Latest / Money In Motion with Klaas Financial / Critical Considerations

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Critical Considerations · Money In Motion with Klaas Financial

0:00
And that means our phone lines are open for you right now. If you've
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got a question for our retirement planning professionals from Class Financial love to have you
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join us this morning. I'll gets pick a phone, give us a call
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telephon number here at station six oh eight three two one thirteen ten. That's
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six oh eight three two one thirteen ten. We'll get you on the air
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this morning with CJ. Closs and Nate Briby of COLSS Financial. Don't forget.
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You can learn more about Class Financial on their website Class financial dot com.
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That's Class k l aa s financial dot com. Great website. Not
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only I can listen back to the podcast and subscribe there sign up for the
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weekly Market Pulse newsletter. You can learn more about Class Financial their separate divisions.
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Learn more more about the team as well. All at Cossfinancial dot com.
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That's k l aa s Financial dot com. They're telephone number six oh
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eight four four two five six three seven. No charge for the Tonationial'll get
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to know you appointment tech Loss Financial. It will be complimentary to you again
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their number six oh eight four four two five six three seven. And joining
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us this morning are Claws and a Briby CJ. How you doing this morning?
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I'm doing great. How are you, Sean? I'm doing really well.
1:04
Great to talk with you, Nate. How have you been? Hi?
1:07
Sean, doing good. Happy to be back. It's great to have
1:11
you both along. Great to have you back, Nate. And I wish
1:14
I always you know, I we love talking with Malie and I wish she
1:17
was here this morning because I think she's got a lot to do with the
1:19
website. You guys update the website pictures, and I'm the one that always
1:23
points out on the website pictures good. There's a picture of slices of watermelon
1:29
which looked delicious with mint leaves on them. And I'm curious, have you
1:33
either of you had watermelon with mint leaves on set? Watermelons? Nope,
1:38
nope, but it sounds good. Does sound good? Nate, you're a
1:42
nope as well. Yeah, a little sugar, a little salt. I've
1:44
done both of those, but never admit. So if the when is when
1:48
Malia's back with us next week, I'll ask her about that. These are
1:51
the important things that we tackling. I thought, Sean, you're going to
1:55
talk about my golf slice. Yeah, my slice on the golf course.
1:59
I thought a picture of me swinging a lead last night. Oh yeah,
2:04
well that so it's interesting you mention that too as we talk about the different
2:08
all the advisors and getting to know everybody. One of the cool things I
2:12
know Nate, when you go to your photo on the page, you're also
2:15
a skier as well, so uh so well rounded. Yeah, I got
2:19
a little summer a little winter activity as well. We've got an important and
2:23
a really good conversation d We're going to be talking about some advanced planning topics
2:27
when it comes to financial planning topics with CJ and Nate this week. Phone
2:30
lines are open if you've got a question six oh eight three two one thirteen
2:35
ten. That's six soh eight three two one thirteen ten before we get rolling
2:38
on this week's conversation. Other really cool thing that goes on on the program
2:42
is the Class Quiz Question the week. Your chance to win a fantastic prize
2:46
this week is no exception. Our friends from Class Financial have provided a twenty
2:50
five dollars gift cards to target. Tell you but later on the program,
2:53
how you can win that. A little tip is oftentimes both the question and
2:55
answer to the Class Quiz question week come up during the program, so it
3:00
pays in multiple ways to listen closely, and again we'll tell you a little
3:04
bit a little bit later on all the details on how you can win that.
3:07
And before we get rolling on this week's conversation, let's actually look back
3:10
at last week's program, the class quiz question the week at the question and
3:14
answer there as well. Nate Yes, and as always, thanks everyone for
3:19
listening, and congrats to our winner from last week, Joel of Madison,
3:23
who correctly answered the question which was a fill in the blank question asking asset
3:30
allocation in your portfolio is typically comprised of stocks, bonds, and the correct
3:37
answer was cash. So thanks again Joel for calling in grilly really good program
3:42
last week as well. If you missed any of that show, or miss
3:45
say today's program, don't forget. You can always listen back at classfinancial dot
3:49
com. That's closs k l aas financial dot com. So the folks,
3:53
today's program is surrounding some areas of some advanced financial planning topics and what are
3:59
some of those CJ Some of those topics or concepts our listeners should understand as
4:03
they plan for a successful retirement. Yeah, good question. Sean and I
4:10
have one of our financial planning what we call super nerds on the air with
4:13
me today in Nate Briby, and so we were as we were preparing for
4:16
the show, we decided to kind of kick it up a notch and focus
4:19
on some more advanced financial planning topics and concepts that people should be considering as
4:25
they plan for a successful long term retirement. Now, many of our listeners
4:30
have heard us kind of regurgitate basic financial planning topics over the years, but
4:35
for today, you will be hearing topics and concepts that we have never discussed
4:41
on the air over the past fifteen years we've been doing the show. Therefore,
4:44
if you've been listening for quite a while, listen closely because you'll probably
4:47
learn something new today. But during today's program, we will be covering the
4:51
following three topics. Topic number one will be around nominal returns versus real returns
4:59
and how critical they are in long term financial planning assumptions and projections. Topic
5:04
number two will be around arithmetic versus geometric means and how important they are in
5:11
managing expectations and in building a reasonable retirement portfolio distribution. Rate, and topic
5:17
number three will be around sequence of returns, risk in the early years of
5:21
retirement, and how to mitigate the risk with acid allocation. This is going
5:26
to be They're always good, but this is going to be especially interesting.
5:30
I'm looking forward to getting into all three of those topics. So and it
5:33
sounds like we're in for a heck of a treat So, Nate, let's
5:35
begin with that first topic, nominal returns versus real returns. What if folks
5:41
need to know there? Yep, Let's begin with a simple definition of nominal
5:46
returns, which is the total rate of return earned on an investment before deducting
5:50
things like inflation, taxes, and fees. Basically, you can think of
5:55
a nominal return as the gross rate of return. Conversely, real returns are
6:02
accounting for taxes and inflation, so this is the net return which actually increases
6:08
your purchasing power, which is key. Therefore, real returns will always be
6:14
lower than nominal returns. Talking this morning with CJ. Closs and Nate Briby
6:20
and talking this week about some brand new topics something we haven't talked about in
6:26
the past, which is some advanced planning topics. Don't forget if you've got
6:29
a question for CJ or Nate. Love to have you this morning three two
6:32
one thirteen ten. That's three two one thirteen ten. You can learn more
6:35
about Class Financial online at cossfinancial dot com. That's coss k l AA S
6:41
Financial dot com at telph number six o eight four four two five six three
6:45
seven. No charge for that initial get to know your appointment at Class Financial.
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It will be complementary to you again their number six oh eight three two
6:51
one thirteen ten. Nate, sounds like you cut out a little bit there,
6:55
uh, but should be back and what were you saying there? Yep?
6:59
So on. Inflation is known as the silent killer, erodes the purchasing
7:03
power of your money over long periods of time. Simple examples of inflation can
7:09
be seen when comparing the cost of a gallon of milk in nineteen seventy four,
7:13
which was believe it or not, seventy two gallon seventy two cents for
7:16
a gallon, versus a gallon of milk today in twenty four, averaging closer
7:20
to three dollars. So obviously a gallon of milk has the same utility function
7:26
we call it fifty years later, but it simply costs more. Now,
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year after year, you may hardly recognize the impact of modest inflation, but
7:35
decade over decade, the compounding effect has huge impacts. When building a retirement
7:41
plan, you must account for this reduction and purchasing power. Given that inflation
7:46
has averaged about three percent per year over the past one hundred years, we
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can use the rule of seventy two and determine that your dollar today will lose
7:55
fifty percent of its purchasing power in just twenty four years. Therefore, it
8:01
is imperative for retirees to keep their assets growing at at least the rate of
8:05
inflation, which, if you're falling along, would be a real return of
8:09
actually zero. As a side note, one of the biggest errors we see
8:13
with DIY investors is using nominal returns in their calculations. They may simply open
8:20
up Excel and do a future value calculation with nominal returns and say, if
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I add this much to my four O one K for twenty years and earn
8:28
six percent, I will retire with this much money, which may be true
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if the return assumption holds, but one million dollars today and twenty years does
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not excuse me one million dollars in twenty years is not worth one million dollars
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today because of inflation. Once again, the tricky part is that you may
8:46
not see the detrimental effect of this compounding inflation until later into your eighties or
8:52
nineties. Fantastic stuff and real quick, Nate, your your connection kind of
8:58
cut out there that we're talking that previous question just about about kind of the
9:03
difference of nominal versus real returns and is there kind of a way to kind
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of really break that down, kind of make those make those definitions as simple
9:13
as possible. Yeah, yep, yep. So once again, real returns
9:18
are returns after accounting for inflation, fees, and taxes. So a nominal
9:24
returner would be a gross return saying I make eight percent on an investment,
9:28
you know, but you have to subtract out three percent for inflation. So
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maybe you're your real return is closer to five percent or somewhere closer to that
9:35
number. Really important stuff to uh to know and understand some very interesting concepts
9:41
as well. As we talk this week with CJ. Coss and Nate Bribe,
9:43
our retirement planning professionals from Coss Financial to website costs Financial dot com.
9:48
That's cost k l a a s Financial dot com. Great website site and
9:52
resource to learn more about the folks at Costs Financial. Their telephone number six
9:56
so eight four four two five six three. No charge for that initial get
10:01
to know your appointment tech Costs Financial. It will be complimentary to you again
10:05
their number six oh eight four four two five six three seven. Or if
10:09
you have a question, love to get you on the air this morning with
10:11
Nate and CJ. Telphe number here at the station. It's the same as
10:13
it's always been six oh eight three two one thirteen ten. That's six soh
10:16
eight three two one thirteen ten. We're gonna get more into real returns.
10:20
We will do that next and take your call as Money in Motion with COSS
10:24
Financial continues here at thirteen ten Wiva. If you got a question for our
10:31
retirement planning professionals, phone lines are open six oh eight three two one thirteen
10:35
ten. That's six oh eight three two one thirteen ten. If you missed
10:37
that first segment, by the way, you missed a lot. I definitely
10:41
urge you to go back and listen at Cossfinancial dot com. That's coss k
10:46
l Aasfinancial dot com. Nate was kind of explaining the importance of real returns
10:50
and what they what the effect they have on net inflation. It was it
10:56
was pretty There's a lot of information there. Again, even if even if
10:58
you were paying attention, you probably want to listen back at colssfinancial dot com
11:03
or tough one number to make an appointment six oh eight four four two five
11:05
six three seven. No charge. That initial gets to know your appointment and
11:09
conversation at COSS financial. It will be complementary to you again their number six
11:13
oh eight four four two five six three seven. I mentioned the website class
11:16
financial dot com. That's coss k l a as financial dot com. So
11:20
CJ what do folks need to know about topic number two regarding a rhythmic arithmetic
11:28
versus geometric mean calculations? And I also feel like I needed a dictionary or
11:35
some type of high level pronouncer per pronouncer this is, I know, so
11:39
it's arithmetic versus geometric mean calculation. So as I get into the section,
11:45
just to re reemphasize what Nate was just going over there. So often when
11:48
you like watch a watch a video, a YouTube reel or a little financial
11:54
expert saying if you just stop drinking your Starbucks and take that three dollars a
11:58
day and put it in something earning eight percent, you're gonna end up with,
12:03
you know whatever, a million dollars by the time you retire. That
12:05
is almost always, not always, but almost always a nominal return calculation,
12:13
okay, And so your brain is calculating the value of the million dollars in
12:18
the future in today's purchasing power. Now, as n A just went through,
12:22
you can't do that. You cannot do that because fifty years down the
12:26
line, when you get to retirement and you made that fifty year decision not
12:30
to buy a Starbucks, which by the way, I support that decision.
12:31
I'm just saying you need to understand the accurate calculation of that, because it
12:37
is not the nominal return that will impact your purchasing power. It is the
12:41
real return that is nominal minus inflation, taxes and fees. So when you
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run these calculations, as you can imagine for people like us, we're running
12:48
twenty thirty, forty year calculations all the time, and people don't come to
12:54
us for a hypothetical view of retirement. They come to us for an accurate
12:58
calculator of where they can be. They come to us to find out if
13:03
they should retire, right, and these are decisions that you cannot reverse on.
13:07
So I just cannot emphasize to you all enough. If a gallon of
13:11
milk can go from seventy two cents to three point fifty, or if a
13:15
home can go for thirty five thousand dollars to four hundred and fifty thousand dollars
13:20
an average cost of a home, then it means there is something in this
13:24
nominal versus real calculation. And so you know, big push here on what
13:28
Nate just mentioned. You must must must be doing real return calculations when you
13:35
are projecting for retirement. Okay, now, if your heads aren't spinning enough
13:39
on that kind of nominal versus real return topic, then I'll be sure to
13:43
get them spinning now as we talk about arithmetic versus geometric mean calculations. So,
13:48
like my colleague Nate did on the last topic, let me begin with
13:52
a simple definition. According to Investopedia, an arithmetic mean is the sum of
13:56
a series of numbers divide by the number of items in that series. In
14:03
more common language, we generally refer to this as the average of a data
14:07
set. In investment or portfolio return calculations, we often refer to this as
14:13
the average return of an investment or portfolio over long periods of time. Okay,
14:18
so simple enough again, arithmetic mean, what are we talking about here?
14:22
An average of a series of data sets? And then what does that
14:24
mean? In portfolio management the average return if you're taking like an annual return
14:30
over a long period of time. But conversely, according to Investopedia, a
14:35
geometric mean is calculated by taking the product of these numbers and raising it to
14:39
the inverse of the length of the series. The geometric mean is best used
14:46
to calculate the average of a series of data where each item has some relationship
14:50
to the others due to serial correlation. Now most of you are going,
14:54
oh my gosh, what are you talking about, So let me give this
14:58
to you more simplistically. When evaluating an investment return or portfolio return of a
15:03
grouping of investments, it's critical to use geometric mean calculations given that they account
15:11
for the impact of prior earnings and compounding. The geometric mean considers the compounding
15:16
that occurs from period to period, whereas the arithmetic mean does not. The
15:22
longer the time horizon, the more critical the compounding becomes, and the more
15:26
appropriate the use of what's called a geometric mean. So imagine talking about investment
15:33
returns but removing the positive or negative impact of compounding. Nobody would do that.
15:39
As a matter of fact, everybody says you invest because of compounding.
15:43
Right. So the reality is when you hear somebody talk about average returns of
15:48
the market, they're often talking about the arithmetic mean. When somebody says I'm
15:52
going to use that the geometric mean calculation of the markets over time, they're
15:58
taking into effect the positive or negative compound. Talking this morning with CJ.
16:02
Closs and Nate Briby are retirement planning professionals from Class Financial. You thought school
16:07
was out silly, getting a great education this morning from CJ and Nate.
16:11
Don't forget if you miss any part of the program. You can always listen
16:14
back at classfinancial dot com. That's css K l a a AS financial dot
16:18
com And they're telephon number six oh eight four four two five six three seven.
16:22
No charge for that initial gets to know you appointment ach Class Financial.
16:26
It will be complimentary to you again their number six oh eight four four two
16:30
five, six, three seven. It's great stuff, cj In and really
16:33
good information. Let's kind of then bring it back around to what has to
16:37
do with planning for a successful long term retirement? Yeah, yeah, good
16:42
point, John. It's like, that's interesting, but what does this have
16:45
to do so great question. The reason this matters is because you will experience
16:52
the geometric mean when investing in stocks and bonds over a long period of time
16:56
due to the correlations volatility and come pounding. You will not experience the arithmetic
17:03
mean. So if somebody just says, oh, the stock market is average
17:07
twelve percent per year, since you know whatever whenever that is, they're often
17:11
talking about the arithmetic mean, which, interestingly enough, that may be a
17:15
fascinating data point, But if you had invested in the stock market over that
17:19
timeframe, you wouldn't have experienced that. So let that sink in everybody.
17:23
If somebody says, oh, the average of the S and P five hundred
17:26
is twelve percent per year, that's fine. That's fine, but if you
17:30
had actually put money into it, you wouldn't have experienced that. So therefore
17:34
you and your advisor must be using geometric mean return assumptions minus inflation and taxes
17:44
over long periods of time to accurately project your ability to retire. You can't
17:48
just take the average of a long dataset of the market and say that's what
17:52
I'm going to experience, because that, again, that is stripping out the
17:56
impact of compounding, positive or negative. So all too often we see people
18:02
working on their own with an uneducated advisor, you using broken tools to create
18:07
broken projections that lead to broken outcomes. I assure you that we are not
18:11
trying to scare you into believing us or working with us. I assure you,
18:15
but we have just seen too many mistakes made by novice mathematicians or advisors
18:21
when it comes to making life altering decisions like when to retire. So let
18:26
me give you a simple example of this. Because you might be going arithmetic
18:30
geometric, like, how would this actually show up? Here's here's the simple
18:33
example. The arithmetic mean, or the average return of the S and P
18:37
five hundred from nineteen twenty six to twenty twenty two, about one hundred years
18:42
when not accounting for the impact of serial correlation and compounding, is twelve percent.
18:48
I'm going to repeat that from nineteen twenty six to twenty twenty two.
18:52
The S and P five hundred average return is twelve percent. If you take
18:56
a twelve percent arithmetic mean, which is a nominal calculation minus a three percent
19:02
inflation assumption, while ignoring the impact of taxes, you end up with a
19:06
nine percent real rate of return on the S and P five hundred over that
19:08
timeframe. However, conversely, over that same timeframe, simply by changing the
19:15
calculation to a geometric mean, which does account for serial correlation on compounding,
19:21
we end up closer to ten percent, which is what an investor would actually
19:25
experience if they were invested in the S and P five hundred over one hundred
19:27
year timeframe, not the previous twelve percent. So therefore, if you take
19:33
a twelve percent geometric mean nominal calculation minus a three percent inflation assumption while ignoring
19:40
the impact of taxes, you end up with a seven percent real return or
19:44
net return of the S and P five hundred, And as you can imagine,
19:48
if we are doing projections for clients and saying and just being lazy about
19:52
the calculation, and we're using a nine percent instead of a seven percent return
19:56
assumption or over thirty forty years of retirement, well I cannot emphasize you enough
20:03
how off we would be in our calculations. And it's not even a matter
20:07
of you might go, well, you're projecting the future you'll never know.
20:11
No, I know that it's an unknown future, but we're actually using a
20:15
broken tool. The calculation that we had done in the prior one using the
20:18
twelve percent number isn't anything you could ever experience because it's ignoring compounding and serial
20:25
correlation. So here's the point, everybody, if you're going to do long
20:29
term projections of savings rates or long term projections of a retirement plan, please
20:33
please please make sure you are number one, working with an advisor who understands
20:38
nominal versus real returns and number two understands geometric versus arithmetic return calculations. It
20:47
will cause significant harm if you're running calculations without accounting for those two factors.
20:52
Really highlights the importance of working with folks that are experienced and have expertise and
20:57
understanding retirement planning when you're when you're putting this this plan together. As we
21:02
talk with CJ and Night this week, I've been talking about kind of building
21:04
that building, that nest egg, building that snowball what happens when it comes
21:08
to kind of taking that withdrawals and other things you probably heard of the term
21:12
sequence of returns and the risk secrets of sequence of returns risk. We're gonna
21:17
get the details from Nate and that in just a moment. We'll also do
21:19
the Coss Quiz question of the week. In the meantime, you haven't been
21:22
to the website Coss Financial dot com, head on over there check it out
21:25
Cossfinancial dot com. That's Coss k l a a Sfinancial dot com and they're
21:30
telephone number six oh eight four four two five six three seven. No charge
21:34
for the financial get to know your appointment tech Coss Financial. It will be
21:37
complementary to you again their number six oh eight four four two five six three
21:42
seven. More of money in Motion with Coss Financial is next right here on
21:45
thirteen ten wib A talking with our retirement planning professional CJ. Coss and Nate
21:53
Briby, of course, is his money in Motion with Coss Financial. Their
21:56
website costs Financial dot com. That's Coss k Laasfinancial dot com. Tel for
22:02
a number four four to two five six three seven. Okay, So final
22:06
thing for today is uh sequence of returns and understanding sequence of returns risk in
22:11
the early years of retirement. What do we need to know there, Nate,
22:15
Yep, everyone hang on because this is my favorite, one of my
22:18
favorite topics. So, starting with a simple definition, sequence of returns risk
22:23
is the risk that the order can negatively impact a portfolio's ability to replenish itself.
22:32
So basically, it matters if you receive positive returns first early in retirement
22:37
or negative returns. In fact, using a statistical regression analysis, retirement researcher
22:44
wigde Foul determined that fifty three percent of retirement outcomes can be explained by the
22:49
returns or retiree receives in the first five years of retirement. Okay, so
22:56
another statistical jargon. These first five years of returns have a high explanatory power
23:02
towards your retirement success. Knowing this, I'm not sure this risk gets as
23:06
much attention as it requires. So if you followed CJ's last part in geometric
23:11
returns, you understand the importance of secret risks. Since investment returns compound,
23:15
the previous year's return affects the amount of growth in dollar terms during future years.
23:21
This is much like scoring and bowling a strike followed by another strike,
23:26
or than a strike followed by hitting only five pins. And another example,
23:32
if you invest one hundred dollars and lose twenty percent, you must make twenty
23:36
five percent to get back to the one hundred dollars, not just twenty percent.
23:41
So if we look at this concept when it comes to withdrawing money from
23:42
a portfolio, imagine two retirees, both starting with a million dollars, taking
23:48
out fifty thousand dollars nominally at the beginning of each year retire one would experience,
23:57
say retire one experiences a plus fifteen percent returning year one, plus five
24:03
percent returning year two, and minus fifth. After three years, he would
24:08
have about eight hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars. Now, if you take
24:12
retire two, who experiences the same three returns, just an opposite order,
24:18
so negative fifteen first, plus five, and then plus fifteen, he would
24:22
have only eight hundred and fifty seven thousand after three years. So clearly there's
24:26
a thirty thousand dollars difference there. Now, just like the compounding of inflation,
24:32
this may seem like a small difference now, but if we continue with
24:34
this example, if both retirees aren't exactly five percent per year going forward.
24:40
Retire E two would actually run out of money four years sooner than retire e
24:44
one. So the first thing our listeners should determine is if they have high
24:49
sequence risk. To put some numbers to this, if you expect to withdraw
24:53
more than six percent of your portfolio for the first two to five years of
24:59
retirement, we would say that you have a high risk of sequence risk.
25:03
The good news is that there are ways to mitigate this risk by being strategic
25:07
with your acid allocation. Retirees could consider holding a larger portion of cash,
25:12
CDs, short term bonds, or even period certain immediate annuities. The optimal
25:18
strategy would be to spend down these buffer assets early in retirement and let your
25:23
stocks grow and recover from any volatility. Now, this may be unnecessary if
25:30
you anticipate a lower withdrawal rate throughout retirement. Another way to mitigate this risk,
25:34
although not our favorite, would be claiming social security or pension earlier than
25:40
planned to take pressure off the portfolio. Most times we have clients start by
25:45
drawing down on their and actually deferring social security to see what sequence of returns
25:51
they get. If they experience a positive sequence, we keep spending from the
25:55
portfolio. However, if negative returns are experienced, we may suggest claiming solid
26:00
security to reduce pressure on the portfolio. Fascinating stuff this week. There was
26:04
as always this show, there's a lot of information this week especially, there's
26:08
a lot to take in. I guarantee a lot of folks are going to
26:11
that I have never thought of that stuff before. A great opportunity if you've
26:15
got questions, of course, telephon number for COSS Financial six oh eight four
26:18
four two five six three seven. No charge for that initial get to know
26:22
your appointment tech Loss Financial. It will be complimentary to you again. Their
26:26
number six oh eight four four two five six three seven mentioned all the information
26:30
in this week's program. Don't forget you can always listen back to the podcast
26:33
at Cossfinancial dot com. That's Coss k l a A Sfinancial dot com.
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Cossfinancial dot com is the website. Time now for the COLS Quiz question the
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week. It works like this. In just a moment, I'll ask you
26:45
the class quiz question leak. We'll let to have thirty minutes from the today's
26:48
program to call the Class Financial office right here in Madison at six oh eight
26:52
four four two five six three seven, if you are the first quart correct
26:56
answer when this week's prize, which is a twenty five dollars gift card to
27:00
Target. This week's class quiz question of the week is this true or false?
27:04
Real returns are generally lower than nominal returns because they are reported after a
27:12
reduction of for inflation. One more time, real returns are generally lower than
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nominal returns because they are reported after a reduction for inflation. Telphone number six
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oh eight four four two five, six three seven. First Coaltcrat to answer,
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We'll win that twenty five dollars gift cards to Target. Don't forget as
27:30
well. That's Class Financials Office right here in Madison six oh eight four four
27:33
two five six three seven. C J. Nate Always great chatting with you
27:37
guys. Enjoy this great day. Thanks Sean, Thanks Sean. News comes
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your way next here on thirteen ten wib ight