Latest / Generation F Podcast / Episode 12: Grappling with Time
Transcript
- Isaiah: Baby. I'm recording and I can pick up a background noise. We're starting early. Are they on? You're logging in now. Just super sensitive. Can hear you too. Huh. Fuse. What's a fuse? What's up? Maddie: Hey Issa, how are you? Good, I'm good. There's like a little bit of background noise. From my end? Yeah, I think so. I mean I I'll just mute myself unless I'm talking, but I don't I don't know what it would be from. I'm in a different place, obviously. ⁓ I thought the connection would be better because I'm not in a basement. I'm in my room. Isaiah: Good, I'm good. There's like a little bit of background noise. Yeah, I think so. Is hold on. Maddie: Is ⁓ hold on. Yeah, I'm getting like a like an echo. Isaiah: Yeah, I'm getting like a like an echo. Maddie: An echo of your voice? Yeah. How about now? Isaiah: Yeah. Testane one two three. Little bit still. Maddie: Testane one, two, three. A little bit still. ⁓ So see what happens when you mute it. Yeah, hopefully there's not. Isaiah: So see what happens when you mute it. Testing one, two, three. Okay, that doesn't do anything. Yeah, I mean that works, yeah. Maddie: You mean it doesn't fix it or you mean ⁓ it i yeah, it it did fix it. ⁓ okay. Yeah, I can just stay muted. Isaiah: It i yeah, it it did fix it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we'll we'll we'll just kinda go like that. Once Phil signs in, we'll we'll get started. I'll kinda go over the episode since you have to go pretty quickly. I'm I think I'm gonna call it you know, something like struggling for time or wrestling for time, like something time related. If you had a chance to look at that little document, essentially let's see here. Where'd my PDF go? All right. Yeah, so like the biggest question is, you know, how does your generations struggle to make time for God? Right. And what we'll do is when we start out, I'm probably gonna try and record an intro. That way we could just start the show. Like once we're all kind of prayed in and just kinda, you know, relax a little bit. ⁓ I wanna start playing around with like using some kind of like ⁓ AI music to kind of have an intro. That way we don't have to worry worry about having intros and outros. But we have, you know, how's your generation struggle for time? ⁓ for God. Then we're gonna have, you know, I'll probably start with Phil. We'll go based off of his reactions, then I'll have you, and then I'll have myself. ⁓ what's up, Phil? How are ya? phil: Hey, Matty. Isaiah: Yeah, w I was just kinda giving the general lowdown. Maddie's muted because when she's not muted, there's like an echo on my my mic, my earphones. so we'll just kinda signal to her, like point so she can get off of mute. Sh she's only here till eight, so I wanna kinda start the segment between two gens with her first. That way we can just kinda get going. But ⁓ phil: okay. Sounds good. Yeah. I like that. Isaiah: I'm also gonna play around, I was telling Maddie, I'm gonna play around having like an intro, like a rec like a recorded intro. So we're not gonna really have to do much. I might just say, like, you know, welcome to the show, you know, co host, yada yada yada. And then we'll kind of break into it. And Phil, when we're done with the segment, because the the major question is, you know, how does your generation struggle to make time for God? Right. phil: Okay. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaiah: And and how I want this episode to kind of go is ⁓ you know, for like the baby boomer generation, you know, was it difficult to, you know, make time for faith, or was it so culturally normal to have religion that it just was a part of it? But, you know, for you you can kind of comment on maybe, you know, okay, maybe it was socially acceptable or s like a social norm to have religion, but People didn't have a relationship, right? Because it was so it was so Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then between the millennial and the Gen Z, I wanna kinda talk about at least for the millennials we have like ⁓ work, you know, relationships, family, business. Like we we kind of were gifted the issues from the previous generation where we're constantly working, we're constantly working two jobs, we don't have enough time to do anything. phil: Right, right. And that's exactly it. He took all the thunder, baby. That's exactly what it was, Isaiah: ⁓ and then the Gen Z could probably mirror a lot of that same stuff. But I feel one of the things that I've you know, just kind of seen anecdotally is the notion of the technological suppression where it's just there's so much technology embedded in their culture since they were, you know, in fourth or fifth grade, that even though they have the same busyness as the millennial, they're also so so, you know, ⁓ consumed by technology. So it kind of steals their attention, right? ⁓ going into the scripture discussion, I'll just kind of get this out of the way that way we don't have to go back into it. I have Mark 12, ⁓ 41 through 44. It's the widow's offering with the two pennies, right? And when I kind of go into that, Phil, like one of the things that I want to kind of highlight is this notion that, you know, when Jesus saw the widow offer the least in comparison of money, you know, to the offering, you know, basket. And then you had the Pharisees offer out of abundance. You know, she gave the most because it was what she had. Right. So there's this nature that, you know, what is our two pennies, right? What is our minimal that we can give, even though ⁓ it might not seem like a lot, but it's the most that we can give. It it's our two pence, right? And just kind of going into, you know, what that might look like, you know, in in modern day, you know, it it could be something as simple as, Hey, maybe you have five minutes of prayer a day, maybe you can listen to the Bible when you're driving to work, maybe you can listen to a podcast, maybe you can just try and fit something in. And then we can kind of shift to the nature of, Okay, you know, even though that's your minimum, you know, as time progresses and you have priority shifts, then those things do start to grow in and phil: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaiah: The Corinthians nine, twenty seven I have is the spiritual discipline, right? Where Paul's talking about training his body and training him himself for ⁓ you know, just kind of being seen as someone who's preaching the word. But I think we can extra extrapolate on that and just kind of basically talk about listen, it's just like training. When you're training, you don't start out doing the most. You start out maybe walking, maybe you're doing a few things here and there and then momentum builds. phil: Mm-hmm. Isaiah: And you and you start something as simple as, you know, walking once a week to next thing you know, you're running a five K or you're doing whatever. So it's this momentum of faith versus when I was in church, you know, one of the things that was always told to me is like you had to give your whole life to Jesus, right? It was always said you have to give everything over, you have to give everything over. But I think one of the things that wasn't well articulated, and maybe some people can disagree with this, is that's a process. Right. That's not that's not like a once and done thing where okay, ⁓ you follow God now. Now everything is God's. And I think that everything will become God's, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to sell your house. It doesn't mean that you have to, you know, quit your job and do all these different things, because it reverts back to Mark twelve. It's like, what are your two pennies? Like, what are you giving? Right? ⁓ and I want to kinda what are we supposed to say? phil: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaiah: Yeah, maybe just like a discussion of, you know, why do we expect instant spiritual maturity, right? Like, you know, why do we expect to just kind of be this arrived, you know, creature the second we decide to ⁓ practice faith? It's the same thing as a personal training client where they pay for personal training and the next thing you know, like, well, why am I not thirty pounds lighter? You know, why am I not this? So it's just this notion that our physical body and our spiritual body mirror each other. phil: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaiah: Like we we want that instant gratification and a lot of times faith is discouraging and it becomes like a ⁓ a barrier for entry because there isn't that dialogue of the process, right? ⁓ yeah. phil: I love it. I like that part, Isaiah. That really is good. It's a gratification. Can I turn two lights off here, Thanks. Isaiah: Practical challenge instead of asking. How do I give God everything? ⁓ yeah, please. Yeah. And I think just ⁓ I I've written down here a practical challenge. ⁓ instead of asking how do I get how do I give God everything, ask what is one thing I can give God this week, right? Or this day. You know, examples are five minutes of prayer, one chapter of scripture, maybe a devotional, maybe just listening to something while you're driving, you know. Short devotional, like these like ideas is like, okay, like what's the what's the most that I can give within the minimal capacity that I can give? Right. ⁓ and in closing thoughts could be like, you know, you know, God doesn't ask us to start at the finish line, you know, He asks us to be faithful with the time that we have today. So it's just that present nature of faith, it's it's not a past thing, it's not a future thing, it's what are you doing right now? Right. All right, so I'm gonna I'm gonna pray us in and we're gonna get rolling that way. phil: Yeah. Yeah. Isaiah: get some ⁓ some Matty time and then yeah yeah ⁓ so I had I had a lot of ice cream today so I'm kinda wired. Yeah. no it's not a boundary. You know no I just ⁓ yeah it's it's good in moderation. You know, I ⁓ had ⁓ an outing with my team today and we ⁓ just had like a good time so phil: You're out of control. Really? Really? Talk to me about that, dude. Somebody stepped over a boundary. No? Ice cream is good? Isaiah: It was enjoyable but had a long day. ⁓ all right, so what we'll do is I'm gonna pray this in, we're gonna get started. Can be lightly conversational, then I'm gonna kinda go into the between two gens and then we're gonna get going, okay? phil: Sounds good. Isaiah: Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, God, for just allowing us to, you know, be together today and to continue to point others to you. You know, despite our shortcomings and the things that we haven't done this week, that we maybe try to do every week, Lord God, you still you still keep us under your wing. You still want us to get to know you more every day. You know, there's so many things that we're trying to accomplish with this, but we're not in control. I ask, Lord Jesus, that you just give us the spirit of truth to just say things that will reach one person's heart. Just one person, Lord God. That's all we ask for. If one person is two, so be it. But give us that one person that just is listening and is going to receive this message and it's going to do something for them that maybe you planted a seed in their life and this is going to water it. Or maybe this is going to plant a seed and someone else will water it. Just give us the words to say, give us the understanding and the clarity in the speech to speak clearly and concisely, so that way we don't fumble over our words and we just continue to honor what you've called us to do. In your holy name we pray. Amen. All right. Welcome to the show. My name is Isaiah. I am the host of Generation F podcast. I have today with me our co-host, Maddie and Phil. And today we are going to ⁓ you know talk a little bit about finding time for God or finding time for faith. This is something that I find is really important in today's climate, especially after my last podcast ⁓ with Jace. There was a clear distinction between the younger generations, mostly, you know, Gen Z and obviously millennials as well, where we're fighting for time to spend to further our faith or understanding. And sometimes we don't understand how do we ⁓ how do we make time to pursue faith? And this can be something that maybe a lot of people don't necessarily talk about, but We wanna have the dialogue today. We're gonna break out with our our segment first this week, our between two gens segment, just because Maddie has to leave w leave us shortly and we wanna make sure that we get the most out of our time together. You know, so I'm gonna ask the question, ⁓ you know, how does your generation struggle to make time for God or faith? You know, Phil, if you wouldn't mind leading us with that statement, you can take it wherever you'd like, but More so in a nature with ⁓ you know, how did your generation develop habits to ⁓ pursue faith amongst busy lives and raising a family and all the things growing up? phil: Yeah. I remember ⁓ church going or God people early on, it was definitely more the norm. It was definitely something that was culturally acceptable. ⁓ was much more than ⁓ just, you know, it was the norm. There was a lot of people that were doing it too, as far as ⁓ not just church going, but the God thing. ⁓ And so you weren't fighting against prejudice. You weren't fighting against other things. was just it's just what everybody did or most people did. ⁓ And we were allowed to develop ⁓ what what I called faith at the time. And it was faith. was it was a faith in God. But I think lacked a few. Important ingredients, and I think some of those were Isaiah, talked about it before relationship. ⁓ we were taught about God, we were taught what to do for God, and not really how to have a relationship with Jesus and taking that to the next step. ⁓ So we were, I think, our terminations of a good person or a good Christian or somebody that followed God definitely had ⁓ the definition was, I did this for God or I did that for God, so I must be good. And that was just my, that was one of my experiences. And it lacked that key ingredient of relationship. ⁓ And I definitely, ⁓ as I got older, ⁓ started to see some of the effects of that, where there was not a real closeness, even in my prayer life, you know, was, tried to follow some patterns there, but there were It was definitely minus that relationship and the abide that it talks about in the book of John abide in me and I'll abide in you. A closeness I didn't have early on and I think that was some of it was a result of the church and the understanding of faith what that meant. Isaiah: Yeah, thank you. Do you feel as if that was caused because of how widespread faith was? You know, the fact that everyone just kind of assumed that you had some kind of religious practice and there wasn't any you know, there wasn't phil: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, I can't really can't stress that enough because it's not like that today. And this is only, you know. 30, 40, 50 years ago only. But it's definitely changed. But then it was the norm. It's what you did. Sunday mornings were devoted to God, and there was other parts of that as well too. But it was definitely the norm. Yeah. Isaiah: Yeah, thank you. ⁓ you know, and Maddie, representing the Gen Z ⁓ generation, you know, what do you feel were some of your maybe distractions or obstacles? Just trying to find time to question religion or just even get into a spiritual practice. Maddie: I think a big distraction is, like you said, the technology, specifically social media. I think I struggle with that. And I can imagine that many others who are in my same age group would struggle as well. Because we do have this constant technology. You know, the phones are always on us and there is just such a I don't know what to call it. I guess just like this feeling that you need to share your whole life online and it makes it hard to be present. I think that's like an entirely different conversation. But as a result of that, it can be really difficult to then be present with God. I mean, I know for myself if I make if I make my time for prayer in the morning, I know my phone is still blowing up. I'm still getting those vibrations in my pocket and I'm like, dang, I'm trying to have this moment alone with God, but it can really be distracting. I think maybe another layer that would be interesting to add to it is also that there is, you know, such a such a change and I guess the religion that is popularized. And maybe it's not necessarily a religion, but with the new age, there are a lot of ⁓ discussions amongst my age group about. you heal yourself or the universe or manifestation. And I think that because of social media, these ideas and concepts are so much more widespread. So even if you did grow up with a faith background and even if you did grow up going to church with your family, kind of like the way that Phil described, now you have this constant thing that's like, but wait, what about this? Is this what I should be doing? Is God even real? And I think a lot of people come to a conclusion that maybe he's not and that maybe these new age things are better. And so I think that adds another layer of complexity to it because most I could say most ⁓ most women my age that I would talk to don't believe that there's a God. They might have an atheistic view or they might believe in other things. And so it can be difficult as well because there's less cultural I don't want to say like it's pressure isn't the right word. But do you know what I'm trying to say? Like there's less of like a a thing that kind of keeps you on the path, on top of the technology. Isaiah: Yeah, th that's like a really interesting ⁓ distinction that you said with the the pressure and I and I think it's it's it becomes socially taboo to have we know religion because especially with the millennial and the Gen Z being so intertwined with technology, we're expected to kind of fix everything ourselves, you know, especially coming from our parents being baby boomers ⁓ or Gen X. We weren't really given the practice of faith. Maybe we were given the practice of religion or tradition, where we were just kind of expected to attend, you know, a church service or do these things around the holidays. But nothing really gave us a sense of ownership over our own faith where everything was just kind of follow along until we had to question things on our own. And then when we started to question things, we were given these ideas like New Age practice or just kind of ⁓ self-fulfillment or self-progress where we ⁓ were intended to were expected to just resolve things on our own or or find the meaning of the universe on our own accord. You know, growing up as a millennial, you know, one of the things that you know I kind of experienced I'm almost like this tweener between you know, Gen X and and Gen Z where ⁓ I was raised in a traditional way, but I also hit technology pretty early, you know, like I didn't really have a smartphone until maybe I was out of high school, but you know, I had a phone pretty early on. So there was this idea that there was always this kind of developing distraction. There was things as simple as, you know, video games or just binge watching television or doing all these things that created this this divide between free time and consuming, right? I feel like we were the generation of consumers, where the Gen Z is a generation of producers, where they wanted to be the influencer, they wanted to produce content and do all these different things, while we were just ravenously watching and obtaining information because we were trying to figure out where we kind of fit in society. You know, Phil, do you have any comments on those? phil: Yeah, and ⁓ I don't know, just listening to both you talk, ⁓ there's like one common denominator that I'm hearing, at least from my perspective, my generation too, ⁓ always something conspiring to pull us away from a true faith, always something conspiring to pull us away from what God really desires from us. And that's this relationship, you know? And I think each generation had different nuance to it. Each generation struggled with a different perspective. But the amount that it all came down to, it was a difficult thing to have the proper perspective on God and faith in God. And we've all struggled through that and wrestled through it. And I think that's a good thing. But I think each one of us are coming at it from different perspectives that our generation carried with it, too. And that's kind of a, I don't know, I kind of think that's a neat thing. It's like, you know, if. God says he's a rewarder of those who seek after him and he's going to reward that and some of that's tied up into our faith too. So I kind of see the similarities even though we're different generations there's a similarity in the struggle there. Isaiah: Yeah, I think the similarity is in the distraction where maybe in older generations the distraction was this false sense of security that you had religion, you had faith, you were trad you were traditional, you were conservative, you just kind of did the Christmases and the Easters and checked the boxes. And then as you kind of gr you know, grow into the other generations, when that dissipates, now the distraction is, okay, well, you don't need any of these things. phil: Mm-hmm. Isaiah: Here's some new ideas to kind of mull over. ⁓ here's the things that are gonna take your attention from you. And now you don't have any time to do anything, right? Maybe, you know, for the millennials and Gen Z really kind of shares the same issue, especially, you know, as they go into the workforce where most millennials and Gen Z alike are working two jobs, they have side gigs, they have all these things that they have to compete against just to kind of make ends meet. And maybe they they don't, maybe they have a good financial standing because they got a great degree or they have all these other situations that kind of preserved their life, but then they have a lot of distractions in terms of fame where maybe they're, you know, insta famous or they have a YouTube channel or they have all these things that still kind of combat their full time attention. Right. No, when we had the last podcast with Jace, that was a bonus episode. You know, he said something really interesting. He said that ⁓ the phone raised him, right? That was something that he said that I really never really thought of because I grew up with technology and and technology is synonymous with my existence because I remember my life being technologically intertwined longer than I remember playing outside until it got dark, right? I still have those memories too, but you know, maybe that's stopped when I was in middle school or high school when things start to really kind of rev up technologically. But Maddie, you know, with that same idea of technology raising you, you know, how d how do you feel that kind of changed your perspective, you know, on reality and and how you would manage time and just kind of allocate time to to any type of self improvement or even just make enough time to do something as I I don't wanna say ⁓ you know, revealing, but something as exposing as a a spiritual practice like ⁓ believing in God. Maddie: If I think back to when I first, you know, became when when social media first became a thing, you know, it's interesting because I was never really interested in technology before that. I remember I think in fourth grade I had gotten an iPod touch and that was like the first, you know, that was like the first one where it was digital with the screen. And I remember thinking, what am I supposed to do with this? And so that shows you, you know, where my mindset was at the time. I was focused on being a kid and playing and doing things. And ⁓ I think that that slowly took me away, especially as I got older, especially as I entered the adolescent years. Social media was accessible from this screen. And once that was accessible, once I knew that all my friends were doing that, that's what interested me. And adolescence is such a critical time because usually you are trying to figure out who you are. You're usually trying to fit in with your peers. So just like everybody else, I feel like I got very swept up in that. And I think it drastically altered, you know, how much time I could have spent on things that were more fulfilling, including a spiritual journey. ⁓ at some point around that age as well, you know, my family stopped going to church together. So I didn't have that spiritual support anymore. And I mean, looking back now, I can kind of see how things just went downhill from there. I think that the external support, you know, would have been very helpful, but I didn't really have any faith role models in my life at the time. And so I yeah, it kind of just led me down ⁓ a negative path, I would say. Did I answer the question? Okay. Isaiah: No, you definitely did. Yeah. And and that was kind of the angle that I was going, you know, towards is just again the separation between distractions where, you know, especially in the older generations, I feel like there was this large false sense of security and faith where everything was just know, hunky dory because of the American dream and all these different things that permeated that spiritually or just traditionally. And then as we kind of go into these younger generations, ⁓ you know, more so with ⁓ you know, Gen Z Millennial Bridge, maybe those ninety-sixers or people that are born in the early two thousands, where it's they just maybe had enough time to not have technology, but then when it came through it it kind of swept them away because, you know, like Maddie said earlier, with the social media aspect, the next thing you know, it's very revealing to put yourself out there. And it almost creates this ⁓ this self-censorship to face where okay, if my peers see what I'm eating, if I'm at a cafe or a restaurant or whatever. 'Cause we were kind of indoctrinated to create this voyeuristic experience for everyone to kind of see what's going on. the last thing you want to know is is someone's, you know, faith practice. You know, e even being a a a boomer or Gen X, you know, it it was very difficult for ⁓ you know, my parents to, you know, walk around and and be questioned about their faith, even though ⁓ you know, most people would not have too much of an issue, but it was still a very revealing part of their Their experience. Like how do you stand up for your faith? And then when you go into these younger generations, ⁓ again, that word self censorship comes in to where ⁓ now I'm getting conditioned to tell the world everything that I do. And now the last thing I want to do is show them something that I feel like they're gonna disagree upon. So therefore I'm not gonna create any time for it. Phil, do have any comments on that since that's probably pretty new to you? phil: Yeah, it is new, the notion of that. As you were talking, just was more of a question. The understanding of a real lasting faith that is relational in nature. What's the biggest roadblock to that? Is it ourselves? Is it our own nature? know, sometimes we're stupid past the point of understanding. You know, we do stupid stuff that's not helpful to that. Or is it outside influences? Is it Satan working against us to conspire and weaken our faith? And I think some of that, I don't know. I'd just be interested in hearing your thoughts on that too. There's two sides to it. The one that we bring to the table ourself, and then also the outside, the spiritual forces that are working against us too. But what's the obstacle to real-time faith? Isaiah: Can you just rephrase that question? I'm gonna have Maddie answer it, ⁓ since she has to leave shortly and then ⁓ as I edit that out, ⁓ I'll I'll answer it. phil: Sure. Absolutely. So the question that I'd like to bring through is what is the bigger obstacle to our faith, to a genuine relational faith with God? it ourselves and what we bring to the table, the inadequacies, the sometimes lack of discipline? Is it that or is it the obstacle of Satan wanting no parts of us having a real life relationship with God? What is the bigger obstacle to this genuine faith? Maddie: That is a tough question to answer. I definitely would be curious to hear Isaiah's thoughts on this, because he has, you know, much more experience than I do. But what I will say is maybe it's a little bit of both. Maybe it's a lot of both. I don't know that there's maybe one more than the other. I think our flawed human nature contributes to that. Like, of course, you know, it's it's the same thing as we want to take better care of our health and getting ourselves to do that one little task that would make such a big difference is it's so difficult. We know it's easy. We know it's not hard to set aside the five or ten minutes or an hour, but To get ourselves to actually do it feels so difficult. And I think that's just natural resistance we have. For some reason us humans seem to have a natural resistance towards doing things that are good for us. I don't know why that is. and then along with, you know, the enemy, I feel like it's pretty apparent that he's at work and he's constantly at work and in different ways for different generations. He almost like molds and and shapes the distractions to be suited to the person and the generations that we we are in. And so maybe for you, Phil, it was like Isaiah said, just kind of like this this feeling that maybe something was missing and maybe those practices that you grew up with were less important. And For our generation, I really do feel like, at least for me, it's a it's definitely, you know, a technological thing. And perhaps that's a reason why. But it's definitely hard to say if it's one or the other. I could say though, what Isaiah had mentioned about social media and being afraid to stand up for Christ to speak about your belief in him. It is a very real thing that I have definitely experienced intense fear about. In fact, that's like what a large part of me getting back into my faith felt like. It was fearfulness about sharing that with people because I didn't know how it'd be received, as if that's something that's, you know, super important. It's really not. It's, you know, it's the religion, it's the relationship I have with God and what that's done in my life, what that will do for others' lives. ⁓ but it feels so intense and scary and almost something that would have held me back given the age of social media and technology. So that You know, that could be the enemy at work. I don't know. Isaiah: Yeah, thank you. And and Maddie, if you do have to leave, ⁓ you know, I'll answer this question and we'll continue the episode. Okay. Yeah, but see ya. Yeah, just to kind of pair with Maddie's, you know, comment, I think of this word, you know, Zeitgeist, right? You know, the word zeitgeist i comes from this German philosopher in the eighteen hundreds and it basically translates to the spirit of the age, right? So we we think of that word. It's kind of used in like a cultural context to every generation having like a certain essence or a certain spirit, right? You know, so I I see that a lot of times every generation has like their own obstacle, but it's very specific to their timeline, their time period, right? ⁓ and to just kind of answer that question, we have to kind of understand that there is an opposition, there is an enemy, whether you choose to call ⁓ a name to it or just understand it as what it is. there is something that is conspiring against your ability to have faith. But I I really like what Maddie said where it's a little bit of both, right? There is a little bit of both in the sense that we have a very specific physical human nature. And I see it very similar to in my my job where I'm training people, I'm coaching athletes, where there's this tendency to maybe want change but not want to do the things that's required of it. Or there's this, I don't want to say like laziness, but there's this mentality when doing something that's inherently good for you, ⁓ your your body and your your psychology almost kind of works against you to some degree, right? And I think when you pair that with the idea of an opposition, whether it be societal or or technological or spiritual, they almost like exacerbate the human nature that we already have, right? It's like the saying that, you know, you'll hear sometimes in podcasts, ⁓ you know, never let a crisis go to waste. Where, you know, whenever there's something that happens in the world, you know, whether it was orchestrated or natural in occurrence, you know, capitalize on it, right? So I think that the opposition has a lot of that as well, where if there's an inherent crisis within your own ability to do something good for yourself, like to have a a spiritual or faith practice, ⁓ you know, there's gonna be obstacles, right? There's gonna be things that are gonna kind of come in the way because, you know, why would the opposition allow ⁓ the offensive to take over, right? Like, you know, why would you let ⁓ the opposing team score on you, right? You know, so I I think that's a really good thought provoking segment to where maybe maybe we can start to kind of answer these questions ⁓ with the scripture, right? Which I always like to lead with. I don't want to be an opinion based podcast. So we do want to kind of look towards the scripture to kind of see if we can ⁓ justify our opinions or just kind of work through it. You know, so what I do have here in the New Testament, we're gonna turn to the book of Mark. It's gonna be Mark twelve. ⁓ I'm gonna turn to my physical Bible. Sometimes I look off my computer. So we have Mark twelve and this is a very small segment. It's actually gonna be in verses forty one through forty four. The the title of it's called The Widow's Offering. So just to kind of give context, ⁓ you know, Jesus is sitting ⁓ near the temple, right? And he's you know he's watching two situations happen. He's watching, you know, the the the Pharisees or the people within the temple that have all the power and the wealth, you know, donating to the the temple or the church, right? So that he's analyzing this situation alongside with someone who Is is a widow, you know, her husband died and she has no money, you know, she doesn't have the means to give much of anything, right? So it says here in verse 41, you know, Jesus sat near the temple money box where people put their gifts. He watched the people put in their money. Many reach many rich people gave large sums of money. Then a poor widow came and gave two very small copper coins. These coins were not worth even a penny. Jesus called his followers to him. He said, I tell you the truth, this poor widow gave only two small coins, but she really gave more than all those rich people. The rich have plenty, they gave only what they did not need. This woman is very poor, but she gave all she had, and she needed that money to help her live. Right. You know, so just to kind of take this four verses, we can go in a lot of different directions, but one of the things that I kind of want to highlight, talk about, discuss is, you know, what are what are our two copper coins? Right. You know, there's this notion that, you know, when I grew up in the church, one of the many things that I would hear Regardless if it was within a denomination or just somewhere else, even Catholic school to some degree, is they would always say to, you know, give your whole entire life to to Jesus, right? And and that that was pretty stressful for me to think about at a very young age. Because I I didn't understand the context. ⁓ and I rejected the notion of having to give up everything that I planned for myself. And I I find as if that. already kind of creates a large barrier for people to to go through faith is because they're they're mulling over the things that they want to control. You know, they they have these riches in their life that they're maybe maybe donating in an essence where they're trying to do good. They're trying to ⁓ you know help the needy. They're trying to do these little things out of the abundance that they already have, but there's a there's a position of their heart that they're not willing to give up, right? And and one of the things that I really love about this scripture is it becomes very encouraging to this generation, to the millennial, to the Gen Z, to the Gen Alpha. Because one of the things that, you know, Jesus truly wants is, you know, our heart, but it's also our heart in the position of what we give. So whenever we have context to something, it's not the physical heart that pumps blood. It's It's the idea that when we give something to God, even if it's ⁓ you know, a few minutes of praying or praying before a meal, driving to work and listening to a podcast, doing these very small things out of ⁓ the stress of your day, all within all of the the difficulties and the obstacles that you have in your life. ⁓ You know, that does kind of become those two pennies. And Phil, one of the things that I want to talk about is, you know, how does this scripture, you know, appeal to that to that idea of of just kind of giving ⁓ our time and and how does this kind of ⁓ you know lead into the idea of growth in faith? phil: I think it plays wonderfully because it is a process. I liked what you said at the beginning ⁓ about that very thing, because it's not an all at once type of thing where we don't grow instantly into this mature ⁓ person of faith. It's a process. we all come under that training and the instruction. And it's hard. And for me personally, ⁓ One of the most difficult things was coming to the understanding that God has my best interests at heart, that he loves me that much, that even though for me it may seem ⁓ a difficult thing that I'm going through, that he's part of it, he's using it for not just his good, but my good as well too. He's pruning away, taking away some of those things in my life that are not bearing fruit, that are not good, and he's building something that's That's far better. Coming to that understanding for me was tough. You know what mean? Because I think just innate human nature, we hold on to things that, OK, I'm going to do this for God and it's not really going to cost me much. And then we find out, OK, I was safe there. I'm going to next time, I'm going to give a little bit more. You I found my experience was just always a part that you withhold from God, whether it's through ⁓ safety or past hurt. We don't want to be hurt there again. That we withhold that from God and God for me personally, I can speak out. He just took it. You know, he just said, OK, that is mine. ⁓ know, over the course of years, you know, now I look back and it's like he had my best interest. But but I was withholding that part of myself because I didn't want to be hurt again. And he just said, I got that. have that. and we're gonna walk through this together. And it really, was a difficult walk, but it definitely deepened my faith. was a relational thing where I not only felt his love, but I felt that he had my best interests at Isaiah: Yeah, thank you. And and one of the things that I really want to kind of dive into even deeper is the notion of time, right? So we have this idea of the widow giving more than time. It was probably her her last two cents that she had. It was everything that she had to give. But within today's climate, with time being such a commodity, and most people they they work sun up to sundown, they come home, they have to take care of their their spouse or their partner and they have always obligations. You know, most of the people that I talk to, they get home from work and they have to do more work, right? They have to do admin stuff, they have to answer emails, they have to plan for the next day, they have to cook for their kids, cook for their family. ⁓ Time is just scarce, right? It it's non existent to some degree where the days seem shorter and time just kind of runs together because it's so chaotic and and saturated with obligations and distractions. And and I find a lot of times when we do have any of free time, you know, what do we do? We we kind of latch on to the the easy enjoyments, you know, the social media, the YouTube, the the television. know, video games or just, you know, insert whatever, right? But with that nature of time being taken from us by the things that we ⁓ give attention to, you know, how can we apply this idea of giving these two pennies to God? You know, how can we apply this idea of giving what we do have to give to establish a momentum to have a a faith practice. phil: That's a good question. ⁓ Again, personally, I can tell you that it looked more like a fistfight with God than it did obedience. ⁓ I fought him on many levels, you know, for that last little bit. ⁓ And some of it was selfishness, some of it was just me not wanting to give over full authority to get to God. And Isaiah, going back to the scripture that you read there, ⁓ when she gave those two cents, his words, Jesus' words, she gave out of her poverty. And I think there's something to that for me when I'm thinking about it now. It's giving out of our hurt, giving out of the things that we're not good at. I think it's easier for us to give of those areas and things that we possess a lot of, where it's a talent of working with people or money. ⁓ If you possess a lot of money, not a hard give. When you don't have skill and talent in a certain area, you don't have time in a certain area. You're a young mother, you've got several children, time becomes compressed, and you don't have a whole lot of time. And I think those are the areas that God is trying to prove into us to give from, you know, the ones that we struggle with the most, so that it's not us giving. It's really not. And He takes the little that we can give and just multiplies it. Isaiah: Yeah, that was more in line with the point that I wanted to come across is this nature that the most valuable thing that we have in life is time, right? It's non renewable, at least in this physical realm, right? So having time determines if you're poor or rich, at least in the idea of time being valuable. So the more time that we have, the more wealth that we have. The less time that we have, the more that we appear impoverished. With that idea, in my perspective, I see most people that exist in a world that have no time to give, they are impoverished, right? They are impoverished because they don't have enough time to give to their spouse, to their family, you know, to their neighbor. They're squeezed and constrained in every aspect of their life to not be able to breathe or to experience any type of rest. Right. I can kinda speak from experience in the sense that my days are are very busy. ⁓ and some days it's very difficult for me to set time for God. And that is full transparency. You know, it's it's difficult for me to carve out time to read and to pray. But I always think back to this scripture and I and I ask the Lord, I ask my God, you know, what two pennies can I give you today? Sometimes I'll make a choice. I'll make a choice when I'm walking to work, 'cause in one of my jobs I have the ability to walk to work with where I live. And I'll and I'll tell God, I'm like, God, I'm gonna walk with you to work. I'm not gonna listen to a podcast. I'm not gonna listen to music. I'm gonna walk and talk with you. Because yes, I'm going to work and yes, I'm going to have a long day, but I'm giving you my two pennies. I'm giving you what I can. And then when I have a meal, ⁓ I ask the Lord to bless it, you know, to give me strength to do the things that I need to do. And I create these habits that allow me to make time in the poverty of of time that I have to give in terms of not having a lot. And and why I really love this scripture as an encouragement, it's very similar to when I have a client that doesn't have time for fitness, they don't have time for health, they don't have time to meal prep, they don't have time to do these important things that would establish a healthy lifestyle. But my job is to give them one thing to do and make sure that they master that before momentum comes and they can do two things. So when I talk to someone and I and I say, hey, listen, everyone that you see around you, they might be going to the gym multiple times a week, but I want you to do once. Can you do once? For some people, that might be church, that might be a Bible study, that might be reading. Can you do it once? Right? You know, can you go on a walk? I'll tell people all the time, walking is the best thing for you. Can you go on a walk with God? Can you just walk down the street around the block? maybe walking or dog, and try and talk to God. And I had Jace on the other on the other ⁓ episode and and one of the things that I always tell Jace when I would talk to him ⁓ you know as a friend in our in our outings is if you don't know how to pray to God, talk to him like he's your friend. Start there. You know, eventually the the language and the structure might change because it's practice and And you learn how to do things based off of what you read in the Bible, how to phrase certain things or how to organize thoughts, but start just talking to him like he's your friend, like he's your father, right? Start there. You know, even if it's wrong, it's right. Because you have a place to start with, and then that will potentiate the next step. ⁓ you know, so when I when I come from that background where I rejected the idea of faith because I felt like I couldn't give it all, right? I couldn't, you know, give Jesus my whole life because I valued my life too much. And I wanna encourage and challenge someone to think, Well, can you give him one thing? You know, what's the one thing that you can give? And I think with our human nature, as we start to understand the benefit of that one thing being given, ⁓ then we start to want to give other another thing, right? It's just like going to the the gym again. You you you do one workout and you feel good, then you want another one, right? And you come back the next week and and that starts to kind of potentiate momentum. ⁓ you know, Phil, do have any ⁓ comments on that idea there? phil: No, I like that. It is momentum, isn't it? I mean, you know, it's definitely something that you can feel that God is working. And it's definitely it definitely is self-fulfilling. You just keep taking steps towards God. It's as simple as that. Yeah, I like that. Isaiah: Yeah, I used to have this, you know, this mentor who would always say, and even my mother to some degree, you know, it's not how much you do something, it's how you apply it. Right? And especially when we're talking about the Bible. You know, some people might just read a devotional. That might be the best starting place for some people, where they just buy a devotional at the dollar store and they just kind of read a page a day. But it's what you do with that one verse that's gonna determine if your life actually starts to change or not. When I first started ⁓ getting back into faith, I did the complete opposite. I would like binge read the Bible over and over and over again. And it was like drinking through like a fire hose, you know. and I I think much like human nature where we feel that we have to do something in abundance to get somewhere, that's what I did. Right. I thought, well, if I study the Bible and read it every single day and I I have an audio bible playing in the background when I'm at work and I'm just listening to it over and over and over again, I'm gonna ascend to this holy like mountain, right? Yeah. And it's funny 'cause I mean, yeah, I learned a lot of things, but I created more questions and answers because I didn't spend time applying things. I didn't phil: Good luck with that. Isaiah: Spend time seeing how these things changed my mind and my life. And one of the biggest things that I learned from these mentors that I had, ⁓ they would say, Hey, I want you to read one verse a day and just read it over and over again. Read it over and over again until you understand it. And if you don't understand it, look it up. And if you don't understand what you're looking up, look that thing up. Just keep on being so specific with that one sentence. until it just kind of makes sense. And then you move on to the next verse and in the next verse. And I remember I did that with one of the smaller books, it may have been like James or Ephesians. And I remember doing that for a summer where I literally went verse by verse every day. And I got so much more out of that little bit of ⁓ you know, digesting of information than I have in my whole entire life of reading the Bible, you know, cover to cover. you know, so that's something that I find very important with the nature of giving God that little bit of time, that that heart posture, like that intention. We call it, you know, in in Krishna is heart posture, but it's really intention. Like what is your intention with this information? How are you gonna apply it to your life? And that's gonna have more more return of your investment going forward, right? phil: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaiah: Okay, so we're gonna go on to this last scripture that I have prepared. And one of the things it's really gonna kind of tie in what we just kind of said. It's in the book of Corinthians. So it's Corinthians one chapter nine. And again, it's a few verses. This is Paul writing to the church in Corinth. And see here. Cut this out, edit, edit. Where is it? Nine twenty seven. Boom boom boom. Okay, yep. So in the book of Corinthian in the f cut in First Corinthians chapter nine, starting at verse twenty four. I'm gonna read it through and we're gonna talk about it. It says, You know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize. So run like that. Run to win. All of those who compete in the games use strict training. They do this so that they can win a crown. That crown is an earthly thing that lasts only a short time, but our crown will continue forever. So I do not run without a goal. I fight like a boxer who is hitting something, not just the air. It is my own body that I hit. I make it my slave or my servant. I do this so that I myself will not be rejected after I have preached to others. When we kind of look at this few verses, there's a few things that you can kind of take with this, but one of the biggest things that I want to tie into this idea is of training. Whenever we have an event or a sport or a goal, whether it be to Be healthier, to lose weight, to run a 5k, to do something more sports organized. There's a starting point where you know nothing. There's a point to where you're learning the basics, and maybe you're going to one practice or you're going on one run. You're doing the very bare minimum to learn the skill, to fail, to learn how to succeed, to see how you can navigate this obstacle. And then again, as momentum kind of grows, you start to become an athlete, right? You start to only think about that sport. You start to only think about this activity day and night. You train four days a week, five days a week, whatever. And it and it becomes your everything. You know, in the sport that I coach, you know, sometimes I have people that start once a week and twice a week and next thing you know, they they're ready to sell their house to become like a professional athlete 'cause they're so obsessed with it, right? And and that is the connecting piece, the the bridge to our faith, where we are called to give our life to Jesus, but that is the end goal, right? The end goal is to let him have control over everything. The the first step is that first practice, is that first day of training. Like what is the one thing that you can practice towards? To get to the finish line of that race, to get to that end goal, to get that medal. And I think that's again, I I love using the word encouraging because when I was younger and I would read these words and I would just think so negatively towards it. I would think, ⁓ my gosh, I have to give everything up. I have to sell my house, I can't go to college, I can't do this, I gotta be a missionary, I have to do X, Y, and Z. But I I missed the mark. I didn't understand what God was trying to really say. You know, he he wanted to control and provide for my life. Not just to control, but to provide. To like you said earlier, to give the best things to you. But in order for that to happen, I need to start to give things up in that process. And it started small. It started with honestly listening to a podcast. back in twenty twenty one, where I would just listen to a podcast at work and then it just started to grow from there. You know, so Phil, what are some things that you think about in reg regards to that scripture, but the idea of training and in and developing faith versus just saying that we have to do everything all at once? phil: Yeah, yeah. It's not, you know, obviously you're not going to, I loved sports too when I was younger, loved to play them, but it was more like an outlet. It wasn't anything that I would say that I was disciplined in or good in. When you read those verses, the word that kept coming back to me was discipline. You know, we are going to start out small, but the discipline for me was just an end goal. ⁓ And the end goal was just to be, when it comes to faith matters, to be closer to God, you know? And that allows you, I think, to get through some of the hard practices, to get through some of the hard days, you know, when you just don't feel like spending time or, you know, you're tired or whatever the reason is. ⁓ There's that end goal that says, you really said this and you're living it out, that you want to be closer to me. Let's keep going. Let's keep. And it almost feels like God... was pulling me along in some of those in the days that I didn't want to. ⁓ And the discipline started to grow. I liked your piece there at the beginning, Isaiah, when you said you start small. You really have to. It's ⁓ not the fire hose mentality where we can just open wide and he's going to pour everything in all at once. We learn in small increments. that definitely resonated with me there. ⁓ but the discipline to stay with it and to keep building off those small pieces where he just kept pulling me along. ⁓ But it definitely involves discipline. Isaiah: Yeah, this is more of a question for you. Do you agree with that idea? Or again, this could be generational too, because I feel as if you know, growing up around, you know, boomers within church services and groups and functions, you know, you name it. phil: OK. OK. Isaiah: One of the biggest things that I would always hear is this nature of just kind of complete surrender, you know, and and I think that is what I don't think. I know that that's true, but I feel like so much onus was put on those words and no one ever really talked about first steps. There was this almost overfocus on just completely changing everything and having this almost supernatural or radical experience. phil: Yeah. Yeah. Isaiah: that would, you know, all allow you to do that task, right? Maybe that it was this ⁓ supernatural, you know, godlike experience that you're like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna give it all up to him. I'm gonna be a missionary, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna donate all my stuff. Like, do you feel that that came from a very specific place within your generation? Or was that more of like an interpretation, or am I wrong? phil: I think it's more of an interpretation, because my experience when I first started out in the church definitely mimicked that. It started out with, well, here's what the great heroes of the faith did. You'd hear scripture, you'd hear stories. David, here's what giving all looks like. But my experience was we were provided ⁓ steps to increase and start to follow God. ⁓ So that and that part I would say not, you know, I necessarily agree with you there. That was my experience, but generationally that was definitely a big part of it where it was more like a system that just produced believers, know, quote believers. ⁓ as opposed to real, genuine faith. Sometimes the reliance on the supernatural, God's going to come down and just all of sudden, boom, I'm going to be who he wants me to be. That was definitely part of the day as well, It wasn't necessarily my experience, but it was definitely there. Isaiah: Yeah, and again, I'm sure there's context to the time period and the situation. And I've I find being a millennial and and just being surrounded by Gen Z, Gen Alpha, it almost feels impossible to do that now, right? Where it's it's physically impossible to do that. But then sometimes I'll go on YouTube and I'll see some kind of street evangelist or someone who's just doing a lot of really crazy stuff in in in communities and I'm like, okay, well maybe that's what I'm supposed to do. Right. You so you start to get almost like this imposter syndrome with your own faith where you start to feel as if you're creating a barrier on your own to have growth. But I I think the biggest thing that I maybe not necessarily want to communicate but create is a lack of an obstruction, ⁓ to come to the table, right? Where it's you know, there's there's so many reasons to not have faith in your life. Whether it's social rejection on social media, by your peers, by your family, by your friends, even before you even have the idea of trying to do it or trying to say a prayer or trying to read the Bible, there's already a stigma that's controlled, ⁓ you know, throughout society that would prevent you from even coming at the table. Right. You know, so my my stance comes from the nature of creating less barriers for entry versus making it seem almost unattainable. And and I don't know if I'm right by doing that, but it's just kind of how I see things. phil: Yep, absolutely. You can edit this out too, if you think about it. But I just think by nature, the very pursuit of God is something that we're never going to do in our own. We're never going to attain to perfection. We're never going to attain to spiritual discipline that totally puts God at the center. We're just not. ⁓ But Paul says we're still supposed to run that way to beat our body. That's good advice for anybody starting out. You know what mean? That kind of sets the course. This is what the goal is. Isaiah: Mm-hmm. Yeah, again, I'm not trying to be prescriptive and tell people how to do it. And some people do give everything over immediately and then they have a great life. I mean, and I don't think that should be a deterrent for someone to do that if they're called to do that. But I think we're living in such an age that there's so much competing for our attention. There's so much competing for our time. You know, time almost seems like it's always running out. And the idea of faith being such a long process, most people will just have the mentality to not even attempt it. For versus having the idea of, you know, what is the one thing that I can give up this week? What is the one thing that I can try and do to get closer to the idea of following God or knowing who Jesus is? Yeah. You know, so just in general closing, you know, I I just kinda wanna have this idea that, you know, God doesn't ask us to start at the finish line. You know, He wants us to be faithful with the time that we have today. So I want in just general closing to encourage the audience to process this information and, know, question it in their own ways, but also just kinda see, hey, what is that one thing I can do? What's What are those two pennies that I can give for today? And and maybe see if it grows into something more valuable. ⁓ I want to thank you guys for listening to this podcast. ⁓ you know, we do plan to release episodes once a week with the occasional bonus interview episode. We will see you guys throughout the week and and please also follow us on Instagram at Generation F Pod. We are also on YouTube with the same name. ⁓ and we're also found on Apple Podcast with generationfpod at gmail dot com with any questions or comments. Thank you so much and have a good night. Cut. phil: That was good. That was good. Yeah, you definitely, think you've got a very good handle on bringing this. you know, again, I'll keep saying it, dude. If I, if I say something that's not, it's not ringing true, just cut it out, man. You know what I mean? Isaiah: How do you think that went? Yeah. No, no, it's fine. No, I think you know sometimes I'm expecting a certain answer and when if I don't then I just have to say it in a different way. It's not that not yeah, it's not it's not like you didn't say anything right. It was just like there was two occasions where I was like, Okay, like I I wanna just have this one thing come through 'cause I w I want the episode to be based off of like time, you know. Yeah. But yeah, I think everything went pretty well. I think we kinda hammered the idea of how to spend time. phil: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Time, time, yep. Yep. Yep. I like it. Isaiah: Yeah. What'd you think? phil: Good, good. It really was. And I like Maddie's input too. You know, she's got to get out of there too, flipping it around. I thought it was a good idea doing the, the generation piece at the beginning. I like it. Isaiah: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean that might work going forward. I don't know. I'm not I'm not against it. Yeah. Yeah, I think it kinda one thing I was talking to your son about, he was saying how, you know, you need attention grabbers. You know, so sometimes if we don't start with a thing that people are listening to the podcast for, they're almost just like, Well, what are they talking about? You know, it's like you know, so I I think it might even be smart to start off with that segment. ⁓ phil: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Isaiah: But yeah, I I think I like that. It it kinda set up the scripture a little bit more. phil: Good. Yeah, it does. It does. It kind of gets, lets people think through it and then jump it in. I like that, dude. Isaiah: Yeah. Cool. Are you feeling better? phil: I am. That was not a fun run again. was like Wednesday night. ⁓ and I think it was, like I said, we were exposed to, my wife's niece. ⁓ she had like a cold run through there. It was, it was almost like flu-like symptoms. I was, I was just like lightheaded and not, not doing good. So better for the weekend. We actually went up later. We were supposed to go up Friday night. We went up Saturday morning, ⁓ to kind of get me another night there sleep at home. So. Isaiah: Mm. Yeah. phil: But it was good. Good time. Feel better. Isaiah: Good. All right. I'm gonna see if I can edit something tonight, 'cause I wanna get this posted by like Tuesday night. phil: Sounds good. Roger that, big boy. Tuesday it is, Sounds good, Isaiah. Bye bye. Isaiah: Alright, I'll see you Tuesday. Alright. I'll see ya. Bye.