Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Why Everything You’ve Heard About Bullying Is Wrong [No Bullying Week]

Transcript

Why Everything You’ve Heard About Bullying Is Wrong [No Bullying Week] · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: All this week It's No Bullying Week around the nation
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  Speaker 1: Bullying No Way Week eleven to fifteenth of August. And
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  Speaker 1: it matters, we need it why well. On a national scale,
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  Speaker 1: fifty nine percent of Australian students that's two point three
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: million students nationally have been on the receiving end of
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  Speaker 1: bullying in the last year, with twenty percent experiencing a weekly.
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  Speaker 1: Thirty percent of Australian fifteen year olds were bullied at
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  Speaker 1: least a few times a month, compared to the OECD
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  Speaker 1: average of twenty three percent. Ah, the numbers just get
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  Speaker 1: worse and worse and worse. Australian ranks number two globally
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  Speaker 1: for school bullying. Only Latvia reports higher levels among twenty
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  Speaker 1: four OECD countries, according to the twenty twenty two piece
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  Speaker 1: of data released by the Australian Council for Educational Research. Today,
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  Speaker 1: on the Happy Families podcast, we talk about three things
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  Speaker 1: that you can do if your child is being bullied.
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  Speaker 1: They are not the things you used to hearing, believe me.
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  Speaker 1: And then we're going to talk about three things that
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  Speaker 1: you can do to prevent your child from bullying. Stay
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: with us, Hello, Welcome to the Happy Famili's podcast Real
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  Speaker 1: Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: All this week we're going to be focused on bullying
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  Speaker 1: because it's no Bullying Week, bullying no way right across
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  Speaker 1: the country. Ye, We're going to kick off today's conversation
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  Speaker 1: by getting straight into it and having a look at
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  Speaker 1: three things that I've been thinking about to do if
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  Speaker 1: your child is being bullied. I'll share them with you
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  Speaker 1: and then you add your reactions. So the first thing
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  Speaker 1: that I want to suggest is that all too often
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  Speaker 1: I still hear parents say when my child is being bullied,
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  Speaker 1: and this is what my dad used to teach me
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  Speaker 1: if you ever get picked on, if you ever get bullied,
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  Speaker 1: you just turn around and punch and right in the nose,
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  Speaker 1: fight back or tough enough. It's the stand up to bullies,
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  Speaker 1: tough en up narrative. And my suggestion today is that
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  Speaker 1: this is the worst advice ever, telling kids to stand
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  Speaker 1: up to bullies. I'll fight back. And the reason for
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  Speaker 1: that is I see it as victim blaming. I think
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  Speaker 1: that it gnare's power dynamics and it can clearly inevitably
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I think escalate dangerous situations are there's stories where people
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  Speaker 1: fight back. Yeah, all the time, and we kind of
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  Speaker 1: get excited when somebody does that, But I just don't
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  Speaker 1: think it's healthy. Instead, our job is to validate our
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  Speaker 1: children's experience and focus on the system. Focus on finding
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  Speaker 1: solutions within the school system. So work with the school,
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  Speaker 1: work with the head of year, the head of house,
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  Speaker 1: the deputy principle, the well being leader, whoever it is
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  Speaker 1: that you can change the culture rather than asking your
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  Speaker 1: vulnerable child to fix failures within the system.
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  Speaker 2: But I also think the bully wants a response, So
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  Speaker 2: as soon as you give them a response, then you're
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  Speaker 2: fueling the fire. You've actually given the fuel, the very
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  Speaker 2: fuel that they want.
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  Speaker 1: It's kind of like social media on steroids bullying anything
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  Speaker 1: that creates hostility or gets a crowd. The bully gets
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  Speaker 1: status from saying, look at how tough I am, Look
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  Speaker 1: what I've done. There's just something about it that is endemic.
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  Speaker 1: It continues no matter how many conversations we have about it.
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  Speaker 1: Here's my second one. I think that we need to
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  Speaker 1: stop framing a bullying sorry as a learning opportunity or
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  Speaker 1: a character building experience or a resilience thing. Some people
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  Speaker 1: think that if you can deal with the bully, that
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  Speaker 1: that must mean that you're resilient, And what I think
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  Speaker 1: it does, I'm not a big fan of I think
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  Speaker 1: that we've got too much conversation about trauma in our
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  Speaker 1: world today. But one thing that I do know is
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  Speaker 1: that bullying is a traumatic experience. And when you say
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  Speaker 1: just be resilient, it minimizes what I would call genuine trauma.
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  Speaker 1: And again, it keeps on shifting responsibility for the bullying
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  Speaker 1: onto the victim. I don't think it's your kid's job
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  Speaker 1: to bounce back from an unfair abusive situation. It just
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  Speaker 1: doesn't seem right. Rather, we're supposed to be creating an
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  Speaker 1: environment where abuse doesn't exist and our children have the
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  Speaker 1: unconditional support that they need.
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  Speaker 2: You talk about the idea that we talk too much
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  Speaker 2: about trauma when we understand that trauma isn't what happened
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  Speaker 2: to us, it's our ability to process.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, how we respond to this.
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  Speaker 2: It's all about processing and response to events in our lives.
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  Speaker 2: I actually can see how so many of the life
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  Speaker 2: experiences that our children go through, and even us as
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  Speaker 2: adults go through, become traumatic because we actually have not
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  Speaker 2: learnt the skills to be able to process challenging and
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  Speaker 2: difficult experiences in our lives, and when we're unable to
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  Speaker 2: process it, that becomes traumatic to us because we can't
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  Speaker 2: move forward, we're stuck.
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  Speaker 1: This is true, However, I think the main point that
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  Speaker 1: I'm making here is that the bullying shouldn't be happening.
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  Speaker 1: I want perfect world solutions here, right, and the bullying
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  Speaker 1: shouldn't be happening, so we shouldn't have to process it
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  Speaker 1: because it shouldn't be happening. My interest is how do
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  Speaker 1: we get rid of the abuse and telling the kids
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  Speaker 1: that they need to bounce back, they need to be resilient,
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  Speaker 1: they need to learn from this works against them now
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  Speaker 1: once it's happened. Yes, processing is important, and dealing with
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  Speaker 1: the trauma and healing from the horrible experience matters. We've
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  Speaker 1: got to be careful not to make too big of
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  Speaker 1: a deal about that and just guide our children gently
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  Speaker 1: through it. But fundamentally, if bullying is occurring, I would
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  Speaker 1: argue that almost always it's a result of inadequate structures
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  Speaker 1: within the system to help kids be safe from inappropriate
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  Speaker 1: interactions with their peers.
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  Speaker 2: I love that you said that, because I am watching
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  Speaker 2: what's happening for our eleven year old daughter who's homeschooled.
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  Speaker 2: We've had experiences in the school system and the challenges
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  Speaker 2: that she has in relationships within the school system have
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  Speaker 2: been profound. And now that she's at home, we found
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  Speaker 2: this beautiful homeschooling group and these kids literally from dawn
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  Speaker 2: till dusk can't get enough time together. They can't get
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  Speaker 2: enough time together, and there has not been a single
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  Speaker 2: altercation between them in over twelve months.
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  Speaker 1: Yep, yep. So when the system works, when you're in
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  Speaker 1: a need supportive environment where you feel confident, you feel
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  Speaker 1: like you have a sense of control, and you feel
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  Speaker 1: like your relationships are good, you just don't get bullying.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think I can like articulate this enough. Watching
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  Speaker 2: our daughter have these positive experiences within peer relationships is
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  Speaker 2: mind blowing to me because in the school system, well
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  Speaker 2: it's so hard to get that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had several kids who have been absolutely bullied.
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  Speaker 1: I won't go further, but we've had several kids who
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  Speaker 1: have been bullied because the quite often, not always, but
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  Speaker 1: quite often, the school environment simply can't support needs the
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  Speaker 1: same way that you can in a smaller environment. Let's
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  Speaker 1: move on to the third one, because time is going
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  Speaker 1: to get away from us. I think that we've really
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  Speaker 1: got a challenge the punishment focus within schools when somebody
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  Speaker 1: is being a bully, when somebody has been bullying, most
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  Speaker 1: anti bullying programs fail, and I talk about this at
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  Speaker 1: the National Center Against Bullying Conference about six or seven
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  Speaker 1: years ago. Now, most anti bullying programs fail because they
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  Speaker 1: rely on consequences and zero tolerance policies that don't address
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  Speaker 1: the root cause. And so essentially, when there is a
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: kid who's being a bully, then all the adults in
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  Speaker 1: the school start to bully the bully. And I'm using
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  Speaker 1: that term a little bit loosely, but fundamentally, what we're
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  Speaker 1: doing to kids is we're saying you did the wrong thing,
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  Speaker 1: and now we're going to make you pay a price.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to introduce a systemic, ongoing regime where we
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  Speaker 1: make you feel a consequence because of what you're doing,
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  Speaker 1: and it doesn't make things better. The idea that we're
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  Speaker 1: going to discipline the bully, if we can get beyond
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  Speaker 1: that and stop doing too but rather start working with
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  Speaker 1: we're going to get better outcomes. And so many parents
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  Speaker 1: demand when their child is being bullied that the school
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  Speaker 1: do something, and when they say do something, they mean
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  Speaker 1: I want you to hurt the kid that hurt my kid,
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  Speaker 1: which doesn't lead to better outcomes at just perpetuates problems
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  Speaker 1: within the system.
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  Speaker 2: We talk regularly about the idea that when our kids
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  Speaker 2: are acting out and giving us the worst of what
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  Speaker 2: they have to offer, it's the time where we actually
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  Speaker 2: need to lean in, step up, and you know, get
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  Speaker 2: close and intimate with them to understand the root cause
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  Speaker 2: of what's going on. These kids their kids, their kids,
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  Speaker 2: and they are struggling with whatever's going on in their world,
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  Speaker 2: and it doesn't it's really hard when your child is
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  Speaker 2: on the tail end of their bad behavior, Like that's hard,
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  Speaker 2: it's really hard, but recognizing and knowing that somebody needs
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  Speaker 2: to step up and actually help this child understand what
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  Speaker 2: it is that's actually the root cause, because right now
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  Speaker 2: they're acting out in anger, and we understand and know
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  Speaker 2: that anger is, you know, kind of just masking everything
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  Speaker 2: else that goes underneath.
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  Speaker 1: It's that secondary emotion. After the break, we're going to
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  Speaker 1: talk about what we can do within the system to
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  Speaker 1: prevent your child from being a bully. Okay, Kylie, Three
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  Speaker 1: things that we can do to prevent our children from
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  Speaker 1: being a bully. The first one that I want to
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  Speaker 1: highlight is this, I think we've got to stop rewarding
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  Speaker 1: dominance in disguise. What do I mean by that? A
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  Speaker 1: lot of parents inadvertently encourage bullying by celebrating what I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to put it in scare quotes leadership or confidence
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  Speaker 1: or competitiveness, but they don't examine whether or not that
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  Speaker 1: leadership or that competitiveness or that confidence involves putting others down.
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  Speaker 1: And so quite often we're saying, oh, my child is
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  Speaker 1: so strong and my child is winning, but it actually
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  Speaker 1: reinforces this zero some worldview where somebody has to lose
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  Speaker 1: so that our child can succeed. The more the environment
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  Speaker 1: is competitive rather than collaborative and cooperative, the more that
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  Speaker 1: our children are asserting themselves at the expense of others,
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  Speaker 1: they might look like leaders, they might look like they're winning,
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  Speaker 1: it might look like they're being competitive, but for those
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  Speaker 1: who are on the receiving end, it just feels like bullying.
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  Speaker 2: Number two.
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  Speaker 1: The second thing that will prevent kids from bullying, I
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  Speaker 1: think is just examining our own power dynamics. I hate
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  Speaker 1: to say this, but kids who bully. There is an
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  Speaker 1: association between bullying behavior and children bulling behavior at high
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: authoritarian parenting parenting that it emphasizes control and obedience parents
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  Speaker 1: who honestly are just too tired. There was a recent
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  Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal article that talked about how parenting is
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  Speaker 1: going through a pendulum swing of mammoth proportions right now.
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  Speaker 1: Gentle parenting has been the fad for the last half
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  Speaker 1: a dozen years or so. It's been the crazy it's
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  Speaker 1: been everywhere, But the Wall Street Journal recently reported on
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: something called Goodbye gentle parenting, Hello, f around and find out.
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  Speaker 1: Fuss around and find out, we'll call it. In other words,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: we're moving away from gentle parenting and moving back to
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: hardcore parenting. In a week or two, we're going to
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: do a podcast episode about why that parenting approach is
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: a problem. But one thing that I will highlight right
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: now is that when you have a fuss around and
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: find out approach to parenting, a consequence based, punishment based
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: approach to parenting, you're using your size advantage to make
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  Speaker 1: your child comply, and you're modeling precisely the kind of
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  Speaker 1: behavior that you're claiming to oppose. When you say that
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  Speaker 1: you don't like bullying. Autonomy, supportive or need Supportive parenting
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  Speaker 1: involves collaborative engagement with your child, and that is going
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  Speaker 1: to prevent bullying more than any number of lectures about
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: being kind and lucky. Last, the third one is that
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  Speaker 1: we need to This is kind of a funny one
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: and it might not make sense initially, but hear me out.
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  Speaker 1: I think we need to ditch the quote unquote treat
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  Speaker 1: others the way you want to be treated platitude. And
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: the reason for that is that a lot of kids
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  Speaker 1: who bully have internalized the harsh treatment that they've received previously,
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  Speaker 1: or they've internalized the idea that harsh treatment is normal.
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  Speaker 1: I'm never endingly astounded at the casual brutality with which
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  Speaker 1: children treat one another. And they really do think that
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  Speaker 1: it's normal to mock each other, to punch each other,
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  Speaker 1: to shove each other, to call one another names, to
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: throw slurs at one another. Because they think that it's normal. Therefore,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: they think that it's okay to treat other people that way.
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  Speaker 1: It's not. We need to help kids to develop empathy
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  Speaker 1: by asking questions like how do you think that person felt?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: And how would it have felt if somebody did that
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: to you, and if they say I'm fine with it,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: then that's where we go back to it. Well, based
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: on the look on their face, I'm reading their responses
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  Speaker 1: different to yours. We've got to get past the superficiality
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: of kindness and get into authentic connection. So they are
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I three ways for preventing kids from bullying.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: If I was going to add anything else to your list,
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  Speaker 2: I think it would be getting children outside of their
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  Speaker 2: own comfort zones and getting them helping in the community,
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  Speaker 2: helping other people who are less fortunate than them, who
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: don't have the same you know, lifestyle that they experience,
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  Speaker 2: to recognize just the goodness that's in their lives and
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  Speaker 2: the joy, the absolute joy that comes from helping somebody else.
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  Speaker 1: I love how I give all the fancy psychology answers
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  Speaker 1: and then you step in and say something beautiful like that.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know of any psychological research
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  Speaker 1: around this, But what I really do believe is that
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  Speaker 1: the best way to help children to be better kids
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  Speaker 1: is to get them involved in service and helping others.
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  Speaker 1: They get out of their own head they get out
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  Speaker 1: of their own head space, They ceased to have that entitled,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: privileged approach to life. They just recognize how lucky they are,
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  Speaker 1: how good their life is, and they want to treat
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  Speaker 1: people better. Such a great response.
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  Speaker 2: We did a really simple experiment with our kids when
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: they were much younger. We went and visited an elderly
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: couple one night and we sang them some songs and
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: she had an experience with them. And our eldest daughter
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: at the time was just about to turn fourteen, and
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: she had a bit of anks, She had a bit
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: of you know, pushback, and she watched as this grumpy
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  Speaker 2: old man and he was He was a real grumpy
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  Speaker 2: old man, just sit in his chair and sob as
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: we spent that time with him, and something in her
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  Speaker 2: shifted and she said to me when we got home,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: she said, Mum, I think I want to go and
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: spend more time with Betty and Arthur. From then on,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: every week she would catch the bus home from school
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: to their house and play Chicken Scratch. I still don't
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: even know what the game.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I'm sort of a game, yeah.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Card game, but she played it with them every week
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: and it was the best time of her week. Like
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: she absolutely loved it. Looked forward to it and the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: difference it made in that elderly couple's life was just profound.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Tomorrow on the Happy Families Podcast, we talk about how
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to have a conversation with kids regarding terminally ill parents.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: It's a really tough one. And then later in the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: week we get back to bullying no Way with a
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: couple of really important conversations with people who know more
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: about bullying than pretty much anyone on the planet. That's
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: all happening this week on the Happy Families podcast. Make
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: sure you stay with us and join us again. The
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Mim Hammond's provides admin research and additional support, and if
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: you'd like morefo about making your family happier, we'd love
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: for you to check out Happy Families dot com dot
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: au for more resources.