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Episode 492: BOB DOLE 1995 Clintons Comeback Bosnia (Part B) The Senate Debate (1) · BOB DOLE : 1995 Clinton's Comeback

• 0:30
  SPEAKER_05: Senator No, what do you think about uh those Republicans who have criticized you for your position on Bosnia?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_07: Well, I like that.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_07: I think we don't have the best agreement in the world.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_07: Uh we had a better option as far as uh lifting the arms up arguing.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_07: If we done that a year ago, we wouldn't be talking about sending American troops at President Clinton.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_07: Rejected that.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_07: That in effect is all history.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_07: And now the troops are there.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_07: My view is we ought to do everything we can to support the American forces.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_07: I get mixed views.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_07: I think maybe some of the Democratic leaders in Congress don't the Clinton strategy to get him in is one thing, to get them out is another.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_07: And he's talking about a year.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_07: I don't see how that can happen unless the Bosnians are armed and trained, and an independent unit can take care of themselves.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_07: That's the argument made for the past two and a half years on lifting the embargo.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_07: Now, maybe there's other ways it can be done, but we need to be the guarantor.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_07: America needs to be the guarantor that it's gonna happen.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_07: Uh maybe we don't need to do it, but we need to satisfy at least members of Congress that it's going to be done and have some timetable, not just some hope that it's gonna be done.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_07: And I take him at his word, though.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_07: If he doesn't mean that he ought to go.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, okay.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_05: On the Randle Walls podcast, we're gonna be looking now at the at the debate over Bosnia.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_05: And I picked out uh some of the major senators that would be there, of course, Senator Strom Thurman.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_05: Uh Senator K.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: Bailey Hutchinson, who introduces the bill that would have uh not funded Trinks going to uh uh to Bosnia.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_05: Senator Phil Graham, who was uh Bob Dill's coming opponent, uh member of the Senate who was also running for president, so as an opponent in the Republican primary, Senator Ted Kennedy, uh we will hear from Bob Dole himself, and Senator John Warner, Senator Sam Nunn, Senator Carl Levin, Senator Robert Bird, who was the uh senior Democrat in the U.S.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: Senate.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_05: Uh a little bit from Tom Dash, and of course, Bob Dole's closing speech.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_05: We got a special episode that we'll have Senator Joe Biden as a separate episode of his speech because he speaks for about a half hour, and of course, he bears the distinction of being the only other president, a future president at this point, that was involved intimately in the decision uh concerning sending troops to Bosnia.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_05: So uh here's a chance to sit on the Senate floor and hear this major debate from the 1990s.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: The Senate will come to order, the chaplain will now deliver the ordinary prayer.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: Knowledge we do not ask.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Knowledge thou hast lent.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: But Lord, the will.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: There lies our bitterest need.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Give us to build beyond the deepest intent.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: The D, Lord.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: The D.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: Dear God, help us to put into action what we believe.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: You have made faith and works inseparable.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Application of our convictions is our real challenge.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Help us to apply the absolutes of our faith.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: We believe in you as sovereign of this nation.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: Strengthen our wills to seek and do your will.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: Our motto is, in God we trust.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: Help us really to trust you in the specific decisions that we make today.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: Particularly, we ask you for your guidance and direction in our decisions about our involvement in Bosnia.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Lord, we believe that you've called us here to serve.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: Help us to be servant leaders, distinguished for diligence.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: We affirm your presence.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: We accept your love.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: We rejoice in your goodness.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: We receive your guidance.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: And now we praise your holy name.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Have a nice day.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: President.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Under the previous order, the leadership time is reserved.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Under the previous order, H.R.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: 2606 will now be laid aside, and the Senate from Texas, Ms.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Hudson, will be recognized to offer a Senate concurrent resolution.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Mr.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: President.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I send a resolution to the desk and ask for its immediate consideration.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_06: Clecker report.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_06: Senate concurrent resolution 35 expressing the opposition of the Congress to President Clinton's planned deployment of United States ground forces to Bosnia.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: President.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_06: The Senator from Texas.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: President, this is a very simple resolution.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's the Hutchison and Hoff resolution that says very simply, we oppose President Clinton's decision to deploy American troops into Bosnia.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: The second part is also very simple.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: It says we support the troops of our country 100%.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: President, Congress must exercise its responsibility under the Constitution.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: We must say no when there is a bad decision that will cost American lives.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: President, Congress has not been consulted.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Congress has not authorized this deployment.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is not an emergency.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: The President is talking about a year.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is the NATO agreement.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: If any member of the United States Senate can tell me that this agreement takes care of our responsibility to send troops into a civil war in a country that is not a NATO country, I invite them to come to the floor and do that.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: President, it is not there.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: The NATO treaty is a mutual defense pact among nations that were trying to make sure that we would have the ability to repel a large and onerous foreign invader.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: There is no such potential foreign invader for our NATO countries.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, rather than run around the world and react to crisis upon crisis, where there is not a United States security threat, it is time for us to look at NATO and our agreement and make it strong by planning ahead, by having a strategic vision about what is needed now to make Europe stable.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: America wants to be part of making Europe stable.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: But, Mr.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: President, going into a civil war in Bosnia is not the way to make Europe stable.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: The way to make Europe stable is to help the people of Bosnia by making sure there is parity, by making sure that the people are able to repair themselves, but not to put United States troops on the ground.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: President, I'm just going to end this morning by quoting from a letter that I got from one of my constituents, and I think it really sums it up.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I remain to be convinced that we have a greater moral obligation to the Bosnians than we do to our own soldiers and their families.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: President, this is a bad decision.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a it is the responsibility of Congress to fulfill our constitutional duty to say, no, Mr.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: President, come to us.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's discuss when you want to deploy American troops.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sending them to Haiti without our authorization, expanding the mission in Somalia without our authorization has not worked.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And sending our troops to Bosnia without our authorization will not work.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Mr.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: President, and I yield the floor.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: President.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Senator President.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: President, I rise in support of the concurrent resolution offered by the distinguished son from Texas, Senator Hudson, myself, and others.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: President, for the past couple of months, I have made statements on the floor and in hearings conducted by the Senate Armed Services Committee expressing my grave concerns over the commitment that President Clinton made to the presidents of Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia to deploy U.S.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: military ground forces to implement and enforce a peace agreement to end the fighting in Bosnia.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: I continue to have those concerns.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: To date, the Senate Arms Services Committee has conducted eight hearings on the situation in Bosnia and the use of U.S.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: military forces to enforce the Bosnia peace agreement.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: In testimony before the committee, administration of witnesses and experts in the area of national security, foreign policy, and intelligence have stated that it is a vital national interest, in the vital national interest of the United States, to deploy ground forces in Bosnia to avoid a wide-scale war in Europe to save NATO and maintain United States leadership in NATO and to preserve the good word of the United States.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: President, as I have stated before, as a superpower, I believe it is important for the United States to show leadership in matters of national security and foreign policy.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: I also support NATO and do not want to endanger NATO as a security organization, which was largely successful in bringing the Cold War to an end.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I also believe that it is important to follow through with commitments.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: However, I will not rubber stamp a decision by the president just because he has a constitutional authority to deploy military forces.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: The administration has testified that the president would proceed with the deployment of U.S.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: forces to Bosnia regardless of the concerns expressed by Congress.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Despite this testimony, I believe Congress has a constitutional responsibility to review decisions of this magnitude.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: In the conduct of that review, I have yet to be convinced by the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Secretary of State that there are vital national security interests that warrant the deployment of U.S.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: military forces in Bosnia, or that our national security is threatened.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: President, I am not convinced that the mission is clear, that the objectives of the mission are achievable, or that there is a clear exit strategy.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have great confidence in NATO's ability under the operational and tactical control of the U.S.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: military to manage the operation.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: More confidence than I ever had in the United Nations.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: However, there will be a number of non-NATO nations participating in the implementation force, a great number of them deployed in the United States sector.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: While they will be under the operational control of the United States military commanders, I have concerns about their perception or interpretation of actions by the people for whom they are supposed to be securing peace and the paramilitary forces in the area who may not support the peace effort.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: President, this operation is supposed to be a peacekeeping action.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, a peace enforcement action as necessary.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: I am concerned that there is great potential for disaster despite robust rules of engagement, if there is not a clear understanding among all the parties in the sector as to interpretation of military action and what constitutes the use of force.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: President Fuller, I am convinced that U.S.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: military forces participating in the Bosnia Peace implementation force will not get bogged down with non-military activities, such as providing assistance to international organizations.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: From reading the I4 mission statement, it is quite clear to me that the mission statement is ambiguous and unclear.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Specifically, it states that IFO will not conduct election security, provide humanitarian assistance, or conduct mine or obstacle-clearing activities.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: At the same time, though it says that members of IFO will assist international organizations in these activities if requested.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: President, I supported lifting the arms embargo so that the Bosnian Muslims could protect themselves and so the United States could avoid sending U.S.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: troops to Bosnia.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: The president and the international community repeatedly rejected the bipartisan effort to lift this embargo.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: I still support the idea that a stable military balance is necessary to enable Bosnia to defend itself.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: However, now that U.S.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: troops will be deployed in Bosnia, I have concerns for their safety if the United States becomes directly involved in providing equipment, arms, training, and the logistics to the Bosnian Muslims.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: President, regardless of the outcome of this debate, I want to strongly emphasize my support for the U.S.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: military forces who have already been deployed to Bosnia and Croatia and who may surely be deployed to Bosnia to participate in the implementation force.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: I will be monitoring very closely the situation in Bosnia so that we can ensure that our military forces can return to their families as soon as possible.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: President, I urge my colleagues to support the concurrent resolution offered by Senator Hutchison, myself, and others.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: President, I yield the floor.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Senator from Texas.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_04: Mr.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: President, I rise to oppose sending American troops to Bosnia.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: We are being asked in the Dole resolution to basically agree to and support and expand the mission that the President has subscribed to in Bosnia, and I intend to oppose that resolution because I think that the mission is deeply flawed.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think we are making a mistake, and I intend to make it very clear that I oppose the policy we have undertaken in Bosnia.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: What we are proposing is to send American troops into the line of fire as a buffer force between two warring factions that have broken every ceasefire and violated every treaty for over 500 years.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: Historically, in our country, we have set high standards in sending Americans into harm's way.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_04: Each of us have set standards a little differently, but in general, we have all tried to ask ourselves: do we have a vital national security interest?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: Our president has for three years tried to make the case that we have a vital national security interest in Bosnia.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: I submit the president has failed, not because he is not a great salesman.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: The president is a great salesman.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_04: He has failed because I believe he has no product to sell.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: What is happening in Bosnia is terrible.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: Most members of the Senate have been to Bosnia.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: Every American has seen on television what is happening there.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: We are all outraged about it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: But when you get down to the bottom line as to whether we have a vital national security interest in Bosnia, the clear answer is no.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: It seems to me the second question we have to ask ourselves is: will our intervention be decisive in promoting the objectives we seek?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's one thing to have good intentions.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_04: It's one thing to have pure motives.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: It is another thing to have a plan that would allow you to put those good intentions into force.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_04: I see no evidence whatsoever to substantiate any claim that our intervention as a buffer force between warring factions in Bosnia is going to be decisive in promoting the objective we seek.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: And the test has come about in my own mind because I represent a large state, 18 million people.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: We have a lot of people in uniform.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: Many people born in other parts of the country come and are stationed in Texas and for a myriad of reasons become citizens of my state.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so when Americans died in the Persian Gulf, when Americans died in Somalia, Texans died.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I was called upon to try to console parents and spouses of Texans who had made the supreme sacrifice for our country.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: And in that experience, I have concluded that there's one additional test that I need to ask myself before committing Americans to combat and to before putting Americans in harm's way.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_04: And that test goes beyond do we have a vital national interest?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: It goes beyond will our intervention be decisive in promoting that interest?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_04: And that test is I have two college-age sons.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_04: Am I so convinced that we have a vital national security interest in Bosnia?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: Do I have strong enough belief that our intervention will be decisive in promoting those interests that I would be willing to send one of my own sons?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: I submit that unless I can answer that question very decisively, yes, that I can't feel comfortable in sending someone else's son and someone else's daughter.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: We are told by the president that if we don't send troops to Bosnia, that we are going to undermine NATO.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: I submit, Mr.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_04: President, that that is an absurd notion.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: NATO is a defensive alliance.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: NATO was established as a defensive alliance in Western Europe aimed at keeping Ivan back from the gate, aimed at keeping the Soviet Empire out of Western Europe.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_04: It is one of the most successful alliances in history, but never ever when NATO was established, and never to this point in its functioning, have we ever viewed NATO as having the role of intervening in a civil war within Western Europe.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_04: I submit that this is a change in the mission of NATO, and that to argue that a security alliance, which is defensive in nature, will be undercut if the United States of America does not intervene in a civil war in Bosnia simply is an argument that has no merit and no justification.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: I am also very concerned about the Dole resolution.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm concerned about the fact that in the initial presentation, the president has argued that we would be part of a NATO force that on a neutral basis would be a buffer between warring factions.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_04: The concern under those circumstances would be that the ceasefire would not hold.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_04: Or that the peace agreement would be broken, something that has happened for over 500 years.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_04: But now we are injecting a new element into the mix.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_04: And that new element is that since the president has no exit strategy, since the president's plan is very specific as to how we get into Bosnia and not very specific as to how we get out, now we are having through the Dole resolution an exit strategy that is imposed by having the United States of America take sides in this conflict.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_04: Having the United States of America arm one of the warring factions, train one of the warring factions, and I submit, Mr.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: President, that in taking sides in the conflict, if we ever had any protection in neutrality, if our position as a buffer force in the line of fire between warring factions that have broken every agreement for over 500 years, if there ever was any security in that agreement, agreeing to take sides in the conflict and to arm one side and to train one side greatly undercuts our ability to serve as a buffer force.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: Now, paradoxically, if we were debating not to intervene in Bosnia in a peacekeeping role, but to be part of an effort to try to bring a balance of military power by lifting the arms embargo and by bringing the leadership of the Bosnian army to Germany to be trained by Americans and to have an international effort that we would participate in to supply arms, in all probability, depending on how it was structured, I would be supportive of that activity.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: But when we take on the role of a neutral peacekeeper, by the very nature of that role, we eliminate our capacity, it seems to me, to take sides in the conflict and to be a source of weapons and to be a source of training.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: I understand the desire to get an exit strategy, but quite frankly, I believe that the Dole Resolution takes a flawed policy and goes one step further in making that policy more flawed.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I intend to vote against the Dole Resolution.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: Let me raise a concern that I have thought about now since Somalia.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I raise it because by going back to Somalia, uh I can divorce partisanship from this because President Bush sent troops to Bosnia.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: I mean to Somalia.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_04: Now, we could get into an argument about how he sent them there in one role, President Clinton used them in another role, but that's a subtle argument that I'm not interested in.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: I am very concerned about the fact that we're setting American foreign policy by channel surfing.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: I am very concerned about the fact that we went to Somalia for one and only one reason, and that is the suffering and misery in Somalia were on television.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: Similar pictures could have been shown from a dozen other spots on the planet, but when one network decided to highlight Somalia, when the public saw these pictures, politicians in Washington responded to the pictures and we established a policy to intervene.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_04: I submit that you can't run foreign policy like social work.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: You can't look for some good to do around the world.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: We, as powerful as we are, as the greatest and most powerful nation in the history of the world, we can't fix everything that's broken.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: We can't right every wrong.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_04: We can't take under ourselves the mission of seeking out some human suffering or some injustice anywhere on the planet with the goal that we, through our power, can solve their problem.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: Quite frankly, we have a lot of problems of our own.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: We have a lot of human suffering in our own country.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: But I believe that we made a mistake in Somalia, and I believe that we're making a mistake in Bosnia.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: I think in foreign policy you have to define your vital national security interests first.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: And then when something in the world threatens those national security interests, at that point you make a second determination, and that is whether or not, given your capacity to use your power, you can be decisive in promoting those interests.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_04: I think in the Persian Gulf the answer was yes.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_04: Our vital national interests were threatened.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_04: We had a military dictator who was developing, as we now know and have convincing evidence of, both chemical and nuclear weapons.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: His invasion of a neighboring country threatened the whole Middle East, threatened Saudi Arabia, threatened our ally Israel.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_04: We had a vital national security interest in the Persian Gulf, and we had the capacity through our intervention to be decisive in promoting that interest.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: That is not the case with Bosnia.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I am very alarmed about this new approach, which is the foundation of foreign policy in the Clinton administration, of viewing foreign policy as simply an extension of social work.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: A final point on this subject.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_04: The Cold War is over.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: We, in debating the powers of the president to use American military power around the world, uh virtually everyone in this body has served in a period where we were in a death struggle conflict.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_04: Some of our members served not here, but in the service of the country when that enemy was fascism.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_04: Every member except the newest members here have served when we were in a life and death twilight struggle with world communism.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_04: When that struggle was underway, either against fascism or communism, American intervention around the world as a way of promoting our interest, as a policy of containment, the most successful policy of this century, because it did win the Cold War.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: Under those circumstances, when Ivan was at the gate, it made sense to give the president the benefit of the doubt.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: And we have all conditioned our thinking in foreign policy with terms like partisanship ends at the water's edge.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_04: The president always deserves the benefit of the doubt in foreign policy.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: But I submit that that conditioning of our thoughts was from another era.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_04: It was from an era where there was a worldwide struggle underway.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: I submit that that logic does not apply in this case.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: Why should the president have a greater benefit of doubt in engaging in police activity in Bosnia than he has in engaging in police activity in Cleveland, Ohio?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_04: I submit that there is no reason to give the president that benefit of the doubt, but even if one did, I submit that there is no evidence to substantiate the belief that we have a vital national interest at stake, that our intervention can be decisive in promoting that interest, and I am very concerned that unless we are very fortunate indeed, that the outcome of this intervention might simply be to add American names to the casualty list, but not to end the tragedy that we all want to see ended.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_04: I am going to vote against the Dole resolution.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: I am going to vote for the Hutcheson resolution.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_04: I am going to vote for the resolution denying funds.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: I believe that we have to take the strongest stand possible.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: I believe that this is a mistake.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_04: I believe the policy is not a logical policy to promote American interest.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to send troops to Bosnia.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_04: I know they're going.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_04: I understand that the votes are here to assure that the president is going to not only be able to send troops to Bosnia, but is going to be able to cloak himself in congressional support.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_04: But I want to make it very clear I do not support this policy.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_04: If by stopping funding for it I could prevent the troops from being sent, I would vote to stop them from being sent.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_04: There are those who will say, well, then are you not supporting the troops?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not concerned about the troops doing their job.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_04: I know they're going to do their job.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: I am concerned about the United States Congress doing its job.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_04: I know that our warriors will do their duty.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_04: I know that they will serve proudly.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_04: I know if this mission can be made to work, that they will make it work.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that every member of the Senate and every member of the House will be supportive of our troops and will give them the supplies and the weapons and the support they need.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_04: But this is a bad decision that should not be undertaken.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_04: I oppose it and I intend to vote against it, and I yield the floor.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_04: Senator from Massachusetts.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_08: President Clinton has demonstrated oppressive leadership in achieving the Bosnian peace agreement to be signed tomorrow in Paris.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_08: The U.S.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_08: troops being sent to Bosnia are going there to help implement that peace plan.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_08: Because of U.S.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_08: leadership so far, they are not going there to fight a war.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_08: There is no longer a war to fight.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_08: And with U.S.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_08: leadership in the year ahead, there's a good chance the war will never resume.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_08: Everything depends on the party's own commitment to peace.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_08: We have given that question very careful consideration in our Armed Services Committee hearings in recent weeks, as well as in consultations with the Secretaries of Defense, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Shalakashvili, and Assistant Secretary of State Holbrook.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_08: Secretary Perry and Ambassador Holbrook made very clear that the parties initiated the Dayton Peace Agreement and will sign the Paris Peace Agreement because they are tired of war, not because the United States or anyone else imposed it upon them.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_08: The parties met painstakingly for 21 days and nights in Dayton and reached a landmark accord to end the future year, the four-year-long war that has plagued all of Bosnia and destroyed much of the country.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_08: President Clinton is now sending U.S.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_08: troops to Bosnia to help all sides implement the peace agreement.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_08: Without American leadership, there would have been no agreement.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_08: And without American troops to implement the agreement, there will be no peace.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_08: The role of U.S.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_08: forces in Bosnia serves American interests in several ways.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_08: Most important, this mission is the only chance to achieve peace in Bosnia.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_08: That peace is essential to prevent a wider war in Europe.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_08: A wider war would inevitably involve the United States with vastly greater risk of casualties.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_08: Twice in this century, tens of thousands of Americans have lost their lives in world wars that destroyed much of Europe.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_08: Containing such wars before they spiral out of control will save future American lives.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_08: Sending U.S.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_08: troops to Bosnia will also serve the American goal of ending the massacres, ending the ethnic cleansing, ending all the other atrocities that have claimed a quarter of a million lives in this war and driven two million more people from their homes.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_08: The United States cannot be the world's policeman, and this deployment does not make us one.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_08: But our country was founded on respect for human rights, on a responsibility to help those in need where we can.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_08: And in this case, we can stand for those principles by entering a war and helping a war-ravaged nation heal itself.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_08: It is also in the U.S.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_08: national interest for NATO to succeed in this mission.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_08: This is a clear test case for NATO.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_08: This alliance, created during the Cold War to meet Cold War threats, faces the massive challenges of reshaping itself to deal with security threats in the post-Cold War era.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_08: Meeting the challenge of Bosnia using military forces to enforce a peace in a local conflict that threatens to escalate into a wider war is the type of threat that NATO must be able to meet.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_08: If the Alliance fails the test, it may well not survive.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_08: Surely no one can deny that the vitality of NATO is in America's national interest.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_08: Many of us had hoped that the United Nations peacekeeping force could have dealt with this conflict and produced a lasting peace, but that was not possible.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_08: Ceasefires came and went, but the only certainty was that war always resumed.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_08: Now the U.S.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_08: and NATO force face this challenge.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_08: NATO airstrikes led by the United States were the key factor in producing the most recent ceasefire, and NATO forces led by the United States will be the key factor in keeping that peace and giving it the chance it needs to take root in the hard, bitter, blood-stained fields of Bosnia.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_08: This is no Gulf of Tonkin resolution.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_08: The military mission is limited and achievable.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_08: The United States and NATO are not assuming open-ended responsibility for peace in Bosnia.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_08: That's very important.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_08: The mission of the U.S.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_08: and NATO forces is to give the people of that divided nation a new breathing room, not more breathing room to implement a specific peace plan.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_08: There is no commitment by the United States or NATO to nation building or to provide long-run guarantee of peace.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_08: President Clinton has made it clear that if the war resumes, we will withdraw our forces.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_08: He has also placed an approximate 12-month deadline on our troop stay in Bosnia.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_08: The war in Bosnia went on too long.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_08: The United Nation and U.S.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_08: and our allies in Europe made many mistakes along the way.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_08: The war claimed too many lives.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_08: It has often threatened to spread to other nations.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_08: But now that all sides in Bosnia have chosen peace themselves, the United States is in a position to lead NATO in over 25 nations around the globe, including Russia, in an unprecedented effort that is also a limited but clearly needed effort to continue the peace and give it time to stick.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_08: We all recognize that the mission may fail, but the real failure would be not to try.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_08: I commend the President Clinton for his leadership.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_08: I commend our brave men and women going to Bosnia to serve American interests and American ideals.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_08: We stand behind them and we wish them a safe and successful mission.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_08: Mr.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_07: President, just very briefly on another matter as consent that Senator Warner being inserted in the Republican spot the vacancy there to follow uh Senator Carey from Nebraska.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_07: Without objection, so ordered.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_07: The majority leader.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_07: Be happy to Senator from New York.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_07: Happy to Senator Senate from Connecticut, Senator Nebraska.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_07: Senator from South Dakota.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_07: We accept we'll be accepting co-sponsors throughout the day, hopefully.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_07: Without objections, so ordered.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_07: If if I could just proceed for two or three minutes uh before the vote on this amendment, I'll speak later on so ordered the Hutchison amendment and uh on my own amendment.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_07: Let me speak just to the Heffley resolution because I think it's important.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_07: And just for the matter of just for record, uh I went back and had uh the Congressional Research Service check my votes and the debates I was participated in between 1969 and 73 when it came to cutting off funds in Vietnam.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_07: And we had one debate that lasted seven weeks, and I was the leader of the effort not to cut off funds because we had people like John McCain who were imprisoned, we had other young men and women who were on the ground in Vietnam, and I thought it would have been a tragedy.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_07: And we had long debates, long debates, rancorous debates, heated debates, the so-called Cooper Church amendments.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_07: Senator Cooper from Kentucky, Senator Church from Idaho.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_07: So let me say on the so-called resolution before us now, and having a lot of experience and efforts to try to avoid cutting off funds once we have our young men committed somewhere around the world, that we have a couple of choices.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_07: We can cut off funds for this operation, and our forces who are already underway, or two, we can loudly protest the president's decision to express our opposition, or three, we can require the president to take measures that will enhance the safety of our troops and ensure that they will return quickly without their withdrawal, leading to resumption of hostilities.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_07: And I've given this matter a lot of thought, and I've been engaged in a lot of these debates on the Senate floor, and I've thought about my own personal experience during World War II and deliberations I've said since that time.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_07: And I've thought about the American troops spending a Christmas overseas in the mountains of Europe.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_07: I've also thought about the experience of our brave war heroes like Senator John McCain, Senator Bob Carey, Senator John McCain, who was in the Vietnamese prison while tens of thousands of Americans were marching to protest the war, and Congress regularly debated cutting off funds for U.S.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_07: military operations in Southeast Asia.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_07: As some may remember, the Congress spent weeks, even months, on debating Cooper Church.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_07: Government Hatfield and other measures to cut funding for war, for the war in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_07: I recall, as I said earlier, that in the spring of 1970, I led a filibuster against the Cooper Church amendment cutting off funds for military operations in Cambodian Laos.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_07: In that debate, I offered an amendment that would have allowed the president to waive the funding restrictions if he determined U.S.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_07: citizens were being held as prisoners of war in Cambodia by North Vietnam or the Viet Cong.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_07: This amendment failed.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_07: Believe it or not, the amendment failed by a vote of 36 to 54, and Cooper Church passed, but only after troop withdrawal had begun.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_07: And while I understand opposition and disagreement with the president's decision to send American ground forces to Bosnia, I believe that action to cut off funds for this deployment is wrong.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_07: It is wrong because it makes our brave young men and women bear the brunt of a decision made not by them but by the commander-in-chief.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_07: I will vote against HR-2606, sponsored by Representative Hefley, which was passed by the House last month.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_07: HR-2606 prohibits any use of Department of Defense funds for the deployment of U.S.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_07: Armed Forces on the ground in Bosnia participating in the NATO implementation force unless such funds have been specifically appropriated by subsequent law.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_07: Now there's been no appropriations for this operation.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_07: So the effect would be to cut off funds to our troops who are on the way or already on the ground in Bosnia.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_07: I do not believe we should limit the funds for food, supplies, and ammunition for our troops.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_07: It was wrong during Vietnam, and it's wrong now.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_07: I believe that passing the Hafley resolution would undermine our troops as well as our credibility.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_07: I believe that even at this late date, the Congress can play a constructive role, supporting the troops by enhancing their prospects for a timely and safe withdrawal, and ensuring that there is a military balance upon the departure of our forces.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_07: President Clinton does not have an exit strategy for our troops.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_07: Let's be clear a date is not an exit strategy.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_07: In my view, it'd be irresponsible to send thousand American forces in without a concrete plan to bring them out.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_07: And we'll be debating that at a later time.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_07: But I would just say, and on asking my entire statement of part of the record, that this is not the way to go.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_07: Cutting off funds, as I've said in all the debates I've engaged in, these are only the records of my votes between 1969 and 1973.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_07: It never seemed appropriate for me.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_07: When you had young men like John McCain, a prisoner of war, that we would cut off funds in the United States Congress.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_07: And I still have that same attitude today.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_07: Mr.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_07: President?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_07: Senator from Auto.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: I asked unanimous consent that uh on roll call number 598, I voted yay.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was my intention to vote nay.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: I add that I would ask unanimous consent that I be prepared to change my vote.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: This will in no way change the vote.