Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mommy goes missing, cracking hubby's secret computer code wide open

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Mommy goes missing, cracking hubby's secret computer code wide open · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x M Triumph
0:08
Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Susan Cox Powell vanished from her
0:12
Speaker 1: West Valley City home in December two thousand nine. Her husband,
0:15
Speaker 1: Josh was suspected in her disappearance. He killed himself and
0:19
Speaker 1: their children in two thousand twelve. Susan has never been found.
0:23
Speaker 1: This case is still being actively investigated. A private investigator
0:27
Speaker 1: working for Susan Cox Powell's family tells me they've made
0:29
Speaker 1: significant progress in cracking a computer owned by Josh Powell.
0:33
Speaker 1: If they can get into it, they think this could
0:35
Speaker 1: be a big breakthrough in the missing person's case. No one,
0:38
Speaker 1: especially in two thousand nine, we put that kind of
0:41
Speaker 1: encryption on their computer unless they were turning to hide stuff.
0:43
Speaker 1: Where we would really like to find on that car
0:45
Speaker 1: drive is any kind of information that leads us to
0:47
Speaker 1: a body. This is the most hopeful lead we've had
0:50
Speaker 1: yet in the process of trying to find Susan. As
0:54
Speaker 1: long as I live, I will never forget when Susan
0:58
Speaker 1: Cox Powell did appeared. As long as I live. This
1:03
Speaker 1: beautiful young I think she was a stockbroker and investment banker.
1:07
Speaker 1: But what always sticks out in my mind is that
1:10
Speaker 1: she was devoutly religious and a mother of two beautiful
1:16
Speaker 1: baby boys. Beautiful. I've listened over and over and over
1:21
Speaker 1: to her friends and neighbors that said she had such
1:23
Speaker 1: a happy marriage to her husband Josh. Well, I didn't
1:27
Speaker 1: see that at all when I first heard that Susan
1:30
Speaker 1: was missing, and that the day she goes missing, she
1:34
Speaker 1: had a lady over at the house, and I've I've
1:36
Speaker 1: listened to what the lady has to say, who was
1:38
Speaker 1: working on a quilt or some project for the church
1:41
Speaker 1: that afternoon until about five thirty, and Susan was tired
1:45
Speaker 1: and she took a nap, and so the woman was
1:47
Speaker 1: there until five thirty. Everything was fine. Then we learned
1:50
Speaker 1: that night, at about midnight, her husband, Josh Powell, decides
1:56
Speaker 1: to take the boys camping, repeat camping. I think there
2:00
Speaker 1: were two and four at that age, or four and six,
2:03
Speaker 1: and it was sub freezing weather. It's like fourteen degrees
2:07
Speaker 1: out and he gets in the car and takes the
2:12
Speaker 1: boys camping at midnight on a Sunday night with a
2:16
Speaker 1: work day the next morning. That's when I knew something
2:23
Speaker 1: was horribly wrong. I'm talking about the disappearance of Susan
2:27
Speaker 1: Cox Powell and to this day I sware it then
2:31
Speaker 1: and I swear it now. I'm not letting go of
2:34
Speaker 1: this case until we know the truth. I Nancy Grace,
2:37
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
2:41
Speaker 1: I want to go straight out to a very special guest.
2:45
Speaker 1: Um with me is Rose Winquist, the Susan Cox family
2:50
Speaker 1: private investigator, high profile lawyer, the Cox family lawyer. And
2:56
Speaker 1: Bremner my personal friend, my friend ben levitant telecommunications expert,
3:02
Speaker 1: tech expert, and boy do we need him today. And
3:06
Speaker 1: Denise Cox Ernst. This is Susan's sister that I think
3:12
Speaker 1: a great deal of. Denise. It's wonderful to hear your
3:17
Speaker 1: voice again, and I only wish I knew you under
3:21
Speaker 1: other circumstances. That's what I wish, Denise. Before I get
3:26
Speaker 1: to what I perceived, a big development in the case,
3:29
Speaker 1: and that is Rose Winquest possibly being able to to
3:33
Speaker 1: crack a highly encrypted computer belonging to the husband, Josh,
3:39
Speaker 1: can you tell us set the scene for this discussion
3:43
Speaker 1: The day that Susan goes missing, Denise, I had talked
3:49
Speaker 1: to her about a week before. She was planning to
3:52
Speaker 1: come out to Washington a little early to spend some
3:56
Speaker 1: time with my children. And we were planning on you know,
4:01
Speaker 1: her favorite show was Friends, and we were planning on
4:03
Speaker 1: doing a friend day and she likes to do my
4:05
Speaker 1: kids hare and you know, everything was fine when we go.
4:09
Speaker 1: You were going to watch Friends all day? Is that
4:11
Speaker 1: what you're gonna? Okay? Because I'm planning a Harry Potter weekend.
4:14
Speaker 1: As soon as the children get out of and have
4:17
Speaker 1: skill friend, We're gonna just lay around and watch Harry
4:19
Speaker 1: Potter and and Narnia. That's what We're just gonna watch
4:22
Speaker 1: it and watch it and watch it until I just
4:23
Speaker 1: can't watch it anymore. So she likes the show Friends.
4:27
Speaker 1: That was our favorite. You know what I like hearing
4:29
Speaker 1: this about her. So she loved Friends. So y'all were
4:31
Speaker 1: gonna banjon Friends and do here? Right? Sounds fun? Well,
4:36
Speaker 1: we had we also had a game and we always
4:37
Speaker 1: had a contestancy who knew more about the show, you know,
4:40
Speaker 1: her eye and the game was a lot of fun.
4:43
Speaker 1: But you know, we got off the phone and she
4:45
Speaker 1: had to go, of course. And you know, a week later,
4:48
Speaker 1: my dad called me and I was at work and
4:50
Speaker 1: he asked me, wait a minute, wait a minute, today's everybody,
4:53
Speaker 1: don't get mad at me for interrupting. You said she
4:57
Speaker 1: had to go. Of course, now I know what that means,
5:01
Speaker 1: But could you tell everybody else what you mean? When
5:04
Speaker 1: I was an abusive marriage at the time, and from
5:08
Speaker 1: talking to her, I know it seemed like she had
5:10
Speaker 1: the perfect marriage to everybody from you know, she put
5:13
Speaker 1: up a good front. But with our conversations, I knew better.
5:18
Speaker 1: And we both had to sneak our conversations with each other.
5:21
Speaker 1: And when we did it with our husband's home, we
5:26
Speaker 1: both had listening to ears and we had to be
5:29
Speaker 1: careful what we said. And when I got to talk
5:35
Speaker 1: to her, it was barely for about twenty minutes, you know,
5:39
Speaker 1: twenty five minutes, you know, when our husbands were listening,
5:44
Speaker 1: and then he you know, one of them would encourage
5:47
Speaker 1: us to get off the phone because you know, there
5:50
Speaker 1: are attentions not on them and I could always hear
5:53
Speaker 1: Josh in the background saying in other words, when Josh
5:56
Speaker 1: was around, you couldn't talk to not really at it.
6:00
Speaker 1: So she had to get off the phone. Then, um,
6:03
Speaker 1: a week later, she just I got a phone call
6:05
Speaker 1: from my dad asked if I darted from her, and
6:08
Speaker 1: I knew where she was, and you know, obviously from
6:11
Speaker 1: that week before I that was the last time I
6:13
Speaker 1: had heard from her. Thinking then, you know, at first
6:17
Speaker 1: I thought nothing of it because she had you know,
6:22
Speaker 1: my thought, maybe she went to a friends or you know,
6:25
Speaker 1: she was busy doing something for work. But when it went,
6:31
Speaker 1: you know, three days not hearing from her, I got
6:34
Speaker 1: alarmed then because I would have heard from her if
6:38
Speaker 1: there was something going on. We're pretty close. Then what happened?
6:45
Speaker 1: Search parties um a lot of anxiety, wondering where she
6:51
Speaker 1: is waiting by the phone. Look, you know, just waiting
6:56
Speaker 1: it's a waiting game, as it's a waiting game now,
7:00
Speaker 1: and wondering what happened to her? Well, wait a minute,
7:02
Speaker 1: didn't you ask Josh? Didn't you ask Josh where Susan?
7:05
Speaker 1: Why is she not? He wouldn't answer my phone call.
7:08
Speaker 1: I tried calling her phone, and of course she didn't answer.
7:12
Speaker 1: And you know, when I talked to my dad, had
7:16
Speaker 1: tried to find out from Josh where she was, and
7:21
Speaker 1: I tried asking him. He didn't want to talk to
7:25
Speaker 1: our family at all. He didn't like our friendly at all,
7:29
Speaker 1: but he didn't he didn't talk to me very much,
7:32
Speaker 1: and he knew how I felt about him, so he
7:36
Speaker 1: wasn't forthcoming on any information. He dodged the family. I'm
7:41
Speaker 1: just having a hard time even getting my mind around that,
7:44
Speaker 1: because if I couldn't find David, I mean, and then
7:48
Speaker 1: somebody wouldn't his family or his friends are the people
7:51
Speaker 1: at his building where he works, wouldn't answer me. I mean,
7:56
Speaker 1: I go set the place on fire for Pete say,
7:58
Speaker 1: and I don't understand why he wouldn't even speak to
8:00
Speaker 1: you or answer your calls to me. That's a very
8:02
Speaker 1: bad sign. Okay. What we know happened after that is
8:07
Speaker 1: based on a relative there in town. The police go
8:11
Speaker 1: to the house. They get to the home, it's locked
8:14
Speaker 1: up tight, and nobody answers. Very significant fact and Bremner
8:20
Speaker 1: Cox family lawyer, is that when that morning when she
8:25
Speaker 1: didn't show up to work, remember the camping trip in
8:28
Speaker 1: the middle of the snow with two little tots was
8:31
Speaker 1: on a Sunday night. The next morning, Monday, she she
8:35
Speaker 1: Susan Cox Powell, did not show up to work. That
8:38
Speaker 1: was a problem. And so the police go to the house.
8:41
Speaker 1: The house is sealed up tight. A relative goes, yes,
8:44
Speaker 1: open the window, break in. The police break wind. They
8:47
Speaker 1: get entered the door, they find a wet a big
8:51
Speaker 1: wet spot on the carpet in front of the love seat,
8:54
Speaker 1: which I guess is in the living room with din
8:57
Speaker 1: with two giant fans acing it, blowing on it. The
9:01
Speaker 1: house was left like that. They also significant significant see
9:06
Speaker 1: her purse, her I d her car, keys, her credit cards,
9:11
Speaker 1: for driver's license, everything is in the home. So what
9:14
Speaker 1: did she do leave on foot? Her car car is
9:18
Speaker 1: not missing. What did she leave on foot in the
9:20
Speaker 1: snow that night? When Josh was Josh Powell was asked
9:24
Speaker 1: later and I've watched him, I've watched his face when
9:27
Speaker 1: he answers where why didn't she go with you camping
9:31
Speaker 1: that night? He just simply says she didn't want to.
9:35
Speaker 1: It would have been a cold day and h G.
9:37
Speaker 1: Double l and Bremner high profile Seattle lawyer and Cox
9:40
Speaker 1: family lawyer. Then I would let David Lynch take John,
9:44
Speaker 1: David and Lucy out on a Sunday night and sub
9:46
Speaker 1: freezing temperatures to go camping. Uh n O and uh
9:53
Speaker 1: absolutely Nancy. And that should have been probably cause alone
9:55
Speaker 1: for the police in West Valley City. The jurisdiction where
9:59
Speaker 1: this happened. And Josh had her phone. Um, and then
10:02
Speaker 1: he took the SIM card out, and then he acted
10:04
Speaker 1: like he was calling her at work. Wait wait wait
10:06
Speaker 1: wa wa what and and it's like drinking from a
10:09
Speaker 1: fire hydrant. Okay, it's just too much at once. So
10:12
Speaker 1: Josh Powell and I do the same thing. I've studied
10:15
Speaker 1: it so much, I just rattle off these facts. Let
10:17
Speaker 1: me take in what you just said. So the husband
10:19
Speaker 1: Josh Powell has her cell phone. Okay, again, it would
10:25
Speaker 1: be a cold and h double l but I'm gonna
10:27
Speaker 1: part with my cell phone. That's how I stay in
10:28
Speaker 1: touch with the children's school and David and my mom
10:31
Speaker 1: and everybody else. All right. Uh, So he has her
10:34
Speaker 1: cell phone, then he takes the SIM card out. What okay, stop,
10:37
Speaker 1: hold on, ben Levitan. What does it mean to take
10:40
Speaker 1: a SIM card, s I Amazon mother, out of a
10:44
Speaker 1: cell phone? What does that mean? Nancy? The SIM card
10:47
Speaker 1: is everything that identifies your phone is yours. If you
10:51
Speaker 1: take that out, it's essentially like throwing the phone away. There. Uh,
10:57
Speaker 1: the phone will not send out any information. You could
10:59
Speaker 1: not trace the phone very easily once that sim cards
11:03
Speaker 1: out Nancy, Now, what do you have to do to
11:05
Speaker 1: get the SIM card out? Ben Levitan? Everybody? Ben Levitan, Yeah,
11:09
Speaker 1: longtime friend and colleague joining me out of Raleigh is
11:12
Speaker 1: the telecommunications and tech expert. So what do you have
11:17
Speaker 1: to do to get a SIM card out of a phone?
11:20
Speaker 1: And why would you do that? Well, Nancy, Uh, there's
11:23
Speaker 1: two types of cell phones. There's the ones where you
11:26
Speaker 1: go to the store and they program all your information
11:30
Speaker 1: into that phone. It becomes your phone. So when someone
11:32
Speaker 1: calls you, boom Uh, calls automatically go to you. You
11:36
Speaker 1: can easily make calls. So that's those types of phones. Uh.
11:40
Speaker 1: That would be Verizon and Spread have that technology. The
11:43
Speaker 1: other technology, which we call G S M. You can
11:45
Speaker 1: go get any phone in the world and all that
11:47
Speaker 1: programming information about your phone is on a little sim
11:50
Speaker 1: card like a little memory card. You can stick that
11:53
Speaker 1: little memory card into any phone that's compatible, and all
11:57
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you can use your phone. If you
12:00
Speaker 1: take that little memory card out of the phone. Uh,
12:04
Speaker 1: we can't find the phone. And it's very easy to do.
12:08
Speaker 1: It's intended to come out in and out of phones
12:10
Speaker 1: very easily. Because we anticipated back early in the days
12:13
Speaker 1: that people would want to have, you know, one type
12:15
Speaker 1: of phone for work, and then want to have a
12:17
Speaker 1: different type of phone when you went out not at night,
12:20
Speaker 1: and you want to have a little phone you put
12:21
Speaker 1: in your pocketbooks. So we made these little cards that
12:24
Speaker 1: you could easily encourage people to buy lots of phones
12:28
Speaker 1: and just move the SIM card around. But once that's
12:30
Speaker 1: SIM card, I don't know who has the money. I
12:33
Speaker 1: don't know who has the money to buy three different phones.
12:35
Speaker 1: But you're living, you know, in a different world from
12:38
Speaker 1: they've been leviting. We have because an iPhone have a
12:43
Speaker 1: SIM card in it. Uh. The phones that are for yes,
12:48
Speaker 1: they do. They don't easily come out. It depends on
12:51
Speaker 1: the type of phone, Nancy. Some phones, Uh, the SIM
12:54
Speaker 1: card comes in and out very easily. It's almost like
12:58
Speaker 1: an ATM card where once you put the UH ATM
13:01
Speaker 1: card into a a t M machine, that machine is yours.
13:04
Speaker 1: You know it. It's programmed for you. So on some
13:08
Speaker 1: phones it's very easy to do. Sometimes let me ask you,
13:10
Speaker 1: this is how I compare it. I compare it to
13:12
Speaker 1: a car without the engine. It looks like a car.
13:15
Speaker 1: The doors open and shut. You can stick the key
13:17
Speaker 1: in the ignition but without the SIM card, the phone
13:20
Speaker 1: won't work. Without the engine, the car won't work, and
13:22
Speaker 1: you can't see that on the outside. So he cracks
13:25
Speaker 1: open the phone, according to and Bremner, and removes the
13:28
Speaker 1: SIM card. That's something I didn't know, So what else
13:31
Speaker 1: are you telling me? And Bremner? He takes a SIM
13:33
Speaker 1: card and what else? Um? And then he calls acting
13:36
Speaker 1: like he's just checking on her at work, and he's
13:39
Speaker 1: very invasive. He gives a police statement that is very bizarre,
13:43
Speaker 1: as do the kids? Can I back up? So that
13:47
Speaker 1: we already know that she's not at work, so her
13:49
Speaker 1: car is at work. So why they they know she's
13:53
Speaker 1: not at work? Why would he call her at work
13:56
Speaker 1: pretending she's there. What did he say on those messages
13:59
Speaker 1: just checking in? He I can't remember if he said
14:02
Speaker 1: something about giving her a ride, but he clearly was
14:05
Speaker 1: trying to cover his tracks, you know, after the fact,
14:07
Speaker 1: and he knew she was coming, I mean, and it
14:09
Speaker 1: was very apparent from his behavior. I want to pause
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Speaker 1: ready to help with me. The sister or Susan Cox
17:00
Speaker 1: and these Cox Arenest and the Cox family five and
17:03
Speaker 1: investigator Rose Winklist. It's very significant, I believe to the
17:07
Speaker 1: two of you, and I'll start with Rose. What the children,
17:10
Speaker 1: the two little boys said about what happened that night
17:14
Speaker 1: and the pictures that they drew rose. What has Susan's
17:19
Speaker 1: children the two little boys said happened that night? Well,
17:22
Speaker 1: to start, I think, um, when Chuck and Judy Cox
17:27
Speaker 1: essentially got custody of the children, they began to disclose information.
17:34
Speaker 1: Having been now at the ages of five and seven,
17:38
Speaker 1: they started to remember some things or be more verbal
17:42
Speaker 1: about things, and they started to disclose different things that
17:46
Speaker 1: they remembered about that night they so called went camping
17:50
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. I think Josh left
17:54
Speaker 1: probably around twelve or twelve thirty and they only had
17:59
Speaker 1: one car by the way, so they knew when they
18:02
Speaker 1: went over to Susan's house that morning that the kids
18:05
Speaker 1: didn't show up for daycare, that no one had been
18:09
Speaker 1: there because there was no tire tracks. There was snow
18:12
Speaker 1: in the dryway and there was no tracks, so they
18:14
Speaker 1: knew something was amiss. Now, just a back up for
18:19
Speaker 1: a moment, if you don't mind, um. Josh actually, in
18:23
Speaker 1: his interview with the police, removed his own simcard as
18:28
Speaker 1: well out of his phone because he had a sense
18:32
Speaker 1: that the police were going to confiscate his phone, which
18:34
Speaker 1: they should have and then gotten a search warrant for it,
18:37
Speaker 1: but they didn't, and so when they took his phone
18:40
Speaker 1: to look at it, the SIM card had been removed
18:43
Speaker 1: from his phone as well. So that was a pretty
18:48
Speaker 1: just sit right now, That's a fact. And I've studied
18:52
Speaker 1: this so much. I did not know this. And you know,
18:55
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of law enforcement because I have
18:58
Speaker 1: been part of law enforcement. I'm a whole legal career.
19:01
Speaker 1: But I don't understand this. Why in the world would
19:05
Speaker 1: they not confiscate his phone and SIM card and hers
19:08
Speaker 1: too immediately? That is the million dollar question. I wish
19:13
Speaker 1: I knew they should have. Have you asked them? Why
19:17
Speaker 1: do you think they didn't pursue him as a person
19:19
Speaker 1: of interest immediately? You know, I haven't personally asked them.
19:23
Speaker 1: I don't know if that question has been asked directly
19:26
Speaker 1: to the lead detectives that was assigned to the case. Um,
19:30
Speaker 1: and we have asked it during deposition, But I'm not
19:34
Speaker 1: sure about that. Let's find out. And Brenner, I mean,
19:36
Speaker 1: I don't understand it because I firmly believe if Josh
19:41
Speaker 1: Powell had been arrested immediately, the two little boys would
19:46
Speaker 1: be alive today. The boys are dead, okay, And I
19:50
Speaker 1: firmly believe if he had been prosecuted immediately, this would
19:55
Speaker 1: not have happened. I agree in Answing even such a
19:58
Speaker 1: friend to the family and throughout this tragic ordeal that
20:02
Speaker 1: involved the deaths of the boys and potentially Susan although
20:05
Speaker 1: she's still missing. Um. I tried to get their records.
20:07
Speaker 1: I went to Utah three different times trying to get
20:09
Speaker 1: records at three different hearings procedures. And you know, they
20:14
Speaker 1: were slow to look at him as a suspect, and
20:16
Speaker 1: they kept calling him a person of interest when actually
20:19
Speaker 1: search warrants eventually did issue in the case, but they
20:23
Speaker 1: had to sealed investigation. It was very hard to get
20:25
Speaker 1: information about the specifics of what, if anything, they were doing.
20:29
Speaker 1: All right, just tell me Anne, too many words? Are
20:33
Speaker 1: they all tangled up in the Mormon church together? Is
20:35
Speaker 1: that what it is? You? No, I don't know. They
20:37
Speaker 1: were just they kept saying they couldn't prosecute without a
20:39
Speaker 1: body kind of the that's not true. I mean, he
20:44
Speaker 1: was with her that night, and he goes on this
20:46
Speaker 1: big fake camping trip at twelve thirty at night out
20:50
Speaker 1: in sub sub freezing temperatures with two little boys. My
20:55
Speaker 1: question was back to Rose Winkrest. She's the Cox family
20:58
Speaker 1: private investigator who was actually got a little crack in
21:02
Speaker 1: the case right now. But what the children said? They
21:06
Speaker 1: said the two boys said, Mommy went looking for crystals
21:12
Speaker 1: in the minds. She went into the mind Daddy came
21:18
Speaker 1: back and Mommy didn't. They had the children draw pictures
21:24
Speaker 1: of the night she goes missing, that mommy disappears off
21:28
Speaker 1: the face of the earth, and they have the picture
21:31
Speaker 1: of Mommy in the car that night, but in the
21:34
Speaker 1: trunk of the car. Right then, he should have been arrested.
21:43
Speaker 1: What does nobody know? Children can be witnesses. Denise Cox Ernst,
21:48
Speaker 1: this is Susan's sister. Why wasn't he arrested? I think
21:54
Speaker 1: he should have been arrested when he came back with
21:57
Speaker 1: nos and cards in the phone, I think he should
22:00
Speaker 1: have been arrested. You know, when he said she three
22:03
Speaker 1: went camping, he had no proof to couldn't give a
22:07
Speaker 1: straight answer where he was. I believe he should have
22:11
Speaker 1: been arrested. You know, two days after she went missing
22:14
Speaker 1: and still hadn't returned. The majority, I mean, the rule
22:17
Speaker 1: is majority. You look towards the spouse when there's someone missing,
22:22
Speaker 1: that's who they usually first investigate. And I don't know
22:24
Speaker 1: why they didn't do that in this case. It's very frustrating.
22:28
Speaker 1: Let me come on, she's missing. He says that she
22:31
Speaker 1: just didn't want to go camping, and the children draw
22:34
Speaker 1: this picture. And I've used this technique a million times
22:37
Speaker 1: when I was prosecuting a case where there was a
22:39
Speaker 1: child victim or witness. You get them to draw. If
22:41
Speaker 1: they cannot articulate or verbalize what happened, they can draw it.
22:45
Speaker 1: Sometimes they simply can't say the words. Sometimes it hurts
22:48
Speaker 1: to say the words. Sometimes they don't want to want
22:50
Speaker 1: to say the words, so they'll draw you a picture.
22:52
Speaker 1: Those pictures get me shown to a jury. What is
22:55
Speaker 1: so not true? It just makes me sick. When we
22:59
Speaker 1: were younger, we were really big, you know, because my
23:02
Speaker 1: dad wasn't boy Scouts in the church, and my sister
23:06
Speaker 1: and I went Igloo camping. So to hear that she
23:08
Speaker 1: didn't want to go camping, nor would she ever allow
23:11
Speaker 1: Josh to take him camping. That night without her with him,
23:16
Speaker 1: we went into Igloo camping, we were hiking. We were
23:18
Speaker 1: very outdoorsy person. This is not my Susan was not
23:22
Speaker 1: a stay at home, do your hair and nail's kind
23:24
Speaker 1: of person. She was out there and very active person.
23:28
Speaker 1: She didn't get to drive the family vehicle to work.
23:31
Speaker 1: Most of the time she rode her bike. So when
23:35
Speaker 1: he says that she didn't want to go, that makes
23:37
Speaker 1: absolutely no sense to me. I know her better than that. Well,
23:41
Speaker 1: wait a minute, it's midnight. It's midnight and degrees. Of
23:45
Speaker 1: course she doesn't want to go camping for Pete's sake,
23:47
Speaker 1: but I don't. I don't see her letting the children
23:49
Speaker 1: go camping either. It's ridiculous and interesting. Nobody called the
23:53
Speaker 1: daycare to say the boys weren't coming that day. So
23:56
Speaker 1: here's what we see. We know that they he had
24:00
Speaker 1: been camping many times before, and the children sent Mom
24:03
Speaker 1: said Mom went to go look for crystals in a mine,
24:07
Speaker 1: and she never came out. All right, Sunday night, fourteen
24:12
Speaker 1: degrees outside. Daddy never arrested. They say daddy took mommy out,
24:18
Speaker 1: Mommy didn't come back, and Daddy did. Okay, He was
24:24
Speaker 1: never arrested. Nothing ever moved forward in this case. Then
24:28
Speaker 1: out of the blue and Bremner Cox family lawyer Josh
24:32
Speaker 1: Powell picks up and leaves town. It moves to where
24:37
Speaker 1: he moves to the Pierce County And and the other
24:41
Speaker 1: thing that Nancy is that he'd stopped payment on a
24:43
Speaker 1: payment to the daycare on a check that was due,
24:46
Speaker 1: and he did that before she went missing, So I
24:49
Speaker 1: thought that. And the other thing is he took out
24:50
Speaker 1: life insurance policies on her three point five million dollars
24:53
Speaker 1: when he was essentially broke. She was the breadwinner. Yeah,
24:56
Speaker 1: he came out here, left everything behind, you know, didn't
24:59
Speaker 1: go look for her, No no search parties, no nothing.
25:02
Speaker 1: He just moved with the boys. I'm out to Pierce
25:06
Speaker 1: County here in Washington State. And so he moves to
25:11
Speaker 1: a different state and with his father, who was a
25:13
Speaker 1: whole another can of worms. Susan Cox's father in law
25:18
Speaker 1: was then arrested on child pornography. He turned out that
25:24
Speaker 1: he allegedly had almost five thousand pictures taken of unsuspecting
25:29
Speaker 1: women dressing and undressing, including many of them of Susan,
25:34
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to her. And then he and his son Josh Powell,
25:40
Speaker 1: start smearing Susan's name by saying she was sexually aggressive
25:44
Speaker 1: on her own father in law, which is could not
25:47
Speaker 1: have been further from the truth because Denise Cox, Susan's sister,
25:51
Speaker 1: she told people she was very uncomfortable around the father
25:53
Speaker 1: in law and actually made the family move away from
25:56
Speaker 1: him because he kept making unwanted sex and answers on her. Denise, Yes,
26:02
Speaker 1: yes she did. She told me about that actually quite awesome.
26:06
Speaker 1: Before they actually moved, that he would peek under they
26:09
Speaker 1: lived in his living room or dining room in his house,
26:13
Speaker 1: and they had a blanket like curtain surrounding her dressing area,
26:18
Speaker 1: and she caught him multiple times spine on her, and
26:22
Speaker 1: he actually told her that he wanted to run away
26:24
Speaker 1: with her and that he loved her, and that Josh
26:28
Speaker 1: would share. Another thing that he also we became aware of.
26:33
Speaker 1: He was accused of stealing her panty hose and he
26:36
Speaker 1: would replace her panty hose with the same brand knew
26:40
Speaker 1: and then take her used panty hose. Okay, whoa So
26:45
Speaker 1: between the father and the son, I really don't know
26:47
Speaker 1: which way to turn, But I'm focused on the little boys.
26:50
Speaker 1: Been Levitan joining me telecommunications expert. Is there any way
26:57
Speaker 1: to track by the car or the cell phone we
27:00
Speaker 1: he went that night? See if this is so long
27:03
Speaker 1: after the facts that the records just aren't kepta and
27:06
Speaker 1: that's that's the big problem. Uh, there's still could be
27:09
Speaker 1: records um of where the phones were, but it's it's
27:14
Speaker 1: likely this far off the investigation that did not do
27:18
Speaker 1: a forensic on that phone and not get the phone
27:20
Speaker 1: records immediately just unforgivable. You know, it really is. Anne Bremner,
27:26
Speaker 1: high profile Seattle lawyer representing Susan's family. Did he remove
27:31
Speaker 1: his and her simkine before sim card from their phones
27:36
Speaker 1: before the so called camping trip or after after? Oh,
27:41
Speaker 1: dear Lord in Heaven, ben Levitan, You're right, if they
27:45
Speaker 1: had gotten those pings, we would know where he put
27:47
Speaker 1: her body right now. But that's not how it unfolded.
27:52
Speaker 1: It's not how it unfolded. Rose win Quest, the Cox Family,
27:57
Speaker 1: private investigator, Susan's family, Her parents got custody of the children.
28:04
Speaker 1: They wrestled it away from the dad, and he had
28:09
Speaker 1: visitation of the two little boys right which you know,
28:14
Speaker 1: to me was unforgivable for him to have visitation rights
28:23
Speaker 1: with these boys given all the red flags. Absolutely, So
28:31
Speaker 1: let me go to Denise Cox, Susan's sister, Denise Cox
28:35
Speaker 1: Ernst Denise if you can bring yourself to do it,
28:41
Speaker 1: please explain what happened the last time two little boys
28:47
Speaker 1: had visitation with their dad, Josh Powell. This is long
28:50
Speaker 1: after mommy disappeared into the minds looking for crystals. One
28:53
Speaker 1: night of the night before his visitation, I took them
28:58
Speaker 1: into bed and they played the game of Hugs and
29:03
Speaker 1: kisses Uh to Charlie, then hugs and kisses to Braidon,
29:08
Speaker 1: and went back and forth. And after all those games
29:12
Speaker 1: they were tucked in. It was Charlie's birthday on the
29:14
Speaker 1: nineteenth of January, and we had planned after his visitation.
29:20
Speaker 1: He made me promise to him that I would take
29:23
Speaker 1: him to go get his fish for the fish tank
29:25
Speaker 1: that we bought for his birthday, which is what he
29:27
Speaker 1: had asked me for. They didn't want to go to
29:31
Speaker 1: see their dads. They wanted to actually have me pick
29:35
Speaker 1: them up in the morning and take them to go
29:38
Speaker 1: get the fish and set up the fish tank. Those
29:42
Speaker 1: boys were they went from when they first came to
29:48
Speaker 1: my parents, scared, hiding and yelling at us. Two lovable boys,
29:56
Speaker 1: you know, just coming through the door. They grab your
29:58
Speaker 1: legs and give you bunch of hugs. And they had
30:03
Speaker 1: totally did a big change from when they were their dead.
30:08
Speaker 1: They were finally feeling safe, they were feeling love finally,
30:14
Speaker 1: And you know, it breaks my heart because I was
30:17
Speaker 1: so looking forward to spending the time with him the
30:22
Speaker 1: next day and had been shopping for made of honor dress,
30:26
Speaker 1: and after that happened, I had to shout for a
30:28
Speaker 1: funeral dress. And I cherished that night that I got
30:34
Speaker 1: to tuck them in one last time, not knowing what
30:40
Speaker 1: would happen the next day. It really hurts that and Denise, Denise,
30:48
Speaker 1: what happened the next day, the day of their last
30:51
Speaker 1: visitation with their dad, Josh Powell. What I was told
30:54
Speaker 1: is after my parents go to church during their visitation,
30:58
Speaker 1: and I said I was shopping and when they were going,
31:03
Speaker 1: they didn't want to go, and my parents talked to
31:06
Speaker 1: him into going, said we'll see you later after the visitation,
31:12
Speaker 1: and they just didn't come back. It's like the boys knew.
31:19
Speaker 1: To Anne Bremner, the Cox family lawyer, what happened the
31:23
Speaker 1: day of their last visitation that we know named the
31:25
Speaker 1: boys were brought by a CPS worker to a home
31:29
Speaker 1: that was staged by Josh Powell. It wasn't where he
31:33
Speaker 1: had been living. He'd staged it so he could look
31:35
Speaker 1: better to the case workers. And the case worker brought
31:39
Speaker 1: the boys up to the house and Josh said, you
31:43
Speaker 1: put the door, and he said, um, I have a
31:45
Speaker 1: surprise for you, and they ran to him and he
31:50
Speaker 1: slammed the door on the case worker who was supposed
31:52
Speaker 1: to be part of the visit, and the next thing
31:54
Speaker 1: she knew, she smelled gasolene. And then he blew up
31:59
Speaker 1: the house and he killed the boys with the hatchet.
32:02
Speaker 1: He had a room in the back of the house
32:04
Speaker 1: that had all their toys, and that's where they were running,
32:05
Speaker 1: because that's where they ended up. And he killed himself
32:09
Speaker 1: and he killed both of those boys. It was unbelievably horrific.
32:13
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to understand why why he had to
32:17
Speaker 1: kill the two little boys? Um do you believe? And
32:23
Speaker 1: Bremner that there was at pending arrest and prosecution for
32:30
Speaker 1: the murder of Susan Cox Powell. I had been told
32:33
Speaker 1: that by the West Valley City Police, and there have
32:36
Speaker 1: been a search warrant executed out of his dad's house
32:39
Speaker 1: that led to his dad's arrest for the porn and voyeurism,
32:43
Speaker 1: including a little girls that live next door. And it's
32:46
Speaker 1: a very very lengthy search warrant and it all pertained
32:50
Speaker 1: to getting those journals. That um, that that was both
32:53
Speaker 1: Stephen and Josha talked about. That was the purpose of
32:56
Speaker 1: the warrant, and then they found all of these other things.
32:58
Speaker 1: But my point is is that it like they were
33:00
Speaker 1: close because they listed so many items of incriminating evidence
33:04
Speaker 1: against Josh Pale. And one other thing, Josh Pale had
33:07
Speaker 1: been ordered by the court to take a psycho sexual evaluation,
33:11
Speaker 1: and his reaction in court that day, Um, he showed
33:15
Speaker 1: extreme anger. He was yelling at his lawyer and a
33:18
Speaker 1: lot of angst. And that was right before he killed himself.
33:21
Speaker 1: In the book, now, what was that entail? And Bremner,
33:24
Speaker 1: you're the cops family lawyer. Why was he ordered to
33:27
Speaker 1: take a psycho sexual evaluation? And how many years after
33:31
Speaker 1: Susan quote god missing? Had this been that the cops
33:35
Speaker 1: were still you know, not making an arrest or doing anything.
33:39
Speaker 1: How long had passed that Susan goes missing? And what
33:42
Speaker 1: would the psycho sexual evaluation entail, Well, it had been
33:46
Speaker 1: a number of years and it wouldn't tail a polygraph.
33:49
Speaker 1: It would also entail a placismograph, and the placismograph would
33:53
Speaker 1: show aberrant reaction or reactions to aberrant kind of interest.
33:58
Speaker 1: Because he also had cartoon child porn fo images on
34:02
Speaker 1: his computer back in Utah, and then his father had
34:05
Speaker 1: all kinds of corn throughout the house, multiple computers. Let
34:08
Speaker 1: me ask you a question. Are you saying that Josh
34:10
Speaker 1: Powell had uh sexual cartoons on his computer? Yes, of
34:16
Speaker 1: incest cartoons. It was cartoons, but it was four hundred
34:19
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36:02
Speaker 1: d so when the court ordered him, and this is
36:05
Speaker 1: all because of a search warrant that was done on
36:08
Speaker 1: the dad's home, during which they covered thousands of disturbing images,
36:13
Speaker 1: including some of alleged child porn and voyeurism on women,
36:18
Speaker 1: unsuspecting women of their body parts, and sex organs when
36:22
Speaker 1: they were changing clothes, including Susan. They find all this.
36:26
Speaker 1: They also find disturbing issues with Josh Powell, Susan's husband.
36:31
Speaker 1: As a result of this extensive search, the court orders
36:35
Speaker 1: Josh Powell to undergo a psycho sexual evaluation, and he
36:39
Speaker 1: goes berserk. With all this in mind, police still not acting,
36:46
Speaker 1: he still gets the visitation with the boys. The social
36:50
Speaker 1: worker brings the boys over. He says, come in, I
36:53
Speaker 1: want to show you something, slams the door and locks that.
36:55
Speaker 1: She immediately calls her superiors and the house blows up.
37:00
Speaker 1: We now know he also attacked the two little boys
37:04
Speaker 1: with a hatchet, the two little boys that had already
37:07
Speaker 1: been through so much, Denise Cox, aren't this is Susan's sister.
37:13
Speaker 1: Do you remember the moment that you learned what had
37:16
Speaker 1: happened to the boys, Denise Um? I was told at
37:20
Speaker 1: first that they were blown up, and later on uh
37:24
Speaker 1: that I was told that he had they had heard
37:28
Speaker 1: the social work had heard the boys scream and found
37:33
Speaker 1: out that was as the result of the hatchett and
37:37
Speaker 1: how he did it. He did not actually kill them.
37:41
Speaker 1: They didn't die from those loans. They died from the
37:45
Speaker 1: slope from the fire. And what really tore me apart
37:51
Speaker 1: was they died holding hands. I don't know if Josh
37:54
Speaker 1: positioned them that way or that's how it was, but
37:57
Speaker 1: those boys are really close, so as me to know,
38:00
Speaker 1: because Charlie has always been afraid of fire, that he
38:04
Speaker 1: had to die with his fear. Denise, I'm just trying
38:08
Speaker 1: to absorb everything you're saying. And Ben Leviatan joining me
38:14
Speaker 1: out of Raleigh, tell the communications and texts tech expert
38:19
Speaker 1: renowned in his field. Then when I think back, and
38:23
Speaker 1: there's woulda could have should have? You know, if they
38:25
Speaker 1: had done this, if they had done that. But Ben,
38:28
Speaker 1: it's so simple if they had just not even named
38:32
Speaker 1: him a suspect. But if they had just subpoenaed the
38:35
Speaker 1: Peen records when Susan went missing, they would have had
38:39
Speaker 1: information about where her body was. Based on that and
38:43
Speaker 1: what the boys were saying and the pictures they were
38:45
Speaker 1: drawing and the wet carpet and everything. These little boys
38:51
Speaker 1: would be alive. They would be living with Denise right now, alive,
38:54
Speaker 1: and well they'd be heading to college right now for
38:56
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, Ben, it would be so easy. Tell me
38:59
Speaker 1: how easy it would have been, well, Nancy taking you know,
39:03
Speaker 1: he took the SIM card out of his phone, and
39:06
Speaker 1: that's a it's an amateur theory that that that's gonna
39:11
Speaker 1: You know, he did that intentionally. One he did not
39:13
Speaker 1: want phone calls coming into the phone, and he also
39:16
Speaker 1: did one calls going out of the phone. It disabled
39:19
Speaker 1: the phone. But in an exigent situation like this, we
39:22
Speaker 1: contract the phone itself, you could find the phone. We
39:25
Speaker 1: could have probably found both these phones within an area
39:28
Speaker 1: of at feet, Nancy, we would at least know that
39:32
Speaker 1: they were together. And if these phones were together, that's
39:36
Speaker 1: enough probable cause I would imagine and and think about it,
39:39
Speaker 1: Ben levitaming. You and I have come through so many
39:43
Speaker 1: criminal cases, intricate and complicated criminal cases. Think about it.
39:47
Speaker 1: If she were in the trunk like the little boys
39:49
Speaker 1: drew in the picture, you know, he could not have
39:51
Speaker 1: dragged her body that far in the snow, which would
39:55
Speaker 1: have if the phone had been paid, placed the phone
39:58
Speaker 1: within you know, her feet of where the body was hidden.
40:02
Speaker 1: I mean, was she even dead at the time he
40:05
Speaker 1: left her? And my guess is that she was if
40:07
Speaker 1: she had been in the car trunk like the boys
40:09
Speaker 1: drew in their picture. But just by doing that one
40:13
Speaker 1: simple thing, I mean, in my mind, these detectives must
40:17
Speaker 1: wake up every morning with the two boys faces, you know,
40:22
Speaker 1: in their minds. I first thing every morning, because if
40:25
Speaker 1: they had done that one simple thing, these children, I
40:29
Speaker 1: believe would still be alive today. For some reason, police
40:32
Speaker 1: kept holding off on taking action against Josh Powell. I
40:36
Speaker 1: I don't understand it. Rose Wink was with me, Susan
40:40
Speaker 1: Cox Family private investigator. Right now, Rose, you are undertaking
40:46
Speaker 1: something the cops have not been able to do, and
40:48
Speaker 1: that is to crack the encryption code. This is back
40:51
Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine and Josh Powell had so
40:55
Speaker 1: heavily encrypted his computers. Even the cops haven't been able
40:59
Speaker 1: to break in yet. But you've you made little headway.
41:02
Speaker 1: And this is so important, Rose, because maybe Google search,
41:06
Speaker 1: a Google map, search, am emails something may reveal where
41:13
Speaker 1: she is. Tell me about the encryption, Rose A. Win Quist. Well,
41:19
Speaker 1: to start um, once Josh had killed the little boys,
41:25
Speaker 1: and then committed suicide. Essentially, his brother Michael, subsequently jumped
41:30
Speaker 1: off a parking garage bridge in Minneapolis. Then the police,
41:37
Speaker 1: at some point after what they suspected to be the
41:41
Speaker 1: people that were complicit in her disappearance, decided to deem
41:47
Speaker 1: the case cold, and Bremner, the attorney that I'm working
41:51
Speaker 1: for through the Cox family, asked West Valley Police Department
41:56
Speaker 1: multiple times since this quote the Sensus case was called
42:00
Speaker 1: old um, it should have been turned over. We wanted
42:03
Speaker 1: the case. We wanted the case. We wanted the case.
42:05
Speaker 1: We wanted to see what they had done, what they
42:07
Speaker 1: hadn't done, what leads there were. Finally, finally, after the
42:13
Speaker 1: people that they deemed responsible were dead, they turned over
42:17
Speaker 1: the case. They were supposed to turn it over unredacted.
42:22
Speaker 1: It came back redacted in a way that it was
42:26
Speaker 1: really difficult to put together a timeline because they left
42:30
Speaker 1: things out. The multiple times I get I request nine
42:35
Speaker 1: one one calls, for example from tipsters that are complete
42:39
Speaker 1: with phone numbers and names and what the tip is,
42:43
Speaker 1: they went as far to redact that information, which is
42:45
Speaker 1: which is rarely in my view, for at least in Washington,
42:50
Speaker 1: they give you all of that and they didn't, so
42:55
Speaker 1: fast forwarding, we then got the case file, and we're
43:00
Speaker 1: able to via a timeline, put together some events and
43:06
Speaker 1: leads that the police simply didn't follow up on. So
43:11
Speaker 1: Chuck Cox and Denise and Susan Cox, Powell's sister, and
43:17
Speaker 1: myself and my husband went on a road trip because
43:22
Speaker 1: we found that there was a point where where where
43:27
Speaker 1: Josh had another phone and it pinned somewhere in Oregon
43:33
Speaker 1: around the place where Michael's car had been towed to
43:37
Speaker 1: a salvage yard. It didn't appear to be disabled or
43:41
Speaker 1: broken in any way. It was he apparently, or his
43:45
Speaker 1: sister called Elena. Elena is his sister Powell called a
43:51
Speaker 1: toeyard and they came and got it and gave him
43:53
Speaker 1: a hundred bucks for it or whatever. And the police
43:57
Speaker 1: found out about this. But this is in two thousand
43:59
Speaker 1: and all, and of course Susan disappeared in two thousand nine.
44:02
Speaker 1: So here we are some three and a half years later, nearly,
44:08
Speaker 1: and they took cadaver dogs to this salvage yard and
44:13
Speaker 1: loan behold, these cadaver dogs immediately hit on the trunk
44:19
Speaker 1: of Michael's car. Well prior to them finding out that
44:25
Speaker 1: Michael had taken this car to a salvage yard. Uh.
44:30
Speaker 1: He somehow got ahold of Google and was trying to
44:35
Speaker 1: get Google to manipulate their maps so that his car
44:40
Speaker 1: wouldn't show up if it were searched by the police
44:43
Speaker 1: on the Google Maps. And when he figured out that
44:46
Speaker 1: the police had figured out information that he didn't really
44:49
Speaker 1: want them to know, that's when he decided to commit suicide.
44:53
Speaker 1: So boom, there's another one gone that obviously had clear
44:58
Speaker 1: information about Susan. That is overwhelming. Ben levitan Um, tell
45:06
Speaker 1: me how difficult it can be to crack the code
45:10
Speaker 1: on an encryption Well, Nancy, this is we have the
45:14
Speaker 1: hard disk. Think of encryption is, uh, you know, when
45:17
Speaker 1: you read an email, you read from left to right
45:20
Speaker 1: and top to bottom. What encryption does is just gramble
45:24
Speaker 1: that completely. And you need you need a password which
45:29
Speaker 1: is about a hundred and twenty eight letters and characters
45:32
Speaker 1: long to figure out what order you should read these
45:35
Speaker 1: letters in it. So it's it's it's technically incredibly hard
45:42
Speaker 1: to do. There's there's uh formulas you can try to
45:44
Speaker 1: figure out. These things can take years and years to decrypt.
45:48
Speaker 1: But one thing that can be done and can be
45:50
Speaker 1: done right now, Nancy. When we do an investigation on
45:53
Speaker 1: a hard disk, we don't use the original hard disc
45:56
Speaker 1: because we don't want to risk changing into the data.
45:58
Speaker 1: We make copies of it. So whoever is doing the
46:01
Speaker 1: forensics examination is doing a copy uh the exam out
46:05
Speaker 1: of copy of the hardness. There's no reason you can't
46:08
Speaker 1: make a thousand copies of this hardness, send it out
46:11
Speaker 1: to a thousand forensic experts and maybe get this code cracked,
46:14
Speaker 1: you know, years sooner. Nancy. What would it mean, Denise
46:18
Speaker 1: cox Ernst to Susan's parents to be able to find
46:24
Speaker 1: Susan's remains and bury them with her children. It would
46:29
Speaker 1: mean a lot. We've been looking for her for almost
46:32
Speaker 1: eight years now, and the hardest part about going on
46:36
Speaker 1: is not knowing what happened and not being able to
46:39
Speaker 1: fill at peace or any sense of finality of this event.
46:44
Speaker 1: We to my parents are starting to know. We we've
46:50
Speaker 1: all had to move on. But you don't go a
46:52
Speaker 1: day without wondering what happened and without thinking you know,
46:58
Speaker 1: where is she? And it would it would be amazing
47:03
Speaker 1: to finally be able to you know, visit her and
47:09
Speaker 1: have a peace of mind on knowing what happened or
47:12
Speaker 1: having some closure of some sort. On this case, Susan
47:18
Speaker 1: meant the world to us, and it's it's really hard
47:23
Speaker 1: to go, you know, to go to that grave site
47:26
Speaker 1: and you're mourning the boys, and you still wondering where
47:32
Speaker 1: is Susan. And it gets harder after so long, it does.
47:35
Speaker 1: It never gets easier after time goes on, it gets
47:39
Speaker 1: harder every time. Our prayer today is for peace for
47:44
Speaker 1: Susan's family and for justice as much as it can
47:49
Speaker 1: be attained. New the niece then and Rose, thank you
47:54
Speaker 1: for being with us. Nancy Grace by Story signing off,
47:57
Speaker 1: good bye friends,