Latest / Hunger & Thirst / When God's Plan Looks Nothing Like Yours - Ep. 5

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When God's Plan Looks Nothing Like Yours - Ep. 5 · Hunger & Thirst

• H&T: Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Hunger and Thirst Podcast. I am your host, Joshua. Joining me today is a very special guest. he's more known for his appearance behind the scenes, making all of this happen. But I get the pleasure of introducing in front of the camera now my brother from another mother, Mr. Michael Kean Welcome. Hey, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. I it's it's weird to be in front of the cameras. Yeah, it's a lot different on this side of the camera and we already have at least twenty minutes worth of laughing on camera. Like just trying to get to this point of the conversation. Odd, very odd. That's actually a great point to get started is I've known you for pretty much most of my life. it goes all the way back to these very walls, you know, youth group. you used to just absolutely destroy me in basketball and football. Cause you were like a grown man back then when you were a teenager. I was a little I was the runt of the litter. But I was quick. Yeah, yeah, I'll give you that. Runt would be the one I would I would describe. I mean you were fierce. You were you were very you I mean competitive. You were very competitive. So you're about half our size. So it was it was odd to go against you in basketball and stuff 'cause I I felt like I was facing off against a child and I was I was still a child myself. I was only in in my teenage years. So it was quite weird to to to play you, but you were so aggressive and it was funny because I was like, man, this has to be the way that like Sam and and all those guys like view me because I was still a kid going up fiercely against them. But yeah, I do I did those days were way back in the time. I'm now, not today myself, but I'm in in my late thirties now and I was probably in my early teens then when we first met each other in youth group. But yeah, it's been a long time. we've known each other for for a while. you got to move away. I went and deployed and did a bunch of other stuff and then. I just went to Oregon. You went across the world. Another another day, another tale. Absolutely going to talk about that, a different episode, very special one that I'm looking forward to. But really our story kind of begins in that childhood. you know, me and Stan talked a little bit about it last week. I remember looking up to you a lot as a kid and under I I'm gonna make your eyes sweat a little bit. I might make you cry, but no man. I I just remember just how confident you were, how full of energy you were. And I know coming back to church, you and I have had to had had several conversations now, just sharing our story, hey, what have you been up to for the past 20 years? so it's been wild, but hearing your story and where we went from back then and and seeing each other as grown men at this point, even though we still act like children. but just seeing kind of that evolution of just you never know what somebody's going through until you know you hear their their story of yeah these are all the things I was struggling with back then. Like I I I think I actually got in my first you know fight. We were playing football as with your younger brother. And I I just Just remember you you had this fierceness about you whenever we played sports. Like on Wednesdays, we would like the youth leaders would let us get all of our childlike energy out and play like basketball, dodgeball. And I was always so scared to go up against you because I was like, he throws so fast. Like I hated dodgeball for that reason. But when I was on your team, I was like, let's go. It's David and Goliath on the same team this time. And it was just so much fun. But I just remember you. If you don't mind, I don't wanna tell your story for you, but just your experience growing up because you had kind of a a just a wild ride. My backstory, my my testimony to get, to where I'm at today is a is a is a roller coaster of of everything. I I go from, I grew up in a small trailer park in Jacksonville, Florida, and it was just my mom and and then my stepdad came along eventually. and it was one of those things where like, you know, my mom raising three boys. I mean, I have two brothers, one two years younger than me, one two years older than me. And, you know, we we were rambunctious to say the least. Yeah. And my dad, he moved up here to Crossville. he was with another person. And so we come up here to stay with them for the winter or for the summer, actually. And we we we came to Grace because this is where he was going to church. And we went in here first Wednesday night. Me and my older brother, I I love telling the story because it's just so it it talks about just how far I've I've gotten to come. But our very first Wednesday night, we get in a fight. Like, I mean, two there were two other brothers, I won't say their names. Because I've seen them since then in my adult and they're awesome dudes. but like fur we're playing basketball first night here. Like I'm talking hockey match, like my older brother yanks one guy's shirt over his head, starts punching. And I'll never forget it. Like, my story would not be complete without talking about Teresa. Teresa was is like a second mother to me. She was the one that was just like, I can't give up on these boys. Now, you know, times, things have changed. My brothers have moved away and stuff. I'm the only one that's kind of stuck around out of it, but I can I can tell everybody when they ask what changed in you it was it was this youth group and and coming here to grace and it's like it it's made some of my best friends and my my wife started coming to to Grace when we were dating back in high school and and I got to meet cool people like you and stuff here but I went from a child who was very very much in a bad situation my mother did not believe in in faith Church was something your kids went to on Christmas and and Easter and stuff. And and it was more of a daycare than it was anything else. my mom, you know, we've we've been around the ringer, you know. I'm not afraid to tell the story. My mom was definitely not a great parent growing up. She didn't know what she was doing with three boys, all on her own. And it it got to the point where things led to very abusive home life. I grew up in that. I was very angry as a young man. I've had bouts with you know, all kinds of things, everything from, you know, depression, suicide, all you know, all that kind of stuff back and this was in the early nineties, you know, when I'm dealing with this stuff. It's not as commonplace as it is today and and spoken about. It was that hush hush stuff you don't tell anybody. Yep. And I you know, I r I remember there were episodes of like wanting to, you know, go down that road when I was like even eight. And I didn't have a good good faith-based, background. And so when I come up here, it was so odd to come to a church where it just felt like home. And it was that from like That day one, we get in that fight on the basketball court and it was so funny 'cause Teresa, I tell this story all the time and she'd she'd crack up if I told the story. But I'm sitting there and like she's like she's like, you know, got us three boys like we're in jail. We're we're all well, us four boys are lined up on the back wall of the gym and and Mark Melton was youth pastor he or youth person here and he he actually was one that broke us up. He had to pull us apart, physically pull us apart. And we're sitting on the back wall like we're, you know, about to get carted off to jail or something. She's over there like, Man, I don't know if I should call their parents or what. And then she's like, Nah, if these boys are that rough, you know, this is mine and and my brother Dennis's first time here. And she's like, They they need Jesus. And and that's that's that's a great thing that's been common throughout the years here at Grace's like, between Teresa and and Sam and Sarah and all the many youth leaders, you know, I had Denise and Mark and I I have Michael Dyle, who I affectionately nicknamed Boots, and you know, I I had all those guys, you know, growing up and then they they showed that same compassion, that same heart that I felt like Jesus had. And then we see even on the pastoral side, Dennis has it. And then you still have Teresa over there now as a as a as a teaching pastor and Sam over there. I've had the wonderful pleasure of having them at every step of it as a youth and then as an adult. And then you add Jeff into that mix, and he shows the same heart that Jesus had, that same love for the lost souls out there that need to find Jesus. And she essentially was just like, hey, there's no way I'm giving up on these boys. Like these boys need to see Jesus. And this is this is the hill I die on. And trust me, I gave her probably plenty of hills to die throughout. the years. Yeah. I I stuck around for for until I graduated, many, many years. but I remember seeing you, and like it's funny that you say that like, man, you know, I used to look up to you. It's like you were like that one thing that drove me crazy in a good way. Because like you came in, you were such a talented kid. You still are a talented man now. Don't feel like that. I don't feel like that at all. But it's it's Crazy. I tell people this. I'm like, he is the least confident, most amazing dude I've ever met in my life. Because, like, it seems like everything you touch is just you're just so gifted. And like, I am the opposite of that. I work my tail off. I know there's a few things I tell everybody, I I'm a I'm I'm the one tool that I know exactly what my job is. I'm a hammer. You know, I'm I'm good at a few things, and that thing I do really well, and I'm not very gifted anything else. it's tough because like I work twice as hard and I'm still not that good at it. You know, and it's like I see people like you are just naturally gifted. I see my son, who's a naturally gifted runner. When I see you guys do something that just the good Lord has given you natural ability. The only thing I've ever had natural ability to do is run my mouth. and anyone who's ever known me, you know, will will know that's the truth. this mouth I I literally was like, there's The good Lord's got something planned for me in my future where I'm gonna speak because my mouth is about the only thing that can run nonstop without any any you know real real effort. but like I was I'm so ultra competitive. It's it's things that, you know, if you task me something, I'm gonna I'm gonna just go down. It comes back to what you were saying about like in those sports that we were lined against. Wasn't that I was the best at football or the best at basketball or the best in this. I was just so ultra competitive that I was like, I don't care if it's three foot two Josh lined up against me or five ten same. And through life I've taken that same same path into my my time in the Marine Corps and know didn't realize that it was gonna be even more difficult than that. But my time as a as a as a husband and a and a father, you know, 150% all the time is difficult to deal with. But it's it's one of those things where like I have to keep that up because I know that my skill set does not lean into me being able to n give less than 150% and be adequate for my standards. which has led to a lot of, you know, me feeling a little bit. unqualified to do some of the jobs that I've been asked to do, but mainly doing things like producing the podcast or, helping in the sound booth. Those are so out of my wheelhouse. It it's true you have just such an ability to not only just rally the troops, you know, no pun intended, given your military background, but truly like getting all of us motivated because I'm a procrastinator. I know Jeff has his personality of a thousand different like we joke around all the time. He's got a thousand different tabs open on his laptop and in his head and he's just a bunch of ideas coming. And it's such a a puzzle piece that fits together so well is having you in the mix and like your attention to detail in the booth and in other areas. Like it it rings right back to just everything fell in line exactly as it should have. Like I want you to to go back a little bit more of those early days. it is hilarious that your first day here got into a fight. The only scrap I've ever been in was with your brother here at church. So I'm starting to see a pattern and unfortunately Teresa's the one that had to deal with it too. I never even knew that. Yeah. But like I say it was like I said, a scuffle like with Jeremy, but we were playing football and like caught a bad pass or he he passed interference. We'll we'll call it that on a carpeted gym floor, no money on the line. Pass interference. And we just started shoving and Teresa had to break that up. And bless her heart, because those are the exact you put a bunch of teenage boys in a gym playing sports, you're gonna have those tempers flare, you're gonna have egos get in the way. And what better place to really hone your craft of cutting out all the nonsense in your life? No better place than in a church. Like bring us your broken, bring us your weary, bring us the the egotistical, you know, whatever, the the wild child. This is where you're supposed to be. Like we don't need perfect. And that's one thing I've heard you talk about just in your own kind of just in our own little side conversations of this is the place that kept you coming back like to the faith. Walk through those earlier days of your journey a little bit more of the however, you know, deep you want to go into that. I know it's it's a long, it's a very impactful and powerful story, but So those first few days of got into a fight. Next Sunday rolls around. how is it coming back? So it's funny. Or what actually got you to come back, I should ask. It's funny because that was that was actually when the first Wednesday night, first time I come up here was Wednesday night. We're playing basketball, youth. And then that Sunday, we've got to still come back here, right? And because dad still is coming here. Mary was still coming here. Her kids and her family were set. This was their church. Yeah, we were just the kids that were coming for the summer. And that next Sunday was was really weird I'm like man these people are gonna hate me and it's funny Jeff has got this motto we talked about that first the first time it's like was a real real people real church real God yep and it's so funny that even back then prior to Jeff even being part of this church that was still the motto and still the the way they acted with their actions. and so like it that was the thing. I walk in that next Sunday and I'm thinking like, man, dude, Teresa's probably told all these people that we are like these rambunctious kids and and we were, man. We we come from the inner city of Jackson when we were looking for a fight. That's what we were used to. And like I come in and literally like all these adults like are like, Hey, welcome in. You know, they're meeting me for the first time. They're you know Super nice. this was, 25 years ago, 26 years ago. And so, they were all hey, welcome to Grace, awesome. And I'm thinking, Teresa just hasn't told them, And then I go meet Dennis. And then it's like, my dad takes me over there to meet Dennis, and I'm like, he for one knows. he had to have been updated. Nothing. Nothing was said. You know, I go find, you know, I find Teresa and I'm like, She's about to get on to me, Nothing. It was like it never happened. and then I was like, man, what? These people are crazy, you know, these people are weird. And then I'm like, you know, and you know, I'm gonna say some things they're not gonna be super politically correct, but like, you know, I I'm in, you know, Podunk, Crossville, Tennessee, you know, and I come from I come from Jacksonville, Florida, where there's a million people. Yeah. And, you know, and I'm like, all right, you know, this is this is, you know. This is their culture. and I'm like, it's so much different. And it was just consistence on their part of like every Sunday and every Wednesday, they were the same. Yep. And it wasn't just a only Teresa, it wasn't an only Dennis. It was a shared cohesive mindset throughout my young life that like. They were just gonna love me however I was. Yeah. Whether that was the crazy psycho kid who came in here and wanted to fight every kid who was around, whether that was the super broken, messed up adult that I was in my later years and and even to the the, sometimes confused and lost adult I am now, they they're the same. And I I and that was that consistency that needed every bit. You know, I grew up for most of my life without a father and and a lot of times without a lot of structure in my life. And it was, it was weird that when I had structure with my mom during that early year, the early years, it was it was structure, but it was aggressive structuring. And here it was not that. You know, that that first Sunday, and then that next Wednesday, and then the next Sunday, it was, it was structure, but it was it was tender structure. It was that structure that allowed me to be me, but taught me that there was more to it. And so they were, I didn't know it until later, but they were. Building a character of Jesus that I had never been able to see. I grew up in a little Southern Baptist church, little three bedroom church that we got when we went and took our trip to to Jacksonville. I got the privilege of driving them by and showing them the church I grew up in. It's just a little three bedroom, building and and it's a little Southern Baptist church. I think there was me and my brothers made up probably a third of the youth group, just the three of us. And and I wanna say there was maybe ten people total in the entire church. And it's like, you know, it was it was great. You know, we're playing music on a little boom box and And, doing that thing. We had, the the brimstone and fire church, where where the pastor gets up there and he talks till he's got that spittle going in his mouth. And yep. And it was just, that that's the Jesus I grew up with. The Jesus who was more Bent on scaring me out of hell than he was welcoming me into heaven. And so true. And then I come to grace and it's completely opposite. Yep. Like grace is is is true to its name and it's it's teaching me even from that first day. You know, yeah, we look back at it and we're like, that first fight? Like this is dumb, you know? Like, like, but then I look back and it's like, he was teaching me grace from moment one. He's like, even when you mess up. I have enough grace to love you because I can see where you can be. And then I get to the point and it's like, I I'm sitting there and I'm I'm like, man, this next Sunday comes. And then I see Grace again. And then I get to that next Wednesday and I'm like, of course, she's gonna not let us play basketball. She's gonna not nothing changes. And I'm like, that grace again. And I'm like Grace keeps rearing its head over and over again. And then I'm like, man. And then slowly but surely, Teresa teaches me, and then sitting in big church, and I'm learning from Dennis about this guy named Jesus that I knew of, but didn't know that he had this like relationship ready for me that I was so desperately yearning for. And so early, early years went on, and I was just like, as the first probably, I don't know, month, month and a half go by, I'm thinking, like, this is nothing. whatever. And then it comes to like, hey, we make a big decision that we're gonna start living with our dad instead of our mom. And it was that winter and we're like, we never went back home. And we just stayed here. And then I'm like, man. So I'm not just gonna see these guys for left all your stuff. you just all right, we're staying. Yeah, yeah. It it came down to that. It was literally we were we were like thirteen, fourteen years old at that time. And my my younger brother was like, I think like eleven or ten. And they just pretty much were like, Hey, you know, you guys are of the age, you know, you can decide where you want. Well, you know, my home life wasn't great at my mom's, and we're like, let's live with dad, you know? And so it went from like, I've only got to deal with these people at the church for two months. Yep. So now in the summer comes and I'm still walking back in these doors. And I'm like, man, what am I doing? You know, like these people are gonna hate me. I want to go back to my little church where I run things and and and it was it was interesting. I I don't know that that moment I had to make a big decision and I would say it was probably shortly after that, maybe a week or two after that, that I was just like, all right, if I'm gonna do this, yeah, I'm gonna I I'm I don't do anything half kilter. I I just don't. You know, we talked about it. I'm I'm 150%. So I was like, all right, you know, it started then. I was like, okay, I'm all in. I'm gonna do this church thing, hundred percent. The doors were open, I was here. I mean, I'm pretty sure there were probably times Teresa was like, I'm hoping Michael doesn't show up to this event. But like she had youth events on Tuesdays and a you know, a random Friday and then a weekend. And we had five or six lock-ins and I'm I'm in every one. I mean, I couldn't get enough of the church. And it it wasn't that I was trying to like when I came up, it wasn't because I was a like super believer. You know, I was in church because I wanted to to to read the Bible and talk about Jesus. It wasn't. Yeah. It was, it was, I'd found a community of people that really genuinely cared. And so that drug me back every single week. And I was just like, I'm gonna keep going. I I need it. I was, I was striving for this. And slowly I was building this relationship with not just the physical people of the church, but the people that that he was talking about, Jesus. And, you know, I would, I would kill in like Bible trivia and this and that because it was a competition, you know. And we used to have like winter conference and stuff we'd go to, a ski invasion was the name of it back then. And we would have to do like things like learn books of the Bible. I don't know anything. I've read the Bible back and forth by then because it was a book and I was a book nerd back then. And so I'm like, I can I could read a book and spew off and I'm spewing them off it. But then I'm like, man, I'm not only learning them now. I'm learning about the books. I'm learning the the verses in the book. And then I'm I'm having questions that I'm asking Teresa. And Teresa did such an amazing job explaining it to me in a way that 13, 14, 15 year old Michael could understand it. Yep. And like she built this like foundation that God would use later on when we went to one of these winter conferences where Clayton King back in those days, it wasn't fancy or anything. It was real, you know, real cheap. We were, we were at the IMAX and it was like they would set up a stage and they, you know. They had a little band up on there. It wasn't, you know, massive like it is now. Yeah. And it still looked cutting edge back then though. Like to my middle school brand, I was like, this is the big time. Yeah, yeah. No, it was it wasn't and and I can't I can't I couldn't tell you what he said, but I'm sitting there and all of a sudden everything clicked. I'm sitting there and I'm like, this was probably year two or three in in the youth group. And So I'm probably a freshman. This is probably right before you came. And it's weird because I'd grown up in that little church, going to that church since I was six, that little three bedroom building. But then I get to the point where I'm like, Okay, well, you know, all this stuff is now clicking. Like he he was preaching about I think it might have been the I'm I'm gonna draw a blank 'cause I know I'm not gonna be remembered 'cause I never can, but I think it was the prodigal son that he was talking about. And everything clicked. Everything clicked and I was like, my gosh, like this is this is my life. and I look over and I'm like, man, this is the stuff she was talking about. This is the Jesus she's talking about. And I felt this overwhelming peace I'd never felt. And they were like, they still do it now. It's a little bit different now that they have 10,000 people go into these events. But he's like, All right, raise your hand if you know, you know, you you felt called and I couldn't tell you if they actually led an invitation prayer or anything like that because I was in my own moment with Jesus at that point. And I'm just like, that's gotta be what this is, you know. And I raised my hand and then I remember going out and what they used to do back then is they'd make the all the leaders break off in small group with their with their people and they were like, All right, you're gonna go out and you're gonna talk to your your your Your kids that raise their hand. And I remember walking out with Teresa and I believe it was Michael Dial at that point. And we're sitting out there and they're like, you know what this means. And they're walking me through salvation. I grew up in it. I thought I was saved. You know, I thought I was like, whoa, I must have raised my hand for the wrong thing, you know? And then they're like, you know. If you felt that tug, that's Jesus talking to you. And I'm like, okay, I've been saved before. that was that thing where I didn't want to go to hell. I went to the the, the little revival tent and the guy told me that I was gonna burn. And I personally don't want to burn. But then I realized that my true salvation came when I wanted that relationship with Jesus, not just not to go to hell. Yep. And so I ended up like, you know, there and then on that trip, you know, committing my life to Jesus. And then it it got even worse when I got home. You know, then I was like. begging them to open the doors of the church. I just, I was wanting the church to be open 24-7. If at that point I could have left school and left life and just went to work for the church, I probably would have. But I think the good Lord had other plans for me in my future. My testimony was at that point I had just kind of gotten away from an abusive mother and a and and a dad that kind of didn't want to didn't want to really be a dad. He wanted to be more of a friend than a dad. And so like to me it was it was really like that was my testimony and I was like, this is, we're listening to about testimony. I'm like, this is a great testimony. I come here, I'm I go from that and I'm I'm this rough and tumble kid and Teresa turns me around. And little did I know that's a P sized piece of gravel into the mountain that God is gonna turn my life into. And not always for the good either, you know, and and and so those first years were were some of the most foundationally breaking years of my life. And It tore everything I believed in, in faith and and family and friends down. And then back then there was like 10 people in this youth group, you know. And now they've got like 50 kids. It's insane to see them. And then, you know, I veg in for about a year, and then all of a sudden your guys' group comes up. And that included my little brother and and stuff. And it was like. That was probably the biggest test of my faith was when your guys cause we had that gap where we didn't have a lot of kids coming in. Then we had that big influx of your guys' group and and it was. It was that's when you showed up and I was like, Man, this kid is insane. I'm watching him on the drums and he play guitar and he's like learning all these things and he's like picking everything up. And it for me as a as a young man, I was like, I wanna do these things. I wanna strive to be just good at these things. And I was like, I was struggling because again, the only thing I was good at, running my mouth. I was the best trash talker you ever met. You I'd be in the parking lot. Just I can't believe you said that to me. Just all in all in good fun and competition. But you were good at it, man. You were like the Larry Bird of the Community Church basketball. I was I was very witty back in those days. I I don't I don't know that I'm very witty now. You still are. You are absolutely to a tea a jokester. and it it just it's infectious to to be around, honestly. And I know we're just we're bromancing out right here, but we've just been through a lot. Like you helped me have as a kid, you pointed it out. I'm very not like I'm not very confident as a child nor as an adult. Like I I I like to say it's just me being humble, but it's really just a lack of confidence. I I'm very sure of like the few things that I know I'm good at, but I I never wanna come across braggadocious or anything like that. And I still always say like there's room for improvement. But as a child looking up to you, like you did have that that confidence to I I remember you getting up and like teaching lessons through youth group and like that was cool. Like that inspired me. So it's one of those things Sam talked about last week. Like you never know the younger generation watching you, like looking up to you. You never know when you're gonna be somebody's role model. And I think that just through the years I can pick apart certain stories. I'll always keep right here. I may never tell you but there were certain stories where I'm just like, I'm glad God put Michael in my life, right there at that moment, because that showed me A little bit more of confidence or that showed me a little bit more of how God the man should be or shouldn't be. Yeah. you've given me that example too of just like, hey man, here's all the things I've messed up in my life. Yeah. I I tell the kids too, you know, my kids and the youth kids, I used to tell them all the time, I like, you know, you you can be a great example what to do and what not to do. Yep. And it's it's it's up to you to decide what you're gonna be. And and either way, God's gonna use it as a Great example, one way or the other. I tell him all time, my dad didn't do a great job being a dad. He wanted to be a friend more than a dad. And I love him to death, but that's the truth of it. And I so I tell my children, I'm like, my dad was a great example of what a father should not do. Yeah. And I was like, so I'm not gonna do that. And it's not that it was bad. it necessarily God used that to teach me what a dad shouldn't do. And and and and trust me, I don't have anything right it it it's it's crazy you say that I you you were looking up to things. And I'm thinking I get up there and I teach those lessons and stuff and I'm like I wasn't I was actually more scared to do this podcast than teach those lessons as a kid to teach my peers. Yeah. And I was just so confident that this is what God was gonna use me in. And he wanted me to get up and talk. He wanted me to teach. And I was like, that's that's what we're gonna do. And you know, I wasn't doing it because I wanted anybody to learn anything. Cause I know, man, if you had put a microscope on my life, it was like I was probably a lot more lessons of what not to do than what to do. I do want to back up to kind of a epiphany that you shared with me, epiphany that you shared with me of you had it in your mind that you were gonna be speaking. You were gonna be doing something about teaching or just something speaking. And then if you remember, pick up where I'm leaving off here. You got put behind the scenes. And that's where the true talks with God started getting real deep. It's what you shared to me. So talk through that a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. you want to talk about humbling you. Like that, that was the thing. You know, Jeff talks about it all the time too. He was the behind the scenes guy. Yep. That's where he wanted to be. And it's funny because I tell him all the time we swap places. when I was growing up, I was like, I'm going to be the pastor of this church. Like this is what he wants me to be. I was so determined. Yeah, I was like, I was like, Teresa, that's why he brought me here. I'm going to be Dennis's replacement. And fast forward 20-something years, and now he's like, hey. I don't need you to do that. I need you to be the guy helping run Soundbooth. I need you to be the guy that helps produce a podcast. I need you to be the guy that's gonna do all the stuff behind the scenes to help the church move forward that no one's ever gonna see. Are you okay with that? And and honestly, I wrestled with God about it for a long time. And I was like, nah, nah. God, you know me, I can't do that. And and God said, Yeah, I know you and you can't do that. The question is, am I gonna let him do that? And that was a lot of faith buster right there. I was just like, how much how much is Michael getting in the way of what God wants to do with Michael? And and I was like, all right, I'll try it, and and some things led to putting me in the position where God put me, he's like, hey, the sound booth needs some help. Okay, I'm just gonna go there until I figure out what I'm gonna do on my next path to getting back to being, where I'm supposed to be. And then I just took a gravitation to it and I was just like, okay, I like doing this. It's a new, new thing. And I'm working and I'm working and I'm working. And then Jeff's like, you're really good at that. You do this. And then Jeff's like, I don't wanna go up and speak. And now he's on the pastoral team. And then next thing we know, he's getting introduced as the the next senior pastor. And I'm looking at like i in a way I'm looking at it and I'm like, man, that was supposed to be the path I was on. And then God's like, nah no, no, no, no. You thought Michael's path was that way, but God's path was never that. And then Jeff approached me and he's like, you know, hey, Josh has been talking about doing this podcast thing. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, cool. I'll be on your podcast. That was the first qu comment I had to Jeff. And he's like, No, no, no, no. I want to know if you wanna like help produce it. And I'm like, all the air went out of me, It's like it's like, okay, all right, God, you're you're really telling me this is where you want me. And then we went on this this leadership conference and a really heard God speak to me, he's like, no, what I need is you, I I use this analogy all time to be the motor. Right. You talked about it beforehand, I'm that guy that can can rally the troops and get things started. And sometimes we think that that's supposed to be the guy in front, right? And it's the engine that pools. And God showed me, he's like, no, no, no, no, no. Jeff has the the my plan for the church. And I've got people spearheading other things. What they need is they need a motor that's gonna never stop and gonna give 150% to drive their idea as far forward as it can go. And I was like, okay, that's what you've been prepping me for. You've been prepping me to be that guy who's that go-getter and that self-starter and that guy who's gonna go out and get things done. And I've honed that on my own in the military and at home and this thing. And then I come here and he's like, Now that you've learned how to do that, I need you to do it from behind. I need you to go behind the scenes. I need you to drive the project forward so that at the end of the day, when I look at it now, it's like that's what God is asking all of us to do. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, he doesn't want the glory to go to the Hunger and Thirst podcast. He doesn't want the glory to go to Grace Community Church. He wants the glory to go to him and his son. And he wants the glory to be pointed. Back towards him because even when we get to heaven, that's what we're gonna do, right? We're gonna worship, we're gonna sing, we're gonna love, we're gonna just be passionately in the adoration of him. And it's like we want everything to point back to him. So he's like, Michael, you were great when I could drive you, but sometimes Michael got in front of God. Yep. And I do that a lot of times, even in my adult life, and I have to take that step back. It's like he's humbling, he's teaching you through these lessons, even learning how to be behind the scenes. It's like that's reinstilling my faith. Understand that, sometimes my faith gets Michael out in front of the cross. And it's like I was never on there. I didn't take the lashes. I didn't get, murdered and then you know raised from the dead. I didn't do any of that. So why am I putting myself there in front of that? You know, it's and and and that's been a massive thing for me and my faith. Is like I come back from this leadership and I'm like, he wants me to just solve the problems that are stopping grace community from being able to allow the people he's putting In those places to be able to reach the people he wants. And it's like, that doesn't mean, I always reference the Billy Graham. I'm going to botch this thing, But like there was two young guys, they went to a tent revival and they walk into the tent revival and there's no seats by themselves. So they start to walk out, and this usher comes and grabs these two young 14-year-old boys. And says, hey, hey, no, no, we'll we'll make you a seat. And he he slides some people down, he puts two seats together, and these two guys they sit through the revival and they're just they get up and they're like, whatever, you know, and they go on, they hear this thing, and then they get on on fire for Jesus, and they're like, All right, this is what I'm gonna do. Those those people end up becoming Billy Graham and the guy who led all of Billy Graham's Crusades, the guy who did all the background work to Billy Graham's Crusades. And we're like, man, those two guys led millions. The thing is, is that Usher. Had more to do with leading those people together than than Billy Graham did. Because if that usher does not find those two seats together, Billy Graham never gets on fire, never follows the path God had for him. And and it's like, that's wild to think that that guy behind the scenes was just doing his job, was not on the stage. It wasn't what the preacher said. It wasn't what anything. What mattered the most is that that usher made the spot for Billy Graham and his his friend to sit there and hear the word. And that's what launched a movement that has reached more people than anything else. And that's wild. To me, God keeps playing that over and over. And he didn't really actually put that into my mind until after I start taking these steps to do this behind the scenes stuff. And I was just like, man, God, I there's no way this is what you've planned for me. There's no way that you haven't planned. And it's like, it's like sometimes we put ourselves so far in front of things that we don't realize that we're supposed to be the footnote to it all. You know, and and so he keeps replaying that story over and over. And he's like, You can be that usher. You may not be the guy who gets up and releases the powerful thing. You may not be the guy who speaks to that guy. I may not be the guy I tell everybody it's about planting that seed, right? one of the things that I learned, I I say I learned because I tried to impart it to the youth too, but I learned while I was in youth ministry was We're to plant the seed. We don't water it, we don't grow it. Yep. No pastor can make you love Jesus anymore. No revival can make you, love Jesus anymore. the thing is, only Jesus can can bring you into that relationship and grow that relationship. All our job is to plant the seed. It doesn't matter if I get up there and I give you two hours of sermon and and tell you all about the amazing things Jesus did, or if I just have a conversation and show you who Jesus is by doing something as simple as breaking up a fight and not giving. Up on them. Jesus says, plant the seed, he's gonna water it, right? He's gonna take care of it. He's the only one that can nurture it. All I have to do is introduce them. To Jesus. And whether that's through my actions, whether that's through my words, whether that's through anything I do, my worship, any of that stuff, you plant the seed and somebody's gonna be like, it's something as dumb as like, you know, you sit here and you talk about, I say dumb, it's not really dumb, but like you sit here and you're like, man, all these little things you used to do back in youth group. It's like planting those seeds, and it's like, I don't you don't even know sometimes you're planting the seeds. Yeah. And as Christians, we gotta watch that. We gotta be very careful because like our actions will dictate, you know, the seeds we plant. I do know Paul was very intentional about what he said to, you know, the different churches that he was writing to, the different believers. He talked about all of these things. And if you read the like any of the, you know, gospels that or any of the books that Paul wrote, I guess there were letters, but books in the Bible that Paul wrote, you At first I was reading it through a different lens of skepticism of is this guy legit? is he really like 'cause he's given them all these rules. He's saying it this way and it kinda comes across a bit cocky. And it it's just you scratch your head a little bit. And then the further you get to it, you really do see somebody that cares about the church and cares about just sp like The best way I could put it is just like the the fear of God put into him. If you understand his story on the road to Damascus, is like, no, he's just that fearful of God and he's relentlessly pursuing all of these people. that's what I see when I look at you and you did the incredible sacrificial thing of like serving for your country and you have come back and we'll get to that in a different, you know, day. Cause I I'm dying to not spoil that and get talking about it now because it's so easy to go into. But you have this relentless pursuit of just taking care of the folks that are around you. And that is a thing that's admirable. Like yeah you can fix all the, outlets around here, do electrical work and, you know, fix the camera angles and do all this stuff behind the scenes. But what I admired most about you is even in my points of, you know, the self doubt of I'm not a podcast host. I don't know what I'm doing, Michael. you've we sat in that parking lot multiple times. And I'm just like, dude, no one's gonna care what I have to say. I I just I feel this strongly about the word of God and like what it's done in my life. And I don't know how else to do it to just shout it from the rooftops other than into a microphone. You were one of the first ones there to be like, just keep going, keep going forward. And it takes They call mat carriers. The the guys that carry the mat lower their friend down to through the roof to have Jesus heal their friend. That's where Pastor Joby Martin talks about all the time. Like find you a mat carrier, somebody that's gonna be that bulldog when you need to be, like someone to be that motor, like you're saying. And I think it it parallels so nicely with your personal walk in faith and then you and I just growing up together and then coming back to the same very ch the very same church, going through all of these things as adults now. We've seen so many different as aspects of life and it it kind of comes full circle and we're not even we're in our thirties right now. So hopefully, Lord willing, we still got a lot of time left. But I think that's a testament of Those that are around you in those, younger days or in the dark days where, you had to fumble through. if we got into your full testimony, we'd be here for hours and we have worship nights and nice. But you you've proven time and time again that we will fall on our face, but just get up and keep going. You will get knocked out of your own way, as Sam put it so perfectly. But that's where the Lord needs you to be. He needs you to get knocked down. And it encapsulates perfectly what you've been talking about of just being torn down over and over and over again to be rebuilt in the image that God needs you to be rebuilt because it's never what you had in mind. A hundred percent. I have two heroes in the Bible. If you take Jesus out, my two favorite people in the Bible, because obviously he's the Trump guard, you know, he you can't really not but my two favorite people, I have one for Old Testament, one for New. It's David and it's Paul. And their stories are so polar opposite in moments and so aligned in some moments. Because for me, David was one of those guys who literally every moment he had this like. He's after God's own heart. And then, then he makes the mistakes of the Shiva. And he has people murder. And and I'm like, this guy literally is the guy that God chased through years over and over again. And then you look at you know, Paul, and when he was Saul, and he's he's murdering people, you know, he's murdering Christians who believe in Jesus. And then God says, It doesn't matter. I'll use anybody. It gives me the faith that's like Man, no matter how broken I am, because I mess up on a daily basis. I'm not gonna sit here and say that's not the case. I I I'm I'm human. There's flesh element to me, and I will sin and I will fall short of the glory of God every single day. The moment I wake up in the morning and take a breath in my air, it is flawed in my lungs, it is flawed. And the problem with that is like if we get so far down ourselves, like you know, you talk about how you were getting down yourself. It's like we if we get so far down on ourselves, I I used to teach a story about like being being being quantified, not qualified, right? We just need to be the number. We just have to show up and be the person and God is gonna do the rest. Like we are Unable to do it. I'm unable to help produce this podcast. I'm unable to video edit. I'm unable to help run the sound booth. I'm unable to teach. I'm unable to come on this podcast and talk most of the time. But like the thing is, is like God is. And that that's the biggest thing is like it's not about us because our flesh is going to fail us all the time. And if even failed Adam and Eve in the garden, their flesh failed them. Not God. Their flesh failed them. When they were walking and talking with with the Lord in a gar in a perfect garden. Yep. They they their flesh failed them then. So the further we get from from that perfection, the more flawed our flesh is going to be until the good Lord comes and takes us all home and we get those perfect bodies, those unsinning bodies. Our flesh is gonna make us fail day in and day out. And so we can look at those pillars of the faith. You talked about, Paul and and and all of his letters and stuff. And he was such a guy who was just so on fire. That that's me. I it's not that I want to speak to anybody and their ministry or anything like that from a point of authority, I know what I'm doing. Yeah. I try to approach them and and this is what I do with all all the ministries here. I just ask them, what are the issues? What can I do for you? You know, what can I do for you? What can I, you know, how can I help you? And that's what I try to do. I try I'm I'm trying to do that and and people like Paul and stuff have they leave big shoes to fill. Yeah. But if you read any of them, I I'm a big Luke fan. I know not a lot of people are Luke. I love the book of Luke when it comes to the gospels. But, you know, start looking at all these guys, and the one thing that you can find amongst all the early believers is that they are so on fire for the gospel. And like you said, Paul talks about stuff not from a point of authority, like he's given these rules, like this is what you should do because I think you should do it. He gives these because it's going to deepen these people. Walk with the Lord. And it's going to get them to the same thing he found. And he's so passionate about the man that blinded him and then unblinded him. And that, he is so passionate about this walk and this relationship with Jesus that he is willing to be like, you can hate me as long as you love him. And he just, he's such a motor, like you said. And that's why I try to be. I mean, a lot, I'm, I'm not everybody's taste. Anyone who knows me can tell you that I'm an acquired taste, but I'm going to get us there. Well you can hate me all you want. If it allows you to love Jesus a little more, it's a win for me. And that's exactly like in the book of Philippians, Jeff taught us this in our little disciple group. He's like, This is known as one of the most optimistic or happy books in the Bible. And just for context, Paul is writing this in a hole in the ground. Like a prison cell, writing one of the happiest, most joyful, you know, uplifting books 'cause it talks about just how amazing God is, how incredibly, you know, just profound his love is, and all of these great things. Like it is just a very if you read it without that context, you're just like, All right, well and then you realize he's standing in human waste and the only light he has is from the hole that's cut out, like the actual prison you can Google. image of it it it is not flattering to write a nice you know uplifting book like Philippians but I I think that's it's not surprising that that's one of your heroes from the Bible because I I've heard your testimony you stood on stage and gave it a long time ago. I'm lucky I was just visiting that one day. But I do like I said we will have to have a part two with Michael Keane because there is this Portion of, childhood getting up to adulthood, but there's this entire other wild ride. There's no other way to put it of your time in the service. And just with where we are where we are in the year, you know, coming up on Veterans Day. I thought, you know, what better time to sit down with you then and go over that story. So Michael, is there any other lessons just in landing the plan here? Is there any other lessons that you can reflect on that really just speak to you? It just simple way words to live by. man. I would say the biggest thing that's been probably everything for me is like if you feel you're unqualified to do it, that's exactly what you're gonna do. we've talked about it. You've said it a couple times with Jeff and and everybody else on here. The thing is, is like where where you say you don't want to be, that's where you're gonna be. You know, and and for me, it's always been like wherever you're the most uncomfortable is probably right where God wants you because growth is happening. Growth is uncomfortable. Yep. And so if it hurts, if it if if you're in the suck. It's probably a good thing. that's what we call it in the Marine Corps. If you're in the suck, it's it's a good thing. And I think God does the same thing. You know, He puts us in the suck a lot of times so that we grow not only as as humans, but as Christians. And and, you know, I think that the biggest thing is if it if it sucks right now, you know, we can have the faith that It's not going to for long. Yeah. and and this life is just a blink of an eye compared to eternity in heaven. And I know that that's always it's tough for non believers to to to honestly, hear that and be like, yeah, of course you can say that. but the the thing is is like when you find that peace, when you have that understanding that God is gonna give us this this this love and this this easement when we get to heaven, it's like all the pain that we deal with down here, all the crap that we have to deal with, the the things when times get hard, it it's worth it. And you know, that's the biggest thing I've learned in my life is when it's hard, it's probably right where you're supposed to be. Yep. I love that. And I think that's a good spot to put a pen in it for now. We could talk for hours, days. Yeah. We d we do sometimes. Yep. But Michael, God really has blessed you. You are doing awesome things around here. And a lot of this would not be possible without you. just thank you for your dedication to the church and your time. people don't realize you you're I get texts from you in the middle of the night when you should be sleeping because you work a full time job. And you're you're just pouring your heart and soul into these different projects. And I I don't think you get enough recognition. So thank you for all that you do. And it's not about the recognition, and I know that because I know where your heart is, man, and it's in the right place with the Lord. So I love you like a brother. And if you wouldn't mind, I know it's gonna make you super uncomfortable to do it on camera, but would you please pray us out? A hundred percent. All right. Dear Heavenly Father, we come to you today. We just, we pray for everybody who hears this, Lord, or sees this online, Father, that you just, we just plant a little seed, Father, whether it be with people who are, Christians with long walks longer than mine, Lord, or people just checking us out just for. Curiosity, Father, that you plant the seed so those people can get to know you, Father. We just ask that you continue to pour into your congregation, Father, not just the ones here at this church, but the ones all over the world, Lord, as we are one body of Christ. Father, we just ask that you can let everybody else understand that when they're in those hard times, Father, you're right there with them. You've got one hand on their shoulder and you're walking with them, not in front of them, not behind them, with them, right there in it when it gets tough. Father, we thank you each and every day. In your precious name we pray. Amen. Amen. All right, everybody. Y'all have a good week. Thanks again, Mike. Thanks.