Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / The questions looming over the Cubs as offseason begins

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The questions looming over the Cubs as offseason begins · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory, presented by Fox One Foul Territory
0:08
Speaker 1: Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadev Charma with my partner Patrick Mooney.
0:12
Speaker 1: We are your Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic
0:16
Speaker 1: and Patrick, the Cubs season is over, eliminated by the
0:21
Speaker 1: Milwaukee Brewers in five games.
0:23
Speaker 2: It was a great series.
0:25
Speaker 1: These are two even teams, but the Brewers just came
0:29
Speaker 1: out on top. They outpitched them essentially through so many
0:36
Speaker 1: arms at them all series long, and it just you know,
0:39
Speaker 1: they outlasted them in five games. The scene in Milwaukee,
0:47
Speaker 1: I think we all kind of focused on this after
0:50
Speaker 1: that final out, just you know, the streamer is coming
0:54
Speaker 1: from the sky there and Cubs players just kind of
1:01
Speaker 1: staring off into the watching the celebration as the Brewers,
1:06
Speaker 1: you know, advanced to face the Dodgers, and there's Niko
1:10
Speaker 1: arms wrong, Nico Horner staring off into the distance, and
1:16
Speaker 1: Pete Krol Armstrong, who I don't think anybody is surprised
1:19
Speaker 1: to see him, just kind of with his arms draped
1:23
Speaker 1: over the dugout railing and just kind of staring off
1:26
Speaker 1: and kind of soaking it all in. And I guess
1:29
Speaker 1: taking in the pain would be the best way to
1:32
Speaker 1: describe it.
1:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was weird to see a team that was
1:39
Speaker 3: so onto the next one, that compartmentalized everything for them
1:44
Speaker 3: to have to face the end. And you could see
1:48
Speaker 3: Pete's eyes were still red. He had this like glassy
1:52
Speaker 3: look in his eyes. By the time the clubhouse opened
1:55
Speaker 3: to the media, and Nico Horner was extremely emotion know,
2:01
Speaker 3: he gave several, as always extremely insightful answers, but you
2:06
Speaker 3: could tell he was kind of catching himself here and
2:09
Speaker 3: there because the emotions were were coming. I mean, Dansby
2:14
Speaker 3: Swanson was in full uniform, like probably an hour after
2:19
Speaker 3: the game. I mean he had his you know, sandals
2:23
Speaker 3: or slides on, but otherwise his jersey was on, just full,
2:27
Speaker 3: full uniform otherwise. But then they start to process it
2:36
Speaker 3: and they're doing the hugs, crack open a couple of beers.
2:40
Speaker 3: What's uh, what do we got in the spread back there?
2:43
Speaker 3: You know that's always and it's like it just felt
2:48
Speaker 3: to me like a team that did not have its
2:53
Speaker 3: kind of world come crashing down in the sense like
2:56
Speaker 3: reading our buddy Matt Gelps coverage of the Phillies and
2:59
Speaker 3: the Athletic that is okay as the manager on the
3:02
Speaker 3: hot seat, all these you know, iconic players about to
3:06
Speaker 3: come free agents or key players about to come free agents,
3:10
Speaker 3: an angry owner, a Hall of Fame Caliver executive who's
3:14
Speaker 3: known to make bold decisions. This to me didn't quite
3:18
Speaker 3: have that weight. But I mean, clearly a disappointment and
3:25
Speaker 3: a season that left Cubs fans wanting more, no doubt.
3:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's that's inevitable when you lose the
3:33
Speaker 1: final game of the season. You know, Cubs fans, I
3:37
Speaker 1: have to say this, You know, Cubs fans, you should
3:40
Speaker 1: be proud of yourselves. That atmosphere created a Wrigley Field.
3:45
Speaker 1: Anyone that says, you know, you're just there to have
3:48
Speaker 1: a beer.
3:49
Speaker 2: It's the world's largest beer garden.
3:52
Speaker 1: They have not been to Wrigley Field during the playoffs recently,
3:56
Speaker 1: and it's been a while. I hope that is what
4:00
Speaker 1: you know Wrigley Field is in the postseason going forward.
4:03
Speaker 1: I hope it wasn't just because it has been a while.
4:07
Speaker 1: But man, were those fans on top of every moment.
4:11
Speaker 2: And this is not me ripping the Brewers fans.
4:17
Speaker 1: But they needed like cajoling from the scoreboard to tell
4:22
Speaker 1: them like here for this guy's name, chant this guy's name.
4:26
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen at wrigley Field. They did that on
4:29
Speaker 1: their own, and I was impressed. And I don't know
4:32
Speaker 1: if I guess I didn't sense that reputation for Wrigley
4:37
Speaker 1: Field and Cubs fans, but I think they deserve it now.
4:42
Speaker 1: They were into the game, they knew what was going on,
4:45
Speaker 1: they could sense the big moments, and they were on
4:47
Speaker 1: top of that. Like that was That's my biggest takeaway
4:51
Speaker 1: as far as something I learned about in this postseason.
4:54
Speaker 1: I was impressed, but the way fans reacted and the
4:57
Speaker 1: way they supported that team, and it was you know
5:00
Speaker 1: that that clubhouse Nico Horners who stood out to me.
5:07
Speaker 1: There were like four questions maybe, and I think we
5:10
Speaker 1: all kind of after like listening to him, we all
5:13
Speaker 1: kind of like looked at each other. We're like, I
5:15
Speaker 1: I got no more I can't I can't ask this
5:17
Speaker 1: guy any more questions, Like I like he's making me sad.
5:21
Speaker 1: This is like he was very like very thoughtful and
5:25
Speaker 1: it wasn't like he was tearing up, but you could
5:28
Speaker 1: sense the emotion. You could feel it, how passionate he
5:31
Speaker 1: was and how much the end of that hurt. And
5:33
Speaker 1: he's just like one of those players that's like he
5:38
Speaker 1: just played so well, he rose to the moment. It
5:40
Speaker 1: was really it was fun to watch him play and
5:43
Speaker 1: kind of his type of baseball works anytime against any
5:47
Speaker 1: type of pitcher, against any team. Uh, and it worked
5:51
Speaker 1: in the postseason and he was on base all the time,
5:53
Speaker 1: getting you know, single after single.
5:56
Speaker 2: It's not he's not a power hitter.
5:58
Speaker 1: I think he had one home run that one x
6:00
Speaker 1: base hit in the first game blowout loss to the Brewers,
6:04
Speaker 1: but just you know, it was fun to watch him
6:06
Speaker 1: play and kind of rise to the occasion. Someone that
6:08
Speaker 1: deserves to be a part of winning and hasn't really
6:12
Speaker 1: seen much in his cub's career, so that his post
6:18
Speaker 1: game is what really stood out to me. Yeah, it
6:23
Speaker 1: was a yeah, I just can't I can't get really
6:27
Speaker 1: fully passed. How how he was just kind of like
6:32
Speaker 1: pouring himself out there without fully like opening up, but
6:36
Speaker 1: like really like it was so clear how much this hurt,
6:40
Speaker 1: and he like kind of held back in a sense
6:42
Speaker 1: of like he didn't like break down in front of us,
6:44
Speaker 1: but it was like, man, this guy and he's got
6:47
Speaker 1: like this stare when he's feeling a lot of emotion
6:51
Speaker 1: that you can kind of see, and you're like, Okay,
6:54
Speaker 1: I just need to walk away now, otherwise I think
6:56
Speaker 1: I'm gonna like feel like I'm in a therapy session
6:58
Speaker 1: or something like that.
7:00
Speaker 3: I mean, I've said this before, and whenever I talk
7:05
Speaker 3: to Nico, I feel the same way when I'm walking away.
7:07
Speaker 3: He talks like theo Epstein, like his voice, his pacing,
7:13
Speaker 3: his insights, his ability to, like in say ninety seconds,
7:19
Speaker 3: cover six or seven different topics coherently acknowledge one side
7:24
Speaker 3: of the argument, acknowledge the other side of the argument,
7:27
Speaker 3: and then tie it all together in the end and
7:29
Speaker 3: like a synthesizing comment. And he does it as someone
7:34
Speaker 3: who is a high level player, a goal glove defender,
7:38
Speaker 3: universally respected in that clubhouse. It's super impressive. I think
7:45
Speaker 3: that's probably a story we'll write at some point this
7:48
Speaker 3: October of just kind of Nico how he really made
7:52
Speaker 3: his mark during these playoffs. And you know, you walked
7:59
Speaker 3: around the clubhouse and you see different guys you're kind
8:04
Speaker 3: of packing up. There was certainly like a core group
8:07
Speaker 3: of players, like there was a lot of players who
8:10
Speaker 3: just did not really see the field, and clearly there
8:14
Speaker 3: was a bulbend sort of hierarchy there. We'll get into
8:20
Speaker 3: a lot of those other kind of matters in subsequent shows,
8:26
Speaker 3: but I think there's one guy. If it's not Nico,
8:29
Speaker 3: the other guy that everyone was talking about was Kyle Tucker.
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9:33
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Northside Territory presented by Fox One. The
9:37
Speaker 1: Kyle Tucker question, I mean, we've been talking about.
9:41
Speaker 2: It since that trade occurred.
9:44
Speaker 1: This is not a surprise to anyone that it is
9:48
Speaker 1: a big topic, and it was, if not the first question,
9:53
Speaker 1: one of the first questions he faced after the game.
9:57
Speaker 1: What is he going to do? Like, what are his
10:00
Speaker 1: thoughts about free agency? You know, just in general, not
10:05
Speaker 1: much of a like of insight there from Kyle Tucker.
10:09
Speaker 2: I don't think we got any groundbreaking.
10:11
Speaker 1: News kind of what he's said all season long, but
10:17
Speaker 1: with the finality of the season upon us. He just
10:20
Speaker 1: basically said, you know, we'll see if I'm here, I'm
10:22
Speaker 1: here if I'm not.
10:23
Speaker 2: Good luck to.
10:24
Speaker 1: These guys is what was one of the comments. So
10:30
Speaker 1: not much there, But I think we all, at least
10:34
Speaker 1: you and I many of our colleagues and the people
10:38
Speaker 1: we talked to. I don't think anyone really sees a
10:41
Speaker 1: scenario with Kyle Tucker coming back to the Cups.
10:45
Speaker 3: Well, that question was like a leading question, something along
10:51
Speaker 3: the lines of, you know, how much would you like
10:56
Speaker 3: to be here? Like can't you see yourself being here
11:00
Speaker 3: for a long time? It was. It was not a neutral,
11:03
Speaker 3: open ended question, and he still went there. I was like,
11:06
Speaker 3: oh't know, we'll see what happens, and gave the best
11:10
Speaker 3: of luck quote, which I believe our buddy John Greenberg
11:16
Speaker 3: was saying. It was like, you know, a yearbook message
11:18
Speaker 3: or something like that. You wrote this. I picked up
11:23
Speaker 3: on it the next day in the athletic of This
11:26
Speaker 3: is not someone who's gonna emote for the cameras or
11:29
Speaker 3: like wax poetic about Chicago Cubs baseball, and he should
11:35
Speaker 3: not be judged on that. I think that personality helped
11:41
Speaker 3: turn him into one of the best hitters in the game.
11:45
Speaker 3: But like, if you're looking for signs, there are different
11:47
Speaker 3: ways you can answer this or handle things. And it's
11:51
Speaker 3: not even the answers of the body language which he
11:53
Speaker 3: was shrugging, Like that question we're talking about. He's like
11:56
Speaker 3: uh and shrugged. Yeah, He's more of just watched the games,
12:01
Speaker 3: watch what happened. Like there's nothing in that second half
12:05
Speaker 3: that made you think the Cubs have to go all
12:10
Speaker 3: out to sign this guy. There's no sort of public
12:13
Speaker 3: pressure in that regard. Not that the Cub's cave to that,
12:17
Speaker 3: but I think that played a role in bringing Cody
12:18
Speaker 3: Bellinger back. I think there was like kind of a
12:21
Speaker 3: bit of an antsiness there. I wonder how the rest
12:28
Speaker 3: of the baseball industry views him after this year. Maybe
12:33
Speaker 3: it I think it certainly has come down from the
12:35
Speaker 3: heights that we thought were possible. When Vladd Junior signed
12:39
Speaker 3: his five hundred million dollars deal with the Blue Jays,
12:42
Speaker 3: I realized that was different circumstances. But you start talking
12:46
Speaker 3: about this very exceedingly small group of elite hitters in
12:50
Speaker 3: the game. Kyle Tucker is in that one, and you know,
12:56
Speaker 3: I'm I don't think he'll be a Cub next year.
13:00
Speaker 3: But I wouldn't put it at zero percent, just in
13:04
Speaker 3: the sense of, like you never really know what's gonna
13:09
Speaker 3: happen in free agency. Like I remember being told Dexter
13:13
Speaker 3: Fowler is gonna get paid, there's no chance he's coming back,
13:16
Speaker 3: and then he's That was towards the end of that
13:19
Speaker 3: fifteen season, and then he reaches an agreement with the Orioles.
13:24
Speaker 3: Then all of a sudden, he shows up at spring
13:25
Speaker 3: training with the Cubs, surprising I think even like Rizzo, right,
13:28
Speaker 3: like those guys like, wait, is that Dexter Fowler? That
13:31
Speaker 3: kind of looks like Dexter Fowler. Uh So, obviously that's
13:35
Speaker 3: an extremely rare scenario. I'm not like banking on it,
13:41
Speaker 3: but I do think in the moment, people are gonna
13:44
Speaker 3: be down on Kyle Tucker. But I do think once
13:46
Speaker 3: you step back and look at what else is out
13:49
Speaker 3: there and how you solve for wins, to use a
13:53
Speaker 3: Cubs term like Kyle Tucker helps a lot, and it's
13:56
Speaker 3: just gonna come down to it's the same thing it
13:58
Speaker 3: always does as the Cubs. It's what do their models say?
14:02
Speaker 3: What does he want? Like they're not shutting the door.
14:05
Speaker 3: It's just that I don't think there's any like momentum
14:09
Speaker 3: or urgency or traction here yet.
14:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't think.
14:14
Speaker 1: I don't think the Cubs are front office that sorry,
14:18
Speaker 1: are going to judge everything off of what was it,
14:22
Speaker 1: eight games in the postseason. But Tucker didn't have a
14:26
Speaker 1: monster postseason. He didn't have a terrible postseason. He didn't
14:30
Speaker 1: have a monster postseason. He brought up lad junior lad
14:32
Speaker 1: juniors had a monster postseason.
14:36
Speaker 2: That it's eight games.
14:38
Speaker 1: I'm not it's not every Everything isn't decided on that.
14:44
Speaker 1: I do think going to an even like you know,
14:48
Speaker 1: the Mats or the Yankees, how would he handle that
14:52
Speaker 1: media market? How would the media handle him? They may
14:56
Speaker 1: be harsher with his you know, kind of boring answers.
15:01
Speaker 1: Not always available for the It's not that he wasn't available,
15:05
Speaker 1: it's that he's just not He's not someone you go
15:07
Speaker 1: to a lot and say, like, this is the guy
15:10
Speaker 1: to get the you know, the interesting quotes to the
15:12
Speaker 1: team leader and face of the franchise type guy. He's
15:16
Speaker 1: just not that type of person. And I think in
15:20
Speaker 1: a market like New York he'd get criticized for that.
15:23
Speaker 2: That would be hard for him.
15:25
Speaker 1: I do think I'd just be very surprised if he
15:30
Speaker 1: comes back to the Cubs. Here's another thing, like if
15:32
Speaker 1: the Cubs if he's looking for a bounce back contract,
15:35
Speaker 1: which I don't I've gotten no indication of that. But
15:39
Speaker 1: let's let's just play that scenario out. Why would he
15:43
Speaker 1: come to the Cubs. Why would a left handed hitter,
15:46
Speaker 1: power hitter come to Wrigley Field, where a place that's
15:50
Speaker 1: suppressed offense, especially for lefties the past two seasons. Just
15:56
Speaker 1: side note. There all the more reason to give Michael
15:59
Speaker 1: Bush crat for the season he just had. But Kyle Tucker,
16:05
Speaker 1: if he is looking for that type of deal, which
16:07
Speaker 1: is something I'm sure the Cubs would like for any player.
16:10
Speaker 1: They love those types of deals, I just why not
16:15
Speaker 1: go to another place?
16:16
Speaker 2: Why not go to.
16:17
Speaker 1: The Yankees If they want to do a deal like that,
16:19
Speaker 1: Just go go to Tampa, Go go anywhere else that
16:24
Speaker 1: makes that where you or your offense isn't suppressed by
16:27
Speaker 1: the ballpark.
16:30
Speaker 2: That's that would be my thought.
16:31
Speaker 1: On a short term like opt out type deal where
16:35
Speaker 1: Tucker is looking to cash in after next season, I
16:38
Speaker 1: don't think that happens. I think he gets the type
16:40
Speaker 1: of like a semi respectable deal. I don't think he's
16:44
Speaker 1: getting glad you in your money. All that talk is
16:47
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody in baseball really believes that now.
16:50
Speaker 1: It kind of is like what range is it? Two
16:54
Speaker 1: hundred three hundred, Like that's kind of what people are
16:57
Speaker 1: thinking right now. And when you talk to people around
16:59
Speaker 1: Bay and that, you know he'll be fine. He's going
17:02
Speaker 1: to I think he's going to get a long term deal.
17:06
Speaker 1: I just don't see it with the Cubs. I agree
17:08
Speaker 1: with you, we can't put it at zero percent because
17:11
Speaker 1: off seasons are weird and weird things happen. I just
17:14
Speaker 1: like it's hard for me to envision how he comes back.
17:17
Speaker 2: I don't.
17:20
Speaker 1: I don't love like too much criticism about you know,
17:24
Speaker 1: he was hurt, he had issues, Like his numbers were great,
17:29
Speaker 1: he had a really great season. I think that can't
17:34
Speaker 1: be overlooked. I just I don't want to, you know,
17:39
Speaker 1: tear him down because of that second half. But it
17:42
Speaker 1: did happen, and it was, you know, at times perplexing,
17:46
Speaker 1: and then especially the postseason just not the final that
17:51
Speaker 1: the final game is going to linger for a while
17:54
Speaker 1: for some people, I feel, and it was you know
17:57
Speaker 1: they had one threat in that final game, and he
18:00
Speaker 1: happens to come up in a pretty big moment and
18:03
Speaker 1: can't get the job done. Unfair to criticize him for
18:06
Speaker 1: one at bat, but that's why he's here, to come
18:10
Speaker 1: up in the biggest moments and deliver.
18:12
Speaker 2: That didn't happen.
18:13
Speaker 1: So that may just be the lingering memory of the
18:16
Speaker 1: Kyle Tucker Cubs experience.
18:19
Speaker 2: But he certainly had a great season.
18:22
Speaker 1: I think, you know, how you replace that, what you
18:26
Speaker 1: do is more relevant to what we're going to be
18:28
Speaker 1: discussing this winter than like, is he coming back and
18:32
Speaker 1: is he worth the money?
18:33
Speaker 2: I just don't.
18:35
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to happen. We'll we'll, we'll
18:38
Speaker 1: have to talk about it until he's signed wherever it is, because,
18:43
Speaker 1: like you said, there's that outside possibility. But you know,
18:47
Speaker 1: I think the real discussion is in other areas.
18:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just think, like Kyle Tucker could see
18:56
Speaker 3: what's out there and the Cubs could sort of assess things,
18:59
Speaker 3: And I'm with you, I don't think they are super
19:05
Speaker 3: keen on going long term. I think it's not so
19:10
Speaker 3: much the playoff ats bats as much as missing September.
19:15
Speaker 3: He had an injury last year that cost him a
19:19
Speaker 3: couple months, however long it was. As you get older,
19:22
Speaker 3: you approach thirty, like how far into his thirties do
19:26
Speaker 3: you want to invest in? And that's something the Cubs
19:29
Speaker 3: are not super interested in. But I still think there's
19:36
Speaker 3: the only reason he would do some sort of short
19:38
Speaker 3: term thing is that if he is that confident or
19:41
Speaker 3: like his agency wants the super big, super long contract
19:46
Speaker 3: that much that they're willing to kind of risk it
19:49
Speaker 3: for another year because it's still someone who's like, well
19:52
Speaker 3: like forty percent better than the average major league hitter
19:57
Speaker 3: over like more than three thousand played appearances in the majors. Like,
20:02
Speaker 3: I still think if he walks out the door, I
20:08
Speaker 3: don't think you can just plug in Owen Casey, Moises
20:11
Speaker 3: bi Asteris and Sasis who. I think you still need
20:13
Speaker 3: someone somewhere else. I know you alluded it to it
20:16
Speaker 3: in your three questions piece on the athletic of like
20:20
Speaker 3: do you go back to Bregman? Is there a trade
20:25
Speaker 3: out there? I just don't. That offense was so good
20:30
Speaker 3: in the first half and he was such a huge
20:32
Speaker 3: part of it, and even in those three prior elimination games,
20:36
Speaker 3: he was getting on base a ton against you know,
20:40
Speaker 3: good pitching. Lock didn't pitch it, but like I think
20:42
Speaker 3: he was on base like nine times in those three
20:45
Speaker 3: three previous elimination games this October. So I get it
20:51
Speaker 3: if they're not really super interested in you being a
20:54
Speaker 3: part of Kyle Tucker's long term future. I just don't think,
20:57
Speaker 3: to your points how that you can just totally just
21:00
Speaker 3: miss him because he was awesome for a long stitch
21:03
Speaker 3: of this season, for most of his career.
21:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean those at bats were really good up
21:07
Speaker 1: until the final game. They were certain he took some
21:09
Speaker 1: really good pitches. Uh, that Ashby at bat, I know,
21:14
Speaker 1: like I said, it's going to linger, but that was, like,
21:16
Speaker 1: those are some nasty pitches. Yes, he got the three
21:19
Speaker 1: to one pitch was right down the middle, but that's
21:21
Speaker 1: a nasty that's that's a hard pitch to hit coming
21:24
Speaker 1: from a lefty.
21:25
Speaker 2: That is why he's there to hit those pitches. I
21:28
Speaker 2: get it.
21:28
Speaker 1: But the one that got him to strike out, that
21:31
Speaker 1: was just a perfect pitch, Just an awesome pitch. You
21:35
Speaker 1: got to give some credit to the opposition, Uh, they
21:39
Speaker 1: but he had some really good at bats leading up
21:41
Speaker 1: to that. Did not like was not chasing, just you know,
21:44
Speaker 1: quality at bats. I thought you wanted to. There was
21:47
Speaker 1: a there was a point I thought.
21:49
Speaker 2: He had kind of clicked and it's like, ooh, okay,
21:52
Speaker 2: he hits that home run.
21:53
Speaker 1: What kind of game vibe are we going to get?
21:55
Speaker 1: It didn't happen. He didn't deliver, and now you know,
21:58
Speaker 1: narratives are written after that, and.
22:03
Speaker 2: I like, yeah.
22:05
Speaker 1: He's incredibly impactful, changes the dynamic of the lineup when
22:10
Speaker 1: he's healthy and out there.
22:12
Speaker 2: We can't just ignore that first half.
22:16
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about, like how how they kind of
22:18
Speaker 1: look at what else is going on this offseason?
22:21
Speaker 2: Take a quick break. That's it.
22:23
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23:24
Speaker 1: Welcome back to North Side Territory presented by Fox One.
23:27
Speaker 2: Patrick.
23:28
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what direction they'll go to
23:31
Speaker 1: help the offense. If Kyle Tucker heads elsewhere. It's that
23:37
Speaker 1: I think is going to be fascinating. I think it's
23:39
Speaker 1: really risky, Like you said, to just stick with all
23:42
Speaker 1: youngsters somewhere they need another veteran somehow. I'll be curious
23:47
Speaker 1: to do that. But that's that's not the only issue
23:50
Speaker 1: with this team. They're losing. There were five bullpen arms
23:54
Speaker 1: that were leaned on in this postseason and kind of
24:00
Speaker 1: on the stretch, you kind of know who Craig Counsel
24:03
Speaker 1: was trusting. Danian Plenci is the only one guaranteed to
24:06
Speaker 1: return unless he's part of a trade package or something
24:09
Speaker 1: like that. But he's only one that they can have
24:11
Speaker 1: complete control over and expect to be back. Andrew Kittridge,
24:16
Speaker 1: I believe has a nine million dollar option that has
24:21
Speaker 1: a one million dollar buyout. Maybe he's worth that. Maybe
24:25
Speaker 1: they deem like this is what his value is on
24:28
Speaker 1: the open market, and that's and they decide to pick
24:33
Speaker 1: that up. I think you and I would both be
24:35
Speaker 1: surprised by that. I don't want to put words in
24:38
Speaker 1: your mouth, but I'd be surprised by that. It just
24:40
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like what this front office does. And then
24:42
Speaker 1: it's Brad Keller, Drew Pomerantz, Caleb Thielbar all free agents,
24:46
Speaker 1: all huge parts of this season, and the bullpen.
24:51
Speaker 2: You know you were there for.
24:53
Speaker 1: When Brad Keller talked Drew Promerance indicated that you know,
24:57
Speaker 1: he he'd like to play some more.
24:58
Speaker 2: He's not retiring just yet. He'd like to continue playing.
25:02
Speaker 1: Brad Keller, I think indicated that you know, he'd love
25:05
Speaker 1: to be back.
25:06
Speaker 2: I love to come back to the Cubs.
25:09
Speaker 1: I think it's really hard to envision a scenario where
25:11
Speaker 1: those guys come back the Cubs. Just the Cubs front
25:14
Speaker 1: office doesn't do that. They find those guys and they
25:19
Speaker 1: hope that they have the bounce back or breakout season
25:23
Speaker 1: and then they kind of let them get paid, go
25:25
Speaker 1: get paid.
25:27
Speaker 2: It's a risky way to go about it.
25:28
Speaker 1: Because sometimes it doesn't always lock in, or sometimes it
25:31
Speaker 1: takes a while, or sometimes those guys just stay injured
25:34
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. So it's risky, but it's worked
25:40
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, twenty two, didn't work, in twenty three,
25:44
Speaker 1: didn't work so well in twenty four, then it worked
25:47
Speaker 1: great in twenty five. So you see, like it's a
25:49
Speaker 1: mixed bag. But I think that's a huge question going
25:54
Speaker 1: into the offseason.
25:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I circled back to Keller just to kind of
26:00
Speaker 3: ask him, you know, his thoughts, and he said, once again,
26:04
Speaker 3: this is the most fun I've ever had playing baseball.
26:06
Speaker 3: Of course that I love the city, love to come back,
26:11
Speaker 3: And he's also aware that he's proven something to both
26:15
Speaker 3: himself and the entire baseball industry. And being a trusted
26:20
Speaker 3: guy in elimination games, the end of elimination games. You're right,
26:26
Speaker 3: I don't Kidtrid's a hard one for me to see
26:29
Speaker 3: them picking up. I think that would probably prevent one
26:35
Speaker 3: of those other guys from coming back. It just when
26:37
Speaker 3: you think about the Cups bullpen, it seems like they
26:39
Speaker 3: like taking shots on goal, to use a jet analogy.
26:44
Speaker 3: And then if you start locking up nine million here
26:46
Speaker 3: whatever would cost for Keller, like like then all of
26:50
Speaker 3: a sudden, you're you're kind of boxed in, not just
26:55
Speaker 3: with the money, but the roster spot, the flexibility, the
27:00
Speaker 3: ability to for next year's Drew palm Rance who's at
27:04
Speaker 3: some Triple A affiliate and trying to get his way
27:07
Speaker 3: out of a minor league deal and force his way
27:10
Speaker 3: onto a major league roster. Keller's the one, like he's
27:15
Speaker 3: a little younger than those other guys, and like he
27:17
Speaker 3: had been a you know, a starter for a while.
27:19
Speaker 3: And the Cubs had their reasons, as you wrote from
27:22
Speaker 3: like your first day at spring training, of why they
27:24
Speaker 3: like this guy and what they were seeing. Not saying
27:27
Speaker 3: he will be the exception, but I think they'd have
27:29
Speaker 3: to like be pretty open minded about Keller just because
27:32
Speaker 3: of all the different roles he did and how you know,
27:36
Speaker 3: he's just a big dude too. This is there's no
27:38
Speaker 3: like analytics for that. But I don't know he looks
27:41
Speaker 3: I mean, he's just like whatever. He looks like Like
27:43
Speaker 3: he looks like yeah, like and uh, you know, his attitude,
27:49
Speaker 3: his story. I think he does feel really comfortable in
27:54
Speaker 3: this organization. You know, his eyes were opened when he
27:58
Speaker 3: went to the Red Sox lash year, and the Cubs
28:01
Speaker 3: built upon that of just kind of the information and
28:04
Speaker 3: what he can do on the mound. I think all
28:08
Speaker 3: that stuff is not easily dismissed. But yeah, if some
28:12
Speaker 3: team sees Brad Keller and like makes some deal that
28:17
Speaker 3: the Cubs don't like, they're just gonna let him walk.
28:19
Speaker 3: I mean that's just how they operate.
28:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I wouldn't completely rule out like a
28:24
Speaker 1: clay Home situation where he tries to convert back to
28:27
Speaker 1: a starter. That's yes, I wouldn't rule out he's one
28:33
Speaker 1: of the guys. I wouldn't rule them out on I
28:35
Speaker 1: could see them finding a way to keep him if
28:39
Speaker 1: they can come to a reasonable deal. I think this
28:42
Speaker 1: is important to say because of the way the season ended,
28:45
Speaker 1: a lot of people are going to be like, how
28:46
Speaker 1: do does this offense score runs? How do they do things?
28:50
Speaker 1: How do they win in the postseason? What happened to
28:53
Speaker 1: the offense down the stretch? All fair questions. But I
28:58
Speaker 1: think when I watched the playoffs and think back on
29:00
Speaker 1: the playoffs, and I think back to conversations with Craig
29:03
Speaker 1: Council about what he needed from his team to advance,
29:06
Speaker 1: it's the pitching. Get more pitching, invest in pitching. We
29:11
Speaker 1: don't know what's going to happen to show to Managa,
29:13
Speaker 1: complicated option optionality there. I think you'll write about that
29:18
Speaker 1: more in the coming days.
29:21
Speaker 2: Like that.
29:22
Speaker 1: Really it's Kate Horton and Justin Steele coming back, that'll
29:25
Speaker 1: be huge. You know, Jamison Tyne Matthew Boyd both under
29:31
Speaker 1: contract for next season. That's all important stuff. We don't
29:36
Speaker 1: know what will happen to Colin Ray. But I think
29:40
Speaker 1: when you talk about how to build a really good
29:42
Speaker 1: playoff team and watch playoff baseball, you just need to
29:46
Speaker 1: do enough on offense. The clubs didn't get the big
29:48
Speaker 1: hit on whatever night that was Saturday night. They they
29:53
Speaker 1: also didn't pitch well enough in Game one and two
29:56
Speaker 1: and that's a huge reason why they're not advancing. They
29:59
Speaker 1: need to stock up on pitching. And they do it
30:02
Speaker 1: every they talk about it every year. But depth, depth, depth,
30:06
Speaker 1: and I'd like to see another I'd.
30:07
Speaker 2: Like to see it.
30:08
Speaker 1: A swing and misarm in the rotation showed a was
30:12
Speaker 1: kind of that guy in his first year. The strikeouts
30:14
Speaker 1: went down, velocity, stuff kind of ticked down in general.
30:19
Speaker 1: That's that's tough to deal with.
30:21
Speaker 2: I think. I think that should that's gonna end up
30:23
Speaker 2: being what we talk about the You know, it.
30:26
Speaker 1: Feels like every year we will get a better idea
30:28
Speaker 1: at the GM meetings in a couple of weeks. But
30:30
Speaker 1: every year you and I like end up zero in
30:33
Speaker 1: and zeroing in on something because we get a little
30:36
Speaker 1: tidbit of information. We try and figure things out. And
30:39
Speaker 1: this is what it like. I have a feeling this
30:42
Speaker 1: is what it is. Upgrade the pitching. Work your butt
30:45
Speaker 1: off to find as much pitching as possible, whether that's trades,
30:48
Speaker 1: whether that's free agency. I think that's the that's the path.
30:51
Speaker 1: That's the path to get to the playoffs again and
30:55
Speaker 1: go deep into the playoffs. I don't think there's any
30:59
Speaker 1: one recipe I think it's solving for wins, is what
31:03
Speaker 1: Craig Council or Jed Hoyer or Carter Hawkins would tell us.
31:07
Speaker 2: But I liked that path.
31:08
Speaker 1: I like, I think you you really solidify your pitching,
31:12
Speaker 1: you get two of your big arms back healthy. I
31:15
Speaker 1: think there's a pathway for the Cubs to be really good.
31:19
Speaker 1: Then we'll have questions and figure out and think about
31:22
Speaker 1: how do you kind of solidify the offense.
31:25
Speaker 2: But I think you.
31:25
Speaker 1: Can really have strong pitching that it wasn't bad pitching,
31:29
Speaker 1: but clearly it was a weakness and they lost some
31:31
Speaker 1: depth there, especially at the end with Kate Horton going down.
31:34
Speaker 1: They lost a big, impactful arm. But I think that's
31:37
Speaker 1: that's such a huge way. Like I just watched them.
31:39
Speaker 1: I just watched it in general, like and it isn't
31:41
Speaker 1: even teams that had like we're built on pitching, but
31:44
Speaker 1: they're pitching is stepping up in the postseason.
31:46
Speaker 2: Just find a way to scratch across a couple runs.
31:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, does any I'm trying to think of the most
31:54
Speaker 3: optimistic Cubs fan out there, do you think they had
31:56
Speaker 3: any chance to beat the Dodgers in the seven game
31:58
Speaker 3: series after expending so much of their pitching to win
32:04
Speaker 3: a wild card round in this scenario, winning a game
32:09
Speaker 3: five on the road then having a fly to Dodger Stadium,
32:15
Speaker 3: pitching in that environment just don't see that happening. I
32:21
Speaker 3: also think when you look at this farm system, don't
32:26
Speaker 3: see a lot of arms that are gonna be you're
32:31
Speaker 3: knocking the door down here anytime soon. And h and
32:37
Speaker 3: even that guy like was a guy the Cubs drafted,
32:40
Speaker 3: if I'm remembering correctly, like because he had what Tommy
32:43
Speaker 3: John or some sort of injury checker. There was a
32:46
Speaker 3: lot of load management talk this year. And even the
32:51
Speaker 3: best pitching prospects they get hurt too. And so in
32:57
Speaker 3: talking to Justin Steele, I mean, his hope is that
33:01
Speaker 3: it's actually right around now he should be or sorry,
33:05
Speaker 3: maybe another week or so. The idea of beginning to
33:09
Speaker 3: play catch. He may not have a fully normal, full
33:16
Speaker 3: strength spring training, just because that would imply he's like
33:19
Speaker 3: automatically locked in for the opening day rotation. But the
33:23
Speaker 3: hope is that he won't be too far from that
33:26
Speaker 3: that he would be doing a he would have a
33:34
Speaker 3: robust spring training schedule aiming for around opening day. Maybe
33:44
Speaker 3: maybe that's a couple of weeks after, maybe there's a
33:47
Speaker 3: setback that changes everything. Maybe the Cubs once again are
33:51
Speaker 3: just like cautious and conservative and throw out let's just
33:56
Speaker 3: throw out May first.
33:57
Speaker 2: Whatever.
33:57
Speaker 3: But the idea is that he should be an impactful
34:01
Speaker 3: part of next year's team after his elbow surgery. And
34:09
Speaker 3: the feedback that he's gotten is that whereas when he
34:12
Speaker 3: had Tommy John and the Miners, that was almost like
34:15
Speaker 3: relearning his arm. Some of the motions that this procedure,
34:21
Speaker 3: by all indications, is something that it should feel a
34:24
Speaker 3: lot more natural just because of the way this procedure works.
34:33
Speaker 3: So we'll see that. I mean, those are sort of
34:36
Speaker 3: internal answers that were not available against the Brewers. But
34:40
Speaker 3: I'm with you, like, can Matthew Boyd replicate this? Do
34:44
Speaker 3: you trust basically locking in three more seasons of Shoda
34:53
Speaker 3: just all around? I think you just go for more pitching,
34:58
Speaker 3: and maybe that that's how some of the bullpen issues
35:02
Speaker 3: are solved, that they're spillover, that they just get too
35:05
Speaker 3: many starting pitchers and you have a Colin Ray, you
35:09
Speaker 3: use out getters. You kind of take the innings puzzle
35:12
Speaker 3: philosophy to another level next.
35:15
Speaker 1: Year, And I should give Colin Ray some credit. Really
35:21
Speaker 1: good end of the season, and you know he pitched
35:23
Speaker 1: well in the postseason.
35:24
Speaker 2: He gave up that solo home run.
35:27
Speaker 1: I may have jinxed him because I think I said
35:29
Speaker 1: to you after he got out before that solo home
35:32
Speaker 1: run to Vaughan, I was like, how do you take
35:34
Speaker 1: Colin Ray out of this game? And then he gave
35:36
Speaker 1: up that three to two.
35:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, he'd be a great bench coach. Maybe if Ryan
35:41
Speaker 3: Flair he gets some manager's job, you could apply to
35:45
Speaker 3: be counsels bench coach.
35:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh yeah, we'll we'll we'll be talking about this
35:51
Speaker 1: a lot. This is, you know, our focus for the
35:54
Speaker 1: next few months. How they fill out this roster. There's
35:57
Speaker 1: a lot, there's a lot of questions facing this roster.
36:02
Speaker 1: Have to rebuild a bullpen, how do you add to
36:05
Speaker 1: the pitching staff, and then how do you like if
36:07
Speaker 1: you're replacing Kyle Tucker, how do.
36:09
Speaker 2: You do that?
36:10
Speaker 1: Just kind of what we will be talking about over
36:13
Speaker 1: and over again and hopefully getting good information over the
36:17
Speaker 1: coming weeks to kind of fill out that puzzle and
36:22
Speaker 1: understand the direction the Cubs want to go. Thanks so
36:25
Speaker 1: much for listening everyone. This is Northside territory, Foul Territory
36:28
Speaker 1: Networks Cubs podcast. Make sure to rate, review, and subscribe.
36:31
Speaker 1: Subscribe to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to The Athletic,
36:34
Speaker 1: where Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs.
36:37
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you guys listening throughout the season and
36:40
Speaker 1: throughout the playoffs. We will be doing this all off
36:42
Speaker 1: season long. Make sure to read our work. We'll be
36:46
Speaker 1: on top of it all. Thanks for listening. Everyone, take care.
37:04
Speaker 2: Anything I do, they live