuba. And I
• 52:20
  say that's a real kick in the gut for a real red meat state
• 52:24
  like Florida. They don't love Fidel Castro and his
• 52:27
  Cuba, but I'll tell you, Fidel Castro did a better job of protecting the waters around Cuba.
• 52:30
  He did. And I'm going to get killed for saying this, but I dove in
• 52:33
  that area. We were talking about it earlier. saltwater crocs,
• 52:37
  you've got whales, you've got bait balls, you know, you've got the thing that you
• 52:41
  had in Florida. It's gone, right? And that's 90 miles
• 52:44
  off the coast. So it's not a climate change issue in Florida. Those
• 52:48
  reefs were actively destroyed by, you know,
• 52:51
  and there's a lot of great people down there working. Now we've got this disease running down
• 52:55
  the coast. I mean, I have to say, I went down there and dove. I
• 52:58
  hadn't dove 20 years there. And when we brought Aleutia there, we did this
• 53:01
  very extensive set of experiments all the way from dry Tortuga up.
• 53:05
  to Miami Bay. And we went that direction because we didn't want
• 53:09
  to drag the disease with us as we went down. We were recommended, if you're going to dive
• 53:13
  in the diseased parts of the water, don't. So I did that. And I said, of all the places
• 53:16
  I've been in the world, I've never seen in a country like
• 53:19
  the United States, why would we do that? And I'm on the boat,
• 53:23
  and we're having these press conferences. And the beauty of being OceanX is nobody
• 53:27
  owns us. Right? Right. Some of the laboratories that
• 53:30
  we worked with there, they're all state-funded, and they don't keep their mouths shut. I
• 53:33
  don't keep my mouth shut. And now they're debating whether they should
• 53:37
  ban certain types of sunblock. And I was saying to the guy like, are
• 53:41
  you kidding me? Can you look in the water out there and am
• 53:44
  I sure that sunblock Are you changing sunblocks going to protect your reef?
• 53:47
  No. I don't know. But I'm going to tell you, if you put sunblock in a tank
• 53:51
  with fish, with reef, it kills them, right? Yeah, but you don't know. OK,
• 53:54
  you go ahead. But you've got a patient underwater there that's like on life support. So
• 53:58
  can you not do everything you can possibly do to revive this thing?
• 54:01
  Or are you just going to argue with me about whether sunscreen, which
• 54:05
  blocks the sun rays, is from getting to your skin, and corals need sun? So I
• 54:08
  don't know. Logically, it makes sense to me. I'm saying like, well, penguins are
• 54:11
  out there. And by the way, penguins live in Mexico. So
• 54:16
  all your complaints, the Mexicans figured this
• 54:20
  stuff out. And Florida's arguing the point, like, really, I
• 54:23
  mean, really nailing the coffin. So I realized that
• 54:26
  those points that the messaging that we do at OceanX is even
• 54:30
  more important than the science, because what I was surrounded by was amazing scientists
• 54:33
  studying these diseased coral. And I'm like, guys, like,
• 54:37
  it's like the economy, stupid, you know, like it is That's
• 54:41
  the problem is facing you there. You know that you screwed up the Everglades. So
• 54:45
  I go to other countries, and I'm like, I'm not here to tell you, in
• 54:49
  your developing country, how America does things better. Of
• 54:53
  course. And they don't want to hear that. And you know what? We don't tell them that, because we didn't
• 54:56
  do that. No. I can't stand there and go, let me bring you to the Florida
• 55:00
  grief and show you how beautiful it is. And I'm sure I won't be
• 55:03
  allowed to go to Florida again. But on the other hand, please stop.
• 55:07
  Yeah, it's true. And they've got this huge multi-billion dollar
• 55:11
  plan to try to fix the Everglades. Where is
• 55:14
  it? They've got to fix the problem that they made. So, you
• 55:17
  know, I think that we have case studies in that direction.
• 55:21
  And so, and then you've got Cuba right across the water,
• 55:24
  you know. So I think that in the
• 55:28
  thing about OceanX was beautiful for me as a person to witness all of this. Whether
• 55:33
  it's the Red Sea or the Indian Pacific or the Arctic or
• 55:37
  the Antarctic or I've been in all the oceans. I've
• 55:41
  seen it all firsthand, you know, from the from a submarine. I've
• 55:45
  talked to everybody about it, right? So so it's not a I'm
• 55:48
  not it's not a fake news thing. It's a like I've known it seen it.
• 55:51
  Yeah, people a lot of people have I'm not the only one scientists do it but Ocean
• 55:55
  X has given me the unique opportunity to be. to be there and
• 55:58
  to look at all that. But then to see
• 56:02
  that in enlightened societies, think about it,
• 56:05
  right? Think about waste treatment. You know, the Florida Keys
• 56:09
  had septic systems on the keys. I mean, what were you thinking? These are
• 56:18
  And you're going to put, you know, E. coli down there and you think
• 56:21
  it's not going to get out into the, of course it neutrified the whole area, right? And
• 56:25
  you're going to block the water that's filtered through the Everglades and
• 56:28
  now you're getting fertilizer. I mean, so, you know, you
• 56:31
  see these things and you see countries that are really trying hard to
• 56:35
  avoid those problems. And that to me is, is just that solution happening
• 56:39
  right there. So to kind of bring that message, is what I
• 56:42
  think is great. And then to bring the technology, but it's more
• 56:45
  than technology, it's a way of thinking, which is a
• 56:49
  way of thinking. So to say to them, like, for
• 56:52
  sure, Western culture doesn't have the answer to
• 56:55
  these problems. We have answers by the fact that we did things wrong. And
• 56:59
  so what I'm going to ask of you is to just feel
• 57:03
  in your heart, what does your heart telling you? And then let us help you
• 57:07
  with the technology. Let us help you see the solutions to
• 57:10
  your problems and maybe we can solve it together. And that, that kind
• 57:16
  Well, I think also there's that side, which I think is a very
• 57:19
  admirable side, because we need more solutions. We need more people. Not
• 57:23
  only do we have the solution, but we need more people putting those solutions into
• 57:27
  place, whether it be through business, whether it be non-profit, for-profit
• 57:31
  businesses, but basically putting those solutions so that people see
• 57:35
  it. We need to see these kelp-made
• 57:39
  clothing, and we need to see the ways to... Yeah,
• 57:43
  bamboo and no more single-use plastic, but the alternatives
• 57:46
  to that, not just so that we regulate, which we still need to do, regulate and
• 57:50
  ban some of those materials, but also offer those alternatives
• 57:53
  so it's not difficult to find and be able to go out and find
• 57:57
  it, which is great. But I think the other side, which is a huge side
• 58:00
  too, is to educate and inspire the
• 58:04
  people who are watching this message. There are people out there who want to
• 58:07
  know more about the ocean. There are people who are out there who don't want to just know
• 58:10
  about the doom and gloom, but they crave those
• 58:14
  solutions so that they can be like, okay, we're actually on the right track here.
• 58:17
  There's actually ways to do it. Because I think what happens is The
• 58:22
  messaging around a lot of these major problems for
• 58:26
  people who don't want to change is there's nothing you can do about it. So
• 58:29
  you might as well just rely on it. And
• 58:33
  if people see that there are solutions, then
• 58:36
  they can start to put pressure on the people who are avoiding those solutions or
• 58:40
  avoiding putting those solutions into play or putting up barricades to
• 58:43
  those solutions to say, hey, you know what? Maybe you shouldn't be in those positions of
• 58:47
  power anymore. And if it's something that's elected, Maybe you
• 58:50
  shouldn't be elected into those positions of power, and maybe we should put
• 58:54
  people who want more solutions to be put in place, who want
• 58:57
  to address the problems into place. I feel like there's a definite
• 59:01
  benefit to that type of messaging that OceanX will
• 59:05
  be putting out for people to see and just be like, hey, you know
• 59:08
  what? No, I'm on side of putting these solutions into
• 59:14
  I blame a little bit Hollywood recently because there's a
• 59:18
  sort of dystopic Hollywood messaging around the future, you
• 59:21
  know, they just kind of right and yeah,
• 59:24
  I know that it's easier to write those kind of shows that is to yeah,
• 59:28
  but I want to think like they're thinking either
• 59:31
  we have to go back to little house in the prairie going to give up all of our tech and
• 59:35
  everything's going to go back to work. We're telling you is that you got to give up all this
• 59:38
  amazing stuff. And that's the dystopic part
• 59:42
  where you're going to end up chasing zombies or whatever on horseback. The
• 59:47
  choice isn't that we're going to pollute the world and it's going to be
• 59:50
  hard. I mean, the Blade Runner, right? The raining and then, oh my God, it's never
• 59:54
  sunny out. It can
• 59:57
  happen. It doesn't have to happen. In fact, we can have both. It's
• 1:00:01
  the cake and eating it part that I love to tell the story of like, just
• 1:00:04
  because I'm saying oil's a bad thing doesn't mean I want us to go back to before oil.
• 1:00:10
  In fact, that's the truth. It's moved past it. It's almost like saying, well, should
• 1:00:13
  we just go back to killing whales again? It's ludicrous. The
• 1:00:18
  beauty of all this is the human spirit and the generational, I'm
• 1:00:23
  older, but I get to just live in this world of optimism. It's
• 1:00:26
  not optimism as much as I see it differently. Like I was
• 1:00:30
  saying before, I see it as like this is the time of opportunity. Because
• 1:00:33
  the species ain't going anywhere, and we're not going back. Nobody's
• 1:00:36
  going to accept that, OK, we're going to go horse and carriage now. No, no,
• 1:00:40
  we're not going to accept that. Because if you're going to offer horse and carriage or a hydrogen vehicle,
• 1:00:44
  I'm taking the hydrogen vehicle, right? I mean, I'm doing that. For sure. So
• 1:00:47
  I think that the thing is, it's the chance, it's the real chance to make
• 1:00:50
  money. It's a chance to build a new world. is
• 1:00:55
  a good incentive in a way. The non-profit space is absolutely essential,
• 1:00:59
  like I said, but that letting people know that there's a future, and
• 1:01:02
  it's going to be a happy future, and we're going to like it just as much. We're
• 1:01:05
  going to get over the fact that the car doesn't make the same noise it does when
• 1:01:09
  you put it in there, right? But it doesn't make the
• 1:01:12
  same noise. You're going to get over that. I mean, I love I
• 1:01:16
  love Bruce Springsteen, but the generation of cars of that, you
• 1:01:19
  know, that muscle car concept, you know,
• 1:01:23
  it'll change somehow. Well, there'll be a new concept that comes out
• 1:01:26
  of it, but we will, you know, we will find that place and
• 1:01:29
  it's okay. We'll be okay. We'll get there. It'll still be, it'll be
• 1:01:32
  great. The world will be even greater, you know, and life will
• 1:01:35
  come back. I mean, I think the planet renewed will
• 1:01:39
  surprise people. you know, yeah, surprise people said years
• 1:01:42
  around the streets like it actually really let the coral reefs
• 1:01:46
  come back in the rain for us come back. That's the future I I
• 1:01:49
  would love to see I was fortunate to go to some
• 1:01:52
  of these places before some of them are damaged and there's still some of them that are there. Earth
• 1:01:57
  will rebuild itself, but it needs time needs us to leave it alone,
• 1:02:00
  you know, but that will happen so the future isn't doom and gloom it's
• 1:02:04
  instead. opportunity for the new world, to
• 1:02:07
  build a new world. You don't get that opportunity often.
• 1:02:12
  If you can now build energy systems to compete with ExxonMobil, you're
• 1:02:16
  doing good. Let's say that you can make
• 1:02:20
  energy, you've got a windmill and you can make energy and you can make hydrogen and
• 1:02:23
  you can sell it to your neighbor. You've just beat ExxonMobil. Everybody
• 1:02:27
  doing this in its own little way. Because you can't drill in your backyard
• 1:02:31
  and find oil and refine it and sell it. That's in the domain of
• 1:02:34
  large companies that take it to places where it is and move it
• 1:02:37
  to places where it isn't and refine it. It's a very elaborate process.
• 1:02:41
  But now imagine that you have a windmill and you make enough power to
• 1:02:44
  make enough hydrogen or electricity to give to your neighbor or
• 1:02:48
  to make enough for yourself or to power a few cars or if you've got a dam In
• 1:02:52
  a city, you can make enough to drive all the cars in the city, right? Oh, suddenly
• 1:02:56
  it's a different playing field for energy. Now, suddenly energy becomes
• 1:03:00
  open to everybody. And if you're in North Africa right now,
• 1:03:04
  You should be sitting around going, we have the sun. And
• 1:03:08
  they need energy north up in Europe. So let's make
• 1:03:12
  the hydrogen. Let's put it in pipes. And let's send it up there. And they're
• 1:03:15
  going to be making green energy up there. And they don't have to get it from places
• 1:03:19
  that are not as pleasant. And they've had that fuel for
• 1:03:22
  so long, they don't remember how to govern properly. Because the fuel is
• 1:03:26
  just so rich with it. So in some places, not all
• 1:03:29
  places. Yeah, of course. But now this changes the balance, right?
• 1:03:33
  And allows you to think more, wow, creative ways to
• 1:03:36
  do things, you know? So I think it's a time of
• 1:03:39
  opportunity and a time of excitement. I think it could be amongst young
• 1:03:43
  people. But the messaging, like you said, we really can't continue
• 1:03:47
  pounding away on the dystopic future. It makes for great movies. And
• 1:03:51
  I don't tell Howard to do their business. But the fact is, that
• 1:03:58
  Not the future we want. Young people are going to be optimistic. My young
• 1:04:02
  children, I have 13 and 15 year old, and I try to tell them like, don't, don't.
• 1:04:06
  Don't worry about that. It's your chance to grab this thing now.
• 1:04:10
  And we're out there with all the computer technology
• 1:04:14
  and AI and hydrogen, all these different things are building
• 1:04:17
  this new world that you're going to take home. And it's just
• 1:04:20
  going to work better. In the end, it's going to take years, years
• 1:04:24
  before everybody can make the change to these things. But so what?
• 1:04:27
  It took years to get where we are. It takes time.
• 1:04:32
  What we're talking about takes time, but it takes people to
• 1:04:36
  be inspired, to be optimistic, and I think the line
• 1:04:41
  that OceanX is on and the direction that OceanX is taking, I think is a great way
• 1:04:45
  to start this off, to get more people inspired,
• 1:04:49
  to get people looking for solutions, look around, and then continuing on
• 1:04:52
  and being part of that solution, I think is the future. Like you said, there's
• 1:04:56
  opportunity. There's money to be made and it doesn't have to come at the
• 1:04:59
  cost of the environment and of the planet and of the ocean. I think that
• 1:05:03
  is probably the perfect way to even sum up what we need to do
• 1:05:07
  in our planet and what OceanX is helping to do for our planet with
• 1:05:14
  So I love that aspect. I'll tell you and your listeners, send
• 1:05:18
  us your solution. Your ocean view. And
• 1:05:22
  what we'll do is if we find time or find
• 1:05:25
  place or find a location, we'll highlight that concept. We'll
• 1:05:28
  be your free advertising. Because we're looking at having
• 1:05:32
  people come on board that do these things. We're already doing that. Bringing them
• 1:05:35
  on board and saying, showcase what you're doing. Let's put it down there. Let's visit it.
• 1:05:38
  Let's visit the fish farm, seaweed farm. and talk about solutions
• 1:05:42
  rather than and we have a brilliant way of his brilliant filmmakers
• 1:05:46
  and storytellers in our court and by the way they're all gung-ho on
• 1:05:49
  the idea because they see it for us. So we're all gung-ho we're
• 1:05:53
  all this optimistic group there, you know they just want us to help
• 1:05:57
  so when I talk to the group about OK we're going to make this pivot everybody yes
• 1:06:00
  because we see we're not we're not yeah, I mean
• 1:06:03
  it's a notion it's never been doom and gloom we've always been like that optimism around
• 1:06:07
  the ocean and how beautiful it is and that's worked and that's gotten an
• 1:06:10
  audience that's like totally thrilled by that we also want to say like okay,
• 1:06:14
  you love the animals. what can you do to protect them is think
• 1:06:17
  about, you go out and make some money and
• 1:06:20
  start a company that's going to be, but, but go with that new sensibility that
• 1:06:24
  you're going to, that this generation is going to have more than any that can
• 1:06:27
  solve that problem. 100%. I love this. And
• 1:06:33
  I think that's fantastic. I look forward to seeing
• 1:06:37
  this messaging coming out. I think it's going to be something that it's
• 1:06:41
  necessary. We need it. We need more of this solution. I think it's filling that
• 1:06:46
  People don't want to be pointed fingers at.
• 1:06:50
  As a scientist, I don't see a reason to do that. We're all in this
• 1:06:53
  together. Just taking sides, it
• 1:06:57
  doesn't work. I used to do AIDS activism
• 1:07:01
  when I was younger around AIDS when it was such an issue. We learned early
• 1:07:04
  on that what we call disease pitting wasn't going to work, like saying
• 1:07:08
  no, cancer needs to get more money. We're all in this boat
• 1:07:11
  together of health and we're all in this boat of motion together. Science
• 1:07:16
  and technology and social responsible behavior will
• 1:07:19
  all lift everybody up and there's no finger pointing. Anybody
• 1:07:23
  who's making an effort to make this work better is going to be part of
• 1:07:27
  the party. Anybody who signs up for a better
• 1:07:30
  world, So to me it's just
• 1:07:34
  the time to get in on it right now. Get in on the fun, get in
• 1:07:37
  on the excitement. And OceanX is just sort of about if you love the ocean
• 1:07:40
  and you don't want to think about climbing, you just want to see how beautiful it
• 1:07:44
  is, it's a home for that. If you want to see that you
• 1:07:48
  don't need to do anything, you just want to see that the world is going to be better, that's
• 1:07:52
  what we'll bring to people. Because that's what the world is. It's a beautiful place
• 1:07:55
  and keeping it that way, through hope and
• 1:07:59
  thought and work is what we're all about. So to
• 1:08:06
  I love that and I can't wait to see the
• 1:08:09
  messages that are coming out in the future. Love
• 1:08:13
  to be a part of that and looking forward to Vincent having you back on
• 1:08:16
  or anybody from OceanX back on to help tell those
• 1:08:19
  stories and share those with this audience because I know we're looking
• 1:08:24
  I have a whole team of people who you'd love, who would love to talk to you. I have to
• 1:08:27
  say that your show is part
• 1:08:30
  of the solution to this problem and having you out talking
• 1:08:35
  to the people, to your audience, that we talk to our audience, again, it's
• 1:08:39
  part of the team of communicators, to communicate the
• 1:08:42
  beauty and the solutions and everything about the ocean. And to me,
• 1:08:46
  you embody a piece of what we embody, is that we all feel excited
• 1:08:54
  Absolutely. Yeah, no, I can't wait. Yeah, we'll definitely team up
• 1:08:57
  on some more storytelling. And I'm looking forward to doing that. You
• 1:09:01
  know, we definitely on the same page of that. So thank you so much,
• 1:09:04
  Vincent, for spending time. You're very busy. So I appreciate you
• 1:09:08
  taking the time and being able to share all this new and exciting
• 1:09:11
  information with our audience. And we look forward to hearing from you again.
• 1:09:17
  Thank you, Vincent, for joining me on today's episode of the How
• 1:09:20
  to Protect the Ocean podcast. It was great to be able to hear what OceanX is going to be
• 1:09:23
  doing in the future. Thank you for bringing that to me. We really appreciate it.
• 1:09:27
  This audience appreciates you and the staff, the work
• 1:09:30
  that you guys do. It's amazing. to see all this information
• 1:09:34
  coming to us. It's something like a dream of a scientist to be able to
• 1:09:37
  say, hey, I'm going to take this boat, and I'm going to get on it, and I'm going
• 1:09:40
  to collect all this different information, not only just for me, but it's going to
• 1:09:43
  be for the government. That's what I love about this. If you
• 1:09:47
  heard Vincent talk, it's not just like going to a
• 1:09:50
  coastline of the Solomon Islands, taking data, and bringing it
• 1:09:53
  back to the US. or North America and saying, hey, we're
• 1:09:57
  going to just do whatever we want with this data and not share with it. No, they're going over there
• 1:10:00
  and be like, what data do you need to collect? We can be here to collect it
• 1:10:03
  with you. And they partner with these countries, this
• 1:10:06
  organization partners with this country, and they say, hey, look, we're
• 1:10:10
  here to help you. What can we do? Now they're going to start to say, hey, what
• 1:10:13
  solutions are you looking for? And how can we foster that
• 1:10:17
  by inspiring people, business leaders, or up-and-coming entrepreneurs
• 1:10:21
  to be like, hey, you know what? Do you want to solve a problem? Because that's what business is. Do
• 1:10:24
  you want to solve a problem? Let's solve a problem. And what I love
• 1:10:27
  about this conversation, it wasn't just promoting OceanX. This
• 1:10:31
  was about what OceanX's mission is. And that is to
• 1:10:34
  help the ocean, help us understand the
• 1:10:37
  ocean better, help us find solutions for the ocean. And that's what
• 1:10:41
  it's giving us. in the future and I can't wait for that. So
• 1:10:44
  again, Vincent, thank you so much for spending time with
• 1:10:47
  me today, with our audience today and telling us about OceanX and its new
• 1:10:51
  sort of path and its new mission to bring ocean solutions to
• 1:10:55
  us. We really appreciate it and we look forward to having you back on. We look forward to
• 1:10:58
  hearing from you and the staff of OceanX in the future on
• 1:11:02
  this podcast to be able to tell us all the wonderful solutions that you find, and
• 1:11:05
  I'm looking forward to that. So folks, if you loved this episode and you
• 1:11:09
  want to hear more, you can subscribe or follow, however you need to do.
• 1:11:12
  You can see us on YouTube, on Spotify. We have videos as well
• 1:11:15
  on Spotify. We're on Apple, and we're on all your favorite podcasts. And
• 1:11:19
  of course, we're on the website speakupforblue.com. You can get
• 1:11:23
  access to Beyond Jaws, How to Protect the Ocean, and other
• 1:11:26
  podcasts. So you can just go there and enjoy all the
• 1:11:29
  different types of content on wildlife and ocean. I want to thank
• 1:11:32
  you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the
• 1:11:36
  Ocean podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time, and happy conservation.