Latest / Stephanomics / How Covid-19 Is Helping Robots Take Your Job

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How Covid-19 Is Helping Robots Take Your Job · Stephanomics

0:07
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings the
0:09
Speaker 1: global economy to you. This week, we're thinking about jobs, machines,
0:14
Speaker 1: and COVID nineteen. At the start of this pandemic, a
0:17
Speaker 1: lot of people decided globalization was dead, the companies would
0:21
Speaker 1: pull their factories out of China and supply chains would shrink.
0:25
Speaker 1: By and large companies haven't done that, but COVID nineteen
0:28
Speaker 1: does seem to have brought forward the day when an
0:30
Speaker 1: awful lot of the jobs we see around us are
0:32
Speaker 1: done by a machine. In a few minutes, I'll be
0:35
Speaker 1: talking about what the future holds with Harvard Economics chair
0:39
Speaker 1: and deep thinker about all things labor related Richard Freeman.
0:44
Speaker 1: Our chief European economist, Jamie Rush is also going to
0:47
Speaker 1: explain why the answer to the biggest question in the
0:50
Speaker 1: global economy right now is three point two trillion dollars.
0:55
Speaker 1: I'll leave you to work out with the questions, but
0:58
Speaker 1: first here's u s A economy reporter Olivia Rockman on
1:02
Speaker 1: the truth about robots and jobs in the year of
1:05
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. Adding more robots to factories, retail stores, or
1:22
Speaker 1: mines was historically seen as a job killer by workers
1:25
Speaker 1: and the unions that support them. But this year, automation
1:28
Speaker 1: has allowed sectors of the economy to continue producing with
1:31
Speaker 1: fewer people or without any at all, minimizing the coronavirus
1:35
Speaker 1: risk for workers. Unions have recognized that automation will continue
1:39
Speaker 1: to accelerate to avoid massive outbreaks like the ones seen
1:42
Speaker 1: in US meatpacking plants earlier this year. But while they're
1:46
Speaker 1: all for protecting workers, their concern is widespread and permanent
1:49
Speaker 1: job loss. In many cases, once a company invests the
1:52
Speaker 1: cash to implement automation, it's unlikely that they'll take their
1:56
Speaker 1: workers back. A highway in Pennsylvania cut five toll worker
2:00
Speaker 1: jobs earlier this year after putting an electronic system into place,
2:05
Speaker 1: and it doesn't plan to bring any of the employees back.
2:08
Speaker 1: Marcus Casey, an economist at the University of Illinois at Chicago,
2:12
Speaker 1: spoke with me about how eliminating jobs can exacerbate inequality
2:16
Speaker 1: those workers aren't taught new skills. High skill jobs that
2:19
Speaker 1: require creative or human touch, so to speak, will remain
2:22
Speaker 1: um even in cases where pay is not necessarily much higher.
2:27
Speaker 1: For example, skill workers say professors like myself may see
2:31
Speaker 1: our pay is relatively flat in the future, However, among
2:35
Speaker 1: people who aren't necessarily as skilled, because there will be
2:40
Speaker 1: fewer jobs, you might see pay actually decrease because of
2:44
Speaker 1: increased competition in those sectors. One solution to the inequality
2:50
Speaker 1: problem is increased investment in reskilling, which can help factory
2:53
Speaker 1: workers transition into jobs in healthcare, for example, where automation
2:58
Speaker 1: is more difficult to implement. That's US President electro Biden's
3:01
Speaker 1: plan ensure that employers give workers impacted by automation advanced
3:06
Speaker 1: notice and put them at the front of the line
3:08
Speaker 1: for new jobs, as well as paid skills training. Currently,
3:12
Speaker 1: though the United States, Chile, and Mexico spend the least
3:15
Speaker 1: among O E c D countries on policies intended to
3:19
Speaker 1: improve job readiness and expand employment. That isn't likely to
3:22
Speaker 1: change quickly because health concerns are coming first, and Casey
3:26
Speaker 1: says there will be consequences. We already have a long
3:29
Speaker 1: term problem with people who are prime age and not working.
3:33
Speaker 1: Our employment to population ratio has been declining for many decades,
3:38
Speaker 1: and supposed in the future we go from a situation
3:42
Speaker 1: where we have a sixty seven or sixty eight percent
3:45
Speaker 1: employment of population rate to maybe a fifty employment to
3:49
Speaker 1: population rate. Many of those people are young, prime age malls,
3:54
Speaker 1: and our social insurance programs tend to direct money away
3:58
Speaker 1: from that population. So I'm delighted now to be able
4:05
Speaker 1: to talk to Richard Freeman. Herbert Asherman, share of economics
4:09
Speaker 1: at Harvard, taught me a lot about labor markets quite
4:12
Speaker 1: a long time ago. Richard, thanks for coming on Stephanomics.
4:17
Speaker 1: We're talking this week about the impact that COVID nineteen
4:20
Speaker 1: has had on workers in the US and Europe, and
4:23
Speaker 1: also how fits into the longer term structural changes in
4:28
Speaker 1: the labor market that you've spent a lot of your
4:31
Speaker 1: life thinking about and studying. And one thing that's come
4:35
Speaker 1: up a lot is the unequal way that this pandemic
4:38
Speaker 1: has hit society's and households, with poorer people much more
4:41
Speaker 1: likely to get sick and more likely to lose their jobs.
4:45
Speaker 1: But we also know that fiscal stimulus, certainly in the US,
4:49
Speaker 1: actually increased the disposable income of many lower wage Americans
4:54
Speaker 1: in twenty and I think you've also had many parts
4:58
Speaker 1: of the world are kind of out break of social
5:01
Speaker 1: solidarity in many places, and maybe a new appreciation of
5:04
Speaker 1: the value of people in some of these low page
5:07
Speaker 1: jobs that we reminded are so important for keeping the
5:10
Speaker 1: country going. So when you look back at do you
5:16
Speaker 1: think it's going to mark a break with some of
5:18
Speaker 1: those long term trends for labor or or more an acceleration.
5:24
Speaker 1: My guess is it will more accelerate things because the
5:30
Speaker 1: good outcomes that we had on the particularly through our
5:34
Speaker 1: almost unanimous Cares Act that really provided the people lost
5:43
Speaker 1: their jobs and the low income people are at least
5:49
Speaker 1: you know, financial protection. That was a one time thing.
5:52
Speaker 1: We may next few days plays something else, but that
5:57
Speaker 1: will also be a short term policy. The longer term
6:01
Speaker 1: thing is that we've created two different kinds of workers,
6:05
Speaker 1: those who work at home using computer technologies and those
6:11
Speaker 1: who work interacting with other humans and dangerous settings. And
6:18
Speaker 1: so I think the real push is going to be
6:21
Speaker 1: to automate more of those jobs and um to do
6:27
Speaker 1: more work at home phenomenon um. And that's that benefits
6:32
Speaker 1: one group of people, managers, professionals, and that harms another
6:38
Speaker 1: group of people, the people we were told next years ago,
6:42
Speaker 1: not not so long ago, where the we're going to
6:44
Speaker 1: be the heart of the new economy wasn't gonna be,
6:47
Speaker 1: you know, guys working in big factories. It was going
6:50
Speaker 1: to be all the people who interact with other humans.
6:54
Speaker 1: If this COVID is a one off and we don't
6:59
Speaker 1: see another another five six years, you know, maybe we'll
7:05
Speaker 1: we'll just go back to a more normal phenomenon. But
7:09
Speaker 1: there's a certainly a chunk of thinking in the scientific
7:12
Speaker 1: community that this is just the first pandemic that we're
7:18
Speaker 1: going to say, and they're more coming down the line.
7:22
Speaker 1: We're entering an age of pandemics, that this is not
7:27
Speaker 1: the first one that's gonna jump um, and the climate
7:31
Speaker 1: change is gonna add more to this. So if if
7:36
Speaker 1: this is a turning point, it's going to be a
7:39
Speaker 1: turning point changing work and I think speeding up automation
7:44
Speaker 1: and creating more problems for the lower skill people. Just
7:51
Speaker 1: to dig into that a bit, because then obviously is
7:53
Speaker 1: quite a lot of debate and pre dates COVID about
7:57
Speaker 1: the impact that the next wave of automation and artificial
8:02
Speaker 1: intelligence could have on on inequality and on and on jobs.
8:07
Speaker 1: And there is an argument that says, actually, this next
8:10
Speaker 1: wave is going to be kind of different, and that
8:13
Speaker 1: the jobs that we see were being replaced a kind
8:15
Speaker 1: of accountants quite high skilled workers UM that have done
8:21
Speaker 1: well in the previous few decades, the middle middle manager
8:26
Speaker 1: types potentially UM. And you might argue, I mean, if
8:29
Speaker 1: we don't live permanently in pandemic, you know, those kind
8:32
Speaker 1: of person to person to job jobs, hairdressing, all those things,
8:36
Speaker 1: I mean, they hadn't they didn't go away in the pandemic,
8:39
Speaker 1: and we're all trying to go back to our addresses
8:41
Speaker 1: when we can. So I wonder whether that we're whether
8:44
Speaker 1: you're exaggerating the impact of of COVID and not seeing
8:50
Speaker 1: potentially the other side of this automation, which does seem
8:53
Speaker 1: to have accelerated. Yeah. I've been sympathetic to the view
8:58
Speaker 1: that the more skilled people would be replaceable by really
9:02
Speaker 1: smart AI UM. But so far the evidence is that
9:07
Speaker 1: that hasn't happened. And all the AI experts told us
9:12
Speaker 1: accounting is gonna just die off, and in fact, the
9:16
Speaker 1: accountants keep increasing, and of course the accountant profession gets
9:21
Speaker 1: more computerized and people learn more skills. Yeah, it's hard,
9:26
Speaker 1: too hard for me to now see that those are
9:28
Speaker 1: the people who are going to be threatened as opposed
9:32
Speaker 1: to the clerks in the stores. UM. And and if
9:38
Speaker 1: we want to go to a store. I suppose I'd
9:41
Speaker 1: rather see a robot. It's safer for me as a
9:44
Speaker 1: consumer to deal with the robot that can't carry the disease.
9:57
Speaker 1: There was an old challenge that on the one hand,
10:02
Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about the risk of automation and
10:05
Speaker 1: the likelihood the automation is going to take jobs, at
10:08
Speaker 1: least in the chunk of the workforce, and yet we
10:11
Speaker 1: have this problem, ongoing problem, a very low labor productivity
10:15
Speaker 1: relative to the past. So what's the answer to that,
10:19
Speaker 1: Because on the face of it, it does seem a
10:21
Speaker 1: conundrum that we're that the automation could be destroying jobs
10:24
Speaker 1: but somehow not increasing our productivity the amount that we
10:27
Speaker 1: can make per person. Yeah. Well than some of that
10:31
Speaker 1: has to do with the sectors. Almost the ast bulk
10:34
Speaker 1: of the first automation things have have been factories, and
10:39
Speaker 1: productivity there has done reasonably well. So it's been in
10:43
Speaker 1: the in the server sectors where it's been slower, and
10:48
Speaker 1: that's where the workforce is shifted. Two. If we begin
10:53
Speaker 1: to see more automation in the service sectors, we will
10:57
Speaker 1: see productivity go up and there will be job problems
11:04
Speaker 1: and the wages would go up in some of these
11:06
Speaker 1: service sector jobs. The few that are left wages, so
11:09
Speaker 1: at least we will have wage growth if even if
11:12
Speaker 1: we've lost the jobs. No, No, correctly, So I I
11:16
Speaker 1: don't think if if we have a reasonably well organized economy,
11:20
Speaker 1: that we're going to see mass unemployment. These these things
11:24
Speaker 1: eight million, hundred million jobs disappearing, and depending on which
11:27
Speaker 1: country there or which area of the world they're talking about,
11:30
Speaker 1: I mean that what should happen is the workers will
11:33
Speaker 1: find some other jobs, and those that that will put
11:38
Speaker 1: downward pressure in those labor markets. And so I think
11:42
Speaker 1: the actual our concern should be much more what is
11:45
Speaker 1: automation going to do to the structure of wages? And
11:49
Speaker 1: that gets back to your earlier thing. Is it gonna
11:51
Speaker 1: harm the wages and the accountants and the managers or
11:56
Speaker 1: is it going to harm the wages of the clerks
12:00
Speaker 1: in the Your restaurant then has no waiters or waitresses,
12:06
Speaker 1: but just buttons. You have been in one in China
12:09
Speaker 1: where you just pushiate buttons. I assume there are a lot,
12:12
Speaker 1: must be more in Japan and Okay, then there's you
12:15
Speaker 1: feel safer, um, you etcetera, and um and it's more
12:22
Speaker 1: maybe it's more efficient, it's as well. And if that's
12:28
Speaker 1: going to be the way of the world, then where
12:30
Speaker 1: are the people who would have held those jobs going
12:33
Speaker 1: to go? We we just said we have to worry
12:36
Speaker 1: about them. I think, um, I would not. I would
12:39
Speaker 1: not trust natural forces teaching your automation to take care
12:44
Speaker 1: of the poorer and less skilled people. I think that's
12:49
Speaker 1: something we as societies have to deal with. So at
12:52
Speaker 1: one point you made them over the years, which I
12:55
Speaker 1: think is probably more much more accepted now that when
12:57
Speaker 1: you were first teaching me about it in the the Deities.
13:01
Speaker 1: Is the power of institutional change and the institutions rules,
13:06
Speaker 1: social morays, and how they have affected what happens to
13:11
Speaker 1: workers in the labor market, what happens to wages. You
13:14
Speaker 1: know that it's not just these aren't unstoppable forces that
13:17
Speaker 1: we can do nothing to control. We have a new
13:20
Speaker 1: administration in the US. Given what you know, you know,
13:25
Speaker 1: what could the Biden administration do to improve the outcomes
13:29
Speaker 1: for labor in the next few years. I'll take three
13:33
Speaker 1: things are one, Biden is incredibly committed to trade union reforms,
13:43
Speaker 1: So he is I've never seen a president speaks so strongly,
13:49
Speaker 1: and sometimes it seems like a voice from the past.
13:54
Speaker 1: Sometimes a voice from the past. He was around in
13:57
Speaker 1: the past too, We know that. So so he said
14:02
Speaker 1: g F. D. R said that Americans encourage unions, and
14:06
Speaker 1: that's what I'm gonna do, um and UM. And so
14:11
Speaker 1: he has a there is a pretty wealth set out plan.
14:15
Speaker 1: I don't know if they can get it through the
14:17
Speaker 1: Congress that would indeed strengthen that, but they're certainly gonna try.
14:22
Speaker 1: The second area that I think they will move is
14:27
Speaker 1: in the occupational health and safety area, the ocean, which
14:34
Speaker 1: should have stepped forward in the pandemic as a major
14:38
Speaker 1: force making sure workers are protected. In the US current
14:42
Speaker 1: debate or is where the Republicans want to give employers
14:47
Speaker 1: who bring workers back to unsafe workplaces UM protection against
14:52
Speaker 1: legal suits for you brought me back to an unsafe
14:55
Speaker 1: workplace and that that's that that's insane, it's some level
15:01
Speaker 1: UM and it will just cause more to disaster for everybody.
15:05
Speaker 1: And so I think there'll be a big push on
15:08
Speaker 1: the ocean. And we should be doing obviously more R
15:12
Speaker 1: and D and how can we protect workers in workplaces? UM,
15:16
Speaker 1: that would be a more natural thing to do the
15:20
Speaker 1: third area that that that they that they will push
15:24
Speaker 1: something with training people for the new technologies. And so
15:28
Speaker 1: there's a there's a big move inside the parts of
15:31
Speaker 1: the U. S. Government that they need really major uh
15:36
Speaker 1: changes in training. Um. I think the administration will will
15:41
Speaker 1: love this when it when they see what it's being planned.
15:45
Speaker 1: So so they'll they'll be those those uh, those friends.
15:49
Speaker 1: But there have to be major tax changes as well. Um.
15:54
Speaker 1: And how the Biden administration will will be able to
15:58
Speaker 1: reduce the tax cut given to the billionaires and their
16:01
Speaker 1: friends and do something more for ordinary citizens. We'll see.
16:08
Speaker 1: Richard Freeman, thank you very much. Okay, thank you. Now,
16:19
Speaker 1: what value would you put on the ability to lead
16:22
Speaker 1: a normal life? While you might say it's priceless, but
16:25
Speaker 1: Bloomberg economists say it's three trillion dollars. That's the net
16:29
Speaker 1: benefit to the global economy of countries with vaccination programs
16:32
Speaker 1: for COVID nineteen being able to get back to normal
16:36
Speaker 1: in That analysis was carried out by Chief of Mere
16:40
Speaker 1: economist Jamie rush Our, Chief Asia economists Chang Shu, and
16:44
Speaker 1: senior global economist Beyond Van Roy and Jamie rush Is
16:48
Speaker 1: with me. Now. Jamie briefly how did you come up
16:52
Speaker 1: with this number just over three trillion dollars. So we
16:56
Speaker 1: thought of it as a bounding exercise. We asked ourselves,
16:58
Speaker 1: and what's the best that it be possible for these
17:00
Speaker 1: economies of everything just happens to go just right. And
17:05
Speaker 1: so the way we approached it is we divided the
17:07
Speaker 1: world into three groups of countries. We thought that there
17:10
Speaker 1: are some that have got a chance perhaps of achieving
17:12
Speaker 1: herd immunity, some that would only be able to vaccinate
17:15
Speaker 1: the vulnerable populations, and some who probably even struggle to
17:19
Speaker 1: do that. So it's that first group of countries that
17:22
Speaker 1: has the best chance of getting back to normal. There'll
17:26
Speaker 1: still be cases in those countries, but widespread transmissions pretty unlikely.
17:30
Speaker 1: That means very low fatalities, very low personal and societal risks.
17:34
Speaker 1: So it's these countries which have a good chance of
17:36
Speaker 1: getting back to normal um. So what we did to
17:40
Speaker 1: work out of your countries in this group is we
17:41
Speaker 1: just compare the number of those is that are on
17:44
Speaker 1: order with the size of the population um and we
17:48
Speaker 1: found that about sixteen major economies are able to do that,
17:53
Speaker 1: and they're accounting for about half of world GDP and
17:56
Speaker 1: a third of the population, so thinking that what's the
17:59
Speaker 1: best that's possible for them, or maybe they can get
18:02
Speaker 1: back to their pre crisis trend, just maybe. So we
18:05
Speaker 1: estimate that in four Q and taking into account the
18:08
Speaker 1: impact of fresh lockdowns that the last the last three
18:12
Speaker 1: months of this, that's right, yep, the last few months.
18:14
Speaker 1: We were looking at those and we think that on
18:17
Speaker 1: average those sixteen economies are about six percent below their
18:22
Speaker 1: pre crisis trend level of output. So if you're able
18:25
Speaker 1: to vaccinate a very substantial portion of the population in
18:28
Speaker 1: those countries, then maybe if everything goes right, you could
18:31
Speaker 1: get back to that trend level. So six pc increase
18:35
Speaker 1: in GDP, which is about three point two percent of
18:38
Speaker 1: world GDP. In that second group with countries but just
18:43
Speaker 1: able to vaccinate the vulnerable populations. We think there are
18:46
Speaker 1: about eleven major economies and these are mostly emerging market
18:49
Speaker 1: economies and they don't make up a huge amount of
18:51
Speaker 1: world GDP. But we think that vaccinations in the vulnerable
18:55
Speaker 1: could have a very big impact on the economy because
18:58
Speaker 1: if you think of it, it will very significantly reduced fatalities,
19:01
Speaker 1: so intensive care beds won't be overburdened the risk of
19:06
Speaker 1: death most people will be very low, and so you
19:10
Speaker 1: should still see a very meaningful boost in g d P.
19:13
Speaker 1: But because these economies that are in this group a
19:14
Speaker 1: bit smaller, you only add an extra half percent to
19:18
Speaker 1: world GDP. And and so it's those two groups that
19:20
Speaker 1: account for the three trillion dollar boost. I mean, I
19:23
Speaker 1: understand these are just kind of broad magnitudes. We're not
19:26
Speaker 1: we're not saying that these exact numbers. But is there
19:30
Speaker 1: are you making an allowance here for the impact on
19:33
Speaker 1: of of lockdowns? I mean, is the assumption that you're
19:35
Speaker 1: saying that there will be no further lockdowns whereas there
19:38
Speaker 1: might have been lockdown what's the what's the assumption there?
19:41
Speaker 1: As the base case we've we've just assumed that the
19:44
Speaker 1: lockdowns are in place now, stay in place until until
19:48
Speaker 1: the spring um and then the vaccine gradually allows these
19:52
Speaker 1: to unwind. But it means that the countries that will
19:55
Speaker 1: get the biggest boost in the vaccine will obviously be
19:57
Speaker 1: the ones that have got the tightest lockdown condition or
20:00
Speaker 1: the lowest levels of g d P, So like the
20:02
Speaker 1: UK calls into that category, Spain as well, where there's
20:05
Speaker 1: really a lot of scope for improvement if they can
20:09
Speaker 1: they can they can move past the crisis phase of
20:12
Speaker 1: the pandemic and what you say the UK, of course
20:17
Speaker 1: this is to throw something else in the mix. But
20:19
Speaker 1: of course the UK in those three months is also
20:21
Speaker 1: going to be going through the sort of the final
20:23
Speaker 1: stage of Brexit, is actually not going out of the
20:26
Speaker 1: sort of transition period of Brexit where we were still
20:30
Speaker 1: following all the European rules. You spend you spent quite
20:34
Speaker 1: a lot of time thinking about what's going to happen
20:36
Speaker 1: to the UK next year. Do you think we're going
20:38
Speaker 1: to be able to see the effect of Brexit in
20:40
Speaker 1: the numbers or is it just going to be crowded
20:42
Speaker 1: out by this big boost from vaccinations and the bounce
20:45
Speaker 1: back of the economy generally as you come out of
20:48
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Well, I think if there is an impact
20:51
Speaker 1: from Brexit, it's likely to happen just before there's a
20:54
Speaker 1: boost from the pandemic, So you probably would see in
20:56
Speaker 1: the numbers because it would happen in the first quarter
20:58
Speaker 1: of this year. Um. And it's I don't think it's
21:02
Speaker 1: that likely that that would be a huge proportion of
21:04
Speaker 1: the population vaccinated by the end of them. Um. I
21:08
Speaker 1: mean I guess that the interesting thing about Brexit is
21:10
Speaker 1: that some of the policies that are in place to
21:12
Speaker 1: deal with COVID are also going to work pretty well
21:15
Speaker 1: for the Brexit shock, because both COVID and Brexit disruption
21:19
Speaker 1: would be a pretty similar, uh supply side disruption to
21:23
Speaker 1: the economy, something that's hopefully temporary that would eventually go away,
21:26
Speaker 1: and so it calls for the same sort of policy settings.
21:30
Speaker 1: So in the UK we have a large furlough scheme
21:33
Speaker 1: to protect workers protect jobs that would work if there's
21:36
Speaker 1: disruption for Brexit or if there's continued disruption for COVID.
21:39
Speaker 1: So in some ways it's it's helpful those those policies
21:42
Speaker 1: already in place. Um, when you think about what your
21:47
Speaker 1: sort of base cases for next year, how much is
21:51
Speaker 1: how much does the pace of vaccination affect where the
21:55
Speaker 1: global economy ends up at the end of next year
21:58
Speaker 1: relative to where it might have been. No, I think
22:01
Speaker 1: I think the realistic base cases that a portion of
22:04
Speaker 1: the population is vaccinated in advanced economies, and because it
22:09
Speaker 1: starts with the vulnerable groups, that that reduces fatalities quite
22:12
Speaker 1: substantially and allows people to go start living their lives
22:15
Speaker 1: a bit more normally. I mean, the big unknown is
22:18
Speaker 1: how the people that aren't in the vulnerable groups will
22:21
Speaker 1: behave once the vulnerable people are vaccinated. That's the that
22:25
Speaker 1: could be like the huge upside surprise to activity next year,
22:30
Speaker 1: where it could just be a massive dempscaph and everyone
22:32
Speaker 1: just stays and stikes are still scared. It's perfectly possibly
22:34
Speaker 1: it goes either way. So I think that it's it's
22:37
Speaker 1: um it's not a question even it's not a question
22:39
Speaker 1: of the medicine. It's not even a question of kind
22:43
Speaker 1: of the standard economics. It's a a what are people's
22:46
Speaker 1: behavior response going to be to this? And to be honest,
22:48
Speaker 1: we just don't know. I have to say anecdotally, my
22:52
Speaker 1: sense is that people are dying to go on lots
22:54
Speaker 1: of holidays to extend that they can and go and
22:58
Speaker 1: restaurants and other things. Now, how long that will last?
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Speaker 1: I think, isn't it? Because if you think back, if
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Speaker 1: you think back to the summer, I mean, people were
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Speaker 1: clamoring to get out and go to restaurants, fly, go home.
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Speaker 1: And it's one of the reasons why the economy picked
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Speaker 1: up so fast over that period is that people were
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Speaker 1: willing to do things even though that risk still existed,
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Speaker 1: so I'm fairly optimistic that's something something will be a
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Speaker 1: fairly major boost as vaccines wrong. Now, Jamie Rush, thank
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Speaker 1: you very much, thanks for listening to Stephonomics. We'll be
23:32
Speaker 1: back next week with more on all things economic. Remember
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Speaker 1: you can always find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, website,
23:39
Speaker 1: app or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can
23:41
Speaker 1: get a lot of news and analysis from Bloomberg Economics
23:44
Speaker 1: during the week by following at Economics on Twitter. This
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Speaker 1: episode was produced by Magnus Henrison, with special thanks to
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Speaker 1: Olivia Rockman, Richard Freeman, Chang Shue, Beyond, Van Roy, and
23:56
Speaker 1: Jamie Rush. Lucy Meekin is the executive producer of Stephonomics.
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Speaker 1: Send ahead of Blimpberg podcast Beast Francesco mm hm hm