Latest / The Diva Details / Needles & Nirvana: How Acupuncture Rewires Stress, Pain, and Longevity

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Needles & Nirvana: How Acupuncture Rewires Stress, Pain, and Longevity · The Diva Details

0:01
Welcome to the Diva Detail. Welcome to the
0:04
Diva Detail, where bold, confident women embrace
0:08
life unapologetically. From love and sex to
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wellness and reinvention, we keep it raw,
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real, and powerful. No filters, no limits,
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just fearless conversations to help you thrive. Let's dive
0:24
in with Diva Mia.
0:30
Hello, beautiful people. Welcome back. This is Diva Mia. And today
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we're going to talk about acupuncture for stress, for pain management, and for
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longevity. Last episode, we talked about the power of touch and
0:42
everything massage can do for your body and your lifespan. If you
0:45
missed it, go back and listen because today's episode is its sister.
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Today we are talking about how acupuncture is so beneficial
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for you. I know some of you flinched with the thought of needles. Oh my
0:56
gosh. Needles on purpose? I know it sounds crazy, but let
1:00
me tell you, the needles are not what you think. Acupuncture needles are about as
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thin as a strand of hair. Many people barely feel them going
1:06
in. A lot of people fall asleep on the table. Seriously, I do this
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at least every 2 to 4 weeks and I pass right out. I fall asleep.
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It's a great nap time. It's very relaxing. It relaxes you in ways that I
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don't know if anything else really does. We are going to go back thousands
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of years to where acupuncture came from. And I'm gonna walk you through the
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meridians again and the energy map of Chinese medicine, and I'll show
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you why they line up in so many fascinating ways with the chakras
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that we talked about last time on the massage podcast. Then we're gonna go into
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the research that says about acupuncture for stress. I don't know if
1:41
you know this, but acupuncture is used in hospitals in China, that with herbal
1:45
medicine. And there's, you can actually perform acupuncture
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on someone and they can undergo operations with surgery and
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not feel it. It's so interesting the things that acupuncture
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can do. Acupuncture is there for stress, for blood flow. It helps the
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lymphatic system, arthritis, and chronic pain and acute pain.
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We're going to talk about longevity as well, including the point that's
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literally nicknamed the longevity point. I'm going to tell you about how often
2:13
you should go and, and what feels good. And sometimes when you're having a
2:17
flare-up, you need to go more often as well. And then there's acupressure points
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that you can do on yourself today, in your ears, on your hands,
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on your feet. And acupressure is wonderful too,
2:27
is you can do that at home. So find a nice cozy spot, let your
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shoulders drop, take a deep breath in, and let's get started. So the word acupuncture
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comes from Latin, acus, which means needle, and puncture means pricking.
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But the practice itself has come from China and it's extremely
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ancient. So back in 1991, a hiker in the Alps found
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a frozen man who had lived around 3,300 BCE.
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Scientists nicknamed him Ötzi, the Iceman.
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His body has dozens of small tattoos, many of tiny
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lines and crosses. Researchers noticed that many of those tattoos
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sit near points used in acupuncture and close to where he
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likely had joint and back pain. This could be a very early form
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of point-based treatment. It's a theory, not proven,
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but it's still— it's wild to imagine that acupuncture has been around
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for so long. In China, the earliest tools were likely the foundation The foundational
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text again is the Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine. It's compiled
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roughly 2,000 years ago. One part of it called the Ling Shu or
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Spiritual Pivot is basically an acupuncture manual.
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It describes the channels the body energy, the body's energy travels
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through and 9 different types of needles. And it holds an idea
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I love for a longevity show. And the classic suggests that the
3:45
best doctors treat illness before it arises, and that's not
3:49
against Western medicine. It's just Eastern medicine. Sometimes they,
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they're more preventative. Don't wait until you're sick to seek treatment. It's like digging a
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well once you're already thirsty. Prevention, ladies and gentlemen, was the
4:00
original goal with medicine. Around the 3rd century, a physician wrote the first
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book devoted entirely to acupuncture. It organizes the points in
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a system that influenced practitioners for centuries. Now here's
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one of my favorite stories. In the year 1027,
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a court physician had life-sized bronze statues cast to teach
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acupuncture. The statues had tiny holes at each point.
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For exams, the statues were covered in wax and filled with water.
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A student had to needle a point through the wax. If they hit the
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right spot, water would trickle out. If they missed,
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nothing. Talk about a pop quiz. Acupuncture spread to Korea and
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Japan by around the 6th century, and each culture made its own. In Japan,
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a blind acupuncturist in the 1600s is credited
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with popularizing the guide tube, a little tube that
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helps the needle slip in quickly and nearly painlessly.
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Many practitioners still use it today, and that is one of the
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reasons modern acupuncture is so gentle. It's the little
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tube that goes around the needle. Europeans first wrote
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about acupuncture in the 1600s through Dutch physicists who
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worked in Asia, but it didn't really take off in the US until 1971.
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So here it's pretty new. A New York Times reporter named James
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Reston was traveling in China when he needed an
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emergency appendectomy. Afterwards, doctor used acupuncture to ease his post-surgery
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pain, and he wrote about it in the paper. Americans were fascinated,
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and that article helped open the door. Since then, acupuncture has moved steadily
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into the mainstream media. In 1996, the FDA reclassified acupuncture
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needles as regulated medical devices. So 1996,
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not to date myself, but I wasn't just coming outta college back then.
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And it's funny cuz I was doing acupuncture in early 2000.
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In 1997, a National Institute of Health
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consensus panel said there was clear evidence acupuncture helped
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with nausea after surgery and chemotherapy and
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with dental pain. So a lot of people with cancer are using acupuncture. It's offered
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in hospitals and cancer clinics. It helps with anti-aging.
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You can do acupuncture on your face and avoid Botox.
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You can do acupuncture with weight loss. You can do acupuncture to help
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with chronic pain, to help your autoimmune or to stimulate your liver or your
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kidneys. Kidneys or your heart, acupuncture is a wonderful thing. The US
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military and VA uses a form of ear acupressure and acupuncture called
6:26
battlefield acupuncture for pain. Most states now license the acupuncturists
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as well. From sharpened stones to hospital wards, that's quite a journey.
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In traditional Chinese medicine, life energy is called chi.
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It's pronounced chi. Chi is said to flow through
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the body along pathways called meridians. So chi or channels
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flows through your body. Health is when Qi flows
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smoothly and is balanced between Yin and Yang.
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Yin is cool, quiet, inward, restorative. Yang is warm, active,
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outward, energizing. Pain and illness are seen as Qi that's
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blocked, deficient, or out of balance. Acupuncture points are
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spotted along the meridians where the practitioners can influence the
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flow. There are 12 primary meridians, each linked to an organ system. Now,
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in Chinese medicine, an organ is more than the physical organ.
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It is web of function, emotions, and seasons. The 12
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common yin-yang pairs grouped under the 5 elements. Now remember
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that we have things that flow, nerve endings and pressures that
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flow throughout our whole body. So you could actually hit a part on your foot
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and be triggering your liver at the same time. Wood is
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the liver and gallbladder. Wood is about growing, planning, and smooth
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flow. And its emotion is anger or frustration.
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So if you've ever met anyone with an anger issue,
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or they, they, they hold on to their anger. They may also have a
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liver issue because a lot of times people bottle up their anger inside
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their body and then their organs start to suffer. When you're stressed
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and irritable, a practitioner will often say your liver qi is stuck.
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Fire is the heart and small intestines, plus 2 more,
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the pericardium, which protects the heart, and the triple burner,
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which coordinates water and warmth through the body. Fire is among
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joy, connection, and the spirit. Earth is the spleen
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and stomach. Earth is digestion, nourishment, and stability. Its emotion
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is worry and overthinking. Hello, that 2 AM thought spiral.
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That's your, that's your earth. Metal is the lung and
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large intestine. Metal is about breath, boundaries, and letting go.
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Its emotion is grief. And I don't know about you,
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sometimes when I'm not letting go of something, my digestive system and large
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intestine doesn't seem to be functioning very well. Water is the kidney and bladder.
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And for a longevity show, water is the big one. In Chinese medicine,
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the kidney stores your essence. Think of your deep reserve
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of vitality, your essence. You're born with a certain amount and how you live,
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how you eat, how you rest, how you burn the candle at both ends.
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If you have addictions, it determines how fast you drain your
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essence. You know, sometimes they say people that are sex addicted or
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drug addicted, or addicted to work, their essence
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has been drained and they're running on fumes or an empty vessel.
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Protecting your yin is the traditional Chinese philosophy of
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longevity. Its emotion is fear. There's also a
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beautiful idea called the organ clock, which says qi moves through each
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meridian at peak in a 2-hour window across the
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day. For example, the liver's window is 1 to 3:00 AM. If you
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wake up in the middle of the night between 1 and 3:00 AM, sometimes they
9:33
say that there's something might be wrong with your liver. And the lung is from
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3 to 5:00 AM. Many practitioners will ask you what time you wake up at
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night because in this tradition, it's a clue. Science hasn't confirmed the organ clock,
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but it, it rhymes nicely with what we know about circadian
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rhythms. Our organs really do run on daily cycles
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and sleeping at night is foundational to health.
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Beyond the 12, there are 8 extraordinary vessels.
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2 of them matter a lot for today. The Ren vessel or conception
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vessel runs straight up the front middle of the body. The Du
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vessel or governing vessel runs straight up the back along the spine
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and over the top of the head together with the 12 that give the 14
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main channels that hold the classic set of about 360
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points. And now my favorite part. Remember the chakras
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from last episode? 7 energy centers stacked along
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the midline from the base of the spine to the crown. Well, look where
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the vessels run right along the midline, the same midline. And some
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of the most important points sit in strikingly similar spots.
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At the very bottom where the root chakra sits below the,
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the belly near the sacral chakra, you have the
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sea of chi, your body's energy reservoir. In the upper abdomen
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near the solar plexus chakra, there's major digestive points.
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In the center of the chest, the heart chakra is used to open the chest
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and settle emotion. At the notch, the base of the throat, the throat chakra
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is used for the throat and the voice. Between the eyebrows, the third
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eye, is the Hall of Impression, one of the most calming points
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there is. And at the top of the head, the crown chakra, its meaning
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is 100 meanings. It's where many channels come together.
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So a lot of times when you go in for acupuncture, they're going to do
11:20
your third eye right between your eyebrows and then at the very top. 2 cultures,
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2 languages, and 2 completely different maps, and they keep circling the
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same places. But now to be fair and accurate, scientists have not
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found meridians or chakras as physical structures. But researchers have
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noticed that many acupuncture points sit near nerves. Some of them sit near
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blood vessels and the planes of connective tissue called the fascia between
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muscles. So there may be real and anatomical story behind
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these ancient maps that weren't— we're just now still learning about and learning
11:51
to read about. Let's talk about stress because this is one of the top reasons
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people walk into an acupuncture office, even if they came in for back
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pain. In Chinese medicine, the term stress is often described as
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stuck liver Qi because your liver holds onto a lot of stress.
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Energy that supports to flow smoothly gets tight and tangled,
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and you feel it as irritable tension, headaches, a tight jaw,
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PMS, trouble sleeping, or digestion that goes haywire
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when you're upset. A classic treatment used is
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a combination called the Four Gates. It's on the hands in the web of between
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your thumb and index finger and on top of your
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foot. Between the big toe and the second toe. So if you,
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2 on each side. Now, what does Western science say? When a
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needle goes in, it stimulates nerves in the skin and muscle that
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sends signals to the spinal cord and the brain. Researchers have found
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that acupuncture can trigger the release of the body's own pain-relieving and mood-related chemicals
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like endorphins. And brain imaging study shows it can change
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activity in the areas of the brain involved in pain and emotion. There's also exciting
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work on the stress axis, the chain from your brain to your adrenal glands
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that controls cortisol. Animal studies have found that acupuncture
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can calm that stress response. Reviews suggest acupuncture
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can help reduce anxiety. Though many studies are small, the evidence
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is still promising rather than rock solid so far. But I will tell you
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from anecdotal evidence for me, it does definitely relax me. It does
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help me. I had a gallbladder problem where I had a gallbladder
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attack a couple years ago. I went in for acupuncture every single day after.
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Just to calm my body down, went on some Chinese herbs, and I ended up
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keeping my gallbladder because of it. Now I'm not a doctor and I'm not going
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to say that everybody has the same result, but because of that experience,
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I took acupuncture to a whole new level in my mindset as
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far as healing goes. Here's a cool connection. It also connects
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to the vagus nerve, the rest and digest nerve we talked about last
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episode. The vagus nerve has a branch that reaches the outer ear.
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So that's one reason ear acupuncture is so popular. So a lot of times
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when you go for an acupuncturist, they may give you some pressure points to press
14:00
on your ear with these little sticky tabs so that you can
14:04
press on your ear in between your treatments. There's a 5-point ear protocol used
14:08
widely in addiction and trauma recovery where people often sit in a group quietly
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with these tiny needles in their ear. Many describe it as deeply
14:16
calming. You know, there's been hypnosis, there's been different
14:20
types of treatments, EMDR. It helps with drug
14:24
addictions, different types of sex addictions, different types of personality disorders.
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Some of these things can be treated with needles. Isn't interesting. And what
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nearly everyone notices is whether the science says is that acupuncture
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is the nap after. You lie there with needles in the room and
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quiet. 20 minutes go by in what feels like 5.
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People call it the acubuzz or the acustoned,
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that, that deep, heavy relaxation in your nervous system shifting gears. I will
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tell you, you're on the middle of a little massage table and you just pass
14:55
right out. And it's so relaxing. I will say it's very relaxing. I always
14:59
get a nice nap in. And now let's talk about circulation. In Chinese medicine,
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there's a saying that's that where qi goes, blood flows. Qi and
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blood are partners. Where qi is stuck, blood can stagnate,
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and that's often how traditional practitioners explain sharp,
15:13
fixed pain. So modern studies have measured what happened to
15:16
blood flow when needles go in, and research has found that acupuncture
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has increased local blood flow in the skin and muscles around the needle.
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Part of that seems to come from the release of nitric oxide.
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That's a molecule that releases blood vessels and lets them, them widen.
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There's a body of research on acupuncture for blood pressure.
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Some women have actually used it for menopause symptoms. If you have hypertension,
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think of acupuncture as a possible complement, never a replacement for your medicine.
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Don't say, I'm just gonna go do acupuncture and I'm gonna go off my meds.
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No, that's not the way it works. It's a supplement to.
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And the lymphatic system, I wanna be very clear here because this is different
15:53
from massage. Acupuncture is not a lymphatic drainage technique.
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Lymphatic drainage, as we covered last episode, is a hands-on
16:00
massage. It's gentle motions. Acupuncture works more through the nervous
16:04
system and local circulation. With that said, Chinese medicine has its
16:08
own way of talking about fluid. A practitioner might describe puffiness,
16:11
heaviness, and sluggishness digestion as dampness.
16:15
And they also look at your tongue typically on the top and under the bottom,
16:18
as well as your eyes. And it's often linked to weak spleen.
16:22
Points like this on the inside of the lower leg below the knee
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and traditional used for, to resolve dampness. And here's
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an important note for anyone who has had breast cancer or lymph nodes removed.
16:34
For years, patients were told never to have needles in an arm at risk
16:39
for lymphedema because of the infection. Early studies suggest it may be
16:43
safe in the hands of a trained practitioner. Make sure everything's clean. It can actually
16:46
help with your swelling. But this is a specialized area. If that's what you're
16:50
looking for, find an acupuncturist who works with oncology patients and
16:54
get your cancer teams okay first. But my honest advice
16:57
is if puffiness and lymph flow are your main goal, Do lymphatic
17:02
drainage plus movement and use acupuncture for stress and pain release and
17:06
kind of an overall balance. They complement each other beautifully.
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Now we're gonna talk a little bit about chronic pain. This is where acupuncture
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has the most research behind it in the West, because in the West we have
17:16
a lot of chronic pain. A team of researchers combined individual patient
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data from dozens of high-quality trials, more than 20,000 patients
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for chronic pain conditions, including back pain, neck pain,
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osteoarthritis, and headaches. They found that acupuncture worked better than
17:31
no acupuncture and better than sham acupuncture, which is fake
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or shallow needling. Importantly, the benefits largely, they held up over
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a year. For arthritis specifically, the American College
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of Rheumatology in 2019 guidelines conditionally
17:46
recommended acupuncture for osteoarthritis of the knee,
17:49
hip, and hand. I will say it's also helped my ankle. Scientists are also debating
17:53
why even shallow needling triggers some of the same effects as regular
17:56
acupuncture. But for someone with arthritis pain,
17:59
the practical takeaway is that many people get meaningful relief
18:04
the risks are low, it may help you rely less on pain meds. That matters
18:07
because long-term use of anti-inflammatory pills can be very hard
18:11
on your stomach, on your kidneys, and even on your heart. Rheumatoid arthritis,
18:15
it's a big one. The evidence is a little bit thinner, but acupuncture may help
18:19
with pain and quality of life, but it doesn't change the underlying autoimmune disease.
18:23
If you have rheumatoid arthritis, keep working with your rheumatologist
18:28
and treat acupuncture as support for pain, sleep, and stress. For those of you dealing
18:31
with arthritis, here's my favorite Power combo acupuncture to calm
18:35
the pain, massage to keep the tissues around the joints soft
18:39
and mobile, and gentle stretching and strength training to support the joints.
18:43
Each one works. And if you do them all together, they work
18:47
even better. Longevity, sometimes it's not a quick fix. I think so
18:50
many people are looking for that quick fix pill they can just pop in their
18:55
mouth. But longevity, it takes daily practice and daily work and
18:59
weekly work. Chinese medicine has been obsessed with long life for thousands
19:03
of years. Remember Jing, your essence? Your inherited
19:06
battery, the whole philosophy is about protecting it.
19:09
Rest when you're tired, eat warm nourishing food,
19:13
live with the seasons, don't overdo it, and tune up
19:16
before you break down. And there's a point with the legendary representation.
19:20
It's called your Stomach 36. The name means Leg 3
19:24
Mile. The story goes that the soldier would stimulate
19:28
it so they could march 3 more miles when exhausted.
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It sits about 4 finger widths below the kneecap. And one
19:35
finger width towards the outside of the shin bone. In Japan,
19:39
there's a long tradition of warming this point, burning a small
19:43
amount of the, of the herb mugwort near the skin as a longevity practice.
19:47
Chronic low-grade inflammation is one of the biggest drivers of aging
19:51
for people. So when you connect it all, acupuncture supports
19:55
longevity by lowering stress, easing chronic pain, so you keep
19:59
moving, improving sleep for many people, and possibly calming inflammation.
20:04
And philosophically, it brings you into a relationship with your health before
20:08
something goes wrong. Again, preventative medicine. Now,
20:11
how often should you go? For a new or acute issue like
20:14
a pain flare, a stress crisis, or insomnia, most acupuncturists
20:18
recommend 1 or 2 sessions a week. If it's extremely critical,
20:22
you might have to go every day for a few days. Many people notice
20:25
a change within 3 to 6 weeks. For chronic conditions like
20:30
arthritis, chronic back pain, or ongoing anxiety, a typical plan
20:34
is once or twice a week for 6 to 8 weeks. That matches what many
20:38
of the clinical trial vials used, then you taper back to every 2 weeks,
20:42
then once a month. Right now I'm on once a month maintenance.
20:45
For maintenance and longevity, once a month is a lovely rhythm. And there's
20:49
a traditional approach I adore. It's a seasonal tune-up. 4 times a year at the
20:52
change of each season, you go into a rebalance. Chinese medicine believes
20:56
that each season places different demands on the body. So it
21:00
fits perfectly for a longevity lifestyle.
21:03
Twice a week is for the start of treatment. When you need momentum,
21:07
once a week is the steady therapeutic dose, and then month or seasonally is
21:11
more of a maintenance, same patterns as massage. And that's no
21:15
accident. Your body likes consistency. Here's my rules for acupuncture.
21:18
1, see a licensed practitioner. In most states, that's a
21:22
licensed acupuncturist, often with the letters LAC,
21:26
or a medical doctor trained in medical acupuncture. Also know that
21:31
dry needling, often done by a physical therapist, it's related but different.
21:35
It focuses on trigger points in muscles without the Chinese medicine framework.
21:38
Or number 2, make sure they only use sterile needles and ask if
21:42
you're unsure. The needles should be brand new every single time.
21:45
And number 3, share your full health history. Tell them if you're pregnant or
21:49
trying to conceive, because certain points, including some of the points I mentioned
21:53
earlier for stress, are traditionally avoided in pregnancy. Tell them if you're on
21:57
blood thinners, having a bleeding disorder, a pacemaker,
22:00
which matters if they use electrical stimulation, or a
22:04
weakened immune system. You should also make sure,
22:07
number 4, is that you have— if you have serious side effects, or especially in
22:11
trained hands, the most common are a little bit of bruising, a bit of soreness,
22:14
or feeling lightheaded. Very rarely a needle placed too
22:18
deep or in the chest or back can puncture a lung. But you know,
22:20
honestly, I've never had acupuncture come anywhere near that, which this
22:25
is exactly why training matters though. And finally, prep and aftercare.
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Eat a light meal an hour or 2 before so you don't feel faint.
22:32
Wear loose clothes and don't come in hungover. You don't want to do
22:36
acupuncture if you're hungover. Afterward, drink a lot of water, just like you do
22:40
in massage and skip the hard work and the cocktails that day and
22:43
let yourself rest. Let your body rest. You may feel sleepy. And if you
22:47
do, take a nap. If you're curious about acupuncture, there's cousins.
22:50
There's also cupping. I've done cupping as well. Gosh, I've done almost all of
22:54
these healing modalities. The suction cups that leaves those round marks.
22:59
And now your at-home acupressure. There's no needles,
23:02
just firm controlled pressure with your thumb in small
23:06
circles for 1 or 2 minutes per point when you breathe slowly. And the
23:10
first one is 3 fingers across the inside of your wrist,
23:13
starting at the crease. If you, if you put your hand out
23:18
out and you go 3 fingers down from the crease, the point is just above
23:22
your fingers and oh, it feels so good between the 2 tendons. It's famous for
23:26
nausea. That's why they have those nausea wristbands with those
23:30
little hard plastic things in there that are supposed to help you with nausea
23:34
if you get seasickness. It's calming for anxiety. And then there's one between
23:38
your eyebrows. Gently pressure, press on slow circles.
23:42
It's wonderful before you go to sleep or in a stressful moment. In the web
23:46
between your thumb and your index finger, that's a high point of the muscle,
23:50
you press and hold it together. So if you put your finger like an L
23:54
and then you press— oh, that feels good too. That fixes a lot. It's great
23:58
for tension. It's great. Skip this one if you're pregnant. Completely skip it because
24:02
you don't want to do that. But because it's kind of like a point that
24:04
just helps all different areas, but if you're pregnant, you're going to need to skip
24:08
that. Then there's the longevity point, 4 finger widths below the kneecap and
24:11
then 1 finger towards the outside. It's like right along your shin. And if you
24:15
press on that, it It's the longevity point. And so if you wanna live a
24:19
long life, and if it's sore, sometimes I've always been told
24:22
if an area is super sore, that means that it needs, it needs the chi
24:26
to flow better. There's another point on the sole of your feet in the dip
24:30
about a third of the way down from the toes. Its name means bubbling
24:34
and it's grounding, it's root energy, and you can roll a ball under
24:38
it. And bonus, if you gently tap the top of your head,
24:42
the crown with your fingertip for about 30 seconds,
24:45
it'll wake yourself up. So if you are sleepy during the day or you're sleepy
24:48
in a class, you know, keep tapping the top of your head for
24:52
about 30 seconds and see what happens, because this might help you get through your
24:56
day without the coffee. And then there's a few longevity, you know, habits that are
24:59
straightforward from the Chinese medicine playbook. You got to go to bed no later than
25:03
11, preferably no later than 10, before the gallbladder and liver hours
25:07
begin. If you're going to bed after 11 or 10 o'clock, your liver
25:11
and your gallbladder may be struggling. And you need to favor warm cooked food,
25:14
especially in winter, and live with the seasons and try tai chi
25:19
or qigong, gentle moving meditations that researchers
25:23
link to better balance and fewer falls in older adults.
25:27
I mean, tai chi is great for older adults. It's like relaxed kata.
25:31
So let's bring it home. Acupuncture is thousands of years old.
25:34
It's from sharpened stones to bronze startups to hospital wards It's
25:38
built on the meridians, right? And there's a map.
25:41
It can calm your stresses. It can help your response to stressful
25:45
situations and helps blood flow, ease chronic
25:49
pain, and helps with inflammation. So twice a week to start, if you need it,
25:52
up to once a week for therapy and monthly or seasonally to stay well.
25:57
And if you pair it with what we talked about last episode with lymphatic movement,
26:01
good sleep, human touch, I think you're going to get the most
26:06
bang for your buck. So if this episode's helped you, share it with somebody that
26:08
you think might use acupuncture and why it might be
26:12
helpful to them. I think longevity is a process in life.
26:15
It's not a destination. It's all about what you do daily.
26:19
I hope this helped. I know that changing and shifting into
26:23
new ways of being takes time and change sometimes takes a little bit of
26:27
struggle, but I think you can do it because your health is worth it.
26:30
This is Diva Mia. Live long, live well, and stay focused and
26:34
love yourself because we are all about love. Take care. Ciao ciao.
26:44
Thanks for tuning in. Like, subscribe, and drop
26:48
a comment. We love hearing from you. Visit thedivadetails.com
26:53
to connect. See you next week for more.
27:00
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