Latest / Justice For / WTF: Barry Morphew Is Arrested AGAIN | Saylor Hayes & Lindsay Clancy Updates

Transcript

WTF: Barry Morphew Is Arrested AGAIN | Saylor Hayes & Lindsay Clancy Updates · Justice For

• justice for: Welcome back to Justice For, WTF edition. We're your hosts. I'm Jackie. And I'm Sam. Woohoo. my gosh, you guys. Look at us being consistent. It's like what, three weeks in a row? I think so. You're welcome. Yeah. We used to do it like what? Once a month, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got a little bit better at this, a little quicker. Yeah. And it's been lining up with our recording schedule, so there's that. That too. There's also been a lot of shit going on in the world, on top of it. A lot. So today we're going to be breaking down the disappearance and death of five year old Saylor Hayes, the deliberations in the Lindsay Clancy trial, which everybody has been talking to us about. And of course, of course, we are going to be talking about Barry Morphew arrest. I'm so happy. You guys. She literally was like, man, I've never wanted to be in an accident as bad as I do right now. I did. That's exactly what I texted you guys. But before we get into all of that, we have to shameless plug really quick. Period. So you all know the drill. Like, follow, subscribe, anywhere you listen or watch. we were just begging you guys for five hundred YouTube followers. we have a bigger ask now. We somehow got to six hundred and seventy. I thought we were at six eighty now. Or six eighty now? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's just as of the to d what us recording. Yes. Like once you guys finally hear this. Who knows? So like also welcome to all of our new subscribers. Welcome. We're glad to have you all here. my god. And please help us get to a thousand. Go ahead and share, go like if you're not already liking on YouTube. we just we cannot believe the insane amount of support that this last WTF that we did got. my goodness. It's awesome. Yeah. I'm absolutely blown away. And thank you so, so much and welcome to the jury. Yes, welcome. If you were at our live show, make sure you go use that merch discount code that we talked to you guys about. It's good for a month. We have seen a couple orders, but we would like some more. If you forgot what it is, message one of us. And we'll obviously this was an exclusive at the live show. Sorry. So that means you just have to show up to our next live show at Painting with a Twist on October 30th. Yes. It's gonna be a candle making. it'll be at 7 PM so go ahead, come to our next show. We do have exclusive merch at them normally and we do always have a discount code at our shows for those of you who come. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's gonna be a good time. And with merch as well, we are gonna start popping out some holiday merch. Yes. So make sure that you check out the website, justiceforpodcast.com. For those coming out, on top of it, you can also submit a case, which we are slowly working through. There's a couple that we were not able to touch legally. Yes. so if you sent that in, I'm sorry. but send in another one that isn't the one you already sent in. We love case submissions, so we genuinely do. You can also find resources as well as all of our episodes on there And where to follow us. our social media is Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and then of course all the places you can listen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we'll stop chit chatting about that. Let's get into this shit. Saylor Hayes was five years old and lived in Bristol, Virginia with her parents, John herb Hayes III and Geordyn Nicole Hayes. Saylor was severely nonverbal and autistic, and according to investigators, she had a history of wandering, or what they refer to as elopement. And she also had an unknown affinity for water. Yes. also, the mother's name Geordyn. It's spelled so weird. G-E-O-R-D-Y-N. Yeah. It took my brain a minute. I kept wanting to go geordan ge geordin. Yes. So when you see this, it's not a misspelling. Because Saylor was considered at risk of wandering, she had been enrolled in a program called Project Lifesaver. Basically this is a tracking program for people who are prone to wandering. Saylor had a transmitter that could be used by law enforcement to help locate her if she ever went missing. I didn't even know that was a thing. What? I did not know that was a thing, but I do have a lot of clients who are teachers and I do have a few clients who have severely high needs autistic children. Yeah. And a very, very big issue is elopement or running away. Like these kids will they just they see an open adventure and they are gone. Like through neighborhoods, out. Bro, it's like my cat. Yeah. So I have always wondered like I like all you can't leash this you know, you can't leash these kids at school all the time, but I like, what else could there be other than an air tag or something like that? Well, Virginia came up with it. So to be fair, l you know what? I think we should just I mean this in the most endearing way possible, especially if you know me. They're hobbits. They like going on adventures. They do. Me, I'm a hobbit. I they also love second breakfast. So, you know. Yeah. So I just like this is truly incredible and it's very important that she does wear this lifesaver transmitter and we're gonna get more into how it works in a little bit. I have never thought about it. I've never heard of it either. I mean I've thought about something like this, but I've never heard of it actually being used. That makes sense, okay. So at the end of August, the Hayes family traveled from Virginia to Pauli's Island, South Carolina for a vacation. They were staying at a rental home on Old Wacama Drive in the Hagley area. On the morning of August thirtieth, Saylor's father, John, called nine one one to report Saylor missing. According to the nine one one call, John told the dispatcher that he had buckled his daughter into her car seat and then just ran back inside to grab a few things to take with him to the beach. I mean, as a parent this happens. Like sometimes just getting them in the car seat and being like, crap, I forgot to grab the cooler or I didn't grab my water or my sunglasses. Yeah. You're not leaving for hours to go grab something. Buckled in and just You know, safe, secure in the car. Period. But when he returned to the car, Saylor had quote just escaped, and he said he couldn't find her. Deputies arrived and Saylor's mother, Geordyn, confirmed John's story that Saylor had been in a child safety seat inside the family's SUV and she didn't know where she had gone. I don't know where Geordyn was during this. Okay. Obviously she was at the house. I just don't think that she was like she could have been sitting getting ready. She could have like, you been putting on her bathing suit after getting everything else together as moms do. So now there's a five year old nonverbal autistic child who is known to wander, who has an affinity for water, missing from a vacation rental that is right near the Waccama River. God. This immediately becomes an all hands on deck. Search. And the Georgetown County Sheriff's Office gets involved. Firefighters, divers, canine boats, drones, and other agencies are brought in immediately. Did you say canine boats? Canines and boats. Sorry. That'd be some paw patrol shit. I'd like that. Neighbors and members of the community started searching too, like immediately. It was like everybody went out. And I get that. In And they're not even from there, so that's good community. Good community. In cities that have waters, like bodies of water on the east coast, lakes, rivers, stuff like that. Generally if there's a child that's going missing near water, everybody is hell yeah. Instantly on top of it. And I I love this community. Hats off to them. Since Saylor was enrolled in the Project Lifesaber, authorities in Virginia provided the frequency associated with her tracking transmitters so searchers could try to locate her. Okay. But they couldn't find the signal anywhere near where Saylor went missing. So they brought in additional equipment, including a helicopter equipped with Project Lifesaber technology to scan the area. Unfortunately, there was still no signal in the area where they were searching. What do you mean? What do you mean, Jackie? I'm really I'm really interested to see what this thing looks like too. Like my mind, as shitty as it sounds, remind like instantly went to the tracker in like Hunger Games. So I'm gonna explain it in a second. Okay, thank you. Okay. That's kinda where my mind went to, I'm not gonna lie. So this is where the story is gonna take a very different turn. Saylor's Transmitter actually started putting off signals near the family's home in Bristol, Virginia. Not in South Carolina where they were vacationing. so my suspicions were correct. When John and Geordyn were told about the transmitter signal coming from Bristol, they encouraged the search to move in the direction of the signal. What? While also trying to direct the search away from water located near the rental where they were staying at. What? The transmitter was eventually found inside a vehicle back at the family's home in Bristol, more than three hundred miles away from where everyone was desperately searching for Saylor. God. Investigators say Saylor's tracking transmitter had actually been removed before the family ever left Virginia. I knew it did. And let me tell y'all something about this transmitter. It's not just a bracelet that a parent or a child can take on and off. Once a child is fitted with a transmitter, it can only be taken off by the people who put it on, or it has to be cut off. Girl. So it's like an ankle bracelet. It is like an ankle monitor in the way that the only way that you can get it off is to cut it off or the people who put it on with the tool can take it off of you. Investigators believe that John and Geordyn cut Saylor's transmitter off before they left for vacation. Then they encouraged authorities to use the project lifesaver technology during the search despite knowing Saylor wasn't wearing the transmitter. yuck. Yeah, with this new information, the search for Saylor in South Carolina continued to intensify throughout the day and into the night. Hundreds of people and multiple agencies were involved. People were searching on foot, boats were searching the waterways, divers were in the waters, aircrafts were being brought in, members of the public were calling nine one with possible sightings of her. But nobody could find Saylor. Then on the morning of august thirty first, the search came to a devastating end. Saylor's body was recovered from the water near Hagley Landing, not far from the family's rental home. You know that same area of water that her parents were trying to direct searchers away from? Saylor was wearing a blue bathing suit, and investigators found a strap around her ankle that appeared to be like a child's wrist tether, but they don't know what that strap was attached to or whether it had anything to do with how Saylor ended up in the water. my god, my mind just went to an extremely dark place. an autopsy has been performed and it found pulmonary edema. Essentially, there's fluid in Saylor's lungs, but there was no visible signs of trauma on her body. Okay. The findings can be consistent with drowning, but the coroner has not officially determined sailor's cause or manner of death yet. The final autopsy report is expected in like the coming eight to ten weeks. Are we gonna get it? Most likely, yeah. Even with her age? They'll most likely release like the findings of the autopsy. I've seen it before. Yeah, that's true, that's true. So quickly investigators began looking into the circumstances surrounding Saylor's care, including what happened before she disappeared, what her parents told authorities during the search, and why the safety measures that have been put in place for a child exactly like Saylor weren't being used. Yeah, that investigation eventually led to the arrest of John Hayes and Geordyn Hayes. Period. Good. The couple actually left South Carolina shortly after Saylor was found, but authorities tracked them down to Carter County, Tennessee. Excuse me? Yeah. Were they fucking running? I don't know. I'm just saying that's opposite direction. Yeah. On September first, they were arrested and Extradited back to South Carolina. Okay. Both parents are facing charges of unlawfully placing a child at risk and willfully abandoning a child. We don't have any murder charges or anything like that yet. Mm-hmm. John and Geordyn have already had their court appearances and things are already getting interesting. please tell me. John currently has two reper two attorneys representing him. At the September 5th bond hearing in Georgetown County, he was represented by two attorneys. His attorneys argued for a personal recognizance bond and pointed to his lack of violent criminal history and his desire to be near family for Saylor's funeral. And the judge denied his bond. Geordyn, on the other hand, did not have anyone representing her. The reports from the hearing say that Geordyn appeared without representation and was visibly emotional during the proceeding. She also spoke over John's attorneys at certain points, and the judge ultimately denied bond for her as well. She was speaking over someone's attorneys? I've just I've read that she was just really distraught during it. Okay. Like like Like upset. Telenueva I Distraught I think just I don't know. Like this is a lot to deal with. Like her daughter was found dead regardless of like her I don't know what her involvement is up until this point, you know? And like now she's going through these charges and like we don't know the dynamic. We don't know anything yet. That's totally fair, but unfortunately the Siders case got me fucked up. Yeah. And I have zero empathy right now. Zero. no, I have no empathy for her, but like It's just I can understand where for her this is a very scary situation all around. Her husband has two attorneys, she doesn't have a single attorney, she doesn't know what she's doing. She's a lot younger than him, if you can tell in these pictures. I could tell. So but I just find it really funny that John's attorneys tried to get him bonded based on the fact that he has zero prior violent offenses. Wow. Because fun fact John previously faced two felony child abuse slash neglect cases in Virginia. He entered an Alfred plea in one of them, received deferred deposition and probation, and both cases were ultimately dismissed in February of 2026. So he doesn't have convictions from those cases, but they still exist and are pretty recent. Geordyn had a separate child related case earlier in 2026. One felony child abuse charge was reduced to a misdemeanor and placed on deferred deposition, and another felony charge was dismissed. Those cases were still part of her recent legal history when Saylor died, but I wanna make it really clear that these previous charges don't have anything to do with Saylor. But they're still important for the timeline of what happened to Saylor, because obviously It's good to know. It was also recent. This wasn't like years ago. This was literally in the past few months. And they do have another child. But I don't know who these charges are about. my gosh. Okay. Their next South Carolina court date is currently scheduled for November nineteenth, twenty twenty six. It's going to be a preliminary hearing. Okay. So we will definitely be keeping an eye on this and bringing updates as soon as they come out for it because this case I've been seeing everywhere. I've had so many people asking me about it. I've just I can't be on TikTok or Facebook without scrolling past this case. I haven't I have only seen the thing that you guys sent the other day. Yeah. And I didn't even read it 'cause you said you were doing this right now, what we're doing. Hello. Yeah. So I didn't even read it. I had no idea. I remember seeing when she went missing and they were looking for her. Okay. And I was like, okay. I'm watching, you know, the autism level, the all of that. And then when they found her, I was like, Okay. And then they arrested the parents and I went, Okay. Let's see here. I mean, okay, to be fair, you definitely showed me pictures. Yeah. If you guys are watching YouTube, you have seen the pictures now as well. I saw these pictures before we even started this. So almost instantly I felt suspicious of the parents. I think we all felt suspicious of them instantly. I it's just it's an instinct thing. I feel. Like genuinely I do. but like my mind has gone to a very dark place so far with what you're telling me, I think the majority consensus that's going around online right now and is being talked about is They cut her monitor off before they went on vacation near a body of water, knowing she's prone to eloping, knowing she likes water. Yeah. I'm not entirely sure if they necessarily did anything or just took their eyes off of her and let what happened happened. Yeah. Which in the same is is just as horrible. It is. But I I'm I because of the state of her body and what they're saying about there not being any physical trauma to her, I'm wondering if they just Let this happen. Okay, you know what? Fuck it, I'm gonna say it. So first and foremost, this is dark. 'Cause she had something wrapped around her ankle. Yeah? I mean it could have been from a boogie board. It could have been from like maybe like some floaties have that to where you can attach it to like it won't float away from you. I mean there's a number of water items that go to that. Because it's literally just a tether for a water like a water toy. It's not like Yeah, period. Or they could have used it to have her sink to the bottom of the lake. Yes, there is that too. That's where my mind went. I'm just saying. I know. I'm just saying. But like, because then that then answer like makes you start questioning if she did just walk away without them noticing, which is f ridiculous. They would have found her body easier. I think so, personally. Because with that as well, like if she just walked away, why would they have tried to push them from not going to that spot? Because then that means they knew where she that's where she was. Okay. I'm with you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I'm with you. So I just I don't think this was an accident at all. no, I don't think it was an accident regardless of how it looks. Period. Yeah. Like And obviously investigators don't think it's an accident either. Yeah. Clearly. but also like I'm not a parent. I don't give parenting advice to people 'cause I have no legs to stand on. But also at the same time, if you're gonna go on vacation with your family knowing your daughter is a flight risk, prone to water things like that, you're not gonna keep an eye on her and you're just gonna take her tracker off? Yeah, gonna take her tracker off and then go on vacation somewhere that's specifically for water. Yeah. A little suspicious. That's suspicious. That's weird. I'm just saying. Yeah. I don't buy it. I'm I'm so against humanity right now. Yeah. That like Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Ugh, we're talking about Barry right now, aren't we? The time has come. my gosh. Y'all, I will never, ever, ever get tired of saying this. Barry Morphew has once again been arrested. Just makes my little heart happy. It's a great day for America. Therefore the world. It is. Y'all, I cannot make up the stupid shit he does and says if I try. I I honestly I I could not make it up at this point. It kind of feels like he's just showing his guilt more and more personally. So for those of you who don't know, Barry Morphew is currently awaiting trial for the first degree murder of his wife Suzanne Morphew. He has pleaded not guilty and maintains his innocence. I've I've never seen someone stick to a story so much in their life. Mm-hmm. Barry had been had had been released on a three million dollar CERTI bond. And that bond came with some pretty significant restrictions. It was also paid for by his supporters. Please don't forget it was So he was supposed to stay at his home in southern Colorado and Alamos. Yeah. except for specific circumstances like court, meeting with his lawyer, going to approved work things, like work job sites, medical appointments. That's it. That that's it. That's all you can leave for, buddy. Does he have a does he have a tracker on? Does he have an Inco monitor? So he was supposed to be monitored by GPS twenty-four seven. Key keyword supposed to be. That's two words. Keywords supposed to be. But on August twenty sixth, Barry decided to take a little trip to DIA. For those of you don't live here, Denver International Airport, and he was supposedly picking up one of his daughters. While in Denver that evening, Barry was allegedly involved in a hit and run involving two vehicles. According to one of the drivers, Barry was driving aggressively before hitting two vehicles. And luckily for us, someone caught it all on camera. Not him hating the cars. I really wish they would have caught that part on camera. but we do have everything that happened afterwards. I will warn you before I play this. The lady who's recording is kind of annoying till the very end. She was yelling a lot. But we she's just being dramatic. This is just Barry in his true form. Every time I see a clip of Barry, it goes something like this. Okay, so I think my favorite part of this video is him trying to buff the front of the car out with his shirt and his his hand and and then she's like, Alright, I'm gonna call the cops and he promptly goes, Hm, cool. Bye. But it does feel good to hear somebody like cuss him out as he drives away on video. Yeah. Like girl was living my dream. I'm really surprised that he didn't actually hit that person. I I really thought he was going to. Yeah. Also, I wonder whose truck that is. Also, if you know what license plate that is, please let us know because I've been like I was zooming and I was trying to figure it out. One thing is is that they I think I have it in here later, but they they are trying to figure out if he was even driving his vehicle or somebody else's. So that's fun. Alright, so the lady who takes this video, obviously the one who gets her car hit by him, sends it to her mom or a friend, one of the two. And that person goes, do you know who that is? And she's like, No. And she's all that's Barry Morphew. Proceeds to explain who Barry Morphew is to her. She should have called you. The chick who took this video went above and beyond. Okay. She didn't send this video to the police. Obviously, she showed it to them at the accent scene. She didn't take it to prosecutors. She straight emailed the judge. And attach the video and pictures with a rundown of everything that happened. My queen. My queen. Like, I love the fact that she was like, nope, we are. Thank you. And this is where it gets interesting. Because the first thing the judge did was ask for Barry's GPS monitoring data to confirm his whereabouts and make sure this was him. Even though we have it on video, you still have to confirm in other ways. Yes. We have AI nowadays and we also have our Epstein look alike in Florida. Palm Beach Pete. Palm Beach Pete. Palm Beach Pete. Have you not seen Palm Beach Pete? it looks just like Jeffrey Epstein and like people call him Palm Beach and they'll like pop button next to the lights and he'll be like, Hey Jeff, and he'll like It's funny. my god. People look like each other, man. It happens. There's a literally websites out there that's like find my twin, things like that. Like But that shit is clear as day, Barry Morphew. I would bet my life on it. For sure. Straight up. Yeah. Alright. And so the company that tracks the GPS data and is supposed to be monitoring the people on GPS trackers who are especially out on criminal cases. Well, they initially refused to give the judge the GPS data. Are you allowed to refuse a judge? Yeah. No shit. Yeah. eventually they end up complying, and that's how we know that Barry went to DIA. And then after DIA, I like drove around to like some shopping centers and hotels or whatever, and then that's when the hit run happened. Yeah. So I need to make this clear real quick before we continue. Barry has not been charged for the hit and run at all. We just ca we just confined him to stricter GPS monitoring. He cannot go nowhere. Pretty much. So we're not talking about the charges for the hit and run. We're not there yet. It's a stepping stone. He got arrested for violating for violating the conditions of his bond. But the incident itself becomes a massive problem because of his three million dollar bond, like you said. Precisely. So that's when he ran like hints him running when they said, Okay, we're gonna call the cops. And since the judge was working on his GPS data, all she could do was order Barry to remain inside his home at all times, with no exceptions. While the court decided whether he had violated his release conditions. And I quote the judge. You cannot leave unless given permission. If you have a medical emergency, better call 911 to get an ambulance. Love her. By September 3rd, the prosecution had all the information they needed and they requested an arrest warrant, arguing that Barry had indeed violated the conditions of his release. Duh. No way. That same night about 9 11 p.m., Boulder County Sheriff's Deputies located Barry in Boulder County and arrested him on an outstanding Alamosa County warrant for failure to comply. Which is crazy. Why were you in Boulder, bud? For those of you who do not live in Colorado. Boulder is not where Barry lives. It's about four hours north of where he lives. He claims that he was there for work, but no job sites in Boulder have been verified yet. And not that it would matter, because on the third, he was confined to the house and not allowed to go anywhere under any circumstances. At all. That's crazy. So even if he did have a job site up there, he still wasn't allowed to be there. Crazy. Say it with me. We love dumb criminals. We love them. What a fucking idiot. Just to put this in perspective. Yeah. This man is already facing a first degree murder charge in the death of his wife. He was out on jail on a three million dollar bond with GPS monitoring and restrictions on where he can go. Uh-huh. And he is still dumb enough to drive like an idiot, hit two cars, and try to sweet talk his way out of it. Then he decides to ignore additional GPS restrictions put on him and thinks he's smart enough to get away with it. Yeah. This is why he's my favorite dumb criminal. I hate to say it though, but like our justice system has essentially allowed him to get away with all of this for so long though that he feels untouchable. Yes. Because they're letting him be untouchable. I just truly thinks he thinks he is smarter than everyone, or he's just a narcissist who thinks he can do whatever he wants. That's you. I agree. Period. But like I just the best part about this is is that he didn't cut his monitor off. He was still wearing his GPS monitor. He knew he could not go there and he did it anyway. Like the thing is though, like what has he been doing since he's been out on bond? Just like out and about and he hasn't gotten in trouble for any of it. I don't know. And that's the same way that's Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like clearly there needs to be some type of like regulations put into place with GPS monitoring companies. Because clearly they don't give a fuck. I wanna go work for one of these companies. I wanna monitor them. Please. I would love to do nothing more than to watch Barry like pace around in his house. Period. Let me. Let me do it. She really likes GPS monitoring. I'm not gonna lie to you. Life three sixty is beautiful. No, I gave my mother Life three sixty and she tracks me too much. Okay, hear me out. The GPS monitoring companies need to team up with Life three sixty and then therefore we can put the little zones on the places that they live and they're not supposed to leave and then it gives you a notification when they leave it. I mean that technology should already be implemented in this, but it might be and they just don't care. They probably have like teeny boppers working there and they just don't care. I need to work there. I care a lot. Like it it's Can I give y'all a list of the ones I want to track? Who needs flock cameras when I could do this? Period. You guys want everything to be regulated better? Let her work there. Anyway, that is where we are on Barry Morphew right now. Like I said, I'm just over the moon that he is back in jail where he belongs and hopefully where he will stay until trial. Period. Barry is scheduled to have a hearing regarding his new $3 million cash bond on September 8th, 2026, at 1 30 p.m. And that will have already happened by the time you hear this. But we'll make a post about it. We will. I'm if anything major happens, I'll plug it in here. JusticeFor: Now, prosecutors say they requested more detailed GPS data and found Morphew violated those bond terms repeatedly even after the hit and run happened, with data from his ankle monitor showing he made trips to restaurants, hotels, grocery stores, trailheads, and even the airport in late August. They argue his ability to go to the airport unchecked makes him a huge flight risk, while his defense team argues he maintains his innocence and is not a flight risk. With an indictment for first degree murder sitting on all of our desks, he's walking around doing whatever he wants in violation of the court's bond commissions. That has to be acknowledged not as just a singular bond violation, but as a pattern of conduct with no respect for the court's the conditions the court has set to ensure that he's here for trial. But this case has been going on for six years and Mr. Morphew still here. I mean he is all over the internet. Everybody knows what his face looks like. Everybody knows his name. I mean there's no fleeing for him. He wants his day in court. He wants this to be over. So there's zero motivation for him to flee. I don't believe he's a flight risk. In the end, the judge sided with the prosecution, increasing Morphew's bond from that $3 million assurety bond to $10 million cash only. That means Morphew will have to come up with that money in cash to get back out on bond before the trial. Something he likely doesn't have considering he qualified financially for court-appointed attorneys who are paid for by the state. justice for: But like I need to go back to something I just said. It's a cash bond. Yeah. That means last time his supporters only had to put up three hundred thousand dollars to get him out. This time they have to have cash. Not assets, not properties, cold hard cash. Stop giving him bonds. I'm g well, they have to. They can't hold him without bond. Why the fuck not? Because it's not He violated his bond. Stop giving him bonds. I don't give a shit. He's gonna violate but it's unlawful only if he can get out on it. So I'm not holding my breath, but I am crossing my fingers because this man seems to always get out of jail somehow. That's what I'm fucking saying. There is a n status conference also scheduled for September seventeenth, and that's gonna be at one PM and it's gonna be a virtual appearance. I don't know if they're streaming that one or not, but I know as Bond Hearing will be streamed. Those are always streamed. Hey guess what? The next time we're recording is the nineteenth. so I I'll probably plug that in something somewhere. Knowing her, she loves talking about. I do. I will I will find any way to bring him up. I know. I just I'm I'm like caddy mean girls. I'm just I I will bring her up any chance I get. I understand. Your Barry Morphew is my Chris Watts. It is. Alright. Are we ready to finally talk about it with yes. I mean they've been asking forever. I know, and I've talked to the people that have come up to me, but like it is wild to me. The separation. we're gonna talk about that. my god. So now that y'all are confused, I hope you're screaming if you know what we're talking about. We finally, finally have to talk about Lindsay Clancy. Lindsey Clancy and the deliberations. I'm not talking about the case. I am talking strictly about the deliberations and what happened after. So, because that's really important right now, and that could be an entire episode in itself. Trial and deliberations. my gosh. The one episode that we were planning on doing for this has now probably been turned into a series. Yeah, hers is definitely gonna be a two parter. There's no way it can't. Netflix is literally salivating. They are. Right now. After nearly six weeks of testimony, this case ultimately came down to twelve people sitting in a room trying to answer one enormous question. Was Lindsay Clancy criminally responsible for killing her three children? The jury wasn't simply deciding guilty or not guilty. Because the defense had already stipulated to the fact that she killed the kids. The ultimate question was, is she legally responsible? Meaning, was she suffering from mental impairment at the time of the murders? Not if she was in psychosis leading up to it or after. Literally during the commission of the murders. And I really feel like that piece is getting lost within the general public. Yes. Us in the true crime world, we know this. We know what this deliberation and this trial was about. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of people who are very unaware that this is not a simple guilty versus not guilty verdict that we're looking after. Yeah. The jury had three separate verdict slips: one for Cora, one for Dawson, and one for Callan. And on each slip, they had five possible outcomes: first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, not guilty, or not guilty by reason of lack of criminal responsibility. The judge's instructions were also incredibly important here. Lindsay's defense didn't have to prove that she was psychotic or prove that she was not criminally responsible. The burden was on the Commonwealth to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she was criminally responsible. Side note, in Massachusetts, the burden of proof isn't just on the Commonwealth for the murders, but also they have to prove her mental stability at the time of the crime. Usually the defense has to prove that she was in psychosis, but not in Massachusetts, and that's very uncommon. Like it's very uncommon for the Commonwealth to also have to prove that. Generally that's on the defense. Just for clarification, in case you are not into the criminal world, trial world. Commonwealth is the prosecution. Sorry. You're good. Just for clarification. There are certain states where it's the Commonwealth, not the prosecution. Thank you for clarifying that. You're welcome. The jury was also told that they could consider Lindsay's mental condition and the effects of her medication when deciding whether she was capable of forming the intent or premeditation necessary for the murder. So on august twenty seventh, the jury was sent out to deliberate. They worked for about three and a half hours that first afternoon. Yeah. On August twenty eighth, they asked to see two pieces of evidence. they wanted Lindsay's prescription medication bottles and the knife. Uhhuh. We still have no idea what that was about. They just wanted to see it. Which I like that. I like a jury who wants to see additional evidence. She's asking questions. I I like a jury. I like a jury that asks questions. I do. I also like a jury that comes back as guilty really fast too. Not on this specific case. Not this meaning in general. And then they went back to work. Day after day they kept deliberating. No verdict, no big announcement. Yeah. Then came September first. Yeah. The jury sent Judge Sullivan a note saying they were unable to reach a unanimous decision. They were deadlocked. But the judge didn't give up on them and he sent him back. And they kept deliberating for several more hours before going home for the day. The next day, September second, it happened again. Another note, another deadlock. This time, Judge Sullivan gave them what is known as a Tui Rodriguez instruction. Sometimes it's called a dynamite charge or an Allen charge. If you watch the Karen Read trial, you are familiar with this. Essentially under this charge, the judge can only send a deadlocked jury back to deliberate further twice. Upon the third notice of a deadlocked jury, the judge must then declare a mistrial in the state of Massachusetts. Which I think is dumb and sort of a jury loophole if they know about it. Which I know was speculation in the first trial for Karen Reed, mm-hmm, like the first jury. But this jury definitely did not know about this and it became very clear. Because had they known about it, they never would have gone home that day and deliberated again on the third. Huh. They would have just like on the third, they would have just come back and you know what I mean? Like if they would have known about this, they would have just deadlocked themselves again and called it a day. Mm-hmm. So I'm I'm kind of actually proud of this jury for not knowing that. Mm-hmm. Maybe there was just some really strong willed people in this jury. True. After the second deadlock, the judge basically told the jury to go back and reconsider their positions. Listen to the other jurors and make a good faith effort to reach an agreement. But he also reminded them that they shouldn't abandon a sincerely held belief just because they wanted to reach a verdict. Mm-hmm. So they went back. And then September third happened. Yep. According to Lindsay's attorney Kevin Reddington, the jury four person reported that one juror was refusing to follow the judge's instructions about reasonable doubt. this got so interesting. This is the day that sidebars ended because Kevin Reddington filed a motion that everything be played out in the public court. Yeah. This is this is the moment where we had Kevin yelling. The judge was yelling back at Kevin. Kevin the judge handed Kevin papers and he threw them back at the judge. I mean, at one point Kevin comes storming over to Lindsay. They are forehead to forehead and he is talking sternly to her. And then he promptly wheels her up to the sidebar. Yep. Which is brand new. That never happened. Sidebar. And we couldn't figure out why he was so heated and all of this until one analyst suggested maybe the jury would like to see Lindsay's neck and wrists. Yeah. The injuries, the scars that are left over. And I went, Well, that would piss Reddington off a lot. That would make him pull Lindsay to sidebar. And honestly. It makes sense. We thought that was such a good speculation by this analyst that we thought that's what was happening. Yeah, for sure. Genuinely we thought that was happening. The thing is though, like if I was on that jury, I would have wanted to see that too. Yeah, and I never even thought about that until they brought it up. No, same. but it turns out Reddington just really wanted that juror removed. Not because he wasn't agreeing with the other jurors, it was because he was bluntly ignoring the judge's instructions and in turn the law about reasonable doubt. Yep. The prosecution objected to this saying the reasoning wasn't good enough to remove the juror. And Judge Sullivan questioned the jurors one by one, and they all said that they could follow his instructions. So the judge refused to remove anyone. I also let me stress really quick, you don't we didn't know which juror it was. They did not know which juror it was. No. So they couldn't like bring that specific juror out and what the fuck is your problem? Like they had to bring every single individual one out. They brought them in one by one. Yep. They each went to sidebar. The judge asked a couple questions and then they went and sat down in the gallery. And so one by one that just happened. It was revealed after the jury went back to their deliberations this time that the jury was split eleven to one. And remember, a juror is allowed to disagree. That's that's literally part of the reason we have juries. But the way the foreman wared the letter and the way the judge gave instructions multiple times about reasonable doubt and what that means, essentially reiterating that if there is any reasonable doubt, it's an acquittal or another charge. The major take was that was being reported is that a juror recognizes there is reasonable doubt, but he wants the guilty verdict no matter what. Leading analysts to assume that the split was eleven not guilty to one guilty. Yeah. After we find out about this eleven one split, the wonder just not listening. And and it's not like not listening to the other ones and not wanting to give up your position inside with them. It literally sounds like he has reasonable doubt, but he wants her guilty anyway. Yeah. You can't do that. You can't you can't just decide they're guilty anyway, but also have reasonable doubt about it. Like you can, but that means that they're not guilty. Really quick. Are we sure it was a dude? Yes. Okay. I wasn't sure. It's come out. Reddington and the judge accidentally let pronouns slip. So the jury deliberated for the rest of the day on Thursday, which I was shocked about. By the way, guys, the jury was nine women, three men. You're welcome. I was really surprised they went back and deliberated for the rest of Thursday. I thought we were getting something at close to court on Thursday. Yeah. So they come back Friday, September fourth, and after seven days and roughly thirty eight hours of deliberation, they still could not come to a verdict. Everybody was back in the courtroom and Judge Sullivan was prepared to declare a mistrial. But Kevin Reddington was not ready to let that happen. Reddington believed this wasn't simply a disagreement over the evidence. He believed this juror was refusing to apply the law, and that's when things got intense. He made one last attempt to stop it. A Hail Mary, if you will. He asked the judge to give him time to take the issue to the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court. So actually, really quick, I'm gonna interrupt you. Before he this part happened, he was like, I wanna know all the charges, what everyone's saying for each charge. Cause do you not remember that? Cause he was like, if it's one specific charge. that this person is saying she's guilty on and the other ones are saying not guilty. I wanna go down each charge and see if they if all of feel the exact same way about each charge. No, I did not hear that. yeah. Okay. And prosecution was like, No, we can't do that and judge agreed. I'm wondering if it was because like that's generally where it comes into like polling the jury afterwards and you have to declare and do everything. So well that's where he was coming in with the double jeopardy part. He was hoping for that because he was hoping that like if they all agreed not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, but guilty, then those not guilty ones, if and when the mistrial happens in a new trial happens. Yeah, they can't charge on those countries. And that's what double jeopardy is. Yeah. So he was really pressing for that and I was I was praying that we were gonna get that I wanted it so bad. Sorry, please No that makes sense. No that makes sense. So please continue Okay, so as the judge was getting ready to call the mistrial, Kevin Reddington asked the judge to give him time to take the issue of the mistrial to the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, arguing that the apparent holdout juror was preventing Lindsay from receiving a verdict. A fair verdict. And Judge Sullivan gave him one hour, which ended up turning into two hours because the court lunch break was at the end of that hour, and they have to take that. And I have actually never seen this happen before. the Commonwealth and the Defense got on a Zoom appearance with the on-call Supreme Court Justice, which I didn't know there was on call Supreme Court Justices, but there was. I mean it kind of makes sense. Especially since it was an emergency. Yeah. Hold on, there was a line, you guys. There was a line between Reddington and the judge that the judge or Reddington was like, then come back and deliberate tomorrow and he was like, on Saturday, he's like, Yeah the Commonwealth and Defense got on a Zoom appearance with the on-call Supreme Court justice, And she heard their argument that this wasn't just about a difference of opinion. It was about a juror not following the law and the judge's instructions. Correct. And this was definitely a long shot. Everybody was saying he had like a zero percent chance of this actually happening. But the way I don't know, 'cause I I watched this part. I only I only tuned in for like the big things that were happening. And I watched this part and the way the Supreme like I don't know, maybe I just have a very biased opinion on this, but I was like, she's totally gonna side with them. I thought she was gonna side with them too. And honestly, I wasn't understanding why it was such a zero percent chance because it seemed pretty clear to me that this was not about the fact that he just thought she was guilty. This was about the fact that this four-person believes that he is ignoring the reasonable that he has stated reasonable doubt and is now ignoring it. Yeah. And so I don't understand why this wasn't uphold because clearly he It's violating. But he is going beyond he has admitted to having reasonable doubt. Yeah. And it's just like, I don't this is where I kind of feel like jury deliberation should be recorded. Yeah. So that in a case like this, you can go in and look at it and be like, did he ever in his deliberation say this? Yeah. Or did he say is or is there a specific part where he's like, Yeah, I have doubt here, but I still think she's guilty. I'm not saying this is that quote, we don't know exactly what was being said, but this is what he was quoting. He was trying to have a twelve angry men moment and it didn't fucking work in his favor. Yeah. But he's still violating the law. Yes. But ultimately the Supreme Court denied the defense's motion. And it was also really smart that Reddington was not the one presenting this to the Supreme Court judge. And then Judge Sullivan brought the jury back into the courtroom and officially declared a mistrial. Immediately, Reddington indicated that he intends to file a Rule twenty five B two motion. for a required finding of not guilty along with a request for reconsideration. Reddington is essentially asking Judge Sullivan that even though the jury couldn't reach a unanimous verdict, the evidence presented at trial wasn't legally sufficient to support a conviction. So the judge should enter a finding of not guilty rather than allowing the case to go forward. Mm-hmm. Fair. Yeah. I mean honestly I agree with him. I agree as well. And this is just very different from asking the judge to overturn a guilty verdict since there wasn't a guilty verdict here. It was a hung jury of eleven to one. And it declared mistrial. So I mean honestly, like this motion's still pretty good in here. I agree. And I just really enjoy that this whole time and at the end the defense has been calling out the Commonwealth for not proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt. And so Lindsay's case shouldn't be put through Lindsay shouldn't be put through a second trial because they have not proved their case at all. No. I know Reddington was tr doing everything he could to try to not get a mistrial because he was like, I kicked their ass. Yeah, he didn't want a mistrial. Like and you know Everybody like, but he called for one in the middle. You have as a defense, you have to call for a mistrial. Because if you don't you you're not legally representing your client properly. Like well. Like they have to do it or else you fucked up the case basically. There's also things happening within trial that could cause for a mistrial. This is a completely different situation. Yeah. So what happens now is the entire case starts a new chapter because a mistrial is not an acquittal. The charges don't disappear. But it is up to the prosecution to decide whether to try Lindsay again or not. Yeah. Kevin Reddington said that he would retry the case as soon as next week if a if needed. And like I love the man's confidence. I love him. I mean, which isn't gonna happen, but we do know what is happening immediately next. Mm-hmm. Lindsey Clancy is scheduled back in Plymouth Superior Court on Tuesday, September twenty ninth at nine AM. that hearing is essentially going to be about what happens next. they're gonna have a ruling on the twenty five B two motion and whether or not that motion succeeds or denies also plays out for the rest of this. they're gonna have the status of the criminal case following the mistrial, so whether or not they're going to charge her again. Or not charge her again, but like where we're going to now, whether they're going to retry her, and that will lead to the scheduling of either the new trial or whatever the judge decides to happen. No. So the motion has to be filed within five days of the mistrial being which he filed. Which she did. And so this hearing is basically to address this motion. So if his motion gets denied, we go and the prosecution decides we're retrying, we start to get on that path of scheduling preliminaries and hearings and all of that. If the judge doesn't deny his motion and he changes it and does a not guilty verdict, then we go into sentencing. Or not sentencing 'cause we don't have it, but we go into what happens after that. I in my body I feel they're gonna offer a plea deal. If the Commonwealth was smart and had analysts watching trial live during the six weeks, they will offer her a plea deal and not go through this again. Yeah. That is just my personal opinion. And then I hope Raddington tells her, Do not fucking take this plea deal. We're going back to trial. She'll take the plea deal. She'll take the plea deal. She won't go through this again. Yeah. Unless Reddington can has already hopefully convinced her with all the evidence. I saw her face change throughout this entire trial. It did. I just I just don't know which valid. I yes. Opinions aside, obviously we're very opinionated about this entire thing. We're on the same wavelength here. It's just interesting. I just don't know if I want to sit those trial in. Yeah. I'll sit through this one the next one. So just remember, September 29th is just a status hearing for the next chapters getting decided. It's not the beginning of a retrial. And usually when you get a retrial, nothing changes. All the evidence is the same, and so are the arguments. But I don't know if that's gonna be the case here. Even though both parties say their case won't change, a lot came out during this trial and there was a lot that didn't add up. Then on top of the fact that one of the Commonwealth star witnesses resigned from his job right after his testimony, I say resigned in quotes, because it was immediate. He didn't take a couple weeks to finish seeing patients or refer them to some or refer them anywhere else himself. They were just notified by portal. So interpret that as you will. Yeah. And I'm not going to get into all of this. in this episode because we would be here for eight hours. But there were a lot of two plus two equals five. Yeah. In this trial. Not to mention the insane divide that is happening online in this case. I have never seen a trial divide like this. my gosh. I can't even with the stupidity that this trial has caused online. The one thing is for sure, we need to have basic law classes in high school. For sure. Not high when not even college. We need to have basic like can I get a class on the constitution and laws and how and how our court system works that's actually paid attention to because the amount of people who are unaware that this this is not about did she kill her kids or did she not kill her kids. It's literally about her s mental capacity at the time of the murders. Mm-hmm. Did this trial reveal some very large holes in an investigation that we thought was tidy with a bow? Yes, yes it did. Did this trial Bring out Mm, I don't know how to phrase that. I don't know how to phrase that. I I can personally tell you that this specific trial has opened my eyes to lot of people in my world. And has brought my misandry out even further. Let me make something clear. Yeah. Women are not supporting Lindsay Clancy. Because we don't think women can't kill their children or couldn't be capable of this. Yes. Because nobody is supporting Casey Anthony. Fuck no. Nobody is supporting Susan Smith. Period. Nobody is supporting Kimberly Singler. Nope. Okay. But you wanna know. People we do support. Andrea Yates, who is a very mirrored case to Lindsay Clancy. And at the time she was not supported the way Lindsay is supported now, but that's on growth for mental health. Yes, justice for these babies need to be served. But at the same time, this trial has shed a very, very large light on mental health for women and postpartum not even just postpartum, but in general. Correct. It has shed a light on the exact reason that women don't say some of these thoughts that they're having, because the way that men have reacted online in this case, there are countless every day I read at least two or three new headlines of men trying to use the Lindsey Clancy case to get custody of their kids to deem their ex wives, their mother of their children unfit. And that's not what this is about. There's it's this case has opened the eyes into what is actually happening in our mental health system, how it's not connected, how providers do not talk to each other. It is a very large breakdown that I'm glad the focus is getting on, but the way the general public has just overshot what the focus of this case should be, and that at the end of the day is mental health. You guys, I literally sent her a picture of someone comparing Lindsay Clancy to Jeffrey Dahmer. What the fuck are you talking about? These are completely different planes. Like completely fucking different. It's it is absolutely insane how Somebody who was begging for help and trying to get help is being turned into a monster. Yes. Because they didn't get help the way that you are supposed to the way that somebody else teams you're supposed to get help. She wasn't acting the way that somebody was supposed to be acting in psychosis. And we saw that with the Sidney Powell case. Her lead up to her psychosis was all considered manipulation. And what's a very big word that was used in Lindsay's trial? Manipulation. Yeah. And so just because she's not running around half naked with her hair crazy and no makeup and a knife and threatening to kill everybody. Doesn't mean she wasn't in psychosis. Correct. Doesn't mean Sydney wasn't in psychosis. I just This case has gotten so distorted and turned into something completely different. Yes. And that's why we haven't done this episode yet. That's why we haven't done this episode during trial. This is why it's gonna take a second. This is why it's gonna be a two, maybe three parter episode, because trial alone is a whole part. And there's just a lot to it. Absolutely there is. Absolutely there is. And like regardless of how each person feels individually about this, what you genuinely believe happens. Regardless of all of that, there's still three babies that lost their lives that deserve justice. And no one's ignoring that. No one is forgetting about that. No one is excusing that. It kind of feels like it's being forgotten about a little bit though. It does. It does feel like that. And I think that's because there's such a dividend argument about her specifically that those babies are getting lost. Because you can't say you support Lindsay and also say you want justice for the babies because you get eaten alive. Correct. You you the the stance is so vividly on each side it makes it hard that that is where they're getting lost. Yeah. It's just it's very, very complicated. It's so complicated. And I just you know, I hate to be this Debbie Downer, but like we d We are still years, if not decades, eons away from anyone actually giving a shit about women and their mental health. Genuinely. Especially after they have a kid. Like postpartum is being talked about more because women are making it such. But even then it's I mean we learned it it barely even has a blurb in the national indexes, yeah, international indexes of mental health and and diseases and things. It has a blurb. It doesn't even have its own section. It has a paragraph. And I I again I don't wanna shit on the men at all because like there's not a lot of studies for men's mental health either. It's just like mental health as a whole is like it's slowly starting to be dug through. But people need to stop like what's what am I what am I trying to say here? Like people need to stop being putting it into boxes. Like it there it's they're trying to make mental illness like a physical ailment. Okay, your leg is broken. I see your leg is broken. I have an x ray. Your leg is gonna fix it. I know that I can see that. But with mental illness you you're not feeling what's in their body. You're not in their head that you can't see it. So it's harder for you to be like Yeah. And the thing is like no one has Like her and I are completely fucking different in our heads. Completely fucking different. Like, yeah, there's moments that you guys hear all the time that we say the same thing or whatnot, but like we have completely different ideas. She's a type A person. Me, I forget fucking everything. Like I I don't plan shit, she does. Like, thank God for her. Like it's just that we're completely different people because our brains are completely different. Every no one has the same brain as another person. And so that's what makes studying mental health so fucking difficult. Genuinely for everyone. Everyone. Yeah. And it's it yeah. So it's it's a whole thing and there's a lot that comes with it. And while we love the conspiracy theories and we love to discuss conspiracy theories around everything, I am going to warn you before we do this deep dive, we will not be getting into that. No. It will not be a part of it. It won't, it's You want to talk to us about that, talk to about it in person. We will but when we do the deep dive on Lindsay, it will be factual because that is what is important. There is way too much misinformation going around online. If I cannot confirm it with a court record, a marriage record, a property record, a property record, I will not be talking about it. Because there is some wild shit going on out there. My God, it's fucking insane. So on that note, I'll quit yelling at you guys, I'm sorry. I'm not that's all I have for y'all today. Period. Good things are happening. They are. we have lots of good stuff coming for you guys. We have a great deep dive coming on Tuesday. Mm-hmm. and we don't know what's coming after that. We're gonna plan that. Make sure that you are liked, follow, subscribed everywhere. YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Spotify, Apple, Audible, iHeartRadio, all of it. Other places that we don't know about. Yes. our next live show is at Painting with a Twist on October 30th. It's a costume party, y'all. We are figuring out our costumes. They're gonna be amazing. yeah. It is at 7 p.m. it's gonna take you guys about get there about twenty, thirty minutes early as normal, about six yeah, because you have to choose your like scents and whatnot. And it has like you're in a small little corner with the scents with forty five. Yeah, so they're gonna rotate you guys through. It's gonna take about thirty minutes for you to make your candles. And then after that, while they're curing, you get to hang out with us and drink and talk some true crime and it's just gonna be a great time. Yeah. So anything else you've got? Ugh No, my brain is fried. All right. With that, you guys, we will catch you on Tuesday with an all-new deep dive episode. Stop killing each other. Lock your damn doors. Stop leaving your fucking friends. Okay, love you. Bye.