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'This is far from over’: The case of Kumanjayi Little Baby · The Morning Edition

0:06
S1: The sound you can hear is the thud of rocks
0:09
S1: being thrown at a police car stationed outside the hospital
0:12
S1: in Alice Springs. And then comes the roars of the
0:18
S1: crowd beside themselves with anger and grief, descending on this place,
0:23
S1: demanding that police turn over a man in their custody
0:26
S1: to the indigenous community to face justice. I'm Samantha Salinger Morris.
0:32
S1: And you're listening to Morning Edition from The Age and
0:36
S1: the Sydney Morning Herald. Today, journalist Hannah Murphy from WA.
0:40
S1: Today on the case of Kumanjayi little baby. Hannah, you're
0:48
S1: speaking to us from Alice Springs. You've been there since
0:51
S1: Wednesday this past week. So can you just take us
0:53
S1: back to the beginning? When did the family of this
0:55
S1: five year old girl realise that she had gone missing?
0:58
S2: Kumanjayi little baby, as she is now known, was last
1:02
S2: seen by her family when they put her to bed
1:04
S2: in the front lounge room of their property about 11 p.m.
1:07
S2: on Anzac Day. She was five years old and lived
1:10
S2: with her mum, but they were visiting family in old
1:12
S2: timers camp Aboriginal community to do some washing on that
1:16
S2: Saturday night. Old Timers Camp is about five kilometres south
1:19
S2: of Alice Springs town centre and backs onto the Todd River.
1:23
S2: There's under a dozen houses there. Um. Her mother Jacinta,
1:26
S2: reported her missing about 1:30 a.m. on the Sunday after
1:30
S2: going to check on her and finding she was missing
1:33
S2: from the front room, the front door was open and
1:35
S2: its flyscreen was unlocked, which is very normal for this area,
1:38
S2: but it's off the main highway and everyone knows everyone.
1:42
S1: Okay, now this sparked what seemed like an immediate police response.
1:45
S1: So how quickly did investigators realise that Kumanjayi little babies
1:50
S1: disappearance was suspicious? And then what led them to connect
1:54
S1: the crime to the suspect, who we now know is
1:56
S1: Jefferson Lewis?
1:58
S2: So starting off with Lewis. So he was about 47
2:00
S2: years old and he was known to the family. He
2:02
S2: had some peripheral family links, and he'd recently arrived at
2:06
S2: the camp and had been staying at the house, I think,
2:09
S2: for about six days prior to Kumanjayi little babies disappearance.
2:13
S2: And when her and her mother arrived on that Saturday night. Um,
2:17
S2: so when police first got the call at 1:30 a.m.
2:19
S2: that the five year old was missing, they did obviously,
2:22
S2: a quick check of everyone at the house got statements
2:24
S2: and soon realised that as well as Kumanjayi little baby, Mr.
2:29
S2: Lewis was also missing from the camp. Northern Territory Police
2:32
S2: acting commander Mark grieve said later Lewis was the only
2:36
S2: person they hadn't been able to speak to, but at
2:39
S2: that stage police were very clear to tell us they
2:41
S2: were open to every possibility. The fact that she may
2:43
S2: have wandered away or become lost.
2:45
S1: And we know that the community, many members of the
2:48
S1: community sort of leapt to to start searching for this
2:51
S1: missing little girl. And then everybody's worst fears were realised
2:55
S1: when police found her little body on Thursday. This is
2:58
S1: about four days later. So tell us about that and
3:01
S1: the rather extraordinary police press conference that that happened.
3:06
S2: So the issue that we had was that, um, it
3:10
S2: had been such a moving feast on the Wednesday, the
3:14
S2: family were still incredibly hopeful, me and myself and photographer
3:18
S2: Sam Moy, when we flew in, we met with the family,
3:21
S2: we sat down with them, and we knew how hopeful
3:23
S2: they were that this could have a happy ending.
3:26
S3: They see her. What would you say to her?
3:29
S4: I we said something. I was talking on the video.
3:33
S4: If you see this film, please let me know and
3:37
S4: tell me straight out because you if you want, if
3:41
S4: you if I want you to listen to me. I
3:45
S4: want you to send that baby back. That's our baby.
3:49
S4: It's our kid. You've got your own big, bigger ones.
3:53
S4: And my kid is just too small. You don't talk. Please,
3:58
S4: can you bring her back? We want her back safe.
4:02
S2: Of course. When that news dropped on, I think it
4:04
S2: was midday on the Thursday at that press conference. It
4:08
S2: was extraordinary to feel that. It felt like, honestly, the
4:12
S2: air had been sucked out of the room when we
4:13
S2: were told what had happened.
4:16
S5: Good afternoon. We're here to provide a tragic update on
4:20
S5: the current status of this investigation. We won't be taking
4:23
S5: questions at the end of today's media. Just before midday today.
4:29
S2: To see police commissioner, assistant police commissioner, rather Peter Malley
4:34
S2: actually tearing up as he delivered the statement that they
4:37
S2: had found her was just so distressing.
4:41
S5: So, um.
4:44
S6: I the focus right now is to locate Jefferson Lewis.
4:50
S6: It is our sole job in this investigation right now.
4:54
S2: But then of course, the issue then turned to locating Mr. Lewis,
4:59
S2: knowing that it felt like something really awful had happened.
5:03
S2: And that extraordinary phrase that he used, which was pretty unequivocal.
5:09
S6: And also to Jefferson Lewis, we're coming for you. Thank you.
5:14
S1: And can you just take a moment to explain to
5:16
S1: listeners why the little girl has been given a new
5:18
S1: name that's now being used in media reporting from the
5:21
S1: one that she used when she was alive.
5:24
S2: So, of course, I can't speak about this with the
5:27
S2: cultural authority that it would demand. But at its simplest
5:30
S2: and what we can share is that Kwementyaye is a
5:32
S2: substitute name for someone who has died in a particular
5:36
S2: Aboriginal language groups. In this case, it's the Warlpiri culture.
5:40
S2: It's a mark of respect. And essentially it means that
5:43
S2: by not speaking their name, we don't disturb the spirit
5:46
S2: of the person who's passed. Um, it's quite similar across
5:50
S2: a number of language groups who live in Australia's deserts.
5:52
S2: But of course, other language groups have their own practices
5:55
S2: about sorry, business. So yeah, it is a bit ad hoc,
5:58
S2: but in this instance it is what the family have
6:00
S2: requested out of respect.
6:02
S1: Okay. I appreciate that. Well, let's go back to the time,
6:06
S1: the time of events really, because we then heard that
6:08
S1: police had apprehended Jefferson Lewis, and many of us saw
6:12
S1: reporting of the scenes outside of the Alice Springs Hospital,
6:16
S1: which of course turned into a riot. Now you were there.
6:19
S1: So can you talk us about your experience and how
6:21
S1: it all unfolded?
6:23
S2: Yeah. So there had been an incredibly long day. We
6:25
S2: started it with our little baby's family. We went out
6:28
S2: on the search for her, and then we got called
6:30
S2: to that press conference and went to the memorial for her.
6:33
S2: But just as our heads hit the pillow that night,
6:36
S2: I believe it was around 10 p.m., um, here at
6:38
S2: the Alice Springs at one of the Alice Springs hotels,
6:41
S2: I heard a voice shout from the street and a
6:43
S2: man running, yelling. Essentially, they got him, they got him. Um.
6:47
S2: So I stuck my head out on the balcony here.
6:50
S2: And two girls, we share an adjoining balcony walked over
6:53
S2: and showed me the live stream that was happening. So
6:55
S2: I phoned our photographer, Sam Moy, and off we went.
6:59
S2: And when we got there, there was essentially about 100
7:02
S2: people in the car park. Um, it wasn't massive at
7:04
S2: that point. They were yelling at police, but that number
7:07
S2: soon ballooned to over 400 and with it the temperature
7:11
S2: just climbed and climbed and climbed. It might be hard
7:13
S2: to hear me right now, but I'm here at Alice
7:15
S2: Springs Hospital, where a crowd has gathered due to information
7:19
S2: that the man wanted over the alleged murder of a
7:22
S2: five year old girl here in Alice Springs has been arrested.
7:26
S2: Projectiles are being thrown at police. People are crouching behind cars,
7:30
S2: bricks are being thrown and people are yelling to please
7:34
S2: give over this man so they can deal with him.
7:36
S2: And what a common thread that we heard yelled throughout
7:39
S2: it was that the people who were rioting said they
7:42
S2: wanted Lewis to be handed over to them to finish
7:44
S2: a cultural obligation called payback. They said that, um, it
7:48
S2: it was, in their view, the police were protecting this
7:52
S2: man that they believed had allegedly murdered this five year
7:54
S2: old girl, and they were incredibly unhappy with that. And
7:57
S2: of course, police can't let that happen. They cannot let
8:00
S2: people get to Lewis until justice is served. So as
8:03
S2: it got more and more dicey, police started lobbying tear
8:05
S2: gas into the crowd and firing rubber bullets. Um, unfortunately,
8:09
S2: there were a number of children at that event. Um,
8:12
S2: at one instance, I think a boy I would have
8:15
S2: said he was around 7 or 8, had copped a
8:17
S2: face full of tear gas and he just was calling
8:19
S2: for his mother. And we tried to help him as
8:22
S2: best as we could. Um, but because there was no wind,
8:25
S2: the tear gas was just sitting, um, and then behind us,
8:28
S2: a cop car goes up in flames and nearby surface stations,
8:31
S2: windows are kicked in. Paramedics are meanwhile trying to rush
8:35
S2: a woman who was giving birth in the middle of
8:38
S2: the riot into the hospital. It was just absolute chaos.
8:42
S1: And so this really is a microcosmic example, isn't it,
8:46
S1: of the tensions that I guess play out in this
8:48
S1: particular community and presumably in other communities around Australia where there's,
8:52
S1: you know, police protecting someone sort of white man's law,
8:55
S1: I guess, and then the guttural anger from a community
8:58
S1: that's demanding their own form of justice. Right.
9:01
S2: And this goes back to when Jefferson Lewis was first captured.
9:04
S2: So police told us initially he wandered into a camp
9:07
S2: in Charles Creek, which is sort of like a suburb
9:09
S2: here in Alice Springs, I would say late on Thursday night.
9:12
S2: And people who recognized him immediately set upon him. Um,
9:16
S2: he was flogged and suffered really serious head injuries in
9:19
S2: that process before detective intervened, who was also injured in
9:23
S2: that process. Um, ambulance workers transported him to the hospital.
9:26
S2: In that time, there was this perception that the police
9:29
S2: had interfered with this traditional practice of retribution. Um, and
9:33
S2: local locals told us that police should have let the
9:35
S2: community handle it. But of course, they can't stand by
9:38
S2: and watch someone likely end up dead. And as a result, retribution,
9:43
S2: in some people's view, has been left unfinished and needs
9:46
S2: to be completed. Um, and we're not capable of saying
9:49
S2: obviously what form that will come. And police are telling
9:52
S2: us that they've got extra resources ready to go if
9:55
S2: something kicks off again. But yeah, this is far from over,
9:58
S2: I would say.
10:00
S1: And do you have any sense of what Kumanjayi little
10:02
S1: baby's family wanted at that time and wants now?
10:06
S2: So first and foremost, I just want to say they
10:09
S2: love that little girl. They are beautiful people at this moment.
10:14
S2: They just want to grieve. They want to complete sorry
10:16
S2: business which began yesterday. And they want the the town
10:20
S2: to remain calm again. Robin said in a statement earlier
10:23
S2: this week that the violence at the hospital wasn't a
10:26
S2: true reflection of the Alice Springs he knows and has
10:29
S2: thrown to. Just days before Alice Springs, locals were walking
10:33
S2: arm in arm with police and authorities like walking through
10:37
S2: this buffel grass to try and find this little girl.
10:40
S2: And Robin said that it's been really hard for them
10:42
S2: to marry these two different perspectives of. They're also contending
10:47
S2: with a lot on social media. Um, they said that
10:50
S2: he feels like they're being laughed at by some members
10:52
S2: of the community and asked for people to find some
10:54
S2: empathy for what they were experiencing.
10:57
S1: Well, I really wanted to ask you about that. You've
10:59
S1: mentioned Robin Granites there, and that is Kumanjayi little babies kinship. Grandfather.
11:04
S1: And I want to ask you about what he told
11:06
S1: you that the family was being laughed at by some
11:09
S1: on social media, because that sounds well beyond cruel and
11:12
S1: An astounding. Given the circumstances. So what are people saying?
11:16
S1: And did you get the sense that this horrific incident
11:20
S1: may actually spark even greater prejudice against indigenous people? Because
11:23
S1: certainly that comment from Robin is just heartbreaking.
11:27
S2: Yeah, it has been incredibly difficult to hear before our
11:30
S2: little baby's body had been found, we were sitting with
11:32
S2: members of the family at Old Timers Camp, and they
11:34
S2: were pulling up videos on TikTok and on Instagram, showing
11:38
S2: us people commenting about the little girl's living situation and
11:42
S2: how people should have been looking after her in a
11:45
S2: better way, or something like that. And they were just
11:49
S2: absolutely distraught because they believed that in again, from what
11:53
S2: I've experienced, that little girl was very, very loved. And
11:56
S2: I think it's just been really distressing for them to
11:59
S2: feel that they are being judged in this moment of
12:02
S2: absolute grief.
12:04
S1: And just to be clear, is the reason they were
12:06
S1: judged because there was photographs of the home which was,
12:09
S1: you know, very basic, I guess.
12:11
S2: Yeah, that is definitely a large part of it. Um,
12:14
S2: there is not much investment in these sorts of camps.
12:16
S2: There isn't much you can really do to understand the
12:20
S2: situation of living there, unless you have been in it yourself. Um,
12:23
S2: there's a playground out the back. I was saying if
12:25
S2: I was a little kid living in there, I would
12:27
S2: be having the time of my life. We walked past
12:30
S2: the other day, a bunch of kids were eating ice
12:32
S2: creams in the buffel grass and walking in the riverbed.
12:35
S2: It just depends, I suppose, on what you think is
12:37
S2: a good upbringing. And I feel like he feels a
12:40
S2: lot of views are being imposed on him that maybe
12:44
S2: is not accurate to his experience.
12:47
S1: And then police were actually forced to chopper Jefferson Lewis
12:50
S1: out of Alice Springs, uh, because of potential dangers to him.
12:56
S1: And of course, the threats from outside of people wanting to,
12:59
S1: to enact some sort of retribution. And as we were
13:01
S1: recording this on Sunday, near lunchtime, there's been some further developments.
13:05
S1: So tell us what's happened.
13:07
S2: There has been. So Lewis was formally charged with the
13:10
S2: murder of Kwementyaye little baby. Northern territory police have told
13:13
S2: us they have every Um intention of following this through
13:17
S2: as well. So there is a few outstanding matters they
13:20
S2: want to deal with whether Lewis was being hidden by someone,
13:23
S2: those kinds of things. But at this stage, we do
13:26
S2: know that that murder charge is now formally before the courts.
13:30
S2: And he will be appearing in a Darwin local court
13:33
S2: sometime next week. It has been a choice for his
13:36
S2: safety and also for the safety of the police officers
13:39
S2: who were guarding him to take him out of a,
13:42
S2: I guess, the hotbed that is Alice Springs at the moment.
13:45
S2: So many have. Many locals here have praised that decision
13:48
S2: and said it has helped turn that temperature down.
13:50
S1: And so tell us what the streets of Alice Springs
13:53
S1: are like now.
13:55
S2: It's from what I can see and what I have
13:57
S2: witnessed over the last few days, it is just quiet
14:00
S2: and sad. Um, some businesses have closed up either out
14:03
S2: of respect or concern that things may flare up again.
14:06
S2: But one thing that I do want to highlight is
14:08
S2: that old timers camp is covered in flowers, candles, cards,
14:12
S2: all remembering the little girl. There has been a consistent
14:16
S2: flow of people to that entrance of the camp. Since
14:19
S2: the news broke, and it has been really beautiful to
14:22
S2: see that the local Coles has run out of flowers. Um,
14:25
S2: people are doing their absolute best to make sure that
14:28
S2: she's remembering, but it's still sort of sitting at this. Um,
14:32
S2: everyone is just sort of desperately sad. And there is
14:35
S2: still that undercurrent of frustration and anger, particularly today, after
14:40
S2: the detail of his charge came out. There has been some,
14:44
S2: I guess, disgust with that as well. But it's still
14:46
S2: very much like the aftermath of a bushfire at the moment.
14:49
S2: Everything's still smoking a spot. Fire will go up every
14:51
S2: now and then and everyone just looks a little shell shocked.
14:54
S2: But at the end of that, everyone is sort of
14:57
S2: pulling together and trying to remember that a lot of
15:01
S2: what the community is focusing on now is healing. There
15:04
S2: was a church service this morning for people to gather.
15:07
S2: The food bank has been set up outside of the
15:08
S2: sorry business camp. The people of Alice Springs just want to,
15:13
S2: I guess, move forward as best as they can.
15:16
S1: And just on that point, I guess, about the sadness
15:18
S1: that people are feeling and the grief. I wanted to
15:21
S1: ask you about something that Katie Kiss, Aboriginal and Torres
15:24
S1: Strait Islander Social Justice commissioner has said, and she said, quote,
15:28
S1: I cannot recall a time when the disappearance of an
15:30
S1: Aboriginal child has received this level of urgent attention from
15:34
S1: law enforcement. My greatest hope is that kumanjayi little babies
15:37
S1: short life becomes a turning point that in this country,
15:40
S1: the life of an indigenous child is valued, protected and
15:43
S1: pursued with the same urgency as any other child. I
15:47
S1: just wanted to ask your reflections on that.
15:49
S2: Um, I suppose that, like I it's very important, I think,
15:53
S2: for people to understand here that, um, law enforcement have
15:59
S2: always cared about children in these sorts of situations, but
16:04
S2: it is incredibly fair to say that this is the
16:07
S2: biggest response I have ever seen in terms of a
16:11
S2: missing indigenous child becoming essentially front page news for across
16:16
S2: the country. It's been buoying, I would say to see
16:19
S2: everyone really care about this little girl. The donation points
16:23
S2: that have been set up. People are already pouring money
16:26
S2: into them. Uh, it is a really big flashpoint that
16:30
S2: hopefully will become the example for time in the future
16:34
S2: about how we treat these cases.
16:37
S1: And just to wrap up, Hannah, I wanted to ask
16:39
S1: you about your time spent with Kumanjayi little baby's family.
16:43
S1: If there was something about the way that they hope
16:45
S1: she'll be remembered, or perhaps a moment with them that
16:48
S1: you won't forget about what they've told you about this
16:50
S1: little girl.
16:51
S2: I really just want to highlight their graciousness. They are
16:55
S2: incredibly lovely, kind people, and their prevailing memories of Kumanjayi
17:00
S2: little baby is the fact that she was like every
17:04
S2: five year old little girl. She had a cat named yellow. Um,
17:07
S2: she loved holding her grandmother's hand and get walked around
17:10
S2: the community. She was obsessed with her iPad and would
17:13
S2: wear dresses that made her look like a little queen. Um,
17:16
S2: but she was absolutely loved beyond belief. And it has
17:23
S2: been so gorgeous to sit and in such an awful moment,
17:28
S2: witness that love.
17:30
S1: Well, thank you so much for your time.
17:34
S2: Thank you.
17:42
S1: Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Tammy Mills.
17:46
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S1: the show notes. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. Thanks for listening.