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UK Column, China, and Intel Infiltration | Jerm Warfare Weekly Banter · UK Column Radio

0:30
My name is June. This is June.
0:31
Warfare, the battle of ideas. OK, after a couple of weeks of
0:37
silence, you guys are back. Kind of Say me, Charles, you
0:41
still no. There's no you still.
0:43
Yeah, OK, working. Our way working our way back,
0:47
slowly, slowly, yeah, but we're but we are work on the line.
0:51
Weirdly enough, you still sort of in former UK territory,
0:56
Charles. Yeah, absolutely.
1:00
This is it. I'm, I'm in Hong Kong and yeah,
1:03
it's funny. I, I was thinking about exactly
1:05
that on the way here. It was a typically British
1:08
experience, the journey I just had to where I am now in that I
1:12
got into a taxi and sat in traffic for the 1st 10 minutes
1:16
not moving anywhere at all. So home from home in that
1:20
regard. But yeah, but it's funny, the,
1:25
the, there is, I think, I think when you know what to look for,
1:27
certainly in terms of where the British footprint has been left
1:32
in various parts of the world, then then you, you, you know,
1:36
sort of what to identify. But I, but I do think, sadly, I
1:39
never came to Hong Kong prior to 97, so I don't have a direct
1:43
comparison to make. And there's no doubt it's
1:44
changed a lot since then. But there's only a simply
1:48
driving on the left hand side of the road for a start.
1:50
And there are, yeah, lots of things like the ferry, you know,
1:53
the, the Star Ferry that runs across the harbour still exactly
1:56
the same as it was over, you know, 100 and how many years
2:01
ago. So, yeah, there, there are lots
2:03
of absolutely lots of nods to the past, but like everywhere, a
2:09
huge number of pointers towards the future or, or just an
2:13
indication of how much times have changed.
2:15
Well, it's interesting. I know we've talked about this
2:16
before. The Hong Kong still uses cash
2:22
absolutely everywhere. I've so far, I've been here a
2:26
week now. So far I've only had to pay, not
2:31
using cash once, which I think is pretty good.
2:35
And yeah, I, I, it's interesting how those two things can be
2:39
alongside each other. The fact that you can have
2:42
enormous development, let's call it, and huge technological
2:46
advancement. So there are the options for
2:49
doing all these things. I don't even understand.
2:50
In fact, the girl who when I when I produce cash to pay and
2:54
she said, can you produce something else, which can you
2:59
use something else to pay with? And like an idiot, I just took
3:03
out a card and said, I think you mean this.
3:06
And then of course she reeled off several different ways in
3:08
which I could have paid without a card.
3:11
So just shows how much I know, but that so all that is there
3:16
and you can do it if you want, but the chances are that you
3:20
will actually be able to carry on paying with cash which is
3:23
really nice. I'm quite jealous.
3:27
A few months ago, Mike, you were jealous of me going to China and
3:32
then you went to China and I was jealous of you so.
3:36
So we even. No, I mean, I was jealous of you
3:40
going to Xinjiang in in particular, because that is a
3:42
part of the world that I'm fascinated by.
3:45
And, you know, it's clearly culturally totally different to,
3:50
to the the rest of China and, and just just for purely
3:56
historical Silk Road reasons. I, I'm fascinated by the by the
4:01
place. So I'd like to, I would love to
4:03
go and see it. So that was why I was
4:06
particularly jealous. Yeah.
4:09
I mean, it's, I think you probably had a fantastic
4:14
experience there. I mean, look, you're right.
4:18
The Silk Road, Belton Rd. initiative, Xinjiang is
4:23
completely different to the rest of China and it has huge
4:26
history. And not just culturally, Mike, I
4:29
mean geopolitically, traditionally cuisine,
4:33
everything is different. I mean, it's, it's more Central
4:35
Asia than than it is China. Well, a date, but yes, indeed.
4:44
But I was, I was thinking more in terms of the, the, the
4:46
historical rather than the modern.
4:48
But, but obviously the, I've seen the, I've seen the, the
4:53
trailer for the documentary that's, that's being made at the
4:55
moment. And, and clearly that is a, a, a
4:58
part of the world which is changing very rapidly now.
5:03
Why were you there? Why were we in China?
5:06
We were invited to China by Marcel Janka.
5:10
Who is has been a AUK column member since 2019 or 2020.
5:16
And and he has been running a business in China for I don't
5:24
know how long. And every year they they run a,
5:28
a sort of annual company event, which, which this year he
5:34
invited us to along with a number of others.
5:37
Carl was there, Pepe Escobar was there a number of other people
5:42
that that probably UK column viewers will be aware of because
5:50
Marcel wanted to sort of show off some of his other activities
5:55
to to the people that were to to his company's employees.
5:59
And, and, and it was it was also an opportunity just to, to go
6:04
and see a, a city in China that that we hadn't seen before.
6:07
So, so we were absolutely taking around the place very similar to
6:13
the, to the kind of city tours and, and other tours that that
6:18
that I did back in April last year when I went just on
6:22
holiday. But you know, this was really
6:28
just an opportunity to, to meet his people in, you know, that
6:33
that work in that part of the world.
6:35
So it was, it was a fantastic experience.
6:38
Well. As well I think.
6:40
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, just, you know, I think
6:43
the fact, the fact that we were that there we were OK, four of
6:48
us from UK column, you and I and Chris and Gemma and there, you
6:54
know, the, the vast majority of well, in fact, I think all but
6:59
Marcel are spread across China, Chinese nationals.
7:06
And therefore for them to look at what we do and what some of
7:10
the others are doing in the context of their lives and
7:14
professional backgrounds, I think was was a fascinating
7:18
exchange. But both ways.
7:20
I mean, we, Mike and I were totally gripped by what we saw.
7:26
It was, it was absolutely remarkable by any metric.
7:32
So I think, yeah, I think that's just an important point to make
7:34
was that there was, there was definitely, you know, huge sort
7:38
of interest both ways. I mean, Jeremy, we've, we've
7:43
had, you know, we've had a few communications from people in
7:48
the last couple of weeks asking about Marcel because, because
7:52
of. Stuff that's I was going to ask
7:53
on the. Internet at the moment, but but
7:56
look, I mean he is he is German national originally he set up a
8:02
business in China to producing Charles.
8:07
I would I would guess we would describe it as traditional
8:10
medicines. Traditional Chinese medicine?
8:12
Yeah. Plant based medicines, yeah.
8:14
Right. So it's, yeah, I mean, I've,
8:15
I've seen the medicines, they it's not pharmaceutical at all.
8:19
No, and he, he has done very well at that and he has
8:22
supported a lot of people in, in particularly since COVID
8:27
happened. He's supported a lot of people
8:28
that have been speaking out against what's, what's been
8:31
going on in the world. And as I say, he's been Auk
8:33
column member since since around the COVID time, a little bit
8:38
before maybe. And, and, and he has made he has
8:42
supported us a lot over that, over that period of time.
8:46
And I have to say he's, he's one of the, the, the I, I, I just
8:51
enjoy his, his company. Anytime we do meet up, he is a
8:56
fantastic bloke. So, you know, we're, we're
8:59
delighted to have him on board. And, and you know, he's
9:06
extremely generous with his time and, and with his ideas and so
9:10
on. But you know, we've always got
9:12
to keep in mind that that the UK column is the UK column and, and
9:17
he has just want to reinforce his point.
9:21
He has no desire to to see us heading in any direction other
9:26
than the one that we were intending to go in.
9:27
So, so just to to set everybody's mind at rest on that
9:31
point. Sorry, I pressed the wrong
9:35
button. I've known myself for for many
9:37
years, I mean, from when I was back at TNT.
9:40
And you're quite correct. He just wants a better future
9:44
for for, you know, his kids and for our kids.
9:48
And and that's how it should be. We all should want a better
9:52
future. I get so annoyed, Mike, at this
9:54
constant bickering within the opposition, quote UN quote
10:00
movement. And we've spoken about this
10:03
before, but it again, it's relevant because I, I constantly
10:09
see even myself being accused of being controlled opposition and
10:15
whatever else. Now, Mike, your degree of
10:17
control over me is terrible. I have to admit.
10:19
You've, you've got to up your game.
10:21
I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I hosted a show where the guest
10:28
argued that Earth is flat. You should have stopped that
10:31
Mike. And then Mike disappeared.
10:34
And with that, he's gone. Yeah, what has happened that
10:38
That's very annoying. That's extremely impressive.
10:42
Well, I can still hear. I can still hear you, Mike.
10:44
Well. Done.
10:46
Hold on, hold on a second. Let me see what we can do here,
10:49
kind of turn this off and turn this back on again.
10:52
You see, that's, that's the level of, of, of control you
10:55
have, Mike. You can't control camera even.
11:01
Or that, that that somebody has to be able to manipulate at
11:07
every stage. What's going on in the
11:08
background? See there?
11:12
He's there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:14
Yeah, look, I'm just going to have to, I'm just going to have
11:16
to use the the the laptop camera.
11:18
I'm not sure why that has happened so.
11:21
That's fine. We'll just, you were going to,
11:22
you were going to say Mike. What was going to say?
11:26
Yeah, you were asking about about the the sort of bickering
11:28
within the opposition groups. Look, we have to always remember
11:32
that that we are in an information war.
11:37
And, you know, at at the end of the day, people are going to be
11:41
influenced by a lot of the stuff which is pushed out on various
11:46
formats and platforms. But you know, over the, you
11:50
know, we've been doing this for 20 years, Germ.
11:52
And in that time the amount of stuff that has appeared on the
11:55
Internet about us, which has been absolutely factually
11:59
incorrect, possibly defamatory in many cases.
12:05
So I take everything that I see about anybody with a massive
12:10
pinch of salt. Now, Marcel has supported a lot
12:14
of people over the last five or six years in particular.
12:18
And some of those people, for whatever reason, that
12:21
relationship is broken down. And as a result there is the
12:25
usual vitriol doing the rounds about him from one or two
12:30
people. But I look at this from the
12:32
point of view that, you know, the, the number of people that,
12:36
that are massively appreciative of the help that he has given
12:41
over the years vastly outweighs the number of people that are
12:44
complaining about him. And that applies, I think, to to
12:48
us and to just about everybody else that's doing this in any
12:51
kind of honest way. So our view has always been that
12:57
bearing in mind that we have been in the receiving end of
13:00
this kind of nonsense for so many years and so many instances
13:04
of it that that we absolutely will not get involved in that
13:08
kind of effort. Because what is the point at the
13:12
end of the day, whether somebody that that's, that's an
13:14
opposition or who claims to be resisting the agenda is
13:20
attacking us or not, we're not the enemy because we're not,
13:24
we're not pursuing these agenda, these agenda items that, that
13:27
are the ones that are intended to, to, to enslave us or
13:31
whatever it is that that people are particularly concerned about
13:34
at this, at this moment in time. So our efforts should be
13:37
directed at the at the policy makers, at the governments, at
13:42
the financiers that are that are building this technocracy that
13:47
we're seeing at the moment and are using war as as a mechanism
13:52
to to drive public support for the direction they're going in.
13:56
So why would we focus any attention on any of the people
14:01
that are really not relevant to this discussion?
14:04
Yeah, but that's the point. And I mean, going back to
14:07
Marcel, I mean, a lot of people don't know you were talking
14:10
about how he's helped numerous individuals over the years.
14:14
I mean, Secret Bhakti was one of my very first interviews ever.
14:19
And I think that was back in 2020.
14:21
And he was heavily attacked by the German government
14:24
particularly. In fact, you might remember they
14:26
wanted to take him down and they took him legal, and they wanted
14:29
to absolutely destroy him. And who was there to help Secret
14:33
was Marcel. And I mean only a good person
14:40
would do that. Sukrit was also is a great man.
14:47
He's one of the best, absolutely one of the best.
14:50
Sorry, Charles, Go ahead. No, no, I mean, I was only going
14:52
to say, you know, that that that story, I think is is absolutely
14:57
sort of illustrative because it, you know, in doing say that that
15:01
action that Marcel took forged, you know, very close bond
15:07
between the two. And to hear I, I, I don't know
15:09
Sukrit bhakti, but to hear Marcel talk about him is it is
15:15
wonderful. And I think it, it absolutely
15:17
exemplifies what we should be thinking about, which should be,
15:21
which are the human relationships and fostering
15:25
positivity and concentrating on what can be done and what should
15:28
be done and dealing with obstacles, true obstacles that
15:34
are put in our path. And, and to look at it the other
15:38
way, you know, as you've just been alluding to, I do find it
15:41
completely remarkable. But also it it, it sort of tells
15:44
you everything you need to know to see that people are
15:47
dedicating their energies to attacking those around them who
15:53
are ostensibly apparently trying to, well, I say, trying to do
15:57
the same thing. They're they're apparently
15:59
seeing many of the same things and yet the chosen course of
16:03
action for it seems like an increasing number of people.
16:07
Maybe it's not an increasing number of people.
16:08
Maybe it is just the sort of multiplier effect of social
16:11
media. But but it, it, it does at times
16:14
seem like an increasing number of people are utterly blindsided
16:20
by the idea that rather than concentrating on the things that
16:28
they could be doing about their own lives or about those that we
16:34
discuss sort of ad infinitum, you know, that the, the powers
16:39
that be, the corporations, that those that are running corrupt
16:43
governments and whatnot. Instead, there is a, a sort of
16:46
turn inwards and a, you know, and A and sort of vicious
16:49
attacking. And I think the point, I think
16:51
that the point I'm making specifically with regard to the
16:53
back D relationship is, is that it, it in, in doing the, the
17:00
sort of inward attack, everything is negative.
17:03
There's there's absolutely nothing positive about that.
17:06
It is, it is all bringing people down.
17:09
It's all it's ego. It's ego.
17:12
Well, it, I, I think, I think that is that is also true.
17:15
But in, in, you know, I talk about this a lot.
17:18
If you, if you want to realise an intention or a dream or a
17:24
goal or whatever you want to call it, you have to visualize
17:29
it in such a way that you believe that not only it's
17:32
attainable, but you are actually going to attain it.
17:36
And the reverse is true. So if you don't believe that and
17:42
you just want to wallow in sort of self pity and negativity and
17:47
sour grapes and all that sort of thing, well, where's that?
17:51
Where's that going to take you? And, and I, I feel it is a great
17:55
pity that so many people have a tendency to get drawn into this
18:01
as though it's meaningful. Of course, we're never going to
18:05
be in a position where everybody on supposedly sort of one side
18:10
is going to be utterly unified in their thinking and their
18:14
actions. But So what?
18:16
Concentrate on the overlapping ground and the positive steps.
18:19
And if there's something you see that you don't like, fine, just
18:22
just steer clear of it. But to to get distracted to the
18:26
point of that consuming your focus for your output.
18:31
Is it? It is, it's a disaster really.
18:36
And and you know, as I say, a great pity for those who might
18:41
once have seen a better future, but actually have become sort of
18:47
deluded by the the absolute nonsense that swirls around
18:50
there and then. And then to consider though
18:52
that's actually important when it's not, it's just absolute
18:54
NIF, NAF and trivia and doesn't just doesn't deserve the time of
18:58
day. Look, that is a really, really
19:01
important point Jaren, because, because this is something that
19:04
has frustrated me since September 11th, 2001, frankly,
19:10
because what happened with the that's a perfect example.
19:13
What happened with the so-called 911 truth movement over the next
19:18
26 years as we are vastly, rapidly approaching.
19:22
What happened was the divided across 2 camps, the architects
19:26
for engineers camp and the Judy Wood camp, right?
19:31
And, and what happened was they started fighting each other.
19:34
And for the last 26 years they've been fighting each
19:36
other. 25 years, sorry, they've been fighting each other, right?
19:40
What is the point of that? To no matter.
19:42
Whether you believe, No matter whether you exactly, no matter
19:45
whether you believe in controlled demolition or whether
19:48
you believe in directed energy weapons, both parties believe
19:52
and can agree that it was not the aircraft that brought the
19:55
buildings down. So why not focus on that?
19:58
They can have their discussions about which is who's right about
20:01
that. That is something that they can
20:03
have internally within the movement.
20:06
But the, the, the campaign point is it wasn't the aircraft that
20:10
it was therefore a, a, an inside job.
20:13
And that that inside job has been used to justify a whole
20:17
host of historical events that have brought us to this point
20:19
today where we're staring down the barrels of potentially
20:23
global conflict or at the very least technocracy, right?
20:26
Yes, that, that that focus of that entire effort should have
20:29
been on that. And everything else is
20:32
superfluous to that. Mike.
20:33
This is the problem with the opposition movement, since we
20:36
are determined to RIP each other's heads off instead of
20:38
fighting the actual enemy. And it drives me nuts, I have to
20:41
admit it. It absolutely drives me up the
20:44
wall. Me too, I'm having arguments
20:46
lately with friends who are caught up in the same nonsense
20:52
and I keep saying but what is the end goal here?
20:55
What are you trying to do? Is it an ego battle?
20:58
Are you actually interested in taking down a, the official
21:01
narrative or, or, or or you or you try to fulfill the prophecy,
21:07
you know, made by Sun Tzu when you destroy the opposition from
21:11
within. And I, I, I see the same thing
21:15
you mentioned 911 Mike, the same thing with the whole no virus
21:18
thing. Yes, 100%, exactly the same.
21:21
Yes. And that argument about virus,
21:24
no, virus has been running for 150 years, 200 years, whatever
21:27
it is, we're not going to solve it at this point in time.
21:31
But let's all fight about it right now because that way we
21:34
can distract ourselves and we're not actually having to deal with
21:37
the the, the real because guess what guys?
21:39
We're scared of the real enemy, right?
21:42
And this is, I think this is really what this is the
21:44
psychology behind it. Aside from the fact that the
21:46
real enemy is pushing in, you know, narratives from outside.
21:51
I think a large part of this is the fact that people would would
21:55
prefer to be fighting amongst themselves and actually fighting
21:58
the beast that they see in front of them.
21:59
Because that beast is very, very big.
22:01
And they're very, very scared of it.
22:03
And it's got lots of money and they don't really know what to
22:05
do about it there. There's a lot of very complex
22:08
psychology going on here. There is and I think I think I,
22:12
I think interestingly, you know, going back to where we started
22:14
on this conversation here, Mike and I just had a trip to China.
22:17
I I'm now in Hong Kong. Marcel who've been talking about
22:20
now UK column shareholder really sort of important part of the
22:25
team has worked in China, worked in Japan, worked all over Asia
22:30
and has a company that operates in China.
22:34
So for this sort of thinking that we're describing the the
22:39
confluence of, you know, the idea of not confronting the
22:45
things that should be confronted.
22:47
And indeed, the spectre of China as it's presented by the
22:52
mainstream has just been a gift. Because for the for the idle
22:57
thinker, that is a sort of ah, right, yeah, OK, China and UK
23:02
column, but sort of put them in the same sentence now.
23:05
And then we can do the the big sort of conjuring trick of which
23:11
is exactly what the British government is doing, which is to
23:14
say China is China is a threat. And there are things happening
23:19
in China that that we must be very wary of.
23:23
And if we keep your eyes over there, then you won't pay
23:28
attention to what's happening right here and you won't
23:31
consider that the conditions here are actually probably
23:35
already worse than what's being described in.
23:38
I mean, you know, China is the obvious example.
23:40
It's so it's so easy. I mean, in a way you could sort
23:42
of pick your your threatening or problematic state elsewhere.
23:48
But I but I do feel China exactly is, is just it is the
23:53
ultimate proxy for denying what's right in front of you.
23:59
You know, what are you to do? This terrible problem of whether
24:05
it's sort of Chinese surveillance, spying, or the
24:08
fact that they're supposedly running this awfully oppressive
24:12
state where it seems you can actually do more or less what
24:17
you want to do. But nonetheless, huge
24:21
distraction and if you keep talking about it, then again, in
24:25
the same way you do not need to confront the things that are
24:28
going on specifically in the UK around you about which actually
24:32
if you focused, you might be able to do something.
24:35
Well, going back to the 9/11 comment, Mike.
24:38
So I interviewed A gentleman by the name of Matt Campbell a few
24:42
times actually, and he has spent I think close to £300,000 if
24:48
memory serves, which is a huge amount of money.
24:50
Sure, not all of these own a lot of its donations and and all
24:53
sorts of other things. Trying to get the British
24:57
government to reopen the investigation so that he can
24:59
actually find out what happened to his brother who died that
25:03
day. What, what has happened since
25:06
he's getting attacked by the darted energy weapons group
25:11
saying, oh, but you this is all controlled.
25:13
It's, it's gatekeeping, blah, blah, blah.
25:15
So what are they ultimately doing?
25:16
They're they're trying to stop something that's really, really
25:20
important. And by the way, Marcel also
25:22
helped with the with a bit of the obvious legal of his legal
25:26
funds, which obviously makes him a really bad person for doing
25:29
that, right, Because because that's only what that's only
25:32
what controlled opposition folks do.
25:35
They they try and support the government, but I mean it, it
25:39
just blows my mind when when people are are are more
25:43
interested in their own egos. But something in you and I spoke
25:47
about Mike on the phone, that there is also an element of
25:50
design here, this infiltration. Yes, I, I mean, I, I would
25:56
absolutely guarantee that there's infiltration in, in many
26:00
of these campaigns. And of course, it's very, very
26:04
hard to identify exactly who might who those infiltrating
26:09
voices might be. And, and really, at the end of
26:12
the day, we should probably not be spending too much time or
26:18
energy trying to work out exactly who it is.
26:21
What we should be spending our time and energy doing is working
26:25
out what the, what the right message should be and, and
26:31
trying to work out what is divisive within our within,
26:35
within our communities and, and try to deal with the
26:37
divisiveness. But we don't deal with it by
26:39
fighting the people that are, that are pushing what are
26:42
divisive narratives. We, we, we deal with it by
26:45
making our, our positions, our, the, the, the, the, the approach
26:53
we're taking needs to be better, right?
26:55
So, so I view each of these types of, of attacks as an
26:58
opportunity to, to, to rethink how we're presenting the
27:02
information and, and making that argument stronger.
27:05
If, if, if this is what I actually believe, then that's
27:08
what I'm presenting, then I've got to make that argument
27:12
stronger or, and I'm not going to say that it has never
27:15
happened. There are times when actually
27:19
it, it causes me to rethink my argument altogether.
27:22
That's that's part and parcel of evolution of, of positions and,
27:27
and, and actually analyzing the evidence.
27:32
But you know, deciding on what are the the most productive ways
27:39
to make your points and deciding when that discussion about
27:45
whether this is right or that is right should be something that
27:48
happens in the background and not something which is being
27:53
presented out front. This is part of what we have to
27:58
do every day, and hopefully we mostly get it right.
28:03
Well. Not always, but hopefully
28:05
mostly. Well, obviously an underlying
28:09
theme here is China. And I wanna just touch on this
28:13
just a bit more because since I mean, since you are there,
28:16
Charles, and you were there, Mike and I was there.
28:18
And so now there's this common denominator.
28:19
We all seem to have this connection to China.
28:21
And we've seen some of the comments on YouTube, for
28:23
example, where they go, oh, you guys have become China column.
28:28
So you might, you might see some of the feedback going, oh, but
28:33
you guys are just making excuses.
28:35
You are becoming more. China orientated.
28:39
Anybody that thinks that hasn't been paying attention, right?
28:42
Because because I started talking about about this
28:47
20/15/2016, part of the part of the reason I started talking
28:52
about this was because it was absolutely clear going back 1516
28:59
years, it was clear that that the British government has been
29:03
building a case for conflict with Russia and China.
29:09
And they've been doing it very systematically and, and the
29:12
types of people that have. And the US government.
29:15
Well, but, but let's just focus on Britain because because
29:17
that's, that's, that's really what we're mostly concerned
29:20
about here. But but the people that were
29:22
driving these agendas were the likes of Richard Dearlove.
29:27
And I'm saying to people, well, hold on a second.
29:29
Richard Dearlove is the man who we all agree created the yellow
29:33
cake narrative which brought us to to into war in Iraq, which we
29:38
all agree that Tony Blair is basically should be tried for
29:42
war crimes as a result of we all agree that the Iraq war was was
29:46
wrong and the person who created that narrative was Richard
29:50
Dearlove. Richard Dearlove comes along
29:52
creating a narrative about Russia and China and we say,
29:56
yeah, let's have that because we don't like Russia and China so
29:59
we agree with them. Sorry, that's not how it works
30:02
in my book. That man, it was was C He was
30:07
head of MI 6. He has an agenda.
30:10
Now, I have never taken the position that China or Russia
30:16
can do no wrong. They are governments and States
30:20
and governments and states do things that people in those
30:23
countries don't like. That's that's not the point.
30:27
I'm trying to make my point in what we have been doing since
30:32
now, I've been talking about this certainly since 20/15/2016
30:35
is to say, well, hold on a second, the British government
30:38
wants you to believe this about this country.
30:40
Actually, there's another side of this.
30:42
And it's no way to let China off with anything in terms of
30:47
technocracy or you know, the, whatever's going on in, in
30:52
Central Africa with, with child labour and, and cobalt mines and
30:56
these kinds of things. We we should not be letting
30:58
anybody away with anything. But what we have got to do is to
31:01
try to be a bit more objective about what the country is and
31:06
whether we should be believing that it is some kind of enemy
31:11
that we've got to fight. I mean, for example, the perfect
31:13
example of this was the whole campaign of our Huawei and
31:17
Huawei equipment being on Western and British 5G networks.
31:25
Why was Britain, this was viewed or just being presented by the
31:29
British government as being a national security issue?
31:31
Why was it viewed as a national security issue?
31:33
Was it because they were worried about Huawei's equipment being
31:39
installed and then the Chinese government hoovering up huge
31:42
quantities of Western data, including government and
31:47
military data? Or was it because every piece of
31:50
Huawei kit on the network means that it's not Palo Alto Networks
31:55
or Checkpoint, which is is really intelligence agency
32:01
backed, right? And and therefore it's therefore
32:05
the the Western, the Five Eyes plus Israel can't get access to
32:10
that information now. In fact, what Huawei did was
32:13
they give the British intelligence agencies the source
32:17
code that was going to be running and every piece of kit
32:20
that was being sold in the United Kingdom.
32:22
And actually MI 5 and MI 6 accepted that there was nothing
32:26
wrong with it. And, but, but for political
32:29
reasons, the decision was made that, that, that that kit should
32:32
not be there. So, and in the and in the
32:35
meantime, we're getting as we, we highlighted on the UK column
32:38
news just before we went to China stories in the Telegraph,
32:42
which are just so absolutely ridiculous.
32:45
It's how it could even be described as journalism is, is
32:48
beyond me. But suggesting that that China
32:52
has got is, is intending to to Snoop on fiber optic cables that
32:58
are running along the street outside their new embassy in
33:00
London. I mean, the thing was just the
33:02
story was just so incredible that, you know, how they got
33:07
away with it, I don't know. But anyway, so my point is this
33:12
is not something this our position on China, our editorial
33:15
position on China is not one that that is new.
33:19
It's, it has been something that's been running for years.
33:22
It's designed, it's, it's intended to counter the
33:28
narrative which is there to, which decided to drive public
33:34
opinion in the direction of conflict with a country that we
33:38
don't need to be in conflict with.
33:41
And it's, it's, it's hypocritical in so many ways
33:45
because while every, all the people that are in are in the UK
33:49
that are being, and they're being radicalized.
33:52
Let's, let's put the correct word on this.
33:53
They're being radicalized to believe that China is this
33:56
massive enemy. They're all buying their iPhones
34:01
and their computers and their bits of tech and their plastic
34:04
tat. Let's all be made in China.
34:07
So if you really don't believe that China is, or if you believe
34:11
that China is the enemy and stop buying Chinese goods that that
34:15
seems to be, otherwise it's their position's hypocritical.
34:18
It would be my argument, but but anyway, none of what we say is
34:23
intended to ever let anybody, Russia or China off with
34:26
anything. And if there's criticism to be
34:29
made of those countries, and goodness knows Vanessa is
34:32
criticizing both heavily at the moment because of their their
34:39
position on Syria, on their position on Gaza and with some
34:44
justification. So, so we aren't going to stop
34:47
the critical voices, even though I personally, I'm trying to, to
34:52
say to people, look, you got to, you got to actually think about
34:55
what it is you're being told about these countries because
34:57
it's not necessarily true. I mean, when I was in China, I
35:02
spoke to both Vanessa and and Whitney Webb incidentally, and
35:07
both of them were, were giving me very, very, shall we say,
35:13
less than positive information about the Chinese government.
35:17
Because like every other country, China has a government
35:21
and it also has its own deep state and it also has its own
35:24
warts. But you see the problem here
35:26
Mike is, and you were basically saying this is that there is
35:31
this deep rooted psychology that has been the result of years and
35:38
years and years of propaganda and anti China indoctrination
35:42
that the moment you say something positive, anything
35:46
positive about anything to do with China, you're a shell or
35:50
you're a grifter. When I came back, I received
35:54
more negative response than I think I did when I took on the
35:58
vaccine during during the COVID era.
36:00
I've never experienced such a harsh negative pushback.
36:07
And for what? Simply for.
36:10
You know, but you know why Germ the the reason is because of
36:13
Trump's position on China and Farage's position on China, that
36:16
that's why people people need to stop listening to to these types
36:23
of, of voices and, and actually think about things and and
36:27
decide for themselves. But, but you know, that's part
36:30
of why we went. And Charles, I'm sure is going
36:31
to say something about this because because at the end of
36:35
the day, we we should not be relying on on the stuff that's
36:41
out there. It's if, if possible, we should
36:43
all be actually going and looking for ourselves.
36:48
Yeah, I think that's the that's the point at which I'd like to
36:51
chime in because what fascinates me about China, I mean, it would
36:56
apply to other places, except that other places don't seem to
36:59
draw fire in quite the way in quite the same way that China
37:02
does. What what I find absolutely
37:03
amazing is how invested people can become in a narrative
37:08
without any first hand experience of it whatsoever.
37:12
So you have people talking about the, the surveillance state in
37:16
China. I didn't have my notebook out
37:20
with me, but I was keeping a mental note of, for example, the
37:24
amount of CCTV cameras in the airports at each end.
37:29
Without a doubt, Heathrow Airport had more cameras per
37:32
square foot than anywhere else we went.
37:37
The idea that somehow having to fill out a form in order to
37:43
apply for a visa for China is in some way an an out of the park
37:49
authoritarian measure is ridiculous.
37:53
I I have worked and travelled in more than 70 countries in the
37:57
world. This is not unusual.
38:00
And actually look at what happened as a result of the
38:03
stammer visit for Brits, 30 days visa free travel, et cetera.
38:08
So this absolutely peculiar idea that China is in some way an
38:13
outlier, it's completely extraordinary.
38:14
The only places I have ever felt the full force of the law, let's
38:22
say, and taken hiding from police and indeed been stolen,
38:26
been robbed by police, was in Ukraine of all places.
38:31
Again, an absolutely lovely place, terrifically corrupt.
38:38
But you know, so, so I mean, what, what's, what's the point?
38:40
The other place, the, the only other place where I have
38:43
encountered, let's say, unfair or incorrect policing has been
38:48
in the United Kingdom. And this is exactly my point.
38:52
Yet we have people who are largely based in the United
38:56
Kingdom who are absolutely convinced that what they're told
38:59
about China without visiting is A, true and B, so completely
39:06
different from anywhere else. And I mean, it is just not the
39:11
case. I do caveat that, of course,
39:13
because doubtless some people will have thought are, but
39:19
you've just been there just this one time, Okay, It's not
39:21
strictly true. I have been there once
39:24
previously. I'm not, I'm not claiming to be
39:27
speaking from anything other than the very brief experience I
39:29
have had there. So I'm going on what I have
39:32
seen, what I have heard and what I have gleaned from the
39:35
conversations I have had with people that do live there.
39:39
But I, I absolutely saw nothing that was beyond the parameters
39:47
within which we exist in the West.
39:51
Absolutely nothing. And the other point I would like
39:54
to make, which is a really important one.
39:58
And Mike spoke about the city Chongqing that we, that we were
40:02
in on Wednesday's news programme.
40:05
One of the defining characteristics of it, first of
40:10
all, it's enormous size. I think Mike said 20 something.
40:12
I, the figure I'd heard was 32,000,000 people.
40:15
Either way, there's a heck of a lot of people there.
40:18
And yet in the time that we spent, which was nearly a full
40:22
week, and we did travel out and about a lot, I saw not one
40:28
instance of anything other than completely cordial behaviour.
40:33
There was a sense of complete calm in the place.
40:36
And before anyone might leap to the conclusion that our it's
40:41
because they're surveilled, it's because there are police, you
40:43
know, sort of tapping their truncheons on every corner.
40:47
No, it's not that that does not exist.
40:50
That is not a thing. And I can't explain why that is.
40:57
But it was a very, very interesting talking point
40:59
because particularly there, Karl Zarb's on the trip as well.
41:02
He's from Chongqing. He left in 1990.
41:05
And it was just in passing, actually, I just said to him,
41:08
gosh, it is so extraordinary to come across a place with this
41:13
concentrated a population and to experience such in sort of
41:16
complete tranquility. Okay, this was multiplied.
41:20
And then this is, I'm not, I'm not trying to sell the, the
41:24
concept, but by and large vehicles there are electric.
41:27
So there's, it's really quiet. It's, it's sort of eerie
41:29
actually, because not only have you got quiet from the, the
41:32
roads themselves, but also quiet from the people.
41:34
They're not screaming and shouting and seeking attention
41:37
like like sort of British teenagers who who you know,
41:40
can't help but sort of spray fizzy drinks all over the place,
41:44
screaming and shouting. Just generally, you know, that
41:46
that sort of nuisance factor absolutely was not a thing at
41:50
all. And yet Carl was saying that
41:55
when he left back in 1990, the sense of sort of friction and,
42:01
and crime in particular was completely different from how it
42:03
is now. And the, the, the what the
42:05
talking point for that was I, Mike and I were both looking at
42:08
some motorbikes parked out, none of which were locked and even
42:11
people just left their helmet unattended on top of the bike.
42:14
You would never do that anywhere in the UK now, sadly, maybe
42:17
parts Scotland and Wales, but but basically you wouldn't, it
42:20
would be half inched in in seconds and and somehow, and I
42:24
believe across all of, if not most of, oh, sorry, most of, if
42:29
not all of China, this is now a common factor.
42:33
And that went alongside the sense of sort of order and
42:38
discipline and also really strong, I don't know quite how
42:43
you describe it. I was going to say family
42:44
values. What was what was very, very
42:47
obvious was that people walked around in families.
42:51
And partly that's because internal tourism is such a big
42:55
part of the economy. So anyway, you go now is
42:58
populated by enormous numbers of Chinese tourists.
43:00
And so therefore, it stands to the reason they would be
43:02
families. And obviously we're now we're
43:04
nearly at Chinese New Year. So that would that would explain
43:06
it to a certain degree, But there really was a very, very
43:09
strong family ethos. But the but the idea again that,
43:13
you know, China is this sort of downtrodden, broken, subjugated
43:19
population because of the threat from the authority or whatever.
43:24
Actually police were evident in places, but only they kept a
43:30
very low profile. Absolutely nothing like driving
43:35
around or walking around the city centre in the United
43:39
Kingdom where you would see many, many more police vehicles.
43:42
You would absolutely without doubt see what I would describe
43:47
as nuisance or just aggro or just chaos.
43:53
And there was none of that either.
43:54
So I'm not saying I know the answers.
43:56
I don't. I couldn't articulate or trace
44:00
back to 1990 or whenever that began to change and say why that
44:04
has happened. And yes, OK, that that
44:08
undoubtedly there may be an element of control, let's say,
44:14
or the idea that that not to toe the line would have negative
44:22
consequences, but it it, that that was absolutely not an
44:26
evidence. And, and people, there was no
44:28
demonstration at all that people felt sort of, you know, fearful.
44:32
So that that was a very interesting point to make.
44:34
And, and, and I think, you know, the, the way, certainly the way
44:36
that Carl spoke about it, I think it'd be worth talking to
44:39
him more about this was the sort of thread between and, and this
44:43
is dangerous territory, but, but the idea that the population was
44:47
sort of pulled up by it's bootstraps by means of
44:50
education, regional investment, internal investment, and, and
44:57
also the, you know, embracing the idea of sense of national
45:02
pride, but in, in a, in a very genuine way.
45:05
And, and then the other thing, sorry, no, I've gone on for a
45:07
while. The other thing which which I
45:09
would just like to finish off by saying is in terms of the sort
45:13
of, you know, going back to their love and whatnot.
45:17
The other thing people are utterly ignorant of is, is the
45:20
history of China, but also the recent history concerning the
45:24
British position and the British involvement in China.
45:27
We have done nothing to that country except for try to shaft
45:30
it and look back at the Victorian period and and what
45:35
was happening there. You know, the opium trade, the
45:37
Opium wars, the the ports, the treaties at absolutely at every
45:42
turn the British sought to do nothing but exploit and cause
45:47
havoc in China. I was going to say that during
45:54
your dialogue there, your monologue there, Charles, you're
45:57
talking about them, but you are in China just as a, as a, as a
46:04
point of accuracy. Yes, yeah, OK, sorry, but I'm
46:08
just, I'm just making because I'm in Hong Kong.
46:10
I'm just making a distinction because people do still get a
46:12
bit touched about it. I'm I'm making that distinction
46:14
between Hong Kong and China. But you see, then then again,
46:16
that's another fascinating thing.
46:18
And I and I will bring this into the news next week because one
46:21
of the big talking points in Hong Kong at the moment is the
46:24
sentencing of Jimmy Lai, the, you know, supposedly a sort of,
46:31
you know, force around which the freedom movement coalesced in
46:35
2019. Now, I've had some very
46:38
interesting conversations with people here who have first hand
46:44
experience of some of the things that have been going on, let's
46:49
say slightly behind the scenes. So, so there's, there's more to
46:52
come out on that. But but, but that that is such a
46:54
clear indication of the absolutely nefarious, nefarious
46:59
foreign influence. And you know the, the I mean, we
47:02
see it all the time, But, but again, this idea that that China
47:08
is the negative or is exerting negative influence on Hong Kong.
47:15
And therefore people apparently are not going to or not going to
47:20
allow themselves to see what in particular the United States and
47:24
the United Kingdom might be doing in order to present that
47:28
very impression and what benefit they may derive from such an
47:32
outcome. Extraordinary.
47:35
There's also a very interesting dichotomy because there's an
47:39
inversion of reality. You know, you can go there and
47:42
you can say to to people, guys, it's not actually like that.
47:47
But Germ, he has a video of Jordan Peterson, who's never
47:50
been to China, saying that they that they, they, they have
47:53
screens, you know, on the streets where they make an
47:56
example of people who jaywalk. No, I didn't see that.
48:00
Anyway, it doesn't exist, but no, it doesn't exist.
48:04
But, but, but it's, it's, it's as Carl says, it's Western
48:09
projection, OK. Because the own system is
48:12
imploding and they don't like that.
48:14
So that like a cat that's caught in a corner, It's it's now it's,
48:18
it's what you call it. I've gone blank.
48:22
There we go. Yes.
48:26
And it's exactly that because it is an inversion of what is true.
48:30
Yeah. Yeah, it is.
48:33
It's a total impression. I mean, I obviously what I would
48:35
dearly love to do is, is be able to further substantiate my point
48:40
of view and my recent observations by spending a lot
48:43
more time there. And, and yes, I say particularly
48:46
there because it it does not seem to be.
48:50
Yeah, well, sorry. No, I mean, well, OK, Yeah, fine
48:52
here too. But the the point is that whilst
48:56
China is at the moment such a, a vector for this, you know, it is
49:01
a type of cognitive dissonance really, and diversion,
49:04
distraction, all this sort of thing.
49:07
It would be terrific to be able to build up a substantial body
49:11
of evidence. And I know, you know, to Mike's
49:14
point, obviously, really you can't speak about a place until
49:19
you have lived there because of course you're never as a
49:22
visitor, doesn't matter how long you spend there, you're never
49:24
going to be subject to the same sort of influences upon your
49:28
life until, until you, you know, especially if you're sort of
49:32
paying tax, owning property, how you're employed, all those sorts
49:34
of things. So, so clearly they, they exert
49:37
particular effect on you, but nonetheless, I think the more
49:41
one sees, the more one travels, the more one speaks to people
49:43
because that's it. You know, you, you just never
49:45
know what sort of what kind of a conversation you're going to
49:48
unlock. And that, and actually that
49:49
going back to what we were describing at the beginning in
49:53
terms of rubbing shoulders with people who work in a totally
49:55
different industry from what it is that we're doing.
49:59
But actually the, the mutual interest in one another's
50:03
business was, was, was fascinating.
50:05
And I, I, I, you know, I, I derive great pleasure from that.
50:10
And, and I, and I think, you know, gosh, how bizarre to think
50:13
that even in, even in the United Kingdom, it's still slightly, it
50:17
can be slightly awkward to describe, you know, working for
50:21
UK column it depending on who you are talking to and sort of
50:26
putting out there what it is you do do and how you, how you frame
50:29
that in order that you don't get an immediate sort of knee jerk
50:32
negative reactions. It's a little bit tricky, but
50:34
actually this discussing this in China of all places, you know,
50:39
irony upon irony was very straightforward and people,
50:42
people absolutely got utterly what it is that we do and why we
50:47
do it and why it's important. So anyway, well, I mean, you
50:50
know, we, we could go on, but no, I mean, in as objective a
50:56
sense as I can conjure, it was a totally fascinating, but but
51:01
also overwhelmingly positive experience.
51:04
And I, and I just reiterate the point that I'm this is not just
51:09
comparing China with the United Kingdom.
51:12
This is comparing China with many, many other places in the
51:16
world. And I think it, it, it's the
51:21
most populous country on Earth. It is one of the biggest.
51:24
I mean, why would we not talk about it?
51:27
Also, it's history, I think. I think the other thing there's,
51:31
I think really there must under the surface be to an extent A
51:35
terrific sense of perhaps jealousy because you see what
51:38
what China has. I mean, it would, it would
51:41
appear to be deliberate, but what China has managed to do,
51:46
even at this stage in the 21st century is, is absolutely retain
51:51
control over its customs and, and it's yes, exactly.
51:56
And, and that funnily enough, I've, I've actually come from
52:00
the Maritime Museum in Hong Kong, which gives a fascinating
52:05
account of the early days of maritime exploration in China
52:10
and then the conscious decision in the 15th century that it
52:15
would not be pursued and it. So whilst that effectively left
52:22
the door open for for the Western powers as they came to
52:28
be, to take over great swathes of the, the world via trade and
52:35
you know, stick or rifle or however you you want to describe
52:41
it, what it allowed was for China to develop inside
52:49
internally, you know, in it's own way, effectively unfussed by
52:53
the rest of the world. OK.
52:55
And and then that was controlled to a, to a greater degree
52:59
through having just Canton as the trade, you know, the sole
53:04
trade route. And of course the language being
53:09
relatively speaking and still today very inaccessible.
53:12
Whereas of course for the, for the, for the English language
53:15
and the British Empire, it's been absolutely, completely the
53:18
other way round. And again, not just trade, but
53:22
but Expeditionary warfare, intervention, whatever you
53:26
whatever you describe it as. And look at the things that
53:29
people are complaining about now in terms of migration in
53:34
particular. And this is This is why I think,
53:37
you know, Mike just going back into why he was talking about
53:42
China from, from when he was, but I think this pertains to all
53:46
the countries that we do talk about.
53:47
Yes, we are UK column news, but a massive part of first of all,
53:52
the UK's history has been meddling in the affairs of
53:56
people all over the world. And therefore the, the, the
53:59
backlash of that is, is exactly what people are identifying now.
54:05
So it is completely relevant that we talk about other parts
54:09
of the world. But that is a, that is a
54:11
critical distinction between certainly over that period of
54:16
history anyway, between the way in which the British well,
54:19
Empire as it became executed, it's aims compared with China,
54:26
which, OK, you might say that's, that's in a way just a different
54:29
point on the timeline in that China, I think I I would still
54:33
regard really as as an empire rather than a country.
54:36
You know, we talk about Xinjiang, for example, being
54:38
totally different sort of ethnically, culturally,
54:40
whatever, because at at the time that that landmass became known
54:46
as China, obviously the rest of the world was doing different
54:50
things. So, so anyway, that's sort of
54:52
splitting hairs, but but it, it is, I think it is really, really
54:57
significant. So as I say, the sort of
54:58
jealousy aspect that the United Kingdom now, you know, for a lot
55:00
of people, Oh God, migration's the big issue, digital ID
55:03
migration's the big issue, sort of either passive or very active
55:09
racism or, or this, that and the other.
55:11
But in fact, you look at why it's happened then it, it does
55:15
make a clear delineation between what people in the United
55:21
Kingdom and from the United Kingdom are doing compared with
55:25
China and, and how, how that's how the fruits of these two
55:29
different parts are sort of being being born today.
55:33
I just want to point out also that even though I've been
55:37
called a Chinese China show or CCP show, all those wonderful
55:42
terms which don't really matter all that much, I still love
55:47
living in South Africa. And I don't know why I would be
55:51
labeled these things. If I if I say guys, they are
55:56
good and bad things. I think China is incredible.
55:58
Let me tell you something. You know, if we sitting a low
56:01
bar living on the African continent, it doesn't get much
56:04
lower than that. And I would love the past 30
56:10
years for us to have imported some of the stuff that that the
56:15
Chinese government did with its own country.
56:18
How, how it not everything. I'm not a fan of mass
56:22
surveillance at all, but they but there is something that they
56:28
did right, a bunch of things that did right and a pile of
56:31
things that we did wrong. And we still live in a
56:35
completely broken system here where their system is
56:38
flourishing. So they are good things to to
56:42
learn, and they certainly are bad things that you don't want
56:47
to learn. Now I think that's a completely
56:49
neutral and reasonable approach. I think so.
56:54
I mean, I think, I think to take the position that that China is
56:58
a fascinating place, but they're not going for it.
57:01
That doesn't necessarily mean that you want to live there.
57:03
Live there. I, yeah, I, I, I don't think I
57:06
do want to live in China. But.
57:08
But I think a very interesting point to make is that or an
57:10
important point to make, whilst I have no desire to go and live
57:15
in China, I do firmly believe that if I did live in China, I
57:19
would be treated with respect and I would be treated as in
57:25
effect, perhaps rather strange, equal.
57:30
Whereas I was talking to a couple of Hong Kongers, Chinese
57:36
Hong Kongers last night who are in their 70s with close
57:42
connections to sort of the United Kingdom, British society
57:46
and what not. And it was very interesting.
57:50
One point that was made to me was that they would absolutely
57:53
not ever move to the West, but not to the UK, particularly
57:58
because they would be treated like in, in their words, 4th
58:03
class citizens. And I thought that was, I mean,
58:06
I, I didn't disagree with it. I absolutely agreed with it
58:08
because this is where this is exactly where people have been
58:12
brainwashed, indoctrinated, radicalised, all the rest of it.
58:15
But but what an indictment to, you know, and it goes back to
58:20
this whole thing of, of where we started the sort of infighting
58:24
or backstabbing or whatever it is with the negativity and it
58:27
and it's, it's the same, the the loss of respecting one another
58:35
is, you know, it's a disgrace. And, and we should be, we should
58:40
be learning or relearning from people that still hold that
58:43
dear. So I find that a very, very
58:46
interesting comment. I.
58:47
Mean, but we're only just starting.
58:52
Yeah. But but Charles, that's that,
58:54
that is the point, isn't it? Because because whatever,
58:57
whatever we're experiencing at the column is, is, is indicative
59:05
of the types of conversations that are going on right across
59:08
British society and Western society as a whole at the
59:11
moment. And because there is all this
59:15
bickering and infighting and, and hate for each other that
59:21
that is part of the, that's part of the collapse that we are
59:25
experiencing. I mean, you know, I, I said, I
59:28
said on the, on Wednesdays extra, I mentioned the fact
59:32
that, you know, people are, no matter what the, what the regime
59:36
is, that they're, that they're living under people.
59:38
The people that I've met in China are, are optimistic that
59:42
they, they enjoy life. And, and you look around, you
59:46
look around the cities and you know, Chongqing itself, the
59:50
actual city has what, 1012 million people in it and the,
59:52
and the region around it as whatever the number is, Charles
59:55
thinks 30. It, it, it, it doesn't matter.
59:59
The population density is huge within that city.
1:00:04
And, but the streets are clean. There are no potholes in the
1:00:08
roads. The the the the infrastructure
1:00:12
works. And so on now is that because
1:00:17
that this is where they are in their, in their, the cycle of
1:00:21
things at the moment in the sense that, that because that
1:00:23
city has has massively exploded in terms of, of development in
1:00:27
the last 10 to 20 years. Everything's new, everything's
1:00:31
fresh, everything's exciting. And, and maybe that's part of
1:00:33
it. Whereas in the UK, we are coming
1:00:35
to the end of a cycle. And, and so, you know, just just
1:00:41
the, the organization, the money that it would take to fix the
1:00:45
potholes in the road is, is going to be huge.
1:00:48
But we're not going to, we're not going to achieve that with
1:00:50
this constant bickering and infighting, whether that's at
1:00:53
the political level, at the top of society or, or at the, at the
1:00:56
small minded level, at, at the most local, local base.
1:01:01
So somehow we've got to, we've got to take a step back as a
1:01:05
society and, and look around at ourselves and that and look at
1:01:08
ourselves and, and, and work out is this, is this how we really
1:01:12
how we want to live? And that, that is going to be a
1:01:18
difficult thing for us to do. But if we don't do it, we're
1:01:22
only heading and you know, the direction of travel is important
1:01:24
here and we're heading in the wrong direction.
1:01:26
So that has to be changed somehow.
1:01:29
Yeah, it does. I mean, I think the, the
1:01:32
positivity and, and the energy, I mean, I, we were, we were
1:01:36
together. I mean, we said it wasn't
1:01:37
isolated. But my, one of the things that
1:01:40
absolutely stuck out as such a contrast was seeing teams of
1:01:46
workmen, Rd. builders or whatever and they were all
1:01:50
working. And to, to anyone who's involved
1:01:53
in that sort of trade listening, I'm, I'm sorry if this causes
1:01:55
offence, but seriously, find me a team of Rd. workers or
1:02:00
whatever in the United Kingdom where any more than one person
1:02:03
is working at any time, 12 blokes standing around smoking,
1:02:07
one bloke working. That is, that is how it's done.
1:02:09
And, and in China, I mean this, I know this sounds silly, but
1:02:12
honestly, if, if, if you could tell a story about a country
1:02:16
with one anecdote, this would be it.
1:02:18
Every single man, Jack, they, they just got on with it.
1:02:21
And I do believe, for whatever reason, I'm not, I can't explain
1:02:25
the psychology of that. I cannot tell you why that's the
1:02:28
case. But I do definitely believe that
1:02:30
if that's the way stuff worked in the United Kingdom, life
1:02:34
would be very, very different. All right, we are running out of
1:02:38
time. So this week was China, next
1:02:43
week Iran. Yeah, but why not?
1:02:47
Well, there we go. I mean, I'll tell you what, as a
1:02:49
as a as a preview, you know, as much as as much as people get
1:02:53
riled about China, I mean, the other thing, the other thing
1:02:55
that that UK column gets continuously hammered for is,
1:02:59
you know, you, you love Muslims. Yeah.
1:03:01
Well, actually I do. And the reason for that is that
1:03:04
having been to well over 15, largely Muslim, or at least, you
1:03:10
know, countries that are sort of based on some sort of Muslim
1:03:12
heritage, I have never experienced greater hospitality
1:03:14
anywhere in the world. And as an example, an absolutely
1:03:17
brilliant story driving in Uzbekistan.
1:03:21
Sorry, wrong. Kyrgyzstan, absolutely in the
1:03:24
middle of the nowhere with with somebody, I can't remember if he
1:03:26
was a taxi driver or whatnot. The car broke down, right.
1:03:29
Great. OK, sort of getting late.
1:03:33
No one there. So what happened?
1:03:35
The next car that passed us drove us all to the first house
1:03:40
that we came to. The driver of the vehicle, I was
1:03:43
with a friend, the driver took us to the house, said to the
1:03:47
people who owned the house, here you go, they'll stay with you
1:03:51
tonight because I've got to go and fix the car.
1:03:55
He then went back with the person who'd stopped, went off
1:03:58
to wherever, got spares, came back anyway.
1:04:01
So with absolutely no questions asked, two of us were taken into
1:04:07
this house with open arms, fed, provided with a bed.
1:04:12
I mean, absolutely. Can you imagine that happening
1:04:15
in Suffolk? No.
1:04:19
So, you know, so so why, why are we so determined to do the oh,
1:04:24
look over there, they're all bad.
1:04:27
Projection. Nonsense.
1:04:29
Projection. All right, so guys, there we go.
1:04:32
All right, nice chatting. Charles, are you back home next
1:04:35
week? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
1:04:38
yeah. Back to the.
1:04:39
Right, cool man. I'll check you guys as.
1:04:41
Well, yeah, you absolutely are back to the rig.
1:04:45
Yeah, stealing myself for the return.
1:04:47
Yeah, yeah. All right.
1:04:49
Cheers guys. OK, thanks.
1:04:51
Thanks. OK, Bye.
1:04:52
Bye. Bye.