Latest / Talking Trees with Davey Tree / Setting Your Lawn Up for Success PART ONE

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Setting Your Lawn Up for Success PART ONE · Talking Trees with Davey Tree

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Davy Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Doug Oster.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees Podcast, we know trees are the answer.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's our annual look at lawns with Zane Roddenbusch.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: She is the manager of research operations for the Davy Tree Expert Company, and we talk twice a year about uh growing grass.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Zayn, how are you today?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the show.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks for having me, Doug.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm doing well.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean, manager of research operations?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're pretty unique at the Davy Tree Company.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: We have an internal team of research scientists that has the opportunity to try to solve problems that we're seeing within our operations or the greater green industry.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So right now that team is three full-time scientists, myself, Dr.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Adam Baker, who's a pollinator ecologist, and Dr.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Grant Thompson, who's a soil scientist.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So uh basically manage some budgets, move some resources around, try to help facilitate uh for people getting their stuff done.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we just know you as the lawn expert.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still that, so that that hasn't changed.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I still provide a lot of ad hoc uh technical support from a lawn care and turf grass management standpoint.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for spring, I can tell you right now, in the east, it's been cold and wet, and the grass is growing like crazy.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh are we still fertilizing?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is this the time to fertilize our lawn?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, this is a good time to fertilize.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is interesting.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was looking at um kind of the growing degree days and the soil temperatures, and it has been a yo-yo of spring in terms of temperatures.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: In this area, I typically see uh crabgrass emerge the first week in May.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I actually saw it emerging 10 days ago.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: So even though we've kind of had these cooler nights and little stents, we've had enough warm days that things are chugging along to your point.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: The grass is really growing.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say we seem to be about a week ahead of schedule from what I typically see the last couple years.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, it's it's a good time to fertilize.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: The grass is growing vigorously, so it's trying to extract a lot of nutrients from the soil.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: You want to make sure that they are there.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if I fertilize, I'll be cutting twice a week.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: You definitely, you know, if you want the highest quality lawn possible, you you need to be cutting twice a week here for the next couple weeks.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's really no way around that.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a good time, though, to promote density.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the grass responds to mowing by tillering, and that improves density.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're someone with a really thin lawn and you're mowing it every 10 days and scalping it, that's that's contributing a lot to the issues.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So mowing is so essential.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can, if you do it right, it can really improve the quality of the turf grass stand done improperly.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can have a lot of issues.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always teach people this kind of three facets there.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: The mowing frequency piece, which you're talking about, which is how often you're mowing, and that will change by seasons.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, yeah, you probably need to mow your lawn every five days.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is and we're keeping it how tall?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Good general rule of thumb is three inches.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we have a lot of customers, every customer you've ever met, Doug mows their lawn at three inches, though.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if you ask somebody, hey, what do you mow your yard at, they'd say three inches.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I like to check it, and so we I teach our our folks to use a credit card.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you hold that credit card.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the the width of a credit card is about three and a third inches.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: So put that down in a turf like a feeler gauge, and you should see after you mow that just the top of that credit card is sticking out.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: If half of it's sticking out, uh you're mowing too too low.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And early in the spring like this, how much am I taking off?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: When do I know to cut it?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you're saying you want me to cut it twice a week, that means we don't want to cut a lot of it off, right?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to let it get six inches tall and then cut it in half.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're correct.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the one-third rule is the old kind of anecdotal thing in turf, but it's tried and true.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So at any one mowing event, we don't want to remove more than one-third of the leaf tissue.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, this time of year when you're mowing, you should be taking about a about an inch of the turf off at each particular mowing.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: But hey, like all of us, life gets in the way, and uh it's not always possible to keep up with that five-day rule.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you know nothing wrong if you can't get there in time to just take the mower up a notch, mow it, and turn around, and if you can get back on it sooner to bring it back down to its normal mowing height.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: But what you don't want to do is get in there and really scalp it.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if you scalp it, you'll see uh you remove all of the leaf tissue.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the plant's ability to make food has just been totally removed.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what are the things that I need to do to get that lawn mower in shape so that it is cutting at the sharp blade, that sort of thing?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, uh definitely want to make sure you have a sharp and balanced blade.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're someone mechanically inclined, you can do that yourself.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: If not, take it to a local small engine piece.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you a common thing that people overlook this time of year is the grass is really succulent.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when you mow it, you know, it wants to clump easy.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it doesn't take much.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you have like any kind of mulching mower, you'll notice that all of a sudden they start to struggle.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: That they you can tell that they are having a hard time effectively mulching the turf.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens is that mower deck just gets packed with grass.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that this time of year, more than any, really important, uh, particularly if you're mowing that real succulent grass, to get under that mower deck and clean it because that's going to create more area under the deck for all that mulching to occur.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll be blown away, Doug, by the improvement and quality of cut that can come from just cleaning the mower deck.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, sharp blades, clean mower deck.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, obviously, you know, just general maintenance.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you not change the oil or service to make sure that you're good to go there.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think of the balanced part of the blade.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: How does that work?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that done?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: It it can the old trick is to put it on the nail.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when you take the blade off and you sharpen it, you should be trying to take off about the same amount of material from each side.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not always possible.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you hit something, you might have a big gouge on one side of the blade, so you need to take more material off.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're done balancing, if you have a nail on a stud, just hang it off, hang that blade off the nail, and you'll see it'll the heavy side will go to the bottom, and then you just grind off a little bit more material from the um from the heavier side until it's balanced.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: If a blade is really out of balance, you're gonna get a lot of vibration back through the mower, and that's the kind of thing that can just start to vibrate pieces apart and crack welds, and then also just to make sure that the blade is flat.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you can just lay it on a flat tabletop and make sure um that it isn't isn't warped, no cracking.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: If there are any cracks, discard it, get a new blade.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's touch on safety when we are under the mower.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's very important.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not handy, like Zane, you said, just take it to the shop because safety is is number one.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it is.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you don't know what you're doing, you could get yourself in some trouble there.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: If it's just a standard push rotary mower and you want to do some service like sharpen a blade, first thing I would do is pull the spark plug wire off, and I might even remove the spark plug itself if you're really curious without any kind of ignition source.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: The motor's not going to turn over.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, you know, for removing blades, getting a block of wood wedged between the mower deck and the blade will help the blade from spinning.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you own any kind of impact tools, that's the best way to get a blade off, is with an electric impact or pneumatic impact gun.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you are on a using some kind of riding mower, you're gonna have to likely either drop the deck and slide it out or get it up on some type of stands.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, make sure it's well secure there.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: I also um I sometimes will undo the negative side terminal of the battery to make sure it can't turn over and also pull the spark plug.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, we want to make sure that under no circumstance, if you rotate that spindle assembly, that it gets the motor cranking.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the biggest thing you don't want to have happen is suddenly the you're turning the blade down there and the mower turns over.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: With the grass growing so vigorously here in the spring, what is the next thing that homeowners are asking you about?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is it weeds or definitely lots of questions about weeds this time of year, Doug?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is where you know everything is waking up.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is your lawn is a mixture of a lot of different species.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe some people are fortunate to have a lawn that was sodd with Kentucky bluegrass and it's perfectly uniform.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But most people have a lawn that's a mixture of different species.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Some of those are all desirable, but a lot of times over the course of 20, 30, 40 years of a lawn being there, undesirable species get in there.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And in the spring, things wake up and start growing at different rates.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you have grasses that are coming out of dormancy sooner, some that are slower, some that have different color in the spring.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I get a lot of questions about these perennial grassy weeds in the spring that people did not notice in previous years.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: They've been there for many years, Doug.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that in the spring, those differences in color and texture and growth are really evident.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Fast forward another month, and everything kind of evens out.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the stand becomes more uniform, and usually a lot of people's concerns go away.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I get a lot of questions about Poa Trivialis, orchard grass, nimble will, uh creeping bent grass, a lot of these perennial grassy weeds.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: I get questions about this time of year.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, no, no easy button with any of those ones that I listed.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're uh those are hard conversations to have with customers.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, this is not an easy fix.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna take time.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we either try to mask it or you know, live with it for another month, and another month it won't be as noticeable.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I like that.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh ignore it.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Better is the enemy of good sometimes as it relates to turf grass.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Means you've got a good turf grass stand, and and you want to make it better, you know, you're chasing perfection, that 80-20 rule quickly comes into play where you'll put a lot more resources into it to get that last 20%.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So for a lot of people, you know, having a a dense, healthy turf grass stand is is good.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, mine is the ultimate quilted lawn.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's got so many species in it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not sure uh if it's if it's any grass left.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I understand.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: We just moved and I inherited a lawn like that, and um, you know, I could tell that that lawn had not been fertilized.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just amazing, Doug.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Just uh I fertilized it one time.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: We moved in there in August, and you can already see just a little bit of fertilizer and proper mowing.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: The quality is improving.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So those cultural practices they matter.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um did you work on it in the fall?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I did not work on it in the fall.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Just um just one fertilizer event and timely, timely mowing.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't do anything this this spring.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing a little a little patchwork.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: There were some places that were just totally bare, and I've really been playing around.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Davy started a biochar production facility in Chicago.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've been making these blended products where we've been blending biochar and compost, and I've been playing around with some of our different mixtures.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've been really impressed.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, go in there to those bare areas, scratch them up, seed them, and then top dress them with about a quarter inch of this biochar compost, and the material is black, so it really helps in the spring, kind of warms things up and it holds moisture.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've got some areas where I did it with and without.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the stuff where I did it with, the grass was up in seven days, the areas without uh it took about 14 days, and it just came in real thin.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: The areas that I seeded earlier, they almost look fully mature.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So um been doing a little bit of stuff like that, but otherwise, not much.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, just besides fertilizing and a little bit of reseeding, that's all that it needs uh to make it uh happy as far as you're concerned, as far as the way you want it to look.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, there's uh there's some broadleaf weeds in there that I could go around and spot treat.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a good time to spot treat those weeds now because fast forward another five, six weeks, the growth of the grass is going to slow down dramatically.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Cool season grasses where we live dug exhibit, you've maybe seen these grass that they call it a bimodal growth curve, where there's like a big surge of growth in the spring, and then in the summer it dips down and really almost can stop growing.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you've probably experienced that where it's like I can go three weeks without mowing my yard, and then in the fall it it ticks up again.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the mistake people make is they start doing all that weed control in the lull in the summer.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you go in and you control the weeds, but the turf isn't growing, it's not gonna fill in the void.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So uh getting control really in the fall is the best time because then you have the fall and the spring to fill the voids before you're in the summer.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the second best time would be in the spring.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so right now is a good time to be going out there if you're someone that wants to spot treat your weeds, your broadleaf weeds, your dandelions, your clovers, your you know, wild violets, ground ivies, now's a good time to do that.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm very much an 80-20 person, Doug.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know after working many years at the highest level, I know how much resources it takes to make it perfect.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um I've become I've become more of a horticulturist.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoy my my perennials and my gardening, and I I enjoy my lawn too, but I know uh my time is finite and I have a family, and uh I I do what it takes to get that 80 80% of the benefit, which is generally timely mowing, a couple key fertilizations a year, and you're off and running.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that sounds good to me.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but we know there's plenty of homeowners out there, they want it to be perfect, and they're willing to put the work in.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're saying is you've got to put the work in.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, and I like that too.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: There, I could get a lot of fulfillment out of making that lawn perfect.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a time, it's a time thing for me now.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that's a beautiful part of being in the green industry.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's a real artistic and satisfactory, there's a there's a therapeutic part of it.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure for a lot of people, um, that's what it's about.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, if you want that yard to be perfect, I think the biggest hurdle I see from people who are chasing perfection is what we discussed earlier in the show, is just that your lawn is a mixture, generally a mixture of different species.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And over time, undesirable perennial weeds can get in there, and you just won't be able to fix that.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you really almost have to hit a reset and renovation.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lot I have a lot of hard, difficult conversations with customers where they want that perfection, but their lawn is 30, 40 years old, and it's you know, it needs a restart in order to get that perfection.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So those are hard conversations to have, but eventually most people kind of meet that crossroad where all right, if I really want it, we're gonna have to start over, introduce some superior plant material into the lawn, and actually that then it gets a little bit easier because the plants of today, Doug, are light years ahead of what we had 30, 40 years ago.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: In what way?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So modern grass is better than old grass.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, just uh land grant institutions in combination with private breeders.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, these turf grass breeding programs are large.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're making hundreds of thousands of crosses, selecting the best plants.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, they'll cross these plants, put them in individual plantings, they might inoculate them with diseases, they might put them through drought stresses, and they'll look at the individual plants that are performing their best.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: They'll select them, they'll breed them together through through mostly recurrent selection.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: They have just created grasses that have improved disease resistance, um, better pest tolerance, better drought tolerance, better heat tolerance, better color, texture, spring green up.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot less inputs to get the same level of quality.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's really it's impressive.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was in graduate school, I had the opportunity to rate a lot of those trials, it's called the NTEP, National Turf Grass Evaluation Program.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: They are uh they're an entity that takes everybody's best stuff, you know, all these breeders and these seed companies, they get their stuff that's coming to market, they package it up, send it to universities, they plant them in these replicated trials where there might be 50 different cultivars, Doug, and you just go through and you rate them, and it's amazing.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: You get into the dog days of summer, and it'll be like, what is that one?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: That one is really, you know, there'll be a handful in that out of those 50 that are just light years better than the rest.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we want to be putting in your lawn.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's fascinating.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, we're already out of time for part one, Zane.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And every time that Zane and I talk, we've got to do at least a two-parter because I could talk to you all day about this.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh for next week, I want to continue our talk about seeding and using these modern seeds and also a little bit more about weed control, fertilization, and what else we should be doing on the lawn.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, Zayn, as always, thank you for part one, and uh, we'll talk again for part two next week.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good, Doug.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I always learn something new from Zane.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to talk to him next week.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees Podcast from the Davy Tree Expert Company.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Doug Oster, and as always, I want you to subscribe to the podcast so you won't miss anything.
• 19:44
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• 19:46
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• 19:48
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• 19:52
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• 19:57
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• 20:02
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• 20:05
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