Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / Evaluating The Pitching Market + Ketel Marte Trade Ideas

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Evaluating The Pitching Market + Ketel Marte Trade Ideas · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:10
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory. Part of
0:13
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory overk Aort Tiger's podcast. I'm Kiero Sigley
0:17
Speaker 1: with me as always as a man who was very
0:19
Speaker 1: intentional with his letters.
0:22
Speaker 2: He's Ghy Stavininggen.
0:23
Speaker 1: How you doing.
0:25
Speaker 3: I'm doing all right, Kieran. I am ready for something
0:28
Speaker 3: to happen in the baseball world. Uh, let's say the
0:32
Speaker 3: Tigers baseball world. Things have been pretty quiet. We'll talk
0:36
Speaker 3: about it. The one pizza news. Ryan Helsley did sign.
0:39
Speaker 3: He did sign this weekend when Kieran and I were
0:41
Speaker 3: at a football game. He just didn't sign with the Tigers.
0:44
Speaker 3: So I didn't really have to work. But that was
0:46
Speaker 3: probably the most interesting thing that was on the Tigers radar.
0:51
Speaker 3: The most interesting thing that had really been reported and
0:54
Speaker 3: that I knew for a fact was THEGIT and it
0:57
Speaker 3: didn't work out. So as we head into your meetings
1:00
Speaker 3: about less than a week from today, I think the
1:03
Speaker 3: big question is what are the Tigers doing? Are they
1:05
Speaker 3: going to do anything? What is next? And are we
1:09
Speaker 3: ever going to get to the point in the offseason
1:11
Speaker 3: where things start picking up. I think yes, I think
1:13
Speaker 3: we're almost there, but it's been very quiet on the
1:16
Speaker 3: Tiger side.
1:17
Speaker 1: Thinks, you know, sometimes the baseball offseason can kind of
1:22
Speaker 1: drag out a little bit as a guy's way to
1:25
Speaker 1: sign contracts, and we're gonna be doing this for a
1:28
Speaker 1: couple people. I'm sure that the Tigers are at least
1:31
Speaker 1: linked to or it makes sense for or whatever we
1:33
Speaker 1: did last year as well. Credit to Ryan Man for
1:37
Speaker 1: just being like, hey, I found a situation, I liked,
1:40
Speaker 1: I found a contract.
1:41
Speaker 2: I liked. Hey, bing bang boom.
1:43
Speaker 1: Let's go In case you guys miss it, he is
1:46
Speaker 1: signing with Baltimore.
1:47
Speaker 2: It's two years, twenty eight million.
1:50
Speaker 1: I believe Jeff Passon said there isn't opt out in
1:53
Speaker 1: there after year one one player option.
1:56
Speaker 2: Yes, so so yeah.
1:58
Speaker 3: Notably, he is signing as a lever, not a starter,
2:02
Speaker 3: which may brings up a lot of questions. Did he
2:05
Speaker 3: prefer to be a reliever. We talked about how he
2:07
Speaker 3: had said the right things in his interview with the Athletic,
2:10
Speaker 3: but he did kind of mention having more comfortability coming
2:14
Speaker 3: out of the bullpen pitching at the biggest moments of
2:17
Speaker 3: the game quote unquote, So was that his preference the
2:21
Speaker 3: money to twenty eight. I see no reason the Tigers
2:25
Speaker 3: couldn't have done two thirty two as a starter. I
2:28
Speaker 3: feel like there was higher future earning potential if he
2:31
Speaker 3: were to successfully translate to a starter. So I'm a
2:34
Speaker 3: little surprised that he signed was a reliever when they
2:37
Speaker 3: were not just the Tigers wanted him. There were other
2:39
Speaker 3: teams interested in the starter. The money seems in the ballpark,
2:43
Speaker 3: But I'm I'm a little worried that the Tigers didn't
2:47
Speaker 3: get this done. I think they are now going to
2:49
Speaker 3: have to pay up more for somebody else, or I
2:53
Speaker 3: worry they could end up with an underwhelming starting pitcher acquisition.
2:58
Speaker 1: Uh well, okay, couple of things there. I'm not I'm
3:01
Speaker 1: not sure they're gonna gonna pay up for somebody else.
3:05
Speaker 2: They might not pay up for.
3:06
Speaker 1: Anybody like that is kind of like the uh I
3:09
Speaker 1: guess the fear if you're a Tigers fan is that
3:12
Speaker 1: they just like won't pay up for anybody. And there
3:14
Speaker 1: are some situations where they could quote pay up for
3:17
Speaker 1: other uh other positions and and kind of go a
3:20
Speaker 1: little bit on the cheaper route with pitching. We're gonna
3:22
Speaker 1: be talking about those scenarios throughout this offseason, especially as
3:25
Speaker 1: when our meetings are are fast approaching. But yeah, this
3:28
Speaker 1: did not feel like an outbid situation. This did not
3:31
Speaker 1: feel like a a out situation situation, Like I you know,
3:38
Speaker 1: Baltimore still has like obviously a lot of talent, but
3:41
Speaker 1: they obviously underachieved last year.
3:43
Speaker 3: Uh.
3:44
Speaker 1: The Tigers are a team that I believe would be
3:47
Speaker 1: enticing to any pitcher, especially someone who is signing short
3:51
Speaker 1: term and has flexibility and and uh and is gonna
3:55
Speaker 1: want to cash in either next year or the year
3:57
Speaker 1: after that.
3:58
Speaker 2: So like.
4:00
Speaker 1: This feels like a lack of interest thing. It can't
4:04
Speaker 1: it can't be a price point thing, because this is
4:07
Speaker 1: like a pretty chalk price, right. I believe That's what
4:09
Speaker 1: I said initially when when when the deal, when the
4:12
Speaker 1: terms were announced, and then the uh, you know, the
4:15
Speaker 1: fact that he's gonna be a reliever is obviously chalk
4:18
Speaker 1: because he's been a reliever his entire midjor league career.
4:21
Speaker 1: So there wasn't really anything extracurricular, which is what we
4:24
Speaker 1: thought the Tigers were kind of trying to sell a
4:27
Speaker 1: little bit. So I wonder if, in addition to other teams,
4:31
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, I wonder if this feels like a
4:33
Speaker 1: little bit of a like he just actually did not
4:38
Speaker 1: want to be a starter, like you guys put out
4:40
Speaker 1: the report out there. He's, like you said, he said
4:43
Speaker 1: all the right things. If the Tigers pursued him as
4:45
Speaker 1: a starter and the money was again in kind of
4:49
Speaker 1: chalk range, I kind of feel like it would and
4:51
Speaker 1: he was prepared to sign. I kind of feel like
4:54
Speaker 1: either a he didn't want to or the interest just
4:58
Speaker 1: was a little bit more tepid then maybe we were.
5:01
Speaker 1: We were analyzing from the Tigers side, because this was
5:05
Speaker 1: definitely a doable deal in every facet, unless they just
5:09
Speaker 1: it was starter or bus from the Tiger's perspective these things,
5:12
Speaker 1: of course, we will not know the full answer to.
5:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, And for the record, I don't have any real
5:17
Speaker 3: insight on how the negotiations with Healthley went down other
5:20
Speaker 3: than that they did take place and now makes me eat.
5:24
Speaker 3: But like I said, just and the more I thought
5:26
Speaker 3: about the healthy idea, the more I came to really
5:28
Speaker 3: like it. The upside was pretty much unlimited. To get
5:33
Speaker 3: a guy who throws one hundred and can spin the
5:35
Speaker 3: ball and make him a starter. I mean, it's really
5:38
Speaker 3: high upside. And now to come anywhere close to matching
5:41
Speaker 3: that little of upside. You're either going to have to
5:43
Speaker 3: hand out a big deal, which the team may not
5:46
Speaker 3: be willing to do in the first place, where you're
5:48
Speaker 3: looking elsewhere to get creative or budget friendly, likely without
5:53
Speaker 3: the same level of upside. That's why I'm a little
5:57
Speaker 3: a little concerned as to where the Tigers are going
6:00
Speaker 3: to go next.
6:02
Speaker 1: Well, they're not going the Devin Williams who's agreed to
6:06
Speaker 1: a contract with the New York Mets three years, fifty
6:09
Speaker 1: one million. So now the high end reliever market is
6:12
Speaker 1: starting the shape up, and you know, guys are you know,
6:16
Speaker 1: leaving the market, which leaves players like Pete Fairbanks, who
6:22
Speaker 1: I believe it.
6:23
Speaker 2: Was I had on my not somewhere.
6:24
Speaker 1: It was a Morosi, I believe, who kind of floated
6:27
Speaker 1: out the the Tigers are in the Fairbanks sweepstakes. And
6:32
Speaker 1: I went and asked Google Ai what a good contract
6:35
Speaker 1: projection would be, and Google Ai said two for eighteen
6:38
Speaker 1: could be two for two for sixteen because he's you know,
6:43
Speaker 1: he's had an injury history, but he's got a solid guy, is.
6:46
Speaker 3: Not yet ready to run a baseball team. I think
6:48
Speaker 3: it's going to get a little bit more.
6:50
Speaker 2: Well so do you.
6:51
Speaker 1: But I say, think he's gonna get a little bit more.
6:55
Speaker 1: Are the Tigers in on that market for like a
6:58
Speaker 1: Pete Fairbanks type? Maybe not, again, not in the serious specific,
7:00
Speaker 1: but is this kind of like a tear that they
7:02
Speaker 1: have the target?
7:04
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, especially in the relief market. I think I've
7:07
Speaker 3: been saying the Fairbanks name since a couple of weeks
7:10
Speaker 3: after the season. He's definitely someone that Tigers have liked,
7:12
Speaker 3: have huned in on a little bit. Now it sounds
7:15
Speaker 3: like they weren't among the earliest aggressors in his free agency.
7:19
Speaker 3: Now sounds like, according to reporting from Katie Wu and others,
7:23
Speaker 3: that Fairbanks out ready to sign, getting close, could be
7:26
Speaker 3: the next major reliever to go. Morosi dropping that in
7:31
Speaker 3: case that maybe the Tigers have gotten themselves back in
7:33
Speaker 3: this room, and I think that would be fine. I
7:37
Speaker 3: never really expected them to pay for Devin Williams. Edwin
7:41
Speaker 3: Diaz still does linger on the market, but again, it
7:45
Speaker 3: seems incredibly Unscott Harris like to pay a premium for
7:50
Speaker 3: relief pitching, especially when you could if you get Fairbanks
7:53
Speaker 3: and if you re up with Kyle Finnegan, which there
7:55
Speaker 3: does remain mutual interest there you still have well va
8:00
Speaker 3: like you can feel pretty good about that. So I
8:05
Speaker 3: think that you to go to your point is like, well,
8:07
Speaker 3: what if they don't what if they don't get Fairbanks,
8:10
Speaker 3: then what are you doing? Evan Phillips is out there.
8:12
Speaker 3: But then that tier guys thins out pretty quickly. So
8:15
Speaker 3: I think it's important that they get one of these
8:17
Speaker 3: deals done, whether it's starter or reliever, that they get
8:20
Speaker 3: something done pretty soon. The Finnegan deal is probably the easiest,
8:23
Speaker 3: and maybe Finnigan just wants to see what his market
8:26
Speaker 3: is elsewhere, But there's talks he could want something like
8:29
Speaker 3: two years twenty million. Is Kyle Finigan actually gonna get that?
8:33
Speaker 3: And so I see why the Tigers might be hesitant.
8:35
Speaker 3: I'm not sure he will get quite that much. I
8:37
Speaker 3: think Fairbanks could exceed twenty million. That's all say Fairbanks
8:41
Speaker 3: Finigan names to watch in the next week to two weeks.
8:45
Speaker 3: I think the Tigers better come away with at least
8:47
Speaker 3: one of those guys and better get it done soon.
8:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:51
Speaker 1: Well, we know that the Tigers under Scott Harris have
8:56
Speaker 1: not been prone to market setting that and and they
9:01
Speaker 1: typically do not want and I bet you. I bet you.
9:05
Speaker 1: If this was in two months, they could have gotten
9:09
Speaker 1: like a Hellsley deal done. They could have got they
9:11
Speaker 1: could and they still might obviously get a Fairbanks done
9:14
Speaker 1: and of Finnigin done pretty quickly. I doubt these negotiations
9:17
Speaker 1: are all that complicated. It's really probably just a couple
9:20
Speaker 1: of dollars here or there somebody wants an opt out,
9:24
Speaker 1: and then whether the Tigers are comfortable kind of be
9:26
Speaker 1: in the at the fourth right of the market.
9:29
Speaker 2: They are a little bit.
9:30
Speaker 1: Out of their comfort zone the front offices right now,
9:33
Speaker 1: with like things happening a lot really quickly, even pre
9:36
Speaker 1: winter meetings. The Cob contract last year, which obviously was
9:40
Speaker 1: during winter meetings, was not a setting contract, right, so
9:45
Speaker 1: like it just it just Torres was later. It just
9:48
Speaker 1: feels like this is something that they're going to wait
9:51
Speaker 1: on and either look like geniuses or to their own detriment.
9:54
Speaker 2: So that's just just kind of my predictable.
9:57
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, they signed Jack Flaherty, they Cobb around
10:01
Speaker 3: this time of year last year, so it sounds like
10:03
Speaker 3: they like to see things move a little bit and
10:04
Speaker 3: then they're not afraid to take their shot. I wouldn't
10:06
Speaker 3: be surprised if that plays out again for a third
10:09
Speaker 3: year in a row.
10:11
Speaker 1: And just so want to make a quick mention they
10:12
Speaker 1: did bring back a pitcher, Tanner Rainey on a minor
10:16
Speaker 1: leapt the press and with an invitation to major non
10:21
Speaker 1: roster invitation to major leagues being training, so I can't
10:24
Speaker 1: say it and then bring bring in pitching. So just
10:27
Speaker 1: wanted to make note of that. We are going to
10:29
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then afterward we are going
10:32
Speaker 1: to get to our the best part of every episode
10:36
Speaker 1: are contractually obligated Trek Schoogle update.
10:39
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11:42
Speaker 1: Fam, All right, coming back here, tech Schouble. According to
11:52
Speaker 1: Foul Territory colleague Bob Nightingale, the Tigers will trade tech
11:57
Speaker 1: schouble if quote only if completely blown away. And that,
12:02
Speaker 1: lady and gentlemen, is your contra actually obligated tark schoogle
12:05
Speaker 1: trade market update. And I don't know about you, Cody,
12:09
Speaker 1: but I just helped, uh I just helped my dad
12:12
Speaker 1: take stuff down from the from the attic for Christmas
12:14
Speaker 1: or whatever.
12:15
Speaker 2: And he asked me.
12:17
Speaker 1: That question, just like my wife asked me that question,
12:20
Speaker 1: including you while we were it's still water, Oklahoma. And
12:23
Speaker 1: I'm sure you get that question a lot, and that's
12:25
Speaker 1: pretty much my answer. So I uh I don't have
12:28
Speaker 1: the insight sources of you guys, But that's my impression
12:31
Speaker 1: and that is our ark Schooble update student.
12:33
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more next week.
12:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can probably just keep that on repeat. I'll
12:39
Speaker 3: be interesting. Like winter meetings, There's gonna be a lot
12:41
Speaker 3: more talk. There's gonna be a lot more chatter. Will
12:43
Speaker 3: there be any other rumors? Will it be a completely
12:46
Speaker 3: fake rumor if one comes out. It's still early in
12:49
Speaker 3: this offseason. We just were we just talked about the
12:52
Speaker 3: pitching market. We're about to talk about it a little
12:54
Speaker 3: bit more. There is a chance that teams may become
12:58
Speaker 3: more aggressive before this is all said on Right now,
13:02
Speaker 3: I feel like that the idea of a Scubal trade
13:07
Speaker 3: seems less likely than it wasn't even at the start
13:09
Speaker 3: of the off season, just because the Tigers have shown
13:11
Speaker 3: no indication that they actually want to do that, only
13:15
Speaker 3: that perhaps they are here to listen. If a team
13:19
Speaker 3: actually ponies up a huge offer by the end of
13:21
Speaker 3: the off season, I'd kind of be surprised. But it's early.
13:25
Speaker 3: I think the Bob report is the proper way to
13:29
Speaker 3: look at it, and we're probably going to hear that
13:31
Speaker 3: line of thinking a few more times before all we're
13:33
Speaker 3: all said and done.
13:33
Speaker 1: Here, all right, Well that let's you know, stick with
13:37
Speaker 1: starting pitching here for a second. We know that that
13:39
Speaker 1: is I mean, that is a it's a need, and
13:43
Speaker 1: that is something that hurt them in the second half
13:46
Speaker 1: of the season with the collapse and then even into
13:48
Speaker 1: the into the playoffs with with how they kind of
13:51
Speaker 1: had to manage everything. You look at the starting pitcher market, Cody,
13:57
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's guys that are or like, if
14:01
Speaker 1: you want one right now, guess what you're gonna have
14:03
Speaker 1: to do what I was just talking about, You're gonna
14:05
Speaker 1: have to set the market. And we have we have
14:07
Speaker 1: a list of guys on on here. If you're watching
14:11
Speaker 1: on YouTube. If you have not, please subscribe on YouTube
14:14
Speaker 1: so we can continue to grow there. And Wednesday we
14:17
Speaker 1: did get the first ball to drop. Dylan c signed
14:20
Speaker 1: with Toronto seven years, two hundred and ten million. That's
14:23
Speaker 1: an average of a twenty six per And you know,
14:27
Speaker 1: we're still we're still you know, there's familiar names on
14:30
Speaker 1: this list. The Sures is, the Verlanders. You know, we've
14:33
Speaker 1: talked about uh, we've talked about Suarez, a couple of times,
14:37
Speaker 1: Michael King, you know somebody that we haven't talked about,
14:40
Speaker 1: Cody that that makes a lot of like sense in
14:45
Speaker 1: terms of topics that we've had in the history of
14:48
Speaker 1: doing this show.
14:49
Speaker 2: And that's from Bervaldez. Uh.
14:52
Speaker 1: You know, he's he's not. He's not going to return
14:55
Speaker 1: to Houston. And I know a couple of Houston fans
14:57
Speaker 1: in my life that are of the good riddance variety.
15:00
Speaker 1: But it's a veteran, it's a lefty forever that's worth.
15:05
Speaker 1: He's gonna come. Like because of his age age thirty two,
15:10
Speaker 1: he might be a hair cheaper than some of these
15:12
Speaker 1: other guys. There's the Houston connection.
15:15
Speaker 2: Why are we not?
15:17
Speaker 1: Why are we It's almost like a self reflective question,
15:20
Speaker 1: like why are we not talking about fromber?
15:22
Speaker 2: Like what like? Is there any specific.
15:24
Speaker 3: Reason, because it doesn't seem like the Tigers like to
15:28
Speaker 3: hand out large multi year deals, But that is the
15:30
Speaker 3: only reason we are talking about it. I think it's
15:32
Speaker 3: completely fair to bring this up more. You have a
15:36
Speaker 3: really good team. You have a playoff caliber team that
15:39
Speaker 3: could benefit from another frontline starter, assuming you're going to
15:44
Speaker 3: keep Trek's Schooble. Imagine a one two punch of Trek
15:47
Speaker 3: Scouble and from Bervaldez, where even Rangers swore as those
15:51
Speaker 3: are two left handed harms that could completely eviscerate some
15:55
Speaker 3: left handed teams. You know, it's pretty left handed. The
15:57
Speaker 3: Cleveland Guardians, your biggest rival in the division. I just
16:01
Speaker 3: don't know if I foresee the Tigers paying that sort
16:06
Speaker 3: of deal, especially to a pitcher. There's no real precedent
16:09
Speaker 3: for it in the Scott Harris era. Do they think
16:12
Speaker 3: it's worth it when you could go a little further
16:16
Speaker 3: down this list and get someone for two years and
16:20
Speaker 3: thirty million, is it worth paying Fromber five years one
16:23
Speaker 3: hundred and forty million? You know? Are there character concerns
16:27
Speaker 3: with Fromber? I don't know. The thing with his catcher
16:29
Speaker 3: last year was concerning. I do think aj Hinch has
16:33
Speaker 3: at least some familiar to garity there and does view
16:36
Speaker 3: himself as type of manager who can help smooth out
16:39
Speaker 3: such issues. But you look at the just going down
16:42
Speaker 3: this list, there's Fromber, there's Suorez, both really good pictures,
16:45
Speaker 3: both guys in their thirties who are going to command
16:48
Speaker 3: nine figure deals. Then there's Michael King, who the Tigers
16:51
Speaker 3: I believe still holds some interest in he remember he
16:54
Speaker 3: was kind of Ryan Helsley before Ryan Helsley, former converted reliever,
16:58
Speaker 3: a guy they have had their eyes on since the
17:01
Speaker 3: start of this offseason. That's maybe the last remaining thing
17:05
Speaker 3: to make me feel real good now, Hellsley. This is
17:08
Speaker 3: from Fangraft's roster resource, which is a great tool. He's
17:11
Speaker 3: being picked somewhere around the four years, eighty eight million
17:14
Speaker 3: dollar range, which is not as much as it was,
17:18
Speaker 3: but it's still kind of a lot. So would they
17:21
Speaker 3: do that? There are gonna be some other teams bidding
17:23
Speaker 3: on Michael King two. You go down the list. Tatsoya Emi,
17:27
Speaker 3: the best picture coming over from Japan. He could he
17:31
Speaker 3: could be somewhat interesting. He throws a splitter like the
17:33
Speaker 3: Tigers like. But I've talked to some scouts about Emi.
17:37
Speaker 3: The reviews are pretty mixed. Zach Gallon, can you untap something?
17:42
Speaker 3: Chris Bassett's Lokas Gilito, Merrill Kelly, you know, go down
17:47
Speaker 3: the list, Tyler Mally, Zach Lttel. These are all those
17:49
Speaker 3: guys who are the type of pitcher who's on the
17:52
Speaker 3: market every year that maybe wouldn't hurt, that maybe could help,
17:55
Speaker 3: especially Jack Flaherty was kind of one of these guys
17:58
Speaker 3: not long ago, and the Tiger's unlock and got more
18:01
Speaker 3: out of them. But I'd say limited upside and some
18:04
Speaker 3: pretty big downside when maybe all those guys. Cody Pond's
18:08
Speaker 3: a guy coming over from the KBO. He's gonna get
18:11
Speaker 3: a lot of money. Some teams really like him. There's
18:13
Speaker 3: been no word of the Tigers being on him. They're
18:15
Speaker 3: most surprised by that. Like a guy who's u reformed himself,
18:19
Speaker 3: you know, refined his delivery in the KBO comes back over.
18:23
Speaker 3: It seems like some of the Tigers could be on
18:25
Speaker 3: old friends. Verlander and Sures are right, or maybe we're
18:28
Speaker 3: not talking about that enough this time around. It seemed
18:32
Speaker 3: like the Tigers didn't have much interest in that this
18:35
Speaker 3: time a year ago. Maybe it was clubhouse stuff.
18:38
Speaker 1: Whatever.
18:39
Speaker 3: You have a team that's coming off back to back
18:40
Speaker 3: playoff appearances, if you need to plug a hole in
18:43
Speaker 3: the rotation, maybe that wouldn't be the worst thing ever.
18:46
Speaker 3: But if you're not gonna get from her or Ringer Suarez,
18:49
Speaker 3: I'd like to see the Tigers getting Michael King deal done.
18:52
Speaker 3: Otherwise you're just kind of rolling the dice. On any
18:56
Speaker 3: of these other guys in my opinion, Yeah.
19:00
Speaker 1: And the Tigers have done a good job. Good I
19:03
Speaker 1: think that's fair, good job of rolling the dice on
19:07
Speaker 1: on these pictures. And again that doesn't imply this there, Well,
19:12
Speaker 1: rolling the dice, good job, and rolling the dice does
19:14
Speaker 1: not mean that you're you know, rolling sevens every time.
19:18
Speaker 1: So like, so is that true? I don't play that game.
19:20
Speaker 1: Is that why you want sevens?
19:21
Speaker 2: Right?
19:22
Speaker 1: So? So so, yeah, it was Blackjack. I would have
19:26
Speaker 1: had a perfect analogy, but not much of a crass player.
19:29
Speaker 3: Alex Kyb was kind of like hitting on seventeen.
19:31
Speaker 1: I think, oh, yeah, you can't do that. You can't
19:35
Speaker 1: do that. But at the same at the same time,
19:38
Speaker 1: like like what I think what I'm looking for and
19:42
Speaker 1: I'm sure what Tigers fans are looking for, and just
19:45
Speaker 1: you know, baseball analysts would like to see, is okay,
19:49
Speaker 1: well they don't do this, they don't do that. Well,
19:52
Speaker 1: that made sense when you were ten years without a
19:55
Speaker 1: playoff appearance, and that made sense when you were like, okay,
19:58
Speaker 1: we just got this far. Let's kind of see what's
20:01
Speaker 1: what's We don't want to overextend ourselves after one playoff Berth. Well,
20:05
Speaker 1: now you're two back to back game five to the Alds.
20:08
Speaker 2: If there was ever a.
20:09
Speaker 1: Time to kind of be like, all right, we can
20:11
Speaker 1: we can keep our core like principles while still kind
20:15
Speaker 1: of leaning in a little bit this way, now would
20:19
Speaker 1: be the time. And then you throw in the schoogle
20:20
Speaker 1: element there like it makes uh, it makes all the
20:24
Speaker 1: sense in the world to me. All right, let's uh,
20:30
Speaker 1: let's pivot from pitching a little bit here, Cody and
20:33
Speaker 1: and go to another one of those you know reports
20:36
Speaker 1: out there, and you know again, shout out colleague Nightingale
20:40
Speaker 1: for for for.
20:40
Speaker 2: Putting this out there.
20:41
Speaker 1: He's talking about the Diamondbacks wanting to trade Catl Marte,
20:46
Speaker 1: and he said that the Tigers are among the teams
20:48
Speaker 1: quote on the radar for acquiring Marte services. So if
20:54
Speaker 1: you're if you don't stay up for West Coast Baseball
20:58
Speaker 1: and and you're a little bit unfamiliar with the situation
21:01
Speaker 1: with Marte, he is a he's an infielder with utility pass,
21:07
Speaker 1: but it's unclear exactly what that is for the future.
21:09
Speaker 2: He's thirty two years old.
21:11
Speaker 1: He is signed through twenty thirty at a very reasonable contract.
21:15
Speaker 1: Five years ninety one million left, and he does have
21:18
Speaker 1: a player option for eleven to five and twenty thirty one,
21:22
Speaker 1: which if he's any good, he's probably gonna decline that,
21:26
Speaker 1: but it is again years years down the line. He
21:29
Speaker 1: is thirteenth among position players Cody in War over the
21:32
Speaker 1: past three years with fifteen point three and if you
21:35
Speaker 1: look at his Baseball Savant page when it comes to hitting.
21:39
Speaker 2: It's a lot of red.
21:40
Speaker 1: It's a lot of red in there, and that would
21:44
Speaker 1: be a move at the Tiger that would feel sort
21:47
Speaker 1: of like a all in for the next several years
21:53
Speaker 1: type move of the Tigers were to make that. So
21:56
Speaker 1: before I get into some scenarios here, what is your
22:01
Speaker 1: reaction to Marte and the Tigers being connected at all?
22:05
Speaker 1: And then we can kind of peace out like where
22:08
Speaker 1: and how it could fit.
22:11
Speaker 3: I mean, our guy, Bob said the Tigers didn't want
22:13
Speaker 3: Sworez to leave Detroit before the trade deadline, and Suarez
22:17
Speaker 3: walked out of those doors and got on the bus.
22:19
Speaker 1: So I didn't come back though in the postseason, for
22:21
Speaker 1: the record, just.
22:22
Speaker 2: Saying he did.
22:26
Speaker 3: I'm a little more skeptical of this report. Largely, I
22:30
Speaker 3: think kitt Tell Marte is a very good player, sweat shitter.
22:33
Speaker 3: I think he could make a ton of sins except
22:35
Speaker 3: Glaber Torus is coming back. So Glaber Touris plays second base,
22:40
Speaker 3: to tell Marte plays second base? Where would Kittell Marte
22:44
Speaker 3: play If you traded him, you could move him around.
22:49
Speaker 3: He does have a utility history. I'm not sure he's
22:51
Speaker 3: been good at any of those positions other than second.
22:54
Speaker 3: He hasn't played much third. And you have Cole Keith,
22:57
Speaker 3: and you have Zach McKinstry, and you have Matt Feerling
22:59
Speaker 3: at third, and maybe you're still in on Alex Bregman
23:01
Speaker 3: or Boba shit. So that's all to say, like it
23:04
Speaker 3: would get complicated. I think it would almost have to
23:06
Speaker 3: mean moving. You could still trade glaber tour as actually
23:10
Speaker 3: a glabor or a Colt Keith, but I think it
23:16
Speaker 3: would have to be a complicated trade, in which case
23:18
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if it's actually worth it. I think
23:20
Speaker 3: it made a lot more sense before you had Glaber
23:21
Speaker 3: Torres for sure coming back.
23:27
Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple of things there, you is, is
23:31
Speaker 1: Glaber the same guy and the same stipulation guy go
23:37
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty six that he was in twenty twenty five.
23:39
Speaker 1: Does he now see like, because I'm sure they tiped
23:43
Speaker 1: the market before he accepted the QO, so like, does
23:46
Speaker 1: he now see like, Hey, if I have a little
23:49
Speaker 1: bit of versatility, can't can that add to you know?
23:52
Speaker 2: What would be like my last contract?
23:55
Speaker 3: And then it's like you didn't want him to play
23:56
Speaker 3: third base last season. It's for the record, I could
23:59
Speaker 3: always change, but last year they did not think his
24:02
Speaker 3: arm would do well over there.
24:04
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, we have.
24:09
Speaker 1: You have to kind of make some adjustments. It's kind
24:11
Speaker 1: of the theme of this whole off season. You have
24:13
Speaker 1: to make some adjustments to what you want or what
24:15
Speaker 1: you think is best or whatever if you want to
24:17
Speaker 1: take any sort of leap unless you just have such
24:20
Speaker 1: faith in your projections to get you there, which, given
24:25
Speaker 1: how the team hit at in the second half of
24:27
Speaker 1: the season, you have to tweak the formula anyway, right,
24:32
Speaker 1: So you might so you might as well this would
24:34
Speaker 1: this would like be one of those like outside the
24:37
Speaker 1: box creative type moves to improve your team, because there's
24:40
Speaker 1: no doubt that Marte on the Tigers makes them a
24:44
Speaker 1: much more dangerous team, all right, And then if you
24:47
Speaker 1: had and if you do have and if you can't
24:49
Speaker 1: configure an infield of a Marte and a Torres and
24:53
Speaker 1: a Torque, and then you know Bias McGonagall, you know
24:58
Speaker 1: McKinstry in there.
24:59
Speaker 2: Sometimes, like Keith.
25:01
Speaker 1: Like, it does not feel like an insurmannlable thing to
25:05
Speaker 1: make work, I guess would be, uh, what would be
25:08
Speaker 1: my position on that? And and again it's a very
25:12
Speaker 1: workable contract. He has his number one his best tools
25:16
Speaker 1: figure to age. Well, that's the number one thing I
25:18
Speaker 1: was looking for. It's like, oh, okay, is he like, is
25:21
Speaker 1: he a hell of a base runner? Well, actually no,
25:24
Speaker 1: he's on a hell of a base runner who's in
25:25
Speaker 1: the ten percentile and based running run value last season
25:29
Speaker 1: with a twenty nine percent tile sprint speed. Again, there
25:33
Speaker 1: there is some versus infield outfield versatility there too. So
25:37
Speaker 1: if you wanted to again sacrifice some defense, sacrifice a
25:41
Speaker 1: little speed and base running acumen, you could make this work.
25:45
Speaker 1: You would just kind of have to make uncomfortable decisions
25:48
Speaker 1: amongst yourselves as to how this would play out. But
25:51
Speaker 1: again I would have thought it was probably some uncomfortable
25:54
Speaker 1: decisions to bring in Torres in the first place last season.
25:58
Speaker 3: So on from Ken Rosenthal, remember when I said the
26:02
Speaker 3: Tigers weren't in on Cody Ponce, probably because he just
26:04
Speaker 3: signed a three year deal with the Toronto Blue Jays.
26:09
Speaker 1: Oh so does that take him off the market or
26:10
Speaker 1: now Toronto making moves?
26:12
Speaker 3: Blue Jays are good at taking.
26:13
Speaker 1: People Toronto making moves you're talking about? Are they gonna
26:19
Speaker 1: keep on? Hey, you haven't taste of success, you didn't
26:22
Speaker 1: get the ultimate You want more? More power to him,
26:25
Speaker 1: That's what that's what the sport's all about. Right, So yeah,
26:27
Speaker 1: pretty cool, pretty cool, little live reaction there, Cody. But
26:32
Speaker 1: but I will say this, Marte kind of been the
26:36
Speaker 1: same defensive player if you go by defensive war, which
26:40
Speaker 1: I know you hate, but kind of been basically the
26:42
Speaker 1: same defensive player's entire career. So it's not like there's
26:45
Speaker 1: some sort of decline as he's gotten older. And he
26:48
Speaker 1: was in the seventy four percentile in range last season,
26:52
Speaker 1: so like there is still ability in there. But again,
26:55
Speaker 1: the bat would be the main thing that you're getting.
26:57
Speaker 1: He does strike out at a high clip, he walked,
27:00
Speaker 1: had a good clip both in the eighty four eighty
27:02
Speaker 1: five percent. Tile doesn't chase, he squares up well, he
27:05
Speaker 1: has got good bat speed. All these things that seem
27:09
Speaker 1: to be appealing. He does, he does, and so if
27:14
Speaker 1: Arizona is willing to listen, I think the Tigers have
27:17
Speaker 1: you know fully capable of making a competitive offer, and
27:22
Speaker 1: I have some offers.
27:22
Speaker 2: Cody, would you Let's hear him.
27:24
Speaker 3: Let's hear him. I'm going to know what you're sending
27:25
Speaker 3: over there, because I'm I'm skeptical about this whole thing.
27:29
Speaker 2: All right, I got three of them.
27:30
Speaker 1: Number one, they want pitching, right, so you got you
27:36
Speaker 1: gotta give value to get value. Troy Melton, Sawyer Gibson
27:42
Speaker 1: Long and Max Anderson. So that's I think what we
27:47
Speaker 1: would say is a high end potential starting pitcher, a
27:54
Speaker 1: guy that's been you know, another picture starting pitcher or
27:57
Speaker 1: reliever that you could use in multiple facets. That it's
28:00
Speaker 1: young enough that you might be able to see if
28:02
Speaker 1: you're gon unlock something. And then friend of the podcast,
28:05
Speaker 1: I hate to do this because we talked about it,
28:07
Speaker 1: but Max Anderson, you gotta get It's because it's because
28:11
Speaker 1: I love you.
28:11
Speaker 2: Max, It's because I love you.
28:12
Speaker 1: You gotta like you gotta give value to get value.
28:16
Speaker 1: So that's trade number one. I just feel like this
28:19
Speaker 1: is again controllable contract. Really good player. You gotta give something.
28:23
Speaker 1: Melton is somebody that as high as high on him
28:28
Speaker 1: as I am. It's it feels like that's that's that's
28:33
Speaker 1: starting the conversation, But it would get there pretty quickly
28:36
Speaker 1: if you had a conversation with Arizona.
28:39
Speaker 3: I think Keer and you were sending the Diamondbacks appropriate
28:43
Speaker 3: value in return. I just don't think the Tigers would
28:46
Speaker 3: trade Troy Melton. I don't think I would want to
28:47
Speaker 3: trade Troy Melton. You are gonna lose likely Jack Flaherty,
28:52
Speaker 3: Casey Mayes, Turk Scouoble the free agency next year. Do
28:55
Speaker 3: you really want to trade your highest ceiling young starter
28:58
Speaker 3: outside of the ghost of Jackson Job. I just don't
29:03
Speaker 3: think I'd be comfortable too in that, And I.
29:08
Speaker 1: Think that's fair. I think that's fair. It would definitely
29:11
Speaker 1: be a hard one. But if you have the Tigers,
29:13
Speaker 1: you make it. Yeah, is that a discussion? If they
29:16
Speaker 1: say this is what we want, is that you have
29:17
Speaker 1: a meeting about it.
29:20
Speaker 3: I think it would probably tie into whatever meetings they
29:24
Speaker 3: had around the trade deadline. When it sure sounds like
29:26
Speaker 3: there was talk of Melton and maybe Sworez, So maybe
29:30
Speaker 3: you've already basically had that meeting and you don't need
29:33
Speaker 3: to do it again.
29:35
Speaker 2: All right, Well, there you go.
29:36
Speaker 1: Well then then then the negotiations, if they, if they
29:40
Speaker 1: do happen, should start. Shouldn't start from zero? Then next one,
29:47
Speaker 1: trade number two for the services of of catel Marte,
29:55
Speaker 1: cater Marterro, cater Montero, Malachi Witherspoon, and Tyler and Lorenzo.
30:03
Speaker 1: So that's again a current starting pitcher, a high draft
30:07
Speaker 1: pick starting pitcher who actually the Diamondbacks drafted out of
30:10
Speaker 1: high school before he went to Oklahoma. And Tyrone Lorenzo,
30:16
Speaker 1: a still high upside prospect who shine has worn off
30:20
Speaker 1: probably a little bit.
30:22
Speaker 2: So that's trade number two.
30:25
Speaker 3: Again. I like that you're sending some stuff over there.
30:28
Speaker 3: Cater Montero, though maybe he's expendable, he's a guy the
30:31
Speaker 3: Tigers like a lot. He's got some scouts around the
30:33
Speaker 3: league like a lot. Malchi Witherspoon, a fresh draft pick
30:38
Speaker 3: and a draft pick that the Tigers think could have
30:40
Speaker 3: a pretty solid ceiling. And Tyler Loronzo, who maybe has
30:44
Speaker 3: a limitedless ceiling, but he did hit two of six
30:47
Speaker 3: last year in Double A. So if you wanted to say, hey,
30:51
Speaker 3: we're going to move on from Lorenzo, send him some pitching.
30:56
Speaker 3: I don't hate it.
30:57
Speaker 2: I don't.
30:58
Speaker 3: I don't hate it. You would have to be a
31:01
Speaker 3: confident the Diamondbacks like Loronzo and be confident that you
31:05
Speaker 3: were actually willing to move a player of Tyler and
31:08
Speaker 3: Lorenzo caliber to get Ken tell Marte, who is not
31:11
Speaker 3: a rental. I do not hate that trade, all right.
31:17
Speaker 1: Again, you gotta I like Weatherspoon too, But I think
31:22
Speaker 1: you go long term, you go short term, long term,
31:26
Speaker 1: and then.
31:26
Speaker 2: You know, sort of like a lottery ticket on.
31:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, somewhat. What are the Diamondbacks trying to do? They've
31:32
Speaker 3: kind of tried to thread the needle for a while.
31:35
Speaker 3: Montero can help you next year, but you're you're getting
31:37
Speaker 3: a couple of prospects who are multiple years away otherwise.
31:40
Speaker 3: So I don't know if they would like that or not.
31:42
Speaker 3: I don't. They've been a tough organization to kind of
31:45
Speaker 3: peg in terms of direction for a while, and they've
31:48
Speaker 3: been very good actually at threading the needle and remaining
31:51
Speaker 3: at least somewhat relevant.
31:53
Speaker 1: And again, like the way I approach these trays, I
31:56
Speaker 1: guess and I saw a PSA here is that like,
31:59
Speaker 1: this is kind of I would consider the core. And
32:01
Speaker 1: then if there's like another piece from a you know,
32:04
Speaker 1: from Toledo that they want, and then you know they
32:07
Speaker 1: also send over some guy in high you know, a
32:11
Speaker 1: ball double a you know whatever. Just like this is
32:13
Speaker 1: like what I consider like the core of the trade,
32:15
Speaker 1: and then everything else I feel like could be trickled
32:17
Speaker 1: out of their interest. So this one, actually I say that,
32:22
Speaker 1: and this one might almost be the opposite, except maybe
32:24
Speaker 1: Arizona might have to send a little bit. Trade number
32:26
Speaker 1: three this is we're gonna get help now, and you're
32:31
Speaker 1: gonna get help now, and we're just gonna call it good.
32:36
Speaker 1: Casey Mice cold Keith so infielder under control for multiple years.
32:44
Speaker 1: Obviously ages are different, but that's a swap. And then
32:46
Speaker 1: Casey Mice a pitch, a starting pitcher, an all star
32:51
Speaker 1: on in expiring contracts. So if if part of this
32:54
Speaker 1: is financial, this is this is a hell of a
32:57
Speaker 1: financial deal of Arizona because again cold Keith is on
33:02
Speaker 1: a great contract and uh he also opens up long
33:06
Speaker 1: term of opportunities for Marte depending on what they want
33:09
Speaker 1: to do. And then again Casey May's expiring deal coming
33:13
Speaker 1: off an all star is just a cell high situation
33:17
Speaker 1: for the Tiger's front office, and honestly, like we can
33:20
Speaker 1: kind of get prospects on the fringe and all that stuff.
33:24
Speaker 1: I would kind of say, like this is this not
33:27
Speaker 1: take her or leave it, but this is kind of it.
33:29
Speaker 1: There's not gonna be there's not gonna be a lot
33:31
Speaker 1: of heavy negotiations if this is offered.
33:34
Speaker 2: In my opinion, like this is what we offer.
33:37
Speaker 1: We can rough out the edges, but this is kind
33:40
Speaker 1: of the core of it.
33:43
Speaker 3: Well, I like where you're going with this trade because
33:45
Speaker 3: I almost think the Tigers were to trade for ktel Marte,
33:47
Speaker 3: it would almost have to include cold Keith. A Cole
33:51
Speaker 3: Keith is a player the Diamondbacks like, and ascending young
33:54
Speaker 3: hitter has some defensive versatility. You are trading away a
34:00
Speaker 3: more veteran overall better player who's a switch hitter who
34:03
Speaker 3: has some defensive versatility as well. The Tigers would they
34:07
Speaker 3: do that?
34:08
Speaker 2: I don't know.
34:09
Speaker 3: I don't know that Scott Harris would trade col Keith,
34:12
Speaker 3: but to get a player who can maybe be of
34:15
Speaker 3: a more immediate impact in twenty twenty six, man, I
34:20
Speaker 3: see it, and I think it would make sense. It
34:22
Speaker 3: would suddenly provide a potential home for either Kittel Marte
34:26
Speaker 3: or gliber Torres to play some third base. It would
34:29
Speaker 3: make that whole song and dance a lot easier to
34:33
Speaker 3: actually get the deal done. Is Casey Miz the guy
34:35
Speaker 3: you throw in. I'm less sure of that. Hey, the Tigers.
34:39
Speaker 3: Tigers don't have that much pitching. This would create another
34:43
Speaker 3: hole you have to fill in next season's rotation. And
34:48
Speaker 3: he's only there for one year. So how interested are
34:50
Speaker 3: the Diamondbacks? I wonder if you could do this, if
34:53
Speaker 3: you threw in Sawyer, Gibson Long or made it instead
34:56
Speaker 3: of Miz, made it Cater Montero and swear you're get
35:00
Speaker 3: and Long, then you're sending three players back from one.
35:02
Speaker 3: Is that too much for the Tigers? Depends on your
35:04
Speaker 3: scout on those guys. But I think a deal that
35:07
Speaker 3: included Colt Keith and some some form of pitching would
35:12
Speaker 3: not be out of the realm of possibility. Maybe that's
35:15
Speaker 3: just because I like old fashioned baseball trades, but if
35:20
Speaker 3: you really wanted to do it, I think that would
35:23
Speaker 3: be the route to go.
35:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again it's uh, you have to This ought
35:32
Speaker 1: to be a trade that if you send offers or
35:36
Speaker 1: if you even complete it. This is a trade that
35:39
Speaker 1: you should be uncomfortable with a little bit, and.
35:41
Speaker 2: That's okay, that's okay.
35:43
Speaker 1: I'd say it in general, not just like what I
35:45
Speaker 1: because you're gonna have to give up something you like,
35:47
Speaker 1: Like this is something that you're gonna have to be like, okay,
35:51
Speaker 1: is it worth it? Double check the numbers, you know,
35:53
Speaker 1: talk to the scouts like what you know, blah blah
35:55
Speaker 1: blah blah, Like you have to make sure like I would,
35:58
Speaker 1: I think, and I think this is a trade that
36:00
Speaker 1: you would have to sweat out, and that's okay. I
36:02
Speaker 1: think sometimes when you make big moves, you have to
36:04
Speaker 1: sweat them out, and that's okay.
36:06
Speaker 3: So there's ultimately why I'm not sure it's gonna happen regardless.
36:13
Speaker 1: Well, uh, we're sweating out this offseason, Cody, I can
36:17
Speaker 1: tell you that much, because we're trying to We're trying
36:19
Speaker 1: to see if the Tigers are gonna make any uh
36:22
Speaker 1: any any headlining news and and we'll find out at
36:25
Speaker 1: least a little bit more here in the next week.
36:27
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about more trades on Friday to try
36:32
Speaker 1: to you know, see like does this make sense. Does
36:34
Speaker 1: that make sense? Because that's really what all we can
36:37
Speaker 1: do right now? Does this make sense? And then and
36:39
Speaker 1: then kind of go from there and and we we
36:41
Speaker 1: have enough track record with this with this front office
36:43
Speaker 1: to say like it's not like nothing's off the table,
36:47
Speaker 1: but you can get creative with it because they have
36:50
Speaker 1: done it before.
36:50
Speaker 2: So try to get ahead of that market a little.
36:52
Speaker 1: Bit, all right, Cody, anything else before we jet out
36:55
Speaker 1: of here?
36:56
Speaker 3: No, that that covers it all, all right?
36:59
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