Latest / Rise and Thrive with Dr. J. Nicole Podcast / NAVIGATING THE DATING LANDSCAPE: RED AND GREEN FLAGS WITH DR. NYASHA CHIKOWORE

Transcript

NAVIGATING THE DATING LANDSCAPE: RED AND GREEN FLAGS WITH DR. NYASHA CHIKOWORE · Rise and Thrive with Dr. J. Nicole Podcast

• 0:16
  I am joined by a long time friend of mine.
• 0:20
  She's also my soror and my sand and she is a very talented
• 0:26
  clinician. Today we have Doctor Nayasha
• 0:29
  Chicawore with us and we're going to be talking dating, red
• 0:34
  flags, ring bags and all the mess that's in between.
• 0:39
  Thank you. Thanks for having me.
• 0:43
  Yes, it's always a pleasure and I love having friends in the
• 0:46
  studio with me. So we can, you know, do the
• 0:49
  things and have a good time as well.
• 0:55
  All right, so let's just get into this.
• 0:56
  So we've all probably dated someone that we had to explain
• 1:00
  some things and when people are asked like how did you not see
• 1:04
  that? Or after you stop dating them,
• 1:07
  they're like, Oh well, I saw blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 1:10
  blah. And you're like, why ain't
• 1:11
  nobody tell me, right? So in your opinion, Doctor
• 1:18
  Nyasha, I'll start calling you Nyasha in a little bit.
• 1:24
  Doctor Nyasha, why are red flags so easy to spot in hindsight but
• 1:30
  very blurry in the moment? Well, I mean, it's love
• 1:36
  depending on the level, you know, the relationship you were
• 1:39
  in. But it's infatuation, love, all
• 1:42
  those lovey dovey hormones that we get, the dopamine, the
• 1:45
  adrenaline that keeps us hooked on people, which is why people
• 1:49
  say love is like a drug or mental illness, either one,
• 1:52
  because all those things are firing in our brains that make
• 1:55
  us blind, so to speak, to the red flags.
• 2:00
  Yeah. OK.
• 2:02
  So did you just break down why people say love is blind?
• 2:05
  Pretty much, yeah. OK, Yeah, right.
• 2:08
  Obviously. But you gave a high level.
• 2:12
  That was all we we just get blinded to the true facts that
• 2:16
  are in front of us. Absolutely.
• 2:19
  So basically we're thinking we're in love.
• 2:21
  We're basically hopped up on feel good hormones and we're
• 2:25
  just looking for the next fix. Do you think at all there?
• 2:28
  Do you think it's intuition people are ignoring or something
• 2:31
  else? That's a tough question.
• 2:36
  I think there's so many factors and layers, right?
• 2:39
  So we think about, especially as people who do this mental health
• 2:43
  work, we ask people about their backgrounds and upbringing.
• 2:45
  So what did you see growing up, especially as it relates to
• 2:49
  love? So some of it is just learned
• 2:53
  modeled behavior of this is what happens when you meet a
• 2:57
  significant other and this is how it should go.
• 2:59
  Some of it is that, you know, ignoring the red flags, some of
• 3:04
  it is like, do you have intuition and do you listen to
• 3:08
  it? Because, OK, everyone has
• 3:10
  varying levels of that. And some of it is just who are
• 3:13
  you involved with and what are their goals in the situation?
• 3:17
  Because we also know people can manipulate others or, you know,
• 3:22
  there's various levels of coercion and whatnot.
• 3:25
  So that's a loaded question in terms of like what happens when
• 3:30
  people get involved with other people.
• 3:33
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:34
  I like that you mentioned the background, right, Because
• 3:37
  that's that's what normalizes things for us, right?
• 3:40
  Because we either repeat when we're unaware of like behaviors
• 3:44
  and cycles and things like that. And then sometimes we actively
• 3:48
  choose to change it. And then, you know, sometimes we
• 3:51
  are operating in the middle of those two things that sometimes
• 3:54
  you're not aware until someone brings it to your attention.
• 3:57
  And dating, it's definitely going to show up.
• 3:59
  And dating and friendships because those are closest
• 4:01
  relationships after family. So in your opinion, what are the
• 4:06
  most commonly ignored red flags that people tend to see early in
• 4:11
  dating? I can't think of specific ones.
• 4:17
  I think that they're the most common theme that I've seen is
• 4:22
  I'm not comfortable with this thing, but I'm going to push
• 4:27
  through or insert excuse here so he doesn't call me back when he
• 4:33
  says he will. But I'm sure it's because XYZ.
• 4:37
  So I need to just change my expectations.
• 4:42
  Oh, so that's adapting, right? And it's OK to do some adapting
• 4:48
  in relationships, but if you're the only one adapting, are your
• 4:53
  needs being met? Are you really being present in
• 4:56
  the relationship? Yeah, I think there's adapting,
• 4:59
  but also not getting your needs met in the relationship or in
• 5:05
  the dating. OK, this.
• 5:07
  He's not going to do this or she's not going to do this.
• 5:10
  So I just won't expect that and I'm not happy about it, but I'm
• 5:13
  going to push it to the side until everyone reaches their
• 5:16
  boiling point or point of this being tired.
• 5:20
  And I think you're correct. Sometimes it can be a boiling
• 5:23
  point and they think it's the fault of the other person. 1
• 5:26
  really is their own for not expressing right?
• 5:29
  Because what is not expressed can easily become resentment.
• 5:33
  And then that shows up in our behaviours and in the
• 5:36
  relationship. And So what I hear you saying is
• 5:38
  that what I hear is also that sometimes people are settling to
• 5:45
  be in relationship. They're going along to get
• 5:48
  along. Yeah.
• 5:49
  I've had countless people, just friends and in sessions say,
• 5:53
  like, I don't know what's on the other side of this.
• 5:56
  I don't want to go back to dating.
• 5:58
  I don't want to be alone. So it is like, this is better
• 6:03
  than nothing. And, yeah, caused a lot of harm.
• 6:10
  Yeah, something is better than nothing is settling.
• 6:14
  And I wonder if people heard the language that that is settling,
• 6:19
  if that would change things for them because they're essentially
• 6:24
  going with what they know, what they understand.
• 6:26
  They're comfortable with this because they know what to expect
• 6:29
  and it's familiar. But like you said, it can be
• 6:31
  very damaging for all parties involved.
• 6:34
  But some people are also taught that settling is OK.
• 6:38
  Like, yeah, some people are told like, you will never get the
• 6:41
  full package, which of course no one gets the full package.
• 6:45
  But you know, your happiness doesn't matter.
• 6:48
  Like your obligation is to be with another person because that
• 6:54
  tells us what you're worth is, you know, if you're single,
• 6:57
  what's the problem? Why are you single?
• 7:00
  Why can't you attract a mate? So that's a whole other episode
• 7:05
  in itself, right, about the pressures of dating and then
• 7:10
  value being based on your relationship status.
• 7:15
  We're almost marriage is marriage is put on this
• 7:17
  pedestal. And for some people, it is an
• 7:20
  idol. Like this is what they do.
• 7:22
  And then they get there and they find out.
• 7:24
  May not be all that is cracked up to be like, you checked out
• 7:27
  the boxes, but is this what you were really looking for?
• 7:30
  But yeah, we could definitely dive into that one more for
• 7:35
  sure. Oh, Speaking of like people not
• 7:40
  calling and doing what they say they would do, Why do these
• 7:44
  things like inconsistency, emotional distance or even those
• 7:48
  mixed signals? Why are why do you think those
• 7:50
  things are labeled as normal in dating now?
• 7:55
  So that's a tough one. Well, we all have phones, so we
• 7:59
  all really do have 24/7 access to people.
• 8:02
  So, you know, I think there's this big push for like, free
• 8:07
  will autonomy. You know, we're in a very
• 8:11
  individualistic society being, you know, in the States and in
• 8:14
  Western places where like, you have to take care of you and
• 8:19
  that's the main thing that matters.
• 8:20
  So yeah, I don't have to respond to your text.
• 8:24
  I don't owe you a call back just because you called me.
• 8:27
  You know, like there's just been this big push for people to be
• 8:31
  individuals and go no contact with family and to not feel
• 8:36
  obligated to other people. And I think that's showing up a
• 8:39
  lot in the dating space where it's like, you know, boundaries,
• 8:42
  boundaries shut off your phone at this time or just because I'm
• 8:46
  posting doesn't mean I want to talk to you.
• 8:48
  So I see that showing up a lot just in navigating communication
• 8:55
  in general. Yeah, that's so good, Nyasha.
• 8:59
  I just thought about that when like you probably saw my eyes
• 9:02
  get big on the disc because I'm scrolling.
• 9:03
  Like it doesn't mean I'm available because we do have so
• 9:06
  much access and all these indicators to show our presence
• 9:12
  online. People can take things
• 9:14
  personally. Like I'm not scrolling because
• 9:16
  I'd rather be talking to someone else than you as much as someone
• 9:20
  might be scrolling because they're like, I'm just trying to
• 9:23
  catch up and see what happened today or I'm just doing
• 9:26
  something to pass some time. And people can definitely
• 9:29
  internalize that to me. Something else and don't give
• 9:32
  people an opportunity to explain, right?
• 9:37
  And Speaking of emotional distance, I've noticed something
• 9:41
  people don't ask for phone numbers the way that they used
• 9:44
  to. They ask for your socials now
• 9:46
  more Speaking of distance, what are your thoughts on that?
• 9:50
  I was just having that conversation with someone the
• 9:52
  other day and we're talking about how when you get someone's
• 9:56
  phone number, it seems too intentional in a way because I
• 10:02
  have to use it. I have to text you or call you.
• 10:07
  And that's very direct communication.
• 10:09
  Whereas if I get your Instagram, you know, if you pop up on my
• 10:13
  feed, I could see, look what Jeannie's doing, OK, Like, and
• 10:17
  then I can go on about my business.
• 10:19
  But if I say, hey, Jeannie via text, then we're in a
• 10:23
  conversation and I'm kind of locked in versus social media,
• 10:27
  which technically it's low effort and I still am in touch
• 10:31
  with you even though I'm not in touch with you.
• 10:33
  So I think that's why people are preferring social media.
• 10:38
  And you're less likely to be rejected if someone asks for
• 10:41
  your Instagram or LinkedIn or whatever they're asking for
• 10:45
  versus a phone number, you know, OK, OK, so you have to, if
• 10:55
  someone even swirling you're like ask for my number, please.
• 10:59
  I don't have time for for real, Like ask for my number.
• 11:03
  OK, please. But hey, if all that's that's
• 11:07
  what you asked for, you got to ask for the number you asked for
• 11:09
  the socials. OK.
• 11:10
  And then I'm, I might be looking at you a little different after
• 11:13
  hearing Doctor Nyasha's advice about intentionality.
• 11:16
  No, the first step is the socials.
• 11:20
  And they're like, OK, let me look around.
• 11:22
  I do know some men look at women's Instagrams to see, OK,
• 11:26
  what kind of person is she? What is she posting?
• 11:29
  Who is she friends with? Do we have mutuals that I need
• 11:32
  to know about? And then they'll go from there
• 11:34
  and ask for a number in your DMS and maybe that's, you know,
• 11:39
  easier for them. So people are doing a whole lot
• 11:43
  more research, wait to before they even get to a text message
• 11:49
  or even a phone call. Yeah, this is interesting.
• 11:52
  So people shouldn't be offended if someone asks for their
• 11:55
  socials and not their numbers. That's just how we doing it now.
• 11:58
  Is that what it is? I think we know that should is a
• 12:00
  bad word in psychology world. So I won't say shouldn't be.
• 12:04
  I think it depends on what you prefer and what you know, what
• 12:09
  you would like to happen. OK.
• 12:12
  I think it's also OK to say, hey, I don't give people my
• 12:14
  social. If you want to reach out to me,
• 12:16
  here's my phone number. I think it's something to say
• 12:19
  that. So that's good.
• 12:22
  So it's OK to say what you prefer.
• 12:24
  And that's a good way to start normalizing and implementing
• 12:28
  boundaries early because boundaries aren't about keeping
• 12:31
  people out. They're also about, you know,
• 12:33
  allowing people in. So talk to me in your opinion,
• 12:37
  how you think, how do people confuse chemistry, attraction
• 12:41
  and familiarity to be emotional safe?
• 12:47
  Again, a tough question. I think, you know, in terms of
• 12:51
  like the upbringing piece we're talking about, you know, if
• 12:54
  you're in a chaotic household, they see that you may be more
• 12:58
  chaos as you age and grow up. It could be like, oh, I'm
• 13:04
  compatible with this person because I feel comfortable.
• 13:07
  It feels, you know, we've all heard someone say, it feels like
• 13:09
  I've known this person my whole life and what was happening in
• 13:13
  your whole life chaos. So this person brings that same
• 13:18
  energy and you're like, this is great.
• 13:19
  I like this. But on the outside, your friends
• 13:22
  are like, this is not, this is not it.
• 13:26
  This isn't healthy for you. But I think that's the hard part
• 13:29
  when we say we get butterflies and chemistry because sometimes
• 13:34
  that's an indication that we're being triggered by that comfort
• 13:39
  of trauma or chaos or whatever was going on in our upbringing
• 13:43
  or from one parent or another. That just isn't healthy for us.
• 13:48
  And we're recognizing that in someone else.
• 13:50
  That makes sense. Yeah.
• 13:52
  Yeah. To me, that makes perfect sense.
• 13:54
  And it made me think of something, I think Doctor Spirit
• 13:57
  said it, where she said a person is either going to be a wound
• 14:01
  mate or a healing mate. I think that's how she said it.
• 14:05
  But the wound part is what really stuck with me.
• 14:08
  So basically you're going to either get better and heal with
• 14:10
  this person or they're going to continue to wound you.
• 14:13
  And I never thought about it. And that very much aligns with
• 14:17
  the, I feel like I've known you my whole life.
• 14:20
  And if you're growing up in chaos, that chaos is normal or
• 14:25
  people created in a seemingly everything is going great.
• 14:29
  Has anybody or have you? And I'll say I've definitely
• 14:31
  experienced it before where I've dated.
• 14:34
  Everything is going well. And then they do something that
• 14:37
  disrupts and it starts the breakdown of things.
• 14:41
  Yeah, well, speak more to that. What do you mean?
• 14:45
  Like they do something like they break the pattern.
• 14:50
  They don't follow through on what they said they would do.
• 14:53
  They've been consistent or they they basically do something that
• 15:01
  breaks the way the rhythm of things instead of communicating.
• 15:07
  Hey, this feels like this is getting pretty serious.
• 15:11
  Can we slow this down or like let's talk about it or what have
• 15:15
  you. But instead they pull away in
• 15:17
  some way, whether they are no longer or they're, they slow
• 15:21
  down the frequency of seeing each other.
• 15:23
  They intentionally insert a pause.
• 15:26
  And some of that I recognize is regular relationship testing.
• 15:30
  But for someone, and I know earlier in my life, I've
• 15:33
  definitely operated more on the anxious side of attachment.
• 15:37
  So for someone with more of an anxious attachment, a sudden
• 15:40
  change, we're like, what's going on?
• 15:43
  What's going on, right? And we're going to lean in.
• 15:46
  But that's also an indicator that you might be dealing with
• 15:48
  an avoidant or just somebody trying to figure out, OK, what
• 15:51
  am I doing? I've been speaking with this
• 15:53
  person, regular, regular, going back to intention, which you
• 15:57
  were saying earlier, what are my intentions?
• 15:59
  I didn't think I wanted to be with nobody.
• 16:02
  I thought I was just having a good time.
• 16:03
  Why am I having these thoughts? So there's so much that I
• 16:06
  understand now on the backside, but people will intentionally do
• 16:11
  this and it's to avoid hurt is what I've been able to find out
• 16:15
  in some instances. And having some real dialogue
• 16:19
  with people to find out like why that happened or even just with
• 16:24
  clients when the self sabotage is showing up.
• 16:29
  I was like, this is your attachment style.
• 16:30
  Like you're, you're sabotaging it because this is different
• 16:34
  from what you know and it's scary.
• 16:37
  And so you want to recreate patterns that, you know, that
• 16:41
  you know how to operate in. Yeah.
• 16:43
  Yeah. More layers.
• 16:44
  I mean, I'm hearing attachment style.
• 16:46
  I'm hearing to an extent. I mean, I don't think
• 16:49
  everything, you know, we have this, like, term now called
• 16:53
  therapy speak where everyone online is explaining what's
• 16:57
  happening. Oh, this person is a narcissist.
• 16:59
  This person is avoidantly attached and all these things
• 17:03
  that yes, makes sense, except the narcissist because that's,
• 17:08
  you know, layered. But sometimes people just don't
• 17:10
  want to do the thing, you know, they don't want to put in the
• 17:13
  work. And then there's that they don't
• 17:15
  like you enough to do it or they don't want to have to break up
• 17:21
  or reject. I know, you know, I, I see a lot
• 17:24
  of male clients and this is just across the board, male and
• 17:27
  female clients. And this is LGBTQ friendly as
• 17:31
  well in that, you know, I don't want to break up with this
• 17:34
  person. So I'm going to wait till
• 17:36
  they're tired. I'm just going to be in my
• 17:40
  corner until they decide this is enough.
• 17:44
  So they don't want to say the words.
• 17:45
  They don't want to cause that pain, you know, But they are
• 17:50
  causing pain by withdrawing, not being direct, being half hearted
• 17:56
  in efforts, not wanting to be the, you know, the one who makes
• 18:03
  it final. So there's a bunch of, so then
• 18:08
  there's a bunch of little breaks helping that you, like, get the
• 18:13
  clue. And it's like, that has to be
• 18:15
  exhausting, right? That like that is a person who
• 18:18
  really and truly avoids conflict on a whole other level.
• 18:22
  Yeah, yeah. Conflict.
• 18:24
  Yeah, I've seen it. I've definitely seen it.
• 18:27
  Where And then especially watching some of the dating
• 18:30
  shows where people act one way and then a complete other when
• 18:35
  they're talking to other people, when it's just like if you just
• 18:37
  tell them and let them know, they'd be fine.
• 18:40
  Like you, not all that that you think that you are sometime.
• 18:45
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 18:47
  And also there are people who just have a connection and don't
• 18:50
  want to lose it, but also don't. Yeah.
• 18:53
  You know, they don't want to work it either, but it's so it's
• 18:56
  like you have to make a choice in some instances, but if you
• 19:00
  don't have to, when a person continues to allow access, then
• 19:03
  that's completely different, right?
• 19:05
  So there's so many different things that obviously play into
• 19:09
  dating, and we always have a choice in how we react.
• 19:13
  And self-awareness is so important, which is why I think
• 19:16
  everybody needs to go to therapy at least once.
• 19:19
  I really and truly do at least once.
• 19:21
  And one time is really not going to get it.
• 19:23
  You need, like, at least, I mean, got to commit to at least
• 19:27
  6 to 8 weeks. I don't mean or like 1.
• 19:30
  I don't mean one session. I'm just saying at least one
• 19:32
  time in life, whether it's 10 sessions or 5 or 30, you know,
• 19:39
  you should engage with a therapist.
• 19:42
  Yes. An engagement does not mean one
• 19:45
  time. Yeah, preferably not, unless
• 19:48
  you're just doing an evaluation maybe.
• 19:50
  Right. And then that makes sense.
• 19:52
  So along those lines, what do you think is the psychological
• 19:56
  cost of constantly giving someone the benefit of the
• 19:59
  doubt? So dating continuing to date the
• 20:03
  red flag and not get your needs met that way when that back it
• 20:07
  broke up a little bit. So you said, what is the cost of
• 20:11
  the psychological cost of continuing to date, constantly
• 20:14
  giving someone the benefit of the doubt?
• 20:16
  Yep, essentially continuing to date somebody.
• 20:18
  Yeah, a lot of things I've seen, obviously depression, anxiety in
• 20:26
  some cases, I mean, stress is triggered.
• 20:30
  Stress can sometimes trigger other physical ailments.
• 20:34
  I've known people going through divorces or separations have
• 20:39
  developed illnesses like seizures and migraines and all
• 20:45
  kinds of stuff that they never thought they would have had, but
• 20:49
  their relationship made them sick.
• 20:51
  People not being able to work, using money.
• 20:55
  It's a plethora of things. So there's, there's a lot of
• 20:58
  psychological, physical, sometimes financial costs to get
• 21:03
  involved with certain people who aren't good for you.
• 21:08
  Yeah. And it's not just like Lifetime
• 21:11
  movie, you know, like it's real life, except people aren't
• 21:14
  always talking about it. And a lot of times you're only
• 21:17
  Privy to it when you know that person or if they, you know,
• 21:23
  decide to share on some sort of platform.
• 21:27
  Because you're absolutely right. Just the cost of it and stress
• 21:30
  and cortisol and what that does at our oddities and how it's
• 21:34
  connected to so many things and a bad, an unhealthy relationship
• 21:39
  can aid you. It absolutely can aid you.
• 21:43
  Like I've seen people get out of certain relationships or out of
• 21:48
  marriages and they look like the clock rolled back, skins go
• 21:53
  away, they lose weight, the hair is, you know, growing fuller,
• 21:58
  they're doing better and careers.
• 21:59
  So you start to see all these things.
• 22:02
  And I also think too, we see people, we see this because
• 22:07
  people are focused and more investing in self, which might
• 22:11
  be indicator that they were neglecting themselves in the
• 22:13
  relationship or they were in a in a relationship that was
• 22:19
  unequal, you know? Yeah.
• 22:21
  In terms of a lot of like the emotional and mental work that
• 22:25
  goes into sustaining a relationship that could lead to
• 22:28
  1 abandoning themselves or not putting themselves first.
• 22:32
  Yeah, yeah, that's the cost is that you abandon yourself and
• 22:37
  your overall well-being and the other person is fine 9 times out
• 22:42
  of 10. Yeah.
• 22:44
  So if there's confusion in the early stages of dating, do you
• 22:48
  think it gets better or worse? You know, I always tell people
• 22:55
  what seems to be a little problem now is going to get
• 22:59
  bigger. So if he is not answering the
• 23:03
  phone or not he or she, let me not predict if he or she is not
• 23:09
  answering the phone or not being consistent, that's going to
• 23:14
  continue. And it may be they're not paying
• 23:17
  a bill now or they're not showing up to the events that
• 23:21
  matter or significant things in your life.
• 23:24
  So I would say definitely pay attention.
• 23:27
  But I think something you said earlier can also be helpful in
• 23:30
  terms of like speaking up. People also need to know like,
• 23:33
  hey, this is not OK. You not contacting me for days
• 23:36
  is not going to work for me. And there is room for that
• 23:39
  person to change potentially if they want to be, they're going
• 23:45
  to make an effort. So I think it's just about the
• 23:49
  balance of, like, speaking up and also paying attention to
• 23:52
  what someone does or doesn't do. Yeah.
• 23:56
  And so many people, like you said, they've been conditioned
• 23:59
  to settle. And, like, that's been made, OK.
• 24:02
  But also just the fear that a person will leave.
• 24:04
  And so they're not speaking up to say what their needs are.
• 24:08
  And they're going along because they're like, well, this is
• 24:11
  better than nobody's not going to get better than this, right?
• 24:15
  This person. But you could have a better
• 24:18
  experience with that person if you actually showed up and
• 24:22
  expressed your needs. I think that also goes for like
• 24:26
  the people who are on the other end of that.
• 24:30
  They see one sign of, you know, an ick or the red flag.
• 24:34
  And then they they're like, all right, I'm done.
• 24:36
  You're blocked smoke. All you see is the dust.
• 24:39
  They are gone. Yeah.
• 24:41
  Those people can relax a little bit, you know, and also express
• 24:45
  their needs and say, hey, this is what works for me.
• 24:50
  How can we move forward? They're just going to be
• 24:54
  blocking everybody and not doing what you.
• 24:59
  Yeah, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.
• 25:01
  And we want to be in the middle, right?
• 25:03
  We want to be able to see what those things are not so quick to
• 25:06
  run, but also not so quick to just bend all of the time to
• 25:11
  everything to just be in relationship.
• 25:14
  So how do you. So they say like, you know, the
• 25:17
  body keeps score is one of those.
• 25:19
  What's a book? But it's also a real thing,
• 25:21
  right? The body does keep score.
• 25:22
  So how does the body, like, let us know when something is off
• 25:27
  and dating, even if everything looks good on paper?
• 25:32
  Well, the butterflies. So some people have different
• 25:35
  theories on the butterflies. Some people say that's anxiety
• 25:38
  showing up and a warning that you should abort missions.
• 25:42
  And some people will say like this, how I know I like somebody
• 25:44
  because I have butterflies and I'm feeling the thing.
• 25:47
  So I'm not going to say it's either or.
• 25:51
  But I will say like if there's anxiety popping up, that is
• 25:54
  something to pay attention to, even if they're butterflies.
• 25:58
  But sometimes those butterflies disappear and it's just anxious
• 26:01
  energy leftover. Paying attention to your energy
• 26:07
  in general, Like does it increase?
• 26:10
  Does it decrease when you're around that person?
• 26:13
  Because some people do kind of siphon energy from us, we find
• 26:17
  we're doing the emotional labor and they're benefiting from it.
• 26:21
  So if it feels like you're tired and drained after dealing with
• 26:24
  that person, even though you're happy for UN quote, that's
• 26:27
  something to pay attention to as well.
• 26:30
  You know, when things change in a way that aren't, that's just
• 26:35
  not great. Like once people start pointing
• 26:37
  out you used to do this, but now you're doing this, is everything
• 26:41
  OK? Or especially like those people
• 26:44
  that abandoned friendships or you don't hear from them
• 26:47
  anymore, you want to check in on that.
• 26:51
  Like if you find you're not talking to your friends or
• 26:54
  you're changing your habits so much to acquiesce to the other
• 26:57
  person's schedule, those are things that you want to be aware
• 27:03
  of. I always find that sleep is the
• 27:06
  biggest thing two say more if you can't sleep, I know we get
• 27:12
  excited and we're happy, but if you can't sleep because you're
• 27:16
  worried that they haven't called you back, you don't know where
• 27:19
  they are or they're making you stay up late hours, not just
• 27:25
  have fun or dates, but like because something's not right,
• 27:30
  that's a problem. So paying attention to sleep and
• 27:35
  being, of course, there's the excitement, but excitement wears
• 27:40
  off after a while and it turns into something.
• 27:47
  Yeah. And I love how you said that it
• 27:49
  can start as excitement. And sometimes our body will
• 27:52
  respond to excitement and anxiousness in similar ways, but
• 27:56
  we have to label it based on the context that we're experiencing
• 28:00
  to know the difference. So I could see how someone can
• 28:03
  have butterflies both ways. And it's good for someone
• 28:06
  because meeting someone I knew there could be some anxiety
• 28:09
  about will this person reject me?
• 28:11
  Will this person is, are they going to come?
• 28:13
  You know, are they going to pull up on me?
• 28:16
  So there's different things that people could feel.
• 28:18
  But if you're consistently feeling it, and I think too, I
• 28:21
  agree. If you're experiencing some of
• 28:24
  those other symptoms that you're talking about, like waiting up
• 28:27
  or like, well, we're a little bit older now.
• 28:30
  We're people are now like at the club for real, but people can
• 28:33
  stay out late. So they say, hey, I'm going to
• 28:36
  call you on the drive home and then they don't call you.
• 28:41
  And sometimes people, you know, they're freaking out the next
• 28:43
  day or they're staying up, they're checking their phone.
• 28:46
  This person just went and had fun and they crashed out because
• 28:49
  they were tired. And then we can turn it into
• 28:53
  something else. While I was worried about you,
• 28:54
  they just got home late like they were tired.
• 28:58
  There are some things that are small that we make so big.
• 29:01
  And I think too sometimes people, they overplay a part too
• 29:07
  early. They're too consistent, too
• 29:09
  early, too available too early. So then that shapes a person's
• 29:14
  expectations and how things will go.
• 29:17
  And it's not something that's sustainable.
• 29:20
  And they don't. I don't think people mean harm.
• 29:22
  It's different when somebody's doing it to love bomb to get
• 29:25
  that access with ease. And Speaking of which, talk to
• 29:30
  me a little bit about like love bombing and just in case they
• 29:35
  are listeners. So that's another term, one of
• 29:37
  those therapy speaks that's being thrown around.
• 29:40
  And we want to make sure that they have a healthy working
• 29:43
  definition of what love bombing is.
• 29:45
  Yeah. So love bombing essentially is
• 29:48
  when someone is doing, in layman's terms, doing the most
• 29:52
  early on. So speaking to you what you're
• 29:54
  saying, very consistent, showering you with gifts,
• 29:59
  calling all the time, taking you out, doing all the things that
• 30:03
  seem like too good to be true. So think about the catfishes,
• 30:07
  the romance. Well, the catfish where they
• 30:09
  actually like the romances, the guys who do like the Tinder
• 30:16
  Swindling type of vibes where they're just laying it on thick
• 30:20
  and you're just like, wow, I've been waiting for this person my
• 30:22
  whole life. And it may last for like maybe a
• 30:25
  good month, but then things take a turn and then they start kind
• 30:30
  of pretty much asking for the return.
• 30:33
  So hey, I've done all these things, you know, I'm a good
• 30:37
  person. Can I borrow some money?
• 30:40
  Can you move into my home or can I move into your home like this?
• 30:44
  The ass starts getting weird or they're demanding things from
• 30:48
  you that wouldn't be typical early in a relationship.
• 30:52
  So the people who are just laying it on very thick, those
• 30:57
  are the love farmers because that they don't for the purpose
• 31:00
  of yeah, with the purpose of doing something at the back end.
• 31:04
  Now, if someone being nice and consistent, willing to gifts,
• 31:09
  the dinners, the trips, but they can sustain that through time,
• 31:14
  that's different. You know, that's where your
• 31:16
  information gathering like can they keep this up?
• 31:20
  You know, am I come on data? I'm meeting family and friends
• 31:24
  and that's what dating is. It's information gathering.
• 31:26
  We're gathering data. Who is this person?
• 31:29
  Are they who they say they are or other people corroborating
• 31:32
  that for speaking to their character?
• 31:35
  But the love farmers, you're going to find that they're not
• 31:38
  goal is more so to isolate you so that you're in this bubble of
• 31:42
  love. So you're not seeking that data
• 31:45
  and you're just trusting what's in.
• 31:49
  So they're create the false reality for sure.
• 31:52
  Yeah. And I think yeah, yeah, it can.
• 31:55
  It can be very easy because people are in low effort and
• 31:58
  they know that and they're like, Oh well, you just want some
• 32:01
  roses. I'm going to get you two dozen
• 32:04
  roses. You could have had more that,
• 32:06
  but that was all you asked for, right?
• 32:11
  Yep. There was something you said
• 32:13
  that. Yes.
• 32:16
  Data collection and dating. I think a lot of people come out
• 32:19
  of the data collection phase way too soon.
• 32:22
  They they cut it off and it's like, no, everything is data
• 32:27
  always. Yeah, Yeah.
• 32:30
  I mean, I think a lot of us have not been taught how to date.
• 32:33
  I mean, I come from an African background.
• 32:36
  We don't, they don't teach girls how to date.
• 32:38
  They just say focus on your books up until grad school and
• 32:43
  then when are you getting married?
• 32:45
  And that's. Yep, pretty much it.
• 32:48
  And I don't think that's exclusively African, right.
• 32:50
  Like that's a lot of people. Yeah.
• 32:53
  People learn people across the diaspora.
• 32:57
  It's very much like leave boys alone and do your thing.
• 33:02
  Obviously boys get a different message.
• 33:05
  But either way, no one is taught.
• 33:07
  Not no one, but most of us are taught like you're meet someone,
• 33:12
  you fall in love, you get married and have kids.
• 33:14
  But what happens in between? Like should I have a should I be
• 33:19
  dating multiple people at one time?
• 33:22
  Like how do I know when I'm compatible with somebody?
• 33:25
  Like, they don't use those words, Correct, Correct.
• 33:30
  We're just kind of left blowing in the wind.
• 33:33
  And then now going back to our initial conversation, we have
• 33:38
  technology. So I always think about like the
• 33:40
  older generations, like all you had was a house phone or
• 33:44
  letters. Like, Can you imagine, Like
• 33:47
  maybe my future husband, he got to write letters.
• 33:50
  He must write letters. Is he mailing them to you or he
• 33:55
  just he can leave them wherever he can send me e-mail too.
• 33:59
  I used to love a cute little e-mail with in the early dating
• 34:03
  yeah days in the early 2000s. So love a e-mail, a long instant
• 34:08
  message conversation that definitely wrote some emails.
• 34:12
  Hello, how are you today? Here's what I'm doing 'cause you
• 34:16
  didn't have We were much more expressive.
• 34:18
  Great. But yeah, like, imagine if all
• 34:21
  we had was that like what our parents and their parents had.
• 34:25
  Like that's a different level of information gathering because
• 34:29
  you all you see is what's in front of you.
• 34:31
  And you have to figure out who are your friends, who are your
• 34:35
  people? Because we don't see it on
• 34:36
  Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, whatever, you know?
• 34:40
  So yeah, yeah, yeah. So much, so much.
• 34:47
  Like, my mind is just going back on the way technology has really
• 34:51
  changed dating, like people would, even though we had
• 34:56
  access, it wasn't the same. Like you could be on before they
• 34:59
  called it social media, but you can be on platforms for hours
• 35:04
  with people. And now people, they swipe left,
• 35:06
  swipe right, like it's immediate, like there's no
• 35:10
  beating around the Bush, no sense of oh, I need to get to
• 35:14
  know this person. No, they want that instant
• 35:17
  gratification. And I'm old school.
• 35:21
  I am old school. And in a way, like I ran into
• 35:24
  somebody that I hadn't seen in like many, many years and we re
• 35:28
  exchanged numbers and he called, right.
• 35:32
  And I'm not that I was surprised that he called.
• 35:33
  He called, he did not text, and we were just on the phone.
• 35:37
  Crack it up. And I was just like, I used to
• 35:40
  love this, I used to love this. So when I get married again,
• 35:46
  like my husband, he has to like talk to me.
• 35:49
  He has to be like one of my best friends.
• 35:53
  You know what I mean, 'cause you still gotta have friends outside
• 35:55
  of your man. You do, you do.
• 35:58
  And if you are suspicious about people, your friends being
• 36:02
  around your man, then you might need to rethink your friends
• 36:05
  help and or your man or it's a you thing and likely it's a you
• 36:09
  thing. OK, that's another podcast topic
• 36:13
  right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:16
  Let me find out. You're going to be a regular, so
• 36:18
  let's spend a little time talking about some green flags.
• 36:20
  OK? Why don't green flags feel as
• 36:23
  exciting at first the way the red flags do?
• 36:28
  Well, they don't trigger that like warning sign.
• 36:31
  You know, the warnings. Unfortunately, we feel them.
• 36:34
  But the comfort true, you're like boredom and we're like, OK,
• 36:38
  well, if I you know, he's cool. Nothing to write home about
• 36:43
  here. Like we love a good story.
• 36:45
  We love a good tiki. So when someone's this good,
• 36:48
  we're just like, it's cool, nothing to share.
• 36:52
  You're right, he's nice. We used to work nice.
• 36:57
  Nice. I've heard people do that.
• 36:59
  And I'm like, what do you mean he's cool?
• 37:01
  What do you mean she's cool? Like, do you like them?
• 37:05
  Like, But I think you. Yeah, that's always interesting.
• 37:09
  I think it depends on what space you're into.
• 37:12
  Like, are you in the space to like a green flag, you know, say
• 37:18
  more. Some of us like chaos.
• 37:21
  Some of us are more excited by, you know, the bad sounds old,
• 37:25
  the bad boy image, the guy who will keep us on our toes where
• 37:29
  it's like we'll hear won't be, you know, because again, that
• 37:33
  comfort of this is all I've known.
• 37:35
  So he doesn't even have to be that you grew up in chaos.
• 37:38
  But it's like since I started dating, I've dated people who
• 37:42
  are inconsistent. So this is what makes sense to
• 37:45
  me. So when someone is consistent,
• 37:48
  I've heard other people say this, like when they've had that
• 37:51
  experience, they say the consistent person feels clingy
• 37:57
  or they feel like they need me or they want me too much and
• 38:01
  that gets uncomfortable, you know, because we know deep
• 38:06
  inside like this is going to be a healthy relationship actually.
• 38:10
  Like, I don't have to stay up at night being anxious.
• 38:13
  I don't have to question who or what or where this person is
• 38:18
  because they're showing me everything someone should show
• 38:21
  you In a healthy relationship that can feel off when you're
• 38:26
  used to something else. Yeah.
• 38:30
  Every day you can't appreciate the the steak and caviar 'cause
• 38:36
  you're like, what is what is this?
• 38:40
  Not anymore. Bring the steak and the caviar.
• 38:42
  Correct. Yeah, sometimes consistency is
• 38:47
  hard for people, even just on the basic, like can you go to
• 38:51
  the gym four times a week, every week?
• 38:56
  That's a good perspective. With dating, like some people,
• 39:00
  you expect people to be more committed to you than you are to
• 39:03
  yourself and your goals sometimes.
• 39:06
  And when you put it like, yes, sometimes when you put it like
• 39:08
  that, I'm just thinking about the gym thing.
• 39:10
  It just like promises that we make to ourselves and don't
• 39:12
  keep, you know, and then we expect someone to show up with
• 39:16
  even greater consistency. So I think with self is a great
• 39:19
  start. That doesn't mean that you can't
• 39:21
  date just because you don't go to the gym three times a week.
• 39:23
  That's not what what we're saying, but it's just important
• 39:27
  to just think about your expectations for for people.
• 39:32
  And you know, you just made me think there was a time I, I was
• 39:35
  an undergrad, there was this guy and I knew he was a really good
• 39:38
  guy and he was sweet. He was nice and he was doing all
• 39:41
  the things. And I think then I didn't know
• 39:43
  that I didn't know I was like, am I being love bomb?
• 39:45
  Why he doing so much right? But I didn't know that it was
• 39:48
  love bombing. But I also knew this person
• 39:52
  would be serious. And I was like, I don't know
• 39:56
  that I want to be as serious as he wants to be serious.
• 39:59
  Like, I wanted to be somebody's girlfriend, but I wasn't ready
• 40:02
  to be somebody's wife. And I was like, yeah, I think I
• 40:05
  knew in my heart of hearts if I get with him, everything
• 40:08
  finished shut down. And I did not want.
• 40:10
  I was not mature enough yet, even though I thought I was
• 40:13
  pretty mature, but I was not ready for for that.
• 40:17
  Yeah, right. But imagine if you were, you
• 40:20
  know. You would have been it wouldn't
• 40:25
  have been good. Well, fair.
• 40:26
  Everything happens for a reason. Yeah, maybe it would have gotten
• 40:30
  checked off the list. You know, that was your married.
• 40:33
  But potentially. But but yeah, we should turn
• 40:36
  this podcast into like discussing all the people we've
• 40:41
  dated so they can listen to it. You can share what we learned.
• 40:44
  Girl, that's so messy. Or we got to make them a pseudo
• 40:49
  person. People don't need to feel
• 40:51
  so-called out. We can talk hypothetically.
• 40:53
  I mean, I'm having people send in.
• 40:57
  I'm having people send in letters for.
• 41:00
  If you're listening now, if you have questions and you want them
• 41:03
  some more insights on how to make it healthier, we're not
• 41:07
  going to help help you manipulate anybody to get into a
• 41:10
  relationship, but to get into a healthy situation and make some
• 41:15
  healthy decisions in terms of dating and protect your peace if
• 41:18
  that's what's needed. Implement some boundaries.
• 41:21
  Maybe your boundaries are very rigid and you could stand to
• 41:25
  like ease up on them as well, right?
• 41:28
  But yeah, so I'm inviting you to write in the letters.
• 41:31
  We'll process them here on Bryce and Thrombodacter J Nicole so
• 41:35
  that we can give you some feedback.
• 41:38
  OK. And maybe we'll have Doctor
• 41:40
  Niasha come back. Go ahead.
• 41:41
  I was going to say, you're going to get your letters that you've
• 41:44
  been wanting. Yes, yes.
• 41:47
  So send those letters in. I think that's also just like a
• 41:51
  really good thing. So yes, relationship family
• 41:55
  dynamics and friendship dynamics are welcome to, but just
• 41:58
  relationship questions in general.
• 42:02
  Yeah, because I've learned a lot of lessons.
• 42:04
  We could probably write some books about dating based on some
• 42:08
  of the people we've dated in our past.
• 42:11
  Absolutely. Keep saying I'm going to write
• 42:13
  one. OK, well get in, get into it,
• 42:17
  get into it. What do you think are some of
• 42:19
  the green flags that might be indicators or point towards more
• 42:24
  emotional safety long term? One of the biggest ones are the
• 42:30
  people who can communicate instead of arguing or being
• 42:35
  defensive when you bring up problems.
• 42:38
  So again, that consistency thing like, hey, you know, I like when
• 42:43
  people call me or text me consistently.
• 42:47
  If that person is willing to work with you and communicate
• 42:51
  and talk about it without getting upset, I think that's
• 42:54
  great. People who can deal with you
• 42:57
  emoting, I've seen countless times in couples therapy, like
• 43:01
  one party will be crying and the other party's just kind of like,
• 43:05
  here they go again, like that is the red flag.
• 43:09
  So the green flag is someone who wants to hold you and hand you a
• 43:12
  tissue or at least inquire like what is making you emotional
• 43:17
  right now? Even if you're always crying
• 43:18
  like they should. You have some some inquiry.
• 43:22
  And yeah, you know, it sounds like they're available to Co
• 43:25
  regulate with you. Yeah.
• 43:27
  I love the Gottman's research about bids.
• 43:30
  And I think we've seen so many different versions of it, like
• 43:34
  social media trends. So like telling someone, hey, I
• 43:37
  saw a bird the other day and they actually inquire about the
• 43:40
  bird instead of saying like, OK, So what you.
• 43:43
  So what kind of bird was it? Tell me what you liked about it.
• 43:45
  Like those people who are wanting to get to know you and
• 43:48
  your interests, even if you've been together for 10-15 years,
• 43:51
  like those are the couples. Yeah.
• 43:54
  And make it when the the other party is just interested in
• 43:57
  whatever you're interested in, even though it may not be their
• 44:01
  thing. Whatever you like.
• 44:02
  I'm not bird watching, but hey, tell me what you saw.
• 44:05
  What did you find intriguing about that?
• 44:08
  Obviously consistency that's going to look different for
• 44:11
  everyone. Like there's a once a week
• 44:13
  versus every day. So whatever level of consistency
• 44:18
  matches your lifestyle or your vibe, what else?
• 44:23
  What are some you've seen? They respond well to like being
• 44:27
  held accountable, which is a version of what you were saying.
• 44:30
  But they're willing to take in the feedback and listen.
• 44:34
  They don't immediately deflect where they're like, OK, I'll do
• 44:37
  better. And they leave it at that.
• 44:39
  And then like an apology, the best apology is change behavior,
• 44:44
  right? So seeing that change in
• 44:46
  behavior, I think those are green flags because nobody's
• 44:49
  going to always get it right. Like you see a person who's
• 44:53
  trying, who wants to do better, they're listening.
• 44:56
  They also they don't always have to wait for you to tell them.
• 45:02
  So they hear you say that you like these things or you want to
• 45:06
  and then they follow through. They're like actually listening
• 45:10
  and applying in a good way. Where I think that's a note like
• 45:15
  a good skill that that's a skill that love bombers have that
• 45:20
  needs to be used by the guy that has good intentions is to
• 45:23
  actually listen to what for the woman, because women love bomb
• 45:28
  too, but listen to what the other person has said and
• 45:33
  actually do it or just just like follow through, like simple
• 45:39
  follow through. So if you're in asking me to go
• 45:41
  to dinner, send me a confirmation when the
• 45:44
  reservation is done, right? Like because some people are
• 45:47
  like, yeah, we're supposed to hang out, but I don't know when,
• 45:49
  right? Because the person is not doing
• 45:52
  the follow through. Like I don't have to know
• 45:54
  everything, but at least just be like, OK, 7:00 I'm picking you
• 45:58
  up or can you meet me here? Depending on, you know, because
• 46:01
  we live in a big area. So like that follow through
• 46:04
  where you hear them, They there is, there's intention.
• 46:07
  So it connects. So their words and their
• 46:10
  behaviors early on and I like and that, oh, sorry, go ahead.
• 46:17
  I like what you said about just the active listening or the
• 46:21
  listening piece in general, because similar to the big
• 46:24
  thing, like you want to know who your partner is.
• 46:26
  So if someone is saying like, I like roses, why would you get me
• 46:30
  sunflowers? Stuff like that.
• 46:32
  Like, oh, I like sushi, but you it's flowers.
• 46:35
  I like sushi, but you took me to a vegan restaurant.
• 46:38
  Like what are we? What are we doing here?
• 46:41
  So, you know, I think thoughtfulness in general, just
• 46:43
  like I listened to what you said and I think you would like this
• 46:47
  thing. That's.
• 46:49
  That's a really good one. Yeah.
• 46:53
  Yeah. And it's.
• 46:54
  It's simple, right? But obviously a person is not
• 46:56
  going to tell you every single thing.
• 46:58
  And then sushi and roses could get played out after a while
• 47:02
  too, you know what I mean? But like you got to mix it up.
• 47:05
  So we also are not telling you to run the same program.
• 47:08
  Continue to get to know them and their likes and just like
• 47:11
  continue to evolve like someone who they can take it in and then
• 47:16
  OK, got it. You know, have more.
• 47:19
  Keep going. Go through the list.
• 47:22
  I think one that a lot of us don't lean into or don't really
• 47:27
  like is seeing how our family and friends react to people.
• 47:32
  Because that's a good one. Yes.
• 47:35
  And I think it was Esther Pharrell.
• 47:38
  I think we talked about like incorporating them early on and
• 47:42
  dating because sometimes that's when you recognize, OK, there's
• 47:48
  going to be a problem. Like if they're not getting
• 47:50
  along with your people or your people know, especially living
• 47:54
  in the DMV area, somebody knows someone.
• 47:58
  Like if they're saying, hey, this person, you might want to,
• 48:02
  you know, be concerned or just have be on the lookout.
• 48:07
  I think all those are good things to add because that's
• 48:11
  data. Again, like if your friends are
• 48:13
  like, hey, I don't like what this person said to me or I
• 48:16
  don't like how they acted in our, you know, in the midst of
• 48:19
  all of us. Like those are things to look
• 48:22
  out for because if you want a partner, you don't have to.
• 48:25
  You don't want to have to choose, you know, can't my
• 48:28
  partner come to this event if these people are here or, you
• 48:32
  know, can I say so good Nyasha without people rolling right or
• 48:39
  tuck them behind my absolutely. That's that's huge.
• 48:45
  And a lot of people they're spending a lot of their time
• 48:47
  trying to like mediate between friends and the bow or the girl,
• 48:52
  the woman, the partner, the love interest.
• 48:55
  We'll just say love interest, right?
• 48:59
  And also they need to be able to take that heat a little bit when
• 49:03
  friends are asking questions, right?
• 49:04
  Like nobody's going to be like that rude or that awful to them,
• 49:09
  but you need to see how they respond to that a little bit
• 49:12
  when you bring them around. This is also good for you
• 49:15
  because your friends know you and they can say Nah is giving
• 49:20
  whomever they're running down a name or two.
• 49:23
  You know what I mean? And you haven't even figured it
• 49:26
  out because you're in the it's familiar, it feels good.
• 49:30
  And then you're like, or they say something funny like he kind
• 49:36
  of looks like so and so you're like, oh, you just ruined him
• 49:39
  for me. But you know, and I think
• 49:42
  there's credence to like he answered the questions too well
• 49:46
  or he fit in too easily. Because I think there's some of
• 49:50
  that with the love bombers too, where they're too charming
• 49:53
  almost where they're like, he's cool, but what is the idea or
• 49:58
  what what's going on there? So either way, I think it's just
• 50:02
  good to to get other opinions. Yeah, and just we're continuing
• 50:08
  to collect data. So you pass this first.
• 50:12
  Well, not that we're testing, but we kind of are, right?
• 50:15
  We're looking to see the compatibility.
• 50:17
  Will our lives mix as we go level to level to level to
• 50:20
  level? Because friends are important
• 50:22
  because they can see things that you don't see.
• 50:24
  And I think it's important to see people in a group setting as
• 50:26
  well. Are they able, especially
• 50:28
  depending on your personality type, how are they going to do?
• 50:32
  Like I'm a social person. I have to date someone who can
• 50:36
  be equally as social or OK with me being social and not being
• 50:40
  threatened. Yeah, you are going to talk to
• 50:44
  people. That's I'm going to talk to
• 50:46
  people and meet new people, right.
• 50:49
  They need to be working with that.
• 50:50
  Like if you don't want to talk both to them and wait till I'm
• 50:54
  done and don't be mad that you waiting, right?
• 50:57
  Like cuz this is how I am. This is part of my gift.
• 51:01
  I connect with people. That's what I do.
• 51:03
  And that's something that I dimmed in the past that I will
• 51:09
  never do again because that's certainly just not me.
• 51:13
  And that's, that's, that's, that's going to be a you
• 51:15
  problem, not a me problem. This is how I was made and it's
• 51:19
  not inappropriate. It'd be different if I was
• 51:23
  overly flirtatious, right and needed attention to be the like
• 51:27
  the center. And it's not that at all.
• 51:29
  It's not that at all. I I just I connect with people.
• 51:32
  I enjoy connecting with people, right yeah, and I think on
• 51:35
  people. Oh, sorry, I was the same people
• 51:38
  like me too. So in real life.
• 51:41
  But I think on the other end too is seeing what they're like with
• 51:44
  their friends, what their friends are like.
• 51:46
  Again, I think it's like how compatible are we are lifestyle
• 51:50
  wise? And I think our show that too.
• 51:54
  Like who are the people that you're associating with?
• 51:57
  What are they like? What are they into?
• 51:59
  Like are they all drinkers? Are they cigar guys?
• 52:03
  Are they you know, gamblers? Like those are things sometimes
• 52:07
  people find out on the back end where it's just like what you
• 52:10
  never were around these people. Like you didn't know that this
• 52:13
  is what was happening. So and he gone both ends.
• 52:17
  It's it's a good thing just again, to gather data.
• 52:22
  Yeah. What if they don't have friends?
• 52:24
  Really. What do you think about that?
• 52:27
  Well, for me, that would be the reddest of flags because now I
• 52:31
  am your world. There are some people who are
• 52:33
  going to like that, but you have to assess like, again,
• 52:36
  compatibility because I'm, I'm not going to say like, oh, you
• 52:41
  don't have friends. So you are a bad person.
• 52:43
  I think everyone has different circumstances.
• 52:46
  People move, people have social anxiety.
• 52:48
  People just don't connect with people anymore that they used to
• 52:52
  connect with. Again, gathering data.
• 52:55
  But I think we're both social people.
• 52:57
  So we know, like, if I am the only person that you are
• 53:02
  connected to, that may end up being a concern because guess
• 53:06
  who you're going to be connected to next?
• 53:08
  My circle of friends. And then we're now mutual
• 53:11
  friends. And that can be hit or miss at
• 53:14
  times. Yeah.
• 53:16
  Those for who gets the friends and the breakup.
• 53:18
  Yeah. Yeah, that can become a thing.
• 53:20
  Let's say everything goes well. But now we are going together
• 53:24
  all the time because you're just with me and my friends and my
• 53:28
  friends. So can we have separate lives?
• 53:31
  Do we have alone time? Or are you going to go with my
• 53:34
  friends and I'm going to stay home now?
• 53:37
  I'm like, well, I miss my friends.
• 53:38
  So can you get your own friends? You know, it could just go
• 53:41
  differently. Yeah, it can.
• 53:44
  I mean, I'm sure there are people who have made that work
• 53:47
  where their circles are just fine.
• 53:50
  The men go do things, the women go do things, whatever.
• 53:54
  OK, So what are some ways? So we're, we're talking green
• 53:59
  flags and emotional availability is a big thing, right?
• 54:03
  Like we hear another term that's thrown out there.
• 54:06
  Oh, but they're emotionally unavailable.
• 54:08
  So on the other side of that, what does emotional availability
• 54:12
  actually look like in behaviour? Not just somebody saying, Oh
• 54:16
  yes, I'm emotionally available, I'm healed, I did the work.
• 54:18
  I think it coincides with the green flags we're talking about
• 54:22
  the emotional global person is going to be accessible.
• 54:25
  They're not trying to hide, they're not trying to run.
• 54:29
  They actually want to be around you and they want to communicate
• 54:33
  and they want to do the things and put in the work.
• 54:37
  So you're going to be able to tell because you don't have the
• 54:40
  warning signs that we talked about the anxiety.
• 54:43
  The of course those things can still pop up.
• 54:46
  Like you said, this can be a youth thing because some of us
• 54:48
  have anxiety and that's just the constant and it's not related to
• 54:52
  a partner, but emotional available people actually create
• 54:57
  emotional safety as well. So they make you feel seen and
• 55:01
  heard. And I think you're going to
• 55:02
  recognize that, hopefully will recognize that with the list of
• 55:06
  green flags that we gave. So yes, saying things is one
• 55:10
  thing, but it's really going to come through in their act.
• 55:14
  So what about like with the instance of like the lover boy,
• 55:18
  right? Like he makes you feel all those
• 55:20
  things. Like how do you know the
• 55:23
  difference between a lover boy and somebody that's actually
• 55:26
  emotionally available? I mean, I think the lover boy
• 55:30
  can have some of that. It also depends on like, what
• 55:33
  are you looking for? You know, when we talk about
• 55:36
  emotional availability, I think a lot of us are talking about
• 55:40
  this person wanted to be in a relationship or didn't.
• 55:44
  So can the lover boy not love everybody and be with you?
• 55:49
  That's a big one because he's emotionally available, clearly
• 55:53
  to too many people. Here's the problem.
• 55:55
  Yeah, but you want that person to be available to you and to
• 55:59
  want what you want. So if I want to get married and
• 56:03
  this person doesn't, that's not going to be emotionally
• 56:07
  available enough for me because you don't want the same level of
• 56:12
  death that I want. That's good, Nyasha, that you're
• 56:17
  saying, though. I like the way that you package
• 56:20
  that, excuse me, where is like a person can be available, it's
• 56:28
  just that they're not available for what you want long term.
• 56:32
  Yeah, and you know, for a foundation casual encounters
• 56:39
  friends with benefits, that is not a space where someone needs
• 56:42
  to be emotionally available. That's very casual, low effort.
• 56:46
  You don't need to do labor because if you're doing
• 56:49
  emotional labor, then it gets murky.
• 56:52
  Define emotional labor. So that is clear for the
• 56:55
  listeners and they leave with a some education too, and make
• 57:00
  sure they're using some of the terms like, you know, properly.
• 57:02
  But we just want to make sure that they they get what we're
• 57:04
  saying. Yeah, emotional labor is you
• 57:08
  have a problem and I'm going to listen to it and we're going to
• 57:11
  problem solve it. Can you do that with a friend
• 57:14
  with benefits? Most people would be hesitant to
• 57:18
  do that or a casual encounter. You're not calling them and
• 57:21
  saying, Oh my God, I had such a bad day, can you listen to me
• 57:24
  talk? I mean, some people could do
• 57:26
  that maybe, but emotional labor is OK.
• 57:29
  I'll listen to you talk and hey, let's get a a glass of wine or
• 57:34
  let me come rub your feet and bring you roses are all the
• 57:36
  things that you like. That's emotional labor is that
• 57:39
  it's it's a transaction, but it's not one sided, which is
• 57:44
  typically happening in casual situation.
• 57:47
  So this is more like we are in this together and we're going to
• 57:51
  figure it out. We're there for each other.
• 57:53
  And we are also on the road to Celtic.
• 57:56
  But emotional labor can be done in all types of spaces, but it
• 58:03
  just happens that in casual situations, it tends to happen
• 58:07
  more on one side than the other. Whereas when you OK both
• 58:11
  emotionally available, you're both putting in labor together.
• 58:16
  Awesome. So I'm hearing alignment.
• 58:20
  Yeah, there's alignment. Yeah.
• 58:22
  OK. OK, Anything else you want to
• 58:25
  say on green flags? Well, I don't want people to
• 58:30
  say, you know, I'm just going to look for red and green flags and
• 58:34
  that's it. It's obviously there's a whole
• 58:37
  lot of in between. Yes, there's a lot of in
• 58:39
  between. Green flags and red flags are
• 58:41
  just good ways of making a checklist.
• 58:44
  But we also know that humans are complex.
• 58:46
  We can't make checklists. And no, like, OK, this person
• 58:50
  checks the box. So I'm moving forward with this.
• 58:53
  Like there's, like you said, all the in between need to know
• 58:57
  about their upbringing, because if I said, oh, someone with
• 59:00
  trauma in their background is a red flag, that's problematic.
• 59:04
  You know, that's not being empathetic or compassionate to
• 59:08
  the human experience. But I wouldn't and nobody gets
• 59:11
  through the human experience without some sort of trauma,
• 59:14
  whether it's big T or little T, right?
• 59:16
  So I just want people to be careful when we label things
• 59:19
  green flag, red flag. It's just a way simplified way
• 59:23
  to talk about things that show up in relationships that are
• 59:28
  good and bad. But there's so much more to that
• 59:31
  and layers and all types of stuff that everyone should be
• 59:34
  looking out for. Gathering data as well as spend
• 59:38
  20 times gather data in dating. Listen yeah to figure it out
• 59:44
  because there isn't really A1 size fits all.
• 59:46
  Like I've seen so many different couples, couples where I'm like,
• 59:50
  oh, this makes sense. Couples where I'm like, how did
• 59:52
  y'all get together? But you could always make it
• 59:56
  work if you're both willing to do that.
• 59:59
  So yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I also think that red flags
• 1:00:07
  can be an opportunity if you turned it into one, because some
• 1:00:11
  people, they see a red flag, they don't have any
• 1:00:13
  conversations with people. And they just had for the hills
• 1:00:17
  and there are some red flags that I think you should run for
• 1:00:20
  the hills. Like if there's a whole secret
• 1:00:22
  family, you find out that their name really isn't their name any
• 1:00:27
  anything. Yeah, there are extreme red
• 1:00:29
  flags where you need to definitely run or call, call the
• 1:00:33
  police. But what you right, I think they
• 1:00:37
  can be an opportunity for to have a conversation because a
• 1:00:41
  person may not even be aware. You may be the first to bring
• 1:00:44
  this to their attention and you still say it and then their
• 1:00:48
  reaction. Then you decide what you're
• 1:00:50
  going to do. You've seen the red flag, you've
• 1:00:54
  labeled it for yourself. You've communicated it to them,
• 1:00:56
  gave them an opportunity to engage with you about it.
• 1:01:00
  And then from the data that you collect from that engagement,
• 1:01:04
  you decide what you want to do next.
• 1:01:07
  And I think a lot of times people will skip it.
• 1:01:10
  They'll skip it. And then they are also sometimes
• 1:01:13
  skipping out on opportunities to grow, to be able to have
• 1:01:16
  difficult conversations because you're going to need to do that
• 1:01:20
  to be in a healthy relationship. Yeah, I think a lot of it boils
• 1:01:24
  down to communication. A lot of it's live, especially
• 1:01:28
  with two degrees in psychology. I've been there where I'm like,
• 1:01:31
  I don't want to say nothing, so I'm just going to keep it moving
• 1:01:34
  here. And, you know, that didn't work
• 1:01:37
  out. So it's really about all of us
• 1:01:39
  being OK with speaking up about our wants and and also being OK
• 1:01:44
  when things don't work out. So I think that's also another
• 1:01:48
  another podcast for another day. But how to deal with the
• 1:01:51
  disappointment and the rejection and the possibility of being
• 1:01:55
  alone, you know, to go on. Don't want to be alone.
• 1:02:00
  There's all that too. Yeah, that's a whole thing.
• 1:02:05
  Because you don't. I don't think you have to do
• 1:02:07
  anything. You don't want to be alone.
• 1:02:09
  You don't have to be alone. You don't, but you have to
• 1:02:14
  decide what that really looks like for you.
• 1:02:16
  And some people, they make choices.
• 1:02:18
  And when we make choices, our brain, behavior, everything is
• 1:02:25
  going to be in alignment. Our thoughts are going to be in
• 1:02:28
  alignment with that and make it so, So because, you know, the
• 1:02:31
  brain is very, you know, obviously the brain is very
• 1:02:35
  powerful. So yeah, yeah, there's some
• 1:02:39
  things we can you can just get a cat or a dog and call it a day
• 1:02:44
  and, you know, have friends and community and it'll be alright.
• 1:02:48
  And a great therapist. You know, somebody's trigger
• 1:02:53
  right now that you said get a cat.
• 1:02:57
  I know some people aren't fat people, but I only wanted a cat.
• 1:03:02
  Do I have one yet? No, but one day I have my little
• 1:03:06
  kitten. Cats are a lot lower maintenance
• 1:03:08
  than dogs, that's for sure. And these days you can get
• 1:03:11
  electrical. You know the mechanical Kitty
• 1:03:15
  litter box where you just got to dump and then just add board?
• 1:03:18
  But that's so funny. So Speaking of, are there some
• 1:03:24
  behaviors, well, we're talking about like being human and not
• 1:03:28
  being perfect in relationships and dating.
• 1:03:30
  Are there behaviors that people are a little too quick to label
• 1:03:34
  as red flags that actually might be healthy or aren't unhealthy?
• 1:03:38
  You know, I think people are confusing red flags with icks.
• 1:03:43
  You know, the ick is like, oh, he wore loafers to this date
• 1:03:47
  when he should have worn sneakers.
• 1:03:49
  That's a red flag. And it's just like, well,
• 1:03:52
  clothes can be changed. You know, clothing and shoes
• 1:03:57
  change if they're open to the feedback.
• 1:04:01
  Yeah. So I think, I think part of it
• 1:04:03
  is like, we'll label red flags something that's incompatible
• 1:04:07
  with our lifestyle or our sense of being as men in this world.
• 1:04:13
  So you eat this or you wear this or you pay this much for this or
• 1:04:17
  you don't pay this much for this.
• 1:04:19
  I think all those things are starting to be put under the red
• 1:04:22
  flag umbrella where it's just like, hey, this person doesn't
• 1:04:26
  have the mean. Does that make them a red flag?
• 1:04:29
  No. Are they not compatible with you
• 1:04:31
  because you make $50,000 more? Yeah, that's that might be it
• 1:04:37
  Now, like it's just, I think what you were saying, like what
• 1:04:40
  are you willing to deal with? What are you looking for in a
• 1:04:42
  partner? Yeah, that's good.
• 1:04:46
  Knowing the difference between an ick and compatibility and
• 1:04:50
  actual red flags, that's good. That is really good because a
• 1:04:54
  lot of times people will, like you said, say it's all the same
• 1:04:57
  and it's not it's not a red flag that he took you for coffee.
• 1:05:01
  He's on a budget. He's making intentional about
• 1:05:03
  who he's dating and he's not trying to pay a whole bunch for
• 1:05:05
  dinner because he still got to pay rent, right?
• 1:05:10
  That doesn't mean he can't date, but like, you know, it's hard.
• 1:05:15
  It's I think it's hard that people are people that are
• 1:05:17
  engaged in traditional dating where men are paying.
• 1:05:20
  I've grown to appreciate the coffee date and I feel like more
• 1:05:24
  people should be open to that because it's still like an
• 1:05:28
  opportunity to get data, you know, granted you're drinking
• 1:05:33
  coffee. I mean, of course.
• 1:05:36
  What time are you drinking the coffee?
• 1:05:37
  So I've had people talk about getting coffee after work.
• 1:05:40
  I'm like, I'm not drinking coffee at 7 O clock at night.
• 1:05:42
  Sorry. It's not if I'm going to sleep
• 1:05:44
  tonight. Yeah.
• 1:05:45
  So yeah. But I do think coffee is good
• 1:05:47
  because you do save money and time.
• 1:05:49
  And who's to say like coffee can turn into brunch or later dinner
• 1:05:54
  or whatever. But it's nice to just answer
• 1:05:57
  some questions, get to know the person and see if you want to
• 1:06:00
  invest because it is an investment of time and energy,
• 1:06:03
  money, etcetera. But again, I think social media
• 1:06:08
  and other discourse has LED people to believe like you have
• 1:06:11
  to go on these lavish dates, you have to spend the 200 three,
• 1:06:15
  $100. I think coffee is just fine.
• 1:06:18
  If you don't like coffee, you can order some tea or order some
• 1:06:21
  water. I don't know, go there.
• 1:06:24
  And I also gather information. Yes, agreed.
• 1:06:28
  And I think coffee people are probably going to be their guard
• 1:06:35
  will be down more, right, because it's more casual.
• 1:06:39
  Not to say gotcha, We going to ask all the questions like not
• 1:06:43
  saying it is that way, but like people, you might see more of
• 1:06:46
  the real them versus dinner. You got to dress and like put on
• 1:06:51
  and all the stuff, right, where there's room to be a little more
• 1:06:55
  casual. Or we're just meeting for
• 1:06:56
  coffee. Like your wardrobe for coffee is
• 1:06:58
  going to be different for dinner depending on who it is and maybe
• 1:07:02
  what you have planned for the rest of the day.
• 1:07:04
  And so I don't think it's a bad thing per SE.
• 1:07:09
  And that's also showing you it's not that he doesn't think you
• 1:07:12
  worth it. He don't know you.
• 1:07:15
  They don't know you yet. And if your worth is so easily
• 1:07:22
  diminished because it's a coffee date and not a dinner date, are
• 1:07:26
  you clear on your work? And also you could stay sober,
• 1:07:30
  which is great. And there are some really good
• 1:07:34
  cafes out there. I saw they have coffee omakase
• 1:07:37
  now, and I'm really excited about that.
• 1:07:39
  They do. I want to go.
• 1:07:41
  Yeah. You get a flight of coffee.
• 1:07:43
  Sometimes they care them go just for the experience.
• 1:07:47
  Yeah. So it could be when we going.
• 1:07:48
  Girl, whenever you want. Let's go over the week.
• 1:07:52
  We'll plan this when we're done recording.
• 1:07:54
  But, you know, sometimes you just got to give it a chance and
• 1:07:58
  see what's happening and just lean into getting to know
• 1:08:01
  someone versus getting to know their wallet or what experience
• 1:08:06
  they can give you. Yeah.
• 1:08:10
  Yeah. All right, that was good.
• 1:08:13
  Thank you for those. Thank you for those.
• 1:08:15
  And you've talked about this a little bit more, but I do want
• 1:08:17
  to ask it more directly. And if there's more you you want
• 1:08:21
  to add to it about how does culture, upbringing and identity
• 1:08:26
  shape what someone considers acceptable And dating.
• 1:08:31
  Yeah, that's a tough one. Culture.
• 1:08:34
  It's a lot of things. So you know, we think about the
• 1:08:37
  upbringing, we think about where your parents are from, where
• 1:08:40
  you're from, religion, expectations, the vibes because
• 1:08:45
  you know what's happening. You know, I'm from Zimbabwe.
• 1:08:48
  So a 40 year old in Zimbabwe looks very different from a 40
• 1:08:51
  year old in the state. And OK, to generalize the
• 1:08:55
  culture back home is definitely, you know, you should have been
• 1:08:59
  settled down by 20 something. By 40 you should have your 123
• 1:09:05
  kids house, houses of business businesses just very it's a
• 1:09:12
  definitely there's different expectations of maturity.
• 1:09:16
  Whereas A4 year old here. You know it's a toss up.
• 1:09:20
  You may or may not be married. You may or may not have kids.
• 1:09:24
  You may still be going to happy hour at the club, you may never
• 1:09:28
  touch a business or you're just working a part time or you know,
• 1:09:32
  there's more flexibility in terms of what life looks like.
• 1:09:37
  And I to an extent that's kind of Western mentality, the
• 1:09:42
  individualistic, whereas the collectivistic cultures, you're
• 1:09:47
  beholden to what society there says you should be doing.
• 1:09:53
  And then you're also holding to what your family is expecting or
• 1:09:58
  meeting or wanting from you, whereas here for Western worlds,
• 1:10:02
  you're not. You can do whatever you want to
• 1:10:04
  explore. Yeah, you can.
• 1:10:06
  A little you can, you have a ceremony, you could decide I'm
• 1:10:10
  never getting married. You could decide, you know all
• 1:10:13
  kinds of things. But I think that's where when we
• 1:10:16
  think about dating, you know, the information gathering, like
• 1:10:21
  what are your thoughts on marriage or kids and no kids or
• 1:10:25
  the woman working or not working or you know, all kinds of
• 1:10:29
  things. There's just so many different
• 1:10:31
  layers of are we compatible in this space in the DMV and are we
• 1:10:38
  compatible when we go back to, you know, Guyana, if you're from
• 1:10:42
  Diana or if we go back to Nepal if you're from Nepal?
• 1:10:46
  Like what does it look like to join our world, so to speak,
• 1:10:51
  based on whatever culture and background we're coming from?
• 1:10:56
  Love that. Love that you have to figure it
• 1:10:58
  out for yourself, right? Because there might be sometimes
• 1:11:01
  elements of culture, upbringing and identity can be hurtful for
• 1:11:05
  some people where a lot of people are, they have to
• 1:11:07
  sacrifice their individualistic desires for a culture like it.
• 1:11:14
  And that could do a lot to a person, right?
• 1:11:16
  Like they've done all the things they they did everything right
• 1:11:19
  and then they're still miserable.
• 1:11:21
  They did everything they were expected to do and still
• 1:11:23
  miserable. So I can hear both sides where,
• 1:11:28
  you know, in other cultures that are, you know, non Western
• 1:11:31
  cultures, I can see where that's good, right?
• 1:11:36
  Like their structure and ensure certain things about society and
• 1:11:40
  things continue to go on. And then here, having that
• 1:11:44
  freedom because there's some people who never carry out their
• 1:11:47
  purpose because they're doing what society has said they need
• 1:11:52
  to do. And there's something really big
• 1:11:55
  inside of them that could change the world, right?
• 1:11:57
  Like everything we see in this world came out of someone's
• 1:12:00
  mind. So I think that's something to
• 1:12:02
  also keep in mind too, with that, right, that sometimes
• 1:12:06
  you're not supposed to do the traditional thing because
• 1:12:10
  there's other things, something else for you.
• 1:12:13
  So when do you think it's appropriate to ask questions
• 1:12:17
  instead of just walking away all the time?
• 1:12:20
  I mean, wait, what kind of questions?
• 1:12:25
  Which ones are we taxing that? I mean, you can interpret this
• 1:12:30
  how you like. When is it appropriate to ask
• 1:12:32
  questions instead of walking away?
• 1:12:35
  I think when it's not harming you, harming you or your safety,
• 1:12:40
  I think that's where you can lead with the questions.
• 1:12:43
  Because if someone like, is being abusive or manipulative,
• 1:12:47
  then you don't want to stick around to find out more.
• 1:12:50
  But if it is the, you know, texting, calling, inconsistency,
• 1:12:54
  I think it's perfectly, perfectly OK to start asking
• 1:12:57
  questions. You know, hey, I thought I was
• 1:13:00
  going to hear from you and something happened.
• 1:13:02
  What's going on, where we had these plans and they fell
• 1:13:07
  through. Yeah, or you said something that
• 1:13:11
  hurt my feelings. Let's talk about it.
• 1:13:13
  So I think there is room for questions at every point as long
• 1:13:19
  again as it's not harming your your well-being.
• 1:13:24
  Yeah. And I think questions are that
• 1:13:26
  curiosity is a good a healthy way to create some
• 1:13:32
  accountability. It's not an interrogation is
• 1:13:36
  asking For more information and a person having to express and
• 1:13:42
  communicate and show you and then if they can't communicate,
• 1:13:45
  if they get all worked up about you asking questions.
• 1:13:48
  Again, this is data. This is probably not a person
• 1:13:51
  you can build with that's going to be emotionally safe.
• 1:13:54
  So people avoiding things early on, that's also an indicator
• 1:14:00
  that you're not safe emotionally.
• 1:14:02
  If you feel like you can't ask the hard question, It's
• 1:14:05
  different from, you know, I think we've all had a friend
• 1:14:08
  who's maybe hard on somebody and dating and you're like, I think
• 1:14:11
  you might be doing a little much like I think you can give them a
• 1:14:15
  pass here, right? So that's that looks different.
• 1:14:20
  But a lot of us don't bring, like you were saying early of
• 1:14:24
  the importance of bringing them around your friends early so
• 1:14:28
  other people can buy check also. How are they going to do with
• 1:14:32
  accountability? Your friends are like, girl, you
• 1:14:36
  don't touch doors. Why are you opening doors at
• 1:14:40
  all? Like I've seen you touch more
• 1:14:42
  doors today with them than I've ever seen you touch in your
• 1:14:46
  life. And that's a small thing that a
• 1:14:48
  person doesn't even think it's big.
• 1:14:50
  And it can start with those small things.
• 1:14:53
  Yeah. And just say, hey, I'm used to
• 1:14:56
  my doors being opened for me. You really do teach people how
• 1:15:00
  to treat you. And it's not necessarily class.
• 1:15:03
  It's in session. It's the little things.
• 1:15:05
  It's asking the questions. It's communicating your
• 1:15:08
  preferences. Yeah.
• 1:15:10
  And it could be very mild. Like I know for us as
• 1:15:13
  therapists, like I always tell people like I'm probably not
• 1:15:16
  going to answer your call between these hours because I'm
• 1:15:19
  most likely. So that's me teaching you like
• 1:15:23
  do not call me during these hours because you'll be
• 1:15:26
  disappointed. Now if you keep calling me, then
• 1:15:28
  that's the problem. Then we have to talk about it.
• 1:15:32
  But if you respect that boundary and it works for you, then yeah,
• 1:15:37
  that's great green flag. Now we can move forward.
• 1:15:40
  OK, so this next segment, I think is a little bit juicy.
• 1:15:45
  Where have you ever seen it or have you ever done it where
• 1:15:49
  you're basically dating the same type of person over and over
• 1:15:51
  again? It's just a different body.
• 1:15:52
  You know what I mean? You got that type.
• 1:15:55
  You know what? They've all been different in
• 1:15:58
  their own ways. I mean, no one's exactly alike.
• 1:16:01
  I I But, yeah, when you, like, look at the similarities and
• 1:16:06
  energy, what they do. Yeah.
• 1:16:08
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:16:09
  OK. So why do you think so many
• 1:16:12
  people repeat, repeat those dating patterns even after
• 1:16:17
  therapy and self work? So we could talk about in
• 1:16:20
  general and then how it still happens after them doing some
• 1:16:24
  therapy and some work on self. Well, again, I think it feels
• 1:16:29
  fun. I think it feels exciting, it
• 1:16:32
  feels good initially. There is that familiarity,
• 1:16:36
  there's that. And of course, it's coming in a
• 1:16:38
  different package mostly. But I don't know about you.
• 1:16:43
  I've dated people who could be in a lineup and no one could be
• 1:16:46
  like, oh, this person is similar to this person.
• 1:16:49
  It's just a United Colors of Benetton Podge of like or
• 1:16:57
  related to each other. What yeah, could we pick out a
• 1:17:01
  few traits here and there that are similar potential?
• 1:17:05
  Yes. But I do think like that's the
• 1:17:07
  exciting part. Like great a new different
• 1:17:09
  person, an opportunity for a great relationship to come out
• 1:17:13
  of this or great something great daily experience.
• 1:17:17
  I'm not thinking about the last person or what the you know,
• 1:17:20
  what my general trajectory is in this space.
• 1:17:25
  I'm going off of this new shiny object.
• 1:17:28
  They have different stories, different backgrounds.
• 1:17:31
  They're fun to get to know. I like their job, they got money
• 1:17:34
  or they look good, whatever. So those things can be blinding
• 1:17:39
  to the fact that, oh, I'm getting the same feelings or the
• 1:17:42
  same butterflies or cues in my body that something may be a
• 1:17:47
  miss or I'm hearing, you know, home girl or sisters say, Are
• 1:17:52
  you sure about this one? And I'm ignoring it, you know,
• 1:17:56
  So I think that's why we can have that trend of like same
• 1:18:00
  person, because imagine if they came in the same package every
• 1:18:03
  time, we just like not again, we'd be like, no.
• 1:18:07
  Or, you know, even that person who's been toxic, who comes
• 1:18:10
  back, we are already on guard. Like I already know what I'm
• 1:18:14
  getting with this. So it's different because it
• 1:18:17
  looks different. So we go for it.
• 1:18:23
  Yeah, I had to. There was a part of me that had
• 1:18:28
  to realize that it's not that I liked love bombing as much as I
• 1:18:37
  like the intensity in the beginning, because it's good,
• 1:18:42
  it's exciting, right? But it fizzles out.
• 1:18:47
  Yes. And I think a lot of times you
• 1:18:48
  already, you already know, but you're hoping or something else
• 1:18:53
  different. You're writing a different
• 1:18:54
  ending and not looking at what's in front of you.
• 1:18:57
  Like you said, everything looks kind of different on the
• 1:19:01
  surface, but the feelings, the way that things develop, they
• 1:19:08
  could be familiar. And you know what it is?
• 1:19:10
  Yeah. Hope is hope is strong.
• 1:19:16
  I think that's all. And a lot of people, they're not
• 1:19:18
  operating in reality because a person people are out here
• 1:19:24
  selling dreams. Some people are out here selling
• 1:19:26
  dreams. And This is why you have to
• 1:19:29
  check for consistency for congruence between what they say
• 1:19:32
  and what they do and not just based on how you feel.
• 1:19:37
  Yeah, but I think that speaks to your other question about like
• 1:19:41
  when you've done the self work and the therapy, like we still
• 1:19:46
  and doubt ourselves and be like, you know, what?
• 1:19:48
  Am I being too harsh? Like even if the toxic person
• 1:19:51
  comes, we'll be like, well, maybe he changed or maybe they
• 1:19:55
  changed. You know, maybe this time is
• 1:19:57
  different, like a few years have passed by or my therapist
• 1:20:01
  doesn't know what they're talking about.
• 1:20:03
  You know, like I've definitely had sessions with clients where
• 1:20:07
  I'm damn near saying this person is a no.
• 1:20:10
  Abort, run away. Listen.
• 1:20:13
  And they don't. And sometimes you got to let
• 1:20:15
  them find out. And they've like all said it,
• 1:20:18
  they will double down and say no, this is the person.
• 1:20:21
  I'm like, OK, what do I know? Right.
• 1:20:25
  But again, that it's not about you though.
• 1:20:27
  Yeah, it's Peaky to the host and they want what they want.
• 1:20:33
  And so even if sometimes it's not even just hope, it's just
• 1:20:36
  that this is playing out the way that I saw it in my mind.
• 1:20:39
  This is what I want without recognizing.
• 1:20:42
  Like, you'll get it, but it's not going to be sustainable.
• 1:20:44
  Yeah. And you have to let people
• 1:20:47
  figure that out. And some people, they, they're
• 1:20:49
  not done with toxicity all the way.
• 1:20:52
  Yeah. And that's about many things,
• 1:20:55
  upbringing, whatever is happening in the background.
• 1:20:59
  There's a lot of women I've noticed who, you know, want to
• 1:21:03
  fix things and want things to work so bad that they're just
• 1:21:07
  going to stick it through. So I get it.
• 1:21:10
  And I think that's why a lot of us repeat patterns because we're
• 1:21:13
  like, this time it's going to work.
• 1:21:14
  Like, I can't, don't send me back out to the dating pool.
• 1:21:17
  I'm going to make it work and see.
• 1:21:21
  That can trigger some serious desperation, though, and it's
• 1:21:23
  still ending. Like, you might get into a
• 1:21:26
  serious relationship, might even find yourself in a whole
• 1:21:29
  marriage, but, like, will it be sustainable?
• 1:21:33
  Because you're operating out of fear, Right?
• 1:21:37
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:21:38
  I like talking about sustainability because a lot of
• 1:21:41
  times people can't keep things up, you know, well, and anxiety,
• 1:21:45
  as we've been talking about, and stress, those are things that we
• 1:21:48
  don't want to sustain overtime because, no, our bodies are not
• 1:21:53
  built to stay in that consistent state.
• 1:21:56
  Yeah. So what do you think?
• 1:22:00
  What does it really take to choose differently and not just
• 1:22:04
  like, know better, like know better and do better?
• 1:22:07
  What do you think that takes in terms of dating from a
• 1:22:09
  psychological perspective, from psychology?
• 1:22:13
  Well, I'm in of the belief that people should take a break.
• 1:22:18
  I don't believe that you should go from relationship to
• 1:22:22
  relationship to relationship to relationship.
• 1:22:25
  I think people should know what it feels like to be alone and to
• 1:22:28
  be with yourself because the more comfortable you are, the
• 1:22:33
  less that you're going to deal with those shenanigans of like,
• 1:22:38
  I'm trying to hold on because I don't want to be single.
• 1:22:40
  Because you should be comfortable using the word
• 1:22:42
  should. You should be comfortable being
• 1:22:46
  alone by yourself in a room solo because that's going to dictate
• 1:22:53
  what you allow and what you don't allow.
• 1:22:56
  So that would be my first step is take some time out to be
• 1:23:01
  alone if you have never been alone and you just keep jumping,
• 1:23:04
  yeah, the relationship because there are people who've been
• 1:23:07
  alone, but I think there are people who've been alone and
• 1:23:10
  depressed and being alone. So there's also like, can you
• 1:23:13
  find the value in it and value and comfort in not having anyone
• 1:23:20
  to text or go out with or, you know, do other things with and
• 1:23:25
  just be by yourself and enjoy your own company and enjoy
• 1:23:29
  knowing what you like and what you don't like and doing that
• 1:23:31
  self work like we were talking about.
• 1:23:33
  But I think it's also addressing, you know, what your
• 1:23:37
  upbringing taught you and what your parental wounds are, if
• 1:23:42
  there are any, what some of the things that keep repeating
• 1:23:47
  themselves in your dating space have been.
• 1:23:51
  And you know, there are also people who haven't dated.
• 1:23:54
  And I think it's worth exploring what that has looked like or
• 1:23:58
  what, you know, some of the anxiety and fear looks like
• 1:24:01
  there and helping them figure out, you know, one thing I asked
• 1:24:06
  my clients who want a date, I'm like, what are you looking for?
• 1:24:09
  Let's make let's make the list. You know, what is an ideal
• 1:24:13
  partner for you? Like, how would you know if
• 1:24:15
  someone is compatible to your lifestyle or to you?
• 1:24:19
  So this baseline, what do what do you want and going from
• 1:24:25
  there? And sometimes it is teaching
• 1:24:27
  like the information gathering piece that we've been talking
• 1:24:30
  about, like a lot of us again, weren't taught that were you
• 1:24:34
  like somebody and then that's it.
• 1:24:38
  Are you happy is not a question. Get married and have kids.
• 1:24:43
  Yikes, That could be a whole other part of myself.
• 1:24:50
  Like does happiness that right? Especially in relationships,
• 1:24:54
  that comes up a lot. And it does like I get it that
• 1:25:00
  people do what they have to do, but we're also like, I think
• 1:25:03
  society is different where we are not in survival mode the way
• 1:25:07
  that we had to and how things depended upon the family and
• 1:25:13
  things getting better and furthering.
• 1:25:14
  Like I really just like, you know, families look different.
• 1:25:19
  The traditional family isn't what everyone is living anymore
• 1:25:22
  or what people are aiming for. And more and more people are
• 1:25:25
  breaking out of that and creating their own version.
• 1:25:28
  And it's not to say that there's anything wrong with that
• 1:25:30
  traditional approach as much as I think people as things have
• 1:25:36
  evolved, the technology evolves, people see other ways and
• 1:25:38
  they're making it work for them their way.
• 1:25:41
  So, and I think a good way, it is kind of sum up like what
• 1:25:46
  you're saying, like healing. It doesn't mean that you stop
• 1:25:48
  attracting red flags. It means like you like stop
• 1:25:51
  entertaining it or you're not interested anymore.
• 1:25:54
  So I think that's a good marker to know post therapy, like, OK,
• 1:25:59
  I'm still attracted to them. I mean, because you're still an
• 1:26:01
  appealing person. But what you do you like, you'll
• 1:26:05
  get the ick from the red flags as you continue to grow.
• 1:26:08
  Yeah, I really agree with that. And just be able to look back
• 1:26:13
  and say I would not allow that to happen again.
• 1:26:16
  You know, you're in a different space.
• 1:26:19
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you really take that
• 1:26:22
  time to do work, you really do evolve.
• 1:26:24
  Like some people can really and truly transform.
• 1:26:27
  And I know we've all had ex. We're like, what was I thinking?
• 1:26:33
  Why didn't anybody say anything? But they're usually like, well,
• 1:26:39
  I thought you were happy. You seem so happy, Right?
• 1:26:42
  Or is the one you didn't tell people about?
• 1:26:45
  Because there's that too. Say more.
• 1:26:48
  What you mean with that? Some people hide stuff from
• 1:26:51
  their friends or will hide what happened for real.
• 1:26:56
  For real. What they said, what they did,
• 1:26:58
  what they didn't do. There's some.
• 1:27:01
  Yeah. Two people that we may not talk
• 1:27:03
  about extensively, you know, or if you bring them up, your
• 1:27:07
  friends would be like, which one was that?
• 1:27:10
  And you're like, don't tell you that story now what find?
• 1:27:18
  Look, you didn't told on yourself, right?
• 1:27:20
  Like Dang girl you wasn't supposed to talk about.
• 1:27:22
  Yeah, but sometimes we don't. They don't know story.
• 1:27:25
  So yeah. So they couldn't say anything.
• 1:27:28
  Basically my point, I've seen people do that or they've
• 1:27:33
  intentionally avoided some of those things.
• 1:27:36
  That would be like, for lack of a better way to put it, to vet
• 1:27:42
  somebody, right? Yeah.
• 1:27:45
  But they skipped the steps. They did what they wanted to do.
• 1:27:48
  So then it's like, OK, well, just let it play out.
• 1:27:52
  You don't say I told you so, but you should not say that.
• 1:27:57
  Yeah. It doesn't stop it, though.
• 1:27:59
  So shifting gears a little bit, how do you think faith has
• 1:28:03
  sometimes been misused to get people to tolerate emotional
• 1:28:09
  harm or the impact that faith has on people enduring more
• 1:28:17
  emotional harm? When you say faith, do you mean
• 1:28:20
  religious faith? I'm saying faith to do it
• 1:28:24
  general, like whether a person is spiritual beliefs higher than
• 1:28:28
  self. But like, I guess some of that
• 1:28:30
  would be more religious in nature.
• 1:28:34
  Yeah. I mean, I think people use use
• 1:28:37
  the word faith to sometimes make the case for suffering or for
• 1:28:44
  harm to be done in a way. And you know, being respectful
• 1:28:48
  of whatever religious beliefs or beliefs in general that people
• 1:28:51
  have. I think there are some that may
• 1:28:55
  suggest like you need to be with someone regardless of what's
• 1:29:01
  happening. You know, when we talk about the
• 1:29:03
  happiness piece, like it's not about happiness, it's about duty
• 1:29:07
  and honoring partnerships and whatnot.
• 1:29:11
  And you can never divorce or you can never whatever that may lend
• 1:29:17
  to you being a healthier person. So I've seen in clients talking
• 1:29:22
  about their upbringing in faith-based households or just
• 1:29:27
  what their expectations from their parents or churches or
• 1:29:31
  mosques or whoever is when it comes to relationships.
• 1:29:35
  And sometimes it can be positive where people have a community
• 1:29:39
  and they can check in with people and it's helpful.
• 1:29:42
  But sometimes it can go the other route where they have
• 1:29:45
  community and communities way too involved in all the goings
• 1:29:49
  on of the relationship, or they're losing people to stick
• 1:29:54
  it out when it's just not worth sticking out anymore.
• 1:30:00
  So I've seen a lot of different things happening that usually
• 1:30:04
  don't lend to a healthy relationship.
• 1:30:08
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it can be misused for sure.
• 1:30:13
  For sure. Thank you for that perspective.
• 1:30:16
  So in your opinion, what's the difference between giving grace
• 1:30:24
  and overextending? OK, a good question.
• 1:30:33
  Yeah. Yeah, I think you feel when
• 1:30:36
  you're overextended. Giving grace, I think is not an
• 1:30:40
  everyday thing because if you keep giving grace, I think that
• 1:30:45
  leads into overextending yourself.
• 1:30:48
  But I think it's also like, what is your capacity?
• 1:30:51
  And it, it also depends, you know, if we're talking about
• 1:30:54
  like the phone thing, like, OK, you can't call me consistently.
• 1:31:01
  All right, fine. Giving grace, let me know when
• 1:31:05
  you can. Overextending is now I'm calling
• 1:31:08
  you all the time, you know, because you can't call me and
• 1:31:11
  it's just like, all right. And they they can call you.
• 1:31:15
  They're not right. You jumped over it from grace to
• 1:31:18
  over extension. So and that emotional labor
• 1:31:22
  begins. Yeah.
• 1:31:24
  So I think grace is going next. We're talking about like, hey, I
• 1:31:27
  brought up this thing and then hit their behavior at least
• 1:31:30
  shows effort of like, I'm going to be accountable and deal with
• 1:31:34
  it. But then if I'm just like, OK,
• 1:31:37
  you can't do it now, I'll pick it up.
• 1:31:39
  And that's just overextended. Good, good.
• 1:31:43
  And say more about what you were saying.
• 1:31:46
  Like you can feel overextending in your body, just like when
• 1:31:50
  you're when you feel like you're making excuses or you feel like
• 1:31:54
  I'm bending too much. So I'm doing more than I signed
• 1:31:58
  up to do. I think we can feel it.
• 1:32:00
  We try to ignore it. And I can't pinpoint like an
• 1:32:05
  area in your body where you can feel it.
• 1:32:07
  But I think there is like a level of disappointment of, OK,
• 1:32:11
  now I have to do this thing that they're not doing.
• 1:32:14
  Or now I have to, you know, keep this up or hold this up so that
• 1:32:19
  we can continue relating or dating or whatever we're doing.
• 1:32:24
  And this other person is going to pick that up either.
• 1:32:29
  And I think a key marker is like you feel tension or resistance.
• 1:32:34
  And that could be experienced in so many different ways where
• 1:32:37
  like you can feel the different parts of your body, different
• 1:32:40
  areas are tightening up. Like it might be your jaw.
• 1:32:43
  We've talked about feeling things in your stomach, you
• 1:32:45
  might feel it in your back, all sorts of things.
• 1:32:48
  Like our bodies do different things that you don't know,
• 1:32:53
  especially after you're consistently exposed to like you
• 1:32:58
  when you were talking earlier about energy being like siphoned
• 1:33:00
  off, right? So if you're consistently around
• 1:33:02
  some of the siphoning energy and you're not yet aware of it,
• 1:33:05
  right, it might take a long time to notice it.
• 1:33:09
  And that overextending is now you do everything and they
• 1:33:13
  really just kick back. And so if you feel resentment,
• 1:33:16
  if you're looking at your, your mate, your partner and they look
• 1:33:20
  content and you're mad that you're doing stuff, you're
• 1:33:24
  overextending and it's time for a conversation for sure and
• 1:33:29
  figuring out how you got that communication.
• 1:33:33
  So yes, very much and a lot of negotiating that I don't think
• 1:33:38
  happens. I think some people they, their
• 1:33:40
  goal is to just get purchased per SE, Like if it's get you off
• 1:33:45
  the auction block, you know, the highest bidder and they, they,
• 1:33:50
  they, you know, then they, the rest of it is later.
• 1:33:52
  It's done. I don't have to do anything
• 1:33:54
  else. I got you there.
• 1:33:56
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:33:58
  So how can people date with compassion without losing
• 1:34:03
  themselves? And whether it's intentional or
• 1:34:06
  Because really, I think a lot of it is unintentional or
• 1:34:09
  unconscious self erasure or like, shrinking.
• 1:34:15
  Yeah. How can people do that?
• 1:34:17
  I think this is where I'm going to include the community
• 1:34:20
  aspects. I think checking, OK, checking
• 1:34:22
  in with friends and therapists or family as well, just in terms
• 1:34:27
  of like what's going on. But I think, you know, to my
• 1:34:29
  earlier point, sometimes people keep stuff to themselves, but I
• 1:34:33
  think it's helpful to like, seek counsel sometimes.
• 1:34:37
  Everyone shouldn't be asked, of course.
• 1:34:39
  I mean, I think we know who to go to sometimes and who not to
• 1:34:42
  go to. But trying to find like the
• 1:34:45
  neutral party or someone who's going to be more objective and
• 1:34:48
  like, hey, this is happening. What are your thoughts on this?
• 1:34:53
  Like, I've definitely had friends check in, like, oh, I
• 1:34:56
  like this person, but there's this thing that's an ick.
• 1:35:00
  Like, how would you handle it? Or how should I handle it?
• 1:35:03
  You know, being able to talk through that, I think, but I
• 1:35:07
  think that also comes from like, you know, when I was talking
• 1:35:10
  about like spending time with yourself, because I think we can
• 1:35:15
  extend how we feel about ourselves to other people.
• 1:35:19
  So if you can be compassionate to yourself, I think you can be
• 1:35:23
  compassionate with others versus yes, if you're always
• 1:35:27
  compassionate with others and not with yourself.
• 1:35:29
  And that's different ball game, but I think sometimes when we
• 1:35:33
  can extend that grace and love and compassionate others that
• 1:35:38
  can be helpful in guiding how we relate.
• 1:35:42
  That's so good. That's so good.
• 1:35:44
  Yeah. The self work is so important.
• 1:35:48
  And if you're not in a space where you are handling yourself
• 1:35:51
  with care and compassion, kind of hard to really and truly do
• 1:35:55
  that with someone else. Like you can.
• 1:35:57
  But your lack of self compassion is still going to come in.
• 1:36:01
  And possibly it can have a negative impact on the
• 1:36:04
  relationship for sure. Like you said, lose yourself.
• 1:36:07
  You don't want to lose yourself with someone.
• 1:36:09
  You want to be grounded and be able to really assess what's
• 1:36:13
  going on. Yeah, what you can offer.
• 1:36:17
  OK. And so why do you think pacing
• 1:36:20
  is so important in dating? Well, you don't want to be love
• 1:36:25
  bombed. I mean, unless you do, of
• 1:36:26
  course. But then know what you signing
• 1:36:29
  up for, right? But yeah, it's about that
• 1:36:32
  sustainability. Like if we're on, you know, we
• 1:36:35
  see each other every day for the first month and then that
• 1:36:39
  dwindles down. It's going to feel like, oh,
• 1:36:42
  this is going very bad. But it's just kind of settling
• 1:36:45
  into like, OK, this is we're being normal now.
• 1:36:48
  Like, I can't. And every day is not
• 1:36:51
  sustainable. Sustainable, which is why it's
• 1:36:54
  helpful to paste it out because you do want to information
• 1:36:57
  gather. You don't want to put all your
• 1:36:59
  eggs in one basket, as they say, and have all your energy on this
• 1:37:03
  one person, which I think is how a lot of us go wrong because we
• 1:37:07
  meet someone, we're like, well, they're the one.
• 1:37:09
  This is who I'm supposed to be with, and they're continuing to
• 1:37:12
  date. And meanwhile, you'd cut off
• 1:37:15
  people. And there's not even been a talk
• 1:37:17
  about exclusivity. Yeah, I mean, more than that.
• 1:37:20
  It's just that this is the option in front of you.
• 1:37:23
  So you feel like, OK, I have to put my all and do all the things
• 1:37:28
  and put all the empathy and that again feels sustainable.
• 1:37:33
  But in the long run, it's not because you don't even know the
• 1:37:36
  person. And then if you don't really
• 1:37:40
  like them that much, now you got to explain why you're not
• 1:37:43
  answering the floor. So why you don't want to go out?
• 1:37:47
  Why do you think? Or what contributes to someone
• 1:37:52
  taken and like they, this is the one they decide.
• 1:37:56
  I am going all in. I got to do everything.
• 1:37:58
  Like what do you think contributes to that?
• 1:38:01
  Well, I think there's a regional thing.
• 1:38:03
  I think if you live in a big city or like, you know, us in
• 1:38:07
  the DMV, like they are 10 women to one man.
• 1:38:11
  So when we meet a guy that we like, we're like, wow, I finally
• 1:38:15
  hit the lottery. It's my turn, you know, so that
• 1:38:19
  contributes to it. Or any big city where the
• 1:38:22
  magical thinking I just hit the lottery like, but that is how
• 1:38:26
  some people really feel. Yeah, you've won the prize.
• 1:38:30
  There's there's a lot of lack that can come through,
• 1:38:34
  especially when you're not always presented with options
• 1:38:37
  like not everyone is out here dating and thriving in the
• 1:38:40
  dating world. A lot of people don't date or
• 1:38:43
  have not dated for a long time. So when someone comes along, I
• 1:38:47
  think that's where things can get dicey because they're like,
• 1:38:52
  here's someone now I can finally do the thing I've been wanting
• 1:38:56
  to do. So they get excited and they
• 1:38:59
  want to do it every day. And it's, it's not appropriate
• 1:39:04
  because I've definitely have heard it through friends as well
• 1:39:09
  as past clients where they hadn't dated or have been
• 1:39:14
  celibate for an extended period of time or just abstained for a
• 1:39:18
  certain period of time. And then they meet someone at
• 1:39:20
  that. All this energy is flowing.
• 1:39:22
  And they felt, well, it's been too long since I've engaged with
• 1:39:27
  somebody like this. And so they picked this random
• 1:39:30
  person and then all this additional responsibility goes
• 1:39:35
  on to them. And it's like.
• 1:39:37
  But that's not how y'all started.
• 1:39:38
  You created this. You gave this person more access
• 1:39:43
  than what was appropriate for where you were and the
• 1:39:47
  relationship. And so sometimes that can
• 1:39:49
  happen. And just realizing that your own
• 1:39:52
  sometimes is loneliness, right? Like your lack of work.
• 1:39:55
  We're built for connection and community.
• 1:39:58
  And so it's easy to then feel good and going back to those
• 1:40:02
  feel good hormones, the dopamine and the oxytocin and the
• 1:40:09
  endorphins, all this good stuff that starts flowing.
• 1:40:15
  And now you're trying to put more responsibility on them.
• 1:40:18
  And it's like it doesn't match what had been happening.
• 1:40:21
  And so I think loneliness is one of those things that can get
• 1:40:25
  people caught up and make them throw caution to the wind or
• 1:40:29
  pacing to the wind. I think there's loneliness, but
• 1:40:33
  then there's also, like, the people who have been dating or
• 1:40:36
  the people that jump from relationship is just not knowing
• 1:40:40
  how to be alone or, you know, this is all I know is being in
• 1:40:46
  relationship with people. So what?
• 1:40:49
  So yeah, of course, we're hanging out every day or we're,
• 1:40:52
  you know, codependent now because that's, you know,
• 1:40:56
  another layer of something else. That codependence is real.
• 1:41:01
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:41:02
  But yeah, I've definitely seen a lot of the big city loneliness.
• 1:41:08
  I don't want to keep doing this because the dating team or the
• 1:41:13
  pool has key in it. Yeah, I think I think hope in a
• 1:41:18
  way starts to dwindle, especially the older that we
• 1:41:21
  get. People start making concessions
• 1:41:24
  and to your point earlier, settling because I think this is
• 1:41:29
  it. This is just.
• 1:41:31
  I'm going to stop here, you know?
• 1:41:34
  Yeah. And there's a difference between
• 1:41:36
  settling and adjusting to what reality says, right?
• 1:41:41
  So I think we get to a certain age, like the age we are now, a
• 1:41:45
  man with no kids is really like a Unicorn.
• 1:41:48
  Or even a woman with no kids is like a Unicorn.
• 1:41:51
  But if you have a strict no kids dating, know, know that your
• 1:41:59
  pool is going to be a lot smaller.
• 1:42:02
  So there's just certain realities that I think people
• 1:42:05
  have to take into account. And no one's saying you can't
• 1:42:08
  have it, but just know that that might be a little bit harder.
• 1:42:12
  Or do you need to rethink that? What if they have adult
• 1:42:14
  children? They're not young children like
• 1:42:17
  because you, this is also a a vision that you created in your
• 1:42:22
  teens or 20s. Yeah.
• 1:42:24
  Thinking that you all will have your first children together.
• 1:42:27
  And so you're not on your normal, your plan, your thought
• 1:42:30
  out timeline. It's it's reasonable to make
• 1:42:35
  adjustments. Yeah.
• 1:42:37
  And that's why. So it's not always settling.
• 1:42:39
  Yeah. That's why I like to ask my
• 1:42:40
  clients who are venturing to dating.
• 1:42:42
  So what are you looking for? What do you want?
• 1:42:44
  What do you not want? Because I can at least give them
• 1:42:49
  some grounding and reality and things.
• 1:42:53
  Not everyone is going to be 6 foot 2.
• 1:42:55
  So that's going to be, you know, and when you 5 foot, 5 foot even
• 1:43:01
  you do not need a six foot 2 million.
• 1:43:04
  I don't believe in that. I think that's oppositional
• 1:43:07
  language that you're using as a shorter person, I can be with
• 1:43:11
  whoever I want to be with. I didn't say you can't.
• 1:43:16
  I said you don't need. It's just always interesting to
• 1:43:19
  me. I mean, when you said that
• 1:43:22
  sounds like opposition of language.
• 1:43:24
  I I mean, for one, 7 foot. Now, what are you gonna say,
• 1:43:28
  girl? Good luck 'cause it's not that
• 1:43:30
  many of those in the world. But you, that's what you want,
• 1:43:33
  baby. Go find him.
• 1:43:35
  No, I'm just kidding. Go put yourself in that
• 1:43:37
  position. Yeah, I can need that and it's
• 1:43:41
  OK. But yes, they're going to be my
• 1:43:44
  pool will be smaller and that's fine.
• 1:43:46
  But it is kind of and that's a reality figure out that one has
• 1:43:50
  to yeah, that you have to understand like this is what the
• 1:43:55
  pool is based on your filters essentially.
• 1:43:58
  But again, I think that's why when I meet or someone meet
• 1:44:02
  someone that maybe fits the bill, it's like, OK, I'm going
• 1:44:06
  to put my energy into this one because they're meeting checking
• 1:44:12
  early boxes, of course, not the ones that count.
• 1:44:14
  But if he's 7, right, and have money and looks decent, I might
• 1:44:19
  be excited. So that's where people often,
• 1:44:24
  yeah, you know, stumble over because it's like you don't know
• 1:44:28
  them yet. So let's let's do some digging
• 1:44:30
  and maybe we should date other people in in the meantime and
• 1:44:34
  leave this open. So.
• 1:44:36
  Yeah. And So what you just said like
• 1:44:38
  that, those 3 characteristics, sometimes people stop data
• 1:44:43
  collection after that, they just decide I want them and I'm going
• 1:44:47
  to make it happen and they just go with it.
• 1:44:51
  They just go with it. So that's just something very,
• 1:44:54
  very different. Yeah.
• 1:44:57
  So how can someone slow down without feeling like they're
• 1:45:00
  sabotaging something good? Like, how can you?
• 1:45:03
  What are some ways that people know that, like their slow down,
• 1:45:07
  their approach is healthy without feeling like, yeah,
• 1:45:12
  maintain your life, you know, have a life.
• 1:45:18
  I'm not going to say act like they're not there, but do the
• 1:45:21
  things that you would typically do outside of that person
• 1:45:25
  because I think once you start creating too much space for
• 1:45:30
  them, that's when we start jumping in.
• 1:45:34
  Part of that is also emotional regulation, OK, You know,
• 1:45:38
  checking in on how you're feeling, not always looking for
• 1:45:43
  that dopamine hit from another person because I think it gets
• 1:45:47
  complicated too, because texting and calls, those act as dopamine
• 1:45:53
  hits. So now we're addicted to the
• 1:45:56
  person contacting us, even though, you know, whoever the
• 1:45:59
  person is, we like that notification.
• 1:46:02
  And then we're also addicted to engaging with them and being
• 1:46:06
  around them, whether it's time. So you want to, you know, it's
• 1:46:10
  like a drug, like obviously not a hard drug, but we want to do
• 1:46:14
  things in moderation versus going all out.
• 1:46:19
  So you might want to eat your favorite food, but you're not
• 1:46:22
  going to eat every day because then it's not that's not going
• 1:46:24
  to be your favorite food anymore.
• 1:46:26
  So it's like, all right, this will be a nice treat for, for
• 1:46:28
  this evening. And then tomorrow I'm going to
• 1:46:30
  go back to meal prepping or whatever.
• 1:46:34
  And you just want to make sure you're sustaining balance
• 1:46:38
  without jumping the deep end of I'm so in love with this person
• 1:46:43
  and I don't care what's going on with them or the information
• 1:46:47
  gathering. You know, I think he just, yeah,
• 1:46:50
  be normal, be cool and layman. Some people don't have cool,
• 1:46:54
  they don't have chill, they don't have normal, right where
• 1:46:59
  when they start feeling stuff, and especially if they haven't
• 1:47:02
  felt it in a long time, their engine is like, let's go.
• 1:47:07
  You know what I mean? They have no chill and they're
• 1:47:10
  not reading, they're not paying attention.
• 1:47:12
  It's solely based on how they feel.
• 1:47:14
  So I think if your feelings are that super like intense and big
• 1:47:19
  in the beginning, like I think that's the indicator one, OK,
• 1:47:22
  something is going on here. We like it, right?
• 1:47:25
  Something has awakened and pace it out.
• 1:47:28
  Like what is healthy? Am I reading what I'm seeing in
• 1:47:34
  front of me? Like I was watching the rookie
• 1:47:37
  and there was a he's like a character that like he's a
• 1:47:40
  reoccurring character, but like anyway, he fell in love with
• 1:47:46
  someone that was involved with one of them that fell in love.
• 1:47:49
  But like basically the lady was a exotic dancer and he was like,
• 1:47:53
  oh, she's so beautiful and he has a lot of money.
• 1:47:55
  He's very tall like what you described and he was kind of all
• 1:47:59
  right looking. That did not get him the lady
• 1:48:01
  lady because he came like he came.
• 1:48:03
  He had gifts for her and all his friends.
• 1:48:05
  He's like, I got all the millions.
• 1:48:07
  I'll spend them. And she's like, as much as I
• 1:48:10
  want this, you got to take the gifts back and all the things
• 1:48:13
  like he did too much. He didn't know what to do.
• 1:48:15
  He was so overwhelmed. I'll give you whatever.
• 1:48:17
  I just want you in my life, right?
• 1:48:20
  Is what he was feeling in that moment without actually having
• 1:48:24
  her in her life, having her in his life.
• 1:48:26
  So, and I don't think he was love bombing as much as he's
• 1:48:29
  just like, here you can have everything.
• 1:48:32
  And some people are generous in that way.
• 1:48:35
  I mean, they have to make sure they're not being taken
• 1:48:38
  advantage of as well. And so, you know, he got some
• 1:48:41
  feedback and he kind of like put it back, you know?
• 1:48:46
  Yeah, it was, it was, it's, it's pulling it back.
• 1:48:48
  It is, you know, taking that excitement and putting that
• 1:48:52
  energy in different spaces other than just in that person,
• 1:48:56
  because that is the emotional regulation piece.
• 1:48:59
  Like, yes, this thing is exciting, but I also have
• 1:49:03
  responsibilities to myself and the things around me.
• 1:49:07
  And you know, tonight we're going to have a date.
• 1:49:10
  So that's going to be our time together and it's going to be
• 1:49:13
  fun and best foot forward and everything.
• 1:49:15
  But tomorrow I have a presentation to do and then I'm
• 1:49:18
  going to work out and then I'm going to hang out with my
• 1:49:20
  friends. Like it's definitely like making
• 1:49:22
  sure that you are not acting like that person and saying
• 1:49:28
  here's the world's like it's yours.
• 1:49:30
  Because again, we're still in gathering and our bodies
• 1:49:34
  reacting, which is normal. It's biological.
• 1:49:37
  You know, everything that our bodies are doing is in in
• 1:49:40
  helping us survive and helping us reproduce.
• 1:49:43
  Yeah, The problem in the love space because our bodies like
• 1:49:46
  great, there's a mate now y'all got to make babies, but we have
• 1:49:50
  to be be the ones that be like, well, let's stop and figure out.
• 1:49:54
  It's a lot different now than back before you know where you
• 1:49:59
  could. It's a whole lot going on in
• 1:50:02
  this world and people are into a lot of things that you have to
• 1:50:05
  be careful about what you're welcoming and inviting into your
• 1:50:09
  life. OK, so OK, so for anyone who has
• 1:50:15
  missed the red flags, how can we help them to release that shame
• 1:50:20
  and to trust themselves again when mating, making dating
• 1:50:25
  decisions, take a break, go to therapy, hang out with your
• 1:50:33
  friends. You don't have friends, make
• 1:50:36
  friends, see community. But I think it's it's helpful
• 1:50:41
  to, you know, read books, do research, as intellectual as
• 1:50:49
  that sounds, I think it's it is good because like we're talking
• 1:50:53
  about, we don't get taught these things.
• 1:50:55
  No one taught us love bombing or manipulation, coercion, all
• 1:51:01
  these things is this. I think it's helpful to figure
• 1:51:04
  that out in the in between time. What is your attachment style?
• 1:51:09
  No. What are your red flags?
• 1:51:11
  For goodness sake? Because we're not all perfect.
• 1:51:13
  So yeah, just taking time to yourself to assess what happened
• 1:51:17
  and what didn't happen and what should have happened and go from
• 1:51:21
  there. OK, so Nyasha, do you have time
• 1:51:25
  to join me in breaking down a letter that was sent in?
• 1:51:31
  Sure, let's do it. OK, so it's not very long at
• 1:51:34
  all. So this is sent in by Oh, this
• 1:51:40
  is a little saucier than I thought.
• 1:51:42
  Hold on that I'm definitely sticking around for this one.
• 1:51:46
  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I think this one might be better
• 1:51:50
  for someone else, another guest for this month to to breakdown.
• 1:51:56
  Hold on, Let me look at this one and let me see, because I
• 1:51:58
  thought I had that. I was like, I missed the key
• 1:52:00
  detail there. You put my little watch on while
• 1:52:02
  you get the letter. Oh, get your lip gloss.
• 1:52:08
  OK Yeah, I know that's right. Get ready, girl, Get ready.
• 1:52:11
  OK. OK, so this is from JJ is 41 and
• 1:52:19
  says, Dear Doctor J Nicole, I've been told that I pull away when
• 1:52:23
  relationships start getting serious.
• 1:52:26
  I don't mean to hurt anyone, but when expectations increase, I
• 1:52:31
  feel overwhelmed and trapped. I want companionship, but I also
• 1:52:35
  value my independence. How do I know that I'm not just
• 1:52:39
  meeting? How do I know if I'm not just
• 1:52:42
  hold on? How do I know if I'm just not
• 1:52:45
  meeting the right person or if this is something I need to work
• 1:52:50
  on? Let's say, Jay, do you want to
• 1:52:55
  answer? What are your thoughts?
• 1:52:58
  OK, So what I love here is that there is curiosity that's
• 1:53:03
  happening, Jay, that something has been brought to your
• 1:53:05
  attention and you're not immediately pushing it back.
• 1:53:09
  It's been brought to your attention, you're acknowledging
• 1:53:12
  it, and you're saying you feel overwhelmed and trapped.
• 1:53:14
  I think it may be important to explore why you feel overwhelmed
• 1:53:19
  and trapped and what messaging you maybe got around commitment
• 1:53:23
  that informs that feeling overwhelmed and trapped feeling
• 1:53:26
  that you have. And I would encourage you to
• 1:53:29
  look at the data. I'm going to keep saying that,
• 1:53:32
  right? Look at the data.
• 1:53:35
  Does this person actually do things that make you feel
• 1:53:39
  trapped or overwhelmed? Or is it this sounds like it
• 1:53:42
  might be a me thing, as in a you thing and out of we thing with
• 1:53:45
  you and the other person that you're dating.
• 1:53:47
  So I think this is something that is worth exploring.
• 1:53:50
  It could also be that they're not the right people.
• 1:53:53
  I'd have more questions. I'd want to know about the last
• 1:53:57
  few times because it could look different with different people.
• 1:54:01
  What led to it because it could just be that, yeah, this is not
• 1:54:04
  given what I wanted to give. So we want to be careful about
• 1:54:09
  over generalizing because really and truly is not the one until
• 1:54:12
  it is, right. So you do every single one of
• 1:54:15
  those instances is something for you to learn.
• 1:54:18
  So I would encourage you to go back and look at the history of
• 1:54:22
  that, the choices you made, their behaviors and getting to
• 1:54:28
  the root. Because I would think that this
• 1:54:30
  is not really about the people you're dating as much as there
• 1:54:32
  is a belief and you may unconsciously be dating people
• 1:54:36
  that are going to overwhelm you and make you feel trapped
• 1:54:39
  because you have a belief about serious relationships.
• 1:54:43
  Overwhelm and being trapped. What you got, Doctor DA Yeah, I
• 1:54:48
  guess a piggyback. I feel like, I wonder if that's
• 1:54:52
  the way to not be in relationships because you're
• 1:54:57
  dating people whoever overwhelm you.
• 1:54:59
  So that's the, you know, kind of golden excuse of like, well, you
• 1:55:03
  know, she was asked for too much, so on to the next while.
• 1:55:05
  She was asked for too much, so on to the next.
• 1:55:07
  And then that's where I, like you said, I have more questions.
• 1:55:10
  Like, what does that mean? Like, what are these
• 1:55:14
  responsibilities that are bogging you down?
• 1:55:16
  Like, what? What is too deep for you?
• 1:55:20
  Yeah. And have they asked for it?
• 1:55:22
  Right. Or how are they because
• 1:55:24
  sometimes if at all, right? So I think there's both, have
• 1:55:27
  they asked, right? Is this what you believe that
• 1:55:31
  you should be doing and is it appropriate for where you are?
• 1:55:34
  Like I think this is a great time for like a conversation on
• 1:55:38
  negotiating. So then like, what does this
• 1:55:40
  means? Like you were saying earlier,
• 1:55:42
  and I think most people say it, communication, right?
• 1:55:46
  What do you need? There's a room for negotiating.
• 1:55:48
  It doesn't automatically mean you're serious.
• 1:55:50
  Now you got to do all these things.
• 1:55:51
  It could be a reflection of his values.
• 1:55:53
  Like if he's a traditional Southern man and being a
• 1:55:56
  boyfriend means that I do all of these things.
• 1:56:01
  That's that's his programming, right?
• 1:56:03
  Well, he also said he and I don't want to do that.
• 1:56:06
  Well, he said he buys his independence.
• 1:56:08
  So maybe you shouldn't be in relationships or relationships
• 1:56:14
  that are not long term are for you or they're more casual.
• 1:56:20
  But I would want to explore the root, as you said, like what did
• 1:56:23
  what did you see growing up? What do you feel is expected of
• 1:56:28
  you or expected when you are in relationship?
• 1:56:30
  Or again, what are these women asking for?
• 1:56:33
  Not asking for like, because it could be a you thing or it could
• 1:56:38
  be a we thing and that there just wasn't enough
• 1:56:42
  communication. Because I think one thing that
• 1:56:46
  especially if you've ever been to therapy and you've had a good
• 1:56:49
  therapist, you know, we know that words mean things.
• 1:56:53
  So when I say, oh, I'm happy, that could mean one thing to me
• 1:56:58
  and another thing to you. So what does it mean if someone
• 1:57:01
  says and you do this? Maybe you interpreted that as
• 1:57:06
  she wants me to give her the world when she just asked you
• 1:57:10
  to, like, pick up some groceries.
• 1:57:13
  Well, what does it mean when people say different things?
• 1:57:18
  Yeah, We have more questions, Jay.
• 1:57:20
  So if you would like to book a session with one of them, Right,
• 1:57:25
  That would be lovely. We're happy and we're happy to
• 1:57:28
  do that for sure. Yeah.
• 1:57:31
  There's there's so much that's in there.
• 1:57:32
  And I don't think they'd have to be alone.
• 1:57:35
  They have to find a person who will give them that
• 1:57:39
  independence. So someone who's more securely
• 1:57:42
  attached or maybe even a little morally avoidance side where
• 1:57:46
  they're also going to value their independence.
• 1:57:50
  Yeah. I mean, I do think there's
• 1:57:52
  credence to that. Like I've had a lot of clients
• 1:57:55
  where I'm like, you attract people who are very anxious or
• 1:57:58
  you attract needy people or you attract, you know, fixer offers
• 1:58:03
  like, but you are also complaining that they need you
• 1:58:07
  or that they need fixing or whatever.
• 1:58:09
  You know, So it could be that Jay is attracting people that
• 1:58:13
  want a lot of things. Could be there's, there's so
• 1:58:18
  much. So yeah, Jay, we both are
• 1:58:21
  accepting clients, but thank you, Nyasha for weighing in on
• 1:58:28
  that one. I appreciate it.
• 1:58:30
  So we're going to close with the signature question.
• 1:58:32
  If you could leave the audience with one powerful truth to help
• 1:58:36
  them to rise and thrive, what would it be?
• 1:58:41
  That's so much pressure, one powerful truth.
• 1:58:44
  I'm going to say a thing that we've had is information
• 1:58:49
  gathering. So I will say that you should
• 1:58:53
  lead with curiosity and be open to people learning you as well.
• 1:58:57
  And I think that's across the board.
• 1:59:00
  Relationships of all kinds, work, romantic friendship.
• 1:59:05
  That's good, that's good. Thank you, Nyasha.
• 1:59:08
  That was a really good like I'm a big fan of curiosity.
• 1:59:13
  Be curious. All right, so audience, this is
• 1:59:17
  where we shift to you. I want you to reflect.
• 1:59:21
  Where have I confused intensity with intimacy?
• 1:59:25
  What patterns am I ready to stop explaining away?
• 1:59:29
  And do I know my green flags or just my red flags?
• 1:59:33
  So those are some three points I want you to reflect on.
• 1:59:35
  Then I want you to take action. Write down 3 green flags that
• 1:59:39
  you want to see consistency and excuse me, that you want to see
• 1:59:43
  consistently, not eventually. I will also want you to practice
• 1:59:48
  observing behavior over time instead of early investment
• 1:59:53
  emotionally and look too much because you might be taking on a
• 1:59:57
  little more. Then you're actually ready for
• 2:00:00
  it. And then I want you to pause
• 2:00:04
  after dates and do some reflecting.
• 2:00:06
  How do I feel? Do you feel grounded?
• 2:00:09
  Do you feel settled? Where are you feeling it in your
• 2:00:11
  body? Like what's happening?
• 2:00:13
  And then I want to affirm you. I trust myself.
• 2:00:18
  I recognize red flags without fear and green flags without
• 2:00:22
  confusion. I choose relationships that feel
• 2:00:26
  safe. So thank you again for joining
• 2:00:30
  us on Rise and Thrive with Doctor J Nicole.
• 2:00:32
  Make sure you continue to send in your relationship letters and
• 2:00:35
  we'll break them down here with guests or sometimes you might
• 2:00:40
  just get the exclusive from Doctor J Nicole.
• 2:00:42
  I also want to encourage you to check out the merch.
• 2:00:45
  Go to the above a Doctor J nicole.com goes to the podcast
• 2:00:48
  page. Click shop the merch.
• 2:00:50
  It'll be there for you. I'll also include the link in
• 2:00:54
  the description box below. Make sure you come back next
• 2:00:57
  week. We're going to have more for you
• 2:01:00
  in the month of love. And special thank you again to
• 2:01:04
  my good friend and Sora, Doctor Nayasha, for joining us today
• 2:01:08
  and giving the logical perspective on green and red
• 2:01:11
  flag. Thank you.
• 2:01:15
  All right, well, we'll see you all next time.
• 2:01:17
  Thanks for tuning in. All right, girl.