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From the archives: Radical Honesty with Gabrielle Bernstein · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Are today we even another episode from the archives with
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Speaker 1: one of my incredible guests. Enjoy Welcome to the Trauma
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Speaker 1: Epists Podcast, a show about the incredible people dedicated to
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Speaker 1: helping those who experienced trauma. My name is got macpherson,
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Speaker 1: and my mission is to raise awareness of trauma and
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Speaker 1: to inspire each of us to help those around us.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, ready for you.
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Speaker 1: F four thirty two and every month, our folks, Welcome
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Speaker 1: back to the Trauma Epist Podcast. I am thrilled that
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Speaker 1: was my guest today, Gabrielle Bernstein. Gabby, welcome man.
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Speaker 2: I am so happy to be here. It's a long
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Speaker 2: time coming. I'm a major, major fan of the pod
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Speaker 2: and have You've been such a resource for me. Thank
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Speaker 2: you so much.
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Speaker 1: It's amazing to hear. Thank you so much. So. Gabriel
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Speaker 1: Bernstein is the number one New York Times bestselling author
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Speaker 1: of the Universe Has Your Back, as well as Miracles Now,
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Speaker 1: Spirit Chunkie, and Judgment Detox. She was featured on Oprah's
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Speaker 1: Super Soul Sunday as a next generation thought leader, and
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Speaker 1: The New York Times named her a new role model.
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Speaker 1: She appears regularly as an expert on The Doctor Oz Show.
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Speaker 1: And co hosted the Guinness World Record Largest Guided Meditation
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Speaker 1: with Deepak Chopra. Gaby says, the day I chose sobriety
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Speaker 1: was the day I became a spirit chunky. I started
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Speaker 1: soaking up spiritual principles, meditation practices, and anything else that
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Speaker 1: helped me get aligned with my true purpose, which was
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Speaker 1: to be a source of love and inspiration in the world. Gabby, welcome,
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Speaker 1: Thank you. So there. Look, there's so much information out
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Speaker 1: there about you. You've got all these books, and you know,
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Speaker 1: you're talking all over the place, and it's really cool
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Speaker 1: just to have you here, sitting in that little booth
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Speaker 1: with whatever. You're drinking your coffee, coffee, and I just
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Speaker 1: wanted to really find out how the heck you got here,
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Speaker 1: because there's something driving you. It's clear.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. So this, this journey is all throughout. I've written
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Speaker 2: nine books in eleven years, but the most recent book
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Speaker 2: that I have now, I'm Happy Days. The Guided Path
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Speaker 2: from Trauma to Profound Freedom and Inner Peace. Is why
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Speaker 2: I'm with you here right. This is why such a
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Speaker 2: listener of your podcast, because what I've done in this
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Speaker 2: book is I share the journey of what it meant
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Speaker 2: to go through all the stages of recovery, from even
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Speaker 2: being unaware of trauma, being dissociated from my childhood trauma,
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Speaker 2: to remembering, to coming out the other side. And in
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Speaker 2: the book, I talk about EMDR, EFTSCIFS, and I just
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Speaker 2: want to nerd out here about that with you, because
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Speaker 2: while I've been a spiritual teacher for sixteen years, I've
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Speaker 2: also been on a forty two year old, forty two
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Speaker 2: year long, and forty two now journey of recovering from trauma.
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Speaker 2: So I wrote a book. I wrote this book from
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Speaker 2: the perspective of the patient, but also the spiritual perspective
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Speaker 2: of a spiritual teacher. And I share in this book
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Speaker 2: from the moment I was in the car, twenty four
4:01
Speaker 2: years old at the time, in my beat up white Corolla,
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Speaker 2: sitting and adhering to the alternate side of the street parking.
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Speaker 2: I haven't gone to sleep because I was at a
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Speaker 2: party an hour ago, and I'm coming down from that
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Speaker 2: party and there's people going to work, and they've got
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Speaker 2: their shoulder bags and they've got their coffees, and they're
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Speaker 2: all going somewhere and I'm going nowhere, and I've got
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Speaker 2: that red gatorade on the ground and it's really a
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Speaker 2: tragic moment. And I keep pressing play on this cassette
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Speaker 2: tape over and over again, and it's a reading. It's
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Speaker 2: a psychic reading from five months earlier. And the psychic said,
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Speaker 2: you're struggling with drugs and alcohol. And I heard my
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Speaker 2: voice quiver and I said, it's not that bad. And
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Speaker 2: then she goes on and she says, you can exercise
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Speaker 2: free will in this lifetime. You can stay using and
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Speaker 2: have a really tough time, or you can and get
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Speaker 2: clean and make a major impact on the world. And
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Speaker 2: I just kept repeating that, and rewinding and playing and
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Speaker 2: rewinding and playing and rewinding and playing. By the grace
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Speaker 2: of God, I got. I wound up getting sober at
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Speaker 2: twenty five, and in that sober recovery, I reclaimed my
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Speaker 2: spiritual foundation. I was brought up spiritual, very spiritual, visiting ashroms,
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Speaker 2: being named by the gurus, given meditation practices for my mother.
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Speaker 2: And I turned my back on that for many years.
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Speaker 2: And then I came back when I got sober in
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Speaker 2: twelve step program, and I was so psyched to get sober.
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Speaker 2: I was just so I was that twenty five year
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Speaker 2: old that was like screaming from the rooftops, like I
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Speaker 2: love AA, you know. And I was such a seeker,
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Speaker 2: you know. All the years I was using, I still
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Speaker 2: had a stack of self help books next to my bed.
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Speaker 2: And then as time went on, I really got so
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Speaker 2: deeply connected to what I was doing for my personal
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Speaker 2: growth and spiritual development that I started speaking about a
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Speaker 2: publicly writing books on the topics. And here we are
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Speaker 2: sixteen years later, and I've now released the book that
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Speaker 2: tells really the full story.
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Speaker 1: What led you, Gabby to the drugs and alcohol?
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Speaker 2: So I got clean, and so I'm going to answer
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Speaker 2: it this way. I got clean and sober at twenty
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Speaker 2: five and then but I wouldn't know until I was
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Speaker 2: thirty six why I was using. And so I got
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Speaker 2: clean and sober, and like most addicts, I just picked
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Speaker 2: up the other drugs a choice, right, so codependency or
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Speaker 2: I started workoholism. Workalism was a big one overachieving and
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Speaker 2: when I was thirty six, around that time, a lot
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Speaker 2: was changing in my life. I was newly married, I
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Speaker 2: was trying to conceive I was running this big business
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Speaker 2: by myself with one virtual assistant, and my husband was
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Speaker 2: going to walk away from his ten year long career
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Speaker 2: at GP Morgan to come run my business. So a
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Speaker 2: lot of the control mechanisms that I had in place
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Speaker 2: were starting to be dismantled, and so just at that
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Speaker 2: time I started cracking and melting down and then pulling
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Speaker 2: myself back up and then melting down and then cracking,
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Speaker 2: and then gastrointestinal issues and cracking and cracking. And my
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Speaker 2: mantra at the time was, I can't go on like this.
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Speaker 2: Then I had a dream, and the dream was of
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Speaker 2: being sexually abused as a child and then confronting it
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Speaker 2: as an adult. When I woke up that morning, it
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Speaker 2: was as if it had just happened. It was like
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Speaker 2: so real in my body, it was so true. And
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Speaker 2: then I was like, no way, man shutting that down.
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Speaker 2: And I pushed it down. And a few days later
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Speaker 2: I was in therapy and my therapist said to me
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Speaker 2: something that was just a little bit opening. It was
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Speaker 2: a little enough to open the door a little more,
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Speaker 2: and I just immediately was flooded back into a dissociated
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Speaker 2: memory and acceptance of this abuse from my childhood. Not
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Speaker 2: a lot of details, but it was. It was horrific
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Speaker 2: and terrifying because you go right back into it. And
8:11
Speaker 2: in that moment, I was pretty stuck in it, and
8:14
Speaker 2: I and for many months I was stuck in it.
8:16
Speaker 2: But it was the biggest sigh of relief for a
8:19
Speaker 2: moment because I said, oh, this is why I was
8:22
Speaker 2: a cocaine addict, this is why I'm a workaholic, this
8:26
Speaker 2: is why I can't be present, this is why, this
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Speaker 2: is why, this is why, this is why, this is why.
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Speaker 2: And that began the next level of my trauma recovery.
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Speaker 2: And that's what I want to talk about with you.
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Speaker 1: Today, definitely. So you have this realization which is just
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Speaker 1: so intense and crazy, how do things unfold for you
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Speaker 1: in terms of needing treatment? What did you do? Were
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Speaker 1: the steps you do? Yeah?
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Speaker 2: So first things first, I had a little more that
9:05
Speaker 2: it was recalled. I had a therapy session days later,
9:09
Speaker 2: and I was so stuck in that moment. I was
9:14
Speaker 2: really so terrified for probably six seven months and more.
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Speaker 2: Memories there were these imprinted visions that I'd always had
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Speaker 2: in my mind as if there were movies. You've heard
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Speaker 2: this before, and those imprinted fixated memories and visions had
9:28
Speaker 2: kind of haunted me. But I didn't have any reference
9:31
Speaker 2: for them, and now they were starting to come back
9:35
Speaker 2: in a full understanding the closet, the window in the closet,
9:38
Speaker 2: the chest in the closet, just the visuals. Then I
9:44
Speaker 2: immediately went into body work. I started doing some somatic
9:46
Speaker 2: work and I did some.
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Speaker 1: The time.
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Speaker 2: It wasn't with an SE therapist. It was just straight
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Speaker 2: just sort of self regulating work. And then I did
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Speaker 2: a lot of right away, did a lot of EFT.
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Speaker 2: I was already trained in I was doing Yeah, well
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Speaker 2: I was not. I was. I was teaching at I
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Speaker 2: was practicing it for myself, so it was really familiar.
10:07
Speaker 2: So I was working with an EFT practitioner that specialized
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Speaker 2: in trauma then, and that's Emotional freedom Technique e f T,
10:14
Speaker 2: just to clarify. And then I went into EMDR, and
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Speaker 2: EMDR was really soothing to my system and really supportive
10:26
Speaker 2: for me and getting back to a safe baseline. And
10:31
Speaker 2: all the while I was practicing i f S in
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Speaker 2: my therapy, but I didn't realize that it was i
10:35
Speaker 2: f S. I didn't realize it for a decade. I
10:38
Speaker 2: just was talking to parts, but I didn't know I
10:40
Speaker 2: was doing i FS. So to to to get to that,
10:44
Speaker 2: to get to that point. I had a beautiful experience
10:47
Speaker 2: when I delivered my son, which was the beautiful gift
10:52
Speaker 2: of being blessed with suicidal postpartum depression, which I think
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Speaker 2: is common for folks who have experienced trauma. It's a
11:02
Speaker 2: biochemical condition that we can't control, but I do think
11:05
Speaker 2: that it's probably even more present in women with unresolved
11:11
Speaker 2: trauma or PTSD. And at that point, I was really
11:17
Speaker 2: using all my wellness tools and this whole wellness world
11:20
Speaker 2: that I'd been in and meditating and trying everything I
11:22
Speaker 2: could ashwagandha and you know, acupuncture and wah wah to
11:26
Speaker 2: try to get to sleep at night. I was insomnia.
11:29
Speaker 2: I had a gloraphobic all of this, and but once again,
11:34
Speaker 2: by the grace of God, I hit bottom with this
11:36
Speaker 2: and finally my therapist intervened and was like, you need
11:39
Speaker 2: to see a psychiatrist. And so that moment was when
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Speaker 2: this woman who was brought up homeopathic and had been
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Speaker 2: in this wellness industry for so long and had unconsciously
11:49
Speaker 2: been part of the stigma around medication was now being
11:53
Speaker 2: prescribed an antidepressant. And for me, that was a radical
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Speaker 2: turning point my life because I'd done so much work.
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Speaker 2: This was already three years of trauma recovery behind me,
12:05
Speaker 2: in decades of personal growth work and therapy and spiritual practice.
12:08
Speaker 2: But I was still so afraid to go into the
12:11
Speaker 2: places that scared me. There was such a huge wall
12:14
Speaker 2: up that when I sat in my psychiatrist's office, she said,
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Speaker 2: I know that you're resisting this. I know that this
12:20
Speaker 2: is scary for you, but I want you to know
12:23
Speaker 2: that all of the spiritual work and all the self
12:25
Speaker 2: help worth that you've done, it's great, but this medication
12:30
Speaker 2: will give you a new baseline of safety so you
12:31
Speaker 2: could go deeper into the trauma healing. And I took that.
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Speaker 2: That's what I took, and I said, Okay, I'm going
12:39
Speaker 2: to commit to this. And it did exactly that. It
12:42
Speaker 2: gave me this newsline to go way deeper in the ifs,
12:48
Speaker 2: to really go and retrieve the exiled parts of me.
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Speaker 2: And so I really would love to share. I'm going
12:54
Speaker 2: to let you take it from here, but at some
12:56
Speaker 2: point I really want to share what my experience has
12:58
Speaker 2: been in that retrieval of really coming back to that
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Speaker 2: child part.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, What's I guess I want to ask about
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Speaker 1: it and striking at the same time is you had
13:11
Speaker 1: started this business, you had been a spiritual seeker even
13:21
Speaker 1: while right while this whole trauma had still been unresolved.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see now that I believe. I have
13:34
Speaker 2: a spiritual belief that our souls make a decision before
13:37
Speaker 2: we come into the body that says, Okay, I'm gonna
13:41
Speaker 2: sign up for that, that, and that so that I
13:42
Speaker 2: can learn that. And for me, I believe that I
13:46
Speaker 2: was brought here to go through whatever I had to
13:49
Speaker 2: go through to learn what true freedom and inner peace
13:53
Speaker 2: meant so that I could be a messenger, a rock
13:57
Speaker 2: and tour, a guide to help people get there.
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Speaker 1: Right. So let's get into it. So what happens? You
14:04
Speaker 1: start taking these meds into depressent Okay?
14:11
Speaker 2: And I was taking the medication and took several months
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Speaker 2: for it to kick in properly and to get to
14:17
Speaker 2: the right therapeutic dose. Finally I got there, and I
14:20
Speaker 2: started sleeping again and just started to feel a steadiness
14:24
Speaker 2: I'd never known. And I was realizing that I've been
14:26
Speaker 2: living for my entire life with an undiagnosed anxiety disorder
14:30
Speaker 2: otherwise known as PTSD, and I was starting to just
14:34
Speaker 2: feel so safe to start to slightly titrate in and
14:41
Speaker 2: out of that connection to those fearful, exiled, shame, rageful
14:49
Speaker 2: grief parts, the child parts that were so under lock
14:53
Speaker 2: and key. So I was doing three therapy sessions a week,
14:58
Speaker 2: and I recognized the pri I had to do that,
15:01
Speaker 2: you know, just like having like Deepug Chow run speed
15:04
Speaker 2: dial and like you know, any whatever. It was all
15:07
Speaker 2: the resources, the financial resources to do that, and so
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Speaker 2: I wanted to really commit wholly and fully use the
15:14
Speaker 2: resources I had to get the help I needed so
15:16
Speaker 2: that I could come out the other side and tell
15:17
Speaker 2: the story and to be free for myself. And so
15:20
Speaker 2: I was doing seifs and e MDR weekly because I
15:25
Speaker 2: wasn't going to just take the pill and be like
15:27
Speaker 2: I'm good, because that wasn't going to work.
15:28
Speaker 1: You know.
15:29
Speaker 2: That was might have settled my system a little bit,
15:31
Speaker 2: but it wasn't going to heal the wound or the
15:32
Speaker 2: patterns or the behaviors. And so I really started to
15:37
Speaker 2: dive deep into the ifs in particular. And it was
15:41
Speaker 2: strange because I was doing it for so many years,
15:42
Speaker 2: but I didn't know it was ifs. And then randomly
15:44
Speaker 2: I just started not randomly. I was just you know,
15:47
Speaker 2: really listening to you and listening to all of the
15:50
Speaker 2: trauma recovery content I could get my hands on it,
15:52
Speaker 2: and I was. Of course, I was guided to Dick
15:54
Speaker 2: and Dick Schwartz, and I was like, holy shit, that's
15:59
Speaker 2: what I've been doing for a decade. And then I
16:03
Speaker 2: became obsessed with IFS and wanting to learn more and
16:07
Speaker 2: learn more and start taking all the training. And then
16:09
Speaker 2: I befriended Dick and I interviewed him on my podcast,
16:15
Speaker 2: became friends with him, and then took Level one. Most recently,
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Speaker 2: I just finished, I just graduated from IFS, and I
16:26
Speaker 2: find so much similarity. And he's agreed that I can
16:29
Speaker 2: say this, but he can't because you know, in the
16:31
Speaker 2: clinical space it's hard for folks to sort of talk
16:33
Speaker 2: about the spiritual side of it. But all of the
16:35
Speaker 2: processes I was led to, our very spiritual therapeutic processes
16:39
Speaker 2: se emdr IFS. So I took the training and I
16:49
Speaker 2: started to really see how similar IFS was to already
16:55
Speaker 2: the foundational spiritual faith that I had. I'd always believed
16:58
Speaker 2: that with these fear based of ourselves that needed to
17:02
Speaker 2: be brought to God, to a higher power, to our
17:04
Speaker 2: higher Self for healing so that they could be resolved.
17:09
Speaker 2: And similarly, in I f S, we have Self, which
17:13
Speaker 2: is an ever present energy of love and compassion and
17:15
Speaker 2: courage and and just calmness and curiosity, and that all
17:20
Speaker 2: those sea qualities. And when we bring our when we
17:25
Speaker 2: get a direct access from those fear based parts, when
17:29
Speaker 2: those those overactive protector parts and we can connect them
17:33
Speaker 2: to Self, they can become less extreme. And in that
17:37
Speaker 2: less extreme role, we can then settle enough to with
17:43
Speaker 2: the help of a licensed therapist, and if s begin
17:47
Speaker 2: to touch into the exiled child parts that have been
17:49
Speaker 2: so tucked away.
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Speaker 1: Was there a lot of fear once you started taking
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Speaker 1: the medication? First of all, I'm wondering if there was,
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Speaker 1: what was going on, what kind of feelings were coming
18:07
Speaker 1: up for you when you decided to take the medications.
18:10
Speaker 1: Was there Oh my god, I go I have to
18:12
Speaker 1: do this, or I should do.
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Speaker 2: This, or By that point I was so desperate. And
18:18
Speaker 2: I'm actually grateful that I hit bottom before I got
18:20
Speaker 2: on the METS because it allowed me to commit to them,
18:24
Speaker 2: because I just went for so many months undiagnosed and
18:27
Speaker 2: trying to fix it. With all these you know, spiritual
18:30
Speaker 2: and wellness modalities, and it wasn't working. I actually realized, Guy,
18:35
Speaker 2: that for decades, I'd kind of been part of the stigma.
18:38
Speaker 2: Like I would people would come into my audiences and
18:40
Speaker 2: they'd be like, I'm so depressed, I can't get out
18:42
Speaker 2: of bet I'm suicidal, and I'd be like, try this meditation,
18:45
Speaker 2: and honestly, like, that's like saying fuck you to somebody
18:48
Speaker 2: who's having a biochemical condition, because that's not going to
18:51
Speaker 2: work in the moment. If you're having a serious acute condition,
18:56
Speaker 2: you need greater support. And what I came to accept
18:59
Speaker 2: for myself was that God was in the medication, that
19:02
Speaker 2: God was in the doctors, that God was in the
19:04
Speaker 2: therapist and psychiatrist, and in you when I listened to
19:07
Speaker 2: your pod and and in the meds and and I'm
19:11
Speaker 2: a woman of faith, and I've always trusted that I
19:14
Speaker 2: was being guided to exactly what I needed. No matter
19:16
Speaker 2: how much I resisted it, I would get there. And
19:20
Speaker 2: so I saw, Okay, this is God's handing me a boat.
19:24
Speaker 2: Better get on the boat.
19:26
Speaker 1: As you started working through this, Gabby, with ifs and
19:31
Speaker 1: so forth, what shifted for you in terms of what
19:37
Speaker 1: you felt your mission was.
19:39
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for that question. Yesterday I was on
19:43
Speaker 2: the phone with my therapist and I just was like
19:46
Speaker 2: really exhausted, noticing that that that old part of being
19:52
Speaker 2: overworked was showing up because I have so much on
19:55
Speaker 2: my plate at this moment launching this book. But I
19:58
Speaker 2: said to her, listen, it's so I witness that part
20:03
Speaker 2: not as a workaholic right now, but I see her
20:06
Speaker 2: as a woman on a mission. I see her as
20:12
Speaker 2: a woman who's going to take care of herself along
20:14
Speaker 2: the way and connect to self energy as much as
20:16
Speaker 2: that part can. But she's on a mission more than
20:21
Speaker 2: ever before. That that part wants to do everything in
20:25
Speaker 2: her power to make sure that those who need this
20:28
Speaker 2: book can receive it, because it's for the folks that
20:32
Speaker 2: may not find their way to you. It's for the
20:34
Speaker 2: folks that are not going to necessarily find their way
20:37
Speaker 2: to a IFS therapist or an SE therapist. They may
20:40
Speaker 2: not have the resources, they may not even have any
20:42
Speaker 2: awareness that that's something that's there. It's for the folks
20:45
Speaker 2: that have been then spiritually bypassing. It's for the folks
20:48
Speaker 2: that have been numb addicted, and it gives them an
20:56
Speaker 2: opportunity to recognize they're not alone forward. So it's it's
21:04
Speaker 2: mandatory right now that I that I let that part
21:07
Speaker 2: do her job.
21:08
Speaker 1: If you were talking to someone who was in your position,
21:11
Speaker 1: who was in your position, maybe before they saw the
21:17
Speaker 1: psychiatrist and they started doing the ifs, if you could
21:22
Speaker 1: talk to someone who was in that position, what would
21:25
Speaker 1: you say to them? What would they need to hear.
21:28
Speaker 2: Right before they had the psychiatrist and that kind of support,
21:31
Speaker 2: and they didn't know that they were going to get there,
21:32
Speaker 2: and they did not want to get there, I would say, read.
21:35
Speaker 2: I would send them a copy of this book, and
21:38
Speaker 2: I would write in it stay willing, because all that
21:43
Speaker 2: I all that the reader needs is the slightest willingness
21:46
Speaker 2: to be guided to what is their next right action
21:53
Speaker 2: and their recovery journey. And the reason I'd send them
21:56
Speaker 2: this book. And look, there's other books out there that
22:00
Speaker 2: I would send them to, but this book I really
22:02
Speaker 2: would send them because it is a door opener. It's
22:08
Speaker 2: a guide to awakening the conscious awareness of what of
22:17
Speaker 2: the fact that you've been running what you've been running,
22:20
Speaker 2: and helping you gently touch into what you've been running from.
22:22
Speaker 2: And also with, you know, really encouraging all the way through,
22:25
Speaker 2: get the guidance of a therapist, and then giving them
22:28
Speaker 2: the path that I went on so that they can
22:30
Speaker 2: choose from it what they want to use.
22:36
Speaker 1: You know, I want to go back to that statement
22:37
Speaker 1: you said earlier on when you you know, there were
22:41
Speaker 1: examples when you would talk to people and they would
22:43
Speaker 1: and they might say, you know, well I'm having difficult time,
22:45
Speaker 1: and you would say, well you should do so, and
22:49
Speaker 1: so meditation say more about how things have shifted for
22:54
Speaker 1: you in that sense.
22:58
Speaker 2: I'm a meditation teacher. I'm a spirit teacher. I am.
23:02
Speaker 2: I filled my book, this even this most recent book,
23:04
Speaker 2: with countless self regulating methods, and I believe that they're
23:09
Speaker 2: all absolutely necessary on the healing path for staying, studying
23:17
Speaker 2: your systems, bringing yourself back to safety, for the moment,
23:22
Speaker 2: calming and nerve, getting out of a panic attack, falling
23:25
Speaker 2: back to sleep. All of those moment to moment practices
23:30
Speaker 2: and even repetitive practices, particularly meditation, have profound have a
23:35
Speaker 2: profound impact on your brain, on your nervous system and
23:40
Speaker 2: your neural pathways. But I would add to that now
23:45
Speaker 2: that it's it's that and it's and more because we
23:49
Speaker 2: can use all those practices for self soothing along the way,
23:53
Speaker 2: which I did. You know, there were all my self
23:55
Speaker 2: soothing practices that I came back to and came back
23:57
Speaker 2: with Ezaka. But I still use them every day. I
24:01
Speaker 2: use them right before. I mean, just do my meditation
24:03
Speaker 2: right before I joined you. But I would say, let
24:07
Speaker 2: those practices be a support system while you go into
24:12
Speaker 2: a therapeutic setting and do deeper work. Unapologetically, I would
24:16
Speaker 2: say that right now, and then there's somebody listening. I
24:18
Speaker 2: don't have I can't afford therapy, you know, thankfully I've
24:21
Speaker 2: that there are there a lot of a lot more
24:24
Speaker 2: now because of COVID services out there that are free
24:27
Speaker 2: or a better price for folks who can't afford treatment.
24:35
Speaker 1: What is What is your mission? Now? I mean what
24:38
Speaker 1: you mean? You were so? I mean, come on, you've
24:40
Speaker 1: written nine nine books, you're speaking all over the place,
24:45
Speaker 1: You've you've obviously got this drive. What what what do
24:55
Speaker 1: you what do you what do you want to do?
24:57
Speaker 1: What are you doing? What is your mission? Do you think?
25:00
Speaker 1: Do you know? Yeah?
25:02
Speaker 2: After going through the IFS training, I think it really
25:04
Speaker 2: solidified for me. It's similar to what I've always been
25:09
Speaker 2: in the pursuit of. But it's much more clear now
25:12
Speaker 2: that I have direct access to self energy and I'm
25:16
Speaker 2: using that. So in IFS, your people probably know this,
25:20
Speaker 2: but we'll just demystified a bit. In IFS, we have
25:24
Speaker 2: self energy, which is the curious, compassionate, undamaged, resourced, compassionate, loving, caring,
25:32
Speaker 2: calm part of us, the God within us, and then
25:37
Speaker 2: we have all these different other parts. They've got the
25:39
Speaker 2: protectors that are the addicts and the alcoholics and the
25:44
Speaker 2: ragers and the over workers that are really in place
25:48
Speaker 2: to numb out the exiles, which are the child parts.
25:52
Speaker 2: And so through my IFS journey, my personal IFS journey,
25:55
Speaker 2: I've gotten a direct line of access to self energy.
25:58
Speaker 2: I've gone all the way through to you know, retrieval
26:00
Speaker 2: and bringing those child parts back to me. I have
26:03
Speaker 2: direct access from self to the child parts, direct access
26:06
Speaker 2: from the self to to protectors. Many of my protectors,
26:11
Speaker 2: I would say, all of my protectors have taken a
26:13
Speaker 2: real chill pill. Okay, they're like they're like on zolof now,
26:19
Speaker 2: but my protectors are really relaxed. They've just stepped aside
26:22
Speaker 2: and they're not active they're not overally active. And then
26:26
Speaker 2: when I notice them in any way get activated, I
26:28
Speaker 2: bring self energy in to soothe. And so from that place,
26:33
Speaker 2: my mission is very different. It's not very different, it's
26:35
Speaker 2: the same. It's just more clarified. To me, my mission
26:39
Speaker 2: is to help people connect to self energy, to help create,
26:43
Speaker 2: help people find their way to that direct access to
26:46
Speaker 2: their own self energy. If you'd ask me five years ago,
26:49
Speaker 2: I would say my mission is to crack people open
26:50
Speaker 2: to a spiritual awareness of their own understanding. I think
26:53
Speaker 2: that that's the same thing. It's a different language.
26:57
Speaker 1: I mean, as you say that, I'm thinking the most
27:00
Speaker 1: that's a very clear mission. And if it's not all,
27:05
Speaker 1: it's not. Obviously, you know, it's not always easy to.
27:08
Speaker 3: Get access to who we are, to ourselves. It's it's
27:14
Speaker 3: it's it's like a daily challenge, it's a daily slog sometimes.
27:20
Speaker 1: And why.
27:25
Speaker 2: Because the protectors are so strong, The protectors are so
27:31
Speaker 2: so comfortable and safe in their patterns, because it's far
27:37
Speaker 2: too terrifying to contemplate what it would be like to
27:40
Speaker 2: connect to or touch into those child parts, and so
27:43
Speaker 2: the protectors are how run the show, and the protectors
27:48
Speaker 2: don't don't necessarily know self is there. And so it's
27:54
Speaker 2: about through this beautiful through IFS work and I'm going
27:57
Speaker 2: to shout it from the rooftops. I think it's the
27:59
Speaker 2: most profound is the thing that really clicked it all
28:01
Speaker 2: in for me. The texically get a lot of emails
28:06
Speaker 2: from people up and if sing all over the internet.
28:10
Speaker 2: So but but but having that developing that connection to
28:18
Speaker 2: self to parts relationship through IFS, through some of the stories,
28:22
Speaker 2: through the methods in my book. Even in my book,
28:24
Speaker 2: I just I don't ever touch exiles and nor will
28:26
Speaker 2: I in public settings and it's just not my interest.
28:28
Speaker 2: I'm not there. I'm not the therapist. I want to
28:31
Speaker 2: help using this tool to help people connect to self
28:34
Speaker 2: energy and let their parts settle knowing that self is there.
28:38
Speaker 2: And when I introduce those parts to self, that's my job.
28:41
Speaker 2: You know, self can then take over, their self can
28:43
Speaker 2: take over. But what I really do in this book
28:47
Speaker 2: and I give them self self meditations, meditations for connecting
28:52
Speaker 2: to self, and so that would be a good start.
28:55
Speaker 2: It is just starting to use your spiritual practice or
28:59
Speaker 2: use your breath practice, is to start to notice the
29:02
Speaker 2: part of the inner awareness of compassion and courage, curiosity, calm,
29:16
Speaker 2: to start to tap into those qualities of yourself and
29:21
Speaker 2: listen to them, maybe journal with them, Maybe turn to
29:26
Speaker 2: that self and say, note, next time you notice that
29:30
Speaker 2: you're in a triggered place, instead of saying, oh, that's
29:33
Speaker 2: who I am and judging yourself, say oh, that's a
29:36
Speaker 2: protector part and cheer here. It just needs a little
29:41
Speaker 2: compassion right now.
29:43
Speaker 1: It's one of the things I really liked about IFS,
29:46
Speaker 1: and I've certainly used it in my own therapy. There's
29:52
Speaker 1: it allows for compassion for the other parts of you
29:56
Speaker 1: that might be really easily easy to judge and to shame,
30:02
Speaker 1: you know, but it allows that compassion for those sides
30:05
Speaker 1: and parts of us that we all have that sometimes
30:07
Speaker 1: we don't want to reveal or look at. But I
30:11
Speaker 1: want to say this, Gabby, one of the things you know,
30:14
Speaker 1: I really appreciate and admire about you is there's a
30:19
Speaker 1: courageousness that you have. You know, you're not sitting here
30:22
Speaker 1: saying you've got all the answers and everything's perfect, and
30:25
Speaker 1: you've written all these books and blah blah blah blah
30:27
Speaker 1: blah and oprah this and blah blah, but you're saying
30:30
Speaker 1: I've gone through this, you know, and I want to
30:33
Speaker 1: use this to help other people, and to me, that's
30:35
Speaker 1: so inspiring.
30:37
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting I was talking. I was on
30:39
Speaker 2: a I've been on a bunch of different podcasts lately
30:41
Speaker 2: with that are hosted by therapist, and they're sort of
30:44
Speaker 2: in awe of my ability to just kind of speak
30:48
Speaker 2: so freely and fluidly in between spiritual and therapeutic principles
30:52
Speaker 2: and even talking to Dick. You know, it's like when
30:55
Speaker 2: you're in that clinical space, it's it's it's it's a
30:57
Speaker 2: it's at a boundary, and it's it's scared to step
31:01
Speaker 2: outside the lines. And I feel like there, this was
31:05
Speaker 2: my path, Like, well, I get I want to get
31:07
Speaker 2: further training and move into a new level of education,
31:12
Speaker 2: but I'm so grateful that I didn't have credentials in
31:16
Speaker 2: that way. You know, it's a lot of spiritual training,
31:18
Speaker 2: but I didn't have credentials in that way because it
31:22
Speaker 2: allowed me to be the patient telling the story, not
31:26
Speaker 2: the doctor telling you what to do.
31:29
Speaker 1: Right with the doctor with all the answers rights experience,
31:35
Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, there's something very powerful about that. And again,
31:41
Speaker 1: something else I appreciate is this focus and appreciation and
31:45
Speaker 1: honor for the self and who we are and the
31:49
Speaker 1: self and all of its complexity, and it's you know,
31:52
Speaker 1: hills and valleys, and there's something so beautiful about that.
31:56
Speaker 1: And it's so freeing about that too.
32:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, true freedom when you learn to let self lead.
32:08
Speaker 2: So maybe people call it God, maybe they call it
32:10
Speaker 2: higher self, maybe they call it inner wisdom in our guidance.
32:13
Speaker 2: When you get access to that leader within you, it's
32:17
Speaker 2: like an internal parent. And so all of the ways
32:20
Speaker 2: that we were not receiving what we needed, we were
32:23
Speaker 2: not being seen or soothed or cared for by our
32:26
Speaker 2: own parents, we now have the immediate ability to receive
32:33
Speaker 2: that loving care and connection from ourself. It's so profound,
32:42
Speaker 2: and it does, I think it does require IFS training
32:49
Speaker 2: or of IFS therapy with a therapist or any kind
32:52
Speaker 2: of therapy is often leading you closer to the self
32:57
Speaker 2: compassion within, but I in particular is just extraordinarily profound
33:04
Speaker 2: to just totally turns our perception of ourselves and our
33:07
Speaker 2: behaviors upside out.
33:11
Speaker 1: When you first started your business, was what was the impetus,
33:14
Speaker 1: what was the goal? What did you want to do? Well?
33:17
Speaker 2: My first business was when I was twenty years old,
33:19
Speaker 2: and I ran up till I was twenty five and
33:21
Speaker 2: ran myself into the ground. Didn't run the business into
33:23
Speaker 2: the ground. I ran myself into the ground. And that
33:25
Speaker 2: was running what was doing pr for nightclubs and restaurants
33:29
Speaker 2: and being a cocaine addict, and that career I started
33:33
Speaker 2: because I knew I loved to promote things that I was,
33:36
Speaker 2: that I believed in. At the time, I was really
33:38
Speaker 2: into partying, so that was what I was promoting, and thankfully,
33:41
Speaker 2: but all the while I had the stack of self
33:43
Speaker 2: help books next to my bed. All the while I
33:45
Speaker 2: was reading Wayne Dyer Shocked Gawayne Maryanne Williamson really a seeker.
33:55
Speaker 2: When I was fourteen years old, I was the president
33:57
Speaker 2: of the regional Jewish youth group and I was like
34:00
Speaker 2: leading these spiritual weekends and being a rock and tour,
34:05
Speaker 2: being a spiritual teacher, getting on the microphone. So it
34:09
Speaker 2: was always in me the seeker, the desire to serve
34:14
Speaker 2: the leader, the leader, and me I'm an eight in
34:16
Speaker 2: the enneagram, I'm the epitome of an eight. So I
34:22
Speaker 2: was just really I believe that I came into this
34:27
Speaker 2: body at this time to do this work. I got
34:31
Speaker 2: sober and within months was on stages speaking about my
34:35
Speaker 2: sober recovery and speaking about my spiritual faith and speaking
34:40
Speaker 2: about forgiveness and love and what I knew then. I
34:45
Speaker 2: just kept speaking year after year. I kept speaking about
34:47
Speaker 2: what I knew then, and what I knew then, and
34:49
Speaker 2: what I knew that.
34:50
Speaker 1: So there was this part of you that was always,
34:53
Speaker 1: in a sense, using your own experience the whole time,
34:57
Speaker 1: the whole time, which.
34:58
Speaker 2: Every one of my books are based on my own
35:00
Speaker 2: personal experience. I write my books for myself first, and
35:02
Speaker 2: then I share them with others.
35:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think that's very powerful. I mean, right now,
35:10
Speaker 1: as you go through this, having just written this book,
35:14
Speaker 1: day to day, what do you what are you challenge by?
35:19
Speaker 1: What are your challenges?
35:20
Speaker 2: Do you think a challenge in the moment I may
35:24
Speaker 2: have is just it's not I want. I don't want
35:32
Speaker 2: to call it a challenge. It's an opportunity to witness this.
35:38
Speaker 2: I've launched nine books. This is my ninth book I'm launching,
35:40
Speaker 2: so I've done a lot of these. I've been on
35:43
Speaker 2: this road show before. In this moment, I'm doing it
35:47
Speaker 2: so differently from the standpoint that I'm just as busy
35:53
Speaker 2: as I ever was, but I'm somehow. But my direct
35:59
Speaker 2: access to self is this internal parent that's constantly checking
36:03
Speaker 2: in did you sleep enough? Did you drink enough water?
36:07
Speaker 2: Did you cuddle with your kitten long enough? Did you
36:09
Speaker 2: you know? And make sure not to do anything on
36:11
Speaker 2: the weekend, and just this real beautiful steadiness. So it's
36:17
Speaker 2: an opportunity to just really go through a busy time
36:21
Speaker 2: mm hm with that same worker part, but witness her
36:27
Speaker 2: in a less extreme role. And that's the beauty of
36:30
Speaker 2: IFS is that we don't know if there's no bad parts.
36:32
Speaker 2: As Dick says in his new book, there's no bad parts.
36:35
Speaker 2: All parts are necessary, but they but the goal is
36:39
Speaker 2: to help to let self help them be less extreme. Right,
36:43
Speaker 2: is my worker part in a less extreme role is
36:49
Speaker 2: extraordinarily valuable.
36:52
Speaker 1: That's so that's so powerful. One of my missions with
36:56
Speaker 1: with this podcast has been to invite therapists to honor
37:05
Speaker 1: who they are rather than this ideal of what a
37:08
Speaker 1: therapist or clinician should be. I think it's very natural
37:11
Speaker 1: for you know, young therapists, especially to get out of
37:15
Speaker 1: school and they've got this degree, and I certainly felt like,
37:19
Speaker 1: you know, I needed to be what a therapist should
37:22
Speaker 1: be like, you know, whatever that was, and have all
37:24
Speaker 1: the answers. And it wasn't until I started doing this
37:26
Speaker 1: podcast and started asking a lot of my guests, you know,
37:30
Speaker 1: what were some of the early clinical errors you learned?
37:34
Speaker 1: Could you share that? And I thought it was going
37:36
Speaker 1: to be quite I thought they were going to say, well,
37:39
Speaker 1: you know, I forgot bessel Vandercock's page two twenty two.
37:43
Speaker 1: I forgot this intervention or that intervention. Rather, it was
37:47
Speaker 1: I didn't allow myself to be vulnerable. I didn't allow
37:50
Speaker 1: myself to be present there was. It was about them
37:54
Speaker 1: not seeing and not honoring and not believing themselves. And
38:01
Speaker 1: what you're saying here is us to be able to
38:06
Speaker 1: honor those parts of us, you know. And it's not again,
38:10
Speaker 1: it's not easy, but it's there's something so freeing in that.
38:15
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought that up, guy, because I
38:17
Speaker 2: think that for therapists, it's a tough gig, because it's
38:23
Speaker 2: a really hard job. But it's a tough gig because
38:26
Speaker 2: you need to stay boundaried. You want to not let
38:33
Speaker 2: in too much of who you are, but you want
38:36
Speaker 2: to have connection. But the beauty of That's why I
38:42
Speaker 2: love IFS, because if you do therapy from self, so
38:46
Speaker 2: much of the IFS practice is about if the client
38:51
Speaker 2: doesn't if the patient doesn't have direct access to self
38:54
Speaker 2: in that moment and they can only see how bad
38:56
Speaker 2: their parts are and be so in it. The therapist,
39:02
Speaker 2: the IFS therapist can extend their own self energy. Two,
39:08
Speaker 2: they can be that bridge or the patient. And so
39:12
Speaker 2: I think it's important to recognize that you may not
39:15
Speaker 2: have to reveal every single detail of your life. But
39:17
Speaker 2: if you just simply drop in and write and make
39:22
Speaker 2: your tone a voice normal, right, you know, and just
39:29
Speaker 2: just just lean in with some compassion and genuine curiosity,
39:35
Speaker 2: not like bullshit curiosity, you know, but genuine curiosity, and
39:40
Speaker 2: really notice that energetic, subtle shift within yourself that really
39:48
Speaker 2: allows you to channel while you're in that and coregulate
39:53
Speaker 2: without creating codependency, but coregulate, you extend that self energy
39:59
Speaker 2: to the patient and they walk out of there feeling
40:02
Speaker 2: so connected to you even though they know nothing about you.
40:05
Speaker 2: And that I've seen in one of my therapists, in
40:08
Speaker 2: particular in my AMDR therapist, is I want to get
40:13
Speaker 2: her on your show. She's see you guys immediately. She's
40:17
Speaker 2: un freaking believable guy. And the thing about Tammy is
40:24
Speaker 2: that she's so dropped in with you as a human
40:29
Speaker 2: and it's her style, you know, everybody had different styles.
40:31
Speaker 2: That really works for me. I don't know anything about
40:34
Speaker 2: her family. I mean once in a while she'll say,
40:35
Speaker 2: oh my kids this or that. I don't know anything
40:37
Speaker 2: particularly about her, but I know her because she has
40:43
Speaker 2: opened her heart and her field to me. I got
40:48
Speaker 2: I actually interviewed her for my podcast and she got
40:51
Speaker 2: on and she had just read Happy Days and she
40:53
Speaker 2: burst into tears, you know. And you know, we, whether
41:00
Speaker 2: we like it or not, we often parentify our therapists.
41:02
Speaker 2: And to see her, that witness her seeing me in
41:09
Speaker 2: that way so emotional for me, and it really means
41:14
Speaker 2: a lot to me, you know. So I think if
41:16
Speaker 2: you are a therapist, I would really say, like, oh God,
41:19
Speaker 2: I want to speak to these therapists right now, so loudly.
41:21
Speaker 2: Don't be afraid to let on your guard and don't
41:24
Speaker 2: be afraid to show the truth. And I think that
41:26
Speaker 2: in many ways you've been trained out of that right
41:28
Speaker 2: and I pray for it to you to find a
41:31
Speaker 2: balance and a safe way of letting your self energy
41:35
Speaker 2: into the room.
41:36
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I couldn't think of a better message to
41:41
Speaker 1: put forth on this podcast speaking with Gabby Burns, seeing Gabby,
41:47
Speaker 1: what's the best way? Well, first of all, the book
41:49
Speaker 1: is Happy Days. It's out.
41:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Happy Days, that guided path from trauma to
41:54
Speaker 2: profound freedom and inner peace. As a therapist, I think
41:57
Speaker 2: if you have a patient or that's very new to
42:01
Speaker 2: the trauma journey and just wanting to hear it through
42:03
Speaker 2: someone else's lens, first of all, read it and make
42:05
Speaker 2: sure you agree and like it before you recommend it.
42:09
Speaker 2: But I think it would be very valuable for someone
42:12
Speaker 2: that's beginning their journey, and maybe somebody that's just in
42:16
Speaker 2: an up leveling of their journey as well, or maybe
42:18
Speaker 2: even for the therapist that's listening to hear it from
42:21
Speaker 2: the patient perspective.
42:23
Speaker 1: Just before we go here, you know, we're talking a
42:25
Speaker 1: lot about parts and honoring them, accepting them, and how
42:31
Speaker 1: do you see the change in your own self before
42:35
Speaker 1: you started working on these parts, before you started recognizing
42:38
Speaker 1: that they were there. What's been that arc for you?
42:42
Speaker 2: As you look now, I'm a totally different person.
42:48
Speaker 1: I am.
42:50
Speaker 2: I have clear boundaries. I am radically honest. I know
42:55
Speaker 2: how to speak with non violent communication.
42:57
Speaker 1: I can.
43:00
Speaker 2: Can say anything to anyone when I say it from self.
43:04
Speaker 2: I can say really tough stuff to people, but when
43:07
Speaker 2: it comes from my energy of self, I know it's safe.
43:11
Speaker 2: I can. I can do less and attract more. I
43:14
Speaker 2: can be a steady, co regulating presence in my toddler's life.
43:21
Speaker 2: I can get closer and more intimate to my in
43:23
Speaker 2: my marriage. I can lead my team with great compassion, kindness,
43:30
Speaker 2: love and still be the boss.
43:33
Speaker 1: Because you're in closer contact with yourself with who you are.
43:37
Speaker 2: I'm closer. I'm letting self, my internal parent, be the leader,
43:42
Speaker 2: not my ten year My ten year old self with
43:45
Speaker 2: about fifty percent of the time run my business. Not anymore.
43:50
Speaker 2: She's good. She's having a cappuccino across the street.
43:54
Speaker 1: Gahm me. I want to thank you for being here.
43:56
Speaker 1: It's been incredible pleasure. I mean, I'm so glad we
44:01
Speaker 1: finally got the connect and it's an honor having you
44:05
Speaker 1: on here. And the fact that you listen to my podcast.
44:07
Speaker 1: Come on, how awesome is that?
44:09
Speaker 2: Well, you're you're my favorite podcast, and I'm not bullshitting you.
44:12
Speaker 2: And I just think that your voice and your tone
44:14
Speaker 2: and your curiosity and your the space that you hold
44:17
Speaker 2: for people creates such value for someone who's on who's
44:22
Speaker 2: a seekert or a therapist that needs support. And I
44:24
Speaker 2: just I admire you, and I'm it's so nice to
44:27
Speaker 2: join a podcasts with a voice that you hear all
44:29
Speaker 2: the time. You know, You're like, I feel like, I
44:31
Speaker 2: know you have to gush for a moment and just
44:35
Speaker 2: say how grateful I am that I found you Apple.
44:39
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. How can people get contact with you?
44:44
Speaker 2: Well, I have a podcast called Deargabby dot com. Oh sorry,
44:47
Speaker 2: my podcast is called Dear Gabby. My website is Deargabby
44:50
Speaker 2: dot com and I'm very active on Instagram and all
44:52
Speaker 2: social channels at Gabby Bernstein.
44:56
Speaker 1: Gabby, thank you so much. It's been amazing.
44:59
Speaker 2: Thank you friend.
45:00
Speaker 1: All right, take care