Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / When All Their Friends Have Phones and You’re Standing Firm

Transcript

When All Their Friends Have Phones and You’re Standing Firm · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: Go today and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Screens
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  Speaker 1: are at the center of pretty much every parenting dilemma
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  Speaker 1: we're facing today. It's so common for us to be
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  Speaker 1: grappling with how our children interact with screens, how screens
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  Speaker 1: interact with how children interact with their peers. Screens are
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  Speaker 1: at the core of every major parenting dilemma, or at
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  Speaker 1: least the vast majority of them. And today, answering your
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  Speaker 1: tricky questions, I'm flying solo, Misshappy Families can't be with
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  Speaker 1: me today, But right after the break, we're going to
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  Speaker 1: dip into a tricky question about helping kids to be connected.
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  Speaker 1: When all the friends are on screens and you're trying
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  Speaker 1: so hard to not have your kids on screens, what
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  Speaker 1: are we supposed to do that? Next? Stay with us. Hello,
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Real parenting solutions every
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  Speaker 1: single day. It's Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. My name
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  Speaker 1: stops Justin Colson, dad to six daughter's husband to one wife.
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  Speaker 1: But today one of your tricky questions. If you've got
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  Speaker 1: a question like you'd like to ask, just jump online
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  Speaker 1: to Happy Families dot com dot a you We have
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  Speaker 1: a super simple system there where you can click a
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  Speaker 1: button start talking about anything that's on your mind, anything
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  Speaker 1: that's struggling with I'd love to know about it. Happy
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  Speaker 1: families dot com dot you, or you can send a
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  Speaker 1: voice memo to podcasts at happy families dot com dot au.
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  Speaker 1: Here we go with today's tricky question. This one is
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  Speaker 1: from Carolyn in Melbourne.
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  Speaker 2: Hi, my name's Carolyn. I'm calling from Greensborough. I'm looking
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  Speaker 2: for some guidance around peer groups and the pressure that
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  Speaker 2: they put on on children. I have an eleven year
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  Speaker 2: old daughter who is really looking to spend some more
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  Speaker 2: time with her peers and get a mobile phone and
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  Speaker 2: follow the crowd. We have some pretty strict boundaries at home,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm concerned that in sticking to those is actually
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  Speaker 2: going to push her away. Can you please give me
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  Speaker 2: some advice around the best way to manage this? Thank you?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Carolyn. Not an uncommon question and something that so
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  Speaker 1: many parents are struggling with. Kids want to connect with
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  Speaker 1: their peers. Peers are on phones. Child now on to phone.
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  Speaker 1: You've got a strategy around keeping your children off phones
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  Speaker 1: for as long as time we'll allow it. How do
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  Speaker 1: we navigate this? I think the first thing is that
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  Speaker 1: we've got to start with the validation of the need.
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  Speaker 1: We've got an love year old daughter here who is
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  Speaker 1: asking for something that is both healthy and age appropriate,
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  Speaker 1: more connection with her peers around about eleven ish friendships
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  Speaker 1: become central to identity development, they're central to well being.
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  Speaker 1: This is a good thing. We don't want to fight
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  Speaker 1: this need. We want to support it. It's just that
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  Speaker 1: the method of supporting it needs a little bit of finessing.
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  Speaker 1: And there's some conversations that need to be had with
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  Speaker 1: your daughter. I should also add some of these conversations
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  Speaker 1: are just not going to go very well no matter
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  Speaker 1: how carefully you follow any instructions that we're discussed in
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  Speaker 1: this podcast. So let's talk about this idea of strict boundaries,
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  Speaker 1: because it's very clear from what you said, Carolyn, that
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  Speaker 1: you're worried that by having boundaries in place, that you're
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  Speaker 1: going to push your daughter away. And it's true that
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  Speaker 1: sometimes boundaries can do that. Rules without relationships lead to rebellion,
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  Speaker 1: but research also shows that kids do not pull away
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  Speaker 1: from parents who hold firm on important values and boundaries.
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  Speaker 1: They pull away though, from parents who are dismissive or
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  Speaker 1: controlling or who are unwilling to listen. That is, there
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  Speaker 1: are a range of autonomy supportive and need supportive behaviors
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  Speaker 1: that you can engage in that facilitate the development and
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  Speaker 1: the internalization a willingness to follow boundaries. So there are
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  Speaker 1: five or six different ways that we can look at
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  Speaker 1: how your child's going to regulate herself. The first one
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  Speaker 1: is external regulators. That's basically you threatening or promising goodies
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  Speaker 1: when the kids do the right thing completely, an effective,
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  Speaker 1: lowest form of education. The next kind is this thing
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  Speaker 1: that's called interjective. That's when I'm doing it because I
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  Speaker 1: have to. No one's making it, but I'm doing it
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  Speaker 1: because I'm supposed to. Why should I have to? I must.
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  Speaker 1: The third kind is the one that we're trying to
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  Speaker 1: get to here when it comes to your child being
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  Speaker 1: on board with the boundaries and going, Okay, they're strict,
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  Speaker 1: but I get it. And this is where the word
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  Speaker 1: values really sort of this is the lynch pin the
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  Speaker 1: hinge point. Values are things that I get like, I
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  Speaker 1: value it, I see the benefit of it, I buy
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  Speaker 1: the why, I understand the rationale. So when I say
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  Speaker 1: that you're worried that having these boundaries are going to
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  Speaker 1: push her away. They'll only push her away if she
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  Speaker 1: perceives that the boundaries are unfairly controlling, or that you're
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  Speaker 1: dismissive of her needs and you're not willing to listen
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  Speaker 1: to what's going on. You can create boundaries where she goes, Oh, okay,
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  Speaker 1: so you're getting where I'm coming from. But I understand
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  Speaker 1: your rationale. I understand your why, I understand the reason
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  Speaker 1: that you're saying that these boundaries are in place. Your
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  Speaker 1: child might not like the boundaries, but they'll be like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: this kind of makes sense. Don't like it, but it
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  Speaker 1: makes sense. Therefore, I'm identifying my regulation around this, My
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  Speaker 1: motivation around this is what psychologists would call identified regulation,
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  Speaker 1: and this is what we're trying to get to. This
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  Speaker 1: means that you can develop boundaries with her and stay
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  Speaker 1: close with her because of it's not what you say,
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  Speaker 1: it's how you say it. It's not what you do,
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  Speaker 1: it's how you do it. So all we're really trying
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  Speaker 1: to do is separate the phone from her connection with
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  Speaker 1: her peers. You can tell her that the phone is
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  Speaker 1: a tool, but it's not the only tool for meeting
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  Speaker 1: her need for peer connection. What we're trying to do
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  Speaker 1: is find ways to say yes to more friend time
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  Speaker 1: while saying not yet to the phone. And in our home,
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  Speaker 1: we've done a lot of this around having a landline,
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  Speaker 1: minimizing our children's access to devices, and finding other ways
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  Speaker 1: for them to communicate or if they do need to
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  Speaker 1: do it, being on a very strictly monitored chat group
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  Speaker 1: that the parents know what's going on, they can be
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  Speaker 1: involved in any time because it's on a parent phone. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: so we're going to talk about how we do all
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  Speaker 1: of that right after the break, including a framework or model,
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  Speaker 1: plus some scripts that you can use that will make
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  Speaker 1: these conversations work. Stay with us, we're back. This is
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  Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast, answering your tricky questions. If you
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  Speaker 1: find these answers helpful, if you think the podcast is
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  Speaker 1: making difference in your family, please share it with your friends.
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  Speaker 1: Just click the shared button and pass along to somebody
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  Speaker 1: that you think might benefit from the conversation we're're having. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: so you've heard me, if you've listened to the podcast
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  Speaker 1: for any length of time, talk about the three's of
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  Speaker 1: effective discipline. I want to step into that with a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of nuance and a little bit of a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of scripting around this. Let's talk about explore, explain, empower.
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  Speaker 1: Got a child wants to use the phone, wants to
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  Speaker 1: be connected with her friends, and we're saying we don't
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  Speaker 1: love this. So let's start with explore because as we're
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  Speaker 1: gathering that information, showing that you care about her perspective,
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  Speaker 1: this is an autonomy supportive behavior. You say things like,
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  Speaker 1: tell me more about what you're hoping that a phone
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  Speaker 1: will give you, or what do your friends do on
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  Speaker 1: the phone when you're together, or how does it feel
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  Speaker 1: being the only one that doesn't have a phone. So
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  Speaker 1: as you get this information and you're genuinely trying to
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  Speaker 1: see her perspective, you're not doing it because it's a tactic.
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  Speaker 1: You're doing it because you actually care about what's going
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  Speaker 1: on in her world. She hopefully opens up, she shares,
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  Speaker 1: she talks to you about it. She's not trying to
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  Speaker 1: sell you. She's just answering questions about what's going on
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  Speaker 1: with the phone, why it's so important, and why using
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  Speaker 1: the device is such an integral part of making these
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  Speaker 1: connections work. Once you've done that, you've done it really effectively,
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  Speaker 1: to the point that you can say, all right, so
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  Speaker 1: here's what you're saying. You're saying X, Y, and Z,
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  Speaker 1: and your child says, oh, that's exactly what I'm saying.
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  Speaker 1: And there's no disagreement. And you've said is there anything
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  Speaker 1: else and they've said no, that's everything. Then you move
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  Speaker 1: to explain here's what I would say based on a
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  Speaker 1: doctor's desk episode that we did. Let's go to some
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  Speaker 1: stats from a study that was published in the Pediatrics
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  Speaker 1: Journal a little while ago, and I talked about this
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  Speaker 1: at length on the pod. I'd say to my child,
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  Speaker 1: I get you on the smartphone, but I want to
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  Speaker 1: talk to you about what some researchers have discovered about
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  Speaker 1: kids being on smartphones at your age. The younger you are,
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  Speaker 1: the more likely it is that you'll have depression, the
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  Speaker 1: more likely it is that you'll struggle with sleep, and
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  Speaker 1: the greater the likely believe it or not that you're
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  Speaker 1: ever going to struggle with weight issues. Twelve year olds
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  Speaker 1: with phones had a thirty one percent chance of high depression,
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  Speaker 1: a forty percent chance of obesity, and a sixty two
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  Speaker 1: percent likelihood of worse sleep compared to twelve year olds
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  Speaker 1: without phones. And that's when you use the following line
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  Speaker 1: or script. My job as your mum is to protect
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  Speaker 1: your developing brain, even when that feels unfair. It's not
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  Speaker 1: about not trusting you. It's about what these devices have
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  Speaker 1: been designed to do. They're built to be addictive. And
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  Speaker 1: I don't want you to be depressed. I don't want
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  Speaker 1: you to have bad sleep. I don't want you to
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  Speaker 1: have any body image issues or be worried about your weight.
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  Speaker 1: So my job is to educate you on this and
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  Speaker 1: help you to be healthy. So let's explore and explain.
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  Speaker 1: Now we move to empower. So that's when you basically
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  Speaker 1: say something along the lines of and again, here's a
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  Speaker 1: really gentle and easy script for you. Let's figure out
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  Speaker 1: together how we can help you stay connected to your
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  Speaker 1: friends in a way that doesn't require to be on
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  Speaker 1: a smartphone. And maybe you start coming up with ideas
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  Speaker 1: like setting up more hangouts or get togethers, using the
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  Speaker 1: family phone so that you can text friends when you're
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  Speaker 1: at home, or using the landline so that you can
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  Speaker 1: have conversations. And then you might say, when you're I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to say sixteen, you might say ford, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: every family's got to work this out for themselves. We'll
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  Speaker 1: talk about a smartphone. When you've got enough money to
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  Speaker 1: provide for your own phone, then we can talk about that.
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  Speaker 1: But for now, what would make this easier. The whole
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  Speaker 1: idea of empowerment is not too say to your child,
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  Speaker 1: you can do whatever you want. I'm going to empower
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  Speaker 1: you another explain some stuff. It's about saying, let's collaborate
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  Speaker 1: on this, and it's obviously moving away from dictating to
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  Speaker 1: your child. The only other thing that I can really
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  Speaker 1: think of to share here, Carolyn, that I think is
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  Speaker 1: going to be useful is this. You asked if sticking
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  Speaker 1: to your boundaries is going to push her away. But
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  Speaker 1: boundaries don't push kids away when they feel heard and loved.
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  Speaker 1: The thing that damages relationships is when kids feel dismissed
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  Speaker 1: or when they feel controlled, especially when there's no explanations.
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  Speaker 1: So if we stay warm and we stay connected, and
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  Speaker 1: if we hold these boundaries but with lots of empathy
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  Speaker 1: and lots of conversation and lots of exploration and explanation,
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  Speaker 1: empowerment the data points to children doing better. It doesn't
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  Speaker 1: guarantee that there won't be any fights. It doesn't stop
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  Speaker 1: the pleading and that, but I can I can I,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm going to ask every second DA until I
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  Speaker 1: get a yes. What it does do, though, is, as
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  Speaker 1: a general rule, it shows that children are going to
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  Speaker 1: respect you, they're going to respect the rule, and they're
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  Speaker 1: much more likely to go along with it. There's no
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  Speaker 1: iron clad way, there's no one hundred percent guaranteed solution here,
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  Speaker 1: but this is, from my read of the research, one
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  Speaker 1: of the most proven and one of the most powerful
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  Speaker 1: ways that we can move the needle in a positive
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  Speaker 1: direction in these tricky conversations. So where do we land
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  Speaker 1: with this right now? The answer is no. But when
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  Speaker 1: you're old enough to buy your own phone, or when
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  Speaker 1: you're fourteen, or when you're able to demonstrate this level
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  Speaker 1: of responsibility, we're happy to revisit this with you, and
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  Speaker 1: that will give her something to work towards and show
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  Speaker 1: that you're not being unilaterally or arbitrarily rigid endlessly and forever.
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  Speaker 1: Our youngest really, really, really wants an iPad. She wants
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  Speaker 1: to be able to use the phone and the iPad
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  Speaker 1: all the time, and we keep on having this same
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  Speaker 1: conversation with her, and right now she understands that the
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  Speaker 1: answer is no, because she still hasn't been able to
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  Speaker 1: demonstrate a reasonable amount of responsibility in the way that
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  Speaker 1: she uses screens when she's given that privilege anyway, So
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  Speaker 1: for now she's too young, and as a parent you're
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  Speaker 1: allowed to say no. You say it matters though, and
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  Speaker 1: hopefully this has helped you with the right way to
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  Speaker 1: say it. So let's wrap this up, Carolyn. The challenge
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  Speaker 1: that you're facing is definitely not about the phone. It's
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  Speaker 1: about a lot more than the phone. It's about teaching
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  Speaker 1: your daughter that you're going to hold boundaries because you
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  Speaker 1: love her. But it's also teaching her that you listen
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  Speaker 1: to her and work with her to meet needs that
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  Speaker 1: she presents you. And that's the foundation of relationships that
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  Speaker 1: last in positive ways throughout adolescence, which is so trying
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  Speaker 1: and obviously beyond that. Really hope that it's a healthful response,
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  Speaker 1: And thanks so much for the question. We love getting
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  Speaker 1: your questions. If you have a question for us, a
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  Speaker 1: tricky question, they're the best ones. You can get in
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  Speaker 1: touch with us via a voice note podcasts at happy
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  Speaker 1: families dot com dot au or jump online the Happy
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  Speaker 1: where it says send us a voice note and start talking.
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  Speaker 1: It's a super simple system and we love hearing it
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  Speaker 1: from you. The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin
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  Speaker 1: more and fo about making your family happier at happy
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  Speaker 1: families dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Do you
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  Speaker 1: Hmm?