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Andy Stanley - From Strength to Strength with Arthur Brooks · Andy Stanley Sermons

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: to help leaders go further faster. I'm Andy Stanley, and
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: before we jump into today's content, I wanted to talk
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  Speaker 2: A and d y to five to five one two
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  Speaker 2: three Andy to five five one two three to get
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  Speaker 2: started again.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: No one can do it alone.
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  Speaker 2: Great leaders delegate, so get the support you need to
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: get out of the administrative weeds and back to growing
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: with Balay. And now let's jump into today's content. I
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: have been looking forward to this month's episode because we
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: have Arthur Brooks here to talk about his number one
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: New York Times bestselling book, From Strength to Strength. I
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: read it after it's released in February of last year,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: and I have been recommending this book to friends ever since.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: In fact, I cannot think of a book I have
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: recommended more in the last five, six, maybe ten years.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Every conversation I bring it up, every time I'm sitting
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: in front of leaders I'm like, have you read from
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Strength to Strength? And so I was so thrilled when
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Arthur agreed to come on the podcast. So, Arthur, welcome
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: to the Andie Stanley Leadership Podcast.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Andy wanted delight it is to be with you.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: I've and looking forward to this too. Thank you for
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: the good work that you're doing to improve leadership and
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: improve people's lives.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you saying that before we ju into
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: the content. Just for the half dozen or so folks
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: don't know who you are. Arthur Brooks is the William
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Henry Bloomberg Professor of the Practice of Public Leadership at
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  Speaker 2: the Harvard Kennedy School and Professor of Management Practice at
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: the Harvard Business School. Before joining the Harvard faculty, he
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: served for ten years as president of the Washington, DC
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: based American Enterprise Institute, one of the world's largest and
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: leading think tanks, and he talks all a good bit
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: about that in the book. He's also the author of
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  Speaker 2: eleven books or ten other books, I guess, including the
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: national bestseller Love Your Enemies that came out in twenty nineteen.
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  Speaker 2: He's a columnist for The Atlantic. He's the host of
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: this podcast, The Art of Happiness, and this was such
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: a cool thing. He was the subject or he's the
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: subject of the twenty nineteen documentary film The Pursuit, which
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: was named one of the best documentaries on Netflix in
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, which is a really big deal. He is
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: a sought after conference speaker in the US and Europe
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: and Asia, and so again we are so honored that
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: he chose to spend a few minutes with us today
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: on the podcast. So, Arthur, as we get started, would
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: you kind of give us for those who are unfamiliar
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: with the book, what is sort of the big picture
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: message of From Strength to Strength, and then we'll dive
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: into some details.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Well, this is the book written for people who are
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: trying to do a lot with their lives. And you know,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: I guess everybody wants to do a lot with their lives,
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: but not everybody's trying to do a lot with their lives,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: and that means a lot of different things to do
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: from people. Some people are workaholic, super ambitious people. Other
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  Speaker 3: people are just trying to live up to God's plan
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  Speaker 3: for their life and just doing the best that they
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  Speaker 3: possibly can. The problem is there's no manual for how
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: you can do the best you can with the resources
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: at your disposal, and nobody tells you how that the
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: tools that you have are going to change. And the
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: truth of the matter is that the harder you work
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: and the better you are what you do, and the
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: harder that you that you drive towards your ambition, the
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: more you're going to come face to face with the
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: fact that it's going to look like you've got burnout problems,
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: that you've got declined problems happening much.
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  Speaker 4: Earlier than you think.
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  Speaker 3: That's the first thing I confront the readers with in
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: this book, which is that in almost every profession, especially
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: professions that use our minds as much as our hands,
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: that most people, they they tend to peak in their
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: you know, their effectiveness in their late thirties, and by
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: their forties, they're tending to find themselves a little bit
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  Speaker 3: burned out and they find that they're I mean, nobody
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  Speaker 3: else is going to notice because they're so good to
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: what they do, but they're going to notice that they're
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: not making progress anymore. And that creates panic, It creates problems,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: It creates depression and anxiety, and and there's a solution
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  Speaker 3: to it. But you got to know the science and
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  Speaker 3: change your approach to life.
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  Speaker 4: That's what it's all about.
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  Speaker 2: Well, so I hope you don't take offense to this,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: but every time I recommend this book, I say to look,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: you're gonna have to make yourself finish the first chapter.
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And so you have to keep reading this.
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  Speaker 2: Book because you appropriately and brilliantly carve us all down
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  Speaker 2: to a nub, you know, in terms of how we
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: view ourselves, force us to face some reality. And again,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: this is why I just don't think a person can
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: read this book early enough. So the other thing is
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: the story of how you got interested in this is
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: so fascinating. So tell us a little bit about why
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: this became a passion for you.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm I've been a real striver my
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: whole life, like a lot of people. I mean, you
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: don't listen to the Andy Stanley podcast unless you're a striver.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Nobody knows slackers gonna say I think it. Listen to
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Andy Stanley podcast like I feel crummy about myself. Yeah,
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: people listen to this podcast so they can get fired
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: up and be better at what they do. And that
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: is certainly the case for me. I've been working hard
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: my whole life. I don't think I've ever worked less
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: than sixty or seventy hours a week. I've done a
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: lot of different things. But the truth of the matter
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: is that I noticed I was losing steam in my forties.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: I was running a company, I was running a big
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: think tank in Washington, d C. I was feeling less
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  Speaker 3: interested in my work. I was being I mean, I
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: I had energy, but it just wasn't I mean, it
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: just wasn't the same man. And I was wondering what's
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: wrong with me? And during that time, you know, thinking
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: where is this going to lead? Maybe I can get
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: a second wind. I don't know, I encountered. I had
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: this chance encounter on an airplane. I overheard a guy
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: behind me on an airplane one night. You know, I
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: was flying from Washington, or from LA to Washington, d C.
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  Speaker 3: Long flight, eleven o'clock a night, and I heard him
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  Speaker 3: confessing to his wife that he might as well be dead,
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: that nobody remembered him anymore. That nobody cared about him anymore.
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  Speaker 3: I could tell he was elderly, and I.
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  Speaker 4: Thought, well, at least I'm not that right, because that
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  Speaker 4: guy obviously didn't live. He never did anything with his life. Obviously.
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  Speaker 4: Now he's really disappointing. It's nearly over.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: We get to Washington and the lights turn on and
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: we all stand up, and I just you know, I'm
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  Speaker 3: a behavioral scientist. I want to see that the person
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  Speaker 3: on whom my benieves talking. Look my laboratory, My research
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: laboratory is overheard conversations, right as you know, I'm a
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  Speaker 3: social scientist. And I turned around and it was one
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  Speaker 3: of the most famous men.
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  Speaker 4: In the world.
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  Speaker 3: This is somebody that we all know. This is somebody
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  Speaker 3: who's achieved ten x what I'm going to do. He's
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: a legitimate hero. He's changed the course of American life
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: because of his achievements in the nineteen sixties and nineteen
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  Speaker 3: seventies for the better.
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  Speaker 4: He's made the world.
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  Speaker 3: And I heard him confessing to his wife he might
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  Speaker 3: as well be dead because his achievements were so far
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  Speaker 3: in the past.
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  Speaker 4: He didn't have anything to live for look forward to anymore.
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  Speaker 3: I thought, man is a rock in my world, because
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: the world tells you work hard, play by the rules,
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  Speaker 3: achieve like crazy, be successful, bank it, die happy, and
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  Speaker 3: that's wrong. The truth of the matter is you need
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: a current plan to continue to create value with your life.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: And your skills and abilities and strengths are going to change,
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  Speaker 3: so you better know what that's going to mean, and
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: you better plug into what you do well so that
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  Speaker 3: you can adapt according to your abilities as you get older.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that opening illustration that you come back to at
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  Speaker 2: the end of the book is so compelling, and I'm
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: sure every person who's ever read this book who met
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: you as like, tell me who it is.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: They all want to know. That's the best catch.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: Well's off limits. And the only reason a couple of reasons.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: Number one is that you know, I made a deal
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: with my publisher that I would take it to my grave.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: But more practically speaking, it could be so many people,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: and who would want to defame somebody's reputation simply to
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: make a point or for the curiosity that comes from that.
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  Speaker 4: Look, we're all cut from the same cloth.
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  Speaker 3: We're all we're I mean, we got feet to clay,
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: is the whole point, and we should be able to
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  Speaker 3: learn from each other from both strengths and weaknesses.
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  Speaker 2: So, as we talked about a little bit before we began,
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  Speaker 2: You're not the first person to enter this space and
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: write into this space in terms of second half of
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: figuring out what's next and all the.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Sorts of things. But and I've read some of those books.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: But honestly, your insights and your solutions are unique, and
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: your applications are extremely practical. And I'm going to try
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: not to interrupt you in the next two or three
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: minutes to tell you what I learned from the book,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: because this is for our listeners. So tease this out
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: a little bit and talk about these different kinds of intelligence,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: because that's.
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  Speaker 1: Kind of the framework going forward.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, So what I set out to do after having
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: this experience, I went home and I told my wife Esther.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: I said, sweetheart, I do not want to be having
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: that conversation with you on the plane forty years now.
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  Speaker 3: I do not want to be telling you that I
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: might as well be dead. And she said, well, look,
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: you suffered through your social scientist. You got a PhD
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: for a reason, right, why don't you use that knowledge
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: for something practical and solve the problem.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: A good wife, Yeah, she's all a good wife.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, like she leads me and leads me in
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: paths of righteousness. Yeah, I mean, if I get into heaven.
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  Speaker 4: It's because of my wife. But she wants me to
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: be happy.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: On this side of the mortal coil too, And I said, yeah,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: it makes perfect sense. So my goal was to see
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: do people who are successful, do they tend to be
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: happier or unhappier in old age?
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  Speaker 4: And how can I be happier and.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: Actually create a lot of value dedicating my work to
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: the good of others and the glory of God and
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: all the things and enjoy it? So how can I
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: get all of those things at the same time as possible?
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: And one of the first things that I found is
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: that people who tend to be most disappointed with their
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: lives after seventy are the people who have the most
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  Speaker 3: success early in their lives.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: I did not expect that.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: I expected to find that people who are more successful
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: earlier would be happier later, and it's the opposite for
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: a couple of different reasons. Number one is that hard
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: charging strivers tend to have unbelievably high standards for themselves.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: It's really hard to live up to your mother's standards.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: It's even harder to live up to your own standards.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: And when you get old, it's going to be that
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: much harder and you're not going to see the kind
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: of success coming and that's going to be incredibly disappointing.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: That's number one.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Number two is just the contrast between the big party
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: that you've had and the fact that it's over is
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: very disappointing. So the result of that is that you
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: need to think very differently about the second half of
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: your life and you do the first half.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Of your life.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: You can't keep doing what you were doing and hoping
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: that you'll be able to enjoy it and it won't
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: diminish and it won't wind up bringing you a whole
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: lot of bitterness and unhappiness. So that leads to the
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: really big, the big solution to how to be successful
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: and playing to your strengths and get happier as you
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: get older. And the number one thing to keep in
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: to keep in mind is that your intelligence changes.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: Now, this is a big neuroscientific.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: And social scientific point, but I'm making the book, and
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: the book is based around this idea.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: There's two intelligence curves.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Now everybody knows about IQ and knows about you know,
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: you're able to give a go to satscore whatever.
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: That's not what I'm talking about.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about two different kinds of intelligence that you
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: have in the early part of your life and the
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: later part of your life.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: And the early part of your life you.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Have an abundance what social psychologists called fluid intelligence. That's
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: working memory, that's innovative capacity, that's the ability to focus.
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: That's you get much better at.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: Doing what you're doing because you hone your skills and
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: just through raw horsepower ten thousand hours of practice, you
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: get much better at it. So everybody is listening to
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: us right now, and who's a financial planner, a lawyer,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: a doctor, all the people that want to be better leaders,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: you know, business leaders, or you know even people who
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: are not in traditional businesses, but they got a lot
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: of responsibilities.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: They get better and better and better.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Through the twenties and thirties just based on their hard
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: work and personal responsibility. All of those abilities, based on
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: your ability to solve problems, innovate, remember things. Those all
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: peak in your late thirties or early forties and start
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: to decline.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Now I have to stop you there, because that is
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: the part of the book where everybody goes what late twenties, thirties,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: you know that, you know, everybody's thinking no, forties.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: And fifties, yeah, or sixties.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But this is an important revelation. And to
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: acknowledge that anyway didn't mean I just didn't want to
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: know by that, because people are going to think, did
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I hear that correctly?
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: I know? Thirty nine is the magic age.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Thirty nine is the is the is the that the
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: year of highest productivity and quality? Or for surgeons, financial planners,
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Wall Street brokers, for electricians, for judges, for classical musicians.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: For writers.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've just it's just it's uncanny scientists, thirty nine,
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: thirty years again, you're over the hill at well, no, no,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: you're at your max at thirty nine.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: The problem is then you're over the hill. You're on
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: the long side of the hill.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: And the key thing is you can be pretty close
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: to the top of your game, but if you're not
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: getting better, you don't like it. God made us to
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: make progress. That's how he wired us to make progress.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: You know, keep going, keep going. You wanted us to
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: keep going across the Sinai and get into the Promised
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Land and the milk Land of milk and honey and
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: be like, hey, it's pretty good in the Sinai.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: Let's stay here. Huh.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: That's not how God made us, that's my view, but
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: that's actually how how evolutionary biologists understand the human species
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: as well. That's the reason that my dentist at forty three,
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: she's a great dentist. She's the best dentist in town.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: She stopped working Fridays.
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: And started golfing. It's like, do you like golfing? Says
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: and not. I hate golfing, but I got to do
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: something because I'm so burnt out. How are you burnt out?
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: The reason is she didn't know it. She's still great.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: She wasn't making progress, she was making regress. That's the
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: bad news. That's the two by four across the chops
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: that you talked about in the first chapter.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Of this book. Okay, now the good news.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: There's a second intelligence curve that comes in behind it
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: that you get better and better and better at in
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: your forties and fifties and sixties, and you stay high
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: in your seventies and eighties and nineties. If you've got
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: your marbles. That's called crystallized intelligence. That does not require
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: working memory. Thank god, I can't remember anything anymore. It
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: does not require innovative capacity. What it requires is pattern
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: recognition and good judgment and tons of wisdom. In other words,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: when you're in your twenties and thirties, you can solve
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: any problem. When you're in your fifties and sixties, you
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: know which problems to solve. You know, in your twenties
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: and thirties you're the hot shot. In your fifties and sixties,
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: you can identify the next generation of hot shots. That's
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: why you should be a startup entrepreneur at thirty five,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: and you should be a venture capitalists at sixty. You
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: should be the you know, the the star litigator at
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: thirty five. You should be the managing partner.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: At sixty five. That's what exploits these.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Different intelligence curves. Here's the problem, Andy, everybody who's got
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: this unbelievably high fluid intelligence and hard work and just
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: offering it up and just digging it, man, they want
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: to stay on that curve forever, and they end up
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: surfing that curve all the way back down through the
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: forties and fifties and wondering what's wrong with them?
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: Answer?
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Nothing, You got to get on the next curve, even
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: if it's hard, even if it's scary, And that's what
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: this book is, how to do it?
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Before we continue, as I mentioned at the top of
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: the broadcast, our sponsor Balay is offering their leadership Toolkit
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: free to our listeners. With it, you'll learn steps you
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: can take as a leader to accomplish more and juggle less. Again,
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  Speaker 2: just text the word Andy A n D Y to
• 15:49
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  Speaker 2: and in no time you will be back to doing
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: what only you can do, which is growing your organization.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: So practically speaking, so what if you could kind of
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: condense and let me just say to our listeners, regardless
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: of how good this conversation.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Is, you got to get this book. We're skipping over
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: so much stuff.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: But anyway, the majority of folks listening are probably between
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: twenty five and fifty five, So what is kind of
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: the takeaway as they think about second half happiness or
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: again making the jump from a fluid to crystallized intelligence.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: So the key thing is if you get on your
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: second curve, then you will be happier than you were
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: in the first part of your life. Greater happiness is
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: in your future, by the way, a better marriage is
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: in your future. A better relationship with your kids is
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: in your future, a better a better understanding of your.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: Relationship with God is in your future.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: But you got to get on that second curve because
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: that's your's that's when you're in the zone of your
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: maximum effectiveness, and that's when you're living up to what
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: you can uniquely do well.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: It takes humility because you have to step back from it.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: It requires that you exhibit a lot of virtues like
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: you know, as I said, humility, but also a whole
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: lot of courage, a whole lot of ability to say,
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: this isn't going to go in the right direction, but
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: I'm confident that there's something better in my future. Okay,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: then there's a whole bunch of things to do. There's
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: a whole bunch of things to do that makes it
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: easier and more fun to begin with.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Make this thing sound fun for us, please?
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: The number one thing that people get wrong when they're
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: stuck on their first curve. When they're stuck trying to
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: do what they always did, and it's getting harder and
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: more boring and more turgid, and they hate it. The
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: one thing that all have in common is that they
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: think that they're going to be happier if they're doing more,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: getting more, experiencing more, meeting more people, having.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: More and more and more and more of everything.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: What all people who are really good at getting older
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: have in common, who get older and are happier having
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: common is they start to master the art of subtraction
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: as opposed to addition. You know, one of the things
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: that we find is that everybody on the first curve,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: they satisfaction comes to them as as a function of
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: all the things that they have, and they're four for more.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Satisfaction is having more. That doesn't just mean more money.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: It also means more power, and more experiences and more relationships,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: and more prestige and more admiration and more agulation more.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: But the key thing that everybody learns who masters this
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: is that your satisfaction is a function of all the
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: things that you have, divided by all the things that
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: you want. In other words, say that again, yeah, haves
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: divided by wants.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: Now think about that's a fraction.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: That model is very important because one way to have
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: more satisfaction is to have more, but that's inefficient when
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: you've got a lot already. That numerator is huge. What
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: you need is to be efficient is to start managing
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: your wants. If you start decreasing the denominator, decreasing your wants,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: you're going to find so.
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: Much more satisfaction than you've had in the past.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Every year on your birthday after forty five, you should
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: have a reverse bucket list all the stuff that you're
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: not going to be attached to anymore, all the things
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: that you're going to give away, all the things that
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: are distracting you from the things that you really want.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: The better marriage that you need, the greater worship that
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: you need, the understanding of your life that you need.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: This is being distracted by the.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Stuff, the toxic relationships, the dumb things that you do
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: every day, the ambitions that are weighing you down.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: All of the people on.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: The second curve who are really successful and happy, what
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: they have in common is that they have a subtraction
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: strategy about their own lives as opposed to just an
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: edition strategy.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And that is so not intuitive.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Totally totally man.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, well, let me just tell you a break
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: through moment for me as I was reading this book,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: because it falls into that category. You tell a story
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: about I don't know if these were your words you
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: used to describe this man, or if this was his words,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I can't remember, but essentially you were explaining this to
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: someone and they just weren't willing to do it, and
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: essentially you said on their behalf or they said that
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I'm going to read this to you, that they would
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: rather be special than happy. Yeah, they would rather be
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: special than happy. When I read that, for the first
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: time in my life, I was willing to acknowledge that
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: I like being special and that that could be the
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: thing that in my refusal to give up the you
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: know what I'm doing, where I'm doing, and who I know,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: why I get invited all that stuff. I went home
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: until Sandra I said listen to this, and I've gotten
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: up in front of our entire staff and talked about
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: this to say, hey, I don't think I was ever
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: willing to admit to myself how addicted I am to
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: being special, but that trade off special to happy, I mean.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Talk a little gag about that. Yeah, it's an absolute
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: game changer. So one of the things that it's worth
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: keeping in mind. A lot of people, you know, they're
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: not big hippies listening to us, but they have kind
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: of the hippie mantra that if it feels good, do it.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: That if something really you really really want something, if
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: you follow your instincts, it must be because that's going
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: to make you happier.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: That's wrong.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Mother nature only has two goals for you and me
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: and everybody listening to us. She wants you to survive
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: and pass on your genes. She does not care if
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: you're happy. Happy is not selected in evolutionary terms, it's
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: just not now if we think about it, for those
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: of us who are people of faith, you've got animal
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: nature and you've got divine nature. If you just do
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: what feels good, you're following your animal nature and you're
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: going to pass on your genes and you're gonna survive.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: Your divine nature.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Is to bring you closer to the source of good
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: in your life, and that's what's going to bring happiness.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: And that means you're gonna have to do a lot
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: of things that don't feel natural.
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: Look, sin feels natural. Sin doesn't feel unnatural.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: The problem is sin is the most natural thing, right,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: That's what it means to be fallen. But the point
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: is that we rebel against our nature, and that's what
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: brings us to divinity. That's what brings us to we're
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: really supposed to be as people. Okay, now back to
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: the whole conundrum, the story that you're talking about.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: I was talking to this woman my age on Wall Street.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: She's, you know, I'm in my late fifties and she's
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: in her late fifties and she's killing it.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: Dude.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: I mean she's she's made probably a billion dollars, she
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: has a firm named after her. She's just she's doing
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: everything right. Okay, but you talk to her and she says, yeah,
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: are you happy?
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: No? Why not?
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Well, my husband and I were roommates. I think I
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: have a kind of a cordial relationship with my kids.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: I'm not making crisp decisions in my firm.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: I don't like it as much as I used to,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: but I don't know what else to do. I'm drinking
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: too much. The doctor has given me bad reports.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: What do I do? Professor?
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, you don't need a Harvard nerd to
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: tell you what to do. You know, you know exactly
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: what to do.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: You just told me. Step back from your firm, take.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: A souvenir in your company, go away with your husband,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: get back into church. Got alcoholics anonymous? Come on, man,
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: what are you doing?
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: Why? She says? You know, I know, I say, so
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: why not?
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: And she says, because I always chose to be special
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: rather than happy boom man my job, because I'm not
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: going to kid y andy. Me too, me too, And
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: she said it was like it was like a knife
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: to my heart. You know, I can't tell you I
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: was I was a CEO before I did this, before
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: I was teaching at Harvard.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: And I can't tell you the number of nights.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: That I worked the fourteenth hour as opposed to going
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: for the first hour with my children. And I missed
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: those years they grew up. Now I don't have to
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: repeat those errors because in two weeks I'm going to
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: be a grandfather.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: You probably already are, right, just four months ago, beautiful yeah.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: And with my adult children, by the way, each one
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: of them spends time with me every day, whether they
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: like it or not. And part of the reason is
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: because I'm gonna be happy. I'm gonna be happy as
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: opposed to continuing to be special in this particular way.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: But if you follow your animal nature, if you follow
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: your instincts and your urges, you will always choose special.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: And if you choose special, you're simply not gonna have
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: the happiness that comes. And the happiness comes because of love.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: Specialness comes because of achievement. Happiness comes because of love.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. You touched on this earlier.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: One of the obstacles to even moving into this direction
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: is our pride or our lack of humility. I wrote
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: down two quotes from the book that again I just
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: carried around on my notes, So just comment on these.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: To share your weakness without carrying what other people think
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: is kind of a superpower. To share your weakness without
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: carrying what other people think is kind of a superpower.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And the second one was this sharing weakness is the
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: ultimate subversion against your special, objectified self. The concept of
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: an objectified self is so powerful. And I've never heard
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: that phrase before, but that's exactly what we do, objectify ourselves,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: and that makes me special. And I have to maintain
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: special in around and round and round, I go and
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: talk about that whole humility thing, because you know, it
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: takes humility to step off the treadmill.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Totally, totally, but that humility is truly one of the
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: great game changing things that and again, I mean we
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: learned this in every philosophy and theology class, that you
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: know you're driven toward these vices and that the heavenly
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: virtues that accompany them don't feel natural, and yet they
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: are what actually will bring blis.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: Is what it comes down to. Humility is a perfect case.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: The deadliest of the deadly sins in Dante's Inferno is pride,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: you know, and how does pride work. You're holding yourself
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: up as something unbelievably special all the time, and you
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: will live in fear. You will live an absolute, mortified
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: fear of anything that threatens your ego or threatens your
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: vision of who you're supposed to be as a person. Now,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: we all grew up, I mean most of us grew
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: up in good families. And my father would have said,
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: it's a grave sin for you to objectify a woman,
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: for you to reduce a woman to her physical characteristics
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: and her good looks, and then use her in any
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: way that sinful will be unto you. I'm sure your
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: father taught you the same thing, and we're trying to
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: teach our sons the same thing, and yet we do
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: that to ourselves, not physically. In the contrary, you say, Okay,
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: why am I a workaholic? Why am I workholic? Because
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: I'm addicted to success? Why am I addicted to success?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: Because I just want to be the special one? What
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: is the special one? The rich CEO? That's the special one.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: That is an object that is reducing myself to my job,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: characteristics and my money. And that is a sinful thing
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: to do. Plus it will make me miserable. So what
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: do you have to do? You have to say, basically,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: I'm just a guy. I'm just a guy. You know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: I'm just a guy like any other person. And to
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: declare your humility and your weakness. This is Saint Paul's
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: characteristic insight. He said, when I'm weak, I am strong.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: In the Epistles of Paul, you know, when he's talking
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: to the Corinthians about the thorn in his flesh, he's
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: admitting that he's just mortal. He's admitting that he's not strong.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Why because he wants to he wants to connect himself
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: in a mortal way. The shortest verse in the Bible
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: is John eleven thirty five two words Jesus wept why
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: because he was connecting himself at the weakest point to
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: what it meant to be a person. And yet I'm
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: so special, I'm so strong, I'm so awesome that I
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: couldn't even live up to the standard of my savior
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: In John eleven thirty five.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: That's craziness. That is complete craziness.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: So here's the thing.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: If you can break through that veil, if you can
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: get there, man, if you can get through it and
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: say I'm weak, I'm.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: Not so special.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: I just it's interesting. I just did this analysis, did
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: this research. Can I write this call in The Atlantic
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: every week? And I just wrote this column. It's going
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: to come out in a few weeks, maybe about the
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: time that this episode airs, about why is it that
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: so many young people are miserable today? And they answer
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: fundamentally is that they're lonely and they're isolated, and they
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: don't have romance. They're a third less likely to be
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: in love than we were in the nineteen eighties when
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: we were that age. Why and The answer is because
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: they have attachment of avoidance. It's an attachment style that
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: psychologists call avoidant attachment. Why and the reason is because
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: they have been told their whole lives that they're the
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: special one.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: When you're the special one, so a.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: Force field against loving others and being loved.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Everybody in our studio is dying laughing. That's pretty brilliant.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: It is a say that again. The feeling of being
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: special is a force field against.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: It's a force field against loving and being loved. It's
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: like your plexi glass shield against the things that you
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: most want. So you're walking around saying, I'm so lowly,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: I just want to find a partner, I just want love,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: and somebody comes towards you and they bump into your
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: specialness that play.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: And you bump into theirs too, if both people are
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: trying to be most special.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not you work.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: It's like late on the line, man, late on the line,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: that you're weak and you need love and you're lonely,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: and it's okay, it's okay.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's all say it together. I'm pathetic and so
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: are you right, that's right.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Love me the way I am and by the way,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: they will, they will be the way that you are.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: So any sort of high level tips about discovering your
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: crystallized intelligence. You have so much in the book about
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: how to figure out what's next based on because they're connected,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: the fluid intelligence crystallized, they're connected.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, so good.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: The fluid intellig is interesting because it's your instructor curve.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: Think about it as your your Your fluid intelligence is
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: your Mark Zuckerberg innovation curve. Your crystallized intelligence is your
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: professor curve. That's where you share your knowledge, That's where
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: you share your wisdom.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: Now, what are you going to be.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: Good at identifying talent, finding patterns using your experience. That's
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: what it comes down to. So the way to think
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: about this is, in my world, whatever it happens to be,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: I used to be inventing new things. I want to
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: find the next group of people that are going to
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: be inventing new things. I want to be helping the
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: next group of people that are going to be working hard.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: I want to find some way to become a teacher.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Now that means different things for different people. As I
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: mentioned before, you know, a venture capitalist is a teacher
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: of young entrepreneurs. You're teaching with this podcast, you couldn't
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: have done such a good I mean, this podcast.
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: Has millions of listeners.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: If you had done this thirty years ago, when you
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: were in your early thirties, this would not been successful.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: I mean maybe you were that good. But you know what,
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: the reason that this is important is because you're talking
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: to me, and every question you're asking me, I can
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: tell it. I can tell what you're doing right now
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: because you're a master teacher. You're trying to draw answers
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: out of me that are going to teach the people
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: who are listening to us. You are on your teaching curve.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: That's why this is the right thing for you to do. Okay,
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: every single person listening to us, who's going from in
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: from the thirties to their forties to their fifties, say,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: what is the teaching version of me? Maybe it's literally teaching.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: That's a great question.
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: I quit my job as the CEO and became a professor.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: What is the teaching version of me?
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: That's the question.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: And you think that everyone can discover an answer to
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: that question.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: Every single person you're going from your parent curve to
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: your grandparent curve. Think about it that way, right, where
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: you're you know, you're you're sitting in a rocking chair
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: saying profound things as opposed to running around trying to
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: solve every problem.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: I mean, this is there's a there's a version of this.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: And interestingly, you know, I talk to a lot of
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: people and people about this, and a lot of people
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: will ask me, how is it different.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: Than men and women?
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: And it's a very interesting difference between the two. Women
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: are much better at getting on their crystallized intelligence curves now,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: especially women who had a more conventional first half of
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: their life. So for example, women who stayed home with
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: their kids and raised their families and use their fluid
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: intelligence curves to raise their kids, they have a very
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: seamless way. They find a lot of ease and stepping
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: onto their crystallized intelligence curve because sometimes it's the first
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: time that they've worked full time outside the home, and
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: so they just go and do what people want them
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: to do, and they're naturally good at. Meanwhile, their husbands
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: are depressed and having a hard time. They're like, I
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: don't know, man, it used to because I'm so burned out,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: I'm so depressed.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: And their wives are.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I don't know, man, I've had a great
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: time here. Life is pretty sweet. So there's a there's
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: a path for everybody. For some people, it's harder, and
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: the more successfully you're on your fluid intelligence curve, the
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: harder it's going to be to have this confidence, which
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: means you're gonna have to put your heart into it,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: and offered.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Up, Wow, well as you could tell, I could talk
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: to you all afternoon.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: And this book, I know you've written ten other books
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: that I get that right, So I mean, who's counting?
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: I mean you mean good books or bad books written on.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Some other You've written some other books.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: But this book is a gift to all the striver
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And that's the words you use in the book, the strivers,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: So for all the strivers out there, content junkies, trying
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: to get it better, trying to go forward.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: And I think what Arthur said are we are created
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: to make progress.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: We're created to move things forward, and that's the natural
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: thing we need to lean into. And this is not
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: a matter of not making any more progress. It's just
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: getting off the first phase of progress to really make
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: more progress. The way that we were wired that's best
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: connected to that first half you've given us a lot
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: to think about. So I've loved this conversation. I know
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: our podcast listeners have as well. Unfortunately we run out
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: of time, so thanks so much for being here and
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: to all our listeners.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Please pick up a copy of From.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Strength to Strength by Arthur Brooks, and be sure you
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: visit the Indie Stanley dot com website where you can
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: download a leadership podcast application guide that includes a summary
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: of this discussion and questions for reflection for you and
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: your entire team. And don't forget to join us next
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: month on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast