Latest / Bring The Thunder Podcast / SHai vs RUSS. WIGGINS vs McCAIN. Are We the VILLAINS Now? | EP. 40

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SHai vs RUSS. WIGGINS vs McCAIN. Are We the VILLAINS Now? | EP. 40 · Bring The Thunder Podcast

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You're listening to the Bring the Thunder.
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Podcast A podcast by fans. For.
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Fans. Yes, you are indeed, ladies and
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gentlemen, and welcome to episode 40 of the Bring the
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Thunder podcast. Before we start today's episode,
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I want to thank everyone who's been tuning in for what the last
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year and a half about our premium subscribers.
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You guys are the best members only content coming out for you
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So go check that out gentlemen. We're going to run it back.
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I really liked last week's episode Satvier hosted.
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It was kind of the debate. Now we got Jack for Satvier here
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today and we got 5 topics. All right, each of you is going
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to take a turn of going first. I do apologize in advance if you
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do go second in the topic debate, you have to go against
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whatever the first person answer is.
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So even if you may agree with him, you have to make the case
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for the opposite position or take, I should say.
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So as we get started here, we are going to start off with our
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first topic. We're going to make, we're going
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to do. There's been a lot of noise
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about OKC being the new villains of the NBA.
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I'm not going to touch on this. I would like to, but I'm going
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to start with Savir here. Savir, are we becoming the
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villains of the NBA? Yeah, I mean, we're certainly
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not the good guys of the NBA, regardless of what maybe Thunder
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fans or Jack may feel once the topic arises.
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We're certainly the villains. It's getting further towards
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villain hood with Lou Dort kind of fully taking on, you know,
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that role with Batman pretty much versus Joker there in that
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Nuggets game. With the trip, I felt like the
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trip was a little bit, you know, past what Dora is normally used
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to. We've seen Kenridge get in the
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face of guys, Jay Wilk get in the face of guys.
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We're starting to establish ourselves similar to what the
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Pistons are doing that, yeah, we want to play really aggressive
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defense, but on top of that, we're just going to play
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aggressive with you throughout the whole series of a game,
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whether it's Wimbunyama, Jokic, Anthony Edwards.
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These guys pretty much end up leaving the games, you know,
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with high blood pressure pissed off and I love that.
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We're fully embracing that. We do have some nice guys on the
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team, but when it comes to on the court, within the floor of
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the game, I would say we're right up there with the Pistons
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in terms of being villains. Yeah, I'm going to take the
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other stance, obviously, but I think being a villain means
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you're doing it intentionally. And I think no champion has ever
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gone into the next season and not had a target on their back.
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So I think every, like every team is looking at us in that
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kind of way. And we play physical defense.
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But it's I think it's different to the Pistons where they're
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really out to to get an elbow in you.
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But that's just our identity. And I think it's different to to
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intention. I think the Pistons
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intentionally try and make the game more physical because they
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know they can have the edge. So that makes them more
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villainous. But OK, see, just play that way.
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And none of it's with bad intent.
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And if it is, then it's probably not the best thing.
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But I think we have way to like you see these guys off the
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court, they're not really villains.
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They're not trying to be villains.
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They're like Dylan Brooks who are talking all the shit off the
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court. All our guys are pretty humble
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and just team first kind of mentality.
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And that he only care about OKC, they don't care about the other
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teams. So I don't really think we're
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villains and the any kind of chances we've had to be villains
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would be against like the Spurs. And they've had our number
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pretty much the whole season. Nuggets too.
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But I think we're we'll look down upon in the NBA world
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because of media and all the claims about Shay free throw
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merch and us being dirty. But I don't think that makes us
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a villain. I think that's just the hate you
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get when you win a championship. Yeah.
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I mean, before you go, Joe Jack, I think you're kind of proving
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my point here. When you're the hunter, you're
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not, you know, in a villainous role.
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You're kind of just playing within your identity.
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Once you start becoming haunted, you have to form, you know, kind
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of a hard shell. And we're starting to see guys
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get into SGA, you know, intentionally foul him, do
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things. You know, as you're mentioning
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the media, the media has turned even further against us to where
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at some point I feel like we've seen Mark, SGA, J Dub, all these
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guys get pushed past the edge of yeah, we're not doing things
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intentionally, but since you guys want us to so badly, we
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might as well start doing so. And that's where we're seeing
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most of these guys kind of tip off the edge that we didn't see
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the previous season or even in the past really.
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We've seen this with our previous dynasty where, you
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know, those young guys came in, kind of rocked the NBA and then
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team started, you know, pushing them towards the edge.
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And we'd see Serge Ibaka, KD, Russell Westbrook kind of have
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that edge as their career moved forward.
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And that's what we're seeing with SGH at J Dub where they're
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like, we're way too talented for you guys to try to push us
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around. And that's pretty much where
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we're at. We are the villains.
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I think we're embracing it. We've seen SGH be the most
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vocal, Mark be the most vocal this year.
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I just fully agree with this. Yeah.
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Just. One last thing, I think the
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external factors try to paint us as a villain, but just because
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you're being painted as one doesn't make you 1.
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And I think from everyone inside of OKC just focus on themselves.
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And yeah, I think the media and all the external factors are
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trying to make us the villains and they try to lie to you about
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the the narratives and all of that.
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And that if they were true, then I agree we would be pretty
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villainous if the NBA was rigging games in our favor for
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cools and everything and whatnot.
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But I don't think we are. And yeah, I think if like Mark
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Shay, they've been vocal this year, but they'd be the biggest
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thing they've been saying is how they're mainly focused on
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themselves getting better every game and only getting the win.
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They don't get who they're playing or what the stacks are.
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They just want to get the win. And be a team.
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So yeah. All right, I have my choice here
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and obviously it's opinion based, so you guys can make your
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choice at home in the comments as well.
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Make sure you know if you want drop a comment, say who won this
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round. For me, I am going with Jack
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winning this round. This after I actually think you
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made a really good job, like you almost convinced me that we are
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the villains. But in my head and and what Jack
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was saying I agree with is you could paint a villain.
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The media could try to make a villain, But if every stat is
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kind of against it and every, you know, type of personal
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quality is against it as well on the Oklahoma City Thunder team,
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I don't think you're the villains.
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I think people are just very jealous of the Oklahoma City
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Thunder. I don't think they purposely do
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anything wrong or they're not very cocky or anything.
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They kind of just, you know, every day it's get better, get
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better and win games. And I, I think, I think there's
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going to be other teams that kind of pull into gear of the
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villain role. And I, I just don't see OK C
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ever becoming a villain like unless you somebody turned into
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KD. But that's, that's my opinion.
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I actually believed everything I was saying, like that Bill Bill
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Simmons report of us being the villains.
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I don't think that's just more media portrayal.
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I think that's just where where we're heading.
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When I said Jack was proving my point, I actually was, you know,
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being really truthful around the topic.
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Like I actually do think we've started embracing it rather than
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before. I was like, oh, we're not doing
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it on purpose. We're the nice guys.
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Whatever I feel like now we're like, OK, you want to push us to
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the edge? All the guys that I mentioned
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that are getting pushed to the edge, they're starting to have
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an edge about them. And those are nice guys, you
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know, off the court, but everything they're doing on the
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court can be considered or deemed villainous because SGA,
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you know, shooting down hammers against other players, mocking
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them, that's new. Mark getting in the face of
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referees, that's new. J Dub has had always an edge
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about him, but I feel like the rest of the team wants SG as
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develop, developing that edge. We see that with the rest of the
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guys and we don't let teams push us around, whether it's J Dub
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Dort, Kenrich, whoever it may be, we have a bunch of
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enforcers. So yeah, I didn't convince you,
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but I I wasn't really trying to convince you because I actually
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believed the point. So.
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Yeah, hell yeah, I think. Randolph, Yeah.
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Go ahead, Jack, Finish it up. All right, just just also
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reinforce my point. I think if you're like villains
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are normally the ones provoking and us standing our ground and
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fighting back just is just standing aground and you know,
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we're the Champs now, so we're not going to take any shit.
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But I don't think that makes us the villains.
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I think the people trying to provoke us all the villains like
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Jokic would be the villain in like as he's trying to dethrone
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us kind of thing, trying to get under our skin.
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So I I think we're we're kind of the the good guys because we've
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won. Everyone's hating us because
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we've won. Yeah, well that different views,
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but. I think, I think you both made
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really good points, but the point is going to Jack just
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because I think maybe savvy, I think maybe we get to that point
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at some point if OKC gets pushed to the edge completely and
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something comes out. But as of right now, I don't see
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it. And Bill Simmons is a OKC hater
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anyway. So round one goes to Jack.
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Jack, you get to start Round 2 here.
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Round two, first round, ideal playoff matchup.
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I'm going to give you 2 teams here first round, Portland Trail
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Blazers or Golden State Warriors.
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Yeah, easily. It's gone State Warriors, just
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their health has been pretty bad.
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Jimmy Butler with the torn ACR, Chris stops probably won't be
10:43
around for playoffs. I mean he's being in and out the
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whole season and then the depth is pretty shocking.
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Outside of that, they just don't have the match ups for Hansen
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and whatever you call it, Chet Holmgren.
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Yeah, the Draymond Green and Al Horford aren't matching that.
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And then they like Steph Curry's offense does not outweigh the
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negative defence. They have to try and counter
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Shay. They they got nothing for Shay.
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They just they don't really have the the defenders.
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It's a pretty weak team to be honest.
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I mean, the starting lineup right now is Brandon Pazemsky, D
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Anthony Melton, Moses Moody, Guy Santos to Draymond Green.
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Like, I'm not moved by that at all.
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The Trail Blazers have beat us this season.
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When they're on one, they're really on one.
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They have locked down defenders. They can make wide open threes.
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They're kind of like everything when a game goes bad for us
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because obviously when everything goes our way, we're
11:47
never losing a game. But when it doesn't go our way,
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the Trail Blazers are experts in all those situations like
11:53
forcing us into turnovers, interior size defense like
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Donovan Clingham, Yang Hansen, big man Robert Williams, all
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these defensive bigs. So they got they can re out
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rebound us on a bad night. They could well probably on a
12:08
good night as well because we can't rebound, but they can turn
12:11
us over. They can make that make the wide
12:13
open threes. They can get downhill all of our
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Achilles heels when it's going wrong.
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They can definitely capitalize on especially getting us into
12:21
foul trouble like we saw with Danny RV some pretty.
12:25
That's the only unsettling first round match up for me.
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And like I said, the worries just aren't good enough to
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compete with us so. Wow, I'm actually shocked that
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you had the first choice and you went with the team with a Hall
12:42
of Famer and Draymond Green. You know, I would feel pretty
12:47
scared to face a Steph Curry. We've seen what he's done
12:50
against the Thunder in the past. And then on top of it, they have
12:52
2 championship level players and Kristaps Rosingis, Al Horford, I
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believe in championship DNAI just don't think if I'm looking
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at the first round, I don't think we could 4 O a Golden
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State Warriors team the way we can a Portland Trail Blazers
13:08
team. Especially with the, you know,
13:10
amount of time we've seen the Golden State Warriors without
13:12
Steph Curry, the amount of shooting that they have from a
13:15
bench unit perspective, their shooters all around the floor
13:19
with Santos, Quinton Post, Moses Moody, the Anthony Melton,
13:25
Brandon Prodzminski, Pat Spencer, they're all able to,
13:29
you know, shoot it at a pretty high clip.
13:31
They also have solid defenders with Gary Payton being out there
13:35
and then, you know, having Al Horford, Kristaps on the
13:38
defensive end and on the three-point line versus a Trail
13:41
Blazers team who I'd think we'd easily 4 O.
13:44
The only guy that they have with championship DNA is a Giroux
13:48
holiday. Everyone else is pretty much
13:50
basically rookies. And then you have Deni Abdia,
13:53
who, you know, outside of the free throws, he's I think an All
13:57
Star with 25 points per game. But you know, ten of those come
14:02
from the free throw line. So I think we could easily limit
14:04
him to like 17 points per game or something like that on the
14:08
horrible shooting for the most part.
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And that's their best players, right?
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And then Jeremy Grant has been a shell of himself for the most
14:14
part. Even looking at their death,
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they don't really have anyone worth naming outside of maybe
14:21
Scoot Henderson. I mean we're not scared of bitch
14:23
Kreji who's averaging like 9 points.
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Matisse Stibles and that negative from all over the floor
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on the offensive end. CD Sissoko I like, but I mean
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he's not really doing much. He doesn't move me.
14:34
Robert Williams has no knees left in him.
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He's with the amount of injuries that he's had, I mean, I feel
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like this is a very easy 4 O situation.
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I respect Yang Hansen, but he's pretty much in his rookie
14:47
career. There's only two guys that I'm
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thinking of where I'm like, OK, they have some decent fight in
14:53
them where it's Drew Holiday, Scoot Henderson.
14:55
So yeah, I'd love to take on the Portland trailer Blazers, 4 of
14:58
them real quick rather than face a bunch of championship DNA guys
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and three-point specialist. We've, you know, been horrible
15:07
against the three-point line and I feel like we'd have a lot of
15:09
trouble against the Golden State Warriors.
15:12
I'll give you a two more turn. I just can't really get behind
15:16
you naming all the Trail Blazers guys, saying you're not moved
15:19
and then talking about Al Horford.
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Al Horford's washed, he's old, he can't play defence.
15:25
He can knock down and wide up for three maybe, but you can't
15:30
look at this for his team. I mean, you're talking about
15:33
what happened back in like 2016 when you talk about the like,
15:37
come on now. They're they're not the same
15:39
team as. Al Orford Al Orford in his last
15:41
10 games is averaging 10 points, 38% from the three-point line on
15:45
solid rebounding, assists and blocks.
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Like, I don't know what you're talking about, man.
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Like he's having a good career. Like is he's close to his career
15:52
numbers just a little bit notched below that.
15:56
And he may be 40 years old, but he's still a center.
15:58
And we've seen longevity in centers, so.
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I mean, that would be awesome as a fourth or fifth option, but
16:05
what these last 10 games, he's probably been the first option
16:08
with Curry out. So I don't know.
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It's it's not that impressive and they're really not that deep
16:12
at all. They can't compete with the
16:14
rebounding or the size at all. Who's guarding Shay?
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No one. Tammani Kamara is an elite level
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defender who's given Shay a bit of a bit of work before we saw
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it in our first loss of the season.
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You got to put some respect on this Trail Blazers team.
16:27
Like, they're very deep. They got some great role
16:29
players. And all of them, all of them
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step up against us, even all the way down to the two ways.
16:33
And Caleb Love had a pretty good game against US.
16:35
One point, Jeremy Grants a vet the championship DNA and Drew
16:40
Holiday. Yeah.
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But I would kind of argue I don't know how much championship
16:44
DNA is really relevant in the first round as such.
16:48
I think even young teams can still put up a fight in the
16:51
first round. And just to round off here, I
16:56
think all my points from the first, my first speech kind of
17:01
stand and size. I mean, they've already had our
17:04
number once this year. We've beat the Warriors 3 times
17:07
this year, all blowouts. They haven't really competed
17:11
this. Yeah, there's not really.
17:15
I, I would 100% think that we'd finish off the Warriors in four
17:19
or five, but I'd be a bit more nervous with the the Trail
17:22
Blazers wearing us out before the second round.
17:24
They're definitely deeper and definitely more definitely
17:28
tougher opponent than the Warriors.
17:32
I'll finish it out here. The only point that I'll concede
17:34
is they'll maybe wear us out because of the youth.
17:37
Outside of that, I don't really see any of the points for the
17:43
Blazers here. I mean, I, I already made most
17:47
of my points. The only thing I can think of is
17:49
you're mentioning like 1 defensive player that they have,
17:52
which is Thumani Kamara. Outside of that, they're really
17:54
lacking defense. The only offensive player that
17:56
they have is Deni Abdia. They do have Drew Holiday, who I
17:59
respect, but he's not the same level of guy that it used to be.
18:02
Whereas they have Gary Payton over there and then a bunch of,
18:05
you know, 3, three level scorers on the other side.
18:09
So I'm more scared of a team out shooting us on a random game
18:14
rather than out defending us. I just don't see that.
18:17
Happening did out shoot us and beat us and.
18:20
We'll end it there. We'll end it there.
18:22
This was really, really tough, like really tough to to give a
18:27
point to. Man, You both made really good
18:32
arguments, really good arguments.
18:34
I had my stance before it even started, right.
18:36
So now the fact that I'm even questioning it.
18:39
Who? Who was just that?
18:40
It's a good job from both of you guys.
18:43
For me personally, lot of good points.
18:46
The the biggest point that I will always agree with was made
18:51
by Satvier and Satvier. The point was I'd rather play a
18:55
Portland Trail Blazers team who Jack may have like more
19:00
defensive pieces than a Steph Curry and a Draymond Green in
19:04
the first round. Ideally, I mean, I, I just no
19:08
matter what, you don't want to play Steph Curry in the first
19:11
round of the NBA playoffs. It's just what it is.
19:14
And in my opinion. So we're going to give the point
19:16
to Satvier moving on. Well, Jack, you did do it.
19:20
Really. You almost you almost got me
19:21
there. I'm not going to lie.
19:22
If you're talking about first round as it stands right now, I
19:30
think these are probably the two teams that will end up being
19:33
4:00 and 5:00. We'll go on the second round
19:35
ideals. So after you get to kick this
19:38
one off here, Houston or Minnesota.
19:42
Houston or Minnesota on who? Who we'd rather play?
19:51
Let me think here. Who I'd rather play?
19:58
No. Houston or Minnesota, I'm
20:02
playing the Rockets. Sorry, I keep repeating.
20:05
I'm trying to think, but yeah, I'm going to go with the
20:08
Rockets. I'd rather play the Rockets
20:10
because one, I'm probably the biggest Kevin Durant hater
20:14
publicly. I just don't believe, you know,
20:17
he's won anything outside of the arrow with the Golden State
20:21
Warriors. Yeah, this is a Thunder podcast.
20:23
But regardless of that, that, you know, is still true.
20:26
I'm also not trying to face off against an Anthony Edwards,
20:29
who's a top five player currently.
20:31
They don't have that over on the Houston side of things.
20:34
They do have like, you know, solid progression from Jabari
20:37
Smith. They're also lacking a point
20:39
guard over there. Amin Thompson's pretty much a
20:41
net negative on the offensive end.
20:43
He's pretty much played like a Draymond Green.
20:45
You can pretty much play off of him.
20:46
He's just sitting in the quarter corner breaking threes.
20:49
They do have Tari Eason, who stepped up, but you have a bunch
20:52
of guys that have a bunch of size.
20:54
And then there's Reed Shepherd, who can, you know, hit the
20:57
threes occasionally there and is solid on defense during Phinney
21:01
Smith's acquisition has been a real net negative for them.
21:05
I mean, when he's not hitting his shots, he's looking
21:08
horrible. I mean, three points on the
21:10
season, they really are lacking a lot of depth.
21:12
I mean, it says it all when they have Clint Capela still playing
21:15
in 2026. I think everyone can admit if
21:18
you have him still playing, you're not in a great spot.
21:21
They still have Uncle Jeff Green out there.
21:23
I mean, the lack of depth is appalling.
21:26
And then on top of it, no point guard play.
21:28
You're led by Kevin Durant. We see what happens when Kevin
21:31
Durant's in a playoff situation. He pretty much balls up in a
21:33
corner and isn't, you know, he's pretty much getting triple
21:37
teamed by the best defensive team in NBA history.
21:41
I'll take Caruso against him any day, pretty much on an island.
21:44
And then Cason Wallace, Shea J Dub running up and down the
21:47
court against these guys. This is another situation where
21:50
maybe they could take one game off of us where Kevin Durant has
21:53
like 40 points or something like that.
21:55
Whereas a Minnesota team is way more organized.
21:58
They have Dante Di Vincenzo who's somewhere to.
22:01
Alex Crusoe is a glue piece for them.
22:03
He's also a top five shooter. Anthony Edwards is a top five
22:06
shooter. Jaden McDaniels has improved on
22:09
offense and he's one of the top five for top 10 defensive
22:13
players over there. They have solid depth compared
22:16
to this Houston team. Julius Randall also, you know,
22:21
is someone that can give you troubles here.
22:22
He usually figures it out when it comes to playoff time versus
22:26
I'm not sure if Jabari Smith, Tarisan are going to be ready
22:28
when it comes to the playoffs. I'm not too worried about Alper
22:31
and Shengun when it comes to the defensive end.
22:33
He's a solid offensive piece for them, but he hasn't stepped up
22:38
in the biggest moments. Rudy Gobert, where we've seen
22:41
him throughout his whole career, he's been a four time defensive
22:44
anchor and on top of that he's shown up in the play offs
22:46
multiple times. Nasrid will be ready when you
22:49
know his number is going to be called.
22:51
So just from, you know, the amount of death that the T
22:55
Wolves have and what Rockets are lacking, yeah, I'd rather face
23:00
the Rockets. All right, I'm going to start
23:02
off by saying last round you're defending how Curry, you
23:08
wouldn't want to face Curry because championship experience,
23:10
blah, blah. Then you want to face KD because
23:12
of championships because he's only one with Curry And
23:17
basically kind of the same idea that I know, not entirely the
23:20
same. He's only one with Curry, but
23:21
like he's still a vet who's got the championship DNA or
23:25
whatever. I don't know.
23:27
And then you also compared I'm and Thompson to Draymond Green.
23:31
But then last round you were talking about how you wouldn't
23:33
want to face Draymond Green anyway.
23:36
I want to get those out of the way.
23:38
We beat the Timberwolves 4 to one in the last conference
23:41
finals. It wasn't competitive at all.
23:45
They've they're a fake team basically, so I'd love to play
23:51
them. They've never really.
23:53
They always get there and then shit the bad because they're
23:57
fake. And then you also mentioned they
24:00
had lots of size. And that brings me to my main
24:03
point where, sorry, you said the Rockets have lots of size.
24:08
And I think the Rockets would not be ideal and it's because of
24:12
the way they match up with us. the Rockets are 6th and
24:14
three-point percent and hold their opponents to the third
24:18
lowest 3 point percent. And we know that's a formula for
24:22
us losing games. Like you said, you wouldn't want
24:24
to play the Warriors because they could light it up one day
24:28
and the three-point percent disparity against the Rockets
24:31
would be insane, especially with a team like us who we know
24:35
already. I don't shoot it great and when
24:37
we're not shooting it great, we can shoot something like 15%.
24:39
So when the Rockets are good at holding an opponent to that, I
24:43
do feel like we might be held to that, let alone them also being
24:47
a good three-point shooting team.
24:49
They're also 23rd in turnovers and that's normally where we get
24:52
teams the most. And they're also first in
24:54
rebounds. So like I was saying about Trail
24:56
Blazers being what like a team made-up of our Achilles heels.
25:00
the Rockets are the peak team made-up of our Achilles heels,
25:03
rebounding, holding opponents to three low 3 point percent and
25:08
shooting good. That's really how we get out
25:10
down, especially if they don't turn it over.
25:13
They they're one of the better teams in the league at turning
25:16
the ball over. So and like you said, they have
25:18
lots of size and I think that's more of a problem for OK, see, I
25:23
mean, Clint Capela is only playing because Steven Adams is
25:25
out. And if Steven Adams was in, then
25:27
I don't think we'd really be debating this right now because
25:29
that would make it even scarier. But yeah, they're really deep.
25:34
They have the size. That's where I was confident
25:37
against the Warriors because we have the guard play.
25:39
And like you said, they don't have a really have a point guard
25:42
out of Red Shepherd who has been hooping.
25:43
But yeah, their size makes them pretty scary.
25:47
And yeah, I, I haven't really touched on the Timberwolves
25:51
because, I mean, we've proven that we can beat them And
25:54
obviously ants a great player, Julius Randall can get locked
25:57
up. I think Gobert and Heinstein, I
26:00
like that match up quite well. Then they don't really have an
26:04
answer for Shay. They don't have the size to
26:07
match Shay. Jenny McDaniels is not the Shay
26:09
supper. Like Ant says, I started calling
26:13
his defence overrated and his offence underrated in pregame
26:17
shows this year purely based off match ups against OKC because he
26:22
can stop Shay. But credit to him, he's he's
26:26
become a pretty good offensive player.
26:28
But yeah, I'm not too worried about the Temple Wolves.
26:31
We've had their number and I mean like and even said it last
26:35
year, the KFCUFC OK C and five or whatever it was like, yeah,
26:40
I'm not too bothered with Minnesota at all.
26:44
And they don't really have the three-point shooting that a team
26:47
like Rockets have or like teams that can hurt us and they turn
26:51
it over a bit more than a team like the the Rockets.
26:55
And I think it just favors us a little bit more.
26:58
It will be harder to get downhill and in in the paint,
27:01
which we would have struggled in the first half half of the
27:03
season, but after that one Spurs game, but we just attacked
27:06
Wembe. You saw Caruso going into Wembe,
27:09
I think a flip switch and now we can really understand how to
27:12
attack the paint and go against bigger interior defensive teams.
27:16
So I'm not, I'm not too, right? Right now, right now, we're at a
27:22
point. Right now we're at a point of
27:24
piece. I'm going to give one of you
27:27
each 30 seconds. There's one thing in my mind
27:31
that proves the difference between the two teams.
27:34
If one of you could find what I'm thinking about, you're going
27:37
to get the point alone. If not, we'll go 11, obviously.
27:40
So after you kicked it off, so you get to kick it off.
27:42
There's one point where I think this this can be made.
27:49
So 30 seconds starts now. Or you could just finish up.
27:52
Your rebuttal. Yeah, I'm just going to finish
27:54
up my rebuttal because I'm not going to sit here and guess what
27:57
you're thinking. I know what my points are and
28:00
for me they're missing Fred Vanvleet, Steven Adams.
28:03
So those rebounding numbers are inflated.
28:06
Like I mentioned, they're not scary in that sense.
28:09
The other part about it is you're mentioning, you know, the
28:12
Timberwolves kind of flaming out against us and that's pretty
28:15
much what it was. We faced off against an Anthony
28:17
Edwards LED team, you know, later on into the playoffs
28:20
versus this time around. I don't think that would be the
28:23
case in a second round matchup. He's going to be pretty ready to
28:26
go in my opinion. And so that's where he's a lot
28:29
more scarier. And also the more you face off
28:31
of against a young guy, he's only 23 years old, he's going to
28:35
eventually learn how to get past you at some point and he's he's
28:39
turning into that this season, even in the regular season,
28:41
every single year he improves his game versus We already know
28:45
what Kevin Durant's going to give us as far as the matchups
28:48
go between both teams, all our matchups on our end.
28:52
I'm going to, you know, take that with against versus a, you
28:56
know, Timberwolves depth chart that I'm looking at.
28:59
There's some matchups that can be exploded from their end. the
29:03
Rockets just simply don't have the firepower.
29:06
Like, yeah, their three-point shooting is nice, but I think
29:09
from a playoff perspective with the defensive pieces that we
29:12
have, they're not going to be shooting those numbers.
29:15
That's just my belief. And we'll box up KD in a four in
29:19
one. I'm I'm chilling on that.
29:21
You're not going to box Anthony Edwards.
29:23
He's just too versatile. He's able to actually ball
29:25
handle. I'm going to take the ball
29:27
handling of Anthony Edwards and playmaking versus Kevin Durant,
29:31
and that's what it is. All right, Jack, 30 seconds.
29:37
I believe the thing you're looking for is no more Nikhil
29:41
Alexander Walker, and I hope it is because that was one more
29:45
point that I wanted to make. He was a big part of the team,
29:49
big part of the defensive identity and offense, and they
29:52
let him walk. Yeah, I'll.
29:55
Stop it there, I'll stop it there.
29:57
Jack gets the point. It's Nikhil Alexander Walker and
30:00
the reason being they have replaced Nikhil Alexander Walker
30:03
pretty decently regular season wise.
30:06
They brought in Bones Highland who's played decent minutes,
30:08
they brought in AO de Somu. I am not worried about any one
30:12
of those players in the playoffs.
30:14
Not the slightest. Nikhil Alexander Walker almost
30:18
won them a few games that they shouldn't have in that playoff
30:20
series last year. Obviously they only won one.
30:23
That was the answer I was looking for.
30:25
Point goes to Jack. We're at 22, Jack.
30:27
You start this one here. We're going to make where are we
30:30
here? Fourth topic.
30:32
We're going to make the case. Continue the playoff
30:35
conversation, Jack, who gets the minutes in the playoff
30:41
situation? And I don't want to hear.
30:44
And I know it's tough, but I don't want to hear.
30:45
It's game to game. It's situational.
30:47
Who gets the minute, Aaron Wiggins or Jared McCain?
30:51
I'm going to start off by saying it's game to game and
30:53
situational, but now I'm going to think about who I'm going to
30:55
choose. OK.
31:00
And we can't argue depend depending on.
31:03
What? No, no, none of that.
31:04
None of that. It would be too easy.
31:06
That's a cop out answer. I know it's probably the right
31:08
answer. But it does man.
31:10
OK, well yeah, the right answer is the never mind.
31:17
I am going to go with Wiggins by no surprise.
31:20
I'm going to start off by highlighting what the coaching
31:23
staff have been talking about in post game, but for the most
31:28
recent post game, talking about how Williams is in a slump and
31:30
they're going to keep sticking with them until he's back.
31:33
And we know that when Wiggins is on, he is on.
31:36
And he is one of our better bench players, to quote the
31:40
great Joseph de Blasio, a starting caliber player on any
31:43
other team. And yeah, right now, is he
31:49
better than McCain? No.
31:51
But I truly believe he'll get out of the slump by postseason
31:55
and this minutes will be his. He's earned them coming from.
31:58
I mean, he got drafted to a contract, full contract, and now
32:03
an extension. McCain's just been traded for.
32:07
I do believe both will play, but I do think Wiggins gets the edge
32:10
over more minutes and I think he might even be able to climb back
32:14
and reclaim some from Isaiah Joe depending on how the season
32:16
ends. But his three level scoring, I
32:19
know McCain has three level scoring as well, but I don't.
32:23
I think Wiggins works way better with teammates as such as Shay
32:29
J, Dub and AJ and I think that's really why he's in the slump at
32:32
the moment because all three of those have been out.
32:35
He's a fantastic cutter, like easily our best cutter on the
32:39
team and that's how he gets a lot of his buckets wide open
32:42
cuts. His three-point shooting is
32:45
pretty consistent and very clutch when it's on.
32:48
He's got a pretty neat mid range game.
32:50
Not better than Jared McCann by any means, but the scoring is
32:54
right there and the edge he has over McCain is this year he's
32:57
become a pretty above average defender, really like starting
33:02
into the identity. And it's been really relevant
33:04
these last couple weeks in this slump because he's still going
33:07
out there giving it. It was his all on defense and so
33:10
impacting winning even though we can't make a shot.
33:12
So and I think that's really important in playoffs and Mark
33:17
definitely values it as last year we saw Isaiah Joe fall out
33:20
of the rotation because he couldn't play defense.
33:23
So could they have it to McCain? Possibly.
33:25
But I think Wiggins is also he's just calmer in those like game
33:29
situations. He's that kind of player that
33:31
you put in for a spark. Him and Kendrick Williams, they
33:34
definitely are our spark guys. When the other team goes on a
33:37
round, we Chuck them in. They're always a calm head,
33:39
especially Wiggins. And I mean, the Aaron Wiggins
33:43
say boss for nickname is a bit of fun, but it is also it's
33:46
there because he comes up time and time in the clutch and makes
33:50
right play or a big momentum plays.
33:52
And it's not always making threes.
33:56
It's sometimes diving for release ball, getting a stop.
33:58
I mean, it's normally finally getting a rebound after the team
34:02
we're playing has had their 8th rebound in a row, offensive
34:06
rebound. But yeah, he's he's made for the
34:08
big moments and playoffs is the biggest moments.
34:10
So I think Wiggins should make should get the minutes.
34:17
I like all the points. This is definitely a close one
34:21
when you really look at their statistics and kind of what they
34:24
bring very similar players. And I think we recently talked
34:28
about this topic and I know kind of where Joe and Jack were kind
34:32
of leaning, but I'm going to stick with McCain kind of being
34:35
a McCain truth through over here and we've seen, you know,
34:39
Wiggins minutes kind of, you know, tend to tail off here.
34:43
That can be because, you know, the mention players like Shay J
34:47
Dub are out right now and he plays alongside them really
34:51
well. But we've seen the minutes that
34:52
he's played alongside Isaiah Joe and how much, you know,
34:55
uplifting he's done alongside Isaiah Joe.
34:57
But just a lot, you know, just as a stand alone player.
35:00
When we did the Members Only, we brought up how McCain brings up
35:03
the defense, brings up the offense from a three-point line
35:06
perspective just because of the gravity that he has.
35:10
I guess the point that I'll make for him is he's an half court
35:13
scoring player. And when it comes to the
35:15
playoffs, you need a pure half court spacer and a floor setter,
35:20
floor general. He's able to do all three of
35:22
those things. I I feel like Wiggins doesn't
35:24
have that ability from a point guard perspective.
35:26
He doesn't have that versatility.
35:28
Yeah, he can have the ball in his hands.
35:29
He can go isolation but create for others.
35:32
Not as well as Jared McCain can and I personally prefer guys
35:37
that have that ball handling ability to also create for
35:40
others. He also just doesn't need to be
35:43
a spot up player. He can you can set up set him up
35:45
for relocation plays. We see us doing that pretty
35:48
often. Similar to using Isaiah Joe.
35:50
I mean it forces defenders to chase him.
35:53
We have guys like Shay J Dub on the court and there's, you know,
35:56
players even taking their eye off of them for one second.
35:59
That creates way better looks versus we've never really ran
36:02
plays for Wiggins in that way. Creates more driving lanes for a
36:06
guy like SGA, like I mentioned, the gravity that he has.
36:11
He also I feel like punishes the drop coverage.
36:15
He he's great off of screens, not just if he's the screen
36:20
shutter. He he's really good at reading
36:22
plays. When you're a natural point
36:23
guard, you're able to do that a lot better.
36:26
I feel like you can just be used in way more versatile ways from
36:30
an offensive end and he's able to be hidden pretty well.
36:33
Yeah, he's a little bit shorter, but he does have that stockier
36:36
build. You have guys like Chet Door out
36:39
there, Cason Wallace, The other part about him, similar to
36:43
Wiggins, this is where I'm not going to knock Wiggins too
36:45
heavily, but you can pretty much flip 1/4 with a guy like this
36:49
within a 2 minute stretch. I mean he can come in knock down
36:52
3 fast ones and I feel like from a career perspective he's been a
36:57
little bit more consistent. Wiggins has up and down swings
37:00
whereas McCain has a lot less of those, at least not from what
37:04
I've noticed. I mean he's always been a good
37:06
three-point shooter. I guess the other point that
37:09
I'll make is lineup wise, he's been the most consistent factor
37:14
for Isaiah Joe. I mean, we're seeing that we're
37:18
prioritizing him by already giving him 20 plus minutes and,
37:22
you know, consecutive games. We've seen this.
37:25
I feel like he just raises the offensive ceiling in more ways
37:29
than Wiggins is able to, which raises the floor, you know, or
37:33
raises the ceiling for us to win playoff series.
37:36
He's a modern NBA player, shot maker.
37:39
That's pretty much what you need, and I prefer that over
37:42
just some solid wing minutes. Man, I won't.
37:50
Like are we rebuttling or? I'll give another 32nd rebuttal
37:55
each. All right.
37:57
I need it. I'm looking.
37:59
Yeah, you're mentioning about how Wiggins isn't a point guard,
38:03
and I totally agree. McCain's a better point guard
38:05
playmaker, all of that. Come playoffs, you're cutting
38:08
the rotation down and you've been an advocate for this,
38:10
especially saying you need to strict 8 man rotation or maybe
38:14
10 man rotation. We don't need point guard
38:16
minutes outside of AJ Shay and then J Dub.
38:22
And more than what? Sorry?
38:24
Like as in McCain will get some, but you're already given those
38:28
AJJ, Dub and Shay so it's going to be less.
38:30
So his role as a point guard won't be that big.
38:33
AJ is already coming off the bench as a primary handler and
38:36
then McCain slots in somewhere. But I still think.
38:40
Will be that's 3030 seconds, 30 seconds.
38:45
Your your point was definitely I I get you get 30 starting now.
38:50
All right, you're making my point for me.
38:52
You mentioned that eight man rotation.
38:55
You don't win just based on solid defense.
38:57
You win because someone comes in and flips a game and that's
39:00
Jordan McCain. He can flip a game.
39:01
His movement from the shooting position.
39:05
He can he's you have to guard him 25 feet out.
39:07
He's opening the floor for Shay and J Dub.
39:09
That's the biggest thing that you need.
39:11
He can already fit in really well with Lou Dorr.
39:13
He can also, you know, do the pick and pops with Chad.
39:17
He can also flip easy passes over to I heart.
39:21
So that's it. I think I'm siding what's that
39:28
we're here. I do think I'm siding what's
39:30
that we're here. I was giving Jack the benefit of
39:33
the doubt SAP here because there was were a few points I was
39:37
looking for, but you kind of squeezed it in there at the end.
39:40
One being, you know, McCain doesn't need to really have the
39:44
ball in his hands as much as Wiggins does, I believe.
39:47
I mean, you could run them around more, you know, more
39:50
plays on offense. You got like the Steph Curry
39:53
running around hitting the three.
39:54
I think he has a better mid range game.
39:57
And again, you mentioned it at the end where that's where you
40:00
kind of sold me. There's you got to go 25 feet
40:02
away from the basket because we've seen the range on the kid.
40:04
Obviously Wiggins was a 40% shooter before the slump.
40:07
Jack, what kind of hurts you is, yeah, we know what Wiggins is
40:12
with those guys around him like AJ and Shay and J Dub.
40:18
But we've kind of seen a consistent Jared McCain as of
40:22
now. Obviously it can't change.
40:23
We've kind of seen it a consistent Jared McCain in the
40:26
small sample size. With any line up that he's in,
40:29
it's a positive line up. So I'm going with Savir here.
40:32
Now we are at 2 two with one final topic here.
40:36
Forgive me because this is miserable.
40:38
This is miserable. If I'm if I'm not mistaken,
40:42
Savir, you get to start it off here, right?
40:45
Jack, did you go last run? All right, so Savir, you get to
40:48
start it off. Who is, I'm sorry, who is the
40:54
greatest Thunder basketball player of all time?
40:58
And. It's between Shay and Rose, by
41:00
the way. Yeah, yeah.
41:02
I mean, of course, I can see a lot of people jumping in with
41:08
Kevin Durant as well. There's some Kevin Durant
41:10
truthers out there because there's a good case to be made
41:13
because of the championships, and I wouldn't be surprised if
41:17
Jack went with him. But I feel like this is pretty
41:20
easy with choosing SGA as the best Thunder player to have ever
41:28
played. I mean, he's won a championship.
41:30
He's pretty much delivered on the scoring end.
41:34
He's controlling the pace, closing out games, anchoring top
41:38
team over and over. He's recently set a record I
41:42
believe with 30 plus point games over I believe the span of Four
41:48
Seasons, along with steals per game as well.
41:51
Best driving guard that we've ever seen, not above the rim,
41:54
but going towards the basket. So I feel like that's really
41:58
special. I know the points for Russell
42:00
Westbrook are pretty easy. He's kind of the underdog where
42:04
he's led to led his teams as a triple double machine.
42:08
There's something to be said for a player like that.
42:11
But when you compare a guy with the efficiency of SGA with he
42:18
just everything that he does on the court is more of a dominant
42:22
fashion outside of dunking the basketball than a Russell
42:25
Westbrook. And that's just sad to say
42:27
because we grew up alongside Russell Westbrook.
42:30
He's more of that electrifying story.
42:33
I feel like the story of Russell Westbrook brought more fans
42:38
towards him and I think SDA's skill set and kind of the modern
42:43
era going away from the mid range has negatively impacted
42:47
kind of the story of SCA. But I think over time he'll win
42:51
players over, win fanbase is over similar to what Russ did.
42:56
Russ's career, post career brought more fans on and I feel
43:01
like Shay will kind of have that same effect where we'll look
43:05
outside of Thunder fans, everyone else will look at Shay,
43:08
go to Alexander and say why didn't we watch him as he was
43:11
playing? And maybe some people never get
43:13
past the free throw merchant, whatever else it may be.
43:16
But outside of that, he's also turning into the top five player
43:21
in the NBA. Russell Westbrook, I don't
43:24
believe ever had that chance or opportunity.
43:26
He's never even sniffed top ten. He's already Shay Gil, just
43:29
Alexander's already a top ten player in my opinion ever and
43:32
he's sniffing top five. If he wins another MVP along
43:36
with the Finals MVP, he'd be the only player in recent history
43:40
other than a LeBron James. I think I just made a post about
43:44
that today. So there's so many points that
43:47
we can go towards him breaking. Wilt records, him breaking PER
43:51
records, efficiency records, you pretty much name it.
43:54
Consistency records. Him launching his own shoe.
43:58
I feel like he'll be a bigger name in and outside of
44:02
basketball, which is rare. I didn't think anyone would
44:04
surpass even Russell Westbrook outside of basketball in his own
44:10
pretty much state that he has been an owner of.
44:12
But I think I think Shay has that real possibility and he,
44:17
you know, feeds off the city of Oklahoma itself.
44:20
And I love that they're both kind of brothers with each other
44:26
as well. Like he he takes a lot of
44:28
mentorship from ACP 3, but he also takes a lot of mentorship
44:31
from Russell Westbrook and he's making that legacy even greater
44:36
by surpassing him so. I like that, Jack.
44:39
Here's the curveball. Do you agree with Savio with SGA
44:42
being the greatest? No and.
44:46
No, like actually like do you agree with?
44:51
Him greatest player as in skill wise I would agree, but I'm
44:56
going to approach it from a different angle to try and win
44:59
this point here. OK, go for it.
45:02
I was going to give you an opportunity to argue for SGA
45:04
too, but if you're with Ross, go for.
45:05
It just for the love of the game here I'm going to try yeah.
45:13
So the greatest Thunder player, Thunder's way more than just
45:16
basketball. After touching down in OKC, I
45:19
realized how integrated it is to the community.
45:21
Like it's it is the heartbeat of Oklahoma.
45:24
I can tell you there's not much going on outside of the OKC
45:27
Thunder from personal experience.
45:29
So I think Russ's legacy has been greater so far.
45:33
He's paved the way for a guy like Shady Carmen for the team
45:37
to stay there. His loyalty, everything he's
45:41
done has created the culture and everything that makes OKC thrive
45:45
today. And I think just the legacy he's
45:47
left has equated to someone like Shay being able to fit in and
45:54
flourish in OKC. And I think by the when it's all
45:58
said and done and Shay's got more years under his belt, he
46:01
might be able to surpass that. But just like culture wise and
46:05
the impact on Oklahoma and the Thunder, I think Russell
46:09
Westbrook has has the case to be greater than Shay in in a world
46:15
that's bigger than basketball. Obviously we're all fans because
46:20
of Russell Westbrook. Well, me and more Steven Adams,
46:22
but I, I didn't only watch Steven Adams when I was a kid.
46:26
There was a cool guy dunking the ball.
46:28
So I think his his impact on on the Thunder and Thunder fans is
46:35
just greatness. And yeah, I've twisted the
46:38
question a little bit there, but I think that's that's my.
46:42
No, I you know what, you know what, I agree with Savier, but
46:47
you just won yourself a point. You guys get a point because
46:49
that's a really good argument right there.
46:52
Like that's a really good perspective.
46:54
You each get a point. So now gentlemen, like that was
46:57
the last topic. So we're at a stalemate here.
46:59
You guys are tied. Here's the tiebreaker.
47:02
OK. And and and this is really just
47:04
for shits and gigs at this point, but both of you guys, I
47:06
want to congratulate you both because that was outstanding
47:08
today. Great debate.
47:11
We are time. The first person I'm not.
47:15
Not the first person who can guess Joe's favorite Thunder
47:20
player at the moment Today. Not tomorrow, not yesterday.
47:25
Well, maybe yesterday too. But today I'll give you each one
47:30
guess. If either of you get it, you
47:32
take it home. I'm sorry, but that's just the
47:33
rules. See this changes day-to-day hour
47:40
to hour it it could be different from when we started recording.
47:43
No, no, it's been pretty consistent.
47:45
I'll give you a hint, it's been pretty consistent for for a
47:48
little while now. I.
47:49
I got. I got my answer.
47:53
Jared became. Jared McCain to that beer.
48:02
I'll be honest, outside of Russell Rusberg being your
48:07
favorite player in the. Past no.
48:08
I'm plugging currently currently.
48:10
Right, I know I'm saying currently right now I honestly
48:13
have no clue who would say is your is it favorite?
48:18
Player at right at this moment I'll I'm more.
48:24
I know I'm not going to say it until it locks an answer in, but
48:26
I got my my 1A. Right.
48:29
Yeah, that worked. I don't even I'm putting 2
48:32
answers in by the way. Favorite player?
48:37
I'm stuck. Favorite player right now.
48:41
I mean, the first person comes to my mind.
48:45
I just like going with my gut. If I had to say, Joe, I think
48:48
this player has won you over. I'm going to argue for Isaiah.
48:51
Joe, I mean you're. Against, Call it, he wins, Sapio
48:55
wins. That's it, right?
48:57
Was that your second? Yes, Jack.
48:59
Yeah, you're against 3 point shooters and I think he's won
49:03
you over for for the first time ever.
49:06
Yeah, first time ever. This last few weeks with Isaiah
49:08
Joe, it's been like a man crush. Not to get weird, but hopefully
49:12
that remains the same. But yeah, as of right now,
49:15
Isaiah Joe's fucking dude. Gentlemen, technically, Zapper
49:18
was the actual debate. You both did a wonderful job.
49:21
To our members and our viewers, thank you so much for tuning
49:24
into episode 40 of the Bring the Thunder podcast.
49:28
If you like the video, like the video, subscribe to the channel,
49:31
turn post notifications on. Like I mentioned before, if you
49:35
aren't a member already, go over to our YouTube channel.
49:37
Go check out our premium subscriptions.
49:39
We offer members only videos, the most and the best of members
49:43
only content. I think as a Thunder podcast on
49:46
this YouTube platform, in my opinion, my humble opinion, you
49:50
can hop on games like this, episodes like this, debates like
49:54
this, even the members videos to post game lives, all that good
49:57
stuff. Just go check it out, give
49:59
yourself a chance to become a member.
50:00
Other than that, do you guys have anything else before we
50:02
wrap this up? Nah, man, member videos already
50:07
out for this week. We'll have one recorded right
50:12
after this. But yeah, I hope you guys
50:14
enjoyed this episode. I'm excited for Jack is hosting
50:18
the next one and we can kind of give a sneak preview of what may
50:22
be the topic is. So Jack, if you want to give a
50:26
little bit away. Yeah, to celebrate over a year
50:30
of making this, we're going to do a friendship test.
50:33
I'm going to send everyone 10 questions that are going to
50:36
answer with players or whatever, and we're either going to guess
50:41
who's answer to who's or guess what each other answered, but
50:46
something along those lines. All right, sounds great.
50:49
We'll see you guys then. As always, we'll be live.
50:52
They see this down the week. Further up, baby.
50:55
Let's go, everyone. Have a good night.