Latest / Breaking Mayberry / GOON ROYALE Episode 1: Marty Gets Killed by a Baby (w/ Adam Teterus)

Transcript

GOON ROYALE Episode 1: Marty Gets Killed by a Baby (w/ Adam Teterus) · Breaking Mayberry

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Marty here, I just want to do a
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: brief announcement before what you're about to hear. Dan and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I are taking a brief hiatus, a summer break for
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the month of June. That means no new episodes for June.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: We might do some re releases or bonus materials, but
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: nothing new. We'll be back in July to finish off
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: our Mad About Matt About You mini series, and then
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: we have some other sitcom goodies in store for you.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: But if you want more Breaking Mayberry during our break,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: you can always go to Patreon Patreon dot com slash
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Breaking Mayberry. There's access to all of our bonus content,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: extended episodes, bloopers, you name it. Eight dollars a month
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: gets you all access. And right now we're doing a
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: huge project over there that you've probably heard us tease,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Goon Royale, a thirty two movie tournament to determine which
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: action movie as the best henchmen, lackeys, flunkies and all
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: around goons from the way that they live to the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: various gory ways they die. We're talking John Wick. We're
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: talking hard Boiled. We're talking Big Trouble, Little China. We're
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: talking about that time that Robocops shot that guy in
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the dick. This is a huge project. We're doing a
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: lot of great guests, a lot of conversation. We're really
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: excited to share it with you. If you want the
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: full bracket to see all of the movies we're talking
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: about and all the matchups we're doing, check out the
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: link in the description. You're about to hear the complete
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: first episode of goon Royal with special guest Adam Teterris.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: If you like this, and I think you will, we'll
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: be slowly releasing the other episodes on our main feed
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: every four to six weeks, but right now on Patreon
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: you can hear all the episodes we've made so far.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: That's four episodes total, with a fifth one coming out
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: this week, all available on Patreon for you. If you
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: don't sign up on Patreon, you won't hear some of
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: these four months, so that's the stick. That's the appeal.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Dan and I will be back with new episodes in July,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: but for right now, head over to Patreon and we
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: hope you enjoy this first episode of goon Royale.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Breaking Mayberry goon Royale, a podcast
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: you can only hear by slicing a man's neck with
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: a cat just the right way. They say, it sounds
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: like the wailing winds of winter. I'm your host, Dan Ludwig,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: and while my host is currently chewing a slice of pizza,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: our guest a man that needs no introduction, who has
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: proven himself down to talk to us about literally anything,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: be it bigfoot, swamp thing, or in this case, assassin.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Well, whoa, whoa, whoa. You've got to go back and
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: read you that.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: Keep it in, Keep it in, keep it in. Let's
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: just mother, Why don't we just why don't we just
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: start this on a bad foot?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Keep it in?
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: All right, because here's what's happening in real time as
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: we're going to get into this tournament that you can explain.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: I won't. I'm now becoming an antagonist, all right, and
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: I think that's appropriate.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: So so immediately I have to Dan, I let you
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: be podcast dad for two minutes and you immediately screwed
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: it up. I'll go ahead.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: And you was pretty good though, right, you were doing
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: pretty good.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: This is this is Adam Teterris. He's been on the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: show several times. Man thing is what Dan was trying
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: to go for because it's right. Adam has a brand,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: a built around Marvel Comics giant sized man Thing. It
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: is really just essential to his personality and literally embedded
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: into his skin.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's absolutely correct, the.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Superior swamp based comics Monster. I do maintain that. Yeah,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I know I'm back.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: I've gone down from an antagonist to just a heavy
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: so yes, we you know, my rank went down because
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: my anger has been allaid. We're in a better position now,
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: and thanks for having me a board for this journey.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: I'm really looking forward to this. I don't know how
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: anyone can objectively or even subjectively qualify the things that
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: we're going to attempt to qualify and discuss. I have
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: some bones to pick, I have some Blu rays next
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: to me, and I have time on my hands. So
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: where do we start, gentlemen?
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I'm that other host, Marty Schneider.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Okay, so well, you know, obviously the swamp Thing thing.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: We can get that out of the way. Man Thing
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: came out to maybe three months before Swamp Thing in
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy one, so don't at me. He got here first.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: You can listen to previous episodes of your podcast of
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Breaking Mayberry in which I'm sure I've discussed this. And also,
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: you guys have been on my own podcast podcast once
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: upon a time that I produced an host called man
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Thing Minute. This is where it's going wrong. Dan, you
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: were on the show man Thing Minute. You haven't been
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: on swamp Thing second, have you? No?
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: I used to read man Thing comics as a kid.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I had no fucking idea who swamp thing was until
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I was like thirteen. One of the first comics I
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: read was the Thing versus man Thing.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, that's a really good way.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I really did like the idea of swamp Thing. Second though,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: like a very avant garde podcast that has released like
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: one second at a time.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: And it's also a double entendre because one Thing second
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: too is yeah thing, Yeah exactly.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: He did come second because man Thing is better at
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: not coming.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: He's better at gooning, and so we're already getting into
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: the gooning jokes. And I wanted to talk just a
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: little bit about your bracket, because I do I do
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: have a bone to pick with your bracket with one entry,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: but I also wanted a little bit of taxonomy, if
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: you will. There are four different regions of how this
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: is going to work. So maybe as you explain exactly
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: what it is that we're doing today and what we're
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: about to get into, maybe you can just assign some
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: taxonomy to the regions. What region am I doing with you?
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: What is that called?
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: And then maybe we can get into the specifics of
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: where I would love to see it. I want, you know,
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: I just want to see you consider a change up.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: The themes kind of emerged naturally from real like seating,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: like an attempt to balance, and then at the end
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh shit, these kind of grouped together.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not it's not perfect organization. Placement of
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Diehard in the gnarly bracket does not really make that
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: much sense. But we have the tough, dry bracket, which
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: is you know, real macho shit dudes like throwing each
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: other around, a lot of a lot of rismo. We
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: have the chaos bracket, where things are getting really insane,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: your raids, your dreads, a lot of explosions, like things
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: moving really fast, a little goofy. Here, we have the
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: gnarly bracket, where you know, limbs are exploding, RoboCop is
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: robocopping people, the goons are really getting eviscerated. In that one,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: and then you have the stone Cold bracket. This is
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: your domain, which is where we are keeping our assassins,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: are our ice cold killers, our real fucking psychopaths. So
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: that's that's what we've given you. Is is the deadliest bracket.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: I would say, got and thanks so much. I you know,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm sure obviously there's overlap between these brackets, because
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: as soon as it's getting into the dispatching of goons
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: and henchmen and what have you, this is happening unmasked.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: This is happening in in tremendous quantity. So you're going
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: to see some chaos and some gnarly and some machismo
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: and all those things just sort of like finding their
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: way across. I made a suggestion to you, Dan, a
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: personal appeal to include a personal favorite movie that I've
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: only seen just recently, and you obliged, and you have
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: included Hard Ticket to Hawaii in the Stone Cold bracket.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: And I will say, I'm thrilled to see Hard Ticket
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: to Hawaii in the tournament at all. I'm sure it
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: does not belong side by side with Tombstone for a
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: billion reasons, but I you know, I'm really glad to
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: see it, but I had a bone to pick with
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: is it's not tough guy? What's the Blade two? The
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Raid one? That's the Cat's chaos. Yeah, that's KOs not gnarly. Okay,
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: the Raid is in chaos, the Raid two is in gnarly,
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: and that is accurate. And I think this is where
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: it's going to get into the specifics of how we're
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: going to do this ranking, which I'm sure you're going
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: to get into, Dan, Are you know, are we talking
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: about one really great goon death does that do battle with?
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: Of course we're going to talk about kill Bill volume
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: one today. The Crazy eighty eight, Now that's a totally
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: different math. You know. It's it's quality versus quantity, and
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: then the Crazy eighty eight that's it's both as a
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: matter of fact. So I just thought maybe I could
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: appeal to you and show you a few movies that
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: I have that maybe you can tell me whether or
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: not you think any of these fit into the bracket
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: last minute?
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Is that cool?
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Okay? Yeah?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: For man?
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Fore man I dreading. The thing I'm truly dreading is
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: you being right, and it just throwing me into a
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: tail spin. I'm hoping that these pitches suck.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I have been present for Dan building this bracket, and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I was present for Dan planning his own wedding, and
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: you put.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: This one that's getting cut?
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: How dare you? Absolutely not? I will ext your wife
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Why don't we do it like this? You know, at
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: the end, at the end of Ezra Klein's podcast, he
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: always asks, you know, what, what have you been reading?
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: And you know, maybe this is kind of a reading list.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: How's that? And I'll say, you know, if you like
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: what I'm bringing, then maybe you would also enjoy what
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I've been enjoying. You know what I've been gooning to.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: If you will honorable mention at the very least.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Honorable mentions, Yeah, I just want to get them out
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: of the way so we can get them out of
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: the way and get down to business, right. Sex and Fury.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: I wanted to share sex and fury with you. Sex
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: and fury.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I smell sex fury here.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: And yes, thank you Marcy playgrounds. He you know, he
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: wrote the song about this movie and this Now, this
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: is great because it's all of the stuff that you'll
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: see in kill Bill Volume one. They're like that is
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: referenced by Quentin Tarantino. But this was the original stuff, right,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: not the references or Tarantino's version. This is kind of
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: like your Lady Snowblood. Blood is exclusively nude, and now
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: that's good. And what I like about this is sex
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: and fury. Promises sex and fury, you do get both
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: and in equal measure. Good gooning, gooning material all around,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: real gentlemen all around. And I just wanted to put
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: that one out here. I did want to share some
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: really classic Wo Sha movies. Again when it gets into
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Tarantino stuff, he's so good at bringing stuff together. But
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: I just want to heap praise on the originators, right,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: So this is this is like original Wu Shaw epic
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Chinese Hong Kong martial arts films, and these are really good. Now,
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Touch of Zen that's three hours long, so I don't
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: know how that's a lot of gooning.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, truly, that's a real marathon session.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Speaking of a marathon session, I just wanted to share
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: these with you. This is in the line of duty,
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: in the line of duty, and this is parts one
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: through four. The first one that I thought of was
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: a movie called Yes, Madam. In the line of dude,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: guess madam, Yeah, I'm gooning. Well that part's not on
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: the camera now, so I'm goooning. And I love these movies.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: And these are great because they are incredible action set pieces.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Same characters keep showing up in four movies, although they
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: have no linking narrative whatsoever. And I love that you
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: can jump in on any one of them and they've
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: got great action, great heavies. You know, this guy's gonna
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: come back and function up until he goes away. Heroic
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: trio that fits in there. I wanted you to consider
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: this one. Now, these two, I thought maybe this could
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: be like an entire category of Norse gooning.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: So Adam is holding up the north the north Man,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and is that Conan.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: The Northman and Conan the Barbarian Conan, oh.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Man, you have. Conan will also point out Adam owns
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Conan the Barbarian on four k Ultra HD and Adam
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: can I borrow that anytime? Now.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: This is distributed by Arrow. Arrow is a really great distributor.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: We like them a lot, love the Northman, really big
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: fan of Robert Eggers, and both of them are giving
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: you that like barbarian sauce.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Conan the Conqueror on the on the bracket, just for
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Wilt fucking Chamberlain. That yeah, that one, that one has
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: eaten at me.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Dan. I also have to say, Dan, we didn't think
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: this through. We definitely could have gotten a sponsorship from
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Arrow or Shout Factory or something like or Pluto TV
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Or TV or doob or Booby.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I will spend quite a bit of time like talking
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: about how tub is the people streaming service.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and I did watch Thirteen Assassins. Rewatched
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Thirteen Assassins on two B. I actually tried to watch
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: it on multiple platforms and all of them had ads.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: And I'll tell you what movie does not need ads.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: It's thirteen Assassins. That was a tough hang, but I
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: really enjoy that movie a lot. Takashi Mike movies should
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: not be punctuated by commercials for Dawn Soap, You know
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: what I mean?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: The part where also spoilers for all of these movies,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: The part where the limbless girl is dictating the horrible
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: tragedy that has befallen her was cut off midway through
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: to Call and All Call and All callin all Thrillionaires,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: which it would know not have been the worst timing
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: for that specific thing.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of gambling ads during my rewatch of
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: thirteen assassins, which is appropriate and not appropriate at all,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: given that they do in fact talk about the greatest gamble,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: which is the gamble of your life in your legacy.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I will also add I will also add that Shack
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: is clearly the goon for the General, right.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the General of the car It's insuring car,
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: It's car insurance. Yeah, yes, yeah, the two of them
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: are antagonistic.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I would say, I would say that. I would say that,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: or maybe it's like a Palpatine Darth Vader situation. I
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: think that, oh oh he's teaching. Yeah, the General is
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: absolutely the the puppet master. But like our main ant
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: here is Shaquille.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Cannon in the commercials that Shack and the General went
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: to high school together, so they are childhood friends.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Now, this is just like in Pee Weee's Christmas Special,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: in which it is revealed that Pee Wee Herman's Magic
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Screen and Magic Johnson are cousins. They are in fact
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: blood relatives, and so I you love to see those
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: kinds of relationships emerge. This is my last one. Boys,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to put this out here topic. This
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: movie absolutely rips you maybe could have had just a
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: val Kilmer bracket, and I would say that virtually everything
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: that we do in life, and I do mean the
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: royal we all of us would benefit from more valk
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Kilmer exposure. But you know, in Top Secret gives us
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: pure laughs, lots of goon deaths, just truly a lot
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: of nameless, faceless dispatch.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Part of this is how like it slowly dawns on
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Dan that he's going to need to produce an entire
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: second podcast in addition to this.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: This is a whole I don't know why you're saying
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: that this is like a mini thing or even a
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Patreon exclusive, because what you've stumbled upon Dan is like saying, well,
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to dip into never never Land. I'll
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: be right back. No no, no, no, no no, You're
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: gonna be there for it.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, Dan, I had some doubts myself
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: about the viability of this whole stick until I watched
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Tombstone today and I was like, this is really changing
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the way that I watched Tombstone, and I've got a
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: lot of points for.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: This, So yeah, I thought about that as well, Marty,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: because when I saw that Tombstone is in my list,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: I immediately thought, well, that does not strike me as
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: a goon centric movie. And then I rewatched it, me
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: and my laying on the couch, just watching it on
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: a Saturday. One of the most pleasurable things you can
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: do is just watching Tombstone hanging out. It's a great movie.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know how many times I've seen it, but
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: I watched it with a new perspective, and I applaud
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: you Dan for really refreshing my lens on what Tombstone
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: is doing.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: The Cowboys and the animosity you feel towards them is
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: the heat of that movie, like it is. The reason
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: it is good is that by the time Kurt Russell
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: is as pissed off as he gets, you are also
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: that pissed off just from having been around these little fuckers.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Sure, sure, save it, save it for when we do it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right. So our matchup is Kill Bill,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Volume one, directed by Quentin Tarantino two thousand and three.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: After waking up from a four year coma, a former
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: assassin reeks vengeance on the team of assassins who betrayed
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: her versus Showgun Assassin, directed by Robert Houston and Kenji Masoumi.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: A kind of fuzzy ground there. The year is nineteen
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: eighty when the wife of the showgun's decapitator is murdered
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: and he is ordered to commit suicide by a paranoid showgun.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: He and his four year old son escape and become
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: assassins from higher embarking on a journey of blood and
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: violent death. Any thoughts up top on these on these
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: two moves?
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Do you want to do one by one?
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: I want the I want the framework. What exactly are
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: we grading?
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: How are you breaking this down? And how are you
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: gonna discuss it? Can you give me a preview?
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: We got so it is two out of three wins.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: The first category, how are the grunts initially? How are
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: they when they die? We're talking the overall quality of
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: the cannon fodder, the heavies themselves, the individual standouts that
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: can give the hero a hard time. We're talking their looks,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: their esthetics, their personalities. That's scoring one. Round two is
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: how fun are the deaths? How these people die? Are
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: they flying backwards? Are they slumping to the ground? How
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: is the VFX how do the individual heavies die notable
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: and special kills and then three death acting? How well
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: are these performers selling the act of being mrked by
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the main care So we vote on each of those
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: on each of those rounds, two out of three takes
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: the matchup. So it's a combination of the holistic and
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: the individual, you know, big picture and then the highlights.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I think let's start by explaining exactly what so. I
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting Dan that you put these
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: two movies together. Number one, do you realize that in
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Kill Bill volume two they watched Shogun Assassin?
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Did you think about that when you paired this? No,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: it was pure coincidence.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: It was absolute synchronousy. Okay, yeah, I My intro to
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Shogun Assassin is from the Wu Tang clan. The choose
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: the ball or the sword thing is an intro to
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: a track in Liquid Swords thirty six chambers.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's on thirty six chambers.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I agree, So that is my intro to this.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I think we should explain what Shogun Assassin actually is
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: For those unfamiliar up up top, I have to wonder, like,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: is this cheating but Shogun Assassin nineteen eighty is actually
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: made of It's kind of a clip show of two
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: or three different movies in the Lone Wolf and Cub
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: series based on the manga. So there is a Lone
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Wolf and Cub is a long running TV series, manga
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: movie series. So these films are made in Japan in
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the seventies and then yes, Robert Houston grabs the rights
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: in the late seventies and releases this in the eight
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty. So what we watched in Shogun Assassin
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: is an americanized version that takes like the first two
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: movies and pretty much it's like, here's all the cool
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: shit from it, Yeah, merges them together, puts a wild
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: synth soundtrack behind it, you know, very Marauder in there,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and then just kind of runs it while there's a
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: little narrator. They give the baby boy the cub a
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: narration device, so he's like the framing device for the
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: entire thing. Is this cheating? I will say if we
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: are talking in terms of just like my Letterbox review,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I had to factor that in, like as a narrative movie, Like,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: but we're not talking about the quality of the movie overall.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: But if we're talking about quality of the movie overall.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, that's cool. It is m hm.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: As Adam pointed out, it is the general So's pizza,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: which is what I am eating right now, of movies.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: It is a bastardized Americanized thing that should not exist.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: But well, you know what, I think, that's what these
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: two movies, Kill Bill Volume one and Chogun Assassin truly
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: have in common, because both of them are doing the
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: same thing in different measure. Both of them are Americans'
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: play on these Shaw brothers or in this case, you know,
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: Japanese film series from the nineteen seventies, taking them, morphing them,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: combining them, stretching them, transmogrifying them into something cool but
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: very much not their own thing. And so both of
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: these movies Kill Bill and Shogun Assassin are movies that say,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: to me, these are read I pray. I wish the
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: outcome was more viewers would go back and watch the
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: ogs because Shogun Assassin is like the first ten minutes
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: of the first Lone Wolf and Cub and a lot
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: almost all of the action sequences from the second film.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: There are six movies in Lone Wolf and Cub six,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: all of them are on the Criterion Channel. You can
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: get them all on Blu Ray and they look gorgeous,
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: So I would I would encourage people to check out
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: all of them. But I do think that's what these
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: have in common. These are like influenced Amalgam Adams Adam.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Are you saying that silly Caucasian girl likes to play
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: with samurai swords?
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Well, here's another combination here. Kill Bill and Shogun Assassin
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: both feature a four year old child. You know, Verdina's
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Green's four year old child is left spared at the
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: beginning of Kill Bill only one, and Cub of the
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Lone Wolf and Cub Combo is a four year old child,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: And so I think there's there's some potent future for
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: goon dispatching in both of those.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: I am.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I'm in the process of working my way through the
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Lone Wolf and Cub film series.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Great Flecks, Great.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Flecks, And with Showgun Assassin, you are missing a lot
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: of nuance and and like intricacy, but you are also
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: missing about thirty to forty minutes of dudes explaining their
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: textile trading situation.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: So look, look that's cool shit. Okay, the older you get,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: the more you realize that some of that talkie stuff
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: is important drama that brings things together and adds a
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: historical texture. And I want to add one more thing.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Shogun Assassin doesn't just get rid of virtually all of
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: the plot. It also gets rid of the sex scenes.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: And there is a lot of very cool nudity in
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: this series. Lone Wolf and Cub and the the there's
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: nudity in Chogun Assassin, but it is all motherly in nature.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, they get rid of all
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: the sex scenes.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: In fact, it's actually weirdly motherly because like the first
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: shot of Shogun Assassin is a titty, Like it's just.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Like his breast.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: There is a titty, and you're like, oh, a titty,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: and then a baby comes into frame right, and you're
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: like yes.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: And then later you have Cub and of a very
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: fake baby's hand touching uh.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Just punching that titty. There's a lot of honestly, think, Dan,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: you should you should have talked, you should have put
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: the titty in the list of goons that get beat up,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: because that maybe is just lap in that tit around
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: it's totally different. It's like Rocky in the slab of
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: beef on that thing man.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Oh no, not good.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Not good. So I'll say this, and this might be
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: it might be recency biased because I did just watch
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Kill Bill Volume one, and I'm like, I like kill
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Bill Volume one a lot. I watched the Crazy eighty
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: eight fights and this is really early, but I'm like,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: this is gonna be a tough one in the competition
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: to beat. I think this is to be a ringer.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: And I said it'd be so like basic film Broie
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: if a Tarantino movie won this. And then I also
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: kicked myself because as long as we're shit talking our
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: rankings here, Dan, I looked at you earlier. I was like,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: do we need two John wu movies on here? And
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that we have two Quentin Tarantinos
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: on the bracket as well. Yes, but that's okay, it's okay.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know this is basic film Browie, but
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: we'll fucking run this. Adam is already giving us so
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: much clout last thing I will say. I will say
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I have a note here because I need to point
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: it out. I don't know how we haven't talked about
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: it before, Dan, you and I talk about monopoly man
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: jokes a lot, right, Adam, for what that is, It's
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: a Dan Harmon concept about like when you egregiously set
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: something up in the script. It comes from Ace Venturer
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: to where they dress a guy up like the monopoly
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Man just so Aventura can go, you look like the
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: monopoly Man. We've never talked about this, but Kill Bill
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Volume one has an egregious monopoly Man joke where they
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: dress the bald guy up in a yellow kimono with
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Athley Brown just they make that guy look like Charlie
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Brown and we see him enter the like escort the
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: crazy idy eights into their spot, and you're like, that
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: guy looks like Charlie Brown. Why does he have this
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: bright yellow kimona with the Charlie Brown stripe on it?
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Just so that a guy in the next thing you
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: can go, you look like Charlie Brown.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: It's not even like a normal looking kimoo that just
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: happens to have the stripe on it. I think the
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: stripe has been painted on in the exact Charlie Brown pattern,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Like it would be one thing if it was like, oh, yeah,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I guess it does kind of look like Charlie Brown.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: But yeah, did either of you see the recent four
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: k re release where they combined both Volume one and
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Volume two two. So if you had the opportunity, then
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: you would have seen that one of the scenes that
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: made it back into the film. You know that guy
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: in the club goes to kick a football and then
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Oreannie she takes a football away like really right at
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: the last minute, and then he falls down.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: And that scene is fifteen minutes.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that scene is fifteen minutes. And you know
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: what's crazy about that scene? They say the N word
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: so many times and it's just like a Tarantino and
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: when he's doing it, it's cool, guys, when he's doing it.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, and we should also point out that there are
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: like twenty different close ups of feet in that Oh
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: she is putting the ball on her foot and it's
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: it's there for like a good solid seven minutes.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Is that criteria? Could we include that? You know, definitely
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: a different kind of gooning, you know, all the foot
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: stuff in the Tarantino picture.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Every time I watch a Tarantino movie, I am surprised
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: by a different foot thing that slipped by me the
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: first time. I'm like, I didn't even clock that that
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: was that? That was what he was doing there. For me,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: the son of a Bitch works them in so smoothly.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: For me this time it was when the fire, not
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the Crazy eighty age, but when the five six, seven
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: eighths are playing at the at the bathhouse, like they're
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: doing the do Do Doo Doo Doo. It just for
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: like one brief second it cuts to them and their
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: their feet because they're dancing on the stage barefoot while playing.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: And I think at first, like when the first time
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, that's fun, They're cute, they're having fun,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: like a like a beach party. Oh god damn it. Yeah.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: It's that went from like the coolest film fact when
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I was fourteen, like did you know that Quentin Tyrantino
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: has a foot fetish? That's why there's like shoeless ladies
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and all of his stuff. And now it's like, oh
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: my god, dude, we fucking get it.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Like I don't even blame him. I hear what you're saying,
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: but I don't even blame him. It's more of the
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: experience that I'm having now is now that I know
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: these things. When I watch these movies, I'm thinking about
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: how my brain is ruined now at this age, and
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: it wasn't before, and here we are we to deal
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: with this now and get ahead of ourselves by saying,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: we're having this entire tournament in which we're talking about
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: goons being beat up, and you know, up until recently,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: goons only meant that was only one meaning. There was
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: only really one interpretation of what the word goon was.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: And here I am thinking, I'm not even going to
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: ask for details. As soon as I hear something awful,
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: I do a total one to eighty. We're going into
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: a different direction. But the point is I'm not. I'm not.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: It's more that I'm just sitting here thinking, well, my
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: brain is ruined. Everything's changed, the perversion has has kind
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: of taken over me, and I can never go back.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's it's right, that's right. What do they
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: call its smooth brain or it's smooth brain stuff. I
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: don't like the situation we're in, but all right.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I went on and off on this tirade before, but
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: I'll do it again. Goon is one of the best words,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: like in terms of like phonetically still is, and we
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: already have so many things for jacking off like we have.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I would say maybe triple digit ways to say that
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: you are whacking it and we just needed another one.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: It is my time to say if you've got the
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: opportunity to see that new re release where they put
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: Kill Bill Volume one and volume two together and they
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: released it in theaters as one long picture. They did
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: update it as well, so it's not the Crazy eighty eight,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: it's the it's the Crazy six to seven now, damn.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: And I just wanted to let you know that you
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: know all of your nostalgia. It's very sweet, it's very nice,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: but it's over, buddy. We lost all.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Right round one. We are doing goon quality. How are
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: the grunts? On the kill Bill side, we have the
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Boss Matsumai Yakuza from the animated scene, which I think
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: may have some debate. I don't know how on board
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: we all are with that, and the Crazy eighty eight.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: On the Showgun Assassin side, we have the Showgun's Ninjas,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: the Showguns Guards, Lady Kuragawa's Ninja, the Ninja Women, the
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Dancing Ninja Women, the Priestess Ninja, the Farmer Ninja ladies.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Now one of those two has a clear advantage in
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: that it includes the Crazy eighty eight, which feels borderline unfair.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I have a couple of questions on kill Bill.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Number one, does Buck, who came here to fuck, count
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: as a goon?
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: Great question? He does have a motivation? Is not? Again,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: it doesn't work because Buck came here to fuck, which
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: is a motive like he is not following it orders
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: In fact, he's got a thing that he I will say.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: This, I think a lot of this comes down to
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: vibe and charm. And I will say since Buck doesn't
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: work for anyone, it doesn't it doesn't count. I think
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: you know a lot of it is you can. I
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: think you can break it down by person. Technically, right,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Darth Vader is even though he's not technically the one
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: in charge, he is working for somebody. Darth Vader is
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: categorically not a goon. He is the main antagonist. And
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: oh Renny, she is the main antagonist of this movie,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: even though she works for Bill. Right, So those guys
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: don't count. Boba Fett absolutely a heavy Right doesn't have
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: a lot going for him. And I think I think,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: though you can have, it comes down to like the charm,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I guess or because we'll argue about this with Johnny
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Ringo when we get into tombs, and we're gonna have
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: to argue a lot about Johnny Ringo, whether he should
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: count or not. So I think it's me a little
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: bit of debate. So Buck, who came here to fuck
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: off the table? What about the accuse of boss who
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: oh Wren cuts the head off of in her flashback.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: Or for that matter, his his grunts that you know
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: o Wren shoots you know while she's under the bed.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm talking about I'm talking about the
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: when she takes the throne.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: At the table. Any of you sons of bitches have anything?
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, guy, yeah, no, not a not a not a goon,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: not a heavy.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: That's his name is bossa Kasas. So it is Boss
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: in his name, right, So yeah, good. Just want to
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: get that out of the way.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: The animated scenes, we're including those, right, we all we
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: all cool with that?
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Will count? I think we should count the animated scenes.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: There aren't as many as I thought there were.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cannon, you know. It is a part of
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: her story. It makes me wish and unfortunately I'm damning
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: you to fulfill this wish. It makes me wish that
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: there was you know, a Goon Tournament for anime because
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of great stuff in here. You know,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: I'm watchue that enjoy watching it, not not for not
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: for anime. You know that like people watch now, I'm
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: talking about anime that matters and it is important like
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Ninja Scroll. Uh. You know, there's really great stuff in there.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: In there, but you know we're also a wonderful time sequence.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: When I watched that sequence, I can't help but think, Gosh,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: the guy who directed this made some of the best
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: anime action sequences. And if this counts, what you know,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: where does that door lead us to? But I do
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: think it counts. I do think Adam one.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: On that we get with me after this, we're gonna
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: start We're gonna start work immediately.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, great love to hear.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna We're doing Goon Royale Anime Edition after this.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: And I have a sack of Blu Ray here and
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: this one's just Hentai actually, so I wanted to run.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: I could just kind of make a bracket on my own.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you, Adam would not be our first
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: time making making Marty watch Hentai on this Patreon.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: The Andy Griffith Show got experimental.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: It honestly wouldn't be the first time, I explained, and
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: TI on the main feed.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, who is in her?
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I say? I got a very fun text from my
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: little sister who is about to be on the show.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: At one point she texted me and she said, I
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: picked the wrong episode to start listening to. Why is
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: my brother describing tentacle porn right now?
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: Ah?
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: All right, let's start with Showgun Assassin. Okay, So the
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: main groups are just sort of the general guys that
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: work for the Showgun, who are mostly in the earlier scenes.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: And then you have Lord Kuragawa's Ninja, who have the
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: big hats and cloaks, variety of weapons, sort of more
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: standard ninja. And then you have I think the most
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: interesting one, which is the Lady Ninja who do bits.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: One of them is farmer Lady Ninja who just throw
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: root vetcha yeah at the main characters and then after
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: doing that are like, oh yeah, but also we're stabbing.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: And then you have the Masters of Death. So those
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: are the categories. I would say the first group, the
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: general showgun guards, fairly forgettable, just kind of scared shitless
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: the whole time. Yeah, they they're just kind of there
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: to be ripped through, I think, sort of to establish
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: establish Lone Wolf's bona fides.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, they get a couple of
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: okay moments, I think like in the Waterfall fight or
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the river fight, I think that is pretty cool. But
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: otherwise these guys are pretty forgettable. They are they're putty patrol.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I'm going to keep.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: But at a certain point in time, it's it's not
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: just to you know, show us what Lone Wolf is
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: capable of, but instead what the baby carriage is capable of.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: At a certain point in time, we're dealing with grunts,
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: not because the grunts are significant, but just so we
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: can see swords pop out of the baby carriage wheels.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: And that's good too, right, Sometimes you got to see
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Batman use the utility belt just so you know what's
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: in there.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: And that is the function that they serve here, essentially, is.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: That is the Lord kurragawis Ninchs or primarily that in
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: the Bamboo Forest fight, that's when Lone Wolf's sword gets
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: taken and he's like time to go, James bond with
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: this baby carriage.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Here's a question. Here's a question, And this can just
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: be individual judging style. How much do you want to
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: factor in whether or not they ever seem like a
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: threat to our protagonist? And also not everybody here dies
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: by the protagonist.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: I you know what, I think that's actually a really
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: interesting factor, and probably the delineation between grades of good, right,
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: because if they seem like a threat even remotely, then
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: they're probably a heavy at least. Yeah, right, But I don't.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Know, I'd say, sometimes it's fun to have the goons be,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: you know, really taken it to the main character coming
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: at him, be dangerous, and sometimes it's more fun for
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: them to just be a bunch of dipshits flailing around
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: while getting mowed down. So I think it's you know,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: there's there's pros and cons to how dangerous the henchmen actually.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: So I'll say this, let's let's talk about n the
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Ninja women. Right. The Ninja Women's best like sequence is
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: when they're introduced. They're introduced by killing a guy that
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Dan has listed here as has a heavy named Juni.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: So they're they're enlisted into this fight to kill lone
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Wolf on behalf of the Showgun and they show off
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: how badass these women are by just like having them
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: cut one of the heavy dudes to shreds, like while
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: they're hopping and jumping around, and that's kind of their
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: best scene. When it comes to them they take.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Him apart, like mister Potato and basically.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's and they put all of his pieces up,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: like you know, you.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Know the part of Princess Bride where Carrie always where
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Leslie describes to the pain and it's like we're gonna
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: chop off each part of you for like this, etc. There.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: They just do that to this guy. They just doing
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: this dude. Yeah, and that's their best scene. When it
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: comes to them fighting lone Wolf, they are they're kind
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: of clowns. They're kind of like in one case, literally
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: they're doing like circus performer acts and they're like, look,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: we're doing a circus performer houna hoop of death, like yeah,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: you know. So there's a huge downgrade honestly to these
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: women from the way they're introduced to the way that
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: they are like actually put into battle, and I'll count
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that against the movie.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing I'll say about the women Ninja, but
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: also a lot across the board Showgun Assassin Goods not
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: really that worried about dying, like pretty okay with it.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: There's one of the earliest kills is two guys that
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: run up on lone Wolf, gets chopped in the head,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: grabs the blade so another dude can jump over him.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: That that was the plan. That was like, that's my
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: first strategy is I'm gonna get stabbed in the head
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: die so that you can take a crack with a
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: mild advantage. And like the Juni escape the room scene,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: that dude was knew he was going to die, Like
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: he was like, I'll give it a shot. Maybe I'll
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: be ripped limb from limb by a room full of women.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: But them's the breaks, Like.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Now we have we have to talk about. I think
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: I think we'll blend these here, right. Uh. The leader
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: of the Ninja women is a Zamie also aka the
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Supreme Ninja. So she's a heavy and she does not die.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: I mean she kind of it's said that she's going
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: to kill herself off screen, but yeah, I do think
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: we need to talk about her because she has an
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: ejector seat in her brazier. In her she has like
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: an ejector kimono. She launches herself out of a Komo
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: like but chew and then lands in like this sexy
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: fish net outfit and then runs backwards.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Runs backwards.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Easily the weirdest sequence of the movie.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: My favorite part of the movie.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: The ejector seat out of the kimono. Personal favorite part
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: of the movie. I really love it. If I were
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: a Lone Wolf, maybe that would have been one of
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: the very few things that would make me say, Okay,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: I didn't prepare for that, but I It threw him off,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: but not threateningly.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: He just kind of hangs out while it happened. She
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: runs backwards for like a quarter mile while he just
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: stands there. She doesn't turn around to run away.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: That's her retreat.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Watches her.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the exit strategy.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: This is also this is also Lone Wolf's plan of existing.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: There are multiple times where he is near or nearly
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: confronted by people who are going to attack him soon,
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: and he's just chilling. You know, He's hanging out with
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: a master of death on a ship, just hanging out.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: And it is it is certainly made known that a
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: fight is going to happen because he knows the weapons,
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: he knows that they're there, and he returns the throwing
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: knife to the one guy sword hilt, right, but you
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: know his thing is just saying, I don't know, they
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: can come to me, you know. I'm like, I'm not going.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: I'm not getting them for this.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: So in one scene, actually the like entire third act
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: of the movie, Lone Wolf has been hired to kill
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: a lord that is being bodyguarded by these three dudes,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: the Masters of Death. Yes, and they're actually all on
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: a transport ship together, and they do not They barely
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: fight on the ship because because the Master of Death
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: are busy with like a rebellion, there are some rebels
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: that are trying to also get to this lord. And
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: so there's a moment where the Master of the Death,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: like after the ship has been lit on fire, the
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Masters of the Death are just like, hey, man, do
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: you want to you want to not do this right now?
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Like we're cool with you, like like we can the
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: ships on fire, I don't cut, Let's let's just pick
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: this up later, man. And another part I like of
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: this movie and.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Should say, hey man, you you seem cool, Like we
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: like your vibe. You seem like you would be a
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: chill hang in other circumstances, we're gonna bounce, but just
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: just later. I hope you have a good one.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we saw you from across the room and we
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: really like your vibe and we were wondering if maybe
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: we could fight in the desert later. Really, this is
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: kind of the issue with Shogun Assassin all told, which
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: is we are left to put all of the context
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: together for ourselves because this is a movie that has
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: stripped all of these contents and lore and story out
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: of the film. There's a reason why these guys show
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: up in Lone Wolf and Cub in the second movie.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: You know, it's not hyper detailed, but there's build up,
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: there's there, there's stuff happening in between the see, there's.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Ultimate there's a complex trade negotiation happening.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: Look, man, look you can dog it all day. I
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: think here's the thing is, I'm coming from the vantage
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: of being a huge Godzilla fan, and in Godzilla movies,
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: when they get localized, they are made intentionally stupid, which
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: causes audiences to say and assume these movies must be dumb,
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: and that that is definitely something that does not suck.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Right, I'll go ahead and say, like the nineteen eighty
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Showgun in Assassin is dumb. It's a dumb movie.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, super fun, super fun.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: But as hell, this movie is super dumb and like
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: there is no narrative consistency through this and like they've
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: because they've stripped everything out and they've just relying on
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: this kid's narration to carry it along. By the way,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: I also want to sneak it in there because we're
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: talking about the brotherhood or the brownness between the Masters
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: of Death and Lone Wolf my second Princess Bride reference
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: of the day. It's a real like you seem a
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: decent fellow. I hate to kill you.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: The Masters of Death are fucking cool and do seem
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: like I would just I would watch a movie about
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: the Masters of Death.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: They're called the Masters of Death.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Like they're so sick.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: I like the guys with the baskets on their heads
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: that get chopped in the head, and that was the plan,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: because to me, that is a terrific expression of what
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: this movie is doing with its grunt, which is they
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: know they're getting chopped up, so I may as well
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: let that happen and allow for an open window to
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: get another attack in. And you don't normally see that
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: in Goon's getting taken down. It doesn't happen in tombstone.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: He's like, yes, I shot you. You shot me, so
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: there would be a big hole in my abdomen, so
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: Johnny can shoot you through that giant hole, you know.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: Like I like to see that level of coordination between
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: people who know their death is.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Not Every grunt thinks they're gonna be the one that
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: shoots john Wick, right, but they're gonna be. These guys
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: are all like, nope, I am like they are almost
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: aware of their They've read the script. They like.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: It's very because they're really like I will I will
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: run up to him and I will be stabbed in
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: the head, but that will dull his blade slightly, so
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: maybe four hundred grunts from now, his sword will take
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: slightly longer to chop through a man, thus giving someone
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: the advantage like.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Real dungeon the Dragon's Paladin energy. Like, yes, I'm providing
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: a buff.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: I know that these grunts are not threatening. I love
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: them though, And I know when that when the dancing
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: Nina ladies, when that like seventies freak out sequence happens
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: with their colorful robes and it's they're clowning around doing
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: acrobatic trips. You know, they're not making a lot of
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: headway in terms of their goal of killing the lone Wolf,
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: but boy, I love that fun to watch.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: I do want to say about the Masters of Death.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: So their three weapons are a club, sharp knuck like
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: spiked knuckles, and claws, and I do like them as
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: rad as those weapons are worse than just sorts like
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: in terms of practical killing effects. The club guy in particular,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: just has a fucking stick that he has to hit
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: people with like four or five times to kill them.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, super good for a killing Fremen hiding under the sand.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: You know that the claw really great in terms of
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: killing things under the sand, but not efficient for really anything.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I was wondering how long it would take you to
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: get to Dune.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: Not long, but when they when they popped up out
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: of the sand, I thought, oh, okay, we're in familiar territory.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: My Iracus might do.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I mean Adam Adam is also a big fan of
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: space politics, which is why Dune is his shit. That's
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: Adam Adam's in here, Like you didn't get into the
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: trade routes. Fourteen year old Adam watched episode one, and
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: it was like, yes, tariffs, international tariff and tax policy.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, yeah, I would love more, love more from
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: the Charade Federation. Wish they weren't super racist, but would
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: love to know what they were doing here.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I see, I say. I also have a pretty good
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: tolerance for space politics. So all right, but I think
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: we got it.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: All right, let's let's talk. Let's talk the Crazy eighties.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: They're so fucking cool.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: The thing I like about the Crazy eight eighties do
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: you see them at first, and they are the sickest,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: coolest badasses ever. They have the best uniforms, the best masks,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: the best music plays when they're boning around the motorcycles,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: and then they start fighting and you are like, oh,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: these are children.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: In one case literally, yes.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: These are a bunch of idiot jackasses with swords. These
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: are not the cool collected motherfuckers they are like, these
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: are a bunch of fucking teenagers that are running around
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: like lighting fun go go.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Is Yo Yabari, who is like the main heavy is Yeah,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: canonically she's seventeen years old. She's a kid.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, she's been killing since age eleven, so you
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: know she's been around.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like Lucy Lou has kind of fucking
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: lost boys thing going on.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: Oh that's right. Orainy she is the one who has
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: been killing since age eleven because she saw her parents
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: get killed and then she gets revenge. Because truly, one
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: of the most terrible lines to remember from this movie
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: is you know what a lovely thing for Orainy she
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: how lucky it is that this guy's a pedal.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just watched it. The full line, if we're
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: gonna get it is Fortunately Bosmostumait was a pedophile.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Not great, not loving it, but you know, within the context,
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: you know, justice be done swiftly. So there's that Go
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Go is great, She's very young, Go Go's whole vibe.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: I feel like the thing that's wonderful about the Crazy
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: eighty eight is not any individual one, but they are
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: just the most unmass as far as the quantity goes.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: And I wanted to know how we were going to
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: deal with the number thing. So in Shogun Assassin we
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: get from the narrator the child who's four a number,
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: a ticker of how many people lone Wolf is killed.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: And the first time that we deal with this that
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: the little boy says three hundred and forty two, and
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: then three more die. Make that three hundred and forty five,
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: and of course that keeps ticking up, up, up as
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: we continue to watch the movie. Now, in the situation
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: of the crazy eighty eight, we've got a number right there.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: They're not the only ones who are dealt with throughout
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: the film, but eighty eight is certainly not three hundred
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: and forty two. He does kill eighty of the eighty eight,
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: that's right, that's right, yeah, and others given that Go
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: Go dies too, And I say.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if Go Goo and Johnny Mo.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: She says that Johnny Mo is the general of the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: eighty eight.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: So I think eighty nine he's one of the eight. Yeah,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: go Go.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's one of the eighty eight because
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: she doesn't wear the mask so well, so the eighth.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe she's in this six seven is my understanding.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Right, he is in there because you know she's seventeen,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: although she was seventeen in two thousand and six, which
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: would make her thirty eight right now.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: So God, she's dead.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Had she lived, Had she lived, Go Go would be
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: a sick poster on Blue Sky Gogo would have so
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: many Blue Sky followers.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: In my opinion, I would give a point like it's
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: hard to deal with we're all circling around. This is
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: Crazy eighty eight, one of the most iconic huge goon
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: killing action sequences of all time and stands the test
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: of time. But I want to give an additional point
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: to our boy Lone wolfs for them the number. He's
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: been doing a great job on quantity.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: I I think he should get I think he should
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: get kudos for the sheer volume because it is like
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: the eighty eighty eight is one unmass killing. Lone Wolf
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: is just essentially getting this slow conveyor belt of assholes
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: that are running towards him single file going yeah, and
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: then getting and then he stabs him, and then the
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: next guy just comes up like ah, so yeah, he
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: does have just kind of like constant stream almost. He's
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: just kind of like holding his blade out to the
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: side and a guy is running directly into it and
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: getting beheaded.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: So can I just say I walked into this totally
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: prepared to just give this to kill Bill in a landslide.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: But what Dan just said about like the Crazy eighty
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: eight being like fucking shitty teenagers like Dan and I
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: were once at the Round one in the mall when
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: a bunch of teens started getting into a fight and
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: the fight was like a whirlpool and it just kept
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: getting close closer and closer to us, like more teens
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: got involved, and Dan and I for a brief second
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: we were like, we're adults, we should do something, and
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: then we were like, absolutely not, we need to get
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: the hell out of here. And I guess when you say,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: when Dan reveals that the Crazy eighty eight are just
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: asshole teenagers I would deal with at the mall who
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: just have cool masks and clothes or whatever, that kind
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: of makes me like the Crazy eighty eight less. That
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: kind of makes me like their vibe less. Go Go
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: still cool, Johnny Mo still cool, but also that coolness
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: is stolen from other stuff. Johnny Mo is cool because
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: he looks like Kato, and Kato was Bruce Lee, and
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Bruce Lee is cool. Go Go is cool because she
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: looks like one of the girls from House. I guess like,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot you can deal with the spooky
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Japanese like school girl aesthetic. So good web and it's
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: a good weapon. A good weapon which comes from what
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: House of Flying Daggers like, you know, so it is
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: it is borrowed coolness. But do I care about that
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: that much like if you remix, if you remix a
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: bunch of cool things into something also cool. You know,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: I love the Beastie Boys and they remix the shit
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: out of everything, so you know.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: But for there is an earnestness to the Shogun Assassin goons,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: which is comes from the the Lone Wolf and cub
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: side there is and it's there's the seventies noss that
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: this is kind of like there's a there's a real
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: like vulnerability to the aesthetic of the of the Shogun Assassin.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: It's a bunch of dudes like that. They just put
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: in outfits that they think is cool. They're adapting a
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: comic book that they like. They're standing out in the
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: woods and they're they're just doing something they think is
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: rad as opposed to like very modern, very manicured, carefully
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: like put together crazy eighty eight. So I think that's
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: I'm drafting off of what you're saying.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, on the other hand, narratively, it
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: is interesting that O Ranieshi, who has been killing since
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: she's eleven. Who I'm sorry for saying this, but like
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: popped her cherry with the pedophile, like her first kill.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: Was, Yeah, and you're gonna need to say that in
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: a different way. We're probably gonna want to have to
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: rephrase that she that.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Was it though her first kill, her first blood was
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: that was a pedophile when she was eleven years old.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: So she's been killing.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: You can't say pop cherry and then first blood. You
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: need to try it.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: The best time for you to have not said this
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: is now. And what I'm gonna need you to do
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: is go back in time.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: I'm throwing myself on this sword. I'm committing Harry Carey here.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: But logically, though, I think it is interesting that she,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: who had her childhood ripped from her and has been
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: killing since she was eleven years old, now surrounds herself
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: with shitty teenagers and like with the youth. And I
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: think that is interesting that her like protege, is seventeen
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: years old. Also, like we're introduced to her like stabbing
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: a creepy older guy like Go Go's introduction is a
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: creepy older guy is just like boring and hitting on
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: her at a bar and she just stabs him and
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: cuts out his guts for that, So narratively, narratively it
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: is interesting. So I think I think that the esthetics
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: and the function of the Crazy eighty eight serve the
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: plot line and serve the character better in kill Bill.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Also because kill Bill is a whole movie and not
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: cobbled together from a bunch of.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah that part right, it's hard to give points for
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: plot when Shogun Assassin has deliberately taken the plot out.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so this is actually tougher than I think
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be for me to make this call.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, are we ready to do our votes? Or do
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: I want to keep talking through it?
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I don't think. Yeah, I don't think I've got anything
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: else for this so overall goon quality, but I am
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: going to do what my wife does at a at
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: a restaurant and be like, you order first.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: I as much as I love the Showgun Assassin goons,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I think there is an iconicness to the Crazy eight eight,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: And I think there's like there's kind of like what
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: you what you just kind of laid out, Like the
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: childishness of the Crazy eighty eight gives them like thematic death.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I like the sudden light switch of these guys are
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: ice cold killers, and then they come up against any
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: opposition whatsoever, and it's oh, no, these are these are kids,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: these are these are teens messing around. So I'm gonna
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: say Crazy eighty eight.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: So I see the direction of where this is going,
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: and I feel like Crazy eighty eight when is inevitable
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: given what it is and given the coherence and pop
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: culture reverence for these two different movies, you know, kill
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: Bill is the one that sticks. And here's the thing
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: about Kill Bill Volume one. Forget about the Crazy eighty eight,
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: but just like Kill Bill Volume one, dozens of iconic scenes, right,
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: it's not one, dozens of iconic elements, and I feel
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: like a lot of them come from the adept skill
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: of Beatrix to just go crazy and killing people. I mean,
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: she's amazing. Yes, we can argue that the Crazy eighty
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: eight are just teens, but I think they're dispatched because
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: they are fighting her, and we should not forget that
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: that she is a powerhouse. Right, And I see the
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: inevitable direction, But it's going to be really hard for
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: me to say that Tarantino, who is the person remixing
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: all of this great stuff should continue going forward. When
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: I wish more people should see a movie like Lone
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: Wolf and Cub and Shogun Assassin. If that is, they're
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: on board. So I'm going to give my point to
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: Shogun Assassin with this validation Crazy eighty eight if they're
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: the really big number, Crazy eighty eight as well be
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: just one guy. It's just a number. It's a lot
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: of the same guy. And what I like about what
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: Shogun Assassin is bringing to the table is we get
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: a wider, more colorful variety of goons that die in
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: spectacular fashion. So I'm I'm giving it to Shogun Assassin
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: for that reason, all right.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: So that's why I let Adam go ahead of me,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: because I was like, I want to be the tiebreaker,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna say I am going to give the
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: tiebreaker here to kill Bill for almost exactly the opposite
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: reason of what Adam just said. Because I like the uniforms.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: I like the uniformity, like I like the the onslaught
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: of like one after another of just like a huge
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: wall of people. Now this is only overall goon quality.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: We're going to get into the deaths and like individual
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: acting and stuff later. But you know, I think vibes
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: carry a lot and in this and because the because
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: the goons in Shogun Assassin are so widespread and varied,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: because it's episodic and they actually came from like several
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: different sources. Because they're so widespread, I don't think we
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: get a good sense on like they're gun sa qua.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: Like ah now, the best time for you to have
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: not said that is now.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, are you Marty hard disagree? That was
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: a masterpiece.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: I have to give it the uniformity of the fact,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: the fact that kill Bill has this like uniform like
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: wave of soldiers but also has distinct heavies and distinct
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: members you can pick out through this. I have to
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: give this to kill Bill. But it was hard. It
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: was harder than I thought it was gonna be. So
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Round one goes to kill Bill two to one.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: Round one goes to kill Bill.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: Can I just say that that was round one and
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: there are two more rounds And I think you will
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: be doing this podcast until the end of time.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: You will be.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: Because I am looking at the tournament and we haven't
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: even done a tenth of what you've got to do.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: Round two is kill quality. How fun are the deaths
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: generally do they slump to the ground, explode, or fly backwards.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I take it back, and this is not going to
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: go faster.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: No, motherfucker, this is the main course. Okay, kill Bill.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna let I want to start with VFX. Let
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: me do VFX Kill Bill versus Showgun Assassin. Arm gets
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: chopped off in kill Bill's fire hose. Thin spray of
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: blood kind of immediately immediately shoots out, very watery, but
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: it feels like, you know, very high pressure Showgun Assassin.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: It tends to be more of more of a dribble
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: kind of is happening. It looks like like kind of
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: light red acrylic paint that is coming out. I think
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: the the the v effects of someone getting killed in
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Shogun Assassin has a lot more charm in it. It
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: really feels like kind of real classic Hollywood. You know,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: they're putting these these special effects together with you know
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: what they have lying around in the garage, and it
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: really has like a charm to it. In the effects
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: of someone getting killed, especially the special ones when someone's
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: head gets split in half or something like that, it
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: really has kind of a almost a Carpenter level of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: ways that they're that they're showing someone dying. That I
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: think is a lot better than the very like arm
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: go off blood spray.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: So from Kill Bill, I think it's gonna be so
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: hard for me on this because that you have to
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: separate this is not best action. Sequence is not like
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: best action. This is because this is about the deaths.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: So what that does is like the part of the
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: Crazy eighty eight fight where it shadows in front of
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: the blue wall. Looks cool as shit, great action sequence,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: but actually deducts from the goon deaths because like it's
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: just kind of a shadow falling over. My my nitpick
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: with and I have my attle note with this, My
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: nitpick with Kill Bill with the kill quality, especially for
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: the visual effects is Go Go and Johnny are heavies.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: For how much they are built up. I feel like
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: their actual deaths are a little underwhelming, except that Go
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Go does have Beatrix on the ropes like she's about
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: to win when she gets a table leg with nails
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: through her temple, and the visual effects on that, with
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: the blood like eyes raining down, it looks very very good.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: I you know, I like the big like squib or
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: like the fire hose effect of this, and what I
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: like about this, and this is why I wanted to
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: make sure we made the the animation like quality here.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: So early on in the animated thing, Oren Young Oren
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: shoots a guy in the knee and his like his
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: leg just blows right off and like an Inn Bruce.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: He also shoots this dude in the head and his
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: head just explodes or whatever. And I like that. Later on,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: when we're in the Crazy eighty eight fight, we're like, oh,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: that wasn't an anime thing, that's just how people. That's
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: just like what a paper cut looks like in this universe. Yeah,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: So I like that narrative connection through this so and
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: So's It's it's hard to say, like, how fun are
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: the desks? And I'm gonna feel like because it's just
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: such a well made action sequence. Every like every move
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: looks so cool. The bamboo like pole vault down bit
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: is so cool. Like it's it's hard to say this
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: looking just at the list, though, just at the list,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: I have to say, like, and this kind of comes
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: into the acting too, because what I really like about
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: this is how exaggerated the Crazy eight r When they die,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: they're doing backflips. They're dying and doing stunts while dying,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Like the best the best stunt work comes from somebody
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: who has already got his throat slit and falling off
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: the thing on the way down. So I think that's
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: fun as hell to watch. I think that is cool
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: to do. That makes this a little hard comparatively over
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: on the other side to Showgun Assassin Shogun Assassin. But
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: you have a lot more creativity here the first like
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: decapitation is assisted by the baby. Like, there's a lot
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: more creativity and a lot more fun, Like you thought
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: of inventive ways to kill this guy here in in
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: in Showgun, So this is this is difficult.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: The first thing is was anybody a little surprised rewatching
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: it at how lame Johnny Moe's.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: I was, for sure.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not that great, and you're pretty.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Identical to everything else for it.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: If I didn't know, I, if I didn't know that
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: that was Johnny mo if I had like kind of
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: just let it, let it lapse, I would have thought
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: it was just another kill. He gets his leg chopped
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: off on a balcony and then falls into some water
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: and presumably bleeds out or drowns.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: And this is another question of like, like a threat
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: threat to the protagonist. Go Go poses a threat to
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: our protagonist. Johnny poses about the same amount of threat
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: as literally any other one of the Crazy eighty eight.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: He is unconscious for a significant amount of the fight,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: and he's just kind of a consistent pain in the ass. Yeah.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: So here's here's how I'm gonna comp are these from
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: my angle. Instead of doing trying to compare every single
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: death and trying to decide which ones are best, there's
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: just too many to look at, and I think it's
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: really difficult, at least from my brain to reduce that
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: or to do the math there. So I'm gonna choose
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: my favorite from Shogun Assassin and my favorite from Kill
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: Bill and compare them on that. My favorite in Shogun
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: Assassin is actually the Master of Death who talks about
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: his neck mutating out, and he has that incredible line
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: about you know, when you get your next slit, it
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: sounds like the winter wind and he has always wanted
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: to hear that sound and he can't believe that it's
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: coming from his neck, and then he dies, and I
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: fucking love it when a goon tells a high coup
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: as he is bleeding out it's very good. I really
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: enjoyed that line is ridiculous. Yeah, but again this is
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: an issue. This is an issue with the like English
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: dub because that's not exactly how this goes. But I
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: really enjoy it a lot because it adds a kind
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: of texture to Shogun Assassin that makes it special. Right,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: The effect is not exactly the most special thing, but
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: it's how it's performed and how what happens that make
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: it really special. So that's my favorite in Shogun Assassin
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: and my favorite in kill Bill. Maybe this is a
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: stretch because we do not see how this leads to death,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: but when Oma Thurman plucks the dude's eye out from
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: the Crazy eighty eight, the entire movie shifts style, which
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: means that that death, that maiming was so hardcore that
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: the whole style of the presentation must change now. And
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: whether or not you agree with that, whether or not
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: it ticks for you, I love that choice. It's really
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: really solid, and I had kind of forgotten. I kept
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: I was watching kill Bill. It's been a long time
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: since I've seen it. I was watching the Crazy eighty
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: eight fight, and I kept thinking, wait, when when does
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: it go black and white? I don't remember when it
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: goes is it does eventually, and then the eyeball pluck
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: and that's just really eyeball pluck, and then it's black
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: and white.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: That's really also like it's also narratively, it's foreshadowing, right,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: because you know, plucking out eyeballs is a very big
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: part of volume two, right, So that that random guy,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: a random guy getting it plucked out when you know
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: the whole whole bloody affair. When you know the whole
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: bloody affair and you see that that plucking, you're like, ah,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: you do the lake, Leonardo DiCaprio pointing at the at
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: the TV meme. So I do think that is special.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: I have to say, for me, it is gonna come
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: down to like how my my favorite heavy death, and
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: so my favorite heavy death is again I agree with
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: Adam the clause with the nicked artery him ending with
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: him just going like this is bullshit.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: Man, I wanted to kill someone like this.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: Fuck you man.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: This would have been so sick if it wasn't happening.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: To me versus go go with the table leg I mean,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: I thought I thought Gogo would at least get like
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: her own spike head on there also, like you know,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: because this is this is the fun, Like how creative
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: did we get with this category? You do get a
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: lot more creativity in the kills of Shogun Assassin, mainly
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: with all the blades and the the mock five baby
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: carriage that has a bunch of bit of blades and
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: stuff inside of it where the baby you know what,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: no babies kill anybody and kill bill and the baby
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: has a kill count in Showgun Assassin of like double digits.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: I want you to get clear on your agism here, Marty. Marty,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: you have an issue. You've got an issue with the
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: crazy eighty eights being teens, and that's a detractor for you.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: And meanwhile you're over here saying these baby kills are
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: really what I'm here for. I'm just trying to get
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: it straight.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: Babies are way less annoying than teenagers. I feel like
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not going out a limb by saying that I
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: would rather hang out with a baby than a teenager.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: And you know what, I think, I think we can say,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'd rather be killed by a baby
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: than a teenager.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: I can walk away from a baby whenever I want.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: A teenager could follow me into the next room.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: Well, if the baby is in a carriage that is
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: like literally equipped with rocket launching swords, I don't think
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: you could walk away from a baby.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: Whenever you want, I do want to say. In the
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: later movies, he does put a machine gun in the
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: baby carriage.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: That is Actually, you, guys, rather I get killed by
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: a baby than a teenager, like as my friends, as
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: my friends, If I get killed by a teenager, you're like, oh,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: what a tragedy. I gotta like reconcile with this and
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: think about like the condition of life and everything with this.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: But if I get killed by a baby, you get
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: to go to my funeral and be like, Marty got
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: killed by a fucking baby. Come on, I.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: Do want to say. So the lady that gets killed
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: by a baby, she is part of the farmer assassins
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: where they're is they approach lone Wolf and Cub with
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: a bunch of root vegetables and then they're like, do
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: you want to buy these? Surprise, We're throwing them at
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: you and when you're disoriented, we're going to try to
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: stab you. And she the baby just hits a button
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: and then a knife comes out of the baby. Carriage
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: and stabs her in the stomach, and in that moment
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: she definitely was like, I hope everybody else gets killed too,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: because nobody can know that I got I got taken
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: out by the baby that you guys.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: Keep you're ridiculing the turnip attack, but one of those
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: fuckers definitely pierces the baby carriage like it it absolutely
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: stabs through solid wood. So you don't know how long
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: this plan has been in motion, and they've been trying
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: to turn these root vegetables into brute vegetables, which is
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: they're they're trying to use them to do well better,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: and you know it's not it's no life, laughing matter
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: when when this is what agriculture turns.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: To rhubarbed wire.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, my crazy eighty eight death that I think is
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: taken from me is the guy that gets stabbed through
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: the stomach with a sword and then doesn't die for
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: like a while, and then the bride just kind of
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: waves him around as like a human shield while he's.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: Just like ash yeah. Or the guy that she she
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: jumps on his shoulders, you know, so he's just kind
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: of dying and she's standing on his shoulders while killing
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: others that that's good too. I mean, to me crazy
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: eighty eight. I want to win kill quality because they
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: had better effects and a better awareness of what they
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: were referencing. They're both doing the fire hose of blood,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: the you know, the Sandreau Crusawa arterial spray thing, but
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: because it's Tarantino, he's really doing it over the top
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: with all of his gusto.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: And I need a ruling. I need a ruling from
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: you as commissioner. That's gonna determine my pick here. Earlier,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: you heard me say how much I really like the
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: stunts and the back flips and the like wild gesticulations
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: and things. Do those count under kill quality round two?
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Or do they count under acting round three?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: Acting?
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: That's acting round three?
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: You gotta divorce, Okay, then then I know my answer.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: So when we're talking about kill quality, we're talking about
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: like when the ways in which they die, the gor.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: The VFX, the the highlights.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: I think I think like I think like writing creativity,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: the creativity of the design of the kill. Yeah.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, can I hit you? Can I hit you with
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: a word that you can use for this gorreography?
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, So we're what we're doing is the choreography. The choreography, yes.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you. So when the the master of Death with
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: the club gets killed, they do a slow shot of
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: his head unfurling like a fuss fly trap while blood
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: spy sprays out of it. The commitment to effects on
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: this shit is so.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: I will say the gorier does not always necessarily mean better,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: but it's it is that spot where like gore and
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: creativity match because for me, like a creator, that's why
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: Violent Knight is on the list, because if you do
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: home alone murders like those are fun, your next is
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: on the list for that reason too. So but your
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: next is also quite gory. So I think I know
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: my vote.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: Dan, I I'm good to go, Adamy ready, I'm not dead, Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: I'm ready. Surprise for me, I'm giving it to Showgun Assassin,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: giving to Showgun Assassin. I think that ultimately has the
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: more creative ones.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: It made me laugh and enjoy and it's and the
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: effects are still you know, for being made in nineteen
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: seventy like on part, like the filmmaking is better and
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: kill Bill, but like I think the effects are still
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: interesting and they're on par and they're fun. So I'm
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: giving this one to Showgun.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: I think it's Showgun with a bullet for me. I
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: think like the kills and kill Bill are fantastic, but
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: Showgun is just so lovingly crafted. There's so much inventiveness
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: and and sort of ingenuity to it. Like there he
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: kills them in so many interesting and fun and creative ways.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmm. Yeah, I am joining the chorus. It's Shogun
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: Assassin for me for kill quality. And the reason it
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: is my pick is because that is the reason why
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: you watch the show Assassin is for the kill quality.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: And I think people would put this on and say, oh,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: this is some historical samurai epic, okay, cool, and then
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: they start seeing the completely batshit death sequences and you
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: come to understand what this thing is. That's that's what
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: makes it special. I love all the effects, I love
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: the production. I love the overwhelming amount of literal blood
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: and death in kill Bill. But yeah, it's it's got
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: to be Showgun Assassin for me.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: I all right, Showgun Assassin takes it with a complete knockout,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: all right, that brings us down to a tiebreaker death acting.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: This is how well do the goon sell it? What
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: heavies have the best standout death performances any that in
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: particular jump out at you, so, Marty, you already touched
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: on this with the Crazy eighty eight.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: How hard I mean, I think these guys act very
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: very I think guys act harder. I think that there's
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: a lot more acrobatics to it, which I think is fun.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's not just oh, I've been chopped with
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: a sword, and I just and part of that is
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: the style, right, part of that is the way that
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: the whole universe is made and the whole movie itself.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: But if anything like and maybe I'm just thinking, like
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: Showgun Assassin is so wacky and so out there that
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: those deaths feel like they should be more exaggerated. Those
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: deaths should feel like they should be For the most part,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: except for the Masters of Death, nobody gets a whole
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: lot other than and the Master Death just kind of
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: sell it because they get lines after they get killed.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: Your technique is incredible or whatever, and that's kind of
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: the best thing about them. So I'll just make this
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: round real fast. I think that the death acting here
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: in Kill Bill Wins. I don't think that has a
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: whole lot of like real standout death performances, and some
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: of it kind of bleeds into the visual effects. But
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: I'll say right now, my vote is going to kill
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: Bill on this round and let you guys argue over I.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: So.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I would say the Shogun assass and deaths
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: a lot of the time are like like pained grimace
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: and then remaining perfectly still. And I think that's kind
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: of the trade off with a lot of the previous
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: category because they are now a lot of special effects
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: are now happening around them. They are blood is spraying,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: some sort like a limb is removed. I don't think
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: they can really move around that much when this is
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: happening because they are now like a special effects vehicle,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: so they don't get to really like jump and fall
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: back as much as the Crazy eighty eight do. I
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: want Shogun Assassin to be to be given it, given it.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: It's all there. I'm like, I'm trying to come up
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: with examples of people in Shogun Assassin there.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: And I also I'm gonna make one more case here
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: for kill Bill. And we mentioned earlier how these are
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: just teams. The first guy that oh Ren send is
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: just like the sense one dude, go get him and
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: that's kind of like that dude doesn't realize that dude
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: is the guy who thinks he's gonna kill John Wick,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: and he does get a good it's a split second,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: but when that sword goes through him, he does get
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: a good facial rusion, and that actor for a brief
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: second to sell the like, oh shit, I've been stabbed
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: that like moment right before his death. I think that
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: one in particular stands out for me. If we're gonna
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: say stand out death performances, that's one that that nails
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: it for me.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: I will say Shogun Assassin. They do a really good
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: job of going from I think I'm gonna get them
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: off fuck like that. They they managed to do this
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: kind of heel turn, absolute confidence. I'm I'm crushing it.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: I'm going out there, I have him. Oh fuck yeah,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: the the the oh fuck moment they.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 3: All so I want to get something clear here as
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: round one, two, and three relate to one another. Round one,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: of course, we're talking about the goon quality in design
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: and you know, are they are they cool? Memorable characters
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 3: and you know, do they look cool and.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: That sort of thing.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: Right round two we're talking about kill quality in that
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: we're talking about special effects, how it goes down. You know,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: do their split heads split in half or our limbs
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: lopped off, and you know that kind of thing. Around three,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: when we're talking about death acting, we're talking about like
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: memorable lines of dialogue as it happens, or the struggle
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: or yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: The way I see it is it's the extras time
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: to shine. Okay, it's that actor really getting to like
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: have all the focus on them and getting to like
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: really do their their moment. And how like, on a
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: on a kind of a broader level, how are those
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: guys selling it? Are there any like really standout performances
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: are Our example that we came up with as a
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: really good case from our test run is the guy
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: who tries to jump behind Batman and Batman eighty nine
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: and falls through the floorboards. Okay, and the way that
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: that guy sells, I'm gonna get a fuck like he
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: he was our stand down right, So I think that's
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: our rosetta stone for how you approach this.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: Here's what I'm gonna do again, like it did in
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: the last round. I'm gonna choose my favorites and have
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: them compete head to head. And my favorite, as I've
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: previously noted death acting in Shogun Assassin, is you know
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: the winter wind right, that's good shit. The throat gets
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: slit and he's performing a poem. I just absolutely love that.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: It is memorable. I keep bringing it up. That is
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: death acting at its finest. Now I want to go
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 3: back to maybe a surprising well for kill Bill to
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: compete with it. If we are counting Boss Matsimoto, Boss Matsimoso.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 3: Boss Matsimoto's death is so good that it's hard for
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: me to watch because he grunts and groans and clenches
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: his teeth so fiercely that it shatters his teeth and
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: they spring out of his head. And that is both
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: a combination of the special effect in the animation because
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: it is a little extra flare, as well as the performance.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 3: The voice actor is selling the ship out of being
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: killed by an eleven year old O Rennie she And
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: it is my favorite death acting because that guy is
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: going to.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: I don't want to chal from you that he's the boss.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: Let's get that is we I know he said we
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: were counting. The animated portion, however, is Boss Matsume. But
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: you ever written here is Boss Matsume's Yakuza. Oh man,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: we didn't even talk about the yakuza guy who like
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: kicks the cigarette butt for no reason in the animation.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: That's an incredible man.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: Ever, like the the guy that haunts my nightmares during sleep.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Again as Boss in the name, does Boss montum A
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: count as a goon?
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: I just want to say, So, here's what I'm gonna say.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: You know, Boss, you know whatever. I think everyone can
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: agree that that animated portion is something that people do
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: not necessarily immediately think of, and therefore there's kind of
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: a grunt overlay status of well, this is not like
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: one of the big bads. It's not one of the
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: main storyline. Yeah, so I think, I think, but I
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 3: gotta give it points. I gotta give it points because
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: it is one of my favorite death sequences. So, whether
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: this is a or not, that's where it's going for me.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: For killed Bill, I.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: Think I would say it might be the best kill
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: in them.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: It's a really good cake. It is so bod And
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: if we're going here, I don't know if we are,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: oh Ren assassinates I don't know, a politician in the
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: back of his car and then we see the hole
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: through his head and the girls reacting to it. That's
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: an incredible one too.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: That's that could not be less of a grunt that
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: we don't know what he did. You know, that's an assassin.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: That's a that's the least grunt in either of the movies.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: So you know, for me, I I don't know. I
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: want to do a hat trick for Shogun Assassin, but
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 3: I cannot ignore the power of kill Bill. So I
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: do if I'm counting that animated sequence, and I'm going
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: to give it to k.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: So so so Dan, you can say whatever you want here, Well,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: that's to vote for kill Bill. So the round has
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: already chosen. I think.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: I I I thought I was gonna ye know, I can't.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: It's kill Bill. Kill Bill takes this one in a
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: unanimous yeah.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: I man, it's really hardy.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: This is hard.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: That's tough, but in a very in a pretty close match,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: it came down to one person's vote. That is, kill
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: Bill takes out Showgun assass.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: I don't like doing this. I don't feel good about it,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: but you know, this is how things work.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: I think I think, I think it's seeding, and I
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: think Shogun Assassin has the disadvantage of not being a
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: real movie.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's a highlight.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna say, as in terms of movies,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: I like Showgun Assassin better than Kill Bill, I would.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: Say, I mean, I like Showgun Assassin, but I would
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: say that if we let Kill Bill be taken out
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: by a fucking clip show like we yeah, yeah, that's
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: we would should be ashamed of ourselves. It's ridiculous that
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: I am going to give.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: I am going to give Showgun Assassins some credit. Like
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: I do think, especially for the time period, the localization
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: that they did on this is impressive. I think it's
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: edited together in a way that, while kind of very dopey,
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: is coherent and really fun, especially when you watch like
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: the two that the things they are working with are
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: so fucking disparate and far apart that the fact that
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: they took those and put them into a coherent narrative.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: As dumb as it is, I think that there was
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of artistry to the way they did that
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: that they deserve credit for. I think like localizing things
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: is an art for minutes a way, and this is
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: sort of a very primitive.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: Form of it also does have a cool signature, which
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: is changing the framing of the movie and making it
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: narrated by the child, which the original films are not
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: not at all. And I think for a viewer it
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: makes of someone intrigued to see where this goes. This
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: is what this little kid remembers. Where did the little
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: kid go after this? It makes you want another Shogun
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: assassin so you can see how things end up. So
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 3: you know, it's suc season, all right, So that is
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: a win for.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: Kill Bill, Kill Bill, torre Hanzo's right through.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: Our next matchup is Tombstone Versus Thirteen Assassins. Tombstone directed
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: by George P. Cosmatose in nineteen ninety three. A successful
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: law man's plan to retire anonymously in Tombstone, Arizona are
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: disrupted by the kind of outlaws he was famous for eliminating.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: Versus Thirteen Assassins, directed by the Great Kashe Mike in
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: twenty ten, a group of assassins come together for a
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: suicide mission to kill an evil lord. This is a
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: super weird matchup I am really excited about. I mean, yeah,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: it is diametrically opposed.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: This is the crown in George P. Cosmotosi's storied filmography. Guys,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: that's true.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 3: But I want to give you a similarity that maybe
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: was not obvious, but is absolutely there. So Tombstone features
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 3: a man trying to retire from being a cowboy, and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 3: retiring cowboys as a concept, okay, And so what he
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 3: is effectively doing is trying to lead himself and us
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 3: as a nation into a more lawful time and getting
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 3: rid of the last of the cowboys, right and cammon
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 3: that down thirteen assassins? Do we not spend a major
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: portion of the film talking about how we are in
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: a time of peace and samurai are no longer needed,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: and samurai, like the Cowboys and Tombstone, we are moving
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: into a lawful time. Of course, we have an insane
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: ruler who wants to return to war and violence, but
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: it is very much about a passing of an era
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 3: and the last vestiges of unlawful violence. And so I
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: think they do have something in common.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: It's about people trying to drag us back into a
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: more violent time. Yes, in one case being a lunatic
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: noble and the other being powers booth, powers booth, yes, who's.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: Drunk, Yes, high and opium. And I think that this
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: is you know, Westerns and Samurai movies have always kind
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: of worked hand in hand with each other. They walk
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: very similar paths, and Tombstone comes on the heels of Unforgiven. It's,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: you know, which is kind of the ultimate postmodern depiction
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: of the Western, or dissection of the Western. But then again,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: Westerns have been dissecting themselves for almost as long as
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: they've existed, right.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: The most famous example of like breaking this down and
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: we're moving into a lawful society is The Searchers, right,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: which came into nineteen sixty seven sixty nine, right, John Wayne,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: like walking away at the end of not standing in
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: the doorway and then not coming in at the end
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: of the Searchers. So I think it is an interesting
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: comparison there also right, that same alliance here. One of
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: my notes on Thirteen Assassins is there's a reason why
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: there are seven Samurai and thirteen assassins, right. Seven Samurai,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: of course being remade as the Magnificent Seven, one of
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: my favorite films of all time. I love Seven Samurai,
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: but Magnificent seven is actually the americanized version up there
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: is up there for me, I really like both of
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: these movies Adam you mentioned earlier, we did watch thirteen
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: a cent. Tried to watch it on TB. Watching it
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: with ads is hard. But even though tob is the
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: people's platform, it did mean that this was the first
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: little bit of this was it's hard to get through.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: It's hard to get through that like getting the band
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: together part of thirteen Assassins to get to the forty
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: five minute fight scene. So I have a few notes
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: on thirteen Assassins. I want to talk about. Tombstone is Tombstone.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: What I really like about these two matchups is for
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: both of these movies, both these matchups, we have one
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: that's like, we got to give a little preamble, we
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: gotta explain what its whole deal is. And the other
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: one is like, it's fucking Tombstone. It's kill Bill. If
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: you're listening to this podcast, you know what these movies are.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: But thirteen Assassins we got to give a little bit
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: of a discussion for. And I have a couple of
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: notes that I have about thirteen Assassins. Yes, as a whole.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: Like I said, there are a lot of guys in
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: thirteen Assassins. It is hard to keep all thirteen of
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: the assassins straight, Dan, you did not tell me I'd
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: never seen thirteen assassins before this. By the way, this
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: is my first watch. What you did not tell me
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: that one of the thirteen assassins is Ernest T. Bass?
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: You did not what they have fucking Ernest T. Bass
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: in this movie?
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, except, oh yeah, there's a dirty, crazy mountain
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: man wearing a vest who throws rocks through windows.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 3: Dan, Yes, who now? Who is Ernest is an.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: Andy Griffiths Show character who is exactly that? A crazed
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: mountain man, dirty wild mountain man who is just like
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: a force of nature, who is incessantly horny and comes
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: down from the woods sometimes looking for women or trouble
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: or whatever. And his signature move is hitting people with
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: rocks and throwing them through windows and such. Ernest T.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: Bass is in this fucking movie. Dude, How did you
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: not tell me this? And I know it's it's absolutely
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: imagine that Takeshimiki was like watching the Andy Griffiths Show
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: for inspiration, But there's so much similar in these performances
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: that I'm like, damn.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: This has to be there or or rather so, this
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: character is Bay is Bay. It's strongly hinted that he
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: is a mountain yokai basically a mountain spirit. He's supernatural.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: So maybe when the creators of The Andy Griffith Show
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: were devising the character of Ernest T. Bass, they were like,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: let's look to the well and their representation of chaotic
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: forest spirits. What is Ernest T Bass but a ki
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: we have like that?
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: Okay. He theorized many times that Ernest T. Bass has
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: like teleportation powers, that he has special abilities. Right, yes,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: he's escaped from locked jails with no sign of entry.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: Like before, I like, I like what you're putting together here.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: I think it needs to be said that in Thirteen
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: Assassins it is kind of like a modernization and you know, like, uh,
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: completely over the top action version of Seven Samurai. It's
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: about getting the team together and the work that they
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: do together, and how it's probably not going to serve
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: them well. But I want to just say that that
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: character who is a mountain man and he's like, yeah,
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not so interested in the Samurai. I just want
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: to get a good meal is effectively Kikuchio from Seven
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: Samurai in the original Curasawa movie, who is a guy
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: who's like, yeah, I'm not actually really into the Samurai thing.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: He was deliberately written as a goofball, a bit of
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: a goober. He brings some levity to the team, and
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: you can't believe that he stuck around and made it
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: as far as he has given everything as it should
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: be obvious. Thirteen Assassins is also a remake, not of
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: Seven Samurai, but there is a sixty eight nineteen six
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: version of Thirteen Assassins I haven't seen, so that's another
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: kind of element. Also, Tombstone is not Tombstone is kind
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: of a remake partially of Gunfight at the Okay Corral. Yeah, Okay,
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: partially that so it also is. And honestly, Dan, I
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: mean these movies have a lot in common. They both
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: involved like turning a town into a war zone at
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: one point right in the takeover of a town.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sir in the Builder for that.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot that these movies do have
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: in common. So I like that we put them together.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 3: Thirteen Assassins, by the way, probably Tikashi Mike's most chill movie.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, Mike is.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: Also he's been doing some anime adaptations and he's kind
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: of going thet the Robert Rodriguez pathway right now where
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 3: he's like doing kids films. So you know, it is
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 3: not true that this is his most chill movie, but
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: it is certainly a chilled out experience.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: If Takashi mik doesn't release a movie every six months.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: He'll die. He was cursed.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: He has like seizures.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, one thing a question I wanted to ask the
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: group here because one of my notes here for thirteen assassins,
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: it's like I said, it's hard to keep all thirteen
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: of these guys straight. And also four or five of
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: these of the thirteen assassins show up at once, and
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: it's kind of just like one boss is like, hello,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: I'm here to join you main character in this fight,
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: and here are four guys that work for me that
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: are also here, yeah, and here and there also in
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: this and you're like, well, these guys are dead obviously.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 3: So my question, it's kind of a meal deal situation.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: You know, what do we call the good guy equivalent
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: of a goon What do we call like the protagonists
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: cannon fodd or somebody who's just around to kind of
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: add to the drama here, a goon guy guy with
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: a gun.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm that's tough. That. I mean, they're like these
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: these are like heroes and subheroes.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing is what what we you just pointed
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 3: out about thirteen assassins is true. Some of the thirteen
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 3: join in and they're like, hey, by the way, these
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 3: are the guys who've been training, or these are the
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: guys that I'm going to bring along with me since
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: we will need some numbers. And that's a to me.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: This is a burger and fry situation, which is not
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: all of the thirteen are burgers, you know what I'm saying.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 3: Some of them are fries, and like they're still there
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 3: in helping and I'm glad they're there. They're just they
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 3: don't carry the weight. So I'm gonna I'm calling these
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: their fries. Okay, that's a fry.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: I feel like the kind of have are you ready
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: for me to give you my answer because I've had
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: time to think of that this they're red shirts? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: they okay, yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 3: I feel they're just there to die.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: I'm a little bit more person. Their whole thing though,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: is that they're like it's a bunch of like dumb kids,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: but they're all best friends, which I think is like.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: Or if you want to be postmodern about it, you
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: can go Galaxy Quest and these are Guy Fleegmans, right,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: they're all Sam rock Wells. Like they get a little
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: bit more personality.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: But sure, I honestly like that more.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: I like, yeah, right, so that there's there's a couple
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: of dudes in here that are that are that are
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: Guy Fleigman. But they also get moments, right, like, you know,
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: they get a moment here and there. I like the
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: two bros that are learning to blow stuff up together.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: So I do like that, but yeah, it is hard
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: to keep all of them. Not all thirteen get a
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: thing to do.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 3: I would say, you know, for what it's worth, there's
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 3: probably the historical context of these guys are basically apostles, right,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 3: They're not the main guy. They're with the main guy,
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 3: and I there's just too many apostles and thirteen assassins.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: It does make it a little top heavy, but it
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: is it's very fun to see what's saying.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: So on the other hand, Tombstone, it's pretty tombstone, man,
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: It's tombstone.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: Tombstone. The thing I like about it is, in the
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: context of watching this Tombstone is guys talking shit and
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: then something really sad happens, and then the guys talk
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: shit for a little bit more, and then an explosion
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: of violence, just a NonStop, like freight train of guys
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: swearing and killing each other and then dancing, and then
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: the movie's.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And this is what I meant Dan when
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: I said that this like exercise made me think about
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: this Tombstone, a movie I've seen a dozen times in
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: a different way because I was suddenly paying more attention
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: to different performances, and I noticed, Yeah, as I'm like
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: scanning through the DVD trying to get to the goon parts,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, the narrative structure of Tombstone is very weird.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: You've got like the first you get the first opening
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: scene is the wedding shootout that introduces the bad guys
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: to cowboys, right, and then I'm kind of going through here.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: I'm like, nobody dies for a very long time, really
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: long time. I was like, I like, have a fat
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: billy Bob Thornton. Its a goon. No, he doesn't die.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: He just gets slapped around a little bit and made
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: it look like a bitch. And then and then finally
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: the Marshall dies, and then most of that first hour
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: is not most of it, but a good chunk of
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: that is Kurt Russell just cheating on his wife for
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: Well, Kurt Russell at one point is like, oh, you
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: want to be like me. I've killed one man and
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: it haunts me forever. And it's like, oh, yeah, you
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: didn't really like hill guys when you were the mega badass.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: Your whole thing was like what he does in the
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: rest of Curly Bill, which is just back dudes down.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: You just kind of like just big dogging a bunch
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: of like drunk weirdos out in the middle of it.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 3: Also be it comes a very conflicted morality play then,
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 3: because this whole thing is like, oh, when I was
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 3: the big haunch, you, I wasn't killing guys. I was
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 3: I was making sure that peace was around, and you
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 3: should never kill guys except for when you got to
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: kill all the god the latter half.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: Like it kicks off right about halfway through the movie,
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: we get the showdown at the Okay Corral. Right, that's
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: the inciting incident, that's what everything is named for. And
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: then the rest of the movie shows the aftermath of that,
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: so there's your like breaking point there, and then you
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: get a little bit more stuff. And I really like
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: the parts after the showdown of the Okay Corral where
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: people like protesting Wyatt earp essentially, I like that. And
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: then you get a what I think is why it's
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: on this list, the bottom twenty five minutes of just
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: random goon murder like throughout the and it is it's
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: a gang war like. It becomes a gang war movie
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: towards the end here mm hmm.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: It's it's kind of the magic trick of it, is it.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: You'll go in and you'll be like, yes, that's right,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: lawn order, uh, maintaining the piece due process. And then
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: for the last twenty five minutes you're like extruc judicial killings,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: ex struck judicial killings, vigilante justice done by police figures.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: Fuck yes, fuck yeah, you're just a frosty at the mouth.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: Big except it is, but it isn't because the bad
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: guys are also wearing badges too, because there's like a
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: jurisdic like a huge chunk of the movie is jurisdictional
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: arguments like versus like the sheriff of the town versus
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: the US marshals right, who gets to do what and
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: who's willing to do what?
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: Which I think a big, a big part of this
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: is that all of these were real guys, like if
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: you I like read through the wikipedias and all of
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: this more or less happened. But everybody was so drunk
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: and petty and stupid that they were doing shit like
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: deputizing the criminals and switching sides ran because they were
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: pissed off at somebody. And so the movie is like, well,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: all right, I guess he switched teams.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: I haven't. Michael Rooker goes from being a goon to
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: a fleegman, Like Michael Rooker switches Alliance is along with
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: two other guys.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one of my favorite sequences, you know that scene
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 3: when he's you know, they're they're trying to understand one another,
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 3: and he's like, yeah, no, no, I can't follow him.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 3: After that, you know, it's it's very cool to see that.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 3: You don't see that when a goon, you know, gets
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 3: the opportunity.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: And a nice thing about that is you see that
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: from the very beginning, like Michael Rooker is in the
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: church shootout at the very beginning. The first scene you
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: see that this guy, he doesn't say anything but Rooker's face,
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: and because Michael Rook is a great actor, like you
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: see him go, I don't that's not right. I don't
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: know about that. I think it's right after they killed
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: the priest. He's like he's already from the get go
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: troubled about what's going on. It sort of sets that up.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: Because this this group of goons, the cowboys, which man,
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: how bummed were they about that? They they're What they
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: are is very ill defined, both in terms of this
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: movie and in history, because they were kind of just ranchers,
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: just dudes that were doing like legitimate business, but also
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: they were cattle rustlers, and also they were drunk psychopaths
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: waving around guns, and so there would be dudes like
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: Michael Rooker would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I just
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: started hanging out like you guys seemed cool, and now
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: we're mowing down a wedding. This is weird. It does
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: kind of capture the messiness of what shit.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: Like this, and there's so many guys, Like part of
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: the power of Tombstone is just naming guys.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I really tried my best to catalog the guys,
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: and I went sort of insane because there's so many guys.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: Let's let's go into round one. Let's get this thing,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: let's get this thing fired up. So initial goon quality,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: we have the Cowboys slash red sashes up against the
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: Akashi henchmen and army. So I think we've already kind
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: of introduced the Cowboys and red sashes sort of. Did
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: anybody else get Gremlins vibes from these dudes?
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 3: Hmmm, that's an interesting comp This is one of the
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 3: first goons like groups of goons where I'm like, I
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: can see why you'd want to be in this party,
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 3: Like I understand wanting to be in the Cowboys.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: These guys look cool as shit, right, everybody looks. But
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: it's also funny that they look simultaneously cool, but also
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: everyone looks shit like shit because they're in the desert
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: and they haven't showered and so their clothes look awesome,
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: but they look like absolute ass. But they're having parties, dude,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: They're drinking, they're having a good time. They go to
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: the theater together like buds, like their art appreciators. Everyone's
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: having fun. This is like, I'm like, I get it.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: I get why you would want to be one of
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: the Red Sash cowboys and hang out with Johnny Ringo
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: and hang out with Curly Bill. I understand why this
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: would be. So these guys look like they are having fun,
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: like the time of their life.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: But I think the thing is like like hanging out
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: with any group of dudes you get to hang out with,
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: like like Thomas Hayden Church, Oh he's so fucking cool.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: You get to hang out with Johnny Ringo, he's sick
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: as hell. Oh man, it's so fun to hang out
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: with Curly Bill. Oh God, Ike.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: Stephen langs you guys know Stephen Lang's Ike Clanton.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: You guys told me that that Stephen Lang wasn't gonna show.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: Dude think too much about to Stephen Lang's performance before,
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: But because of this, I was like, I'm gonna really
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: watch Stephen Lang as Ike Clanton. And that dude is
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: like has like such essential like goon quality to him,
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: Like he does the like repeating the bully thing. Like
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: our introduction to Ike Clanton is he comes in, uh
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: to push around whyatt IRBs poker game or card game
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: and he's like, yay, law man, law don't serve around here.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: And then Curly Bill goes, yeah, that's he's correct. We
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: don't really like the lawman around here, and I goes, yeah,
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: you heard the man. We don't like the law like.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: He's just such like a little like like a schoolyard bully, toady, toady.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: He's not even a god. He is a toady and
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: he lives by the way he lives because he's a coward.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: To the end. Yeah, like three times he's like, I
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: don't want to die anymore.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'm in the bag for Stephen Land,
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 3: So I am. You know, I'm I'm I'm fully on
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 3: board and is one of the reasons why I love
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 3: the movie Tombstone, because you have so many oh that guy,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 3: you know, whenever you're watching this movie. But I think
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 3: for what it's worth just to kind of get into
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 3: the meat and potatoes of this discussion. Unfortunately Fellas, there's
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 3: no contest here when it comes to goon quality and
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 3: Tombstone versus the Akashi Henchman. One of the things that
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: I want to discuss about Thirteen Assassins and what makes
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 3: it unique watching it in the year twenty twenty six
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 3: is I don't know about you guys. But I've seen
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 3: a lot of parallels about people just protecting who they serve,
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 3: just because even if who they serve is a vile
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 3: maniac who's clearly doing the wrong thing all the time.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: And then you have the little bit of interiority in
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 3: the goon saying like, ah, Jesus Christ, I don't want
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: to do this, but you know, my role is to
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 3: serve this guy. And so I was certainly getting a
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 3: little bit of this deja vu feeling of, you know,
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 3: a post Trump viewing of thirteen henchmen or thirteen assassins.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 3: But you know, as far as the quality of the
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 3: hnchman goes, it is unfortunately no contest. Of course, it
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 3: belongs to Tombstone.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: I will I will second that defense o.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: The heavy in the Heavy in thirteen Assassins. You don't
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: have him written nowt But there's a guy named Hanbei,
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: and Hanbei is kind of the bodyguard of the lord
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: that they are supposed to assassinate. Right He's kind of
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: the bodyguard. He's kind of the guy who's in charge
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: of keeping that guy alive. And he has one kind
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: of monologue right before he fights our main character and
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: they've been buds forever. They trained at the same dojo.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: And his entire thing is that I am a samurai.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: I serve my lord. This is what I and he knows,
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: he knows how fucked up it is. You see him
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: look at this guy a couple of times ago. Are
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: you kidding me? But he's like, this is my role,
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: this is it. So I will say this is going
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: to tombstone. But I am giving an honorable mention to
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: thirteen assassins for Hanbey because Hanbe's thing is I am
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: the hench maniest henchman. My entire existence is to goon.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: That is my role in the movie. That is what
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: I do. That I also have read the script and
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: I know that this is what I do.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 3: So yeah, sure it was.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: I was unsure on if HANBEI qualified as goon or villain,
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: But just for the sake of giving thirteen assassins something
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: we'll give because Hanbe, You're true. HANBEI does have an
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: interiority and a philosophy, and that philosophy is I'm a goon.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: I like, sure, I do not get to have an
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: internal life. The Akashi henchman they are, They are much
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: more anonymous. They are much more like kind of vacant,
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: which I feel like is sort of by design. The
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: anemimity of these dudes is sort of the point. A
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: thing I will say I do also like about them
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: is is it is something that is pointed out during
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: sort of the training montage of the move, which is
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: he says, like, none of us have ever been in
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: a real fight. We it is an age of peace.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: Most of these people have only ever been in a
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: practice tool. Nobody is going into practical combat. And it
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: is very like, it's it's very fun to just have
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: a bunch of like jackasses just going like ah like,
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: just kind of waving a sword impotently.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And you know what in something that you
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 3: said earlier, Dan, and I think there's something to this,
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 3: which is when we're talking about the goon quality. Yes,
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 3: there is the variety of it all and thinking about
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 3: the characters that we can name, what they look like,
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 3: how they behave, and that is fun. But it is
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 3: undeniable that in Thirteen Assassins, the goons are kind of
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: the er goon. They live to serve. That's it. It
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 3: is the most pure expression of what we're talking about,
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 3: and they throw themselves to die and there's that. It
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 3: is a very pure principled if you went will this
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: is the role that they serve and they will fulfill
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: the role and that's it. And to have a personality
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 3: would be stepping out from what they're here.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: Dan, This is gonna be the hardest part is to
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: figure out, like with Tombstone, the distinction between characters and
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: goons because.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 3: Like a lot of goons in time. Yeah, I would
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 3: say Stone are.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: Killed during the montage. That's where we get the most
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: like anonymous dudes. Yeah, but like the the quote unquote heavies,
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: those are all guys with personalities and names and so
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: and so here's here's where I was gonna say we
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: need to fight over Johnny Ringo. My argument he is
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: so Johnny Ringo is very interesting to me, and I
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: I am a little bit more flexible on you know,
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: how much personality a goon can have, because in my opinion,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: right Johnny Ringo does not have that much motivation. His
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: only thing is I like to shoot stuff and I
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: hate Wyatre and I work for Curly Bill. Like that
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: is the majority of his He looks cool, he sounds cool,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: and I would say he's very interesting in that he
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: is definitely like a heavy. He's not the bas until
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: he becomes the boss because Curly betilled. But even when
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: he becomes the boss, nothing really changes about him. And
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: there's another guy. And more importantly, he is not killed
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: by by Wyatt Earp. He's not killed by Kurt Russell.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: He's killed by the supporting character, the sidekick, Doc Hollid,
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: So he's like, you know, at best, he's sidekick material.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: So he's sidekick who gets a sudden promotion. And then
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: the thing is, even after he's killed, the movie isn't over.
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: There's still more killing to do, as though, you know,
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: the person who really gets the final moment is fucking
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: Ike Clanton, who gives up, who says, you know, throws
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: his sash away and it's like I'm done, I'm done.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: That's the signifier that the battle is over. So I
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: think that, I mean, it's borderline and I'm I know,
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: I'm the most flexible and lax on this. I do
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: think Ringo counts as a goon, as a heavy until
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: the end, because he is you know, nothing really changes
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: about him when he's the boss.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm, Okay, here's here's I think. I think we
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: would say he goes from being a goon to a
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: heavy to the primary antag Is he more a heavy
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: than a primary antagonist? Where do we say that? Is he?
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: I would say he's a heavy for more of the
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: movie because really he doesn't get internal motivation until it
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: is explained at the end of the movie, where there's like, Okay,
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: Johnny Ringo is the primary antagonist. Now Val Kilmer explain
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: what his deal is. Oh, he wants revenge on the
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: world for being born. Okay, cool, Well he's a he's
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: a fucking character. Now, he was just kind of the I'd.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: Say that go go and Johnny Toe also like go
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: Go also wants revenge on the world for being born, right.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 3: Like, that's not much of a motivation. I mean, I
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 3: do think it's interesting. I think I think he spends
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 3: more of the movie being a goon than not. So therefore,
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: I would say, you know, as far as the quantity
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 3: of screen time goes, he's a goon. To me, it
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 3: just so happens that he has a really big personality.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 3: And this is this is the thing that we need
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: to acknowledge, which is between Tombstone and Thirteen Assassins. Tombstone
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 3: is very lean on characters and bodies and who is
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 3: actually in the movie and therefore can be dispatched, whereas
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: thirteen Assassins is just throwing bodies at our main hearing.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: So, now, though I think we've decided Johnny Ringo counts
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: as a goon, how fucking cool is Johnny Ringo?
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: Guys, Johnny Ringo is one of the coolest dudes ever
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: put to film.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: Al fucking a dude. The guy rocks.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 3: I Johnny Ringo. Everything about Tombstone rules when you really
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 3: take a step back and realize how badly all of
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 3: us wanted to be the guy who has to be
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 3: you know, like what's going on with this movie? Where
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 3: you look at that guy and you're like, that's my
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 3: f fucking guy. And then you look at a guy
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 3: like Johnny Ringo and you're like, I love this guy.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 3: He is such a consistent little bitch. I hate him
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 3: so bad, I love him so much. And it's like
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 3: all of the aspirational aspects of this film are totally fucked.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 6: The archetypal aspects of this movie are so fucked. If anything,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 6: the movie plays Paxton right, Who's like Paxton should be
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 6: the moral fiber of the movie, right, Like, his whole
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 6: thing is like I love my brothers, and I love
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 6: my wife and I love God, and the movie is like,
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 6: fuck this bitch.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 3: Also, consider the way that both Paxton and my boy
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 3: with the belly handle mustache, you know, yeah, Sam Elliott,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 3: you know, consider the way that they get dealt with
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 3: in the movie. And of course Sam Elliott survives thankfully,
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 3: but like Sam Elliott gets attacked off screen and just
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 3: comes in and he's like, ash, shit, I'm down. And
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 3: also Paxton is shut well, he's just playing pool.
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: Nobody and it's just so unsare the assassination of Bill
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: Paxson by the coward some guy in the other.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 3: Room, somebody you would be mad at if you were
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 3: playing online against. You're like, what the fuckuck camp, I
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 3: wasn't even playing. Yeah, it's it's just kind of cruel
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 3: the way that they're dealt with.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 4: And then.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 3: Anyway, I think that what that serves to say is
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 3: dealing with these movies is interesting because both of them
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: are really atypical. And when I saw Tombstone in the
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 3: tournament at all, I immediately thought, I don't think this
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 3: is a goon movie. And rewatching the movie. I'm definitely
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 3: watching with a new lens, and like you said, Marty,
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 3: I'm analyzing maybe over indexing the performance of the bad guys,
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 3: so to speak. But I think they are not your
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 3: standard goon I don't think to.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: Return to thirteen Assassin's goons though, the the Akashi Army.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: I do like that after a certain point, they sort
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: of cease to be individual people and are just this
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: like like just ocean of identical guy. They all have
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: like these identical uniforms, these identical hats that all kind
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 2: of like obscure their vision, and they just kind of
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: almost feel just like like just water, just this absolute
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: and that is just getting like buzz sawed through. And
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: I like sort of the way they blend together into
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: what almost feels like a mass, just one singular entity.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 3: Anakin Skywalker voice. Now, that's what I call it gooning.
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: Do you want to make this case though, for the
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: red sashes, for the cowboys, because one thing I find
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: interesting about Tombstone is when they're introduced, you're like, Okay,
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: here's Curly Bill and here's his gang, and it's like
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: twelve guys, Okay, we know how many like cowboys? There
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: kind of are okay, and then they do the shootout
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: at the OK Corral, which really only involves like six
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: or seven cowboys, right, and you're like, all right, there's
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: a limited amount. And then during the like big retribution montage,
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: we find out I guess that like, oh, how many
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: of these guys are there. They're like they're like widespread,
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: They're like riding all over the territory. Yeah, all like
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: different chapters, different branches, in different towns. So then all,
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: so that's where we get goon points. Is that, like
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: there's montages of this nameless, faceless dudes just getting mowed down,
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: and we have to like save some stuff for round
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: two for the kill quality, because like with these extras,
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: basically then we get some real interesting like moments and stuff.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: So it's a good question of just like how many
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: they how big is their army? Yeah, you know, and
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: how widespread is there. I think we can vote, you know,
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: round one.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I know where this is gonna go,
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: And so I'm just gonna I'm gonna do it sort
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: of a preemptively dissenting vote for thirteen assassins. I think
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: I love Adam's statement of the urgoon just so like
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: kind of fundamental. I think there's like someone had to
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 2: do it, Someone had to someone had to do Yeah,
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: I think I love, I love.
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you for falling on the sword. Thank you for
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: falling on the sword. Adam. I'll set you up for
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: it so that you can throw the you throw the
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: around whoever you want, because I'm voting Tombstone.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I gotta say, obviously, I came out
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 3: swinging and say, of course there's no contest. It goes
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: to Tombstone. But then I almost convinced myself a little
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 3: bit about what thirteen Assassins is doing. But these are
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 3: so different from one another that being said, I would
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 3: not be able to carry my head upright with pride
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 3: it by saying, you know, Tombstone loses to thirteen Assassins
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 3: because the goon quality as it goes. I would say
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 3: that if there's an issue here, it's that Tombstone almost
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 3: has too much gooon quality. It's like they're almost too good.
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 3: They're so good, they're almost too good. You could make
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 3: the case that this is disqualified, that there's too much
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 3: happening with these guys, but they're really good, you know what.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: I'm sticking with my vote, but this kind of you.
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: I spent an hour clicking through Wikipedia profiles of the
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: various members of these goons. I think this is the
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 2: only thing on the bracket you can do this with
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: because all of these guys were such bags of shit,
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 2: and we're such bags of shit for so long, and
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 2: so you can just be like, and then he threw
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 2: a skillet at his mother in law's head, and then
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: he got into a property dispute and stole someone's dog,
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: And you can just spend so long and then one
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: will be like, yeah, he was a beloved father of three,
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: and then he shot him in the head. Like there's
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: such richness and depth in these motherfuckers. This one, I
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: think is gonna be much more competitive.
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 3: Round two Gloria choreography.
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a good.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 2: Way, A good place to start from the last time
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: favorite kills up top.
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: I'll start. I'll start absolutely the guy who is killed
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: in the opium den who accidentally mistakes Wyatt IRB's pistol
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: for an opium pipe. Hundred percent that guy.
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's almost shocking that that scene is
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 3: even in the movie, because when you consider what happened
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 3: immediately off screen, it's just too much to bear. But yeah,
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 3: that's pretty like Wyatt Earp spent this whole time saying,
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 3: I don't really kill guys. My guy, you put a
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 3: gun in his mouth and you fired the gun.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: It is fucking looney Tunes kill. It is like bugs
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 2: Bunny goes to smoke a pipe and then Yosemite Sam
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 2: is holding a gun.
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: It almost makes me feel bad for the guy. Yeah,
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: it's I agree, he's just trying to get you know,
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: to reference a much worse movie that kills a lot
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: of goons, The Boondock Saints. Right, there's a scene in
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: The Boondock Saints. I think it's like the first time
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: that they kill a guy where they go into a
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: sex shop and they kill like in the Jerk Boost
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: and they kill the drug dealer. They're there now they
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: just kill yeah, and then they just killed two other
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: guys who are like they're just jerking it. I think
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: they say they have like a throwaway line that's just like,
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: oh look at these two these dudes gumbags are also
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: dealers or whatever. But then they just kill two guys
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: who are just in booths doing nothing, like just just gooning.
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: They kill two goon for gooning, so which I think.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: He does say like right before this, he's like, if
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: a guy is wearing a red sash, I'm going to
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: kill them, and I think they're like, I mean if
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: we're doing crimes, and he's like, no, literally at all.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 2: Like a guy is in bed with a sex worker
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: and he's a still technically has the sash on. So
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 2: Kurt Russell just bursts in.
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: It's like boom boom, boom, boom boom. I'm I'm surprised
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: that's not how Billy Zane dies in this. He's like,
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: I was just trying a new fashion to statement.
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, bad time to experiment with your personal fashion. Really
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 3: not a great tip be doing that now. On the
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 3: other side, what's interesting about thirteen assassins when we were
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 3: getting into the you know, the gooriography and the actual
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 3: death sequences is I don't think it's really possible to
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 3: pinpoint any one individual death that is really wowing me. However,
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 3: the entire ingenuity of how it all happens, basically the
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 3: lead up to getting to the death sequence is so
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 3: over the top and so creative, and it's one entire
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 3: town being turned into a home alone, and it's impossible
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 3: not to give my favorite part, not to a specific death,
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 3: but blaming. You know, like they set the cows on fire,
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 3: the cows chase the guys, the guys get trapped, and
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 3: then they're in this that's it comes good.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 1: Nowhere to like everything else, you can see where it
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: was built up right, everything else, you can see the
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: work that they're doing and everything, but the flaming cows
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: just come right out of left field.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 3: And but it's so good. It is referenced in the
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 3: game Sekiro that one of the bosses that you fight
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 3: in that game is a flaming cow, and it's a
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 3: really difficult boss. And I only know it to come
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 3: from Thirteen Assassins, so it has definitely made its print.
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 3: I just think it's, you know, basically all of this
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 3: movie is leading to the home alone devising of the
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 3: Death Village, and I find that undeniable.
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 3: As far as the special effects go, yes, I mean.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is such an abrupt tonal shift with the
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: flaming cows because it is a different movie up until
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 2: that point.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: It is very the eyepluck.
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's the eyepluck, but it's a very the eye pluck.
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: I would say somber. It's fun, but it's also like
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: very slow, man, very slow, and then the flaming cows happen,
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 2: and then it's a whole ass different movie and it's like,
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: guess what, this movie was actually fun, Like we're gonna
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: get nuts up in here.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know we we we can't look past
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 3: truly one of the coolest sequences in the film, which
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 3: is one of our thirteen assassins who has strategically placed
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 3: swords all over the battlefield and is just picking those
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 3: motherfuckers up and killing people. And it's not the goon death,
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 3: but it's the orchestration to get to that. That is
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 3: why thirteen Assassins is cool. And I will say that
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 3: I am. I'm comparing these things, which is all of
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 3: the cool action sequence in the like forty minute action
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 3: sequence in Thirteen Assassins is cooler to me than the
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 3: true Goon deaths that take place in Tombstone, which take
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 3: place in a montage and it's almost not even part
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 3: of the movie. It's just like cleaning up, you know.
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 3: It's they're very little diligence due diligence for the Goon deaths.
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 3: I think in tombstone. So I want to award the
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 3: ingenuity of thirteen.
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: So this is where I have to, like, I think
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: we have to go on vibes here because I have
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: a note here in my thing about thirteen assassins, because
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: how cool that sequence is where they've just got swords
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: hidden everywhere and they're just finding new ways to pop
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: them out. But I have a little note hehre. I'm like,
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: but it's not best action sequence, it's best goon deaths.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: And the goon deaths are pretty much this guys getting
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: and fallen over. So I don't know. But then at
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: the same time, like I don't know, I like it
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 1: when an action sequence leads to some guys. So this
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: is the fuzziest of session.
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, let me, I think I can. So we have
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: three phases of goon deaths in in thirteen Assassins. You
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: have the initial kind of introduction where they are essentially
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: dying through traps, through big wall, through flaming crowd, through
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: exploding bridge, through getting sent to secure the interior in
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: a building which then explodes, and then you have the uh,
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 2: that's one of my favorites, securing the interior. I love
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: that Hanbe is like secure the interior, and they're like what,
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: and he's like, secure the interior, and then they have
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: to be told like three times and then it immediately blows.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: Up because they don't know what that means.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 3: I like it, especially because someone is calling for their
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 3: emperor or for the the the their master and be like, hey,
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 3: come on in here, and Honbei is like, what the
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 3: fuck are you doing? Secure the interior? You know, like
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 3: he's the only one who's.
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 4: Happening.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: The other never been in a fight or a war
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: or anything before. They don't know what secure the interior means.
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 3: They've also never been in death town and now they're
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 3: here for their first vision to jump.
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 2: Into like direct combat, which is it kind of I
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 2: like that it sort of starts out very like dignified
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: and uh and like like check out my marshall prowess.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 2: We're battling, and then just progressively get sloppier and sloppier.
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: And I think the point where the gun deaths become
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 2: special is towards the tail end, when everything is chaos.
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: All these dudes are fucking exhausted, They're all confused and
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 2: disoriented and just like kind of it's just a fucking mess.
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: I think that's when it has the most personality, is
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 2: when these dudes are It's it's kind of it's kind
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: of a reverse saving Private Ryan Beach sequence. Yes, yeah,
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: where you reach the shell shocked period where they're just like,
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 2: I don't fucking know anymore. I guess I'll go try
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: to kill this guy. I'm on fire now, fuck.
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 4: Like I might.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: Again, there's a really well again not for the Goon death,
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: but there's a really well shot sequence that we get
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: through the eyes of one of our guy Fleegman's as
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: he's watching his master fight a dude as he's dying
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: and he's pinned against a well, and we go this
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: is this is where Meki gets to Miki and he goes,
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: you know, from a point of view, very trippy, surrealistic
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: filming through this gentleman's point of view, where we get
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: like one guy who's kind of like giggling and cackling
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 1: as they fight. I'm like, that guy might count as
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: a heavy Maybe I don't know. And again it blurs
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: that line between what is the good goon death? I
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: will say this too. Adam mentioned earlier that this is
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: the more chill, meeky film. Meeki loves blood and mud,
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 1: you know, and there's a lot more mud than blood
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: in this movie.
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, this is surprisingly bloodless I would expect.
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: I was expecting it to be like fire hoses, like
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: kill Bill. I was expecting a lot of like spray stuff,
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: And that's not the kind of movie that he was
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: making this time. I think, Dan, you were actually kind
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 1: of close with Saving Private Ryan. I think that that
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 1: is in fact, probably the kind of movie to Kashi
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: Miki was trying to make. But I think I think
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: you are right. I think that is a good observation.
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: That is kind of the thing that they were going
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: for here. So this is a lot more grounded of
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 1: a movie than like you're than Meeki likes to make,
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: which flaming flaming cows. Yeah, I mean it is still
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: a Meki film. You're relatively grounded. It is about as
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: historically grounded as Tombstone is. Let's go ahead and say
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: that although Dan, you have a note here that the
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: guy you during that montage is a guy in bed
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: with a sex worker, and you get no, you are incorrect.
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: That guy is in bed with like three sex works.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: That guy, that guy dies like mid foursome. Good for him.
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 2: Favorite rock man like those they're the only people in
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: the wild West having a good time. I can see
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 2: be like, all right, I gotta do some really fucked
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 2: up shit, but I get to hang out with the
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 2: fucking cowboys, Like it's kind of like being a teenager.
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 2: Be Like, I get to hang out with the with
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: these like really fun, cool guys. I do have to
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: do some property damage.
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 1: But they're really they're a really cool hang.
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 2: I will also say the guys who are fighting the
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: are crazed mountain man Kiga. They are really getting the
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: most demeaning deaths of all of them, Like everybody else
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 2: is getting like slashed with katanas and exploded, and they
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 2: just cut over to the guys fighting him, who are
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 2: just being beaten to death with a big old stick
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 2: that he found. Like there is one point where he
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 2: is just basically whack a moling six guys with just
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: a fucking tree branch, and he like they are getting
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: just demeaning deaths from him because the entire time it
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: is happening, he is yelling.
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 1: You guys, suck.
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: This whole thing you're doing is stupid. You're all samurai.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: Samurai are dumb, and then hits you with a fucking rock.
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 2: He also's got like I don't even like the side
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: that I'm on. I hate these guys too.
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 3: He's a little bit of a nihilist. He's doing it
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 3: purely because he was previously in Horny Dale. Uh and uh,
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 3: you know, he's just like he wants a meal, he
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 3: wants to eat a rabbit, and he wants to go
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 3: get with his honey, and that's it. All the other stuff,
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 3: you like, he couldn't be bothered.
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: And you know in any fictitional media ever, maybe I.
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: Think as is not broke. That means you got to
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: give it to Ernest T because they're the same dude,
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: the same dude, And we have a lot of problems
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: with Ernest T. But yeah, affect, but Ernest Ernest T
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: would also be like, yall want me to bring this
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 1: rabbit along?
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: All right? We were ready for our were ready for
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: our votes.
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: I think we're ready.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 2: I'm giving it to thirteen. I think you have the
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: period where they're very inventive, cow kills, giant thorn walls.
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: You have the sort of the period where they kind
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: of all blend together into just this kind of cacophony
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: of like limbs and blades and shit, and then you
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 2: just have this period of like utter desolation when it's
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 2: just people are wandering around. It's not even an action
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: scene anymore. It's just aimless guys hacking away at each other.
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's like it's so layered, and it kind
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: of is telling a story in a way that like
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 2: the action. The kills, aside from Opium Kill, which is
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: a masterpiece, a lot of the kills in Tombstone feel
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: a little perfunctory. Yeah that's mine, thirteen.
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go next, and say
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 3: I'm also giving it to thirteen Assassins. And I think
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 3: these are kind of on technicality here, because I think
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 3: what thirteen Assassins is doing is setting up, setting up,
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 3: setting up like Rubes Goldberg, like a Rube Goldberg device,
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 3: of all of the death they're going to serve up
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 3: to the goons. And the comparison, of course is as
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 3: I've mentioned previously, in Tombstone, most of the goons are
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 3: killed in a montage, which feels tacked on, like it
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 3: just happens. We was just like yeah, and then we
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 3: did that. And the two that I like in particular
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 3: are the opium Den with the gun. And you know,
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 3: my personal favorite is probably when I think it's Doc
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 3: Holliday who like fires his gun to scare a horse
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 3: and then that reveals the guy's cover. That's a good one.
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 3: But apart from that, yeah, I would I would agree
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 3: the word is perfunctory. They're just kind of like eh. So,
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 3: even though we're not necessarily measuring the goon deaths in
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 3: thirteen Assassins, it's all of the build up that makes.
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: The movie for me, right, So I would like to
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 1: thank Adam for making my vote moot, which sort of
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 1: gives me cover because I'm voting Tombstone, and I was
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 1: sitting there like, I do I really have a good
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: reason for voting Tombstone other than I like that movie better.
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm as we've been sitting here talking. I
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: think Adam's point is correct, But overall, like if I
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: if I have to justify my vote for Tombstone, it
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 1: means I have to be really annoying and nitpicky about
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: the definition of like an action scene versus a goon death,
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: and I have to do and I don't want to
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: do any of that. So thank you Adam for giving
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 1: me the cover. It doesn't my vote doesn't matter, so
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: I get to give it to Tombstone and not feel
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: bad about it. Yeah, Huffleberry, all right, So so where
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: are we now? We are Round one went to Round
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 1: one went to Tombstone, Round two went to.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: So it's coming down to round three death acting.
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: All right, So I'll say this is where it matters
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: that we decided Johnny Ringo counts, because Johnny Ringo has
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 1: the best death scene I think, and Michael Bain is
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: really selling it. And what I like about it is
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 1: that it is so understated because it is just one
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: quick shot to the skull just above his eye and
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 1: it just starts leaking. His head doesn't explode, and you
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 1: can he's just kind of stands there in surprise and
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 1: stagger for a little bit. You know. Michael Bayinn obviously
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 1: is not an extra in this, but like he gets
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 1: the moment, he gets a good death scene in this,
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: And so that I mean that alone for death acting,
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 1: for just newing favorites, like having Johnny Ringo puts Tombstone,
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: I think well into the advantage here.
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 3: And this is the other thing about a Western in general.
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 3: I've been on your show previously talking about how much
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 3: I love a cowboy falling from a great height into
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 3: a bail of hay. I do love a cowboy falling
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 3: from a great height into a.
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 1: Bail of hay.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 3: And it takes an average, normal, unremarkable death and turns
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 3: it into a fun stunt man spectacle. It's like that
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 3: is the the element of Hollywood stuntman. And the only
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 3: issue that I have with thirteen assass is that the
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 3: goons are killed so efficiently and expediently that you never
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 3: really get to watch any of them do anything after
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 3: that other than crumple and die, and you know, all
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 3: of the build up, not a lot of the aftermath.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 3: So I'm hinting toward mind.
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: The last year of heavies I think is really hurting
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: thirteen on this just I think there's a lot of
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 2: really great little performances in thirteen, like the thing I
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, where there is a constant thing of Lord
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 2: Shimada is constantly talking shit on these guys as they
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 2: are dying for him, and you can't they so they
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 2: all get to do a moment of like that guy
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: just said that I fucking suck and he hopes I
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 2: get stabbed in the face and now I gotta go
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: die because of him, and that they they a lot
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 2: of them really get to shine in that moment of like, fuck,
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do this, this sucks shit.
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 1: My two favorite are the last other other than the Lord,
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: or the last two people that die. Right after Hambei
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: gets killed, there are two other random extras standing on
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: the other side of the Lord and they both look
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: they look pissed their pants, terrified, and then they both
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: kind of decide okay, and then they like do fake
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 1: like a throws and because they know they're about to
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 1: disc and they are of course dispatched instantly, they get
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 1: a good moment pre that. But on the other hand,
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 1: Tombstone not just Ringo, but like every guy who gets
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: shot is no nobody gets shot and just crumples over.
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: People get shot and they continue shooting even though they
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 1: are you know, bleeding out. They have you know, every
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: extra who isn't just like flash of gun and then
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 1: cut to the next thing is still you know, work
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 1: into to the last drop.
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 2: I think this is kind of a battle of dudes
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 2: act like being scared shitless but trying to not look
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 2: scared shitless because I think especially the shootout in the
• 2:19:15
  Speaker 2: OK Corral. These guys are all like, fuck, like this
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: is so dumb, I don't want to do this, Oh crap,
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: And they're just kind of frantically flailing and shooting at
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 2: each other. And the same thing is happening at thirteen
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 2: Assassins with these guys that are like all fucking terrified,
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 2: And I think just kind of with sort of the
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 2: the more unique personalities that the cowboys get, I think
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 2: they are pulling it out just they get more time
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 2: to shine.
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 1: I think I think that in this case. Earlier Adam
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 1: said that the uh, the number, the smaller number of
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 1: guys in Tombstone is a disadvantage compared to the like
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 1: orgon wave that you get with thirteen Assassins. But but
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 1: the flip side is here, because there's a limited number
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: of guys, they get more screened just by the amount
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 1: of screen time they get. They get better death moments
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 1: and they get better performances. And you know, thirteen Assassins
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: needs to kill a lot of guys really quickly, So
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 1: it's just kind of slash fall, flash fall, slash fall Ye.
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: Tombstone has time.
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 3: It would have been different, it would have been different
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 3: in Thirteen Assassins, if we see, you know, the gate
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 3: closing and somebody gets them pale and that guy can
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 3: trying to survive, or it would have been different if
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 3: we see one of the Akashi soldiers get a leg
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 3: cut off and he's like, ah, well, you know whatever,
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 3: I can keep going. You know, if we would have
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 3: seen people, Like I said, it's thirteen assassins all build up,
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 3: not a ton of aftermath. And so you're totally right.
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 3: We because of the volume that we're dealing with, we
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 3: don't really get to spend any unique time with what happens.
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 2: Get good deaths, they get great deaths. Sure, I wish
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 2: I could qualify them as heavies.
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 3: And I want to say, and in case anybody's listening
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 3: to this who hasn't seen Thirteen Assassins, see this movie.
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 3: It's a great movie. And the villain is so over
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 3: the top insane, oh diabolical psychopath and is great, is
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 3: doing a great job being exactly that. It's really good. Yeah,
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 3: he doesn't count.
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: I wish we could, and I wish we could do
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 1: an Illest Villains and talk about him as a villain,
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 1: especially because like the way that it is built up
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: to the way that he actually is in a fight
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 1: is such a good fun moment, like twist. I enjoy
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 1: it so much, but like not a goon doesn't care.
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 3: His death is awesome. His death is really good.
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think I mean, i'll I can kick
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 1: it off.
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 2: I do want to give I think we all know
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 2: which way this is going, but I do want to
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 2: say there is in thirteen there is some really good
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, that's a bomb acting that is I think
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 2: when you're tying to shine, there's one extra.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: That gets a close up. That's the only guy that
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 1: gets a face boone.
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 2: I would say that happens. Doesn't that happen like three
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 2: times where they it's the thirteen Assassin's main move is
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: come chase me in here. Ah fuck, that's a bomb,
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 2: like and then thing blows up.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, one guy gets a fuck that's a bomb.
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: One guy does. True. There is one guy who is
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 1: just like fire no because a candle. He slips in
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 1: some oil and someone drops a candle on him, so
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: he gets a good like.
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 3: No, come on, yeah, that's a good one.
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 4: Like.
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: His death response is all.
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 3: Come on, man, and if anything, you know, since we
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 3: we started this conversation by talking about what is what
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 3: is the good guy version of a goon? You know,
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 3: they do get good deaths, we get some like good
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 3: interesting they're going down to the last bit that they
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 3: have death sequences. But I don't know if we're necessarily
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 3: if I can't, so.
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 1: We got we had a drawing line somewhere Tombstone.
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Tombstone. Tombstone is gonna take it. If
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: we hadn't given Tombstone, Johnny Ringo, would thirteen Assassins have
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 2: more of a chance.
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 1: I think Tombstone would still take it.
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 3: But like, yeah, I think at the end of the day,
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 3: Tombstone would still take it. And this is why this
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 3: has been an interesting conversation because I started this by
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 3: not thinking Tombstone qualifies as a goon movie and then
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 3: changed my opinion on that and I gave it to
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 3: thirteen Assassins in terms of, you know, all of the
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 3: build up that Tombstone doesn't really have, and Tombstone still
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 3: ekes out, you know, there's still I mean, it just
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 3: feels like such a classic, awesome Hollywood movie and watching
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 3: these guys go down, you know, these extras, these actors
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 3: with not a lot going on. They're using every last
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 3: drop of their screen time and that's what we're talking about.
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So ultimately, I mean, I think we always
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 1: wanted to talk about Johnny Ringo because we wanted to,
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 1: but like Tombstone didn't need Johnny. I think, okay for this.
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I are we saying that's a unanimous round
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 2: three on Tombstone.
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I'm giving my vote to Tombstone.
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: For round Okay. So that is round one Tombstone, Round two,
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 2: thirteen Assassins, Round three Tombstone. So that is Tombstone moving
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 2: on to the next round.
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 3: And I want to say, as your first guest on
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 3: your first episode for this project, I'm not feeling very
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 3: good about two Japanese movies getting knocked out by to
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 3: American product. I'm not feeling very good about this, but
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 3: you know, it is what it is, and I do
• 2:24:41
  Speaker 3: think that we will see some non American representation coming
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 3: through in other tournaments. Just looking at the full bracket
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 3: the series of them, I have Hard Boiled as off
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 3: to a difficult start. I think I really thought Shogun
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 3: Assassin was gonna pull it out.
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I came in and I was like, Shogun Assassin
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 2: is gonna be the upset of the tournament.
• 2:25:04
  Speaker 1: It's not a real movie.
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 1: You thought you thought that America's Bloodiest home Videos was
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 1: gonna really fucking win this one, bro. That is true.
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 3: It's true, and you know what, come to think of it.
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 3: Come to think of it when I'm reflecting here, realistically,
• 2:25:24
  Speaker 3: the only actual Japanese movie I'm discussing is Thirteen Assassins
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 3: because Shogun Assassin, no, sure isn't it is? It is
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 3: using the assets from a Japanese film, but it Shogun
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 3: Assassin is not is no?
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, all right, thank you everybody for joining us on
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 2: goon Royale. Thank you Adam for your first episode of
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 2: doing this with us. You're locked the fuck in for
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 2: a couple more of these.
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I enjoy this. So you know, it's always fun
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 3: when you get the opportunity to go back to an
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 3: education system and enjoy the homework. And that's really how
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 3: I'm viewing this. This is an educational opportunity and I'm
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 3: enjoying the homework. I've watched a lot of people get
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 3: murked in the last forty eight hours just to prepare
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 3: for this conversation with you. A lot of fun looking
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 3: forward to what comes next, and some movies that I
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 3: have not seen before. So you know, I've got to
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 3: fill some gaps.
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 1: So thanks for joining us here on this, on this
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 1: fun experiment, folks. We're happy to be here. We're happy
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 1: to take this as long as it takes. And until
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 1: next time, don't fuck around with your kuza. Go home
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 1: to your mother.
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 4: Choose the sword and you will join me. Choose the
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 4: ball and you join your money. You don't understand my words?
• 2:27:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, totally man or whole wait for the scarp Blue
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 5: Balley kids. In eighty three, Rock said lords, I remember
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 5: Rex performed tight decks my own foe sex watch out
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 5: for Haiti bitches. I heard they throw heads, go who
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 5: hold platoona still with raccoons? And why they get set
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 5: an apple poon? It saint no white bucks because I'll
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 5: be fucking crazy space the kid hold white sit like
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 5: Black's rock ashy legs? Why is the sky blue? Why
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 5: is water way? Why did Judis back the room as wild?
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 5: Jesus slept stand though you had a look like too
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 5: gold stuff? I ad man be sipping room had a
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 5: Stanley cups on Flamelia Amy Nazi State, Indian Chicago's Pine
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 5: ching glumm pogos.
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 1: Jingles and rabo collers, promoters.
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 5: Trotter o'do, Jimmy Mama, four poe, wrap you up, and
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 5: so and so around the dark ages, Constantine the Great,
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 5: Kenny the Age built what genghis tong and red sway,
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 5: whoy don I judge wisely, as if nothing never surprised me,
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 5: lounging between two pillars of library and lively, But don't peace.
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 5: It's like building stones and Greece A ponems are deep
• 2:28:26
  Speaker 5: from ancient thrones.
• 2:28:26
  Speaker 1: I speak.
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 3: I'm rother whelm as my mom brothers a realm.
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 1: MAHA's Divisions. Memory is the film