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Classically Instructed · Mom Wars

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: From the front lines of the mom wars, here's Bethany
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Mandel and Kara Kennedy.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of your favorite podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I know I said last week that I was removing
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Kara's maternity leave, but I forgot to ask her. So
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: you're stuck with me alone again. One day I'll have
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: my co-host back with me. By then, maybe she'll have
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: another baby.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I'm terribly irresponsible at getting her on our podcast.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: But.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: In the meantime, I have a wonderful guest this week. Uh,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: her name is Julie April. She is the assistant headmaster
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: of a school. Maybe you've heard of it called Hillsdale,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: but it's Hillsdale Academy, not Hillsdale college. So. My first
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: question is going to be what's the difference if you
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: are not familiar with Hillsdale and you are of my
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: political persuasion, which presumably that's why you're listening to this podcast.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: you should get acquainted. And so I reached out to
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Hillsdale a couple months ago, because I wanted to have
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: you guys on to talk about like, I think a
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: lot of people know that you have this amazing, you know,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: college opportunity in Michigan, which is too cold, and you
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: should consider moving it. But in the meantime, you guys
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: have so much in the way of resources for folks
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: who are K through 12. And so I wanted to
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: have you on to talk about those resources, but also
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: to like zoom out a little bit and talk about
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: like the philosophy behind those resources. Because I think it's
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: all very interesting to my listeners, many of whom are
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: education minded and, and want to take charge of their
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: kids' education in a way that aligns with their values.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: So I guess my first question for you, Julie, is
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: what's the difference between Hillsdale College and Hillsdale Academy?
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, great question. Great to get to talk to you
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: about these things today, too. So thanks for having me.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: So Hillsdale College, you're familiar with it, a liberal arts
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: college in southern rural Michigan, and it is cold. But
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: it's a beautiful location and a beautiful campus. And I
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: think it's a small school doing great things.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: There's a huge outreach because in a sense, there's, I think,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: a great desire to come back to the foundations of
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: a liberal education and Hillsdale College is committed to that
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: vision and then sharing whatever it can with anybody who
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: wants to learn. And so it's very focused on its students,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: but it's also focused on teaching outwardly. And so one
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: of the expressions of that is Hillsdale Academy. So Hillsdale
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Academy is owned and operated by the college, but we're
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: just a small classical school in our town of Hillsdale, Michigan.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: And so we serve the local students in our community,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: and we offer a private classical education. The thing that's
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: so distinctive, I think, about Hillsdale Academy as a component
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: or part of Hillsdale College is that The college in
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: the late 1980s recognized the opportunity and the need to
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: serve local students with a back-to-basics traditional American education. And
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: so this school sort of represents the first inklings of
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: how the college could actually serve families who want this education,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: not just at the college level, but actually a beautiful
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: American education at the K-12 level. And that outreach has extended.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: So there is an entire office that's dedicated to serving
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: K-12 schools and also serving families who either are homeschooling
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: or are committed to their children's education. And so you're right,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: just as the college provides a lot of free learning opportunities,
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking about like the online courses that anybody can watch.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: They also have worked really hard to provide many, many
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: resources to families and schools who want to engage in
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: a classical education at the K-12 level. Yeah.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: So you're in Michigan at Hillsdale Academy. Is most of
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: your student base the children of professors and administrators and
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: all of those?
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're actually about half and half, actually. So there
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: are obviously a good amount of families who maybe the
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: parents are working at the college or are going to
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: be dedicated to this type of education. And so there's
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: easy alignment there. And this is a great school for
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: them to send their children to and know that their
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: children are being in an educated in a way that,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: you know, is aligned with the mission that they're living
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: out as, as faculty. But also we're really dedicated to
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: serving the local community. So we really, have students who
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: live here in our little town, but we actually have
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: students who drive as far as 45 minutes out to
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: come to our school.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I would. Yeah. I believe it.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: I would as well.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: So when I used to host a different podcast many,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: many years ago, my co-host fired me from our show
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: because he said I asked stupid questions, but I was like,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: I know the answer. This is just how you interview someone. Sure.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And I just had that memory as I was about
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: to ask this question that I know the answer to, but.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: I'm asking it on behalf of my listeners. I'm just
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: throwing it out there. So is this my only opportunity
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: for a Hillsdale K through 12 education if I live
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: in Hillsdale, Michigan, or is it possible for me to
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: obtain this kind of education somewhere else in the country?
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we could talk about that on
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: a broader sense. I think there is a renewal of
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: classical education happening in the K-12 realm across the board.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: So it's amazing to me how many opportunities, if you're
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: looking to figure out even what this education is, I
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: think there's a resurgence happening. And I've watched that happening
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: really over the last 20 to 30 years since I
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: entered into education. And I've been the recipient of of
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: really growing based on that renewal because I didn't receive
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: that type of education myself. And so I think that
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: we are one, you know, ideation of that with some
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: distinctives in that I think we're able to help and
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: serve in terms of classical education, but a college that's
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: really committed to thinking about what does it mean to
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: have a American liberal education? What was the education that
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: our founding fathers had and, What does it mean to
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: cultivate both moral, intellectual, but also civic virtues? So I
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: do believe there are some distinctives that any of the
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: resources or any of the ways that we're trying to
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: share what we have to offer with a larger community
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: offers some distinctly important things, but So that's kind of
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: broadly when I'm thinking about just the classical education across
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: the board and in particular in America. But then also,
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: you know, just to clarify, Hillsdale Academy is the only
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: school that's owned and operated by the college, but the
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: college serves, kind of supports just the growth of this
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: type of education across schools. even outside of our country,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: but there are many, many curriculum schools who use our
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: program guide and implement curriculum recommendations that we offer. There
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: are a select group of member schools that really serve
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: as models, and we give a lot of support to
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: those schools. And these can be charter schools or they
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: can be private schools. And then, you know, as I
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: mentioned before, There's a real commitment on the part because
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: this isn't something like we want to hold for ourselves, right?
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: We want to, we want to provide a really excellent model.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: We want to provide a really excellent education to our students.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: But from the inception of even this school, there's been
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: a desire to how can we help? How can we
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: help anybody who wants to learn? And so resource-wise, there
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: are many of our kind of key resources that anybody
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: who wants to learn and implement even in their own
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: home can utilize.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: So I want to ask one sort of clarifying question
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: for the woman who's sitting listening to this podcast right
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: now with her phone in her hand wondering what I
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: should Google to find if there's a Hillsdale podcast. Sisters,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: how exactly would you describe it? A Hillsdale supported school?
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Because presumably not everyone lives within a 45-minute radius of Hillsdale.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: And so for me, I live in Maryland. A listener
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: might be in Utah or California. How can folks find
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: an aligned school that is the recipient of your support? Right.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to mention this because I work at
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Hillsdale and I refer to this email site daily, multiple
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: times a day. So just a simple Google search of k12. hillsdale. edu.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: And basically that can take you, if you are, maybe
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: you're already connected to a school, maybe you're a parent
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: trying to figure out what is classical education, or if
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: you're someone looking very specifically for what resources, or you're
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: a teacher who wants to teach at a Hillsdale-related school,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: or you're a prospective parent and you're looking for, are
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: there any schools in my area? Basically, you can click
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: around on that website and find so much information.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: This week on Conservative Crossroads, the topic Is passage of
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the SAVE Act necessary to ensure election integrity? Don Palmer
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: says yes.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: It's absolutely necessary for our republic that citizens have sort
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: of a trust that their voting system is working and
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: verifying registrants to vote and that their ballot is counted.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Stephen Richer says no.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: For example, the 2024 presidential election did not require the
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: SAVE America Act. It was lawful. It was accurate. There
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: is no evidence of significant fraud or error. Donald Trump won.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Passage of the SAVE Act this week on Conservative Crossroads.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: Ricochet.
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: Join the conversation.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: When I used to work on Capitol Hill... I had,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: and not just on the Hill, but like at Heritage
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: or whatever, I had this internal game where I tried
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: to guess who the Hillsdale students were. And it was like,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: did the men open the door for me? Did they
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: call me ma'am, even though I was 26? All of
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: those things. And so I very quickly realized after I
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: worked at the Heritage Foundation and I had my first
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: crop of interns, there's something different about this place. There's something,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's like an egg or the chicken. Like,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if the special kids go to Hillsdale
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: or Hillsdale makes them special, but whatever it is, the
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: kids who come out of that place are amazing. And
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I ended up visiting the school 10 years ago. I
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: think I was pregnant with my nine-year-old and, and I
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: had the experience in person where I'd walk and the
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: men of these like young students would open the door
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: for me. I saw very few kids in sweatpants. It
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: was people wearing actual clothing, which is very impressive on
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a college campus. It was 10 years ago. Maybe people
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: wear sweatpants now.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: But can you give me a little bit of like
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: a history of Hillsdale? Because it is so unique and
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: it's so mission driven and it's really a really special place.
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: If folks are unfamiliar with Hillsdale, I should have started there.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: The college is over 100 years old. It was founded here.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: It's known for, I mean, it's such a beautiful place.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: It's from its inception. It took male and females in.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: any ethnicity, there was a high bar for admittance. I
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: remember reading, yes. But, you know, in 1844, it was
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: like you had to know a high degree of Latin.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was, it was obviously, it's always taken
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: education very seriously. But what I think is true in
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: its history is what's true of what ought to, what
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: is true of classical education and its best manifestations of
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: it demonstrated is that it's a human education. Its aims
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: for education are to make a man free, make a
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: man and a woman free, free to self-govern, a recognition
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: that it has a high view of man and it
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: has a high view of learning because it recognizes that
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: human beings were made to know and we thrive and
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: we're fulfilled by knowing and learning. And the way that
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: we do that is in community. And so I think
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: some of the things that you're seeing is a college
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: that hasn't, it's kept its mission or refined its mission
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: over time. I think about some of the ways that
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: that's lived out. The students at Hillsdale College actually have
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: a code of conduct that And that code of conduct
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: is reflective. It's not a large list of do's and don'ts.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: There's actually a great deal of freedom. There's a recognition
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: that man is free, but we're free within the framework
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: of virtue, right? How are we made to live and
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: how are we happiest? And so the best colleges and
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: the best K-12 schools imbibe that. And students who want that,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: they may not even be able to describe that going in.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, what 18-year-old really knows exactly what they want to,
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: they might be thinking, what do I want to study?
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: But they're less likely thinking, who do I want to
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: be when I leave? But it is hard to describe.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: But visitors who come both to the campus or come
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: to our school, just walk the halls of our school,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: there is something distinctly human. It's not formal, but I
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: would say that you do. You dress a little bit
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: for the occasion when you're excited about what you're doing.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: It looks different than wearing your PJs to college class.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: It's something worthy of your attention, and you're engaged in
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: conversation across the board. Hillsdale has kept a very solid
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: core curriculum there. And it's, you know, everybody's taking the
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: same classes or many of those same classes, right? Because
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: there's a belief that that content is actually necessary to
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: be an educated human being. And so that creates a
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: different kind of atmosphere where you're, you know, you're not,
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: what your unifying principle isn't that you were elite enough
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: to get into a particular college, but that you actually
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: want to learn kind of fundamentally human things.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm glad that you mentioned those sort of like
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: core books, because I pulled that up on my phone,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: and I was just browsing it, waiting for an opportunity
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: to read some of these. So English 104, which is freshman,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: I assume, because it's a hundred level class, Homer, the Iliad,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: and the Odyssey, Plato, Aristotle, Virgil, Old Testament, New Testament,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: like various books within the two, Chaucer, did I even
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: say that right? Dante. These are, this is stuff that I,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: as a 40 year old, I'm still teaching myself because
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't receive this kind of education. Right. It's, it's so,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: so important. And so I think that, that gives a
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: good bridge to sort of this like overall like conversation
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: that I wanted to have with you that zooms out
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: a little bit as to like, what is classical education?
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Like I I've read so much about it. And one
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: piece that I would actually really recommend is from the
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Tikva Institute, especially for Jewish listeners, like the sort of
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Jewish connection to classical education, because they're doing it really,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: really well for the Jewish community. Love that. Yeah. And
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I think, I think it is, you know, there's so
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: much overlap with Charlotte Mason and, and I've talked a
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: lot about Charlotte Mason on previous podcasts, but I am
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: so inspired by the classical model. And I think that
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: we need a, we need a return to how we
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: used to do education. But I I'm curious, like the
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: elevator pitch, if you're talking to a new parent, who's like,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with my kid. I
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: don't know too for my kid. How do you sell
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: them on this kind of education that you're offering at
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Hillsdale Academy? Yeah.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Well, I think fundamentally what I always think about is
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: what is an education for, right? And so you mentioned
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: cohesion or with Charlotte Mason, and there's a real recognition
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: there of what is a human being, right? And then
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: in education, its aims ought to serve that. Those two
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: things have to align. And so I think we could
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: talk about classical education in a lot of details in
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: But fundamentally, it's an education that is for its own
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: sake because it recognizes that human flourishing requires that we
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: both grow in knowledge and wisdom and virtue.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: And so what is education for if it's merely knowledge
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: that's leading to utility?
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yes. This is something that when people ask me my
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: homeschool philosophy, I always kind of offer the question of
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: what's the purpose? What are you trying to accomplish? Look
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: at the end goal and who do you want? Do
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you want someone who can work doing XYZ job as
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: an engineer or as a speechwriter for a senator? Me, personally,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: I want to raise children who love God, love their family,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: want a family, and are excited to keep learning. Like
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I'm 40 years old and trying to read Plutarch for
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the first time by myself. I want to raise children
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: who at 40 years old are not reading Plutarch for
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: the first time, but who are realizing the gaps that
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: they've had in their education because no education is complete,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: but that I am raising children who are enthusiastic readers
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: and learners no matter what they do.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: I think too, a part of that is recognizing that
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: in classical education, what you learn is formative for the
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: human being, right? So you're 40 and you're reading Plutarch
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: for the first time, or those college students who are
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: reading the Odyssey and the Iliad. And to be frank,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: our students and all of those books that you read,
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: our students and our high school are reading those too.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: But appropriate. The discussions are appropriate, their first level of understanding.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: But recognizing that content is so rich that I could
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: go back to that repeatedly for my lifetime. That's really
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: clear to us when we think about our sacred scriptures.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: We don't just read them one time and kind of
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: check the box or we don't think, well, how do
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: I use this for something useful for me? It's like, no,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: we dwell on those things because we, one, it's just,
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: it's making us who we are and we believe that
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: we're contemplating things that we're designed to become, right? And
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: even if you're exploring, you know, that solid base of
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: that foundational content that worthy content, so really rich, good literature,
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: understanding how rich, good literature is connected to political thought,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: studying political thought, allows you to, you know, think about ideas.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: And those are the things where like, that's where we
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: flourish when we can think about ideas, and then how
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: do those, you know, impact kind of how we live.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: We're not, you know, even if you think about how
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: you study science, you know, you explore the natural world
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: and that creates curiosity in your thinking about how things
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: are formed and how they're related to one another. And
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: everything that we learn in a sense ought to be
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: opening up the world larger to us and make us
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: more and more curious. And so I think, you know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: if you think about it, if you neglect those principles
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: or you've kind of forgotten that that's the important thing
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: key human element of education. That's when you can, you know,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: it's not that utility isn't important or that we don't
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: figure out ways to use to, you know, learn to
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: do things that we love to do or to use
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: our knowledge in order to, you know, serve a greater good.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: But that's not the key focus of what an education
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: begins with.
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: I'm Greg Karambas. Join Jim Garrity of National Review and
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: me each weekday for the Three Martini Lunch podcast. We'll
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: give you the good, bad, and crazy news of the
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: day and lots of laughs too. Find us right here
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: on the Ricochet Audio Network at ricochet.com or wherever you
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: get your podcasts.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I am thinking as you're talking about that, and I'm
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: thinking about that incredible cover piece in the Atlantic this month.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you saw it, the death. Oh,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: you should read it.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, actually I go ahead, finish the title because I
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: did actually, I think I read a component of that.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: The death of literacy, I think it was called. And
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: the TLDR, I'm actually, I have an ask out to
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: the Atlantic to see if I can have her on
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: the podcast, the author of that piece, because it was chilling.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: But when you said, you know, the importance of literature in,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: you know, how we operate in our personal lives. It
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: teaches us a set of morals, but it also teaches
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: us a framework for how do we think about politics.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I thought to that, and I thought, well, if kids
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: and adults alike are not reading anything past the length
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: of a tweet or a Tik TOK, no, right. What
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: is this world going to look like? And so I,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I feel when I meet, um, when I meet Hillsdale students,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: but also my, my daughter went to a YAF, Young
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Americans Foundation, she went to a YAF middle school program recently.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And I was blown away by these kids. They were
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: so incredible. And I thought like, these are the kids
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: that are going to save America. These are so well
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: read and well spoken and just intentional human beings, even
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: though they're half the size of an adult they have
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: more intelligence and maturity in their little finger but it's
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: it's really terrifying when you think i to me there's
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: not enough kids that were receiving this kind of education
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: that's part of why i wanted to have you on
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: because i wanted to sort of i know i have
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of new mom listeners sure yeah open their
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: eyes to like what what do you want to do
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: and and what do you want to accomplish with your
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: kids education And obviously, I wish I lived near Hillsdale
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: and could just send my kids to your school. But
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: there's so much and I just I kind of wanted
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: to like delve a little bit into like all the
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: things that you guys have available. Sure, which I just
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: found out about this week that I want to send
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: my kids on you have a high school study abroad
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: program for two weeks, where you read Churchill in the Hillsdale,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: at Hillsdale. And then you get on a plane to
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: London and France.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And you go to Normandy. And my number one question
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: for you is, can I do it? I don't want
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: to send my 17-year-old. I want to send myself.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: That's great.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: You have all of these offerings. I am like so
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: plugged in. And I just learned about this program this week.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: And I'm so grateful that I learned about it when
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: my oldest daughter is only 13, because there's still time.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: But what, what offerings do people have that they can
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: sort of avail themselves of just like rattle them off?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Because they're right?
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so many. So, you know, you mentioned just literacy, right?
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Just literacy. So great recommendation and a resource that you,
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: that you can, you can look into and you can
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: find on the website called, called Literacy Essentials. So I
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: always think about that because it is the starting block.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: When you think about language acquisition and you think about
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: a student or a child, you know, what is one
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: of the most, what is the fundamental human thing, right? Is,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: is that we can speak because we can think and
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: because we, That communication component is like the essence of.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Who we are.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Related to that, book recommendations that you can find on
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: the K-12 website.
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: Khilsdale.edu.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, k12. hilsdale. edu. A newer resource that I love that is
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: just beautiful, you can also find it there, is called
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Core Virtues. Oh, yes. There's that. Don't let me forget
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: that one. Core Virtues. So there's a Core Virtues website.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: So let's just say that you are going to read
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Wind in the Willows with your child. You can look
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: at what are the classical virtues, definitions of those things,
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: but you can also look at what's found within that
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: particular book. There's a lovely, there's even a blog called
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: connected to that book with specifics actually written by our
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: fifth grade teacher here, a lovely teacher. So resource interest
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: in terms of when you're thinking about education for the
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: human being and that it can't be disconnected from the
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: teaching of virtue. That's a beautiful resource that's available there.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: You can, in terms of when you're thinking about American history,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: And civics, so many excellent resources there from recommendations of
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: books like Land of Hope written by Dr.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: So I have an ask out to him, and I
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: think he's going to come on the show.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: You should definitely have him. He's wonderful. He's fascinating. And
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: that book, I remember, Bethany, I actually was a homeschooling
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: mother myself. I have three children and two of them
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: I homeschooled through eighth grade. And the teaching of history
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: was the thing that intimidated me the most.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Really? It's the thing that I love. The math is
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: what intimidates me. Yes.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: Well, it's never ending, right?
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: How much?
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: And then to tell a story simply, you have to
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: know the content so deeply, right? The teaching of history
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: is a story. There's so much story to know. And then,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: you know, it can get a little bit sideways where
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: am I teaching a political persuasion or am I teaching
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: history and teaching my children a story? So Land of
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: Hope is such a, and there's a middle school version
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: of that and a high school version of that.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: So helpful.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: Just lovely textbooks. There are, you can hop on the
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: website and you can see online a whole American history curriculum.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: like just free curriculum, as well as civics curriculum. You
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: can watch videos of teachers from Hillsdale-affiliated schools teaching with
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: excellent pedagogy lessons that come from that curriculum. You can purchase.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: So Hillsdale is very committed to offering free resources. And
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: so you can access any of this online, but you
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: can also purchase if you want, like in your hands online.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: the curriculum. So I just have looking at ninth grade.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad you picked that up. I printed it
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: all out because I have an amazing printer that I
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: can print a million things and I never have to
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: replace the ink. But I was tempted to buy the
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: physical copy.
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: Getting these in your hands are just so good. I
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: love these because the thing about all of these resources,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: particularly for history and civics, there's a pedagogy that's kind
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: of contained within them. So one of the things that
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: was intimidating to me was there's so much to know
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: about history. How do I know what to teach? How
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: do I know what resources to trust?
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: So there's there's really clear leaning into primary resources. Like,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: why go there when I can actually read the real
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: thing and discuss that? But then, you know, classical education
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: is thinking about, you know, we're not just like receptacles
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: to just receive information, but we we have to engage
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: in it. Like we're designed to ask questions. And so
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: contained within these are just excellent questions for discussion, like
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: food for thought. Sample assessments and assignments. Obviously, nobody has
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: to take any of these and exactly walk it out
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: in a particular way in your homeschool or in your classroom.
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: But really good examples of what you could use that
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: would be thoughtful and that assessments actually tell a student
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: what's important and why you study a thing. So having
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: models like that, I think, are really important.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: You also have videos that accompany... The civics stuff, right?
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: So yeah, so you could hop on and watch anything
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: from a kindergarten teacher teaching a lesson with like real
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: students in the classroom to 12th graders sitting in a
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: civics classroom, a government. We have a, in our curriculum,
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: we have a full year, their senior year of where
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: they're learning civics and government. And they primarily are reading
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: primary source documents, American founding documents, and and discussing those.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: And so you can kind of even just see what
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: that could look like in a classroom. So to me,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: I think that's one of the things if you're teaching
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: or even homeschooling, I often wondered, how do I know
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: if I'm hitting the right spot, besides trying to just
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: find some standardized test. And so when I could see
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: a model of somebody teaching or what kinds of questions
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: people ask, that was really helpful to me. That's true
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: for teachers across the board. We're busy in classrooms, but
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: if we can step outside of our classroom and watch
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: someone else teach something, that's always really helpful. So yes,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: the college offers, and some of these are linked that
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: are connected to the curriculum recommendations that we make, but
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: lots of free online courses that anybody can watch.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Just about to say, adults.
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, adults.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: This is one of the things I love about homeschooling
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: is I feel like I'm teaching myself and I've watched.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Hillsdale college online classes. You can just walk and they're
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: so well produced.
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: Actual videographers doing there. They're beautifully produced. My husband and
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: daughter like to do them together and they'll kind of
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: do the quizzes. You can even take quizzes and they
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: could do that. They do those together. And I think
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: that's fun. I like, there's a lot of them are
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: even offered on, on a podcast version now. And so I,
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: I use those a lot because I can be getting
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: ready in the morning and I can be listening and
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: I really enjoy that. There are also, you can on
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: the website, you can find events. So one of my favorites,
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: and this is really more accessible when you ask, you know,
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: how do I find a school near me? Because I
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: don't live 45 minutes away from Hillsdale. Seven times a year,
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: the K-12 education office from the college offers basically a
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: free conference. And anybody can attend that. And it's held
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: in various cities around the country. And usually there are
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: about seven of those and they cover different topics. So
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: it might just be something like the art of teaching,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: or it might be something like the art of teaching
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: math and science, the art of teaching literature. And so
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: oftentimes college professors are teachers from our school or maybe
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: members of the K-12 office will present on those topics.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: And so you can find those locations. That's one of
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: my favorite. I've been to so many of those and
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: I never tire of those.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I was just on the online courses and I think
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: I see your, is that you there? Is that you? No,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: she looks great.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: That's not me. That is Carrie Brown. She's a kindergarten
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: teacher at Hillsdale Academy.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: But I love you have, 17 lessons here, teaching American
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: history and civics grades K through two, and it's a
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: three hour and it goes through the entire spectrum of
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: K through two, nine through 12. As a homeschooling parent,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I think the number one difficulty is just the second
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: guessing myself of like, am I doing enough? And realizing
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: with that horrible hit of like, I didn't do that enough.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't do that right. I did that too long
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: ago and thought that I checked that box and I
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: really didn't. And so I find resources like this as
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: like professional development as a homeschool parent to be incredibly helpful.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, when your kids are older, when
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: they're like seventh, eighth, ninth grade, you can put them
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: in front of Hillsdale College courses and have Larry Arnn
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: teach them about the Constitution. And I want to shout
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: out Larry Arnn for a second, the president of Hillsdale College.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: he has a bust of Winston Churchill at the college.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: And to me, that is the ultimate sign. This is
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: the second time I'm mentoring Winston Churchill on this podcast,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: but that is the ultimate sign to me that like
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: we are aligned. I met Brandon Gill, representative Brandon Gill
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: the other day, and he told me that his son's
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: name is Winston. And I was like, oh, I like you.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: You're my people. Yes. Dr.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Arne is a scholar of Winston Churchill. And every time
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: he talks, you know, speaks or even references him. You know,
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: I learned something new and I love the, there's an
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: embodiment of that kind of spirit that you have to
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: have when you're committed to preserving something worthy to preserve. Right.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: And that's what I think Hillsdale is, is like the
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: preservation of America for this next generation of everything that
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: our country was built on. And I feel like when
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: the apocalypse hits and if we like, you know, there's
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: some sort of, you know, Atlas shrugged civil war or something,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Hillsdale will come out of the fire and be like,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I got you guys.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think there are fundamental human things and
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: they're precious. And so you have to teach them and
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: you have to preserve them. and it's not for the
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: sake of kind of holding on to old things. It's,
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: it's for the sake of like holding on to true things, right. To,
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: to good things. And so.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. I really appreciate you taking the time.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: This was a really lovely conversation. There's nothing I love
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: talking about more than, you know, this, these foundational principles of,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: of what I wish I had had growing up, but
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: that so many children have. And I just want to
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: thank you guys at Hillsdale because all of these resources
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: are free and that's bonkers. And so thank you to
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: your donors, perhaps I should say.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: Oh yes, we should definitely. I mean that, yes, that's
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: the beautiful thing, right? I think, I mean, I was
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: going to say to you, I just think serving moms,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: families who want to basically have something for themselves and
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: then secure it for their children. And I think that
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: it's a brave work because our tendency is to kind
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: of buy into that. We need to like, you know,
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: secure a particular kind of future for our children and
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: really like, right. We need to, we need to secure
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: their flourishing, right.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Their opportunities.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: And so, yes, you're right. It's generous donors who want
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: that for their country and for citizens who make that
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: possible and, And then I think we feel really privileged,
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: I know I do, to play any small part in that.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: And it's mostly because I've been the beneficiary myself. And
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: I've also known what it's like to kind of have
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: those curiosities for what could be, but not know how
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: to give that to my children. And then, you know, Bethany,
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: like when you just mentioned what you're reading, those elements
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: of how basically pursuing this kind of education, like deciding
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: on that and going all in, is you're basically, it
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: does a work within the whole family, right?
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: It does.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: And so I think that's really beautiful. We're glad we
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: can help in a small way. And we try to
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: help in really big ways. And I think they're really,
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: if anybody needs the support or is looking for it,
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: look into these resources. They're fundamental and they're really excellent.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they really are. And I really appreciate you taking
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: the time. And I should have thrown in a joke
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: about how, you know, we were getting all of that
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: FAFSA money, all of that federal funding, but there is no,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: that was like one of the first things I learned
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: about Hillsdale. And I was like, oh, interesting, because the
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: money comes with strings. And so Hillsdale says, no, thank you.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: We'll go it alone.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: No, not one penny.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. All right. Thank you so much. So folks can
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: go to k12hillsdale. edu for so many of these resources. Thank
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: you so much for taking the time. And I'd love
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: to have you come back as like more sort of
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: things or as you're churning more stuff out. I'd love
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: to continue the conversation. about classical education because it could
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: be a podcast in itself. Yep. Yep.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: I'd be happy to come back.
• 39:35
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• 39:38
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• 39:41
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• 39:42
  Speaker 2: and it's deeply appreciated. Until next time, saddle up.
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: Ricochet!
• 39:57
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