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Ken interviews Attorney Imran Ansari. · The Mark Simone Show

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  Speaker 1: Live from the WOR LifeVac studios, the Mark Simone Show.
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  Speaker 1: Guest hosting for Mark today, Ken Rosato. It's so good
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  Speaker 1: to be with you, the Friday before Labor Day. Labor
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  Speaker 1: Day weekend kicking off officially. We got some jobs numbers
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  Speaker 1: in that are actually very good.
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  Speaker 2: The U.S.
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  Speaker 1: Economy adding 162,000 jobs in August. And that beat all
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  Speaker 1: the forecasts, and it kept the unemployment rate steady at 4.1%,
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  Speaker 1: according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In fact, they
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  Speaker 1: said that they had expected, the economists expected, that 53,000
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  Speaker 1: jobs would be added. And we got three times that, 162,000,
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  Speaker 1: more than three times that. So pretty darn good. Also,
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  Speaker 1: they revised July's numbers up to a gain of 21,000
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  Speaker 1: jobs from a previously reported loss. And average hourly earnings
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  Speaker 1: grew by 3.1% from a year ago. Now, that's showing
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  Speaker 1: a little bit of a cooling trend, but it's still good. Now,
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  Speaker 1: you don't want the wages to increase by too much
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  Speaker 1: because then you get inflation. So many economists are saying
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  Speaker 1: these are really good numbers as we come into the
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  Speaker 1: fall season. As we approach two months from now, we
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  Speaker 1: approach the midterm elections. 800-321-0710, 800-321-0710, the number to call. And,
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  Speaker 1: you know, the Lindsay Clancy trial captivating and polarizing the nation.
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  Speaker 1: On one side, you have women who've suffered postpartum depression
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  Speaker 1: or worse. In this case, this is an accusation of
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  Speaker 1: postpartum psychosis. Finally, some of the women saying, you know what,
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  Speaker 1: the world is paying attention to the depression that we
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  Speaker 1: went through and they are taking a closer look at this.
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  Speaker 1: But the other side, you have a society that simply
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  Speaker 1: cannot accept what this is. A mother allegedly murdering her
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  Speaker 1: own three children, especially in what appears to be such
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  Speaker 1: a horrific manner. Attorney Imran Ansari is a partner and
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  Speaker 1: head of civil litigation at the law firm Idalla, Bertuna & Camens.
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  Speaker 1: Full disclosure, he's also not only my friend, but my attorney.
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  Speaker 1: We say good morning to you, Imran.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning, Ken. Thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on. So, you know, what do you
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  Speaker 1: think the holdup is with the jury? There are all
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  Speaker 1: sorts of theories involved. But based on your experience in
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  Speaker 1: a courtroom, what do you think is going on?
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  Speaker 2: You know, as trial attorneys, we try to read the
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  Speaker 2: tea leaves whenever we have a jury deliberating, trying to
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  Speaker 2: get some idea where they're leaning, trying to read into
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  Speaker 2: the jury notes that are sent out while they're deliberating.
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  Speaker 2: But often you really can't read those tea leaves and
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  Speaker 2: a jury will surprise you. with their verdict, even though
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  Speaker 2: you thought they may be going one way or the other. Here,
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  Speaker 2: with the Lindsay Clancy trial, we have the jury deliberating
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  Speaker 2: over a case, Ken, that you accurately reflected or commented
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  Speaker 2: that it's polarizing the nation. And it's reflected in that jury,
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  Speaker 2: I believe, based on the fact that they're deliberating.
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  Speaker 1: They are at a deadlock.
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  Speaker 2: And what we now learn is that it's 11 to 1.
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  Speaker 2: There is one holdout juror who is not coming on
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  Speaker 2: board with the other jurors to a unanimous verdict. So
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  Speaker 2: this trial, this case may very well be a mistrial
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  Speaker 2: because of one single juror holding out. And you can't
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  Speaker 2: fault that juror. In fact, there's some questions out there.
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  Speaker 2: Why isn't the judge sort of putting some pressure on
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  Speaker 2: this juror? Kevin Rennington, who is the defense attorney, wanted
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  Speaker 2: to bring this juror out and question him or her
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  Speaker 2: as to why they are holding out. But you can't
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  Speaker 2: do that, right? The sanctity of the jury... is that
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  Speaker 2: unless this juror is not following the instructions or the
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  Speaker 2: law or is doing something improper, you really can't do
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  Speaker 2: anything to sway them from an outside standpoint because that's
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  Speaker 2: how the jury works. And if ultimately the juror decides
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  Speaker 2: that they're not going to come on board with the
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  Speaker 2: other jurors for a unanimous verdict, then you're going to
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  Speaker 2: have a mistrial.
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  Speaker 1: Now, here's a question, because it could be anything from
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  Speaker 1: not guilty to not guilty by lack of criminal responsibility,
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  Speaker 1: which would be what a lot of states call insanity,
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  Speaker 1: guilty of manslaughter, second degree or first degree murder. Those
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  Speaker 1: are the options for the jury. Do they all have
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  Speaker 1: to decide on one of those five? So all 12
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  Speaker 1: have to unanimously decide that it's guilty of first degree
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  Speaker 1: or can say half of them say first degree and
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  Speaker 1: some of them say second degree and then they rationalize it. Well,
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  Speaker 1: how does it work?
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  Speaker 2: No, it has to be a unanimous verdict. And if
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  Speaker 2: there is any sort of discrepancy with the charge, there
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  Speaker 2: could be very well a verdict on one that's unanimous,
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  Speaker 2: yet there is a lesser included, which is not unanimous.
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  Speaker 2: But you have to lead the jury to one unanimous
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  Speaker 2: verdict at least, so there's not a complete mistrial in
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  Speaker 2: a case. And here you have options as to murder.
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  Speaker 2: But then you have not necessarily a not guilty verdict,
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  Speaker 2: but not criminally responsible by reason of mental disease or defect.
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  Speaker 2: And that's really the option that this jury is weighing here.
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  Speaker 2: And you could see that over the course of these days, Ken,
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  Speaker 2: they've been deliberating just as the drama may be unfolding
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  Speaker 2: outside of the courtroom and on the public stage and
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  Speaker 2: the court of public opinion. There may very well be
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  Speaker 2: drama unfolding inside that jury deliberation room. And I think
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  Speaker 2: I talked about reading the tea leaves, but now we
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  Speaker 2: really have a better picture on what's going on in
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  Speaker 2: there when you have one holdout juror. So you could
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  Speaker 2: imagine there must be some tensions flaring in that deliberation
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  Speaker 2: room between the jurors who have made their decision and
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  Speaker 2: the juror who is holding out. But it was a
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  Speaker 2: tough case to grapple with, even from the public standpoint.
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  Speaker 2: And certainly if you have the juror with that very,
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  Speaker 2: very heavy responsibility on your shoulders and making a decision
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  Speaker 2: on this case with three young lives tragically lost at
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  Speaker 2: the hands of their mother. But then on the other hand,
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  Speaker 2: you have a very compelling defense argument that she was
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  Speaker 2: so sick from this postpartum psychosis and the postpartum depression
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  Speaker 2: that led her here that she may very well not
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  Speaker 2: understood or appreciated the criminality of her conduct.
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  Speaker 1: And so we just want to remind everybody, you're listening
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  Speaker 1: to 710WOR, The Voice of New York. It's Ken Rosato
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  Speaker 1: in for Mark, along with attorney Imran Ansari, who is
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  Speaker 1: from the law firm Idala Bertuna Kamens. And we are
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  Speaker 1: talking about, of course, the Lindsay Clancy trial. So I
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  Speaker 1: guess one of the other questions I get confused about is,
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  Speaker 1: she's been charged with all of those counts, right? This
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  Speaker 1: way they could try to convict on one of the counts.
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  Speaker 1: The point I'm trying to make is say they conclusively say, well,
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  Speaker 1: she's guilty of this, not guilty of that, but we
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  Speaker 1: can't decide on this. You know what I mean? Is
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  Speaker 1: that then a hung jury if on one of the
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  Speaker 1: counts they're hung?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's a real possibility. And then it's unlikely
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  Speaker 2: that a prosecutor would seek to retry on one charge
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  Speaker 2: that they couldn't reach a unanimous decision on. If they
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  Speaker 2: reach a unanimous decision on first-degree murder, that's it. That's
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  Speaker 2: a first-degree murder conviction that Lindsay Clancy is facing with
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  Speaker 2: life imprisonment. But if it's a lesser charge and they
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  Speaker 2: convict on that, Well, that's also a– that's a conviction.
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  Speaker 2: If they find that they're– they find that she's not
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  Speaker 2: criminally responsible, well, that's sort of a full sweep right
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  Speaker 2: there because that defense would absolve her from that crime
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  Speaker 2: and any of the lesser included charges involved. that they
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  Speaker 2: would have brought and you know ken i'm a former
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  Speaker 2: prosecutor myself and often you know you're you're going for
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  Speaker 2: the top count for a conviction uh but the jury
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  Speaker 2: may render a verdict of not guilty or they can't
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  Speaker 2: reach a decision but then they can't convict on another
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  Speaker 2: charge or a lesser charge um and that's a scenario
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  Speaker 2: that could happen here there.
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  Speaker 1: You go well i'm so glad we had you on
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  Speaker 1: because that helps clear a lot up i i feel
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  Speaker 1: a little more enlightened on some things but uh we
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  Speaker 1: really don't know what they're yelling about right now behind
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  Speaker 1: those closed doors and Who that one person is, the holdout.
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  Speaker 1: I have a theory and I put it on the line, Imran.
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  Speaker 1: I'm saying it's a guy because there are nine women,
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  Speaker 1: three men, and I'm saying it's a guy. My gut
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  Speaker 1: is telling me it's a guy and that he wants
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  Speaker 1: something more stringent. He wants a serious conviction and that
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  Speaker 1: the others want something lesser. That's what my gut is
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  Speaker 1: telling me.
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  Speaker 2: And maybe, you know, your prediction is accurate based on
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  Speaker 2: that sort of body language from the female jurors.
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  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Attorney Imran Ansari, partner and head of
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  Speaker 1: civil litigation at the law firm Idalla, Bertuna & Kamens
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  Speaker 1: here in New York. My friend and personal attorney, thank
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  Speaker 1: you for coming on this morning, Imran.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Ken.
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  Speaker 1: You bet. Happy Labor Day weekend. We're going to have
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  Speaker 1: nice sunshine today, by the way. Highs in the mid
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  Speaker 1: to upper 80s. And again, we're going to take your
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  Speaker 1: calls next, 800-321-0710.
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  Speaker 2: 800-321-0710.
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  Speaker 1: It's Ken Rosato in for Mark Simone on your Friday 710WOR.