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Overcoming Hurdles with Olympic Heptathlete Chari Hawkins · Mind Over Mountain

0:09
Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Welcome to mind Over Mountain with me Cheryl Strade.
0:12
Speaker 2: This week my guest is Shari Hawkins.
0:14
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, at the US Track and Field Championships,
0:18
Speaker 1: Shari won gold in the pentathlon, and in twenty twenty
0:21
Speaker 1: four she was a member of the US Olympic team
0:23
Speaker 1: in Paris, where she competed in the heptathlon. In my
0:27
Speaker 1: conversation with Shari, we talk about her lowest moment when
0:30
Speaker 1: she decided to reach for help. Many of her triumphs
0:34
Speaker 1: also about courage, resilience, and the healing magic of taking
0:38
Speaker 1: a deep breath. Let's listen to our conversation. Shari Hawkins,
0:42
Speaker 1: Welcome to mind Over Mountain.
0:44
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me here.
0:47
Speaker 3: I'm so excited. This is going to be so fun.
0:49
Speaker 2: It is going to be fun.
0:50
Speaker 1: I mean, you have had this long career in track
0:54
Speaker 1: as a heptathlete.
0:56
Speaker 2: Did I say that word right? That's a tongue twister,
0:58
Speaker 2: isn't it.
0:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, it can be, yeah, heps athlete. You kind of
1:01
Speaker 3: have to first, you have to do two words, and
1:04
Speaker 3: then you have to find a way to mesh them
1:06
Speaker 3: together so it doesn't sound like you're spilling it over weirdly.
1:09
Speaker 3: So it's yeah, HEP seven hept and then athlete, heptathlete.
1:14
Speaker 2: Hept heptathletic.
1:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a tongue twister, but I'm gonna guess that
1:18
Speaker 1: it's harder to do physically than it is linguistically.
1:22
Speaker 2: It takes a little more effort.
1:25
Speaker 3: Yeah. The great part about the heptaphon is for me specifically,
1:30
Speaker 3: a lot of people give me so much credit for
1:33
Speaker 3: working out nine hours a day and they're like, wow,
1:37
Speaker 3: like I could never do that, And then I'm like,
1:39
Speaker 3: you know when you were a kid at recess, that's
1:43
Speaker 3: all I do. So it's not like I think a
1:45
Speaker 3: lot of people think I'm running for nine hours a
1:48
Speaker 3: day and just like working my body. No, it's it's
1:51
Speaker 3: so much more than that. It's learning how to do
1:53
Speaker 3: the monkey bars and then learning how to go and
1:55
Speaker 3: do the tire swing, and then like you just get
1:58
Speaker 3: to go go like play in the playground. But that
2:01
Speaker 3: is track and field. It's seven events hurdles, high jump,
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Speaker 3: shot put, two hundred, long jump, javelin, and the eight hundred.
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Speaker 3: And yes there is some running in there, and yes
2:12
Speaker 3: the eight hundred might be the worst one that you
2:14
Speaker 3: have to run. But at the end of the day,
2:16
Speaker 3: like it is such a fun mental game and physical
2:20
Speaker 3: game for sure, And I mean I love it. I
2:23
Speaker 3: love that I love this sports so much.
2:26
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, I'm going to guess this is you know,
2:29
Speaker 1: in your long career, all of these achievements take so
2:33
Speaker 1: much time to build on, right you know, you're you know,
2:37
Speaker 1: one competition teaches you something, whether you lose or win.
2:40
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the things that I've
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Speaker 1: been the most move by when I think about your career, sorry,
2:46
Speaker 1: at least so far, is how much you have been
2:50
Speaker 1: an athlete who's willing to share that story of.
2:53
Speaker 2: The struggle as well as the victories.
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Speaker 1: And I just want to read this quote that I
2:58
Speaker 1: heard you say that I really it's like such a
3:01
Speaker 1: wonderful I think way to approach sport in life.
3:04
Speaker 2: We never know how strong we are.
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Speaker 1: Until we're pushed to the point where we want to
3:08
Speaker 1: give up and we choose to fight instead.
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Speaker 2: So I love that. Can you tell me about a
3:14
Speaker 2: time along your journey.
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Speaker 1: I'm sure there have been a million where you've been
3:18
Speaker 1: at that moment.
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Speaker 3: I think that the cool part about sport is that
3:21
Speaker 3: it relates to life so much because yeah, I've been
3:23
Speaker 3: so up and down in sport, so many wins and
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Speaker 3: so many not losses but learnings, a winning and a learning, right.
3:30
Speaker 3: But it's the same thing with life is we have
3:33
Speaker 3: these days that are just wow, like I figured life
3:36
Speaker 3: out and it's so great, it's so beautiful, and I
3:38
Speaker 3: want to share it with the world. And then we've
3:40
Speaker 3: had days where we're like, I hate it here actually,
3:45
Speaker 3: But then.
3:45
Speaker 2: Sometimes those things happen on the same day, right. I
3:49
Speaker 2: don't know about you, but I do. It's like sometimes
3:51
Speaker 2: you're up and you're down within a few.
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Speaker 3: Hours, Yes, And honestly, and I think the hard the
3:57
Speaker 3: hard part is we think there's something wrong with us
3:59
Speaker 3: in the moments, but really it's I'm gonna be I'm
4:03
Speaker 3: going to share just a tiny, little vulnerable moment. But
4:06
Speaker 3: when I didn't make the team in twenty twenty one,
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Speaker 3: I had a lot of like negative ideations about whether
4:13
Speaker 3: or not I should still be on the planet. And
4:16
Speaker 3: it didn't come through just missing the team, but it
4:20
Speaker 3: came through you know, all of the things that kind
4:23
Speaker 3: of went along with it. I think that my friends
4:26
Speaker 3: and family were trying to give me space and so
4:28
Speaker 3: all of them collectively stopped calling me, stopped texting me,
4:34
Speaker 3: tried and give me space. But really what happened is
4:37
Speaker 3: nobody was in my life anymore. All of a sudden,
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Speaker 3: I lost every I had seven sponsors that wanted to
4:45
Speaker 3: go with me to the Olympics going into the year,
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Speaker 3: and the moment that I didn't make the team, all
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Speaker 3: seven of them drop me. I had I had a
4:56
Speaker 3: sports medicine doctor that I had worked with for years
5:00
Speaker 3: and was also acting as my mental trainer and like
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Speaker 3: sports psych uh, and they told me that they were
5:07
Speaker 3: no longer interested in working with me because they wanted
5:11
Speaker 3: more of an Olympic caliber athlete on their roster.
5:14
Speaker 1: So in some ways, like what you're describing are your fears,
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Speaker 1: Like when you're not like that team, right, you think like, oh,
5:21
Speaker 1: people aren't going to like love me or value me
5:24
Speaker 1: is highly And then indeed, at least in some ways.
5:29
Speaker 2: You were right.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, all of the what I thought were irrational, irrational
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Speaker 3: fears became true and became real, and so I it
5:42
Speaker 3: was one of those things where it wasn't just about
5:47
Speaker 3: me not making a team, It was me realizing that,
5:50
Speaker 3: like what I had in my head at that time
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Speaker 3: what I had built. I had built myself around not
5:58
Speaker 3: Shari the person, but Shari the athlete, and that was
6:00
Speaker 3: the only thing that mattered. And now that I didn't
6:02
Speaker 3: have the Olympics behind me, I had nothing. So I mean,
6:10
Speaker 3: even in a moment like that, when I felt the
6:12
Speaker 3: lowest I could possibly feel, I remember I had that
6:16
Speaker 3: moment of snapping out of it and it was just
6:21
Speaker 3: I felt so I guess embarrassed, but I decided to
6:28
Speaker 3: call the suicide hotline because as embarrassed as I felt,
6:32
Speaker 3: that I had to be the person who was in
6:35
Speaker 3: the if category. If this happens, then call.
6:40
Speaker 2: I felt bad.
6:41
Speaker 3: I felt silly for being in the if category, but
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Speaker 3: I decided that I needed it because I didn't know
6:50
Speaker 3: what else to do. And there's like, there's this part
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Speaker 3: of me now that looks back on that with that
6:59
Speaker 3: girl who was seemingly at her weakest and was like,
7:04
Speaker 3: you are so cool for putting down your pride and
7:11
Speaker 3: putting down your shame for just a moment for you,
7:15
Speaker 3: Like you didn't do it for anybody else. Like in
7:17
Speaker 3: that moment, I wasn't thinking about the people who would
7:19
Speaker 3: miss me or I was. I was more just thinking
7:21
Speaker 3: about like the fact that, like, I know that there
7:25
Speaker 3: has to be something else, and that year we actually
7:29
Speaker 3: did lose a member of the track and filled community
7:33
Speaker 3: that didn't make the team to suicide.
7:35
Speaker 2: I think you're so right. Sorry, you know this.
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Speaker 1: There's this idea I think when we even call it
7:41
Speaker 1: like the bottom moment, right like that we're at our
7:44
Speaker 1: lowest in moments like the one you describe, and we
7:47
Speaker 1: think of that as being synonymous with being at our weakest.
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Speaker 2: But I always feel like, okay, that is.
7:54
Speaker 1: The moment of true courage and strength, the moment you
7:57
Speaker 1: decide as you did to save myself and I've been
8:01
Speaker 1: a raise for help, and it is only from that
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Speaker 1: bottom that we can rise, and shooting to rise, I
8:07
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know at a greater courage than that.
8:10
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the other thing that's cool too is
8:15
Speaker 3: when when we this this part's not cool, but when
8:18
Speaker 3: we did lose that athlete, there were we got on
8:22
Speaker 3: a call and everybody in my athletic community, they all
8:26
Speaker 3: got on like a big call and everybody was like
8:28
Speaker 3: if you, if you, if you, please please hear your resources,
8:31
Speaker 3: if if if and I did like a little raise
8:33
Speaker 3: my hand on the on the chat, and I just
8:39
Speaker 3: to all of my peers who are in like the
8:43
Speaker 3: best it the best of the world, right, who were
8:47
Speaker 3: all sitting there. I told them all. I said, hey,
8:50
Speaker 3: you guys, like, I just want to let you know
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Speaker 3: that I happened to have won this same battle not
8:56
Speaker 3: long ago. And when I say not long ago, two
8:59
Speaker 3: weeks ago, the same battle, I fast the same battle.
9:02
Speaker 3: And I was just like, and I just I want
9:06
Speaker 3: to let you guys know that can we change this
9:09
Speaker 3: from if to win? Because it doesn't. Why are we
9:14
Speaker 3: acting like it never happens to anybody? Because I think
9:18
Speaker 3: that this is a more common thought, like now, maybe
9:21
Speaker 3: more people win their battle with the ideations than others,
9:26
Speaker 3: and so we assume that it's uncommon. But mental health
9:34
Speaker 3: is fluctuating, and we have good days and we have
9:38
Speaker 3: bad days, and we have happy, we have sad, and
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Speaker 3: we have top of the world and we have bottom
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Speaker 3: of the barrel.
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's true everywhere, right, and among all kinds
9:46
Speaker 1: of professions. I'm curious about if you think in track
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Speaker 1: and field, especially that culture doesn't feel is there an
9:54
Speaker 1: extra level of shame when you're such a competitor and
9:58
Speaker 1: champion to admit that kind of vulnerability a need.
10:03
Speaker 3: In the moment, I don't think I cared about that,
10:07
Speaker 3: but like, yes, there was there was this like where
10:11
Speaker 3: I'm I'm I'm top of the podium, so obviously I'm better, Right,
10:15
Speaker 3: there's this energy around track and field, But in that
10:18
Speaker 3: moment I didn't really care. But the great thing about
10:22
Speaker 3: me willing to be vulnerable is I had twenty different
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Speaker 3: hands get raised or people in the comment saying right,
10:29
Speaker 3: I've had this battle too, thank you so much for hearing,
10:32
Speaker 3: like I'm going through it now, And it was It's
10:37
Speaker 3: so relieving and refreshing to be able to share things,
10:42
Speaker 3: like you know, you never know how strong you are
10:44
Speaker 3: until you are pushed to the point where you really
10:48
Speaker 3: want to quit and you choose to fight instead. And
10:52
Speaker 3: it's because it's a universal experience where people whether it's
10:56
Speaker 3: they want to quit their job, or they want to
10:58
Speaker 3: quit their sport, or they want to quit their hard
11:00
Speaker 3: thing that they're doing right now, however, whatever it is,
11:03
Speaker 3: it's something that we can all kind of relate to.
11:06
Speaker 1: For sure.
11:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's absolutely true.
11:10
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering you made that you lived through that
11:14
Speaker 1: moment you reached out for help, and of course shortly
11:17
Speaker 1: after that you did qualify for the Olympics and you
11:20
Speaker 1: went and competed, but it didn't go as you had
11:24
Speaker 1: hoped or planned.
11:26
Speaker 2: Tell us about that.
11:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, So in the heptathlon, basically it doesn't matter if
11:31
Speaker 3: you take first or second, or third or fourth in
11:34
Speaker 3: each of the seven events. It just matters how you score.
11:38
Speaker 3: So the higher you jump, the more points you score.
11:40
Speaker 3: The faster you run, the more points you score. And
11:43
Speaker 3: the second event is the high jump, which is actually
11:45
Speaker 3: my best event. Usually after the high jump and hurdles,
11:48
Speaker 3: I'm usually in the top two or three in the world.
11:52
Speaker 3: So the high jump is something that I am really
11:54
Speaker 3: good at getting points at. And there was a lot
11:57
Speaker 3: of things kind of outside of my control and it
12:00
Speaker 3: was a little chaotic and I did not handle that
12:03
Speaker 3: chaos very well. And I know hydath in this.
12:06
Speaker 1: Event, right, no height, it means you didn't clear the bar,
12:10
Speaker 1: three missed bars, any of the three attents, right.
12:13
Speaker 3: Yes, equals you're out of the high jump and you
12:15
Speaker 3: get zero points. So those zero points are going to
12:20
Speaker 3: matter because best case scenario, even if I got a
12:24
Speaker 3: personal best in every single event moving forward, I was
12:26
Speaker 3: going to get last at the Olympics. My dreams of
12:29
Speaker 3: getting a metal, my dreams of being on a podium,
12:32
Speaker 3: or even my dreams of just having an incredible meet,
12:35
Speaker 3: and we're ending on this like huge wind, We're kind
12:38
Speaker 3: of out the window.
12:39
Speaker 1: Wow.
12:40
Speaker 3: And for somebody who had been fighting for the Olympics
12:43
Speaker 3: for so long, it was just really extra devastating. I
12:47
Speaker 3: was pretty at a low. It was probably the maybe
12:52
Speaker 3: not the lowest I've been in my life because I
12:55
Speaker 3: shared kind of shared that moment, but it was maybe
12:57
Speaker 3: the lowest I've felt during a competition, and like the
13:01
Speaker 3: most I've really like let myself down, because even not
13:03
Speaker 3: making the Olympics, I still had a pretty decent meet
13:07
Speaker 3: that meat. Right, This was just truly for me. I
13:13
Speaker 3: was embarrassed, and I was ashamed, and I was confused,
13:16
Speaker 3: and I was angry at all these circumstances, and I
13:20
Speaker 3: was mad at myself for not being able to rise
13:22
Speaker 3: above them. And there was a lot of things that
13:25
Speaker 3: I had to make decisions on because a lot of times,
13:29
Speaker 3: when you know height, you just don't come back. You
13:31
Speaker 3: bow out and you go.
13:33
Speaker 2: But I have top.
13:34
Speaker 3: You also get the choice where you can come back
13:35
Speaker 3: and do the rest. Of the events, And ultimately I
13:40
Speaker 3: asked myself, like the girl who would have given anything
13:43
Speaker 3: to be on the team, what would she want you
13:45
Speaker 3: to do? The thirty people who came to Paris and
13:49
Speaker 3: bought tickets, and what would they want you to do?
13:52
Speaker 3: And especially like future you, like what would she what
13:56
Speaker 3: does she need from you right now? And not only
14:00
Speaker 3: did they need all of those people needed me to
14:02
Speaker 3: get back on that field, but they needed me to
14:04
Speaker 3: do it with the Olympic spirit, to have fun, and
14:07
Speaker 3: to do it with like my whole heart and with
14:10
Speaker 3: a good attitude and put my best foot forward even
14:12
Speaker 3: though I felt like I had nothing to.
14:14
Speaker 2: Give, And yet and you did that.
14:16
Speaker 1: I mean, I will say I think those are the
14:20
Speaker 1: stories that we most remember when we reflect on the Olympics. Right,
14:23
Speaker 1: It's not like it's not always who won the gold
14:26
Speaker 1: it's or who got to stand on the podium at all.
14:29
Speaker 1: It's like people who decided what you decided in that moment.
14:32
Speaker 1: And the reason I asked that question when I did,
14:35
Speaker 1: is that that I'm curious if you think that in
14:39
Speaker 1: some ways you know that decision you made, You're like, listen,
14:43
Speaker 1: I'm not going to I'm not going to get a medal,
14:46
Speaker 1: but I'm going to finish this work. I'm going to
14:48
Speaker 1: do all the rest of these events, even though you
14:50
Speaker 1: know it's going to hurt, it's going to be hard.
14:52
Speaker 1: If that decision was in some ways built on that
14:57
Speaker 1: that rock bottom moment you had when you were calling
14:59
Speaker 1: the suicide line and that journey you went through toward
15:03
Speaker 1: healing yourself, in some ways, it was like that vulnerability
15:08
Speaker 1: that reached for help, that allowed you to be strong,
15:11
Speaker 1: stronger a couple of years later when you needed to.
15:13
Speaker 3: Be Yeah, there was this. I gave a speech once
15:18
Speaker 3: where I went through every hurdle in my life, hurdle
15:23
Speaker 3: being the play on words of the one hundred hurdles
15:25
Speaker 3: that I do, and every hurdle that I went through
15:28
Speaker 3: in my career, whether it was getting the flu at
15:33
Speaker 3: World Championships in twenty twenty four, indoor, from not making
15:38
Speaker 3: the Olympics in twenty twenty one, from having full blown
15:41
Speaker 3: had I had debilitating anxiety all throughout college. I didn't
15:46
Speaker 3: go through one and one heptaphon without a panic attack,
15:50
Speaker 3: and I kind of went through all of my hurdles
15:54
Speaker 3: that I went through and that I had to kind
15:56
Speaker 3: of get back up after I tripped over this hurdle.
16:01
Speaker 3: I I then like really thought about it when I
16:05
Speaker 3: was like preparing this speech, and I kind of talked
16:07
Speaker 3: about how I wouldn't I don't know if I would
16:11
Speaker 3: have been able to go back out with such a
16:14
Speaker 3: headheld high, with such unique perspective and with it without
16:17
Speaker 3: being able to like do it with everything I did
16:20
Speaker 3: without all of those hurdles, because I had built up
16:23
Speaker 3: the muscle of resilience. Yeah, the moment I bored somebody, Yes,
16:28
Speaker 3: And I've I've heard somebody say that resilience is just
16:32
Speaker 3: your ability to get back to neutral so that you
16:34
Speaker 3: can make good decisions for your life. And it's a
16:37
Speaker 3: muscle that we can Actually I'm I'm not incredibly I'm
16:41
Speaker 3: not an incredibly resilient human. I just happened to have
16:47
Speaker 3: had I've had the opportunities to flex the muscle because
16:51
Speaker 3: I've been brave enough to put myself in those positions,
16:54
Speaker 3: and so I've had to get back up and the
16:57
Speaker 3: muscle has been strengthened. So now I've been become resilient.
17:01
Speaker 3: So for people who don't feel resilient, I hope you
17:04
Speaker 3: can take my advice by saying, like if you're willing
17:09
Speaker 3: to be brave enough so that you have to be resilient,
17:12
Speaker 3: because being resilient is really harward. But if you're brave
17:15
Speaker 3: enough to become to give you put yourself in a
17:18
Speaker 3: position where you have to be resilient the worst case scenario,
17:21
Speaker 3: you get the opportunity to strengthen that resilience muscle.
17:25
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
17:25
Speaker 1: And you know, I love your Instagram your like tagline
17:29
Speaker 1: is if I can do it, you can. I love
17:32
Speaker 1: that because I'm always saying this to people who are like, oh,
17:35
Speaker 1: you know I would never be brave enough to do this,
17:38
Speaker 1: that or the other thing, whether it be write a
17:39
Speaker 1: book or hike Alanna the wilderness or fill in the blank, right,
17:42
Speaker 1: And I'm always like that is, yes you are, because
17:46
Speaker 1: courageous people, brave people are not just like innately born
17:50
Speaker 1: that way. It is absolutely a muscle that we develop
17:54
Speaker 1: if we work it. And it is about just simply
17:57
Speaker 1: saying like, actually I'm terrified, but I'm going to do it.
18:08
Speaker 3: Do you know? What's I think is like so cool
18:10
Speaker 3: too is when you read Like when I read your
18:13
Speaker 3: story and like I learned that like not only did
18:15
Speaker 3: you do it, but you even did it like less
18:18
Speaker 3: prepared than you than you were supposed to. Yeah, you
18:20
Speaker 3: know what I mean. And the thing about it is
18:22
Speaker 3: for me, like as i've as I've grown, like in
18:25
Speaker 3: the twenty years of competition, I have everything down pat now,
18:30
Speaker 3: like I know exactly what it takes to make an
18:33
Speaker 3: Olympic team now, but I didn't know how to do
18:36
Speaker 3: that twenty years ago, you know what I mean. And
18:39
Speaker 3: there were there were competitions where I one time I
18:43
Speaker 3: went and I didn't eat the entire day because I
18:45
Speaker 3: was so nervous and I didn't force myself to eat.
18:47
Speaker 3: And it's an all day event. So oh no, I
18:50
Speaker 3: crashed and burned. Of course I did. But I as
18:54
Speaker 3: silly as that seems, like of course you should eat,
18:56
Speaker 3: But I was also a twenty year old child, right
18:59
Speaker 3: and realize Like in my head, I was like, oh,
19:02
Speaker 3: I'll be fine, and then I was like, oh, I
19:05
Speaker 3: won't be fine. That's not good. And now, even when
19:07
Speaker 3: I'm nervous, you you take ten, but ten choose and
19:11
Speaker 3: you swallow. That's what you have to do. And it's
19:14
Speaker 3: one of those things where like with you, like you
19:17
Speaker 3: were able to do the hard thing even you just
19:21
Speaker 3: did it, even if you felt like you weren't ready.
19:23
Speaker 3: Even if you weren't unprepared, that you learned on the job.
19:27
Speaker 3: And that's that's the true thing. That's so cool.
19:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you.
19:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm a super big advocate and believer of that.
19:34
Speaker 1: You know that you just like And the deal is is,
19:38
Speaker 1: even if you do try to prepare a lot of times,
19:40
Speaker 1: it's life that's going to teach you, right.
19:42
Speaker 2: You know. It's like you can like read up on it.
19:45
Speaker 1: And hear from other people and then you got to
19:47
Speaker 1: just like get out there and do it and feel
19:49
Speaker 1: how it feels, because it's going to feel differently for
19:52
Speaker 1: different people, and we're all going to have different challenges
19:55
Speaker 1: and we all have the capacity to face them. But sorry,
19:59
Speaker 1: before we could talk about this for like three years,
20:02
Speaker 1: because I can tell we're on the same wavelengths. But
20:05
Speaker 1: because we are on the subject, I would want to
20:07
Speaker 1: share this Dear Sugar letter with you right now because
20:10
Speaker 1: I have a feeling you're going to be an amazing
20:12
Speaker 1: source of advice for this young man who's written to me.
20:15
Speaker 2: Can I read you the letter?
20:16
Speaker 3: Of course? Yes. I'm so excited, Dear Sugar.
20:20
Speaker 1: This might sound ridiculous because I'm a full fledged adult
20:23
Speaker 1: man aged twenty seven, who should have all the self
20:25
Speaker 1: confidence it takes to do the things I want to do.
20:28
Speaker 1: But as of today, I'm still not that man because
20:31
Speaker 1: I'm too afraid. You have often encouraged people to go
20:34
Speaker 1: outside the comfort zone, and I can see that.
20:36
Speaker 2: I must do that.
20:38
Speaker 1: But my question to you is how you see I
20:41
Speaker 1: want to be an actor. I don't meet a movie star,
20:43
Speaker 1: though that would be nice. I simply want to take
20:46
Speaker 1: acting classes and perhaps someday audition for local productions. In
20:50
Speaker 1: high school, I was in the drama club and had
20:52
Speaker 1: a few roles in plays, And ever since that experience,
20:55
Speaker 1: there's a quiet voice inside me that says that acting
20:58
Speaker 1: is an interest I'd like to pursue. But I don't
21:01
Speaker 1: pursue it because I'm scared. Even thinking about doing exercises
21:05
Speaker 1: in a class of presumably supportive peers fills me with
21:08
Speaker 1: anxiety and sometimes even panic. It seems like I'm stuck here,
21:12
Speaker 1: afraid and confused about how to push myself past these.
21:14
Speaker 2: Feelings that keep me from acting.
21:16
Speaker 1: Literally, my boyfriend says things like just do it, but
21:20
Speaker 1: I don't find that to be helpful.
21:22
Speaker 2: Even when I try to just do it.
21:24
Speaker 1: I just don't what steps can I take to get
21:27
Speaker 1: beyond this intense feeling of hesitation and fear. It might
21:31
Speaker 1: seem small, but it feels big to me. Thank you, sugar,
21:34
Speaker 1: Signed anxious and afraid.
21:36
Speaker 3: O wait, yeah, no, I'm excited to I'm excited to
21:39
Speaker 3: like collaborate on this with you because I think for me,
21:44
Speaker 3: I like to think to put myself in his shoes,
21:49
Speaker 3: to say, how would I feel if I was like,
21:52
Speaker 3: I want to be a professional athlete, but I don't
21:54
Speaker 3: know where to start right, I don't know what and
21:57
Speaker 3: I'm scared I'm scared and do it wrong. I'm scared
21:59
Speaker 3: I'm going to be embarrassed or I'm not going to
22:01
Speaker 3: feel like good and like the only advice like I
22:07
Speaker 3: can give based on my own thing is because that
22:09
Speaker 3: was me when I was going from college to be
22:14
Speaker 3: a professional. This changed my life. Is I decided I
22:17
Speaker 3: wanted to do it, which is where he's at right now.
22:20
Speaker 3: He already did step one? Is he he decided he
22:22
Speaker 3: wanted to do it? Yeah, and he's kind of doing
22:26
Speaker 3: step two by just writing in in my mind absolutely,
22:29
Speaker 3: because the thing that I did when I wanted to
22:32
Speaker 3: go pro, I didn't know what it would look like.
22:35
Speaker 3: I didn't know what it. I didn't know what it was,
22:39
Speaker 3: and so I just started asking everyone, all of my coaches,
22:45
Speaker 3: all of anybody. I was like, do you know what
22:47
Speaker 3: it takes to be a professional athlete? Do you know?
22:50
Speaker 3: Like what should I do? I don't know what steps
22:52
Speaker 3: to take. Then finally I found a coach who was like,
22:56
Speaker 3: I have an idea, but I don't know because he
22:58
Speaker 3: didn't really know either. He's like, let me give you contact,
23:02
Speaker 3: and he had my He had my contact as somebody
23:08
Speaker 3: who could write my workouts, and he's like, and you
23:11
Speaker 3: can just train here. So I called the guy to
23:13
Speaker 3: see if you would write my workouts and he was like, no, no, no,
23:16
Speaker 3: you need to come here, and you need to join
23:18
Speaker 3: this track club. And this is how it worked, and
23:23
Speaker 3: that I would never if I would have wouldn't have asked,
23:26
Speaker 3: I would have never known that that's even the way
23:28
Speaker 3: it was. And so I moved to San Diego, Santa Barbara, California,
23:33
Speaker 3: and for two years I trained this track club and
23:36
Speaker 3: I learned from the from the inside. And that's the
23:40
Speaker 3: thing that's so cool is I loved what he said
23:42
Speaker 3: about acting classes. I think even just asking whether it's Google,
23:47
Speaker 3: or whether it's like Peers, or whether it's other people
23:51
Speaker 3: asking about acting classes and what is a good acting
23:55
Speaker 3: class in my area? And then ask your acting teacher, like,
23:59
Speaker 3: how do I get start in this? Because the first
24:02
Speaker 3: thing that you need when you're in the wilderness. This
24:05
Speaker 3: is what me and my sports I always talk about.
24:07
Speaker 3: When you feel lost and you know you want something,
24:10
Speaker 3: but you don't know where to start. You're in the wilderness.
24:12
Speaker 3: The first thing that you need is clarity of what
24:14
Speaker 3: you want. And it sounds like he has that and
24:17
Speaker 3: it's a plan, and sometimes you don't know what the
24:21
Speaker 3: plan is, but you can get people to help you
24:24
Speaker 3: create a plan for yourself. So I don't know what
24:27
Speaker 3: would you say?
24:27
Speaker 2: I love that? Well, I love both of those things.
24:30
Speaker 1: And I think what I'm going to say next is like,
24:32
Speaker 1: if we if we trust those two steps that you presented,
24:35
Speaker 1: which I would have said those same things, clarity, and
24:38
Speaker 1: I agree with you.
24:39
Speaker 2: You know.
24:40
Speaker 1: That this man is saying I want this this quiet
24:44
Speaker 1: voice which isn't really so quiet, you know, because it's insistent,
24:47
Speaker 1: and so it tells me he really needs to do this,
24:50
Speaker 1: and so take those first steps, which isn't doing the thing,
24:53
Speaker 1: but investigating the thing and sort of opening the door, right,
24:57
Speaker 1: and then what I think you're going to find when
24:59
Speaker 1: you get there. You know, every time I've been in
25:02
Speaker 1: this place anxious and afraid, what I found when I
25:05
Speaker 1: get there is I'm not alone there. So what I
25:08
Speaker 1: mean by that is, right now, I feel like he
25:11
Speaker 1: is saying, Okay, I'm on the other side. Like all
25:14
Speaker 1: those people, those who are those people are who are
25:17
Speaker 1: in acting classes or actors are doing this thing that
25:19
Speaker 1: I love, They don't feel the way I feel. And
25:23
Speaker 1: what I can tell you anxious and afraid. I'm actually
25:25
Speaker 1: friends with some movie stars, you know, and I can
25:28
Speaker 1: tell you they're afraid. They're afraid that fear is part
25:34
Speaker 1: of making art, whatever the form is. Fear is part
25:39
Speaker 1: of being an athlete and performing, you know, giving something
25:42
Speaker 1: your whole heart. As you said, Shari, right, fear is
25:45
Speaker 1: part of anything we do with our whole hearts and
25:47
Speaker 1: our full intentions, and you know, and when we throw
25:50
Speaker 1: ourselves in the direction of our biggest dreams, it is
25:54
Speaker 1: incredibly scary. So the deal isn't how can I overcome
25:58
Speaker 1: my fear the fear? The deal is, how do I
26:01
Speaker 1: embrace fear and let it, let it be to keep
26:06
Speaker 1: me company while I go about my business and do
26:08
Speaker 1: what I want to do. And ye that is I
26:11
Speaker 1: think about stepping in, as you said, and when you
26:13
Speaker 1: step through that door and you just go to that
26:15
Speaker 1: first class, all the other people in the room, including
26:18
Speaker 1: probably your teacher, is going to actually be, you know,
26:20
Speaker 1: saying this is scary. We're all nervous, we all feel
26:23
Speaker 1: like we're going to be, you know, ashamed of what
26:26
Speaker 1: we've you know, judged in all of those things. Right,
26:28
Speaker 1: It's simply part of the work. And so you have
26:31
Speaker 1: to not reject that but rather embrace it. And that's
26:35
Speaker 1: my best advice.
26:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, I could. I couldn't agree more. I remember I
26:41
Speaker 3: would when I would get like really bad panic attacks.
26:43
Speaker 3: What I would do I would do. I would scan
26:46
Speaker 3: the area around me and just watch and everybody would
26:49
Speaker 3: just be like this, And in my mind, I'm like,
26:53
Speaker 3: they're all just chilling that none of them thinking out.
26:56
Speaker 3: And the thing about it is because I thought none
26:59
Speaker 3: of them were freaking out, I freaked out worse because
27:02
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm wad man out. I'm the person
27:05
Speaker 3: who's the one who is not okay. And I think
27:10
Speaker 3: That's the cool part is when we're willing to share
27:13
Speaker 3: our vulnerabilities that it helps other people realize that that
27:18
Speaker 3: fear isn't is common. Like fear is there's nothing wrong
27:23
Speaker 3: with you because you're afraid. That's like the thing is
27:26
Speaker 3: that the fear? You know how they say, oh, just
27:29
Speaker 3: do it, just do it anyways, just do it? And yeah,
27:31
Speaker 3: he says, yeah, that's not cool. But what it would
27:34
Speaker 3: it be helpful to say? Being afraid and still being
27:38
Speaker 3: willing to take action is the work. Yeah, so when
27:41
Speaker 3: you set when you say, like, I know what he's trying.
27:45
Speaker 3: He wants the wants the relief from the fear. He's
27:48
Speaker 3: asking what can I do now? Breath work will be
27:51
Speaker 3: really helpful with that because it can get your body
27:53
Speaker 3: back to parasympathetic. Start with box breaths for in, hold
27:57
Speaker 3: for for four out, hold for and do that because
28:01
Speaker 3: and do you know what stinks about breathwork is it
28:04
Speaker 3: takes a couple of times to do it and then
28:07
Speaker 3: suddenly it starts.
28:08
Speaker 1: To work and you're like, dang it, it worked, and
28:10
Speaker 1: I shouldn't do it.
28:12
Speaker 2: So trust that. I think that's good advice too.
28:14
Speaker 3: I remember starting to do breath work and they told
28:17
Speaker 3: me how to do it twenty minutes twice a day
28:19
Speaker 3: because I was like, you know, I'm training for the Olympics.
28:22
Speaker 3: It's a lot, it's part of my job. But I
28:25
Speaker 3: started doing it and even just doing it for five
28:27
Speaker 3: minutes every single day I did it, and after a while,
28:30
Speaker 3: I was like, this would have been incredibly helpful for
28:33
Speaker 3: the last fifteen years of my life. Why didn't I
28:36
Speaker 3: do it before? And everybody always said just breathe, And
28:39
Speaker 3: in my mind, I'm thinking that doesn't help because I
28:41
Speaker 3: tried doing it one time and it didn't give me
28:43
Speaker 3: immediately relief. So practice breath work if you really want to.
28:47
Speaker 3: That's really getting your body back into parisympathetic, if that's
28:50
Speaker 3: what you're really looking for. But I think what you're
28:53
Speaker 3: really looking for is the acknowledgment that there's nothing wrong
28:56
Speaker 3: with you for being afraid.
29:06
Speaker 2: Sorry have you ever?
29:08
Speaker 1: However, like we've just talked, we've given this big, gigantic,
29:11
Speaker 1: meaningful pep talk about overcoming our fears.
29:15
Speaker 2: What is it? What is it that's scaring you now?
29:18
Speaker 1: Like, what's this next, you know, mountain of fear that
29:22
Speaker 1: you have to climb in your life and in your
29:24
Speaker 1: in your sport.
29:25
Speaker 3: So one thing that I really like. I love I
29:31
Speaker 3: love training. I love it. I love to train. I
29:35
Speaker 3: love my sport. It's really hard. I made my first
29:40
Speaker 3: Olympics when I was thirty three, so I'm not one
29:44
Speaker 3: who is incredibly hm hmm. I'm not one who is
29:50
Speaker 3: incredibly talented from the beginning to the end. A shoe
29:54
Speaker 3: in for an Olympics, a shoe in for a World Championships.
29:57
Speaker 3: And I think that when I'm not competing, I'm so
30:04
Speaker 3: confident and I'm so like I can do this, I
30:06
Speaker 3: can do anything. But when I train, I notice that
30:12
Speaker 3: I train for the future, so I'm always training for
30:15
Speaker 3: my next competition, and it really it's it's fearful because
30:21
Speaker 3: I know that my sport will not last forever. I
30:24
Speaker 3: will not always be a professional athlete. I will not
30:27
Speaker 3: always be an active professional athlete. And it is worrisome
30:33
Speaker 3: that I'm going to have a hard time wanting to
30:36
Speaker 3: train when I'm not training for the future, when I'm
30:38
Speaker 3: not training for anything specific. I've done a really wonderful job,
30:43
Speaker 3: like truly on learning my identity from my sport. I
30:48
Speaker 3: actually had to for I was forced to do that
30:50
Speaker 3: when I was faced with the reality of twenty twenty one,
30:53
Speaker 3: when I didn't make the team and I went so low.
30:55
Speaker 3: I realized that you have to detach your identity because.
30:59
Speaker 1: It's going it would cost your life, and specifically, your
31:02
Speaker 1: identity can't be that you're performing well in your sport.
31:06
Speaker 3: Yes, like being able to be an athlete is such
31:10
Speaker 3: a wonderful opportunity. It's a great job. But any job
31:15
Speaker 3: that we have can't be us because that job could
31:20
Speaker 3: be gone tomorrow and we I think what was more
31:25
Speaker 3: important to me is finding avenues outside of sport to
31:31
Speaker 3: be able to connect. I was very vulnerable with my
31:33
Speaker 3: friend and family before twenty twenty four, rials about how
31:38
Speaker 3: they are not allowed to do that again and they were.
31:40
Speaker 2: Not allowed to disappear.
31:42
Speaker 1: No, you don't want space, You're like, no, when bad
31:45
Speaker 1: things happen to become and smother me with your love
31:47
Speaker 1: and affirmation right exactly.
31:49
Speaker 3: And my friends were like, world, we'll move in with you,
31:51
Speaker 3: and I was like, yes, you must, you know what
31:53
Speaker 3: I mean, And honestly, even being willing to be vulnerable
31:57
Speaker 3: enough to almost like I didn't want to hurt feelings
32:00
Speaker 3: right because they all felt but I was like, I
32:03
Speaker 3: have to tell you guys something. And I know your
32:05
Speaker 3: intentions were good, but you guys almost broke me when
32:08
Speaker 3: you didn't when you didn't come to me again. Your
32:11
Speaker 3: intentions were good, but I need you to smother me
32:15
Speaker 3: with love. If I don't make the team and if
32:17
Speaker 3: I do, like both, I need to know that I'm
32:19
Speaker 3: safe with you no matter what happens. And they all
32:23
Speaker 3: came to my aid and they all said, we're here
32:25
Speaker 3: for you for literally ever, no matter what you could.
32:28
Speaker 3: You could quit the day before trials and we're gonna
32:31
Speaker 3: be like great, who cares?
32:32
Speaker 1: You know?
32:33
Speaker 3: And and that calmed me down so much. And being
32:36
Speaker 3: able to utiful and even for anxious and afraid, being
32:41
Speaker 3: able to detach from whatever acting can potentially provide you
32:46
Speaker 3: as a person and allowing it to instead be something
32:51
Speaker 3: that is creative and something that is passionate and something
32:54
Speaker 3: that you love and something that lights you up but
32:57
Speaker 3: not something that defines your worth and your value is
33:01
Speaker 3: going to be incredibly helpful for you to start taking
33:03
Speaker 3: steps because you'll do it in curiosity and curiosity kills
33:08
Speaker 3: anxiety truly in my experience.
33:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that We've spent the better part of
33:15
Speaker 1: an hour talking about this amazing athlete that you are,
33:19
Speaker 1: you know, basically the champion of the grown up playground,
33:22
Speaker 1: you know, making the circuit, doing all the monkey bars
33:25
Speaker 1: and the runs, you know, and yet what we've mostly
33:29
Speaker 1: talked about, I mean, this incredibly physical endeavor that you're
33:33
Speaker 1: engaged with at a very high level, a professional level,
33:36
Speaker 1: a champion level. And yet what we've talked about is
33:39
Speaker 1: so much about the heart and the mind and the mindset.
33:43
Speaker 1: And I think that that is so core essentially to
33:46
Speaker 1: being able to succeed as an athlete. So what is
33:50
Speaker 1: your next you know, you said your training for your
33:52
Speaker 1: next competition always what is your next competition?
33:55
Speaker 2: I know you ran the London Marathon, which is yes.
33:58
Speaker 3: So I ran the London Marathon. I was actually just
34:00
Speaker 3: in a TV show called The Trainer Games and it's.
34:03
Speaker 1: On No I saw, you know, and then I was
34:07
Speaker 1: just watching.
34:07
Speaker 2: I love that.
34:08
Speaker 1: The very first thing out of the gate was like,
34:11
Speaker 1: you know, here you are at this check and field
34:13
Speaker 1: star and they're like, no, we're gonna put you in
34:15
Speaker 1: the water.
34:16
Speaker 2: Tell us about that.
34:18
Speaker 3: Okay, So so here was the here was like the
34:21
Speaker 3: crazy thing is they originally they told us later they
34:25
Speaker 3: were originally going to have us do a two mile
34:28
Speaker 3: open water swim like swim WATA, not like own paddle boards.
34:33
Speaker 3: And then they tested every single athlete and they were like,
34:35
Speaker 3: these people will die in this. We are not going
34:39
Speaker 3: to be well. So last minute they added these paddle
34:42
Speaker 3: boards and they were like the paddle boards will help,
34:45
Speaker 3: like will help. But because of that, they weren't prepared
34:48
Speaker 3: with like shin guards. I don't know if you can see,
34:50
Speaker 3: but I actually still still have the scarring here. I
34:55
Speaker 3: still have all the scarring from the paddle boards. But
34:59
Speaker 3: I'm quite broad. But even I was on like a
35:02
Speaker 3: boy paddle board, which is fine because I was able
35:05
Speaker 3: to float really well. But I don't know the ocean,
35:09
Speaker 3: like I lived in San Diego, California, but I was there.
35:11
Speaker 3: I was there like wate up, just like splashing around
35:15
Speaker 3: in the waves, like I don't go in the sea,
35:18
Speaker 3: so nine foot swells we were. It was so crazy
35:23
Speaker 3: and I don't again, I don't know the ocean. And
35:25
Speaker 3: I guess they told me later that they were watching me.
35:27
Speaker 3: They came to me and they were like, you didn't
35:30
Speaker 3: move for an hour. You did not move because you
35:33
Speaker 3: got caught up in a current, because you didn't know
35:36
Speaker 3: you were paddling as hard as you go at the
35:40
Speaker 3: wrong times of the waves, and so you were just
35:42
Speaker 3: getting sucked back out. And I was just like, how fun,
35:45
Speaker 3: How fun for me?
35:46
Speaker 1: And if I don't know what, if that's not a metaphor,
35:49
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. You know, there's so
35:52
Speaker 1: many moms and I should say before this game is
35:56
Speaker 1: this show is Trainer Games and it's like Amazon Prime.
35:59
Speaker 1: It's like basically like a survivor with just like a
36:02
Speaker 1: bunch of elite athletes and doing incredibly difficult physical deeds.
36:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was honestly basically about They were like,
36:10
Speaker 3: these are all people who love fitness and love like
36:14
Speaker 3: the sport, and they're good. We're gonna bring them to
36:17
Speaker 3: an island and we're just gonna kick the tar out
36:21
Speaker 3: of them. Yeah, mentally and physically, let's see who survives it.
36:26
Speaker 3: Like that is really what it is. And honestly, it's
36:29
Speaker 3: so cool. I love the way they structured it because
36:32
Speaker 3: the coolest part about it is especially if you're somebody
36:34
Speaker 3: who doesn't really love reality TV, because like it feels
36:38
Speaker 3: like it's too like this, It's like this is really
36:41
Speaker 3: like how can humans like overcome obstacles and it's just
36:48
Speaker 3: really cool. You see winds, you see losses, you see ups,
36:51
Speaker 3: you see downs, and you see heartbreaks and you see togetherness.
36:54
Speaker 3: It's it's really wonderful. There's there doesn't need to be
36:57
Speaker 3: any villains of the show, which is great. Everybody we
37:00
Speaker 3: love each other much and we all just honestly it
37:03
Speaker 3: was like us against the wild.
37:05
Speaker 1: In it and against your own capacities. Yeah, so okay,
37:10
Speaker 1: you've done. You've become a reality TV star. Yeah, I
37:13
Speaker 1: got to become You've run a marathon like that.
37:16
Speaker 2: Check that box. Everyone has to check that box. So
37:19
Speaker 2: what is next?
37:20
Speaker 3: So my husband and I do this thing where we
37:23
Speaker 3: come together and we ask ourselves like are you still improving?
37:27
Speaker 3: Are you still loving it? And does it still make
37:30
Speaker 3: sense for our life? And we're in a space where
37:34
Speaker 3: we're trying to decide if we want to go one
37:35
Speaker 3: more year with the Olympics or if we want to
37:37
Speaker 3: start our family because I'm thirty four years old and
37:41
Speaker 3: it's something I mean, So our next journeys are going
37:46
Speaker 3: to be like so exciting, but we don't know if
37:49
Speaker 3: it's going to be continuing on the track or if
37:51
Speaker 3: it's going to be taking a break on the track
37:53
Speaker 3: and starting a family and both are and both are good.
37:57
Speaker 2: They're both good.
37:57
Speaker 1: And I will say I have two kids, ages twenty
38:00
Speaker 1: and twenty one, and that is the most Olympian event
38:03
Speaker 1: of all.
38:04
Speaker 2: It is good. It's funny thing.
38:07
Speaker 1: It's like the playground is very large and you have
38:09
Speaker 1: to do a lot of things it right.
38:11
Speaker 3: I actually I have fourteen nieces and nephews. I'm the
38:15
Speaker 3: youngest of five kids and i have fourteen nieces and
38:17
Speaker 3: nephews and I'm obsessed with them, like truly, truly, truly
38:22
Speaker 3: I am. I mean, my undergrad is in childhood development
38:26
Speaker 3: and education, and I just like truly I love children.
38:31
Speaker 3: I think that one of the most iconic things you
38:34
Speaker 3: can do in life is to be able to mentor
38:36
Speaker 3: somebody through their life. And I think that's what parents are.
38:40
Speaker 3: And so, I mean, I don't know if I want
38:43
Speaker 3: to I don't know if I'm ready to wait until
38:48
Speaker 3: after the next Olympics. But we're making that decision together
38:50
Speaker 3: on whether we want to try to squeeze one out
38:52
Speaker 3: before the next Olympics or if we want to wait
38:55
Speaker 3: and keep fit until then. So, yeah, the next steps
38:59
Speaker 3: are going to be interesting, but I'm excited for them.
39:02
Speaker 2: Regardless, that's wonderful.
39:04
Speaker 1: Whatever you toose will be the right thing, and I
39:06
Speaker 1: know that you're going to do it with a lot
39:08
Speaker 1: of intention and heart, as you've shown us in this conversation.
39:12
Speaker 2: So thank you, Sharry for taking the time to talk
39:14
Speaker 2: to me.
39:15
Speaker 1: It's been such a pleasure to hear about your life
39:18
Speaker 1: and you're such an inspiration. I mean, I love following
39:21
Speaker 1: you on Instagram. You always bring a smile to my face.
39:25
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thank you so much. I really
39:27
Speaker 3: appreciate the conversation. It's so fun, and I'm so grateful
39:31
Speaker 3: that I was able to answer a Dear Sugar because
39:34
Speaker 3: it's like it's I think that that is also like
39:36
Speaker 3: such a fulfilling thing is to be able, you know,
39:39
Speaker 3: we go through hard things in life as people, and
39:42
Speaker 3: to be able to use the hard things that we've
39:44
Speaker 3: gone through and overcome and be able to like really
39:47
Speaker 3: help people in their realm as well as really cool.
39:51
Speaker 3: And so thank you for letting me be part of it.
39:54
Speaker 1: Well, you were a master, dear Sugar, so you can
39:57
Speaker 1: join me anytime, dear heart.
39:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, you appreciate.
40:00
Speaker 1: You, Thank you, Thanks for listening. If you'd like to
40:03
Speaker 1: send me a letter seeking advice, please send it to
40:06
Speaker 1: me at Deardearsugar at gmail dot com. And don't forget
40:09
Speaker 1: to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts,
40:13
Speaker 1: Happy trails and we'll see you next week. Min Over
40:16
Speaker 1: Mountain with Cheryl strad is an iHeart women's sports production
40:20
Speaker 1: produced by Britney Brown and Rodney Brown of Barbara Jean Productions.
40:24
Speaker 1: Supervising producer is Kaylin West at REALM. Associate producer Amaya Brathwaite.
40:31
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Molly Barton, Jerry Carreta, Grace Views
40:35
Speaker 1: and Jesse Katz. Our theme song is composed by Gramoscope Music.
40:40
Speaker 1: Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get
40:43
Speaker 1: your podcasts, Happy trails, and I'll see you next week.