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MBA Wire Taps 474: Deferred candidate, needs GMAT. Perfect 340 GRE. Wharton vs Sloan · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, February 16, 2026. Looking for an MBA experience where you're truly seen, supported and inspired to grow at Vanderbilt Business, you'll discover a personalized learning environment that elevates your potential and turns ambition into action. Whether you're switching careers or accelerating your current path, the Vanderbilt MBA offers a customizable curriculum, exceptional outcomes and a community committed to your success. Propel your future with a program invested in who you are and who you're becoming. Vanderbilt is waiving their $200 application fee for MBA Wiretaps listeners. To learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program and to claim your application fee waiver, Visit Business Vanderbilt. Edu ClearAdmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going?
• 1:10
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 1:11
  Speaker A: So this week we've got a lot of stuff. We've got real humans of Harvard Business School. So we'll talk about some students there. We have a really nice military to MBA story, loads of interview tips and some pretty exciting news about forthcoming events that we'll get into. But first up, this is kind of a big week, right? Aren't there some more kind of interview things on the horizon for round two candidates?
• 1:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, Wharton's scheduled to release its interview invites for its odd team based interview experience, I suppose. And INSEAD also is going to release some interview invites, but I also speculate that Sloan will do so too. They don't publish ahead of time when they release their interview invites. But I think timing wise it looks like it'll be this upcoming week. Unless of course it. They did release them last Thursday or Friday because we're recording this Thursday morning.
• 2:05
  Speaker A: Yeah, good point.
• 2:06
  Speaker B: But yeah, and there's lots of activity on Livewire currently, lots of interview invites either trickling out or being rolled out. So we are in the depths of the interview season.
• 2:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exciting stuff. I do want to remind everyone, if you are interviewing, please send us an interview report. You can just go onto the website and share what your interview was like. That's the sort of life's blood that helps our, you know, kind of interview archive run and gives, you know, gives you the candidate great insights when you're trying to interview at a school. So please pay that forward.
• 2:36
  Speaker B: And it also trains our interview simulator.
• 2:39
  Speaker A: Yeah. Which has been going gangbusters.
• 2:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:42
  Speaker A: Do you want to share anything about that?
• 2:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, obviously I can't look at. There's no proprietary data there revealing anything. But I can say that We've seen now 150 interviews simulated through the interview simulator and I just think that's a good number. We rolled it out as a beta for around two folks to trial and test. We think it's in great shape. So hopefully it's really, really useful for those folks.
• 3:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 3:12
  Speaker B: But we are seeing really good traction right now.
• 3:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. It's been really picking up. So it's kind of exciting. We have a ton of events going on. So actually later today, February 16th at noon Eastern, you and I are going to get together and do our monthly Ask Me Anything live stream over on YouTube. So join us there. We also have it's just a busy week. We've got on Wednesday we're doing a special webinar about LBs's one year accelerated MBA. That's a newer program. They have the first cohort there this year. So this application cycle is just the second for that program. On Thursday we're doing a whole thing with Vanderbilt Owen about careers outside of consulting. So sort of like if you're not going to do consulting, which is, you know what a lot of people kind of list on their to do thing, what are the things do people do? So it's a whole webinar that we're going to do about that. That's on Thursday. All these things are at noon Eastern. And then, you know, next week we've got Masters in Management events with a whole bunch of great schools on both the 24th and 25th. Our Our colleague Mike is going to emcee those because I'm actually slipping away for a few days of vacation and then I am so excited. Alex, this is what I was alluding to at the Top show on March 19, which is a Thursday at 10am Eastern, we're going to get together with 14 top MBA programs. We're doing a series of three panels and this event is called Designed for the World the Global Advantage of a US mba. So this is an event that's specifically for international students, so non US folks who are thinking about the US As a destination. And I'm really excited. We've got Stanford, Duke, Columbia. I mean the list is long, but it's really 14 of the top programs in the US and we're going to have a panel about the importance of the international voices in a classroom. We're going to have a panel about student visas and that process of moving to the US and we're going to have a panel about career outcomes as well. And we have an amazing Array of guests from. There's an immigration lawyer that's going to join us. They're head of career services at different schools. We've got current students, we've got admissions directors, obviously, so I cannot wait for this. And we just launched a landing page so you can sign up, you know, just go to clear slash events and you can find all of our events. But I'm excited about that.
• 5:31
  Speaker B: I think it's going to be an absolutely fantastic event and really, really insightful because there is a lot of mystery and a lot of sort of, I don't know, disinformation, misinformation in terms of the. The realities for international students coming to the United States. So yeah. So yeah, I really hope these panel discussions and this overall event helps put the line in the sand and really sort of dis myths and provides the real current reality of the opportunities for these international students coming to the United States.
• 6:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's the aim. Can't wait for that. And then this is a ways off, but I'm very excited. We also just launched a landing page for this. We're going to do our annual in person event. So this is the only kind of in person thing that we do every year. It's an MBA fair. We're doing it on May 11th and it's going to be in Atlanta. And this is just kind of a prospective student fair. And I can tell you already that Harvard, Stanford, Horton, Chicago, Kellogg, others. There's a long list of schools that are joining us for that. So very exciting. And that's going to be hosted at Georgia Tech, Scheller, which is in kind of midtown Atlanta. Great location, beautiful building. So I'm very excited about that. We do this once a year and I know now it's become like a thing where some of our prospective candidates that tune in and are thinking about business school will actually travel to this event because it's the one event that has all the schools in one place which you rarely see these days.
• 6:55
  Speaker B: Yeah. And this is our third of these events, right?
• 6:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, we did Chicago, then last year was in Boston and this year we're in Atlanta. So it should be fun.
• 7:03
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 7:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. So stay tuned for more info on that. The other thing that I wanted to mention is that over on the website we've been continuing to just publish lots of great content. But we did this really nice story about a kind of veteran's journey to Mendoza, the business school at Notre Dame. And you know, it's just an interesting story about this guy was in the army for about 10 years and then pivoted out into business school. And he writes a really nice, nice piece. These are always Fridays from the frontline pieces that we do are always kind of firsthand. So it's written by this current student at Notre Dame. So good stuff there. If you're military or just curious to read a kind of heartwarming story. There's some great photos too, of him and his kids and wife and stuff. It's really pretty touching piece. We also, Alex ran some admissions tips. They're all about interviewing because that's what's on everyone's mind right now. So we did a kind of interview etiquette 101, which covers things like what to wear and what to do do and how to kind of handle some of the basics. But then we also did tips on what questions you can ask an interviewer because there is almost always going to be that moment at the end of an interview where they say, do you have any questions for me? And I can just tell you it's a bad idea to say, no, I don't. You should have something. And so this helps you to think through how to tailor that. And we also had another tip about what to do after your interview, which is, you know, thank you notes, all that good stuff, what happens afterwards. So a lot of good stuff up on the site.
• 8:30
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 8:31
  Speaker A: We also did a Real Humans piece where we caught up with Harvard Business School students. And I want to just share the profile of one of them in particular. I think there are five or six that we talked to for this article. But I wanted to share the story of Richard, who's 27 and hails from Munich, Germany. And he had studied at the Frankfurt School of Finance and Management as an undergraduate. And before coming to Harvard, he spent several years playing professional basketball as a co captain for the Frankfurt Skyliners, which is the basketball team in Frankfurt. As you know, basketball has kind of had a really big kind of, I wouldn't say renaissance, I would say naissance or, you know, kind of. I don't even know what the word is here, but it's become popular, let's just put it that in Europe. And so it's not just the US Anymore. People are really into basketball over here in Europe, too. And so he played professional basketball until 2022 when he suffered a career ending injury. And he pivoted into working as an analyst in private equity after that for a year or two. And now he's at hbs. And so I always love these questions we asked Richard, like Why did you choose hbs? And so he said, HBS has great faculty in the areas that I'm interested in. The business of sports, investing and family business are all very prominent at hbs. However, what convinced me was that every person I met before applying that was affiliated with HBS was amazing. And when I visited campus, the environment felt extremely electric compared to other business schools I visited. The people were the main factor in that decision. So that was just kind of interesting. I know people often say, oh, you go to HBS because it's ranked at the top often, or whatever. But it was just nice to hear his personal kind of story there.
• 10:20
  Speaker B: No, absolutely fantastic. And yeah, anyone that has an offer at hbs, it's got to be super, super tempting, obviously. But to hear that sort of how it resonated is really, really, I mean, it's good to hear, I think.
• 10:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree because sometimes I think the criticism you would, you would get would be people, oh, they just go to a school that's high ranked and they're not doing their due diligence. But here's someone who's, you know, arguably going to one of the best schools in the world and he's, you know, did his due diligence and he had a real fit, you know. And we're going to talk later on this show about someone who's been accepted at a couple of top schools and is, you know, they're trying to decide and it's going to maybe come down to a sort of question around fit. So we'll talk about that later. Otherwise, though, Alex, I don't have too much. We've. We're going to get into the candidates. But I did want to mention that we continue to roll out some bonus episodes of the show. People have probably seen, you know, there was an episode I did with a marketing professor at Indiana, Kelly, that was a lot of fun. I also sat down with the dean, Associate Dean at Georgetown, McDonough, and we talked about the new curriculum there. So that episode's now available and in your feed here, wherever you're listening. And I will say, coming up, I've got a great conversation that I had with the dean at smu, Cox, all about Texas and Dallas and their program. He's been there for about eight months now and it was just a really fun conversation. And we're also going to have an episode about financing the MBA with our friends over at Juno. So there's a lot of kind of bonus, bonus episodes coming your way. Stay tuned for those. You can always write to Alex and I@infoearadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps. But Alex, anything else from you before we talk candidates today?
• 11:58
  Speaker B: I thought you were going to mention that the Financial Times ranking is coming out today.
• 12:02
  Speaker A: Oh, yes, sorry. Yeah. Well, we don't have an advanced copy of it, but it's, it is coming out today. And so that means we'll have, we get to complain on the next episode about how much we think the ranking is wrong or whatever. We always tend to, you know, they're always, we can always find fault in most of these rankings because they're, you know, just sort of.
• 12:19
  Speaker B: I put you on the spot, Graham. Who's going to be the top three?
• 12:22
  Speaker A: Oh, geez. Boy, you really are putting me on the spot here. You know, it's funny, I don't even. I'm going to cheat and look up at least what it was last year because, I mean, I don't have a memory bank of like what, what they did last year. But I think so. First of all, the thing that I've noticed with this ranking over time is that it has been skewing less and less us and I don't know if that's, that's, I'm not sure what's going on there. But it used to be that almost all the top 20 programs on this ranking were American and that's really been shifting. And so I just looked at last year's here. So last year the top three were Wharton, Columbia and iese. Those were the top three. And there was a tie at number four with Bocconi and insead. So you see what I'm talking about. All these European schools have been flooding into the mix here. So yeah, boy, what am I going to. I think Wharton will hold at the top and I think, boy, I'm just going to say that I think that INSEAD's going to bump up a little bit here and maybe unseat one of those others in Colombia or. Yes. But yeah, I would argue that it'll be some mix of Wharton, insead and maybe Colombia at the top three.
• 13:34
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 13:34
  Speaker A: What are you thinking? Have you thought about this yet?
• 13:37
  Speaker B: I haven't given it one iota of thought. I just wanted to put you on the spot.
• 13:43
  Speaker A: It is tricky. I mean, you know, it's such an interesting ranking just because of the way that they, you know, it's very focused on post. Well, there's a lot of sort of post MBA salary, but then they've added in all these things about sustainability and carbon footprint and equity and things like that. And I think that's where the US Schools have been fading a bit because they're not allowed to track some of those things. Yeah. So it's really challenging. But anyway, we'll see how it turns out. But yeah, stay tuned. We will definitely break down that ranking next week in our regular episodes. So stay tuned.
• 14:13
  Speaker B: That let's get going.
• 14:14
  Speaker A: All right. All right. Let's talk our candidates. So this is WireTaps candidate number one. So our first candidate this week has six schools on the target list. And those schools are Berkeley, Chicago, Booth, Harvard, Wharton, Stanford and ucla. This person's been working in wealth management, although mostly via a series of internships, because this candidate is actually a deferred MBA candidate. So they're going to, they're currently probably a senior at university and they're going to be applying, I guess this spring or something. Right. So they would love to work in finance, asset management or potentially consulting. After business school they have a 4o GPA, a perfect 4o that was earned via a couple years in community college and then a transition into one the of of the top two public universities in California where they're finishing out their degree again with that 4.0. They're located in LA. They would love to be in the Bay Area or potentially New York after business school. Now they did say they had some really kind words and this must be why you picked them, Alex, because they said that they wanted to post their deferred mba, you know, kind of applyware entry here after binging the Clear Admit podcast. And they said they loved the show and they wanted to thank us for providing valuable anecdotal advice for the world's aspiring MBA students. So we thank them for listening. Some other kind of factors here. So this person has, I guess, done a lot of volunteer work. They point out they've been even, you know, from the beginning of high school they've been doing kind of volunteer work. They work at a local senior center that has like over 100 different volunteers and they, you know, provide sort of caregiving services for senior citizens in their community. They've had three different wealth management internships as part of their kind of undergraduate experience. And that seems like an area that they're interested in. And they actually have an offer post graduation during their deferment period to work at one of these firms. They have, they're quite interested in social enterprise. They actually founded a social enterprise entity that has received over $200,000 in pre seed angel investment funding. And so they're having you know, kind of doing that in parallel. And I think they want to continue to kind of work on that. And I'm trying to think of what else. There was a lot here. They gave us a ton of information. I know one key thing, you know, I mentioned the 4O GPA. Well, they haven't yet taken a test. They do plan to, to take the GMAT focus at the end of this month and they're hoping to hit somewhere around the median score for the M7, which is like 685 plus. They really want to crush the quantitative component of the GMAT just to make sure they can assure the committee they're really strong in that domain. And they're wondering, the big question they had is are they aiming too high with this list of schools which is essentially Harvard, Stanford, Wharton Booth Berkeley and ucla. So what do you think, Alex?
• 17:16
  Speaker B: You should aim high. I don't think there's any real risk to doing that because as a deferred candidate, if they're not successful, they can reapply in three years time or whenever it is. That's more, you know, at the time they're actually going to attend the schools and reapply to these programs and potentially widen their net if they need to. That said, if they come back with a really strong GMAT score relative to the medians of these programs, what's not to like about this candidate? I mean, they've gone the community college route to a top university with a 4.0 GPA. They've had to work during their studies. They're also very active in student organizations on campus. They're also active, as you said, outside of campus, volunteering. They've even founded a social enterprise initiative that got funded. Funding. And they've got these internships now obviously, if they can show they've done well in the internships, get recommendations that support that and so on and so forth.
• 18:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 18:24
  Speaker B: It just seems to me they hit every marker that an ADCOM will look for in a deferred candidate.
• 18:32
  Speaker A: Agreed.
• 18:32
  Speaker B: Potentially with the possible exception of what's their plan and so forth. So as long as that's tightened, which the plan seems fine, but. But I haven't really focused so much on that. But everything that they've done in my mind, Graham hits the marker. So they need to just aim high and see where the chips fall and really, really prep hard for that gmat.
• 18:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's kind of the linchpin is like if they can do well on the test, that will really help. It's funny we talk so much about all these exciting future events that Cleared MID has on deck that I didn't mention that we just finished a series of. Of events around deferred enrollment. And one of the things that the admissions officers said on those panels over and over again was there is no risk to applying now and then having to come back if you don't get in and apply later. There's no stigma attached to it. So this idea of aiming high makes absolute sense in my view. You know, why not? There's no such thing as aiming too high, you know, when it comes to deferred enrollment, because you might as well. There's no risk. It's kind of an easy moment. And in fact, many of these schools don't even charge an application fee, so it's sort of low risk to apply. So I think they should aim high. I do think they should try to have as high of a GMAT score as possible. And yeah, I mean, this is, you know, a really interesting profile. I agree, you know, assuming they can, you know, speak to their goals in an effective way. But everything really does seem to line up and they've had a, you know, just a pretty impressive, interesting set of experiences. Like you mentioned, you know, working their way through community college and then into a great university for to finish out. So, yeah, there's a ton to like here.
• 20:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:09
  Speaker A: All right, so I want to thank them for binging this podcast. Hopefully they'll continue to listen as they travel through the application process and maybe keep us posted as to how it all turns out. But let's move on and talk about WireTaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week has five schools on the target list, and those schools are Berkeley, Duke, lbs, UCLA and uva Darden. This person's looking to start in the fall, and I believe, if memory served, they submitted applications back in the second round and are kind of awaiting word. So they've been working in venture capital, pre MBA, and they're thinking about something in finance or VC after business school as well. They have a GRE score of 3. 4. I don't think I've ever seen one of those. That's a perfect score, essentially. And they have a GPA of what they list as 3.1, but they later told us they're from India and that they scored, I think, 5.5 out of 7. So it's. It's a different scale. And I'm not so sure that that 3:1, you know, is like a 3:1 in the US or something. So we would want to keep that in mind. They have have eight years of work experience, they're located in Mumbai in India and they are 29 years old. They mentioned that they're an overrepresented male. It seems like they have four years of experience doing big four M and A before the more recent work in the sort of venture capital or it's really domestic venture debt fund that they've been working with. So that, that's kind of the basics. They have some activities and things. I think you asked them some questions about this stuff, but what do you make of this candidate? Because, you know, they've applied and we're kind of waiting to hear what's going to happen. But what do you make of them? Because they are overrepresented and a bit older.
• 22:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's. So those two statements you made right at the end of the challenges, as they've sort of confessed they are overrepresented and they're a little bit older. So those are the hurdles they got to overcome. So they've got to be able to sort of really show that despite being overrepresented, they'll bring a unique voice to the classroom, etc. Etc. And I'm quite impressed with their work experience, quite frankly, Graham, so I think that will help them overcome that hurdle to some degree. They've also sort of dabbled in consumer startups outside of their direct responsibilities. It looks like they have quite decent volunteer experiences and so forth. I would have been more sort of positive if they coming in round one versus round two. So there's always that additional challenge in round two that you know, for overrepresented candidates, some of these seats have been filled, etc. Etc. So, so, so be that as it may, I know they've already got an interview invite at erc, so hopefully they've seen some more interview invites at this point. But, but yeah, I mean that GRE score is absolutely outstanding. Their work experience looks really very, very solid if not very strong. And as, as you say, even though they self reported 3.1 GPA, I'm sure that's not relative to a 3.1 in the US. Yeah, so, so that, yeah, and, and one, one, one reason why I'm convinced of that is again they, they, once they finish, they've gone off into a pretty impressive finance career. So you don't typically do that from a poor undergraduate launch pad. So I think there's a lot to like here. I just want to make sure that they've done enough to make themselves somewhat differentiated from that crowd of overrepresented. But, but, but yeah, I, I do wish them the best of luck. There's not really much advice we can provide because they have already applied.
• 24:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I think, you know, they're probably looking for some maybe reassurance about their, their odds or something. I don't know. But I will say I was taken by, you know, one of the things they talked about doing kind of volunteer wise is since COVID or maybe even before they've been working with an entity that called Clean Shores which you know, cleans up the beaches in Mumbai and they do these kind of cleanup drives and awareness campaigns. So that was nice to read about. And I think while they are overrepresented, I will say they have a finance background. So it's not like they're a software engineer or an engineer period. So that's a little different. When we talk about the Indian kind of pool and super task score, et cetera. My hope is that they come across as being academically very sound with pretty interesting work experience and as you say very impressive some of the things they've done on the side as well as their main career. So yeah, obviously they only have heard so far from esa, you said, which oddly was not. That wasn't one of the ones on the list. I guess they just listed the US schools or something and I guess they're waiting.
• 25:22
  Speaker B: They listed London Business School. I don't know where I got that.
• 25:24
  Speaker A: Information from because they said it in the comment. Yeah, they just didn't list essays as one of the ones they'd applied to. But then in the comments they mentioned it so they must just. But in any event they. Yeah. And I guess by now they maybe have heard from lbs and. And Duke. So. So we'll see what happens. But I'm hoping that. Yeah. That they get some good news and yeah. Appreciate them sharing their profile. It is. It's hard to be overrepresented and obviously it's ideal to be in the first round when you are. But hopefully some good news awaits them.
• 25:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I know and I would. I wonder what sort of drove. Their target list is geographically quite dispersed. Potentially it's because their intention is to return to India post mba, which I think is very noble. But I don't think they've over, you know, reached with this target list. Right. I mean they've got sort of top 16 US programs, top 10 top 16 as well as these European programs. So they haven't really shot for the moon with M7. So hopefully that that will help them.
• 26:26
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I will say, you know, I'm, you know, with the way things are right now in the US with kind of application volume international cadets. We've been hearing so some stories about international candidates applying a bit less to the US So that might be a good year. So you know, for, for someone who's international. So we'll see how it turns out for them. I want to thank them for the kind words about the, the feedback you provided, Alex and, and also just for sharing their profile. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three.
• 26:55
  Speaker B: We might. This might be the shortest show in our history, Graham.
• 26:58
  Speaker A: So, so this is a decision wire entry that you picked, Alex, as you've been doing these last handful weeks. And this person, you know, they applied to Sloan at MIT and they applied to Wharton at Penn and they were admitted to both programs and in fact they got a little money. Not a little money, a lot of money. At MIT they got $100,000. Wharton did not offer them a scholarship. Their GMAT score was a 760. That's the old format of the exam. And a very high, high score above the average at all these schools. They had a 3.8 undergraduate GPA, which also would have been very competitive. They mentioned they're coming from consulting and that they're interested in MBB in the USA because they're an international student. They are drawn to Sloan for its culture and proximity to analytics, AI and tech. But they connected well with Wharton people and the curriculum. They then go on to say, money at MIT is nice, but I can do either program debt free. Any input or advice is welcome. So. Yeah, what do you make of this, Alex? Where should they go? I mean, $100,000 at Sloan is nothing to sneeze at. So. Yeah. What do you think?
• 28:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it does sort of depend on their resources and they say that they can do either program debt free. So if that truly is the case, then I would make a strong argument for Wharton being in the tier above being sort of providing a little bit more access to MBB, stronger network in MBB, stronger networks, period, larger program, more resources, etc. I mean, the Sloan is an extremely strong program, don't get me wrong. And its affiliation with MIT is obviously going to be super helpful. But as they express the proximity into analytics, AI and tech, I think you're going to get all of that and more at Wharton also. I'm not saying Wharton's necessarily better than Sloan in this regard, but I Certainly think it competes in this regard and so forth. So, so yeah, I, I, I would bet on Wharton here. Graham.
• 29:04
  Speaker A: Interesting. Yeah, I, I'm kind of on the fence. So the one thing that did strike me is that they said they connected really well with Wharton people and the curriculum. So there's a, a fit question. And you know, if they hold money aside because they're saying they can graduate debt free, they don't really care about the money it seems then, you know, you would argue these are two great programs. Go with where you fit best. It is two years of your life. You know, I would also argue that it would be super helpful to know a couple of things. One, what are they hoping to do after consulting? Because that might shape things a bit. You know, if there's something specific that they want to do, if it's, you know, real estate or, I mean, I don't know, it could be something where you say, wow, one of these schools has a real edge in terms of alumni network and that specific domain. And then the other thing I was thinking about is where are they from and what's the reputation of these institutions in their home market if they ever intend to go back? Because there are some markets where, you know, the kind of engineering and tech reputation of an MIT Sloan could be very valuable depending on what they want to do with their long term goals. But again, I do hear you loud and clear that, you know, Wharton is generally regarded as being a step ahead and you know, kind of bigger network, more global network overall in terms of the MBA population and just the size of it, it. So yeah, this is a tough call but hopefully we've muddied the waters for them further. Yes, but it's tricky. Yeah. All right, so Alex, I want to thank you as always for picking out three really interesting candidates to discuss. And next week we'll, yeah, we'll have to come back with some really important thoughts on the FT ranking once it's out. So we'll keep everybody tuned, tuned in for that.
• 30:36
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good. Au, stay safe. Take care there.