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Monday Mini: Childless by Choice · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Ani and Samantha and welcome to stephone
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: never told your production of I Heart Radio. All right, An,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: let's get part from all you ready? Always always at
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: what point, because you know I've talked about this quite
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: a bit, Yes, did you decide that you probably don't
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: want kids. I was someone who was really into the
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: idea of kids for a while, and I had like
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: names picked out, which was very selfish of me for
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: any future partner. But I was like, these are the
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: names for my three children that I'm going to have.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: And then I think when I got to college, I
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: started being like, probably delay it because I thought I
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: was gonna this was all gonna happen like right after
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: college or something. I was like, no, I want to
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: travel and whatever. And then as I got older and
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I did travel, and I did start looking inwards. I
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: won't say that it was a necessarily a healthy decision,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: because at first it was very fear based, whereas like,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I can't I don't think I'd be good at raising children,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and so it was more of a I absorbed all
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: that messaging about being the perfect mom, I think, and like,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: you're going to screw up these children forever. But no
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: matter what you do. So I had that on my
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: brain and I was like, Okay, so I don't want
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to do that to a child. And then when I
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: started dating and I was in one of my first
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: long term relationships, that's when I realized. I guess it
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: was also kind of fear based, but I was afraid
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: that if I had children. While I would be someone
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: who would really push for like equal spreading of responsibilities,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I think I would also cave. And that's just like
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: a acknowledgement of who I am and how I've been raised.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: And I mean, it's a child, and I want to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: take care of them and I want to make them happy,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and I think that I would pick up more and
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: more slack and I would go more and more resentful.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So it was almost like a anti patriarchy thing where
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I'm like, as long as the system is this way
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: and I am this way, then I don't think that
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I want children. So I was probably about when I
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: had that realization, You're you're fairly young in this process,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: not according to our eggs, but in our timeline, I guess.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: And yeah, today, for our Monday many this is a
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: question that has been way, pretty heavily on me specifically,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: coming at forty looking at future prospects, being in one
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: of my longest relationships ever is kind of one of
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: those moments of like, Okay, you really have to have
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: a descision, You need to make up your mind and um,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: think about what all of this looks like for your
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: future and all of this in our respect to yeah,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: the country, ourselves, our families, whatever it may be. And
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: for me, it's been a whole internal back and forth
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: conversations about whether or not I wanted to be a parent,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and if I were to be a parent, would I
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: be a good parent, and if I actually could be
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: a good parent overall, um, and whether it would be
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: something that having kids it's even possible for me. I know,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: growing up at a younger age, I was severely abused
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: and there was a lot of questions for me. And
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I don't have any health issues that I know of.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I definitely have had a few systs as well as
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: when I would go back and have to have tests
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: and make sure everything was okay, HPV tests, all of that,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: you know, and that's not uncommon for a lot of
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: women in general, and so it was kind of like, Okay,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if this is possible for me,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: could I actually ap procreate for real? For real? And
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: for me even being a part of the dating world forever,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's been forever. But to be honest,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't actually start dating until it was about like two.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I've had a few dates every now and again, but
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I was just pretty much like, Nope, can't date, can't date.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I am not worthy of dating. I've been to trauma
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: tiest for dating. So I didn't really start dating until
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: mid twenties. And as of the last ten years of dating,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I've made sure how to have conversations if anybody comes
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: into any kind of seriousness, and even more so in
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the last five years when I've had any relationship at all,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: that's been a key point and be like, hey, I
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: know we're just getting to know each other, but do
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: you want children? Because I don't know if I do.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: And I think I've seen so many relationships and marriages
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: fall apart because it's not something they have discussed or
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: taken seriously. Like I've seen so many couples who will
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: be like, ah, they'll change their mind, they don't, and
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: then that kind of comes apart when they're like, wait,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Are you serious, you really don't want to have kids?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: And they're like, no, I really don't. The conversation of adoption.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: For me, I've always said I would most likely adopt
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: over having my own child. Then again, of course I'm
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: seeing these issues of adoptions in general, like kind of
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the sad you know, implications for that child in general,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: what is happening, who is being adopted, who's not being adopted,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: who's being sold, who's being taken from families? Like that's
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: a whole big other conversation to that. So that's kind
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: of changed my views on that as well. And so
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: that's again that's one of my first things, like, all right,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: you sure, because I promise you right now definitely not
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: want to have kids. And I don't know if I'll
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: ever change my mind, but you need to know not
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: now I might not, so I don't want you to
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: be discouraged. Again. I still go back and forth on
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: all of it. And like I said, one of the
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: biggest reasons that I've been really thinking about it and
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: trying to process, like, am I going to regret not
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: having children? And since quote high risk and Jerry atric
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: pregnancies are considered for women who are over thirty five,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: We're just like what what Because there is this whole
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: idea of the expiration date for us, for most people
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: with uterus is and I have to ask why his
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: nature got to be so ag just right, I mean
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: why why? Of course, and sexiest too because of men's like, yeah,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: We're gonna have babies all all the time, any times.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Of course, there are other avenues and I'm not necessarily
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: opposed to any of that, but of course there's also
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: this bit of internal misogyny of seeing my worth and
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: being able to actually birth a baby, a human. Um.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: And according to my high school best friend's grandmother when
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I showed up to show off our prom dresses, have
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: really good birthing hips. So I feel like I'm wasting
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: some things, you know what I'm saying. Um. And then
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and again it's not just me and I know this,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: and there's so many articles, but the term voluntary childlessness
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: has been around since the seventies, and just in case
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: you were wondering of the term childlessness, and voluntary childlessness
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: is the accomplishing the goal of remaining child free, whether
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: through a process of going through surgery to prevent having
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: a child, whether having I U D. Plug you up,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: thank you very much, I U D s. And the
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: factors are vast um and they could include age, income,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: marriage or unmarried status, and higher education. And there's a
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: lot of conversations on why or who or when for
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: the lack of like all of the questions of why
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: someone may choose. And as in fact, there have been,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: like I said, a lot of articles giving advice op
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: eds about people deciding and why they decided to not
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: have children. And then, as in fact, one study and
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: conducted in eighteen, some of the reasons that they talked
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: about that we will continue to talk about. Of nearly
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: two thousand people that were surveyed from ages twenty to forty,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: five of survey respondents said they didn't want children or
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: we're not sure about becoming parents because they wanted more
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: leisure time. And I think the pandemic has been a
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: bright spotlight on and obvious to who has children and
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: who doesn't like it's it's very like, oh, the struggles
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: are here and here and here, and the things that
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: have been elevated to that conversation said they haven't found
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: a partner to raise children with. And then thirty one
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: talked about the fact that they cannot afford childcare. So
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: there's definitely a lot of reasons why we might not
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: be one children right now. Yeah, And that's one of
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the things that makes me really angry when and this
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: happens in any generation. I Am not saying that it's
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: just millennials getting attacked, but when people are like millennials
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: aren't having children, they're so selfish why and it's like
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: we can't afford it. We're thinking about the child that
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: we're like, well, we can't afford to raise a kid.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: And there's a lot of reasons why that is right
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: until we fix those things then, yeah, and that was
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: something I definitely take into account to of like the
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: stress of financially providing for a child. And the CDC
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: has just reported as of the u S birth and
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: fertility rates have made a record breaking low since nineteen
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: seventy nine. It's been declining for the last six years
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and as the decline of the birth rate doubled from
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: the year before. And here are some specific stats according
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: to the survey. Directly from the report, teen birth rates
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: that dropped considerably, with birth to fifteen to seventeen year
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: olds following by six percent. And to eighteen and nineteen
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: year olds following by seven percent, both hitting record blows.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Birth rates among women ages twenty to twenty four and
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: twenty to twenty nine by six percent and four percent, respectively,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: both to record blows. Birth Rates fell by four percent
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: and two percent respectively among women ages thirty to thirty
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: four and thirty five to thirty nine, but did not
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: reach record lows according to CDC data. Right, and so
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: some of this bigger conversation about why aren't teens having
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: more babies or having less babies? Maybe they have access
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: to birth control now, and maybe they have access to
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: abortion if need be, better sex education, maybe more openness.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. If social media has helped a little bit.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know, because now you can find a lot
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: more information online as where when I was a kid,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: maybe not. You know, and I was like fifteen years old.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: We had the internet, but we didn't go there often
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and we shared it with our parents and therefore we
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: definitely they didn't look at it. Didn't really have any
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: access to cell phones because you know, we had car phones.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Then girlfriend had a car phone. And I'm talking about
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: that giant bag people carried out that plugged into the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: cigarette lighter, still my favorite thing. We had those, but
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a little computers essentially in our hands. So
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: that says a lot, and I'm really sad that people
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: are trying to go backwards. Hello. Birth rates from women
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: ages forty to forty four my age range, fell by
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: two from twenty nineteen, but birth rates for women forty
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: five and up remain unchanged. And again it maybe partially
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: because it's harder to get printed, less likely to get
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: printed at that time, I don't know. And also the
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: number of births declined three for Hispanic when men and
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: four percent for white and black women from tween nineteen twenty. Again,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: these are directly from the report by the CDC. So yeah,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: things are changing. Things have changed, yes, yes, And there
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: are many reasons for the declines. Some speculate that it's
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: due to the pandemic, though not much data has been
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: collected to support that. Other experts say that it's the
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: lack of vital resources like housing and food among those
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: demographics with correlations between their eyes and unemployment rates and
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: the decline in birth rates. I will say recently there's
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: been another survey and I haven't looked into it enough
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: to like judge how authentic or scientifically accurate it is,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: but that millennials are having less sex and uh, I
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: have a friend who said, until like I can access
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: abortion easily, the gates are closed. Like, so I do
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: think that's a part of it too, is um as
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: we're seeing this rolling back or real pushback against abortion,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: women are thinking, well, then I guess I won't be
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: engaging sex. That's just my theory. I don't know. I
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: think a lot of it is also calling out the
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: misogyny and see the nastiness of the power play that's
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: been happening when it comes to toxic masculinity, and I
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: think that has something to do with it as well.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And we talked a little bit about the fact that
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: people weren't meeting up during pandemics. Uh, they weren't just
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: coming out anymore and hooking up with people, which you
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: do what you want, but for the sake of not
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: spreading COVID, So that could have something to do with it.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Who knows. Of course, when people who were able to
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: be pregnant but who's not two were asked, some stated
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that the mere fact society is not demanding or expecting
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: them to have children as much has kind of taken
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: off so of that pressure to have children. And for me, yeah,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: my mother has finally stopped asking me about having kids
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: or getting married after seeing how bad marriages can ruin
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: families and can cause so much damage. So I've definitely
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: seen and we've all seen it, and maybe we have
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: been a part of this family. Let us be honest
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: where they're trying to save a marriage by having a child,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and oh, that's not as helpful as you think it is,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't work typically, and I think it's finally
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: gotten to the point that people are like, I figured out,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: we don't want to be together, not gonna try to
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: have a baby to save anything, because it's fine, We're fine.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: And for those who have gone through these messy divorces
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: with children, which is what I'm talking about, they're like, ah,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: maybe this was not a great idea now that they
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: regret having children. But of course there are some reports
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: that they're more like people are more likely to regret
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: having children. I don't know. I didn't look too deeply
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: into that. That could be a whole other episode. But
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: having that being a part of that mess, it just
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is so heartbreaking. In general, and I'm sure because we
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: have been children, uh seeing really ugly divorces as it
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: has become a steady incline at one point in time,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of even doubt where it's like, uh,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: but we have noticed. Yeah, maybe it's not a bad
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: thing to not have children because things seem less messier,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: not always, And I think for my mother, who for
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: so long would get into a sweeping match with me
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: every Christmas about why I didn't have children and that
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I was going to die alone and no one was
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: going to take care of me, made sure to tell
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: me that and then gave me an example of my
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: spinster great aunt, who she said died alone, which is
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: not true because her brother lived with her as well
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: as other family members. So I'm not really sure what
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: she was talking about, um, but the fact that that
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: has completely washed away after seeing divorces happened within my family,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and so that is one of the things, like I
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: agree because of that, I have not had any pressure
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: from anyone. Yeah, I feel like my dad kind of
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: pushed push drink for it, as I've talked about, But
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I'm and I like a couple of weeks to go
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: out of a conversation where it was very clear to
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: me that she's not expecting anything, and I was like,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: this is nice. It's like there's no part of her.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like a judgmental thing or it was just like, yeah,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like the path you're going down, and
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: that's cool, cool, thank you. Okay. Some other reasons for
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: all of this. Women are choosing careers in higher education
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: over the high cost of raising children. And though the
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: numbers of women having children in life hasn't changed too
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: much percentage wise, the number of births have decreased by
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: at least five hundred thousand from two thousand seven to seventeen. Monetarily,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: it is estimated that raising a child costs about two
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: hundred and thirty three thousand, six hundred ten dollars, and
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: that's not including college tuition, because yeah, I would have
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: guessed way higher. I calculated this out at one point
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: and I was like a million something And that's where
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I was very young when I was doing this, and
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I can't four a child. Well, also,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: you've got to remember this is one child exactly. This
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: is based on a median line. Because we know that
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: economic status is different for everyone, and therefore those who
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: are doing without are just trying to make do. So
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: who knows if they're getting everything they need to the
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: amount of kids that are in the foster care system
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: that get very little. In fact, there's a whole lot
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: of things. But that is the average. And again in
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: the US, we know that the income statistics and income
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: variations are huge. The gaps are huge, and I think
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: we need to account for that. So we could have
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: people who are making literally twelve thousand and that's a
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: minimum wage job to people making billions, and so we're
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: putting those in the line. So that's really not fair calculation.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: And who's spending what on what? Of course, if you're
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: trying to buy kids education, like buy a kids acceptance
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: by giving millions of dollars to a specific school because
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: your kids is not smart enough to get accepted whatever,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: that's not accounting for you either, So we'll leave that
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: one alone. But yeah, for me specifically, my adoption costs
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: about believe, I can't quite remember. I came in at
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: seven everything, I bought my own car, started working at fourteen,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: and I paid for my own school. I paid for
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: everything after school, like all of that. The only thing
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't pay for was car insurance until I was
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: twenty one, and then after that I was on my own.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: So definitely a lot to consider and who's giving what.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: But and again I think within the millennials, because I
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: need people to stop using the term geriatric because again annoying,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: but technically they said I'm geriatric. Millennial whoever said that,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I don't like you because in that generation of earning
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: your own, like income to get yourself into school, things
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: like grants that help people get into school or if
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: you're in UK, which oh look post education is free
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and it should be, but okay, stuff like that, you
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: start considering the different amounts of money that you have
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to say for your kids. Other reasons can be as
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: simple slash obligated, such as mental health and past trauma.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And you just kind of talked about it, and I've
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: talked about it before, and we've heard from people from
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: our listeners specifically, like when we talked about preentification of
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: not wanting children or fear having children, and honestly, I'm
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: in that category as well as so much past trauma,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: so much collective trauma, and for me, so much work trauma.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: So I've seen the makeup of really bad families and
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: us seeing the horridness of addiction and families and being
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: inable to actually afford and get help. Not being able
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to afford child care has been a reason to remove children,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: which is absurd and makes me angry. And I didn't.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I didn't, But it's a complicated system, and the expectations
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: placed on specifically women or those who have uterus is
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: in general, to care for their children without any assistance
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: or barely any assistance is absurd in itself and it
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: already puts them up to fail. And for me, seeing
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: that I know I have the support system, but the
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: overall idea of just no, no, no, I'm good, I'm good,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: and growing up with my past trauma, the fear of
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: what I will do to my own kids, whether it's
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I'm overly you know, too needy, or too you know,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: all of these things, which is why I have a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: dog that I'm too needy with. And honestly, as a nanny,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I felt like I was raising my own like I
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: was raising kids already, and I'm sure I got paid
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: for it, but I literally raised kids for four to
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: five years. I had one that was two to six
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: when I had taken care of them, and not that
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the parents weren't present. The mother was absolutely present. She
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: just needs a lot of help. And I ended up
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: being authoritarian, the disciplinarian, like the schedule keeper. It was interesting,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I feel like I've already raised it. So
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, du I want to do that on my own? Yeah.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like for a period of time I raised
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: my little brother and now it's like interesting through therapy
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: where now I'm like having guilt resurface of like did
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I do a good job raising him? It's like, well,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: where'd you? Should you have been raising him? I don't know,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, that's been one of the things I
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: think about too, is I'm not sure I did a
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: good job. So I was a child, but still, so
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: what do we do with this regret? There are so
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: many articles that are out there to help and encourage
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: our decisions, meaning allow us to feel that the decision
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: we are making is okay and acceptable for us. So
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: one thing is trust that decision you're making its best
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: for you. Try to separate what you want versus what
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: society tells you what you want. And yeah, also it's
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: okay to change your mind and not always be sure.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I am going back and forth with it,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: having deep conversations with people, current partner, all of that,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: just trying to figure out, Hey, it's happening. And I
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: would and visit a couple who are friends of mine.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I've been friends with him very long time. They just
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: had their first child not too long ago. She is
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: a little older than myself, and I talked about it
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: with her. I was like, how is your was there
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: any complications, how do you feel about all of this?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: What did you think? And how do you feel? And
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the baby is adorable by the way, And I did
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: again had that moment of like, I've only got a
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: couple of more years, Oh no, what I need to do?
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: And it is it's it's a hard decision, and I
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: still have a back and forth. And I think again
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: part of that as society slowly backing off and realizing
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: this is not this is not up to us. We
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: don't we really don't have any say so on what
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: a family or looks like anymore, and we really shouldn't
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: dictate that. Um And of course, yeah, we need to
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: have a larger conversation about the language of pregnancy in general.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I'm still mad about this geriatric pregnancy thing, by the way,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: And again, the conversation of choice of those who choose
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: to have children, that's wonderful. Those who choose not to
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: have children, that's wonderful too. As one listener reminded us
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: as she talked about her own child and having to
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: go through all the hardships and being able to have
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a child and then being told that, oh, you just
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: had a pandemic baby, and she's like, that's insulting. That's
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: not what happened. This was something that they've been hoping for,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: wanting and they finally got and are so excited. But
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: to have it dismissed like that is really insulting. And yeah,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: we need to talk about that. This is a private decision,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: whatever it might be, and it is something private, and
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: it can be heartbreaking either way, whether it's they involuntarily
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: we're childless and they really wanted and it just didn't happen.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of heart right to that, to those
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: who are voluntarily wanting to be childless, and there's a
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: lot of reasons for that. There's a lot of trauma
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: behind that. These are private matters that need to be
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: allowed to be private. And also let's let's talk about
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: this as you don't have any questions to ask. Don't
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: ask when they're gonna get pregnant, don't ask when you're
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: having a baby. Let's just not let's just throw that
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: all out the window. It's not a conversation starter. If
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: we didn't bring it up, as in those who have utters,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: then you have no business in asking. Yeah. Period. Yeah, Yeah,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: there are so many avenues we could discuss here, because
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: definitely I think that whole perfect mother image is at play,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and a lot of this because I'm pretty confident in
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: my own decision, but I think at some time I
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: was the fear of living up to that was what
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: was the main decider, and as we've discussed, it's like
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: impossible to live up to that r and um. So yeah, yeah,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: there's so much we could untangle here, and I'm sure
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: we will in the future. In the meantime, Listeners, if
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you'd like to contact us, you can or emails Stuffy
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Da Mom Stuff That I Hurt Media dot com. You
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: on Instagram and stuff I Never told to you. Thanks
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: as always to our superproducer Christina, thank you, Thanks to
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: you for listening. Stephane Never told you his production of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: VI is the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcast or ready
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows