Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: The Ted Bundy Mystery That Still Haunts People

Transcript

Killer Thriller: The Ted Bundy Mystery That Still Haunts People · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Robock and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Long before today's wave of true crime documentaries and dramatizations,
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: one TV movie terrified America by bringing the story of
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: serial killer Ted Bundy into millions of living rooms. The
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Deliberate Stranger aired on NBC in nineteen eighty six and
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: starred Mark Harmon. The two part mini series follows Bundy's murders, manipulations, escapes,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: and eventual capture, helping turn him into one of the
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: first true crime figures to become a national media obsession.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, so for those.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Who might not be as familiar with Ted Bundy, he
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: is one of the most notorious serial killers in American history,
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: and he admitted to murdering over thirty women, and they
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: do believe that it was more in the hundreds. One
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: of the ways that he was so disturbing is he
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: was known as being very charming, very articulate. He predominantly
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: approached women on college campuses and sometimes he would act
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: as though he was injured and need a little bit
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: of help, or he would ask for their assistance with
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: something and then he brutally, brutally raped and murdered these women.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Today we're joined by Emmy winning actress Bonnie Bartlett, who
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: played Bundy's mother, Louise, a woman forced to confront the
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: unimaginable truth about her own son. Bonnie, Welcome to Killer Thriller.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: Oh, thank you for having me.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: I know there are a million things that we could
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: talk to you about because you have such a phenomenal career,
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: and this one takes us back quite a ways.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: But I am really.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Excited to talk to you about the Deliberate Stranger. And
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: you know, this came out before a lot of people
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: even fully understood who Ted Bundy was. So did it
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: feel shocking at the time to make a movie about
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: someone that was so recent and so infamous.
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: I didn't feel shocking, No, not at all. I thought
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: it was a good idea and he was great.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: Mark was. I was surprised that Mark at Yes, Oh
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: well he did.
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: I really was, because I knew him from say, elsewhere,
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: but he didn't you know, he didn't show a lot
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: of promises, but I could.
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: Think that on this he was just terrific. It was
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: like he really got into the character and stayed there scary.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, that was one of the things.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: You know, he was so everyone considered Ted to be
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: so you know, charming and Mark certainly his work in
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: this that is what is so eerie about it. He's
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: just so charming and so uh. I mean, I think
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: it just really is part of what upsets everyone so much.
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, he he was kind of a covered guy
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: when I knew him, and saying elsewhere, I would call
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: him covered.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, Yeah.
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: Out there he was covered.
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: And so then you know, of course he's gone on
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: to do that great series and he's done everything.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Right right, yes on n cis Yes, the first year. Yeah,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: so the you know, the thing about Ted is that
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: he he pray. I mean, there's a lot that's that's
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: to say about Ted money. But I think what was
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: so terrifying, as we said, is that he seemed so normal.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: And do you think for you at the time, do you.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Did you fully grasp how calculated and predatory he was,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Like do you remember being alive at that time and
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: how you felt about the actual case.
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: It was something that I watched and you know, I
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: looked for and it was. It was incredibly scary. Yeah, incredible,
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: And because he was always at a university and young
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: girls and it was.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: It's terrifying. You know.
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: I don't think it would happen today, but I don't know.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: I mean, in a different way it might happen, but
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: not that way.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah. When they asked me to play the mother, and so.
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: For I researched it, you know, and so I came
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: in already to play a woman who was a little
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: demented because she had a relationship with him that was
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: not good. And I thought it was important. But they
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: didn't want me to do it in the movie. They said, no, no, no,
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: don't go near that.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, Really.
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: It was too soon.
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: I mean, it wasn't too soon for me, but it
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: was too soon for them to deal with that kind
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: of relationship in a film, do you know.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, you're kidding. So they weren't aware of the.
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: Well, I was very aware of it, and because I
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: had researched it and I knew a lot about it,
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: and I was prepared to play a complicated woman. And
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: they said no, no, no, you mustn't do that. Just
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: a loving mother, Just play a sweet, loving mother.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: So what do you mean about the kind of demented
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: relationship they had? I think, what do you mean specifically
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: that you researched it found out it was.
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: I mean, she definitely it was some kind of abuse.
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: It was a definitely kind of abuse because she she
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: permitted it, she went along with it. She may have
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: even instigated it. We don't know that, you know what
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: I mean?
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I sure do.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: I wanted to say that. They said, no, Oh my.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Gosh, that must have been wildly frustrating.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: Well, that happened to be a lot Iisenhower.
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: I played Maimy, and of course everybody in the world
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: knew that Amy drank all right, right.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: They said, no, no, no, you mustn't play any of that.
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: No, no, no, The Isena Eisenhower family does not want
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: you to portray her drinking. Wow, just a nice lady.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: They don't want complications. Right.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: That's so interesting because I do think you know it's
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: in watching this today and this this what we would
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: call this would be be considered a movie of the
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: week right at the time, and so you know, there
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: are some things that you know in some way, they're
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: far less explicit than things that we do today. But
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: also there's something almost more melodramatic. So it's so interesting
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: that they don't want to Actually they didn't want to
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: talk about the real nitty grit of things.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: That's right, No, they didn't.
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: They were ready to get into you know, into that
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: kind of thing.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Yet oh wow, wow, Yeah, that's so unreal.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: Allowed to do that.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Wow wow.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: So this whole you know, uh, there's something that's happening
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: right now. I feel like this just happened in October
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: that you know, uh, Ted Bundy was known as doing
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of pretending to be injured. He would
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: wear fake casts and ask women to help him before
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: abducting him. And apparently there is someone that is doing
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: that again now as recently as in the fall. But
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: the the you know, the ironic part of this is that,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: well it's not ironic. The interesting part of this is
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: that today this woman went on TikTok and told people
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: that there was a man that was doing this, and
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: then she sort of all of these other women came
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: out out and said he tried to do the same
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: thing to me.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So it's really interesting.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, how far we've come, but that maybe you know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: when you're saying I don't think.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: It would happen today. It's is it? Do you think
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: it's because we have so much information and so much
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: access to everyone?
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: Or probably probably Yeah, everybody's there before you are.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: I mean right, I feel fast and so it's just
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: boom boom boom, and you know we know everything. Yeah,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: you think we know everything?
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Well, right, fair, Yeah, we think we know.
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: So.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I think that.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: One of the reasons that the reasons that you know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Ted Bundy terrified at people so much is because he
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: didn't fit that.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Stereotype of a serial killer. And I think that's a.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: Lovely boy that you would welcome into your home. That's
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: what he was, right.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: I heard someone one of the I think it was
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: one of the people that he was involved in politics,
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: who said something like, you know, he was the kind
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: of guy that you would want your sister to marry.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: That's right, that's true.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: That is just like that most terrifying thing ever, right, right,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: So you played Louise Bundy obviously his his mom, and
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: she stood by Ted for years even after the evidence
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: just mounted and mounted against him. As the mother yourself,
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: could you emotionally understand Hallowise kept defending him.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: That's a tough question.
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: I've never been put in that position, and I I
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: must say, if if the evidence was out there so much,
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: I would have retreated completely. I just would have retreated.
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: But I couldn't have defended the evidence was too much unless, as.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: I say, but.
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: She's not me, she's I don't know what she was,
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: but she was off right off the radar.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: She was.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: She didn't write.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: Boundaries, you know. She clearly had no boundaries.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Right right like your can't.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: She's not operating from a no no the same place.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Did the set feel emotionally heavy knowing that many victims'
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: families were still alive and grieving while you were making it.
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: I can't imagine wanting to be part of it. So
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: I think that they must have been very protected, because
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: it wouldn't be right to put them out there, I
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: don't think.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: But did they Did they put them all out there?
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Many of the families had to. They testified, and they
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: were in the courtroom and things. But I don't know
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: what their feelings were about if they or if they
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: ever you know, commented on the actual miniserious because he
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: hadn't been executed yet by the time the miniseries came out.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: He was still on death row.
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's a tough one because I'm certainly against that,
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: and you know, I'm against killing him, right, what do
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: you do?
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: You just have to keep him in chains or something.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Right, Well? That was also another part of the crazy
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: part of this.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Is that he escaped custody twice, which I mean, this
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: really sounds almost unbelievable today, But did those escapes make
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: it feel more frightening to the public at the time, Like,
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: do you remember that?
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: I can't remember how did he escape?
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: The first time he jumped out a window when he
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: was in like the court building, and then another time
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: he actually escaped from prison itself.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: He must have had help, you see, he could he
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: could charm people. He could convince them that he was
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: pure and sweet.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: Right, those you know shots of Mark with his tennis
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: racket and you know, skipping around.
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and Mark did it beautifully because he was
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: able to, you know, get into that thinking that that
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: kind of thing, and he did a beautiful job.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: It's so crazy, you know, looking back since doing this podcast,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: there are a lot of there are some things that
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: kind of recur no matter what the cases we're talking about,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: And I feel like one of those things is that
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: the flaws in our system, in both our legal system
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: and in you know, police research and all those sorts
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: of things, and it just kind of really reveals how
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: we are all humans, and there is human error. People
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: don't escape as much today, let's put it that way.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So I feel like there's something.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: That's the whole point. If he were.
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: A burly, scary looking guy, probably somebody would have shown
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: him right now.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: But he's not.
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: So it's hard, too hard to shoot. You don't want
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: to kill a perfectly nice looking, lovely speaking young man.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: Right, I mean even his longtime girlfriend Elizabeth Kendall, she
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: struggled for years to believe whether or not he was guilty,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: which just seems like so outrageous, but it speaks to
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: how how influential and kind of diabolically charming he was.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: That's something she never believed.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Unuh, yeah, well she really struggled with it.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: I think in the end she might have, but she
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: also supported him for a very long time.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: Wow, it was Claire.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So there were all kinds of you. You
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: spoke by this a little bit, but there there are
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of rumors and confusion surrounding Ted
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Bundy's upbringing, including questions about who his biological father was
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: and that he grew up believing his mother was his sister.
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: There have been a lot of people that that have
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: grown up believing their mother with his sister.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: I've seen that a lot.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: This is the this whole id I mean, we could
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: just do a whole other many episodes about this.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: The un you know, the sort of home for unwed mothers. Uh,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: there's sort.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Of an extreme, more extreme name for it, which is
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: really awful, where women who have to have children and
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: either the father is not around or in Ted's case,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: I think they were saying he might have been at war,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: he was a veteran and but either way, the women
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: are just blamed and they have to be kind of
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: sequestered away, and you know, it's like shameful.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: To be having this child out of wedlock. And I
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: think that what was kind of going on at the time.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: I believe that.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, true crime is now everywhere, but
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty six, this kind of dramatization felt much
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: newer and more unsettling. And did it feel at the
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: time like people were uncomfortable even talking openly about crimes
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: like this.
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: No, never, No, because I mean I can remember some
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: of the old Hollywood stories.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: Some girl got killed with a soda bottle or something.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: I remember that.
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: So there were a lot of things like that that
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: were out there. There were very famous old stories, but
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: it was mostly with actors Hollywood people.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, a lot of that, a.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Lot of that stories, and of course I read them all.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: And it was fascinated by all that because it presented
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: a picture of Hollywood that was very scary. That was
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: long ago, even before me and so and I'm ninety seven.
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: So but this kind of thing, Yeah, it was quite
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: quite believable. I mean, we knew it was there.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: We knew it.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: Did people you know, and this was happening in real time?
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Did do you think did women genuinely move through the
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: world differently because of the fear of Bundy and others
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: perhaps like him.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: No, I don't think so.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: You don't think so.
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: I mean parents were always very protective of their children,
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: most parents, and they you know, so that they were
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: very protective. But I don't think that young women changed
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: their behavior because of it.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: So it's not like suddenly people were, you know, not
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: walking alone in the.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: Well, wow, I don't think so.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Wow, It's like we're just immune or something. I mean,
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I remember when I was growing up. It was the
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: son of Sam and I grew up on Long Island,
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: and I remember that moment of going.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Wait a second, is he could he be here? You know,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: this kind of like terrible. There was like a moment.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Of oh my god, this is terrifying, and then talking
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: to my parents and them saying, you know, no, this
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: is you know, not happening. We live on Long Island,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: we don't like but them having to like, you know,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: tell me, you know, with with their own amount of certainty,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: I suppose that he wasn't going to be you know,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: coming through my window. I it was really scary, it was.
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: I didn't have any of that. But you were right
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: there near where he was, right.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I mean it was close enough. Yes, Yeah,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: that's probably why. Yeah, so many women in the seventies were,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: you know, they were just starting to experience more independence,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: like living alone and traveling and going to college. Do
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: you think that Bundy prayed on that cultural moment in
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: a really specific way?
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: Oh gosh, I don't.
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I was very careless. I was from
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: the Midwest. I was from a small town. And then
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: when I went to New York and I was on
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: a soap opera to lead that, I was very careless.
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: I wrote a book.
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: I have a book that I wrote when I was
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: about ninety and I did I outlined some of the
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: things that happened because I was very careless.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: Didn't my doors, things like that, And.
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: I had a feeling of probably wrongly, but I mean
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: I had a feel of complete independence and complete freedom,
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: and I was fearless.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: I was fearless.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's why you've had an amazing life and career.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: That's probably also partly what one like your spirit that
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: made you become an artist in the first place, but
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: also you know, being able to have that sort of
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: creativity and that spirit like it just does I suppose
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: lend itself to more freedom.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: Well, I was an actress for this time.
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: I could remember, Yeah, my father had been an actor,
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: and I just it's what I.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Was so yeah, I mean, looking back now, do you
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: think does it surprise you that Ted is still one
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: of the most talked about killers in American history.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is nearly fifty years later.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: It doesn't surprise me because he was so.
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: The last person one of the you would never suspect
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: him Indian series, right, and as you would, and Mark
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: playing the part was able to do that. He was
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: the all American football player, you know, nice, hate family,
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: all that stuff. So it would be a shock, right, indeed,
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: indeed a major shock, right, he were like that.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: So that that was good casting.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole cast, all of you, everybody all.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: It's a really strong, strong cast, so many well known
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: character actors in that serious like chalk full of very
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: familiar faces, you know, all of you just continuing to
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: go on to very big careers.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: This has been such a pleasure.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: I hope that, you know, I'll do another podcast where
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: I get to talk to you about the other roles
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: that you've played that I'm so enamored with. But I
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: really appreciate you taking this time to talk with me today, Bonnie,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: your your lovely well.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much and I was pleased to do it.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: Good luck to you.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: With everything great. Thank you so much, Bonnie,