Transcript

Sharri | 12 June · Sharri

0:04
Speaker 1: Showing well, good evening and first tonight the Albanezi governments
0:10
Speaker 1: that Climate Change Authority is aiming for an even higher
0:14
Speaker 1: emissions reduction target of sixty five to seventy five percent
0:19
Speaker 1: by twenty thirty five. This is a massive increase on
0:23
Speaker 1: the current target of forty two percent by twenty thirty Now,
0:27
Speaker 1: while the Prime Minister wouldn't answer questions about his twenty
0:30
Speaker 1: thirty five target, today I can reveal the Climate Change
0:34
Speaker 1: Minister Chris Bowen, has written to his agency asking for
0:38
Speaker 1: advice on what the emissions reduction targets should be by
0:42
Speaker 1: twenty thirty five, and documents show that the agency once
0:47
Speaker 1: a target of between sixty five to seventy five percent,
0:51
Speaker 1: even though electricity prices are already through the roof. In
0:56
Speaker 1: this letter I've obtained, Chris Bowen writes, and I quote,
1:00
Speaker 1: I request the Climate Change Authority provide me with advice
1:04
Speaker 1: on potential national greenhouse gash emissions reduction targets for twenty
1:09
Speaker 1: thirty five, and he's asked for this new advice urgently,
1:14
Speaker 1: he wrote, in order to allow for sufficient time for
1:17
Speaker 1: consideration of all relevant issues. The government would appreciate the
1:21
Speaker 1: Authority providing its advice no earlier than first of October
1:26
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.
1:28
Speaker 2: Now, the Climate Change.
1:29
Speaker 1: Authority is on record in these documents saying that the
1:33
Speaker 1: emission's reduction target needs to be even higher than the
1:37
Speaker 1: current twenty thirty target of forty two percent, which Labor
1:42
Speaker 1: is already unlikely to meet. Tony Wood from the Gratin
1:46
Speaker 1: Institute has said the government will face immense challenges trying
1:50
Speaker 1: to meet even its current target.
1:54
Speaker 3: We're about halfway there, but it's taking this the last
1:57
Speaker 3: twenty years to get halfway there.
1:59
Speaker 4: We've got, you know, only five years to get the
2:01
Speaker 4: other half, and that looks really hard.
2:03
Speaker 5: Is it possible?
2:04
Speaker 6: Technically?
2:05
Speaker 5: Is that looks to be very challenging.
2:08
Speaker 2: Well, now let's go to the documents.
2:10
Speaker 1: In fact, Chris Bowen's agency once a target of sixty
2:14
Speaker 1: five to seventy five percent, as you can see in
2:17
Speaker 1: this twenty twenty four issues paper they've produced, and it
2:22
Speaker 1: states the evidence to date suggests the Authority consider targets
2:27
Speaker 1: broadly within the sixty five percent to seventy five percent range. Now,
2:33
Speaker 1: just to show you how extreme that is, it was
2:37
Speaker 1: the Green's policy at the last election to have a
2:41
Speaker 1: target of seventy five percent by twenty thirty. So here's
2:45
Speaker 1: Chris Bowen's own agency recommending that same Green's target of
2:49
Speaker 1: seventy five percent just five years later.
2:53
Speaker 2: And they admit in this document that.
2:56
Speaker 1: This will need to meet that target, there will need
3:00
Speaker 1: to be even more action by households in businesses, and
3:04
Speaker 1: they say that ambitious targets could impact on our economy
3:08
Speaker 1: and society. And I quote the evidence the Authority has
3:12
Speaker 1: considered so far suggests a twenty thirty five target in
3:15
Speaker 1: the range of sixty five to seventy five percent below
3:18
Speaker 1: two thousand and five levels would be ambitious and could
3:22
Speaker 1: be achievable and sustainable if additional action is taken by governments, businesses,
3:30
Speaker 1: investors and households to achieve it. They say, however, attempting
3:35
Speaker 1: to go much faster could risk significant levels of economic.
3:39
Speaker 2: And social disruption and put progress at.
3:43
Speaker 1: Risk significant levels of economic and social disruption. Now, electricity
3:49
Speaker 1: prices have already gone up by around twenty five percent
3:52
Speaker 1: a year since the election in twenty twenty two, and
3:56
Speaker 1: there are warnings that we could face blackouts in New
3:59
Speaker 1: South Wales and Victoria come summer. This is partly why
4:04
Speaker 1: Labor Premier are Chris mins. The premiere in New South
4:07
Speaker 1: Wales has now extended the life cycle of the state's
4:11
Speaker 1: largest coul fired power station.
4:13
Speaker 7: Well.
4:14
Speaker 1: The Opposition leader Peter Dutton said today that if Australia
4:18
Speaker 1: has a forty two percent target, well, he says, imagine
4:22
Speaker 1: what a sixty five percent target would do.
4:25
Speaker 3: We saw the Prime Minister and his very angry state
4:29
Speaker 3: that he was in telling people that he couldn't really
4:33
Speaker 3: explain what a sixty five to seventy five percent target
4:37
Speaker 3: looks like. In February of next year, the government's going
4:39
Speaker 3: to have to sign up to a new target by
4:41
Speaker 3: twenty thirty five. What does it mean for families who
4:44
Speaker 3: are struggling at the moment where Anthony Albnezi promised at
4:47
Speaker 3: the last election that there would be a two hundred
4:48
Speaker 3: and seventy five dollars decrease in your power bill. Instead
4:52
Speaker 3: there's been one thousand dollars increase in your power bill.
4:54
Speaker 3: But how much higher will your electricity prices go under
4:58
Speaker 3: this prime minister?
5:00
Speaker 1: And the Prime Minister was asked about his twenty thirty
5:03
Speaker 1: five targets today and it's a relevant question given they
5:07
Speaker 1: need to be submitted to the UN by February next year,
5:11
Speaker 1: but Albin Easy didn't want to speak about what their
5:13
Speaker 1: twenty thirty five target would be.
5:15
Speaker 2: He wouldn't say a word. Can you gallantee?
5:19
Speaker 6: He will announce it thirty private targeting minutes year.
5:24
Speaker 8: I'm guaranteeing the twenty thirty target that we have legislated,
5:29
Speaker 8: as well as knit zero by twenty fifty. What we're
5:32
Speaker 8: concentrating on is delivering forty three percent by twenty thirty
5:37
Speaker 8: and we've got a mechanism to get there well.
5:40
Speaker 9: Now.
5:40
Speaker 1: As I've revealed tonight, Chris Bowen has given his agency
5:44
Speaker 1: until the first of October to prepare their formal advice
5:48
Speaker 1: on their twenty thirty five targets. But his own agency's
5:52
Speaker 1: analysis from this year shows that they do want an
5:56
Speaker 1: even more aggressive target of sixty five to say, five percent,
6:01
Speaker 1: and there are concerns that this will have major social
6:04
Speaker 1: and economic consequences. Now, everyone can have their own view
6:09
Speaker 1: on what our targets should be, but there is one
6:13
Speaker 1: thing that we can all agree on that more ambitious
6:16
Speaker 1: targets in just a decade's time is something that the
6:18
Speaker 1: Alban Eazy government should be clear, transparent, honest and open
6:23
Speaker 1: about it. Shouldn't take us tracking down the detail to
6:27
Speaker 1: tell you about what they're planning. It's just like before
6:31
Speaker 1: the federal election when they took a small target agenda
6:34
Speaker 1: to the polls and then implemented radical change that they
6:38
Speaker 1: never told you about, whether it was on Middle East
6:41
Speaker 1: foreign policy, on border security, on immigration levels, or on
6:45
Speaker 1: ir reform. Once again, we're seeing alb and Easy today
6:50
Speaker 1: waving away questions, and you just saw it waving away
6:52
Speaker 1: questions about twenty thirty five targets when their own documents
6:57
Speaker 1: show plans are currently underway for extremely ambitious and aggressive targets,
7:04
Speaker 1: targets at the Greens held.
7:06
Speaker 2: In just a decade's time. Now.
7:12
Speaker 1: We'll discuss this with my panel in a moment. But
7:15
Speaker 1: also tonight, Labor under threat from Muslim independent candidates. This
7:19
Speaker 1: is partly why alban EASi is taking such a strong.
7:22
Speaker 2: Anti Israel stance.
7:24
Speaker 1: To discuss this, my exclusive interview tonight with former Labor
7:27
Speaker 1: Minister Mike Kelly on how his own party.
7:31
Speaker 2: Is betraying the Jewish community.
7:34
Speaker 1: Also American concerns about Australia's commitment to ORCUS. Shadow Defense
7:38
Speaker 1: Minister Andrew Hasty will be on the show live and
7:42
Speaker 1: the President's son Hunter Biden found guilty in his gun trial.
7:46
Speaker 1: Across Live to Washington for the latest. But first now
7:50
Speaker 1: let's bring in tonight's panel labor legend Graham Richardson and
7:53
Speaker 1: Liberal Senator James McGrath.
7:56
Speaker 2: Welcome to you both.
7:57
Speaker 1: Well, let's start with that climate change topic. And we
8:01
Speaker 1: saw today Peter Dutton accusing the Prime Minister of destroying
8:05
Speaker 1: the economy while trying to meet net zero targets. Let's
8:08
Speaker 1: have a look at what he had to say.
8:11
Speaker 3: We want to make sure that we've got an energy
8:13
Speaker 3: policy that's working for Australians, not against them. I'm not
8:16
Speaker 3: going to sign up to an arrangement that destroys our
8:19
Speaker 3: economy and sends families and small businesses into bankruptcy.
8:24
Speaker 8: What Peter Dutton is saying is that he won't have
8:27
Speaker 8: a twenty thirty target. This is an extraordinary failure of
8:33
Speaker 8: leadership from Peter Dutton. It shows he's not up to
8:37
Speaker 8: the job of being the alternative prime minister of this country.
8:41
Speaker 1: Well, as The Nightly put it, the Prime Minister's attack
8:44
Speaker 1: on Peter Dutton's decision to dump the twenty thirty emissions
8:47
Speaker 1: target was and I quote, a hollow distraction from the
8:51
Speaker 1: real issues of cost of living and how our nation
8:55
Speaker 1: is going to handle the inflation challenge. All right, rich O,
9:00
Speaker 1: you think do you agree with that analysis there in
9:02
Speaker 1: the Nightly? Do you think the Prime Minister has dredged
9:05
Speaker 1: up the climate was once again as a distraction from
9:08
Speaker 1: his detainee scandal and in the hopes of scoring some
9:12
Speaker 1: political points over Dutton after that disastrous news poll for
9:16
Speaker 1: him just earlier this week.
9:19
Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't think this is Anthony's finest hour, and
9:23
Speaker 10: I think Dutton has had the best of the week,
9:26
Speaker 10: and I think there's been quite a gap between them.
9:29
Speaker 10: Dutton hasn't had a tremendous time as opposition leader, but
9:33
Speaker 10: he's coming into his own now and he's doing very well.
9:37
Speaker 10: Labor ought to be taking very very closely over, watching
9:41
Speaker 10: very very closely everything he does, because this thinks he
9:44
Speaker 10: can get there.
9:47
Speaker 2: Look, James, let's bring you in here.
9:49
Speaker 1: What is the coalition argument on rejecting net zero by
9:53
Speaker 1: twenty thirty, Because if as Peter Dutton says, and as
9:56
Speaker 1: the analysts say, just like Tony Wood from the Gratin Institute,
9:59
Speaker 1: if Labour's not going to meet those targets anyway, why
10:02
Speaker 1: not just put pressure on labor over that point.
10:08
Speaker 9: Because labor are misleading the Australian people. They've got these targets,
10:13
Speaker 9: they know they're not going to reach them. And what
10:15
Speaker 9: they're doing is what I call dead cat politics. You
10:18
Speaker 9: get a dead cat, you put it on the table.
10:20
Speaker 9: Everyone's looking the dead cat and forgetting about the real issues.
10:23
Speaker 9: And politicians do this all the time and Albanize is
10:26
Speaker 9: doing it. The number one issue in Australia at the
10:28
Speaker 9: moment is cost of living. It is everywhere. I was
10:32
Speaker 9: at Farmfest last week in Twomba and that's what people
10:35
Speaker 9: were talking about. And for labor to have these unrealistic targets,
10:39
Speaker 9: but targets are actually hurting businesses, hurting Australian families because
10:44
Speaker 9: it's driving up the cost of electricity. The Coalition's position
10:48
Speaker 9: is pretty clear. We support net zero by twenty fifty,
10:52
Speaker 9: but we want electricity to be affordable and reliable and
10:55
Speaker 9: we want to look at all forms of energy rich.
10:58
Speaker 2: I do you agree with that?
10:59
Speaker 1: Do you think they're it'll be voter frustration with Albanezi
11:02
Speaker 1: returning to climate was when, as James McGrath says, cost
11:06
Speaker 1: of living is the central issue that families are really
11:09
Speaker 1: struggling with right now.
11:11
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think Albow is going to have a hell
11:13
Speaker 10: of a battle on his hands to convince people that
11:16
Speaker 10: his priority is greater than their cost of living. Cost
11:20
Speaker 10: of living, cost of living, they're the first three issues,
11:23
Speaker 10: and you can't pretend that anything else is going to
11:27
Speaker 10: knock one of those three off. That's it, and you
11:30
Speaker 10: know we have to work within that framework, and that's
11:33
Speaker 10: what labor's not doing at the moment.
11:36
Speaker 5: Yeah.
11:36
Speaker 2: Look, it's going to be a big issue.
11:38
Speaker 1: And of course we hear the news that it now
11:39
Speaker 1: looks like interest rates aren't going to be cut until
11:42
Speaker 1: at least twenty twenty five. So just sticking with you
11:45
Speaker 1: for a minute, Richo, that's going to do You think
11:47
Speaker 1: that would rule out any early election this year because
11:50
Speaker 1: the argument for an early election was off the back
11:53
Speaker 1: of an interest rate cut.
11:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
11:55
Speaker 10: I think certainly, were I in the job, I would
11:59
Speaker 10: not be going to the places this year. There'll be
12:01
Speaker 10: no relief inside and therefore you've got absolutely no advantage
12:07
Speaker 10: in going early. And you know people in the past
12:11
Speaker 10: you go early if you think it's going to be
12:13
Speaker 10: a big help to you. Well, I can't see any
12:15
Speaker 10: aid whatsoever going to Labor over this, So I'd be
12:19
Speaker 10: keep him a power to dry and I'd be looking
12:20
Speaker 10: at next year.
12:22
Speaker 1: And that is what the PM keeps saying. He keeps
12:24
Speaker 1: saying he intends to serve his full term. But the
12:27
Speaker 1: reports are James, that your side, the coalition is preparing
12:31
Speaker 1: for an early election. So are you expecting that Labor
12:34
Speaker 1: might go later this year?
12:38
Speaker 9: Our Poland House last week was full of rumors about
12:41
Speaker 9: an early election, whether it's going to be in August
12:44
Speaker 9: or There is one well known cabinet minister who was
12:48
Speaker 9: telling people to prepare for an early December election. Good
12:52
Speaker 9: oppositions always prepare for an early election. I know that
12:55
Speaker 9: Andrew Hurst as the Federal director and they can follow
12:57
Speaker 9: as the Federal NATS director, and David will Proud and
13:00
Speaker 9: Peter Dutton are getting their teams ready. We've got candidates
13:03
Speaker 9: being pre selected. We want an election sooner rather than
13:06
Speaker 9: later because we know that that Alban Easy is not
13:11
Speaker 9: up to the job of being Prime minister.
13:12
Speaker 1: James, can I just pull you up on and what
13:15
Speaker 1: you just said said there which cabinet minister was talking
13:18
Speaker 1: about a December election.
13:22
Speaker 9: I don't want to say that, but.
13:24
Speaker 6: The building was full.
13:27
Speaker 9: The building was full of rumors about this particular Labor cabinet.
13:30
Speaker 5: Minus always and.
13:36
Speaker 9: Rumors are true.
13:39
Speaker 6: Also probably started them.
13:41
Speaker 2: It's just friends cabinet minister.
13:45
Speaker 9: That's officious and hurtful allegation. No, I won't say that,
13:48
Speaker 9: but what I'm going to say is that clearly the
13:50
Speaker 9: Labor Party are also looking at an early election. The
13:53
Speaker 9: Prime Minister has not ruled out calling an election this year,
13:56
Speaker 9: and to Richo's point, he will go when he thinks
14:00
Speaker 9: he can win, and I think in hees rates stay
14:03
Speaker 9: as they are. He probably won't go this year because
14:05
Speaker 9: of the economic circumstances. But all right, things can get
14:09
Speaker 9: a lot worse. So be scared, mister Albanizy, be scared.
14:13
Speaker 2: I'm honest warning that.
14:14
Speaker 1: All right, let's have a look at the advice today
14:17
Speaker 1: from Australia's former Deputy Chief Health Officer, doctor Nick Coatesworth.
14:22
Speaker 1: He's told Ben Fordham on t GB that he's not
14:25
Speaker 1: going to get another COVID vaccine.
14:27
Speaker 2: Have a listen.
14:28
Speaker 11: I've had my influenza vaccine and I'm still being vaccinated
14:32
Speaker 11: for COVID. No, when did you stop doing that? About
14:35
Speaker 11: two years ago? I had three vaccines and that's been
14:37
Speaker 11: enough for me. Any reason why Because I don't think
14:41
Speaker 11: I need any more, ben and the science tells me
14:43
Speaker 11: that I don't.
14:45
Speaker 2: Rich.
14:46
Speaker 1: Oh, people would be very frustrated hearing this, given Nick
14:49
Speaker 1: Coatesworth encouraged everyone.
14:51
Speaker 2: To get a vaccine.
14:52
Speaker 1: In fact, it was mandated you couldn't go to a
14:54
Speaker 1: cafe with our one. And now he says, I know
14:57
Speaker 1: I haven't had one for.
14:58
Speaker 10: Two years, So find that a bit extraordinary given what
15:03
Speaker 10: he has said in the past and the way he
15:05
Speaker 10: said it so nonchalently. This really surprises me, and it's
15:10
Speaker 10: got to say it disappoints me.
15:12
Speaker 1: What do you think, James, I mean, the advice around
15:14
Speaker 1: vaccines has changed dramatically, and you know what is worrying
15:19
Speaker 1: about this is that the reports are now that the
15:22
Speaker 1: take up rate for regular non COVID vaccines for children
15:26
Speaker 1: is now falling because people have lost confidence in vaccines
15:31
Speaker 1: as a result of the COVID pandemic.
15:35
Speaker 9: And that would be disappointing if that's the case, because
15:38
Speaker 9: I'm someone who believes that people should be vaccinated and
15:41
Speaker 9: should get the JAB, especially children. But what is concerning
15:45
Speaker 9: with what Dr Cosworth said is is that he stopped
15:48
Speaker 9: at three. But he also did say to follow scientific advice.
15:54
Speaker 9: And I'm not a scientist, I'm not a medical professional.
15:57
Speaker 9: I will do what my doctor tells me to do
15:59
Speaker 9: and what the scientists tell me to do, and hopefully
16:02
Speaker 9: they've got my best interest at heart, and I would
16:04
Speaker 9: encourage other people to listen to those people in relation
16:08
Speaker 9: to their own health matters.
16:10
Speaker 1: Well, I have to say the advice has been confusing.
16:12
Speaker 1: Especially Nick Coatesworth was a figure that a lot of
16:15
Speaker 1: people trusted and here he is saying he's only had
16:18
Speaker 1: three James McGrath, Graham Richardson. Great to see you both
16:22
Speaker 1: this evening and thanks for your time. Now coming up,
16:24
Speaker 1: I'll be joined by the former Labor minister who is
16:27
Speaker 1: now urging the Prime Minister to preference the Greens. Last,
16:32
Speaker 1: why won't Albanezi say that he's going to do this?
16:35
Speaker 1: Stay tuned after the break, Welcome back.
16:42
Speaker 9: Well.
16:42
Speaker 1: The alban Ezy government today announced an extra ten million
16:46
Speaker 1: dollars for Gaza, on top of the sixty two million
16:50
Speaker 1: dollars it has already given since October seven since the
16:55
Speaker 1: terror attacks on October seven, sixty two million, and none
16:58
Speaker 1: of it to Israel.
17:00
Speaker 2: Foreign Minister Pennywong.
17:01
Speaker 1: Has this week refused as well to celebrate the brave
17:05
Speaker 1: rescue of four Jewish hostages from the grips of Hamas terrorists,
17:11
Speaker 1: and Labour shut down debate on a judicial inquiry into
17:15
Speaker 1: anti Semitism on university campuses twenty four hours after the
17:20
Speaker 1: Prime Minister himself claimed to care about the issue in
17:24
Speaker 1: Question Time. Now, part of the reason for Labour's moral
17:28
Speaker 1: confusion is pure politics.
17:31
Speaker 2: Labor is under threat from the.
17:33
Speaker 1: Greens in inner city areas of Sydney and Melbourne, and
17:36
Speaker 1: now it's under threat from the rise of Muslim independent
17:40
Speaker 1: candidates in Southwest Sydney. It's something Peter Dutton referred to
17:45
Speaker 1: when I interviewed him ten days ago.
17:47
Speaker 3: Even though the first term government hasn't lost since nineteen
17:50
Speaker 3: thirty one, that the best outcome from a Labor Party
17:53
Speaker 3: perspective is that they could form a minority government which
17:57
Speaker 3: would include the Greens and the Teals and potentially, as
18:01
Speaker 3: you say, Muslim independent candidates from Western Sydney or perhaps elsewhere.
18:07
Speaker 2: Now.
18:08
Speaker 1: The excellent journalist at The Australian, Alexei Dimitriadi, reports today
18:13
Speaker 1: that community leader with Sam Shakawi is mobilizing the Muslim
18:17
Speaker 1: vote across Keys Southwest Sydney federal seats to topple Labor
18:21
Speaker 1: at the next election, as prominent figures won the alp
18:25
Speaker 1: of electoral abandonment. He writes that although Sheik Shikawi campaign
18:30
Speaker 1: may not run candidates, several pro Palestine independents will run
18:35
Speaker 1: as viable protest votes and likely would be.
18:38
Speaker 2: Endorsed by it.
18:40
Speaker 5: Now.
18:40
Speaker 1: The Labor and PAS under threat include Andrew Charlton in Parramatta,
18:44
Speaker 1: Tony Burke and Watson, Jason Clare in Blacksland, An Stanley
18:48
Speaker 1: in Werrowa and the new South Wales Premier Chris Mints.
18:53
Speaker 1: And the Vote for Palestine group is planning a rally
18:55
Speaker 1: outside of Tony Burke's office this Saturday. In an Instagram post,
19:00
Speaker 1: they've said to Tony Burke in twenty twenty.
19:02
Speaker 2: Five, we will vote you out well. Shakhawi said on
19:07
Speaker 2: social media.
19:08
Speaker 1: That we are grassroots, mobilizing, funded and coming for your seats.
19:14
Speaker 1: And he also wrote on Instagram that he was mobilizing
19:17
Speaker 1: for the federal election with a video taken outside of
19:22
Speaker 1: our regular guest Labor and P Andrew Charton's office. Have
19:26
Speaker 1: a look at these two clips that he's posted on
19:29
Speaker 1: his Instagram page.
19:33
Speaker 12: Need people who can echo the voices of the Palestinians
19:37
Speaker 12: who are being decimated and subject to genocide. We need
19:42
Speaker 12: people to come out. We need people to echo their voices.
19:46
Speaker 12: We don't need people to work behind the scenes. We
19:49
Speaker 12: don't want a seat at the table. We want you
19:52
Speaker 12: to speak out. We want you to be opened, We
19:55
Speaker 12: want you to lobby. We want you to speak on
19:57
Speaker 12: behalf of your constituents, which you promise to speak on
20:00
Speaker 12: behalf of. To some of these politicians, the facts don't matter.
20:05
Speaker 12: We've said it before and we'll say it again. The
20:08
Speaker 12: definitions of genocide don't matter. The definitions of apartheip don't matter.
20:14
Speaker 12: The definitions of ethnic cleansing don't matter.
20:17
Speaker 13: They only understand one language, and that's votes, and that's power,
20:20
Speaker 13: and that's people power. That's the only language that they understand.
20:24
Speaker 13: Are we going to let them hear our voice the date,
20:28
Speaker 13: not a single not a single major MP of government,
20:34
Speaker 13: both state and federal, has said the words Israel and
20:40
Speaker 13: condemn in the same breath.
20:45
Speaker 5: Well.
20:45
Speaker 1: The political pressure in areas of Southwest and Western Sydney
20:49
Speaker 1: are thanks to the changing demographics and this is part
20:52
Speaker 1: of the reason labor at a federal level is so
20:56
Speaker 1: anti Israel. It needs to hold on to Western Sydney,
21:00
Speaker 1: needs for the Prime Minister himself.
21:02
Speaker 2: To remain in the top job.
21:05
Speaker 1: But this is putting politics and self interest above the
21:08
Speaker 1: national security interest. It's putting politics above the need for
21:13
Speaker 1: the law to be upheld on our streets, and it's
21:16
Speaker 1: putting politics ahead of the need for social cohesion, for
21:21
Speaker 1: an end to anti Semitism, and for a safe environment
21:25
Speaker 1: for all Australians.
21:26
Speaker 2: Including Jews, to live and grow up in.
21:34
Speaker 1: All right, let's bring in tonight my special guest, former
21:37
Speaker 1: Federal Labor Minister Mike Kelly. Mike, thank you very much
21:41
Speaker 1: for joining me tonight. It's wonderful to have you with us.
21:44
Speaker 1: Look what's your reaction sure to this what we've just seen,
21:48
Speaker 1: this new political pressure on labor and how this is
21:51
Speaker 1: influencing Australia's foreign policy and even our national security.
21:58
Speaker 14: Well, look, I think it's possible for any one person
22:01
Speaker 14: to claim they're representing the entire Muslim community in Australia.
22:05
Speaker 14: It's an incredibly diverse community with very differing views, and
22:10
Speaker 14: I know most of them. The number one priority is
22:12
Speaker 14: putting food on the table, getting jobs, education for their kids,
22:16
Speaker 14: and the Middle East is very far from their thoughts
22:19
Speaker 14: for most occasions. A lot of them aren't even from
22:21
Speaker 14: the region, of course, so you know, I wouldn't take
22:24
Speaker 14: them seriously as claiming to speak for the Muslims of Australia.
22:28
Speaker 14: But of course at least they're talking about working within
22:31
Speaker 14: a democracy, which is something that doesn't exist throughout the
22:35
Speaker 14: entire Middle East other than in Israel, so perhaps they've
22:39
Speaker 14: learned something. But the other side of this coin, too
22:42
Speaker 14: is to misunderstand the huge subterranean feelings amongst the Australian
22:47
Speaker 14: community about Islamistic extremism. Frankly, you know, we've been on
22:52
Speaker 14: the receiving end of it in Bali and the World
22:54
Speaker 14: Trade Center in London and Barcelona, so a lot of
22:58
Speaker 14: Australians understand perfect what that threat is.
23:01
Speaker 6: And I think the.
23:02
Speaker 14: European elections just recently show where the sentiments of people
23:07
Speaker 14: are in that respect, and it was also reflected even
23:10
Speaker 14: in the Eurovision votes. So to ignore that va subterranean
23:14
Speaker 14: sentiment in the Australian community is to not understand the
23:17
Speaker 14: political dynamics of Australian's security concerns and our domestic desire
23:23
Speaker 14: for social cohesion and adherence to the rule of law.
23:28
Speaker 1: Such a good point, because I agree with you mainstream
23:31
Speaker 1: Australians are sick of the lawlessness that we've seen that
23:35
Speaker 1: we're seeing the vandalism, the hate speech and basically very
23:39
Speaker 1: few if any.
23:40
Speaker 2: Arrests over it.
23:41
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, Mike, I mean you were part
23:43
Speaker 1: of the Labor Party. I have other people on here,
23:46
Speaker 1: like Michael Danby who also were part of Federal Labor.
23:51
Speaker 1: But it's changed so much in its attitude towards Israel.
23:55
Speaker 1: Do you think this is a reflection on the politics
23:58
Speaker 1: of marginal seats or do you think it's more the
24:02
Speaker 1: figures of Anthony Albanesi and Pennywong coming from the socialist
24:06
Speaker 1: left and the beliefs that they've held over a lifetime.
24:11
Speaker 14: Well, certainly the Middle East issue has been a plaything
24:15
Speaker 14: of the factions in the past without really any knowledge
24:19
Speaker 14: significantly existing on the side of that debate. Most of
24:23
Speaker 14: the time. It's just not simply a matter of putting
24:26
Speaker 14: on a kafir and becoming a geopolitical or international law
24:30
Speaker 14: or laws of conflict expert, but it's just simply was
24:35
Speaker 14: previously one of those factional game playing issues which have
24:39
Speaker 14: delineated the two factions. Of course, these days it's more
24:44
Speaker 14: a question of looking at each individual MP and what
24:46
Speaker 14: their opinions and attitudes are. But there's been of course
24:51
Speaker 14: a massive campaign of emailing these MPs, and of course
24:55
Speaker 14: the horrendous and vile disobeying of the law through the
25:01
Speaker 14: vandalism that we've seen, the boycotting and blockading of MP's officers.
25:06
Speaker 14: They're interfering with the democratic process in this respect. And
25:10
Speaker 14: the thing is that these demonstrators, they're not the lovely,
25:16
Speaker 14: huggable sort of peace activists of the Summer of Love
25:19
Speaker 14: and the sixties. This is the winter of hate. What
25:21
Speaker 14: they're advocating is actually an escalation of the war. They
25:24
Speaker 14: want to eliminate the state of Israel and see a
25:28
Speaker 14: genocide happen of the Jewish community there, and promoting so
25:34
Speaker 14: called resistance but really just violence. And they're legitimizing and
25:39
Speaker 14: the Greens and promoting this Hamas propaganda and commentators who
25:44
Speaker 14: do this are legitimizing violence not only against Israel, but
25:49
Speaker 14: against Jews in general, because, as we well know, the
25:52
Speaker 14: Hamas Covenant designates all Jews to be killed and that's
25:56
Speaker 14: what they showed us they wanted to do and would
25:58
Speaker 14: do given the opportunity.
25:59
Speaker 6: On the of October.
26:01
Speaker 1: Well, indeed, and actually we've just seen in the Wall
26:04
Speaker 1: Street Journal comments from the Hamas leader, from Jaha Sinwa,
26:09
Speaker 1: and they show that the terrorist organization is using civilian
26:13
Speaker 1: casualties as part of their strategy to.
26:16
Speaker 2: Win the war with Israel.
26:18
Speaker 1: In one message that was released, they call them and
26:21
Speaker 1: I quote, necessary sacrifices. And the Wall Street Journals reporting
26:25
Speaker 1: that in an April eleventh letter to Hamas political leader
26:29
Speaker 1: is Mael Honeyeer, after three of his adult sons were
26:32
Speaker 1: killed by an Israeli air strike, Sinhwa wrote that their
26:36
Speaker 1: deaths and those of other Palestinians would infuse life into
26:41
Speaker 1: the veins of this nation, prompting it to rise to
26:44
Speaker 1: its glory and honor. But Mike Kelly, again, this isn't
26:48
Speaker 1: reflected in the political debate. We hear every day criticism,
26:53
Speaker 1: condemnation from Penny Wang and often from Anthony Albanizi about Israel,
26:58
Speaker 1: and you know, there's no recognition, of very little recognition
27:02
Speaker 1: that actually it's Harmas that is using human shields, that's
27:07
Speaker 1: embedding their weapons in civilian sites and infrastructure, and that
27:12
Speaker 1: was holding hostages in the middle of a refuge e cap.
27:18
Speaker 14: These are their standard tactics, and I've seen it all
27:21
Speaker 14: before during my year long service in Iraq during that
27:24
Speaker 14: war and then dealing subsequently with the ISIS threat and
27:28
Speaker 14: the horrendous activities they conducted, and knowing that to eliminate
27:33
Speaker 14: them and liberate iraqis The Siege of Moses, for example,
27:38
Speaker 14: was exactly this scale of urban conflict, producing exactly the same,
27:43
Speaker 14: really unfortunate and tragic destruction and damage and loss of life,
27:48
Speaker 14: because that's the only choice you have left to you
27:50
Speaker 14: when you're dealing with an evil of this scope and dimension.
27:53
Speaker 14: But to tell you the truth, Hamas has really exceeded
27:56
Speaker 14: anything I saw from ISIS or l Caada in Iraq.
27:59
Speaker 7: Wow.
28:00
Speaker 14: Their systematic rape and their gratuitous and sadistic sexual mutilation
28:06
Speaker 14: conducted on a massive scale, is nothing that I've ever
28:09
Speaker 14: seen before. And the depths to which they have plum
28:15
Speaker 14: really means that we do as you say, I mean,
28:18
Speaker 14: we do have to recognize that this was a war
28:20
Speaker 14: of aggression launched by Hamas. Now that is an international
28:24
Speaker 14: war crime. If they were a state, they would have
28:26
Speaker 14: been held accountable for that, but of course it's actually
28:28
Speaker 14: a Ran that's pulling their strings, so we should be
28:31
Speaker 14: taking Iran to the International Criminal Court. But in any event,
28:36
Speaker 14: they have complete agency in this conflict, and so the
28:40
Speaker 14: pressure and the international voice of unity should be to
28:46
Speaker 14: direct and demand that Hamas end this fighting, end their aggression,
28:51
Speaker 14: release the hostages, and allow the free flow of relief
28:55
Speaker 14: to the Gazans because they've been hoarding and stealing it
28:59
Speaker 14: and selling it on the black market and interfering with
29:02
Speaker 14: it because of the combat activities they conduct against the IDF.
29:06
Speaker 14: So the walk it end right now as we speak
29:09
Speaker 14: if her Maas laid down their weapons, and that's where
29:11
Speaker 14: the pressure should be applied.
29:12
Speaker 2: Absolutely completely agree Mike Kelly.
29:15
Speaker 1: Do you know it is so refreshing to hear a
29:17
Speaker 1: labor figure speak with such clarity. If only you were
29:22
Speaker 1: still in the federal government, if only Michael Danby was,
29:25
Speaker 1: and the late Kimberly Kitching, I think we wouldn't be
29:28
Speaker 1: seeing the levels of anti Semitism that we are at
29:31
Speaker 1: the moment. That strength is certainly missing. Thank you very
29:35
Speaker 1: much for your insights and intelligence here tonight. Now let's
29:40
Speaker 1: return to or let's talk about orcus. This is the
29:44
Speaker 1: key method with which we can protect ourselves should there
29:48
Speaker 1: be Chinese aggression.
29:50
Speaker 2: Now incint estimates.
29:52
Speaker 1: Today it was revealed that WA Labor Premier Roger Cook
29:55
Speaker 1: had only met with the Director General of the Australian
29:59
Speaker 1: Submarine Agency twice amid infrastructure concerns.
30:02
Speaker 2: Have a look at this.
30:05
Speaker 15: You're saying that you'd had what is it eighteen or
30:07
Speaker 15: sixteen or eighteen meetings with the I think that was
30:10
Speaker 15: a few So that was with Premier mill and Marsus
30:13
Speaker 15: have you met with How many times have you met
30:15
Speaker 15: with the WA premier?
30:16
Speaker 6: So I've met twice. I think Anmiral Buckley has met.
30:20
Speaker 6: I've not met with the Premier.
30:22
Speaker 1: Center those comments last week, not today, I should have
30:26
Speaker 1: clarified now. This comes as representatives from the US have
30:30
Speaker 1: already raised concerns about just how prepared Australia is for August,
30:35
Speaker 1: particularly the infrastructure needed and the HMAS Sterling vicinity. Or
30:40
Speaker 1: to discuss this, let's bring in now Shadow Defense Minister
30:43
Speaker 1: Andrew Hasty. Andrew, thank you for your time. Look what
30:47
Speaker 1: has concerned you about what unfolded in Senate estimates there
30:51
Speaker 1: last week?
30:54
Speaker 6: There are a number of things sharing which concern me.
30:56
Speaker 16: The first is the lack of commitment from the way
31:00
Speaker 16: state government to deliver ucas on time. As your viewers
31:04
Speaker 16: would know, from twenty twenty seven, there'll be a base
31:08
Speaker 16: Submarine Rotational Force West out in Perth which will host
31:11
Speaker 16: up to four nuclear submarines, three from the US one
31:14
Speaker 16: from the UK. We've got two years to get that ready.
31:16
Speaker 16: What we learn in estimates is that we're behind on
31:19
Speaker 16: schedule with the building of the infrastructure. And we've also
31:22
Speaker 16: uncovered that Premier Cook, the WA Premier.
31:27
Speaker 6: Is not serious.
31:28
Speaker 16: He's only met twice in fact, with Jonathan Mead, the
31:32
Speaker 16: Admiral who heads up the Australian Submarine Agency, whereas if
31:35
Speaker 16: you compare that to Premier Malinowskis since South Australia he's
31:39
Speaker 16: met sixteen times.
31:40
Speaker 6: So there's a lack of drive and AUCAS is a
31:42
Speaker 6: national mission.
31:44
Speaker 16: All local governments, all state governments and the federal government
31:47
Speaker 16: has to be driving hard to make this happen in
31:50
Speaker 16: twenty twenty seven and then by the start of the
31:53
Speaker 16: next decade when we get our first Virginia class submarines.
31:55
Speaker 1: And just how concerned do you think that the US
32:00
Speaker 1: is over the pace that Australia is moving.
32:05
Speaker 6: Well.
32:06
Speaker 16: I've had plenty of feedback from the US and the UK.
32:10
Speaker 16: There is an ambivalence about August, particularly in Western Australia
32:14
Speaker 16: from the state government, and I think Richard Miles and
32:17
Speaker 16: the Prime Minister needs to be doing more to drive this.
32:20
Speaker 16: Premier melanowskis, I've got to give credit to him his
32:24
Speaker 16: mission focused. He said a couple of weeks ago in
32:26
Speaker 16: Canberra that UCAS is a single mission for the six states,
32:31
Speaker 16: that they all should be working to deliver it, along
32:33
Speaker 16: with the leadership of the federal government. And I think
32:35
Speaker 16: that's the message that we need to take going forward.
32:38
Speaker 16: So there is concerns and we've also uncovered last week
32:41
Speaker 16: that there's an offshore wind farm. Well we know the
32:43
Speaker 16: offshore wind farm is being proposed by Chris Bowen off
32:46
Speaker 16: the coast of Wa, eight thousand square kilometers in fact,
32:49
Speaker 16: just to.
32:50
Speaker 6: The south of the base, which is also a problem.
32:53
Speaker 1: All right, Well, keep coming back to that topic because
32:56
Speaker 1: it is incredibly important. Nothing more important for our national
32:59
Speaker 1: secure right now than ocus. But I want to ask
33:02
Speaker 1: you about Chinese premier's upcoming visit. Of course, the Prime
33:05
Speaker 1: Minister announced.
33:06
Speaker 2: That just yesterday.
33:08
Speaker 1: Do you expect Albanesi will address the problems that exist
33:12
Speaker 1: with the aggression we've seen from Beijing, not just in
33:15
Speaker 1: the South China Sea, but to our navy divers, to
33:18
Speaker 1: our recent fighter pilot jets. Do you expect Albanzi will
33:22
Speaker 1: actually raise these things that he has failed to do
33:26
Speaker 1: so far at any sort of ministerial level.
33:32
Speaker 6: That's right. I think it definitely should be on the table.
33:35
Speaker 16: In any relationship, there has to be boundaries, and the
33:38
Speaker 16: Chinese military has breached a number of boundaries over the
33:41
Speaker 16: last year. We saw last year our navy divers experience
33:44
Speaker 16: a sonar attacked whilst unt the water from a Chinese destroyer,
33:47
Speaker 16: and just recently we saw a Chinese fighter fire flares
33:50
Speaker 16: at a Royal Australian Navy Seahawk, which was very, very
33:54
Speaker 16: high risk behavior in both instances, and the government failed
33:57
Speaker 16: to raise this at the appropriate levels. Anthony Albanzi had
33:59
Speaker 16: an opportunity last year to raise it with President g
34:02
Speaker 16: he didn't, and so I think this is a perfect
34:05
Speaker 16: opportunity to do that, and also to raise outstanding cases
34:08
Speaker 16: Young Jen Hung, who's still being held by the Chinese government.
34:13
Speaker 6: There are plenty of things that we can raise.
34:15
Speaker 16: Even while we talk about our trade relationship, which is important.
34:18
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, we still have an Australian imprisoned in China.
34:22
Speaker 2: We can't forget that.
34:23
Speaker 1: Just lastly, before you go, the Prime Minister, in his
34:26
Speaker 1: press conference late yesterday was asked whether he'd follow our
34:30
Speaker 1: other like minded allies, the US and UK and take
34:34
Speaker 1: action against TikTok.
34:36
Speaker 2: Well, have a look at his response.
34:39
Speaker 17: US and kind the governments are both considering in terms
34:43
Speaker 17: of TikTok potentially fanning they.
34:46
Speaker 7: Sight serious concerns about democracy.
34:49
Speaker 17: Is our intelligence the same He's so worrying we're going
34:52
Speaker 17: down the same path.
34:54
Speaker 7: And if we're not, why not?
34:57
Speaker 8: Well, I'm surprised you asked me to to reveal what
35:01
Speaker 8: our intelligence should be at a press conferences. Well, our
35:06
Speaker 8: position hasn't changed.
35:09
Speaker 1: Next question, Andrew, I mean, he didn't even seriously consider
35:13
Speaker 1: the question, and it is a reasonable question given the
35:16
Speaker 1: action that is being taken by UK and the US.
35:22
Speaker 16: Precisely, I think it was a weak answer from a
35:25
Speaker 16: week Prime minister, particularly when it comes to national security matters.
35:29
Speaker 16: It's very clear that TikTok has a very close relationship
35:32
Speaker 16: with the Chinese government.
35:33
Speaker 6: There's a reason why the US is banning it.
35:35
Speaker 16: And we know already that the Australian government won't allow
35:39
Speaker 16: TikTok to be installed on Australian government phones. So there
35:43
Speaker 16: is a problem there, and we need to think about
35:46
Speaker 16: how we're going to protect the data of young Australians
35:48
Speaker 16: which will be harvested by TikTok and potentially end up
35:51
Speaker 16: in the hands of the Chinese government. So these are
35:55
Speaker 16: really important questions and I think that was just a
35:57
Speaker 16: very offhand and weak response from Prime Minister.
36:00
Speaker 1: He didn't even take the question seriously. All right, Andrew Hasty,
36:03
Speaker 1: thank you very much for joining us this evening. Now
36:06
Speaker 1: coming up, the man behind the Paris Agreement says the
36:09
Speaker 1: future coalition government will not be kicked out of the
36:12
Speaker 1: international treaty. My political Panel would join me to debate
36:16
Speaker 1: the twenty thirty target after the break. Welcome back with
36:24
Speaker 1: the man who drafted the Paris Agreement has said that
36:27
Speaker 1: a future coalition government would not be pushed out of
36:30
Speaker 1: the accord if it endorsed a lower twenty thirty emissions
36:34
Speaker 1: reduction target. Let's bring it now Tonight's Political Panel, National
36:38
Speaker 1: Senate Leader Bridget McKenzie and Labor and.
36:40
Speaker 2: P Daniel Melino. Welcome to you both.
36:44
Speaker 1: Bridget what's the thinking here. Do you think there is
36:48
Speaker 1: going to be continued pressure on the opposition leader to
36:51
Speaker 1: say what is twenty thirty target would be prior to
36:53
Speaker 1: the election?
36:56
Speaker 7: Well, that shouldn't be.
36:57
Speaker 17: This is simply the Labor Party attempting a scare campaign.
37:01
Speaker 17: The reality is the Labor Party set a twenty thirty
37:05
Speaker 17: target that they can't meet and in the middle of
37:08
Speaker 17: a cost of living crisis, Australians are absolutely sick of
37:12
Speaker 17: a federal government who can't get the story straight. I've
37:17
Speaker 17: been out tonight here in Woodonga meeting with locals who
37:21
Speaker 17: are having renewable projects rolled out through their communities, through
37:26
Speaker 17: their own properties, and they've got no recourse.
37:29
Speaker 7: Here in Victoria thanks to the state Labor government.
37:31
Speaker 17: So this is about having a pathway to net zero
37:35
Speaker 17: that is credible, that is based on science and technology.
37:39
Speaker 7: And that Australians can have confidence in will get us there.
37:43
Speaker 17: Right now under Anthony Albanizi, with Bowen's plan, we're just
37:47
Speaker 17: trashing the joint prices are going up and we're not
37:51
Speaker 17: even going to meet our mission's target. And I think
37:53
Speaker 17: that's that's a great tragedy and it undermines our credibility
37:57
Speaker 17: as a middle power globally because typically Australia is the
38:01
Speaker 17: country that when we say we're going to do something,
38:04
Speaker 17: we do it. And unfortunately under Olbow that's not going
38:06
Speaker 17: to be the case with the twenty thirty.
38:08
Speaker 1: Target, Daniel as a government and P are you disappointed
38:12
Speaker 1: and concerned that your own government isn't going to meet
38:15
Speaker 1: at this point the targets that it's set of forty
38:18
Speaker 1: two percent by twenty thirty.
38:22
Speaker 18: Well, look, I wouldn't concede that we're not going to
38:24
Speaker 18: meet it, but what I would say is I agree
38:26
Speaker 18: with Bridget that we need to have science based policy making.
38:30
Speaker 18: But after that, I think we differ in that the
38:33
Speaker 18: opposition criticizes the trajectory that we're on, but they're voted
38:37
Speaker 18: consistently against just about every practical measure to bring down emissions,
38:41
Speaker 18: whether it be the safeguard mechanism, whether it be a
38:44
Speaker 18: mission standards for vehicles, where one of the few countries
38:47
Speaker 18: in the world without one, and they're running constant scare
38:50
Speaker 18: campaigns on a whole range of renewables policies. So what
38:53
Speaker 18: I'd like to hear from the opposition is what's their
38:56
Speaker 18: credible strategy to get emissions down? They really have left
39:01
Speaker 18: a massive goals when it comes to their own policy.
39:03
Speaker 18: All they do is criticize our trajectory and yet vote
39:06
Speaker 18: against every single practical measure.
39:08
Speaker 1: Do you both agree that the public right now is
39:11
Speaker 1: worried about cost of living and doesn't want to have
39:13
Speaker 1: this debate about the climate laws again?
39:17
Speaker 17: I know it's like groundhog Day, Shahi, and you know
39:21
Speaker 17: it's too cute by half.
39:22
Speaker 7: Daniel. You guys are in government now.
39:25
Speaker 17: You've set aggressive targets on emission reductions that are cruling
39:29
Speaker 17: our economy, whether it's advanced manufacturing as you send energy
39:34
Speaker 17: prices through the roof, or the private property rights of
39:37
Speaker 17: the communities that I represent out in the regions.
39:40
Speaker 7: On any measure, you've got it wrong.
39:42
Speaker 17: You're more interested in having a fight with the Greens
39:46
Speaker 17: and out greening the Greens in inner City than actually
39:49
Speaker 17: having a credible pathway to twenty fifty. No one else
39:53
Speaker 17: in the world is doing one hundred percent renewables.
39:55
Speaker 7: They all have gas or.
39:58
Speaker 17: Nuclear as part of the firm being power behind their
40:01
Speaker 17: renewable trajectories. So you're just setting us up for a
40:06
Speaker 17: pathway to fail. We're interested in having a credible proposition,
40:11
Speaker 17: and Shari, I think people are absolutely sick of this.
40:13
Speaker 17: We've put this to bed. The Coalition is committed to
40:17
Speaker 17: net zero by twenty fifty.
40:19
Speaker 7: We're on the journey.
40:21
Speaker 17: We're just not doing it for short political gains, all right, which.
40:24
Speaker 7: Is why Labour's targets are over aggressive.
40:27
Speaker 2: All right, let's have a look at the latest Shari.
40:29
Speaker 18: Can I just correct on one quick point? Go for it, Danielle,
40:33
Speaker 18: I'm certainly not trying to outgreen the Greens. Look, I'm
40:35
Speaker 18: in hand to hand combat with the Greens in my
40:37
Speaker 18: seat day and day out on a whole range of issues,
40:39
Speaker 18: including climate.
40:41
Speaker 6: Labor has the middle path here.
40:43
Speaker 18: The Greens have incredibly high and unrealistic and unmodeled strategies,
40:48
Speaker 18: which I've critiqued in a number of ways publicly and
40:52
Speaker 18: in the chamber. Labour has a path that has been
40:57
Speaker 18: endorsed at the last election by the BCA and a
41:00
Speaker 18: range of business interests which they want certainty going forward.
41:03
Speaker 18: So look, Labor is definitely the party that is providing
41:06
Speaker 18: the middle way.
41:07
Speaker 2: All right. Let's move on to interest rates.
41:10
Speaker 1: The ANZ has pulled cold water on the prospector of
41:13
Speaker 1: the RBA cutting.
41:14
Speaker 2: Rates this year.
41:15
Speaker 1: It now looks like the RBA won't reduce interest rates
41:19
Speaker 1: until at least February twenty twenty five, although of course
41:23
Speaker 1: that could change. This is one forecast. Daniel, you follow
41:27
Speaker 1: economics closely, do you agree with this analysis that you
41:31
Speaker 1: know we're looking at either rates staying the same or
41:33
Speaker 1: actually potentially going up this year.
41:38
Speaker 18: So, look, Paul Samuelson is arguably the greatest economists since
41:42
Speaker 18: World War Two, and you know he's somebody as a
41:44
Speaker 18: macroeconomist I look up to.
41:45
Speaker 6: Look.
41:46
Speaker 18: He famously equipped in the nineteen sixties that economists have
41:49
Speaker 18: successfully predicted nine of the last five recessions. And he
41:53
Speaker 18: wasn't having a gratuitous go at his professional colleagues, but
41:56
Speaker 18: really just saying that predicting the macroeconomy is extra reemly difficult.
42:00
Speaker 6: And I think what we're seeing.
42:02
Speaker 18: Here is that as new information comes to hand, some
42:05
Speaker 18: economists are adjusting their models in different ways. I mean,
42:09
Speaker 18: the A and Z has tweaked its model in the
42:11
Speaker 18: way you just referred to.
42:12
Speaker 6: But there are a whole bunch of other.
42:13
Speaker 18: Macroeconomists who think that interest rates need to come down. Look,
42:19
Speaker 18: what I think is being confirmed by the data that's
42:21
Speaker 18: coming out is that the government was right to put
42:23
Speaker 18: well calibrated cost of living in the budget and that
42:26
Speaker 18: in the medium term everybody is expecting inflation to continue
42:29
Speaker 18: to track down.
42:30
Speaker 1: Look, Daniel there referenced, you know, predictions about recessions, but
42:35
Speaker 1: bridget we're not in a technical recession. I mean we've
42:37
Speaker 1: had growth of zero point one percent, but we are
42:40
Speaker 1: in a per capita recession, so it feels the same
42:43
Speaker 1: for a lot of families.
42:46
Speaker 7: That's exactly right, Shahi.
42:49
Speaker 17: You know, Daniel can talk the talking points out of
42:52
Speaker 17: Jim Chalmer's office all he likes. The reality is Australians
42:56
Speaker 17: aren't feeling it, and they're not feeling it because they're
42:59
Speaker 17: mortgage rent payments are going up higher than their wages are,
43:04
Speaker 17: so the household is going backwards and every single month
43:08
Speaker 17: is getting harder and harder to get the school fee
43:12
Speaker 17: bill out of the way.
43:13
Speaker 7: Are the kids going to go, How the swimming lesson's
43:16
Speaker 7: going to be paid for?
43:17
Speaker 5: Etc?
43:18
Speaker 7: Just to keep the roof over their head?
43:20
Speaker 17: And this is coming because labor hasn't got inflation under
43:24
Speaker 17: control and the RBA therefore can't reduce interest rates when
43:28
Speaker 17: we have an inflationary environment like we do at the
43:31
Speaker 17: moment here at home, and it's home grown, thank.
43:34
Speaker 7: You, Jim Chalmers. Is it is the vulnerable that pay
43:38
Speaker 7: the most. It is the poorest in our society that
43:41
Speaker 7: actually feel it the most.
43:43
Speaker 17: And until labor gets their spending under control, these interest
43:47
Speaker 17: rates won't go down and households won't have relief.
43:50
Speaker 1: And this is going to be the predominant issue leading
43:53
Speaker 1: into the next election, no question. Bridget McKenzie Daniel Melino,
43:57
Speaker 1: thank you both very much for your time the break.
44:00
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden, now a convicted felon, he faces present time
44:04
Speaker 1: after being found guilty, and yet the media treatment of
44:08
Speaker 1: him and Donald Trump couldn't be more different. Will cross
44:11
Speaker 1: live to Washington for the latest. Okay, welcome back. Let's
44:19
Speaker 1: bring in now the Australians. Washington Correspondent Adam Crichton, Adam,
44:23
Speaker 1: great to see you.
44:24
Speaker 2: Look, let's get to Hunter Biden in a minute.
44:26
Speaker 1: But I want to get your take first on Marine
44:29
Speaker 1: La Penn and the French EU election.
44:35
Speaker 4: Well, I mean it's not really surprising her support, her
44:37
Speaker 4: party support has been growing.
44:39
Speaker 5: Now for years.
44:39
Speaker 4: Remember she ran for president in twenty seventeen, in twenty
44:43
Speaker 4: twenty two, and her support's been growing each time, and
44:45
Speaker 4: all the forecasts are that she'll probably win in twenty
44:48
Speaker 4: twenty seven. You know, the so called far right parties,
44:51
Speaker 4: the growth of them is a symptom of widespread dissatisfaction
44:55
Speaker 4: with a rampant immigration, with rising prices. And you'd probably
44:59
Speaker 4: also have to say the European case, fear of a
45:01
Speaker 4: war with Russia.
45:03
Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's turn to the big story today, Hunter Biden.
45:06
Speaker 1: This is history making the first child of a sitting
45:09
Speaker 1: president to be convicted of a crime.
45:12
Speaker 2: I'm interested in the different media treatment.
45:14
Speaker 1: Initially, the Hunter Biden laptop story was fake. You know,
45:18
Speaker 1: it was pulled off social media. The established media refused
45:21
Speaker 1: to cover it. You know, most of that he hasn't
45:25
Speaker 1: been prosecuted for or even investigated for. Here this is
45:30
Speaker 1: drug addiction and a gun crime.
45:36
Speaker 4: Yes, well, look certainly, I mean the big takeaway for me,
45:38
Speaker 4: I think the long term impact of this case is really,
45:40
Speaker 4: as you suggest, the verification of that laptop. I mean,
45:43
Speaker 4: this was a censored it was obviously real. The FBI
45:46
Speaker 4: had this laptop. In fact, as you probably know, from
45:48
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen so they knew it was real. I certainly
45:51
Speaker 4: knew it was real, and yet the story from the
45:54
Speaker 4: New York Post was censored in October twenty twenty. That's
45:56
Speaker 4: just extraordinary stuff. And so, you know, the confirmation that
46:00
Speaker 4: that the laptop is real really is extremely embarrassing for
46:03
Speaker 4: most of the mainstream media and of course those famous
46:06
Speaker 4: fifty one intel experts.
46:09
Speaker 1: All of the media, the left media presented the outcome
46:12
Speaker 1: today is our very sad story for the Biden family.
46:16
Speaker 1: You know, many families in America are going through this.
46:20
Speaker 1: But then there was this desperation to get Trump.
46:23
Speaker 2: Is this purely politics?
46:28
Speaker 5: Well, look, I think both.
46:31
Speaker 4: I really think that both men are the subject. I
46:33
Speaker 4: think the victim rather of the weaponization of the justice system. Certainly,
46:36
Speaker 4: in the case of Donald Trump, he saw the Democrat
46:38
Speaker 4: Party hankering for him to be prosecuted. But I think
46:41
Speaker 4: it's also fair to say that the only reason that
46:44
Speaker 4: Hunter Biden was prosecuted was because he's the President's son
46:47
Speaker 4: and there were constant calls from Republicans for him to
46:51
Speaker 4: be prosecuted. I don't think if he was an ordinary
46:53
Speaker 4: Joe blow in the US that he would have been
46:56
Speaker 4: prosecuted for this crime, which, after all, is extremely hard
46:59
Speaker 4: to whether or not someone is taking drugs at the
47:03
Speaker 4: time when they buy a gun.
47:04
Speaker 5: But of course, in the President's son's case, there was so.
47:07
Speaker 4: Much scrutiny of his private life that it was well
47:09
Speaker 4: known that he was so Look, I think it's a
47:12
Speaker 4: pretty sad day for the US, for the US justice system,
47:16
Speaker 4: for both cases. But you know, the irony is that
47:18
Speaker 4: I don't think it's really going to have any effect
47:21
Speaker 4: on the political you know, the political outcomy that for
47:23
Speaker 4: Trump or for the Biden family.
47:25
Speaker 1: I mean, we thought many people expected Trump would be
47:29
Speaker 1: further ahead in the polls by now. The fact that
47:32
Speaker 1: he's not overwhelmingly ahead of Joe Biden, does this show
47:37
Speaker 1: that the criminal cases have had an impact perhaps with
47:40
Speaker 1: undecided voters.
47:44
Speaker 5: Well, look, I think both of them are very weak candidates.
47:46
Speaker 4: I mean, Trump is ahead in the polls, he's ahead
47:48
Speaker 4: in the betting markets, and I think the takeaway, you know,
47:51
Speaker 4: from the hush money case is that it didn't really
47:53
Speaker 4: seem to effect his standing a very much at all.
47:55
Speaker 4: I mean, of course, sentencing hasn't happened yet, that's on
47:57
Speaker 4: the eleventh of July. That could change things. I suppose
48:01
Speaker 4: if he's sent to prison, but he remains ahead. And
48:04
Speaker 4: of course you know from the hush money case, he
48:06
Speaker 4: raised about one hundred million dollars or more for his campaign,
48:09
Speaker 4: so if anything, it may have actually helped him. I mean,
48:11
Speaker 4: I think on the Biden side, I think the tax
48:14
Speaker 4: evasion case, which is going to be heard in California
48:16
Speaker 4: later this year, that could be more politically damaging for
48:19
Speaker 4: Biden because of course in that case you're going to
48:21
Speaker 4: hear more about the extravagant spending, and of course you
48:24
Speaker 4: know there'll be more allegations of corruption in relation to
48:27
Speaker 4: Joe Biden and Hunter Biden's finances and their operations in
48:31
Speaker 4: Ukraine and China when the older Biden.
48:34
Speaker 5: Was vice president. So I think that could be more
48:36
Speaker 5: politically damaging.
48:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, it will not be out of the
48:41
Speaker 1: news for long. Adam Krichton, thank you very much for
48:43
Speaker 1: joining us tonight. Thanks everyone for watching.
48:45
Speaker 2: I'll see you tomorrow at eight pm.
48:47
Speaker 1: And right now, here's Paul Murray