Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #139: Nature's Rx: Practical Strategies to Reduce Anxiety, Boost Energy & Help Heal Mental Illness

Transcript

Episode #139: Nature's Rx: Practical Strategies to Reduce Anxiety, Boost Energy & Help Heal Mental Illness · Beyond Labels Premium

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Rather than institutionalizing people, putting mentally unstable people on farms, they can do a lot of things.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: And the beauty of a farm, everybody, is that you know the cows are always happy to see me.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: The pigs are always happy to see me.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: And a tomato, a tomato plant, you know, it never makes fun of you or says you have big ears or a or a crooked nose or anything.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: And in a time of um, right now, the average middle schooler spends seven to ten hours a day on screen time.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Welcome everyone to another Beyond Labels podcast with yours truly, Joel Salatin, the farmer, and Dr.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough, our favorite researcher.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: We have received numerous uh requests recently to deal with mental health.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: And of course, if you're watching the news lately, you know that especially uh adolescent and youth uh mental health is a big issue.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: I actually have a niece who and a niece and a nephew who are in this field, and uh I just actually had, you know, uh was we were with family during Easter, and so I was able to catch up with them about where they are, and um, and it it it it it's just an explosion of all sorts of things.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: And um I'm reminded, uh we're we live near Stanton, and we used to have the uh one of the state mental institutions, Western State Hospital, uh here for the for the indigent mentally uh ill.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: And um and they used to raise all their own food.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: They had the Western State Farm.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: They had a big dairy barn, and they raised all their own food.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: And um if you talk to the old clinicians there, they will tell you that the farm work was actually more valuable to folks than almost anything they could do.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And in my own experience, um being on therapy farms, I've been in I've been in mental therapy farms.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: I I call them therapy farms just for uh sake of discussion.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh in Europe, this is this is widely done.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh rather than institutionalizing people, putting uh mental mentally uh uh unstable people on farms, they can do a lot of things.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: And the beauty of a farm, everybody, is that you know the cows are always happy to see me.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Um the you know, the the the pigs are always happy to see me.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and and a tomato, a tomato plant, you know, it never makes fun of you or says you have big ears or a or a crooked nose or anything.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: And and in a time of um of of really uh you know with social media.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I listened to a broadcast this this week on the the the whole you know social media, TikTok, it's all been in the news, and and the devastation that this social media stuff does.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh on this um on this broadcast, Cena, uh the research the the researcher, the guy that was um in charge said that um right now the average middle schooler, so we're talking about you know uh whatever, 12 years old to 14, the average middle schooler spends seven to ten hours a day on screen time.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: Most of that is you know social media time.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: And and so, you know, you you you can almost daily in the news hear about mental illness, mental, mental issues.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: And um and so we're gonna we're gonna tackle this a little bit.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh Cena has some stuff, I have some stuff uh that I'll bring in as we go, but um but uh this is a I mean if you if you have a child that's going through some of this, or if you are, um it's it's devastating.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: And um and so we're we're gonna treat this seriously, but there's also something about levity, laughter, and and and and joy uh that that is powerful.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: So if we laugh a little or make we're not we're not making we're not making a joke about mental and ill, it's real.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: We understand it, we get it, but we also have uh Cena and I, I I think Cena, you correct me if I'm wrong.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: We we both share a great appreciation for what uh laughter, humor, joy, gratitude, cultivating smiles can do for us.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: And so, with that kind of intro, uh Cena, uh dig into this a little bit from your perspective.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: And to piggyback on that, laughter truly is medicine.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: Like we know from the scientific literature that laughter can actually increase natural killer cells, right?
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Those are the cells that go around and eat up cancer cells and dead or weak cells, right?
5:15
SPEAKER_01: So they heal the body.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, and we know that the harder you laugh, the more of those natural killer cells you you produce.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: And you can actually boost your mood just from laughing.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: You can change your microbiome just from laughing.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, I think more laughter.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm calling for, I'm challenging Joel to have more laughter in every podcast moving forward, right?
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Then the podcast itself will become a treatment for mental illness.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: Seriously.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, so this is uh mental illness is um a topic that's near and dear to my heart.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: We've had some of this in our extended family.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, um, I have suffered from uh chronic anxiety, right?
6:00
SPEAKER_01: Chronically feeling overwhelmed, having a dysregulated nervous system, like a lot of people who I know, particularly a lot of other moms that I hang out with.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: It's very common to have a dysregulated nervous system.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: So this will not be our standalone podcast on mental health.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, I see that we'll be doing a lot more of these podcasts.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, and if people want us to do more, then email us, right?
6:26
SPEAKER_01: We love getting your emails.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Email us and let us know.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: Do you want us to talk about what is a dysregulated nervous system?
6:33
SPEAKER_01: How do you regulate the nervous system?
6:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, all of that good stuff.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: So let us know.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: We're here, we're here for you guys.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: So, in terms of horticultural therapy, this interests me because we know that nature heals, right?
6:50
SPEAKER_01: There's lots of studies showing that nature itself can heal the body, mind, and the spirit.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to dive a little bit into horticultural therapy because there's some new studies that have come out.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think that this is a fantastic approach, especially for many of our listeners who are trying to maybe um get a homestead up and running, or just starting to grow more of their own food, or trying to get their kids involved with the food supply.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: A type of horticultural therapy is a good starting point.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's first differentiate between horticultural therapy and what we call passive appreciation of nature.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they're different categories.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: So passive appreciation of nature is what we think of when we like do a leisurely stroll in a forest, right?
7:41
SPEAKER_01: Or we do forest bathing where we're walking through the forest and we're using our senses to observe what we're seeing, what we're smelling, tasting, hearing, touching in the forest.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: And this is a state of mindfulness where you're trying to get yourself in the present moment.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we call that passive appreciation of nature.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and when I say we, I mean scientists.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: Now, on the flip side of that is what we term horticultural therapy.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: This is also interacting with nature in different ways.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: It could be, you know, for instance, active gardening.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: But the purpose here is goal-oriented.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to keep saying that throughout the podcast because I think this is a big contributing factor to why horticultural therapy is so powerful, right?
8:34
SPEAKER_01: It's goal-oriented.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: Now, I want to talk a little bit about this, what it means, what are the benefits.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: And then, Joel, at the end, I want to actually provide a practical strategy for anybody who may be experiencing overwhelm or anxiety of how they can get some of these benefits we're going to talk about by just implementing a simple approach.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: So, first, let's start out with why should you even care about horticultural therapy or even just nature therapy in general?
9:05
SPEAKER_01: There are many, many studies at this point that have said that have concluded that this nature therapy helps with mental illness.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: For instance, it can help restore cognitive ability, um, even amongst people, uh patients with dementia.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, it can decrease irritability, um, decrease what they call um behavioral issues or inappropriate behaviors, even amongst um patients who have dementia.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: It has been shown to help uh veterans heal from PTSD.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: It has been shown to help with mood disorders, numerous types of mood disorders in elevating the moods, um, including uh depression, uh, including mania.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: It has been shown to decrease the number of falls in the elderly, so decrease the amount of physical limitations and injury.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: It's been shown to improve the health of children who have sensory issues.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: It's been shown to increase attention span, decrease fatigue, decrease anxiety, decrease stress, both short and long term, decrease your perception of pain.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: And actually, this type of nature therapy has been shown to decrease the need for medications, including antipsychotics.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's also been shown to do things like improve your sleep, right?
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Improve circadian rhythm.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Um and and I would say heal, help you heal from chronic and autoimmune conditions.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so a huge variety of health conditions and ailments that can be modulated or even in some cases healed just from nature.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: So what I find fascinating is this is not a recent therapy.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: So this horticultural therapy, even though we have all these studies on it now, it's actually not recent.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's evidence of using nature to calm the nervous system all the way back to 2000 BC in Mesopotamia.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: In 500 BC, they saw they showed that the Persians actually began creating gardens to please the senses, right?
11:25
SPEAKER_01: In S in other words, that means to calm the nervous system.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: And they did this by combining beauty, fragrance, obviously from the smells of like herbs and flowers and such, and music, right?
11:37
SPEAKER_01: And they got the music from flowing water.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, isn't that beautiful?
11:41
SPEAKER_01: So they created like these areas, like it's like an oasis, right?
11:46
SPEAKER_01: This would be like um like a healing center that they created uh for their culture.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: In America, it was actually Dr.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Benjamin Rush who first understood the importance of a garden setting, right?
12:02
SPEAKER_01: You may have heard of him.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he was one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: We call him the father of American psychiatry, right?
12:11
SPEAKER_01: So he published a book in 1812.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: It was called Medical Inquiries and Observations Upon Diseases of the Mind.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: So it's for mental health.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: And he said that digging in the garden, that was his quote, digging in the garden was an activity that helped male patients recover from mania.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: And the male patients who did not dig in the garden, they did not recover.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Right?
12:34
SPEAKER_01: So then in the US, it took a little bit of time for this horticultural therapy idea to gain traction.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: It really took hold after World War I when so many veterans were coming back from fighting on the war and they had wounds that they needed to heal and like PTSD, for instance.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: And they used horticulture as a therapy, and it were so successful that it became accepted as a profession.
13:00
unknown: Okay.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: And then in 1959, that was when the first U.S.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: Medical Center added a greenhouse, right?
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine that?
13:06
SPEAKER_01: There's a medical center.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: It was in New York, New York University Medical Center.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, uh, well, actually, it was the Rusk Institute of Rehab Medicine, and it's associated with the New York University Medical Center.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: They were the first ones to add a greenhouse to the rehab unit, and that was in 1959.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: And then by 1972, Kansas State University teamed up with the Meninger Foundation, and they started to provide training to undergrads, which developed into the first horticultural therapy curriculum.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and now there's a whole range of therapies, you're right, you know, a lot of them, you know, forest bathing to design therapy gardens and whatnot.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: It's it's amazing.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: One thing that I find interesting, because I was like, why is this happening, right?
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, why is nature having such a profound effect on healing?
13:56
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things, one of the theories that's been proposed is that for most of our life, we've evolved in a natural environment, right, with nature all around us, right?
14:07
SPEAKER_01: This is more of a recent phenomenon that we have what's what's called manscapes around us.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: So there's these scientists who actually proposed that we actually have a higher um uh attentional response to environmental cues like trees and gardenscapes that would actually provide safety to us.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: So gardenscapes that have water in them or that have plants that you can eat, right?
14:36
SPEAKER_01: So this is a clue as to if you want to use nature to heal you, what kind of plants and what kind of environment do you need to create?
14:45
SPEAKER_01: It's usually ones that would are edible, so edible plants and a source of water.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: And we think this is something that's hardwired in our biology, that when you see those triggers, um, they're positive triggers, right?
15:00
SPEAKER_01: These are triggers that are going to elicit a sense of safety.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you and I have talked about this before that one way to calm down the nervous system is to provide a felt sense of safety.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And so I think part of the way nature is working to help with these mental um illness situations and particularly stress is it will calm down the nervous system because having food and water is one of the basic needs for a human, right?
15:28
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: So what I think, and before I want to go into stress in more detail, but first I want to highlight just a couple of um things that I found interesting as I was looking through different types of studies.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: So one is you don't actually have to be in nature to receive the benefits of nature.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: All right, this is like this is pretty cool.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: You can actually see pictures and hear sounds of nature according to studies and receive benefits.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: So there was one study, this is a randomized controlled study.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: And what they did was there were patients undergoing um bronchoscopy, which if you've ever undergone that, it can be quite painful, right?
16:13
SPEAKER_01: They insert a tube through your nose or your mouth down into your lungs, right, to assess the condition of your lungs and your throat.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: So what they did was they had some patients where they showed them pictures of nature and they played nature sounds.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: And then the other group didn't have that.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: In the group that played the nature sounds and they and they saw pictures, they actually had a decrease in pain.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: It was a significant decrease in pain where they required less pain medication.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: It was so significant that the author suggested that a non-intrusive intervention during these procedures that are often painful may be the nature that it can maybe replace the pharmacological alternative.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Like that's pretty powerful, right?
17:04
SPEAKER_01: And that's just from seeing the picture and hearing the sound.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: So this goes to the effect of what if you're in an office, right?
17:10
SPEAKER_01: What if you spend most of your time in an office surrounded by four walls, you're not around nature?
17:16
SPEAKER_01: One thing you can do is put pictures up of nature all around you.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Your screensaver on your computer, on your phone could be a picture of nature.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: You can get one of those little white noisemakers that has nature sounds playing as like a meditative, or just play the nature sounds on your computer, you know, like through YouTube or whatnot.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, you can bring a plant if you're allowed to do that.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: You can bring plants in into your area, um, you know, to actually bring nature into your office.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: So I as we're going through this, I don't want people to think, oh, well, I have to move to a homestead in order to have benefits from this.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: That's not the case.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: You can adapt your current environment.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: You bring them into your house, right?
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Start an herb garden on your windowsill or in your kitchen on your on your dining room table.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: Just start bringing plants.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, you and I both love aloe vera, right?
18:07
SPEAKER_01: Our aloe plants.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: That plant is so hard to kill, right?
18:11
SPEAKER_01: So if you don't have a green thumb, get an aloe vera plant and stick it in in every bedroom that you have.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: And that actually will give you medicinal properties too.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: So you can do these types of easy fixes to your environment.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Another thing is spend more time in the sun.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Studies have shown that when patients in hospitals had a window and the sun was allowed to come through the window, they actually perceived less stress, they needed, and they needed less medications, and it would shorten their stay, even following surgery, from a thyroidectomy, an appendectomy, or a hemorrhageomy.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: So less pain medicine, less anxiety, less fatigue, and shorter stay in the hospital just from having sunlight coming into the hospital room.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is remarkable.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: There's an Alzheimer's study that showed that it was an existing dementia facility and they studied 34 males who had Alzheimer's.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: And what they did was they studied them for a year.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: During that 12-month period, they added a wander garden, is what they call it, right?
19:23
SPEAKER_01: And the patients would go into the garden.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: So they studied them before the garden was implemented and afterward.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: And what they saw was that these Alzheimer's patients needed less medication.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: There were less incidents reported of agitated behavior, and less inappropriate behavior, improved mood, and an improved quality of life amongst these patients with dementia.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: So it's it seems to be that even the most difficult cases of mental illness can benefit from nature, right?
20:01
SPEAKER_01: In some in some capacity.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: Now, what I thought was kind of cool, and I'll let you jump in too.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to just give an example of one of these horticultural therapy programs.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: And then if we can go into the stress response, right?
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Because this is applicable to pretty much everybody.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: So I found this study talking about horticultural therapy and how patients underwent this eight-session program.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: And these were all patients who had mental illnesses.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: At the end of the eight weeks, they all had a reduction in stress, a reduction in anxiety, an increase in their mental well-being, and an increase in sense of meaningfulness.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: So sense of purpose in their life.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: And I found this program to be fascinating because as I was reading it, I thought, you know, this would be fabulous to implement this program in schools, right?
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Teach this to our children and give them this sense of purpose, sense of belonging, and tool that they can use to decrease stress and anxiety as they grow older, especially into the teenage and early adulthood.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: So I'm actually going to implement this program myself with my kids.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: And interestingly, you know, Joel, just recently, I was in Ohio giving a talk to an Amish community.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: And I actually was under the assumption that all Amish communities knew how to farm, like for the most part, that they had gardens and they knew how to farm and they, you know, they ate from the land and whatnot.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: So I'm starting to talk to them as though, oh, you guys are these master gardeners, and this is what I do, you know, but you know more than me.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: And they just start laughing and they're like, no, like we live up here in Ohio, which was like industry capital, you know, the United States.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: And most of them, the farming skills, the gardening, Gardening skills were lost in their generation.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: It was not passed down from, you know, their parents and grandparents.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: So what they're oh, but here's the thing.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: In their they have one room schoolhouses, you know, they're taught in this one room schoolhouse.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: And farming and gardening are not part of the curriculum.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: And the reason is because it used to just be a given.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: It was just passed down.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: It was what their lifestyle was like.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: The parents would teach them how to farm and garden.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, once it became industrial in that area and they moved away from the farm and got jobs, they didn't pass down those skills.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: So now what they're doing is they that community has gotten together and decided to revise this long-standing curriculum to include gardening, right?
22:51
SPEAKER_01: And agriculture.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: And so it's something like what this program is that I'm about to share with you.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: And I mentioned to them, I said, do you teach them herbalism?
23:03
SPEAKER_01: And they have not taught them herbalism.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: But I said, you know, that would be the next step.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Teach them how to grow their food and now teach them how to make their own medicine.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: So, anyhow, I'm going to give them some articles I've written and they'll have recipes that they can go off of and grow the herbs.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: But if anyone's listening, these are great tips on how to teach kill children.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: And actually, if you've not delved into this area, how to teach yourself, right?
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Because you're going to get the same types of benefits that these study participants have been receiving.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: And remember, it's because it's goal-oriented.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: And that's going to be the tip we're going to end on on this podcast.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: So just keep in mind this horticulture therapy program is designed to be goal-oriented.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: So it's eight sessions.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: And what they do is each session, they do about five minutes of an opening remarks.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: So telling you what the session is and then reviewing if you already had a session.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: Then there's about 50 minutes of a horticultural therapy activity.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: And then there's 20 minutes for like debriefing and reflection.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: And that's very important, the reflection part.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: The first three sessions focus on basic horticultural knowledge and skills.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: So these are things like uh the session is titled Grow with Hope.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Transplant Sprouting Seedling Activity.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: So they're going to learn and practice how to transplant.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the next one is the life cycle of plants propagating by cutting.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: They're going to learn and practice um propagation skills.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: They're going to reflect on um what they have already accomplished, um, learn uh sharing some appreciation for nature and share your thoughts about the vitality of plants, right?
24:52
SPEAKER_01: So they're not just going through the motions and being like, okay, this is how you cut this and plant this, and here's the soil.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: They're integrating a sense of appreciation and gratitude for what they're doing.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: This is a type of mindfulness.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: The third session is titled The Life Cycle of Plants Two, Propagating by Division.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: So more propagation skills, more reflecting, more appreciation, and sharing the thoughts on what the plants offer to the human.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, session four and five.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: The therapist guides the participant participant to use the plants, fruits, and herbs as media in mindfulness and relaxation activities.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: So session four, for instance, is called mindful eating, tasting fruits.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna experience mindful techniques during the activity uh by having them guide you through using your senses to taste a piece of fruit.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Then you're gonna share your thoughts with the group about using this experience um in mindful eating and its potential to use this as a relaxation activity in the future.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: Then the next session, um session five, is called Live Aroma, Introduction to Herbs.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna learn and practice diaphragmatic breathing exercises, right?
26:15
SPEAKER_01: This is so important, Joel, because you know most of us breathe through our chests and you can see it.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: You can see the shallow breaths people take, you can see the chests rise and fall.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's actually um an indicator that somebody is in a sympathetic state.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: You and I have talked about this.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: A big problem with mental illnesses, stress, anxiety, and so forth is that we spend roughly 70% of our day in chronic fight or flight.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: And you can check that on yourself partly by paying attention to your breathing.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: If you're breathing through your chest, you want to switch to breathe through your lower belly, right?
26:51
SPEAKER_01: So your diaphragmatic breathing.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: So in this uh part five, they're teaching them how to breathe through the diaphragm as they're inhaling the aromas of different herbs, right?
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Combining that together.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: And then you share your thoughts about the experience and using this as a relaxation method in the future.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay, then in session six and seven, the therapist conducts projects using the plants to make decorative things or other um other products.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: So for instance, they made self-designed garden um pot gardens using a combination of plants.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: They're learning how to design a pot garden and to how to decorate it.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: And then the group went around and shared their thoughts about the feeling of appreciation.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay, then there's one called um herbal bag production, natural aroma.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have now dried material experiencing the aroma of it, again, diaphragmatic breathing.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: Then they actually do harvest time, right?
27:59
SPEAKER_01: This is this is the last session, harvest time.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna harvest the vegetables that they've grown, right?
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Harvest any of the plants they've grown together.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: Then they're going to cook it together, learn how to cook this together.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: Then the group shares the symbolic meaning of harvest, right?
28:19
SPEAKER_01: What does it actually mean to them?
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Connecting them to the activity.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so to me, I read this and I actually started to tear up because I thought, what a beautiful program.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: And oh my goodness, I wish I had that as a child.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: I wish I had that now, right?
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Which is why I'm creating that now for myself and my kids.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: But Joel, isn't that beautiful?
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Like these goal-oriented tasks to teach you to not only appreciate you're appreciating nature at the same time, you're healing yourself.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, I think it's yeah, I think it's fantastic.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: And and um, you know, it it's just it's just a shame that in our culture we've gotten so far removed from our our connection and our just um uh conscious dependency on um on the mystery and majesty that's beyond ourselves, that we now have to actually create curricula to try to bring it back.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean that that's a uh that's a that's a real shame.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I know I know that um I mean for us here around here, for example, um applesauce.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: I I love applesauce, okay?
29:42
SPEAKER_00: And um, so every year we have a um a non-chemical apple orchard about an hour and a half away.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: And um we for I mean for decades, our family's gone to this apple orchard.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Um one one day I'm hoping to have a uh an orchardist here on our own farm that does our apples, but we we we've got some, we we have enough to eat, but we don't have enough to do, you know, a bunch of so we go up there, we get about, I don't know what, um, you know, seven, eight bushels uh of apples, usually seconds, not not the prime ones.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: We you know, they've already grated them.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: We get the we get the the ones with a little bit of blemish on them.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: And um bring them home and do we have applesauce, you know, day and uh or maybe two, and Teresa will can, I don't know, a hundred quarts of uh applesauce.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: And it is so amazing, it is so amazing at our table when the apprentices when because we have them in for you know for dinner, uh, and the first time they eat that homemade, just you know, there's no sugar added, there's no dye added, there's no nothing.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: It's just applesauce, uh, ground up apples.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: The first time they eat it, I mean, it's like they just discovered whatever.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: It's like they just met Mickey Mouse or something.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's I mean, it I don't want to uh diminish it to that point, but but yeah, I mean, I mean it's like the eyes become open.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: It's just oh wow.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and when you have that, I mean, you never want to get the junk from the supermarket again, ever, ever.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, because it's just so you just par.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, your your whole body just knows this is the real thing, and um, and that's a powerful thing.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: And and so uh, you know, that that brings that kind of mindfulness and that kind of aha.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, there is there is real provision here.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: It's not artificial, it's not fake, it's it's the real deal.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's like oh, I should say, that's like once you taste a tomato from your garden, yeah.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: You never go back to the store, bought tomato.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: You just can't.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: There's no comparison between that.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: There's there's just nothing there.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: And one of my favorite things, I mean, you've been here numerous times, but in the in the summer, we have these uh these current tomatoes that come up volunteer in the hoop houses.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: When the chickens come out, they come up volunteer.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, our very first apprentice Ty started those back almost 30 years ago.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: They're they're uh non-hybrid, open pollinated, supposedly the original cultivars from the tropics of the, you know, of the original tomatoes, okay?
32:34
SPEAKER_00: And these things are hardy, and every year they they just come up by themselves.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh the hoop houses get full of these current tomatoes.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: And there are few things I enjoy more than taking families in there, and we can never pick them up.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: We can never eat them and pick them.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're just they're just gallons and gallons and gallons.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're small, they're little, they're like little uh cherry tomatoes, and but you know, pick a couple of those and eat them right right off the vine.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, people just it's I mean, it it it's it's indescribable.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh uh the I mean the the the flavor just bursts in your mouth.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: It's just like there's no description to it.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I uh and that you know, and that brings gratitude, you know.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you mean you mean it can be this good?
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so many kids.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, I remember Elliot Coleman, he's the guru of you know, Four Seasons uh gardening, and he told me he knew he had arrived at Nirvana when his uh baby carrots, or the carrots he grew in his garden, were the number one trading option in the local schools.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, kids take their lunches to school, and hey, I'll, you know, hey, look what you got.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, and they trade off this different stuff.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: And uh normally, you know, they're trading desserts, you know, who's got a better cookie or who's got a better this and that.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: And and he found out through several moms that his carrots were the number one.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you have Elliot Coleman carrots?
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'll give you, I'll give you, I'll give you my chocolate chip cookie, you know, for uh carrots.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: And he said that's when he knew he'd arrived at at Vegetable Nirvana, you know, when he gotten to that point.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: And and that's the way it's supposed to be.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: And and one of our problems is, and I know this is about mental health, but but that uh in fact, my spring newsletter this year to our our customer base um is about edible happiness.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: Can we can we create can we create edible happiness uh and eat happiness through our food?
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Is a tomato, is a tomato that's that's fed compost and tenderly loved and cared for.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm getting kind of mystical and weird, okay, woo-woo, but but does that does that move into you, you know, as you ingest it?
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Or or for us, you know, it our our picket, uh pick pickings, pigs, chickens, and cows, um, you know, uh one of the things that that we've learned over the years is all of our meat, you know, um cooks about 15 to 20 percent faster than the stuff in the supermarket.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: All of our chefs tell us this, all you know, and most of the time it's an asset.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's a problem if you got you know too many regulations.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um, you know, well, why does it cook so fast?
35:32
SPEAKER_00: And and and um, and the only thing we've been able to figure out is that our animals are never stressed.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: Stress makes you secrete adrenaline.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Adrenaline makes your muscles harden up.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: And so the average factory farmed animal lives under a constant state of of stress.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: And so they're drip, drip, drip, you know, adrenaline in, and um, and so it it it it doesn't, it's not a far stretch for me to think if you're eating food that is under stress, uh, you know, that that has an effect on you.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: But but you know, back back to this the the big topic here.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: Um many if you if you want to kind of really delve into this, I would recommend two fantastic books.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Probably the one that really, I mean, you mentioned uh um, you know, Dr.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Um Dr.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: Rust back, you know, in 1812.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's going back a long way.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: But there are there are two more modern books that have really delved into the the science of this.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: And really one the first one was Richard, Richard Louvre, nature deficit disorder.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: He invented the term nature deficit disorder.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: And uh it's a it's a most profound, profound book.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Um and and probably he's probably the one who started this whole, you know, at least in modern days, um you know, that this whole idea of of nature deficit disorder.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: He invented the term and and really uh demonstrates it.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: And then and then more recently, Jenny Yurik, who has started the one uh who wrote the book 1,000 Hours Outside.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And uh I love her podcast.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: She's got a wonderful podcast.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've actually you know done some presentations with her at homeschooling conventions, just a wonderful, wonderful lady.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: But but her whole idea is um uh get your kids outside a thousand hours a year, and uh and and it doesn't matter what they do.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh climb trees, uh plant garden, you know, chase butterflies, uh, it doesn't matter.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: And and um and that that's a powerful thing.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, um one of our I'm of course I've been a big fan of children's gardens forever.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: And um I think one of the reasons that they're so therapeutic is because is because when you're because you're doing something real.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: We we live in a we live in a time of artificiality.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: We got we got artificial money, you know, artificial drugs, artificial just um living situations, you know, where well you mentioned uh manscapes, uh, you know, where everything you see, you know, streets and street lights and buildings and and and even your water uh is coming in you know artificially from a faucet.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, you used to have to go to a spring and dip it out with a bucket.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: And you heard the you heard the gurgling water as it as it moved out through, and and um and so so our you know, we we don't have to get firewood anymore.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: We flip on our energy, you know, you don't have to uh go harness up the the mule, you know, and the horse to to go.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: Everything has become uh um artificial uh in in our psyche.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that as humans we crave, we don't we don't see it, but we we crave that um that anchor to humus, human, humus, okay, dust to dust, earth to earth, and and and we crave that even when even when we're you know um, you know, even when we're not thinking about it, deep down our psyche, our you know, the the the most human part of humanness uh craves that kind of connection.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, this is a topic that's near and dear to my heart.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: I I think it's I think it's I will tell you this.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: I believe, and of course, you know, I talk to a lot of farmers, a lot of homesteaders, a lot, a lot of uh people are coming to homesteading or wanting to farm, and you know, how do I make a living?
40:12
SPEAKER_00: How do I make a living?
40:13
SPEAKER_00: How do I make a living?
40:14
SPEAKER_00: I believe, I believe that we are just entering the day where a therapy farm, a therapy farm, especially mental therapy, mental therapy farm can sell, and I want to merchandise, but can sell mental therapy uh that generates more value from that than chickens or tomatoes or corn or anything else that they can produce.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we are entering a time where a therapy farm is a real option.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: And I I hope I hope people who have a heart for people, who have a love for people, um will actually run with this because I I think that a I think that a that a horticultural, a farm setting uh that with you know without chemicals and with you know with love for the animals, love for the plants, love for the soil, um, love for the cycles of life, can offer therapy like nothing else can.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: And we see some of this, right?
41:34
SPEAKER_01: There's like horse farms that are therapy farms, you know, that people can go to.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and another thing that is newer is so, for instance, forest bathing has been shown through literature to be so healing that we now have medical doctors who are becoming forest bathing guides, and they've actually started to write prescriptions for forest bathing to their patients.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's remarkable.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, we even we know that we talked about natural killer cells at the top of this show.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, forest bathing's actually been shown to increase natural killer cells in the body, um, to affect immune function, to improve sleep, lift your mood, your attention, and to actually boost creativity.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so one thing I wanted to mention is um, because I know we're about out of time, and I do want to uh give the um the practical tip that we said we would leave with and talk about stress.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Just I'll try to condense this, okay?
42:36
SPEAKER_01: Um one thing I want to say is as I'm reading through all the different literature, and we'll put the links in the show description so people can go through all these studies themselves.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: It's fascinating.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: I started to wonder what what's the role of nature in this, and what's the role of, let's say, a reduction in stimulus.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: So if you follow along with me, there are these scientists, um, Ulrich and Parsons, and they came up with this theory that really what's happening is that modern society is bombarding us with um, bombarding our nervous system specifically, with too much noise, too much movement, and complex visual stimulation.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: And so what that means is that modern society, like the urban setting, for instance, it is causing a stress response.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: So it's stimulating the sympathetic nervous system, putting you more into um a heightened state of fight, flight, or freeze.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: And that if you remove the person from that urban setting and put them into a nature based setting or get enough nature around them, that you could actually decrease the sympathetic arousal, which calms the person down and helps to.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: It helps to decrease the perceived stress.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: There's debate about the exact ratio of like nature to these hardscapes or these man-made structures.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: But right now, the current theory is if you can get around you 70% nature versus 30% man-made structures, then we're they're showing some clinical advantage to that.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: And so what it's doing is it's taking the stimulus away from the nervous system.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of studies, but the the gist of these studies has shown that you can you can lower sympathetic arousal, you can alter your brain activity to have a higher ratio of alpha and beta, um, beta brain waves, and you can promote restoration from a stressful situation.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: And they've done all of these studies in great detail.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: But here's my thought.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we know that nature itself can benefit you in a multitude of ways.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: One of those is it can boost your microbiome, right?
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Just from being in nature.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: Grant, assuming they're not spraying chemicals, right?
45:06
SPEAKER_01: So you're boosting your microbiome just from being around it, from touching it, from breathing it in to your path in your passageways.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: It improves your diversity, which makes you more resilient.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, it also can elicit a calming sense from hearing the sounds, right?
45:22
SPEAKER_01: Using your senses.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: So the sounds of running water, the sounds of the birds, the sounds of the leaves rustling, that we know that calms the nervous system.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, it also plants release chemicals, right, that that affect us as humans.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: And one of those chemicals is like a it's like oil in the tree.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's it's called phytocyte.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: And what they showed was that that chemical is the one that actually boosts the natural killer cells in the body.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: So there's other chemicals that are being released.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: So clearly, nature itself does have a healing benefit on the body, mind, and the spirit.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: But let me throw in a little caveat here, something else to think about.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: Remember, I kept saying, remember, goal-oriented, right?
46:08
SPEAKER_01: The horticulture therapy in particular is goal-oriented, and we're seeing lots of success in that in that strategy.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: So, one thing I was thinking is particularly for mental illnesses and anxiety and stress in general, there is a dopamine release, right?
46:30
SPEAKER_01: When we have achieved our goals, you know, we all have these lists.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: Most of us have lists that we make for ourselves, and we like to check off the lists when we've succeeded and we'll joke around about it.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: Like the moms I know will be like, oh, I got my dopamine hit because I checked off my list, right?
46:45
SPEAKER_01: So it and actually the dopamine hit is largest right before you receive the reward, but that's a whole nother podcast.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: So you get these dopamine hits, right?
46:54
SPEAKER_01: And the dopamine, um, it's like a hope hormone or hope messenger, right?
47:00
SPEAKER_01: That's really what dopamine is.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: It's um you have hope that you're going to receive that reward.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: So when you get the reward, like this is the point.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: When you you get the dopamine hit, then you get the reward, right?
47:15
SPEAKER_01: So an example is if a child's about to get ice cream, right?
47:20
SPEAKER_01: They're anticipating they're going to get the ice cream.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: You hand them the ice cream, there's there, they scoop it with a spoon.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: The moment just before they put it in their mouth is probably when the most dopamine is going to be released.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: Once they stick it in their mouth, the dopamine drops.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Right.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: So, so what happens is a lot of us were so goal-oriented that we'll check off the list and all of a sudden we feel a drop again.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: Now we have to move forward to the next goal, right?
47:49
SPEAKER_01: In order to fill this perceived void.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I've said this my whole life, like, oh, I just accomplished this big task.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, why don't I feel happier?
47:57
SPEAKER_01: Why don't I feel more accomplished?
47:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, I have to go chase the next goal like right away.
48:02
SPEAKER_01: And because I'm chasing that hope, I'm chasing that hope messenger that is dopamine.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: So one thing that you can do is uh you can set smaller goals.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think this is one reason why horticultural therapy is so has such a profound impact on mental health, and particularly in reducing stress, because even in that eight-week program, there's an overall overarching goal, right?
48:34
SPEAKER_01: You're going to go from learning how to plant the seed in the end, learning how to cook the vegetables, right?
48:39
SPEAKER_01: That's a whole process.
48:40
SPEAKER_01: That's an eight-week process.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, what we need, especially those of us who tend to have a little more anxiety or feeling unrest or feeling overwhelmed, we need to accomplish shorter goals.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: So in each of these horticulture therapy sessions, they've identified a goal.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: There's a distinct endpoint to it.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: And the patients achieve that endpoint.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: So, in other words, you can think of it as when you have a stress, there's a stress response cycle that the body goes through.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: You initiate the sympathetic response, like if a like if a tiger, there's a threat, a tiger's chasing you, you'll initiate a sympathetic response.
49:19
SPEAKER_01: When the tiger goes away, the threat's removed, your body should normalize back down to the parasympathetic response.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: Most of us can't do that.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: Most of us, it's actually dysregulated.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: We have a hard time getting to the parasympathetic response.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: And this is part of learning to rewire your nervous system so you can calm yourself down and do things like not be sensitive to foods, right?
49:42
SPEAKER_01: If you're not, if you're sensitive to foods, that's one indicator that you're probably not spending most of your day in a parasympathetic state.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: You're in a dysregulated, heightened state.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: And it could be sympathetic arousal, it could be the freeze response where you've just collapsed and you're exhausted.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: So if you have little goals that you're achieving, you close that loop.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: So it's one way to actually retrain the nervous system to complete a stress response cycle.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one reason why a lot of these studies are showing that when you have these projects that you're doing in nature, it can help restore you to a sense of calm and peace because it's closing that loop.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: So I actually think that, particularly in these therapeutic applications of nature, you're getting a double benefit.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: You're getting the benefit from nature itself, and then you're applying these closed loops of short-term goal achievements that are actually rewiring your nervous system.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I played around with this a little bit, and this is my tip, and then I'll pass it back to you to close this out, Joel.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: So I played around with this a little bit because I'm sure I'm not the only one that loves to set goals and that loves her checklists, but also gets overwhelmed by her checklists, right?
51:08
SPEAKER_01: Like they stress me out.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: But Joel, doesn't that seem true, Joel?
51:11
SPEAKER_01: The checklists never end.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: There's always more tasks to put on your checklist.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: So it's like setting myself up for this failure because I can't ever complete that whole task, right?
51:23
SPEAKER_01: It's too big of a goal.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: So, so in brevity here, this is what I started doing.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: And it has been a game changer for me.
51:34
SPEAKER_01: I no longer feel anxious or stressed about my to-do list.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: This is how I did it.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've integrated multiple concepts here on um rewiring the nervous system and how to achieve goals.
51:48
SPEAKER_01: So I have one goal, and actually, science shows that the loftier your goal, the actually the more likely you are to achieve it.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: Like, isn't that crazy?
51:58
SPEAKER_01: So, like when we tell kids, dream big, use your imagination, reach for the stars, right?
52:04
SPEAKER_01: That's true for adults too.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: Dream big, set a lofty goal for yourself.
52:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: So, my lofty goal is, you know, as you know, Joel, um, I'm in the process of creating my my own YouTube channel.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: That my goal is to create a channel that actually helps people.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's my ultimate lofty goal.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: I would create this channel that actually helps people that's influential.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: So I would put normally put that on my to-do list, right?
52:32
SPEAKER_01: I write it out like that.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: That's my goal, and then I'm gonna work toward that.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: That in and of itself produces anxiety for me because that is overwhelming, and I can't achieve it in one sitting, right?
52:45
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not closing the stress response cycle, right?
52:49
SPEAKER_01: So um, so what I found fascinating is when I learned anxiety, anxiety is actually your friend if you let it be.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: Anxiety is um a motivator, it's like the currency of the nervous system.
53:07
SPEAKER_01: So it uses anxiety to move you forward.
53:11
SPEAKER_01: So what happens is there's different, we think of the nervous system as there's different positions.
53:15
SPEAKER_01: You could be back on your heels, you can be upright, or you can be moving forward, leaning forward, right?
53:22
SPEAKER_01: These are the main three states of the nervous system.
53:24
SPEAKER_01: And usually, like, so if you start out back on your heels, like you set a goal, you start out back on your heels.
53:30
SPEAKER_01: What drives you forward are a couple things.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: One is the feeling of anxiety.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: That's the motivator, right?
53:37
SPEAKER_01: What if I fail?
53:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: And that's actually sometimes a motivator for people.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: The dopamine hit also moves you forward because it's that hope.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: You're striving for that hope.
53:47
SPEAKER_01: So what happens is you have this lofty goal, but what it can do is backfire on you.
53:53
SPEAKER_01: It can just produce a constant state of anxiety, right?
53:56
SPEAKER_01: This leads to mental illness and chronic stress, which can lead to disease.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: So, what you do is you take that lofty goal and you work backwards, you break it down into small bites, small individual goals.
54:08
SPEAKER_01: So, I'll give you an example of mine.
54:11
SPEAKER_01: So that's my main goal.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: And then if I'm working backwards, how am I gonna get there?
54:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna release two videos a week.
54:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, how am I gonna do that?
54:19
SPEAKER_01: And like stay on top of it.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have 50 videos pre-recorded and already set up, scheduled to release.
54:25
SPEAKER_01: That's about half of your videos.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, then I'm gonna go break down from that.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna upload 25 videos.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna upload 10 videos, five videos, one video.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: See, these are all different mile points, mile markers.
54:37
SPEAKER_01: Then how do I get even one video uploaded?
54:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, I have to edit the video.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: We'll step it back, step back a step from that.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: I have to record the video, I have to write the script.
54:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have to actually outline the script.
54:53
SPEAKER_01: I have to research the script, but it starts with choosing the topics.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: So you have your lofty goal, but you can work backwards and break it down.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: What are the steps I need?
55:03
SPEAKER_01: And then what you do is you focus on the one step and you can check that one step off, but it completes your stress response cycle and it breaks it down so it's more manageable.
55:14
SPEAKER_01: So that last loop of how do I get one video up, I will repeat that loop 50 times, right?
55:21
SPEAKER_01: To get the 50 ones up.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: So instead of one big check of, hey, I got that channel up there with those 50 videos, I get the satisfaction and the hope and the motivation of checking off each individual one.
55:35
SPEAKER_01: And because I can check, um, I chose, I chose this breakdown based on what I can do in one sitting.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: Right?
55:43
SPEAKER_01: Because you can do it in one sitting, you can close the loop.
55:47
SPEAKER_01: And when you close the loop, the anxiety drops, right?
55:50
SPEAKER_01: When you can't close the loop, you sit in that state of anxiety because the body is trying to motivate you to move you forward to finish it.
55:59
SPEAKER_01: So have lofty goals, right?
56:03
SPEAKER_01: Create like the sky is the limit.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: Create the life of your dreams by picking a lofty goal, but break it down into these manageable bytes and create a system upon which you can actually achieve that goal.
56:16
SPEAKER_01: And if you noticed, I did not mention any time frames, right?
56:21
SPEAKER_01: That's a big thing.
56:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't put time frames on it because that can set you up to for failure, right?
56:26
SPEAKER_01: What if something came up?
56:27
SPEAKER_01: What if you got sick and you couldn't?
56:29
SPEAKER_01: What if that goal took you longer than you thought it was gonna take?
56:32
SPEAKER_01: So I create a system and then I carve out time in my schedule.
56:37
SPEAKER_01: So I'll be like every Tuesday from one to three, for instance, I'm gonna work on this, whatever the one task is, I'm gonna work on it.
56:44
SPEAKER_01: And I choose the task the day before, right?
56:47
SPEAKER_01: Based on how I'm feeling, based on if I think I what I think I can accomplish the next day, I will then choose that task the day before, write it down, and that's all I do.
56:57
SPEAKER_01: And here's the flip side is that once you've achieved that task, create balance by don't go to the next task, right?
57:07
SPEAKER_01: You fin you finish that stress response loop, right?
57:11
SPEAKER_01: You've completed the cycle, put it down, and now balance with doing something that's play-based, right?
57:20
SPEAKER_01: That will help solidify it.
57:21
SPEAKER_01: And that's one great way to actually rewire your nervous system and to combat mental illness.
57:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Joel, take it away.
57:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, um, all of those are, you know, it it they kind of boil down to how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time.
57:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we we we know that.
57:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we know that.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, one of the as you were as you were talking there, it it struck me, yeah, you you've given us a lot of the the science and the the behind the mental, all the loop and everything.
57:55
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm I'm convinced that a lot of it, just if I could boil it into a very practical wrap-up, one of the reasons that that the horticultural uh option is so dramatic in this space is because you can't speed it up.
58:20
SPEAKER_00: And so when you're when you're growing, well let's just say a tomato plant, because we both love homegrown tomatoes, you you know, you go out there every there's nothing, there's nothing you can do to that tomato plant to make it suddenly have a tomato.
58:35
SPEAKER_00: It has to go through, you know, one leaf, two leaves, three leaves.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: Then you, you know, you you you put then it gets big enough.
58:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, I got I better stake it here, it's gonna fall over, and you know, then it comes on up, and then you see the blossom on it.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: And fortunately, there's a honey bee around, a honey bee, you know, uh uh you see the honey bee on the flowers.
58:54
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, now it's being uh pollinated.
58:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay, now I've got it, and then and then sure enough, the blossom falls off.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: You've got this little itty bitty green fruit.
59:02
SPEAKER_00: Every day it gets a little bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, and finally it starts to turn red or yellow or you know, whatever, uh, or black, you know, depending on what uh variety you have.
59:11
SPEAKER_00: The point is, the point is, you cannot speed that up.
59:16
SPEAKER_00: And and we live in a hurried, harried, frantic, frenetic culture uh in which everybody's in a hurry and uh and and um wanting to shortcut or almost uh cheat, cheat the incrementalism of life.
59:40
SPEAKER_00: And there's something about the garden, the plants.
59:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh we're we're uh we're calving right now.
59:47
SPEAKER_00: We've got man, we've had so many calves in the last couple days.
59:50
SPEAKER_00: So the cows are just, you know, this is the season, and the calves are are just coming every day.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: And um, and you know, you that cow's gonna take nine and a half months to make that little calf, you know.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: She was bred back last year.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_00: You gotta wait till the calf comes.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing you can do.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: You can't go out there and say, come on, cow, can't you have a calf in eight months?
1:00:12
SPEAKER_00: Why does it take you nine and a half?
1:00:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and and and and live immersing, immersing in that biological time clock that operates completely outside our manipulative capacity is one of the things that that is therapy for our mental capacity.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_00: We can't we can't make it do, we can't make it do fast.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: And so, so you know what?
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: You just oh, today I got another leaf, today I got a blossom, today, you know, and and and you learn.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_00: Um I get chill bumps even talking about it, you learn to just be grateful for the expression of the day, and that I think is one of the greatest therapies.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_00: I'll close with this, Zena.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: This summer, for the first time, so I did a podcast, do a lot of guest podcasts.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: I did a guest podcast for the Navy SEALs foundation.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_00: So this is a foundation that ministers to you know to retired Navy SEALs, and um and it turned and what I found out during that podcast was a lot of these guys that come out of Navy SEALs are interested in farming.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_00: And and and basically they've spent their lives learning how to kill, and now they want to learn how to make life.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's tremendous therapy for them.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_00: They've been in some of the most, you know, crazy situations you can imagine.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: Talk about stress, the most stressful situations you can imagine.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: And as they as they get out of it, they're drawn.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_00: They're they're like like you know, internally drawn to what if I can make something live, you know, instead of trying to figure out a strategy to you know to kill something.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: And so this summer, for the first time, they have asked us to um to offer them one of our two-day seminars, our polyface intensive discovery seminars, exclusively for the Navy SEALs.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_00: And and so, so we're excited.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_00: Our whole our whole crew is excited to have this whole bunch of, it would be about 30, 35 of them uh coming for these two days um to learn how to grow things, love things.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're gonna do some, we're gonna butcher some chickens.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_00: But but you know, uh it's mainly gonna be about it's mainly gonna be about growing and living and stewarding and caressing this ecological umbilical.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_00: And we are just so excited.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_00: And now doing this podcast with you and listening to the science around the loop, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be far more uh in tune, I think, with with what's with what's not being spoken, what's going on internally in them uh for those two days.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_00: So thanks for preparing me, I think, in in a better way for that.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: We're we're really excited about it, and um, and that's that's gonna be a fun time.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: Thank you everyone for joining us on another Beyond Labels podcast.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh sorry for going a little bit long, but it is a it is a profound, profound topic, and we just encourage everyone to touch nature in some way and appreciate the joy that comes from that.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us.
1:03:39
SPEAKER_00: We'll look forward to being with you next week.