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Worst news about 4 missing men, teen girl shoots mom · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: M Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x M
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Speaker 1: Triumph Channel one two. The body of one of four
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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania men missing since last week has been found. We
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Speaker 1: have found the human remains in an approximately twelve and
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Speaker 1: a half foot common grave. We can now identify the Pinocchiaro,
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Speaker 1: nineteen years old as one of the people found buried
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Speaker 1: in that grade. He and three other men went missing
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Speaker 1: within miles of each other over the course of several
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Speaker 1: days last week. This is a homicide. Make no mistake about.
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Speaker 1: There are additional human remains inside that grave, So this
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Speaker 1: painstaking process will go on. We're not done yet. We
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Speaker 1: all knew in the middle of the night when a
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Speaker 1: late night press conference is called that it couldn't be good.
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Speaker 1: We we knew. I'm Matt Wintrow, Bucks County District Attorney.
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Speaker 1: I'm here to make an announcement about a significant development
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Speaker 1: in the investigation that you've all been following so patiently,
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Speaker 1: so diligently. We have found human remains in an approximately
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Speaker 1: twelve and a half foot deep common grave that we
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Speaker 1: have painstakingly dug with a lot of care so as
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Speaker 1: not to damage any potential evidence. And I'm very, very
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Speaker 1: sad to say that we can now identify Deem Finocchio,
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Speaker 1: nineteen years old of Middletown as one of the people
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Speaker 1: that was found buried in that grave. He's been missing
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Speaker 1: since Friday. We notified his family that we have recovered
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Speaker 1: his body. There are additional human remains inside that grave,
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Speaker 1: so this painstaking process will go on. We're not done yet.
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Speaker 1: This is a homicide, make no mistake about it. We
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Speaker 1: just don't know how many homicides. We are yet to
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Speaker 1: know the answer to that question. And I want to
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Speaker 1: let you know that we reiterated over and over again,
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Speaker 1: and it goes to say one more time to the
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Speaker 1: families that we're strong, and we're gonna remain strong, and
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Speaker 1: we're going to see this investigation to the end. We're
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Speaker 1: gonna bring each and every one of these lost boys
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Speaker 1: home to their families, one way or another, and we
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Speaker 1: will not rest until we do that. I will take
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Speaker 1: a few questions and then I'll see you tomorrow and eleven.
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Speaker 1: I can't comment on the type of homicide that it
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Speaker 1: is at this point, but I am comfortable classifying as homicide. Dan,
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Speaker 1: do you have enough to pilot one I've learned to
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Speaker 1: tell at least for the Monday. That is something that
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Speaker 1: we're going to look at very very closely. I feel
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Speaker 1: that we bought ourselves a little bit of time in
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Speaker 1: charging uh Mr DeNardo with the stolen car case today
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Speaker 1: and getting that five million dollar bail. Uh. It is
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Speaker 1: my hope that he does not post that, but that's
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Speaker 1: his prerogative of course, if he could post it. But
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Speaker 1: we're going to start looking seriously at the homicide charges,
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Speaker 1: and in fact, we already have pursued that option. We
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Speaker 1: hoped for the best, but a sence of foreboding hung.
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Speaker 1: In the late nine hours, we now know that one
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Speaker 1: of four missing young Bucks County boys body has been found.
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Speaker 1: Intriguing it is stated by authorities that one body has
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Speaker 1: been found among quote multiple bodies and a twelve and
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Speaker 1: a half foot deep grave at a five million dollar farm.
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Speaker 1: The family of this young boy, Dean Vinegario, just devastated.
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Speaker 1: Our prayers and thoughts out to those families now joining
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Speaker 1: me right now, special guests from Bucks County. Jamie Stover
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Speaker 1: from w f m Z TV, please tell us what happened.
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Speaker 1: So it was just several hours um after the person
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Speaker 1: of interest in this whole case was rearrested h on
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Speaker 1: a charge that had directly uh connected him to these
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Speaker 1: four individuals that the district attorney uh alerted the price
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Speaker 1: that he mean the the the car charge, Yes, directly
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Speaker 1: connecting him to to one of the four men that
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Speaker 1: had gone missing. Let's catch that back up, James, Sure,
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Speaker 1: Um what what? What I learned in the evening yesterday
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Speaker 1: is that the heir to this vast real estate. UM,
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Speaker 1: I don't even know what to call it, because there's
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Speaker 1: a five million dollar farm, there are multiple property holdings,
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Speaker 1: there are homes scattered around, but the area from what
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Speaker 1: we've been told, and he DeNardo Cosmo di Nardo is
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Speaker 1: the heir to all that. He had been under suspicion unspoken,
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Speaker 1: and he had first been arrested on a gun charge
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Speaker 1: regarding a twenty gauge Savage Arms shotgun and ammo that
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Speaker 1: had been found months ago. It had been dropped, then
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Speaker 1: they revived it re arrested him, which in my mind
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Speaker 1: was just a pretense to get him behind bars. If
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Speaker 1: you talked about where these four boys are, then he
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Speaker 1: gets a million dollar bond. That's a big clue that
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Speaker 1: they suspect him of more than just one shotgun possession.
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Speaker 1: And from what I've been told to the anger or
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Speaker 1: the irritation of the d A, and I don't blame him.
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Speaker 1: DeNardo makes a million dollar bond. Then they discover that
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Speaker 1: he has tried to sell DeNardo has tried to sell
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Speaker 1: one of the Missing Boys cars and in the car
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Speaker 1: telling Lee is the boys, the Missing Boys diabetic kit
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Speaker 1: he has to have with him. So you've got Cosmo
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Speaker 1: DeNardo trying to hawk the car of a missing boy
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Speaker 1: and that just blew everything wide open. Okay, take it on, Jamie.
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Speaker 1: So so from there, just hours after you know, that
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Speaker 1: came down, it was the first time we finally heard
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Speaker 1: anything or got any clues as to what exactly it
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Speaker 1: was about Gernardo that raised alarm with investigators. Hours after that,
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Speaker 1: hours after he's put back into jail on this now
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Speaker 1: five million dollars bail, uh, the district attorney calls this
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Speaker 1: midnight news conference for a major update, and of course
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Speaker 1: everyone's wondering at that point, you know, what are we
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Speaker 1: going to hear? What are we going to learn? Um?
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Speaker 1: And the district attorney didn't didn't spend a whole lot
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Speaker 1: of time up there, but he didn't have to um
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Speaker 1: because he had some pretty bombshell news um in which
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Speaker 1: he announced that they found a twelve and a half
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Speaker 1: foot deep common grave uh that that he claims they
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Speaker 1: have been slowly trying to uncover to to try not
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Speaker 1: to disturb any of this evidence. Uh And he did
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Speaker 1: say that there were multiple human remains and in that
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Speaker 1: in that grave on um a DiNardo family farm where
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Speaker 1: they've been searching for days um and and at this
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Speaker 1: point they have been able to identify one of them,
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Speaker 1: and it is in fact one of those young men
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Speaker 1: who have been who have been missing since last week,
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Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen year old Dean Finocciario uh and and and
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Speaker 1: the district attorney UH made no hesitation about it to
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Speaker 1: say that they are investigating this as a homicide. The
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Speaker 1: question though, is, uh, you know how many homicides are there,
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Speaker 1: um and and and what was the nature of these homicide?
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Speaker 1: We we don't know how this how this young man
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Speaker 1: was killed. The district attorney chose not to UM dive
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Speaker 1: into that if if they in fact know that answer
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Speaker 1: at this point, that is something we we are of
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Speaker 1: course going to the right now. When they say multiple bodies,
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Speaker 1: they don't we don't know if they're just the four
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Speaker 1: missing boys. If all four missing boys are in this
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Speaker 1: so called common grave, that's a nice way of putting
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Speaker 1: in a common grave. It's a mass grave. There are
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Speaker 1: many bodies in there. Under the law, more than one
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Speaker 1: body equals mass as in mass killing. It leads me
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Speaker 1: to think that there are more homicide victims in that
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Speaker 1: so called common grave. Mass grave authorities are in the process,
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Speaker 1: as Jamie Stover from w f m Z TV is
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Speaker 1: telling us of identifying further remains which were found by
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Speaker 1: the use of cadaver dogs that they had deployed in
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Speaker 1: the search of this property belonging to DiNardo's family and
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Speaker 1: according to a friend of Mayo, one of the missing boys,
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Speaker 1: Denardos sold guns and marijuana and in the past has
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Speaker 1: bragged about killing somebody over some money. And I found
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Speaker 1: another connection. We have said in the past that DiNardo
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Speaker 1: was the Facebook friend of one of the missing boys,
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Speaker 1: Patrick Um. Jamie advised us they both attended school together
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Speaker 1: it was Holy Ghost Prep School and been sale them.
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Speaker 1: But this almost broke my heart. We we learned that Patrick,
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Speaker 1: who had just finished his freshman year at Loyola in Baltimore,
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Speaker 1: just finished his first year of college. He and DiNardo
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Speaker 1: were both members of a public Facebook group for buying
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Speaker 1: and selling sneakers. If you look on de Nardo's flicker account,
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Speaker 1: what we believe to be his flicker account, there are
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Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty seven photos of shoes. Okay, he
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Speaker 1: had plenty of time to do that, including very expensive
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Speaker 1: air Jordan's and Nikes. UM. Interesting some of those images.
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Speaker 1: Some of those pictures of tennis shoes show bullets set
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Speaker 1: up next to the shoes. What if pennything is leading
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Speaker 1: you to believe, Jamie Stover that all four boys, all
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Speaker 1: four missing Bucks County boys, are in that mass grave. Well,
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Speaker 1: we don't have any confirmation of that. UM. The only
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Speaker 1: connection there is that they've been looking for four young men.
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Speaker 1: They've been looking for four young men UM on that
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Speaker 1: property UM, and they have found multiple human remains, as
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Speaker 1: the district attorney put it, and one of them UM
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Speaker 1: did match the one of the young men who was missing.
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Speaker 1: So you know, at this point it's it's a bit
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Speaker 1: of a waiting game. We don't know. The DA was asked,
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Speaker 1: were there potentially other people that we haven't been reporting
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Speaker 1: on that may have been in that grave? UM, and
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Speaker 1: the district attorney did say yesterday after a quick slip
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Speaker 1: up that they don't believe so um that they don't
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Speaker 1: believe that there are other individuals, but it's it. They
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Speaker 1: are looking into it of course. Um and and uh,
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Speaker 1: I mean that's basically where it stands. I mean they're
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Speaker 1: saying they don't know how many bodies are in this
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Speaker 1: mass grade. Now, this family began to a mass a
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Speaker 1: commercial and residential real estate holding empire thanks to Cosmo
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Speaker 1: di Nardo's late a grandfather. He started buying real estate
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Speaker 1: all the way back in the seventies. They have family
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Speaker 1: properties in Philadelphia. They have a multi unit apartment building,
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Speaker 1: another building least to a nonprofit organization. There is a
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Speaker 1: home and Ben Salem, where his grandson, Cosmo di Nardo
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Speaker 1: was twice arrested this week. What more do we know about? Well,
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Speaker 1: hold on, that's not even the end. Um. Denardo's dad
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Speaker 1: also purchased commercial properties in Montgomery. There's a strip of storefronts. Um,
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Speaker 1: it goes on and on, and they use this main
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Speaker 1: family residence where they control their business empire. There's a
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Speaker 1: Philadelphia home. Um for more properties in Philadelphia to in
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Speaker 1: Ben Salem. My point is this is a really rich
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Speaker 1: family probably never would have suspected anything like this going
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Speaker 1: on on their property. And I just wonder how the
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Speaker 1: parents I didn't know something odd was going on. Well
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Speaker 1: that the district attorney is um hoping to speak to them, UM.
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Speaker 1: And yesterday the DiNardo family UH their their attorney that
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Speaker 1: they've retained UH did really statements saying that they are UM,
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Speaker 1: they are cooperating. But the district attorney did say in
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Speaker 1: one of his news conferences yesterday that it could really
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Speaker 1: uh used uh anyone really to help them out um
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Speaker 1: with this investigation. Although it is clear that the district
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Speaker 1: attorney does believe that you spoke a little bit about
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Speaker 1: family finances, that the family could afford to bail him
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Speaker 1: out again, um, even given that DiNardo on that car
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Speaker 1: charge of stolen car charge. The judge set his bail
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Speaker 1: at five million dollars straight and the district attorney made
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Speaker 1: a point in the courtroom to say that he believes
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Speaker 1: that the family probably could afford to cover that five
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Speaker 1: million dollars to to get DeNardo out of prison. That
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Speaker 1: has not happened at this point. UM. The district attorney
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Speaker 1: UH said last night that they had hoped that this
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Speaker 1: made buy them some time. Um, you know, not really
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Speaker 1: entirely sure what that means. There have been no homicide
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Speaker 1: charges filed against anyone at this point, but that the
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Speaker 1: d A is working toward that. Whether or not, um
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Speaker 1: you know, what kind of time they think they need
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Speaker 1: for that remains to be seen. But what do we
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Speaker 1: know about the grand jury proceedings in that jurisdiction. In
15:14
Speaker 1: a lot of large jurisdictions, for instance, the one where
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Speaker 1: I prosecuted, there was a grand jury. The same grand
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Speaker 1: jury was summoned twice a week. As I recall, it
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Speaker 1: was Tuesday and Thursday, and they would start early in
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Speaker 1: the morning, early early, like seven thirty eight o'clock. We
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Speaker 1: would start presenting to the grand jury, and it would
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Speaker 1: go past lunchtime or later if they had to, and
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Speaker 1: then they reconvene on Thursday, and there would be around
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Speaker 1: hundred fifty cases to two hundred cases and dieted each day,
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Speaker 1: which would be four hundred cases at least a week essentially,
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Speaker 1: and we would have multiple prosecutors presenting to the grand jury.
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Speaker 1: It only takes typically one witness to present a case
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Speaker 1: to a grand jury, because hearsay is allowed at a
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Speaker 1: grand jury proceeding. It's not an issue of guilt or innocence.
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Speaker 1: It's simply is there enough evidence for this case to
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Speaker 1: go to a jury to determine. So one witness can
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Speaker 1: come in i e. The lead investigator and state what
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Speaker 1: has been found so far, including heresay, and the grand
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Speaker 1: jury decides they simply do ya or nay? Build true
16:31
Speaker 1: bill or no bill. True Bill goes on to a
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Speaker 1: Pettit jury, a jury of twelve. No Bill, It's over,
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Speaker 1: It's dropped. We also were learning, as we now know,
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Speaker 1: human remains found on the DeNardo estate, reports that his
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Speaker 1: parents are facing a grand jury on Thursday. This is
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Speaker 1: one week after the first of four young men in
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Speaker 1: Bucks County go is missing. Reports are that Antonio and
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Speaker 1: Sandra DeNardo will face a grand jury on Thursday morning.
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Speaker 1: The grand jury investigation may help get answers in the case,
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Speaker 1: including details on Cosmo Denardo's their son's location in movements
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Speaker 1: during the week the four boys go missing. Now they've
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Speaker 1: got a great lawyer. His name is Fortunato Perry Jr.
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Speaker 1: Issued a statement saying the family sympathizes with the families
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Speaker 1: of the missing men in our cooperating m hmmm. It's
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Speaker 1: gonna be a toughie to cooperate fully when it may
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Speaker 1: cost your son life behind bars. Is there a death
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Speaker 1: penalty in Pennsylvania, Jamie, I assume death lethal injection, death
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Speaker 1: by needles. While we haven't had one actually in Pennsylvania
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Speaker 1: in a very long time, even though they do have
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Speaker 1: that sentence, it's been more than a decade since there
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Speaker 1: has actually been an execution um in Pennsylvania. Um And
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Speaker 1: and you know, and not all would would stem from
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Speaker 1: you know, that's uh getting way ahead, but that would
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Speaker 1: all depend on on whether prosecutors think that there are
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Speaker 1: aggravating circumstances here or that they could go after that
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Speaker 1: sort of sort of sentence. And at this point we're
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Speaker 1: still waiting to see of you know, if a homicide
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Speaker 1: charge comes into play, and and and who that charge
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Speaker 1: is against at this point, well, I can guarantee you this.
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Speaker 1: You know, I'm certainly no um clairvoyant, but there's going
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Speaker 1: to be a homicide charge. There will be at least
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Speaker 1: one homicide charge, because you don't just fall over by
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Speaker 1: accident into a mass grave and bury yourself. Also, what
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Speaker 1: they have been through law enforcement and finding these four
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Speaker 1: boys has been painstaking using heavy equipment to dig a
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Speaker 1: deep ditch on the property and then sifting through each
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Speaker 1: bucket of dirt by hand. That's how painstakingly they have
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Speaker 1: searched this property, searching through each bucket of dirt by hand.
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Speaker 1: Still with me, Jamie Stover from w f m Z TV,
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Speaker 1: and we were talking about the four missing Bucks County boys.
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Speaker 1: One body now discovered. Jamie, what can you tell me
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Speaker 1: about allegations the person of interest, Cosmo di Nardo, had
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Speaker 1: not just been selling sneakers online, but guns and marijuana
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Speaker 1: and even bragging about having somebody killed over money. I
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Speaker 1: can't tell you anything about that. Of course, there are
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Speaker 1: if you go on any any news site or our
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Speaker 1: social media where where the story has been tracked, UM,
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Speaker 1: you may find a thousand different theories on this. But
19:54
Speaker 1: but the reality is at this point, UM investcuators have
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Speaker 1: given no indication asian on on what exactly may have
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Speaker 1: been going on here, what may have led um what? How? Uh?
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Speaker 1: Dean Fernucciario the only one of these males who has
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Speaker 1: um been located. Of course, as we mentioned, um found
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Speaker 1: found dead. We don't know how we got to that property.
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Speaker 1: We don't know why, we don't know the extent of
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Speaker 1: that relationship. These are all the details that we're still
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Speaker 1: waiting for prosecutors to answer, um as as we try
20:28
Speaker 1: to understand really what happened in this whole thing. Um.
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Speaker 1: You know, how how how four young men and you know,
20:35
Speaker 1: all around the same age, and four from parts of
20:37
Speaker 1: the county go missing. Well, it's amazing to me if
20:40
Speaker 1: this is true, that he had been selling marijuana and
20:44
Speaker 1: guns and he was already under some type of provi
20:48
Speaker 1: provisor not to have that weapon, the Savage Arms twenty
20:52
Speaker 1: gage and the mm O that had to be a
20:55
Speaker 1: place for a reason that he was still at it.
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Speaker 1: If these allegations are true, Jamie, what do we know
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Speaker 1: about the four boys themselves? I know one was a
21:06
Speaker 1: freshman at Loyola and upcoming sophomore. What else do we know? Well,
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Speaker 1: we know Thomas Mio, the young man whom whose car
21:16
Speaker 1: was found on the DiNardo property. I've heard him described
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Speaker 1: as as nothing but a good kid. Um. And and
21:24
Speaker 1: that goes from from family, Uh, that goes to two friends,
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Speaker 1: UM and his best friend, UM Mark Sturgis, who is
21:34
Speaker 1: also one of the four young missing men. UM was
21:39
Speaker 1: his best friend. They worked together for Sturgis's dad's construction company.
21:43
Speaker 1: In fact, that is the last time that they were
21:47
Speaker 1: seen together. It was the Sturgis family understanding that their
21:52
Speaker 1: son was going to be meeting with his best friend,
21:54
Speaker 1: which wouldn't seem out of the ordinary to um for
21:59
Speaker 1: for a young for a young man do to want
22:01
Speaker 1: to hang out with his friend. But what stuck out
22:03
Speaker 1: to them is when when their son's car after he
22:07
Speaker 1: went missing, turned up at a at a shopping centers.
22:09
Speaker 1: As you and I spoke yesterday, that wouldn't really scream
22:14
Speaker 1: young young man in his twenties. It's just not that
22:17
Speaker 1: uh kind of environment um most likely. But really we've
22:22
Speaker 1: heard nothing but good thing again. I saw all the
22:24
Speaker 1: pictures look like middle aged ladies walking around in a
22:27
Speaker 1: Talbot's outfit. That's what it looked like. You know, one
22:30
Speaker 1: of those Yankee candles shop type centers where they have,
22:35
Speaker 1: you know, stuff you'd sit around on your your coffee
22:39
Speaker 1: table or on a shelf, upscale shopping for do dad's.
22:45
Speaker 1: I guess you'd say it's what it looked like. Maybe
22:48
Speaker 1: very very touristy and very very upscale. Just didn't make
22:52
Speaker 1: sense to me. So I know that one of them
22:56
Speaker 1: went to Loyola. I know that Um, some of them
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Speaker 1: were friends. We don't know how one third one, one
23:06
Speaker 1: fourth one was actually connected. Now what do we know
23:10
Speaker 1: about one of them? Mayo, being a talented wrestler, had
23:15
Speaker 1: been friends since uh grade school with some of the
23:20
Speaker 1: missing boys, but graduated from Ben Salem High School. Described
23:25
Speaker 1: as good hearted, hard working, a great athlete. I mean
23:30
Speaker 1: it just goes on from there. It sounds like these
23:33
Speaker 1: four missing boys, we're just scrubbed in sunshine. I don't
23:38
Speaker 1: know how they got mixed up in all of this.
23:41
Speaker 1: And that's what everyone's wondering is, you know what is UM?
23:45
Speaker 1: And that's been a question from the beginning that I think,
23:48
Speaker 1: you know, the community is still uh waiting to hear
23:51
Speaker 1: that hear that answer on on how exactly UM did
23:56
Speaker 1: this all unfold? Were their conversations leading up to this
23:59
Speaker 1: and other thing? Jamie, I don't understand why there's any bond,
24:04
Speaker 1: any bond at all. Do you have to grant bond
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Speaker 1: on a murder charge in that jurisdiction? I mean, he
24:10
Speaker 1: made bond on a million dollars. His parents have millions
24:14
Speaker 1: at their fingertips, apparently with all all their holdings, so
24:19
Speaker 1: it seems like almost no matter what bond they're gonna
24:22
Speaker 1: give di Nardo, he's going to make it. They only
24:25
Speaker 1: have to put up ten of the bond, so not
24:29
Speaker 1: only is it cash, but they could use collateral h
24:33
Speaker 1: such as you know, sign over their house note that
24:36
Speaker 1: equals the bond steak. So no matter what they put
24:41
Speaker 1: in as a bond amount on murder, this family can
24:44
Speaker 1: probably make it. Is there any possibility of no bond
24:49
Speaker 1: that that's my curiosity right now? Why does he have
24:52
Speaker 1: to get out? And it is my understanding in Pennsylvania
24:56
Speaker 1: from all that I've ever seen. UM and obviously an
25:00
Speaker 1: attorney would probably the best to ask that question too,
25:03
Speaker 1: But it's my understanding that homicide charge is the only
25:08
Speaker 1: charge in which a judge could set no bail. But
25:11
Speaker 1: that was a big, big point of Uh. I think
25:15
Speaker 1: you're right because that's true in many jurisdictions there can
25:19
Speaker 1: be no bond and for many reasons. A that he
25:24
Speaker 1: could be a flight risk. With a passport and money,
25:26
Speaker 1: he could be gone if in fact, he has been
25:29
Speaker 1: selling marijuana. Uh, if he has been bragging about other deaths,
25:35
Speaker 1: then he's not only a flight risk, but he's a
25:38
Speaker 1: danger to the community. We also know that he's allegedly
25:42
Speaker 1: had mental issues that makes him a danger to himself.
25:46
Speaker 1: So there are many reasons he should not get bond.
25:51
Speaker 1: And this is what's so scary right now to parents
25:55
Speaker 1: all over the country hearing this. He couldn't ask for
25:58
Speaker 1: four better boys than these boys that have gone missing.
26:02
Speaker 1: Now one we know dead. You never know who your
26:08
Speaker 1: children are coming in contact with, who their families really are,
26:12
Speaker 1: who they really are on something as tenuous as a
26:17
Speaker 1: sneaker exchange Facebook group. It's just it's very, very scary
26:24
Speaker 1: to me as a parent. We are bringing you the
26:27
Speaker 1: very latest here on crime stories and joining me Jamie
26:31
Speaker 1: Jamie Stover from w f m Z TV. Jamie is
26:35
Speaker 1: headed out right now for more on this. Jamie. Thank
26:39
Speaker 1: you so much for being with us, friend, and thank
26:41
Speaker 1: you for having me. We are expecting more from authorities
26:45
Speaker 1: as they continue to search, but at this hour, our
26:50
Speaker 1: thoughts and prayers with the families of these four boys,
26:56
Speaker 1: the Bucks County Boys. Thank you again for being with us.
27:01
Speaker 1: Mother Anna Schroeder comes home from work to her Morris
27:05
Speaker 1: and Illinois home to see her daughter Anna, who was
27:08
Speaker 1: waiting on her, or so she thought, but instead of
27:12
Speaker 1: meeting her loving daughter at the door. Mom Peggy has
27:17
Speaker 1: a towel thrown over her face and then she is
27:21
Speaker 1: shot in the head in her own living room. After that,
27:26
Speaker 1: the home was burned down in an effort to cover
27:31
Speaker 1: up the crime. I'm Nancy, Grace, this is crime stories.
27:35
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. But now her little girl,
27:40
Speaker 1: what has become of Anna Schroder. She's charged with murder.
27:46
Speaker 1: That's what's happened to Anna Schroeder, the little girl that
27:49
Speaker 1: mommy rushed home from work to see. Yes, according to prosecutors,
27:54
Speaker 1: it was little Anna, mommy's little girl, that covered her
27:59
Speaker 1: own mother's face with a towel before shooting her dead.
28:04
Speaker 1: I'm I'm overwhelmed, you know. I think of all the
28:07
Speaker 1: times I race, race, I nearly kill myself, trying to
28:12
Speaker 1: get home to the twins, trying to get the twins
28:14
Speaker 1: to school, trying to get there to pick them up
28:17
Speaker 1: on time, trying to get them to soccer or to piano,
28:19
Speaker 1: to Oh. It's a constant race to do everything for
28:23
Speaker 1: your children, to be that mom in the Hallmark movie
28:27
Speaker 1: and the Hallmark card, that perfect mom, that perfect family.
28:31
Speaker 1: And that's what Peggy Schroeder was trying to do racing
28:35
Speaker 1: home to get dinner ready for her little girl. She's dead.
28:40
Speaker 1: Joining me right now is a very special guest, a
28:43
Speaker 1: longtime friend and colleague, Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of
28:50
Speaker 1: the l A area. Bethany is so great to hear
28:55
Speaker 1: your voice, even if it's over the airwaves. Fancy, it
28:59
Speaker 1: is wonderful to be on air with you, and I'm
29:01
Speaker 1: feel so privileged to be talking about this story. It's
29:04
Speaker 1: it's horrific, but I'm glad we're going to be able
29:07
Speaker 1: to get into the details. You know, matricide as it's
29:10
Speaker 1: called or parenticide, which is slang, a slang term for
29:14
Speaker 1: when a child kills a parent is extremely rare. Less
29:19
Speaker 1: than one percent of all murders are killing your mother,
29:26
Speaker 1: less than one percent. But there's really no doubt in
29:31
Speaker 1: my mind that Little Anna did this thing, because she
29:35
Speaker 1: then texts to her friend Rachel Helm that she her
29:41
Speaker 1: mom is dead, and the little friend doesn't believe it,
29:45
Speaker 1: and she Little Anna, the daughter, texts a photo of
29:51
Speaker 1: her mother dead to the friend Rachel, and I don't
29:56
Speaker 1: know what's going on in Rachel's head, but then she
29:58
Speaker 1: rushes over to her friend's house to try to dispose
30:01
Speaker 1: of the body, and when they can't figure out what
30:03
Speaker 1: to do, they burned the house down. You know, in
30:06
Speaker 1: every case I ever tried Dr Bethany, there would always
30:10
Speaker 1: be one fact that just tore my heart up, or
30:13
Speaker 1: or made me them angriest, or made me sick to
30:16
Speaker 1: my stomach. I remember I noticed it the first time
30:18
Speaker 1: when I was prosecuting a carjack case. It was my
30:21
Speaker 1: first carjack murder. And what got me threw me over
30:26
Speaker 1: the edge. I had to leave the courtroom. By the way.
30:28
Speaker 1: I didn't let the jury see that I was upset.
30:31
Speaker 1: I had them excused and I left for just a
30:32
Speaker 1: moment to compose myself. Was this fact a young guy
30:37
Speaker 1: was carjacked and murdered. People heard the gunshot and they
30:42
Speaker 1: ran out of their homes. It was a nice neighborhood,
30:45
Speaker 1: and they see the young victim lying on somebody's driveway
30:50
Speaker 1: bleeding from a head wound. Somebody rushed in and got
30:53
Speaker 1: a pillow and came out and put it under his head.
30:56
Speaker 1: I mean, he was dead and they put a pillow
31:00
Speaker 1: under his head. And that act to this day, I
31:04
Speaker 1: don't know. There's something so poignant and so evocative the
31:10
Speaker 1: human mind and the human psyche. I got a conviction,
31:13
Speaker 1: the guy went to jail for life. Okay, but that
31:16
Speaker 1: pillow the act of the neighbor. And in this case,
31:20
Speaker 1: it's a different a different emotion, Bethany, It's that the
31:25
Speaker 1: girl not only kills her mother, but thinks so little
31:29
Speaker 1: of her. She sends a Facebook picture of her mother
31:34
Speaker 1: or a text of her mother's dead, bloody body. Bethany,
31:39
Speaker 1: what what helped me? Well? And there's even more Nancy.
31:42
Speaker 1: According to one report I read, Anna comes home and
31:47
Speaker 1: asks her mother to put the towel over her face
31:50
Speaker 1: before he shot. She shoots her, so I don't know
31:53
Speaker 1: she threw it over her mother's face or she asked
31:55
Speaker 1: her mother to put it over her face. And it
31:57
Speaker 1: was a clean shot into the four head. So you
32:00
Speaker 1: can imagine that this this innocent mother who actually also
32:05
Speaker 1: happened to be deaf. This is a deaf mom who
32:09
Speaker 1: had adopted Anna and an older sister of Anna's, so
32:13
Speaker 1: this is an adoptive mom. Anna asked her to put
32:15
Speaker 1: the towel over her head. There's a clean shot to
32:18
Speaker 1: the forehead. Anna calls her friend Rachel, who actually happens
32:23
Speaker 1: to also be Anna's lover. The two girls or girlfriends
32:26
Speaker 1: their lovers, and Rachel doesn't believe it at first. Anna
32:30
Speaker 1: texts a picture of her mother's bloodied body. Rachel comes
32:35
Speaker 1: over to the house, actually helped, tries to help Anna
32:38
Speaker 1: clean up the scene. They spend the night. They dragged
32:42
Speaker 1: the body into the mother's bedroom. They spend the night together,
32:46
Speaker 1: these two young lovers. He's fifteen year old, under the
32:50
Speaker 1: same roof as Peggy Schroder, the deceased mother, under the
32:54
Speaker 1: same roof as the corpse. And it's not until the
32:58
Speaker 1: next day when they realize that are never going to
33:00
Speaker 1: be able to to clean up or dispose of the remains,
33:03
Speaker 1: that they decided to burn the house down. But you
33:06
Speaker 1: were asking a little bit more about motive. You know,
33:09
Speaker 1: in about fifty percent of these cases where daughters between
33:13
Speaker 1: the ages of fifteen and seventeen killed their mothers, and
33:16
Speaker 1: of the cases, there's extreme abuse going on in the household,
33:21
Speaker 1: although I do not suspect that in this case, I
33:23
Speaker 1: don't either, No, no, And the other fifty percent of cases,
33:26
Speaker 1: what you have is something called antisocial personality disorder, where
33:31
Speaker 1: you have a daughter that has simmering rage, resentment, lack
33:35
Speaker 1: of conscience, detachment, abusive relationship towards a mother, and you
33:39
Speaker 1: actually see an escalation of violence prior, prior or leading
33:44
Speaker 1: up to the mattre side. In the cases where where
33:48
Speaker 1: the daughter has been abused, what you see is the
33:51
Speaker 1: daughter reaching out to maybe social workers, teachers, other types
33:55
Speaker 1: of people outside the house, and when when they're unsuccessful,
33:59
Speaker 1: then they'll kill the parents. But in this case you
34:01
Speaker 1: probably see the escalating pattern of violence here there is
34:05
Speaker 1: no indication that this mother, Peggy Schroeder, had been anything
34:09
Speaker 1: but loving and caring and very self sacrificing for her children,
34:15
Speaker 1: especially the daughter Anna. And then I wonder what is
34:20
Speaker 1: in what goes on in the mind of a killer when,
34:24
Speaker 1: for instance, Anna Schroeder, the daughter, posts a chilling message,
34:29
Speaker 1: a very disturbing message to me anyway, on her mother's
34:33
Speaker 1: Facebook page, telling her quote she would never forget her
34:37
Speaker 1: and she loved her. And she goes on in the
34:39
Speaker 1: post to say, quote, I don't even know if you
34:42
Speaker 1: can see me right now, but if you can, I
34:45
Speaker 1: just want you to know you were my best friend.
34:48
Speaker 1: She's evil. She's evil, She's pure evil. She's a little girl,
34:54
Speaker 1: but she is the devil Okay, Actually she looks like
34:57
Speaker 1: it too. Did you see the photos of her? And
34:59
Speaker 1: she's big, kind of doughey eyed, and her hair's dyed red.
35:03
Speaker 1: Both girls dyed their hair after the crime. They changed
35:07
Speaker 1: their hair color. What is that? I think they were
35:09
Speaker 1: they were going to escape, but then Rachel, they were good,
35:12
Speaker 1: I guess go on the lamb or or or try
35:15
Speaker 1: to you know, evade consequences. But apparently Rachel went home,
35:19
Speaker 1: told her mother. The mother drove drove Rachel straight to
35:23
Speaker 1: the police station. Rachel confessed. It was while Rachel was
35:27
Speaker 1: making the confession at the police station that Anna posted
35:32
Speaker 1: the Facebook post. That's so creepy. I mean, it really
35:36
Speaker 1: minimizes what she did to her mother. It's hard to
35:39
Speaker 1: tell if she's trying to cover up the crime. It's,
35:42
Speaker 1: you know, malingering that she's a good daughter who loves
35:45
Speaker 1: her mother. If she's minimizing it. It could even be
35:48
Speaker 1: that she's romanticizing the crime, that she's so happy that
35:52
Speaker 1: her mother's gone that she does this. Can you talk
35:55
Speaker 1: to us like a regular person. Police, don't throw a
35:59
Speaker 1: lot of psychological terms on me. Now, I'm just a
36:01
Speaker 1: j D alright, I'm just a trial lawyer, Well, what
36:04
Speaker 1: are you saying romanticize the crime? I think that after
36:07
Speaker 1: people in close family settings, after they commit homicide, alf
36:11
Speaker 1: and there's what we call a relief phase where they're
36:14
Speaker 1: actually glad that that other person is gone, that that
36:17
Speaker 1: other person is not on this earth anymore. So the
36:21
Speaker 1: Facebook post almost as like a love letter, sort of
36:24
Speaker 1: glorifying dancing on her mother's grave. Mommy, I love you,
36:29
Speaker 1: I love you. But but really what she's saying is
36:31
Speaker 1: I'm happy you're gone. The daughter of a fifty three
36:35
Speaker 1: year old mother, Peggy Schroeder, is now charged for shooting
36:40
Speaker 1: her mother in the head. The mother, Peggy, whose body
36:44
Speaker 1: was found in their burning home, home that she worked
36:47
Speaker 1: so hard to provide for her family to her daughter's
36:52
Speaker 1: She and a friend waited a day, tried to clean
36:55
Speaker 1: up the crime scene, then set the house on fire
36:58
Speaker 1: to conceal the crime of in two investigators. Now, Anna Schroeder,
37:03
Speaker 1: the team girl, lived with her mother Peggy. She's now
37:06
Speaker 1: charged with two counts, a first degree murder which I'm
37:10
Speaker 1: sure is a malice murder, and a felony murder charge.
37:13
Speaker 1: This is charging her in the alternative. That means that
37:16
Speaker 1: if you take this to a jury. Malice murder requires
37:20
Speaker 1: the jury finds some degree of premeditation for it. It
37:23
Speaker 1: can be in the blink of an eye at the time.
37:25
Speaker 1: It takes you to raise a gun and pull the trigger.
37:28
Speaker 1: That's all that's required for malice or premeditation. There is
37:32
Speaker 1: another form of first degree work called felony murder, which
37:36
Speaker 1: is very simply that a death occurs during a felony.
37:42
Speaker 1: For instance, Bethany Bethany and I go rob a bank,
37:44
Speaker 1: Bethany gets crazy and shoots a bank teller. I can
37:47
Speaker 1: be charged with felony murder because I'm committing a felony
37:51
Speaker 1: and a death occurs during the felony I'm committing. Here,
37:55
Speaker 1: it could be an aggravated assault with a weapon and
37:58
Speaker 1: a death occurred. They're just that simple. She's also charged
38:02
Speaker 1: with concealment of a homicidal death and arson. All of
38:07
Speaker 1: those are felonies. Now here's the kicker, Dr Bethany Marshall.
38:12
Speaker 1: Even though she's charged with first degree murder because she
38:16
Speaker 1: is so young, the state law says she starts in
38:21
Speaker 1: juvenile court. If she's convicted as a minor, she will
38:25
Speaker 1: be out in about six years. M M. That is
38:30
Speaker 1: so frightening, Nancy, because somebody who's this antisocial, maybe bordering
38:34
Speaker 1: on sociopathic, They don't attach to other people, they don't
38:38
Speaker 1: have a conscience, and when they kill, it's usually over
38:41
Speaker 1: something very innocuous. In most cases of matricide, when you
38:46
Speaker 1: rule out abuse, you know on the on the part
38:48
Speaker 1: of the parent towards the child, it's something so minor,
38:52
Speaker 1: like maybe her mother set a limit or told her
38:55
Speaker 1: she wouldn't give her an extra twenty dollars to go
38:58
Speaker 1: out shopping, or or or told her that she couldn't
39:01
Speaker 1: see her girlfriend Rachel. It was probably something so minor
39:04
Speaker 1: that spilled over into homicide. So imagine unleashing this woman
39:09
Speaker 1: on society. Now listen to these details, Dr Bethany, and
39:14
Speaker 1: I want to hear you shrink it. Anna Schroder allegedly
39:18
Speaker 1: text the friend Rachel about what she did. Rachel did
39:21
Speaker 1: not believe her, so Schroder sends her a picture of
39:25
Speaker 1: her mother's dead body. Rachel had her mother give her
39:30
Speaker 1: a ride to the Schroder's home that night, and the
39:34
Speaker 1: girls try to get the blood out of the carpet.
39:38
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine trying to get my mother's blood
39:41
Speaker 1: out of the carpet. So they go to sleep in
39:43
Speaker 1: Anna's room. Then they try to move Peggy's body to
39:48
Speaker 1: her bedroom. As you said, they lay her on the
39:50
Speaker 1: floor cover her with a bedsheet. That is interesting to me.
39:54
Speaker 1: I've seen it so many homicides. When it's someone you know, um,
39:59
Speaker 1: you the perpetrator will cover the face of the victim.
40:03
Speaker 1: They continue with the corpse lying there, the bloody corpse
40:06
Speaker 1: of her mother, working on the carpet. Then they walked
40:10
Speaker 1: to subway and they spend an hour having subway sandwiches.
40:16
Speaker 1: And that is when Schroder lawns her dad, Darryl Schroeder,
40:21
Speaker 1: is heading to town, and she goes in the bathroom
40:25
Speaker 1: and vomits. Just pure guilt. I guess, Well, several facts standout.
40:30
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I've got something else for you. Then
40:32
Speaker 1: they walked to a story by cleaning supplies. They buy
40:36
Speaker 1: cleaning supplies, and like you said, Rachel, who was blonde,
40:40
Speaker 1: dyed her hair red. Schroeder, who is brunette, dyes hers black. Finally,
40:46
Speaker 1: Saturday morning, they set the house on fire to conceal
40:50
Speaker 1: the evidence by setting fire to the bed sheet that
40:53
Speaker 1: is covering up the mother. Mmmm. What does that mean?
41:00
Speaker 1: Imagine burning your own mother. Well, I you know, Nancy.
41:03
Speaker 1: Several facts stand out. First of all, the mother was single.
41:06
Speaker 1: She had divorced the father, and often parents who are
41:10
Speaker 1: victims of matricide or a greater risk when they're single,
41:13
Speaker 1: because often in households where there is an unstable child,
41:17
Speaker 1: at least if there's two parents, one parent can protect
41:20
Speaker 1: the other. So you remove a parent and then the
41:23
Speaker 1: remaining parent is more vulnerable. Um. Secondly, the the idea
41:27
Speaker 1: that probably this occurred over something seemingly innocuous. Like I
41:31
Speaker 1: said before, often young women who commit matricide work in
41:37
Speaker 1: concert with somebody else. They very rarely work alone. Usually
41:41
Speaker 1: they'll have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, somebody who's under
41:44
Speaker 1: their firm control. In this case, they again they spent
41:49
Speaker 1: the night under the under the roof with the corpse.
41:51
Speaker 1: I think that shows how cold blooded Anna was covering
41:56
Speaker 1: the mother's body with the sheet, although I'd like to
41:58
Speaker 1: think it was a sign of respect act like the
42:01
Speaker 1: carjacking victim where the neighbor came out and put a
42:05
Speaker 1: pillow under the victim's head. In this case, I think
42:08
Speaker 1: she just didn't want to be disgusted by the side
42:10
Speaker 1: of the corpse. I think that's how shallow, manipulative, cold blooded,
42:16
Speaker 1: egocentric this perpetrator was. And and in terms of burning
42:20
Speaker 1: down the house, she must have been enraged at her
42:23
Speaker 1: mother because it was sort of like burned baby burn.
42:26
Speaker 1: I mean that not only did she shoot her in
42:28
Speaker 1: the forehead, but then she wants to burn down the
42:30
Speaker 1: house and to meet that speaks of burning rage. But
42:33
Speaker 1: not probably not because of abuse, as we said before,
42:36
Speaker 1: Probably burning rage because her mother said a limit, or
42:39
Speaker 1: her mother didn't gratify her in some way cat this.
42:44
Speaker 1: She researched the daughter Anna Schroder, children who murder their parents,
42:52
Speaker 1: This was so orchestrated and playing. This was not a
42:55
Speaker 1: spur of the moment shooting. She researched it, she thought
42:59
Speaker 1: about it. You know, it reminds me a little Casey Anthony.
43:04
Speaker 1: Remember how she researched that breaking and asphyxiation and all
43:09
Speaker 1: these things that top mom researched before the before her
43:12
Speaker 1: little girl Kaylee went missing, and not really thinking that
43:17
Speaker 1: she had, was leaving this whole trail of clues behind her.
43:21
Speaker 1: You know, it's so obvious. And also the the pre
43:25
Speaker 1: planning and the malice, the wish to get rid of
43:29
Speaker 1: this person. And I wonder what else could have been
43:31
Speaker 1: a motive besides you know, rage and hatred. I bet
43:35
Speaker 1: there's something that Anna wanted from her mother that her
43:38
Speaker 1: mother wasn't giving her, like money or or privileges. And
43:42
Speaker 1: do you remember with Casey Anthony, she bragged one of
43:45
Speaker 1: her friends that she was going to inherit her parents
43:47
Speaker 1: house and she really thought she was going to get
43:50
Speaker 1: these riches or this largest from uh from George and Cindy,
43:56
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't emagine. I think it's interesting that Anna
43:59
Speaker 1: was adopted, she her older sister adopted, And I wonder
44:02
Speaker 1: if in her fantasy world there was all this largesse
44:05
Speaker 1: and bank accounts and riches and that she would inherit
44:08
Speaker 1: that It's just speculation on my part. Maybe she's not
44:11
Speaker 1: that far sighted to think about that, but I would
44:14
Speaker 1: wonder if this was in her fantasy. You know, she
44:16
Speaker 1: was waiting at home for her mother, sitting in the
44:20
Speaker 1: living room waiting for her to walk through the door
44:23
Speaker 1: with her mother's thirty eight caliber Revolver. And the mom
44:28
Speaker 1: gets home at about five thirty, comes straight home from
44:31
Speaker 1: Mark to get to her daughter. When Anna meets her
44:34
Speaker 1: in the living room and shoots her execution style in
44:38
Speaker 1: the forehead. Well that's what I know, and I'm waiting
44:44
Speaker 1: to find out if this girl, this killer can be,
44:49
Speaker 1: as we say, bound over to adult court. I don't
44:53
Speaker 1: know if that's allowed in this jurisdiction, but that would
44:57
Speaker 1: mean that she would be treated as a all. I
45:00
Speaker 1: want to thank Dr Bethany Marshall, my friend and colleague
45:04
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend m