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"The Tucker Carlson Caucus." · Pod Save America

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
0:22
Speaker 2: I'm John Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.
0:24
Speaker 1: On today's show, the Biden administration waffles on its pledge
0:26
Speaker 1: to take in more refugees. Three Republicans try to start
0:29
Speaker 1: a white nationalist caucus in the House of Representatives. And
0:32
Speaker 1: Crooked Media political director Shaniqua McClendon joins us to talk
0:35
Speaker 1: about our brand new filibuster whip count, where you can
0:38
Speaker 1: see exactly where your Democratic senator stands on eliminating the
0:41
Speaker 1: rule that's standing in the way of just about everything
0:43
Speaker 1: good in the world. But first, in case you missed it,
0:46
Speaker 1: check out Pod Save the People, where co-host Kaya Henderson
0:49
Speaker 1: sat down with Oscar-nominated director Shaka King to talk about
0:53
Speaker 1: Judas and the Black Messiah. Fantastic interview. Fantastic show, as always.
0:58
Speaker 1: DeRay and the gang have been doing some great work lately,
1:00
Speaker 1: covering a lot of really important news. Go check it out.
1:04
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the news. One of the
1:06
Speaker 1: many awful legacies of Trump's presidency was his decision to
1:09
Speaker 1: turn away thousands of refugees trying to escape war and
1:13
Speaker 1: persecution in some of the most desperate places in the world.
1:16
Speaker 1: Up until 2016, the United States took in about 80,000
1:20
Speaker 1: refugees each year. That was true under both Democratic and
1:23
Speaker 1: Republican presidents. By Trump's last year in office, however, the
1:26
Speaker 1: cap was down to 15,000, one five, and he essentially
1:30
Speaker 1: banned refugees from majority Muslim and African countries. On Friday,
1:34
Speaker 1: Joe Biden signed an order that ended that ban, but
1:37
Speaker 1: left in place the historically low cap of 15,000 refugees,
1:41
Speaker 1: saying it, quote, remains justified by humanitarian concerns and is
1:46
Speaker 1: otherwise in the national interest. Dozens of Democratic members of
1:50
Speaker 1: Congress immediately criticized the decision, including leaders like Nancy Pelosi
1:54
Speaker 1: and Dick Durbin. And just hours later, the White House
1:56
Speaker 1: said that they would increase the cap by May 15th,
1:59
Speaker 1: though they said it's unlikely that they'd hit the target
2:02
Speaker 1: of 62,500 refugees that they promised Congress back in February. Tommy,
2:08
Speaker 1: what do you think is going on here? And what
2:10
Speaker 1: are the consequences of the administration dragging its feet on
2:13
Speaker 1: this issue?
2:14
Speaker 3: So, I mean, for the issue itself, I think I
2:17
Speaker 3: would sort of divide it into human consequences for these
2:19
Speaker 3: individuals and then political consequences around the refugees debate. So
2:24
Speaker 3: a little more backstory, like back in February, President Biden
2:27
Speaker 3: delivered a speech at the State Department where he said
2:30
Speaker 3: that the Biden administration would set the refugee cap for
2:33
Speaker 3: next fiscal year at 125,000. And then about a week later,
2:38
Speaker 3: the State Department sent a report to Congress saying it
2:40
Speaker 3: would admit 62,500 refugees by September 30th of this year,
2:45
Speaker 3: so the end of this fiscal year. So that would
2:47
Speaker 3: get him above the historical average. It's very good. But
2:50
Speaker 3: then the White House just sort of mysteriously didn't sign
2:53
Speaker 3: the presidential determination that actually formalizes the decision and makes
2:57
Speaker 3: it happen. I remember Ben and I talked about this
2:58
Speaker 3: on Pod Save the World last week because we were
3:00
Speaker 3: sort of confused by it. And we chalked it up
3:02
Speaker 3: to like the staffing not being in place.
3:04
Speaker 2: We just didn't really know.
3:05
Speaker 3: So the human consequence of that, though, is you have
3:07
Speaker 3: tens of thousands of refugees who have been fully vetted
3:10
Speaker 3: and they're just sitting in limbo. Many times they're in
3:13
Speaker 3: like very dangerous refugee camps. You have flights getting canceled.
3:16
Speaker 3: You have like pregnant moms who can no longer travel
3:19
Speaker 3: because they missed their window where they could get on
3:22
Speaker 3: a plane or And then the consequence in general was
3:25
Speaker 3: the U.S. was on pace to let in fewer refugees
3:28
Speaker 3: than any president in history, less than Trump. So that's
3:31
Speaker 3: just devastating for the human beings here who are like
3:33
Speaker 3: trying to get out of someplace where they had to escape.
3:37
Speaker 3: The political consequences, I think, are that the decision felt
3:41
Speaker 3: pretty heartless to a lot of progressives and to activist groups.
3:44
Speaker 3: And then it kicked up this conversation about refugee admissions
3:48
Speaker 3: and That is probably unhelpful because you can remember when
3:50
Speaker 3: Trump would demagogue this, he made them all sound like,
3:53
Speaker 3: you know, terrorists were sneaking in through this program when
3:55
Speaker 3: really they're the most heavily vetted of anyone admitted into
3:58
Speaker 3: the U.S. And I just think the Biden folks could
4:00
Speaker 3: have avoided this whole dust up if they just signed
4:03
Speaker 3: this presidential determination back in February since they'd already owned
4:07
Speaker 3: the higher number.
4:08
Speaker 2: So it was a very confounding.
4:12
Speaker 4: Issue.
4:12
Speaker 3: I couldn't figure out what the hell happened on Friday.
4:15
Speaker 1: Lovett, could you figure it out? I feel like I
4:16
Speaker 1: read every story about this. And, you know, I was
4:19
Speaker 1: trying to give the Biden administration the benefit of the
4:22
Speaker 1: doubt here. You know, on one hand, they said, well,
4:25
Speaker 1: it's taken some extra time to figure this out and
4:28
Speaker 1: to bring these refugees in because the Trump administration decimated
4:31
Speaker 1: the program. So you can sort of see that. They
4:33
Speaker 1: said that the Office of Refugee Resettlement has been under
4:36
Speaker 1: particular strain because it's also the office that deals with
4:39
Speaker 1: the unaccompanied migrant children that are coming in, that are
4:42
Speaker 1: coming over the border to the south. of course, people
4:45
Speaker 1: pointed out those are two separate funding buckets, two separate
4:50
Speaker 1: staffs that deal with that, even though they are all
4:52
Speaker 1: under the same office. So I couldn't really figure out
4:56
Speaker 1: what the holdup was since they ultimately have said now, okay,
5:00
Speaker 1: we're going to try to hit that 125,000 number by
5:04
Speaker 1: next fiscal year.
5:05
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is strange. I was having the same challenge.
5:08
Speaker 5: I think there's a political question, a communications question, and
5:13
Speaker 5: the policy question. What I didn't understand on the policy
5:17
Speaker 5: front is there really are practical challenges that were created
5:21
Speaker 5: by the Trump administration that seemed to be a big
5:23
Speaker 5: part of this. So they lowered the cap to 15,000.
5:26
Speaker 5: According to the Times, citizenship and immigration services had reduced
5:31
Speaker 5: funding for even fewer officers than the 350 that were
5:33
Speaker 5: there in 2017, but there were only 136 by the
5:34
Speaker 5: end of last year, 105 offices where refugees could settle
5:41
Speaker 5: were closed by April of 2019. The Trump administration closed
5:45
Speaker 5: field offices all over the world. A lot of private organizations,
5:48
Speaker 5: due to lack of funding, had to close their resettlement offices.
5:52
Speaker 5: So like, I do think part of this, and both,
5:54
Speaker 5: you know, Jen Psaki has said this, Jake Sullivan has said,
5:56
Speaker 5: have said this, that they have to rebuild the resettlement program.
6:00
Speaker 5: That's now, is that an excuse?
6:03
Speaker 2: Is that real?
6:03
Speaker 5: I think it's probably both and probably leans more towards
6:06
Speaker 5: having a real logistical challenge of standing this thing back
6:10
Speaker 5: up quickly. Then you go to Tommy's point about sort
6:13
Speaker 5: of the confusing communications. And what I don't understand is
6:16
Speaker 5: they were going to sign this thing in February and
6:19
Speaker 5: then ratify the 15,000 cap was the goal to kind
6:22
Speaker 5: of under promise and over deliver, which has kind of
6:25
Speaker 5: been a political philosophy of how they do things, where
6:27
Speaker 5: they caught off guard by the reaction to the delay.
6:30
Speaker 5: I'm really not sure.
6:31
Speaker 1: Yeah.
6:33
Speaker 5: And then also there are political considerations that I think, look,
6:36
Speaker 5: they're ultimately going to increased dramatically the number of refugees admitted.
6:47
Speaker 5: That doesn't change what Tommy points out is the real
6:51
Speaker 5: hardship this causes for people stuck waiting right now in
6:55
Speaker 5: desperate circumstance. Now, if the issue is the politics of it,
7:00
Speaker 5: if they are going to raise the cap, they're going
7:01
Speaker 5: to pay for that politics at some point. So it's
7:03
Speaker 5: the issue that oh, this is just an acute moment.
7:06
Speaker 5: We're having both of these stories at once, like makes
7:08
Speaker 5: it something that'll be more lasting. I really, I don't
7:11
Speaker 5: totally know. I don't totally understand it.
7:13
Speaker 6: Yeah.
7:13
Speaker 1: I want to get into the politics of it because,
7:15
Speaker 1: you know, CNN and the Washington Post both have sources
7:17
Speaker 1: on background saying that the original order stemmed in part
7:19
Speaker 1: from fear that it would fuel the political attacks on
7:23
Speaker 1: Biden's border and immigration policies. And then fucking, you know,
7:27
Speaker 1: C-plus Santa Monica fascist Stephen Miller popped up on Twitter
7:31
Speaker 1: and said that the announcement reflects Team Biden's awareness that
7:34
Speaker 1: what's happening at the border will cause, quote, record midterm losses. Tommy,
7:39
Speaker 1: how valid do you think the political concerns are here?
7:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, Stephen Miller.
7:42
Speaker 3: Stephen Miller would blame any problem on immigrants if he could.
7:44
Speaker 3: So I don't give a shit what he says. I mean,
7:46
Speaker 3: I don't want to come off as like the righteous,
7:48
Speaker 3: pure policy guy here who's saying do the right thing,
7:51
Speaker 3: because it is incumbent on every White House to make
7:53
Speaker 3: the best policy decision in but then also execute on
7:56
Speaker 3: those decisions with the best political strategy so that you
7:58
Speaker 3: can actually get them done.
7:59
Speaker 2: And administrations get themselves in trouble, I.
8:01
Speaker 3: Think, when they view things as purely policy decisions and
8:04
Speaker 3: they don't think through the political considerations or the hoops
8:07
Speaker 3: you have to jump through to actually execute. A good
8:10
Speaker 3: example for us was Obama's attempt to close the prison
8:13
Speaker 3: at Guantanamo Bay. The prison became a recruiting tool for terrorists.
8:16
Speaker 2: It was immoral. It was expensive. Republicans wanted it closed.
8:19
Speaker 2: It felt like a no-brainer.
8:21
Speaker 3: But then you get to the how and the challenges
8:22
Speaker 3: of where you have to resettle people and where you
8:24
Speaker 3: do the prosecutions, and how you prosecute terrorists or suspected terrorists.
8:28
Speaker 3: And lo and behold, we fucked up the politics so
8:31
Speaker 3: badly that Congress swept in and made.
8:33
Speaker 2: It impossible to close on a bipartisan basis.
8:35
Speaker 3: So all that's just to say, I think the Biden
8:38
Speaker 3: team is right to think about potential political attacks around immigration,
8:41
Speaker 3: around the border, around refugees. And they're absolutely right to
8:44
Speaker 3: predict that the Republican Party will continue to demagogue these issues.
8:49
Speaker 3: You know, like Trump, I think during the campaign said,
8:51
Speaker 3: Biden will turn Minnesota into a refugee camp, right? Like
8:54
Speaker 3: that was how racist and terrible he was on these issues.
8:58
Speaker 3: I'm sure he was directing that towards Ilhan Omar.
9:01
Speaker 2: But I think.
9:02
Speaker 3: The back and forth last week was the worst of
9:04
Speaker 3: both worlds because now the left and the right are
9:06
Speaker 3: the mad and there's renewed focus on this problem that
9:10
Speaker 3: I don't think was really part of the conversation. So
9:13
Speaker 3: I think politically, if they had just signed this presidential
9:15
Speaker 3: determination in February, it would have been part of a
9:18
Speaker 3: flurry of news like Ted Cruz and the gang are
9:20
Speaker 3: going to keep visiting the border. Fox News will find
9:23
Speaker 3: a new caravan just in time for the midterms. You
9:26
Speaker 3: can't stop bad faith attacks. But I don't know that
9:29
Speaker 3: this would have been a part of it. I just
9:31
Speaker 3: I don't quite get how they're linked.
9:41
Speaker 1: I think the big question on immigration for the Biden administration,
9:45
Speaker 1: and it seems like they're wrestling with this, is how
9:47
Speaker 1: do you pursue immigration? policies that you believe are right,
9:52
Speaker 1: but may not be as politically popular as some other policies, right?
9:57
Speaker 1: So the White House wants to focus its attention almost
9:59
Speaker 1: exclusively on the pandemic and the economy, but they're clearly
10:04
Speaker 1: doing a lot of things on immigration. They're dealing with
10:06
Speaker 1: the situation at the border. They're dealing with increasing the
10:10
Speaker 1: cap on refugees. And like we said, just so people
10:12
Speaker 1: know the polling on this, like Morning Consult, did a
10:15
Speaker 1: poll in January about all of 28 of Biden's executive
10:20
Speaker 1: actions that he had announced then that he was going
10:21
Speaker 1: to do. The only executive action that was underwater was
10:27
Speaker 1: the action to allow 125,000 refugees. And only 39 percent
10:29
Speaker 1: of voters supported that. 48 percent of voters opposed it.
10:35
Speaker 1: Five of the seven lowest polling executive actions were all
10:38
Speaker 1: around immigration. Now, to the Biden administration's credit, they are
10:42
Speaker 1: moving forward on all those immigration actions anyway. But it
10:46
Speaker 1: does seem like what they believe is, OK, we're going
10:48
Speaker 1: to talk most about the stuff that's popular. like the
10:51
Speaker 1: American rescue plan, like what they're doing on the pandemic.
10:54
Speaker 1: And we'll do the other stuff and not talk about
10:56
Speaker 1: it as much like what's going on on the border.
10:59
Speaker 1: What I think though, is like in a vacuum, that
11:02
Speaker 1: might be fine, but Republicans love it are clearly going
11:05
Speaker 1: to make immigration an issue nonstop between now and the
11:09
Speaker 1: midterms and beyond. So it seems like you have to
11:11
Speaker 1: be proactive about this kind of stuff and tell a
11:14
Speaker 1: story that's going to, you know, sort of win people
11:18
Speaker 1: to your side on this.
11:20
Speaker 6: Yeah.
11:20
Speaker 5: It's, I will say, like, I think that's, of course, right.
11:24
Speaker 5: But at the same time, like the Biden administration, like
11:26
Speaker 5: even on their immigration policy, like they haven't been skittish,
11:28
Speaker 5: like they've been willing to kind of embrace the kind
11:31
Speaker 5: of progressive proposals without worrying so much about bad faith
11:34
Speaker 5: attacks from the right.
11:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, they get an A on embracing the proposals
11:40
Speaker 1: and the policy. And look, it could be a couple
11:42
Speaker 1: different things. They are dealing with a pandemic right now.
11:44
Speaker 1: We're still dealing with an economy that's hurting. President wants
11:47
Speaker 1: to go in every single day and talk about the
11:49
Speaker 1: top issues on people's mind, which are the pandemic and
11:52
Speaker 1: the economy. But I do worry that meanwhile, in Foxland
11:57
Speaker 1: on the right among Republicans, they're going to have a
11:59
Speaker 1: drumbeat every single day on the border, on refugees, on immigration,
12:03
Speaker 1: on all of their xenophobic bullshit. to try to force
12:06
Speaker 1: that into the national spotlight and make the next election
12:09
Speaker 1: about that more than anything. And I wonder, Tommy, at
12:11
Speaker 1: some point, the Biden administration has to hit back on
12:14
Speaker 1: that and make the case that there is nothing for
12:16
Speaker 1: us to be afraid of in taking refugees. There's nothing
12:19
Speaker 1: for us to be afraid of in taking care of
12:22
Speaker 1: unaccompanied migrant children who come to our country.
12:25
Speaker 6: What do you think?
12:26
Speaker 7: Yeah.
12:27
Speaker 2: Look, I just don't get it.
12:28
Speaker 3: He did the public messaging part in February where he
12:30
Speaker 3: said the next year's fiscal cap would be $ 125, 000. And
12:34
Speaker 3: then they walked it back for some reason. So on
12:37
Speaker 3: the refugee piece of this, it was confused. And I
12:40
Speaker 3: think the rapid change sort of reflects the fact that
12:44
Speaker 3: internally they realized they'd screwed this up and they wanted
12:46
Speaker 3: just to get it right.
12:48
Speaker 7: Yeah.
12:48
Speaker 1: And hopefully now that they've clarified it, that we're on
12:50
Speaker 1: the path to fixing this issue. But Everyone should keep
12:52
Speaker 1: an eye out. Everyone should keep holding them accountable, making
12:55
Speaker 1: sure they actually do this, make sure the refugee program
12:57
Speaker 1: starts up again. And they hit those numbers that they promised.
13:01
Speaker 1: One thing we know for sure is that regardless of
13:03
Speaker 1: whether Biden and the Democrats focus on immigration, Republicans certainly will.
13:07
Speaker 1: On Friday, Punchbowl News published a seven-page proposal for something
13:11
Speaker 1: called an America First Caucus, which states that, quote, America
13:15
Speaker 1: is a nation with a border and a culture strengthened
13:17
Speaker 1: by common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions. It goes
13:22
Speaker 1: on to say that immigration is putting the, quote, unique
13:25
Speaker 1: identity of America at risk and calls for limiting legal immigration, quote,
13:30
Speaker 1: to those who have demonstrated respect for this nation's culture
13:33
Speaker 1: and rule of law. This Anglo-Saxon caucus was reportedly the
13:36
Speaker 1: brainchild of Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene. And both Representatives Matt
13:41
Speaker 1: Gaetz and Louie Gohmert tweeted that they were proud to
13:43
Speaker 1: join Greene in the caucus. But after immediate blowback from
13:46
Speaker 1: both Democrats and even Republicans like Liz Cheney and even
13:49
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, Green's office tried to distance the congresswoman from
13:53
Speaker 1: the document and finally told reporters she is, quote, not
13:56
Speaker 1: launching anything.
13:58
Speaker 2: Love it.
13:59
Speaker 1: How big of a deal is it that a few
14:00
Speaker 1: of the craziest right wing nutjobs in Congress tried to
14:03
Speaker 1: launch an Anglo-Saxon caucus in the House? Should we feel
14:06
Speaker 1: better that it failed after criticism from senior Republicans or what?
14:10
Speaker 5: No, no, I don't feel better. I have never felt better.
14:13
Speaker 5: I wonder what it's like to feel better.
14:15
Speaker 2: But the so. What happened?
14:18
Speaker 5: What happened was they launched something that they thought would
14:21
Speaker 5: be non-controversial in their own party. They thought this was
14:25
Speaker 5: just going to be like embracing Trump, which has become
14:27
Speaker 5: non-controversial inside of the party. And this document, even if
14:32
Speaker 5: you remove the words Anglo-Saxon, is in the spirit of
14:36
Speaker 5: what Trump has said and done. And it is, you know,
14:39
Speaker 5: fascism with American characteristics. And I think the reason you saw...
14:44
Speaker 5: Marjorie Taylor Greene, but also Gates, Gohmert, people like Paul Gosar,
14:49
Speaker 5: act like this was something great that they were just
14:51
Speaker 5: going to do and not worry about is they would
14:54
Speaker 5: have been fine in the way in which our politics
14:57
Speaker 5: currently works if the words Anglo-Saxon hadn't been in there.
15:00
Speaker 5: If they had just made a few more pieces of
15:03
Speaker 5: the racism subtext as a rather than text, it would
15:05
Speaker 5: have become kind of acceptable and Kevin McCarthy would not
15:09
Speaker 5: have felt the need to do something that obviously take
15:12
Speaker 5: a great deal of courage, which is issue a powerful subtweet.
15:16
Speaker 5: So like my lesson from this is the only mistake
15:20
Speaker 5: they made politically in this climate is they included the
15:22
Speaker 5: words Anglo-Saxon and were a little too explicit about the
15:25
Speaker 5: fact that they just don't want brown and black people
15:27
Speaker 5: to be Americans.
15:29
Speaker 1: I will say that there has been a big change.
15:31
Speaker 1: And in fairness, right, it started with the Trump administration.
15:34
Speaker 1: But there has been a change in how certain Republicans
15:38
Speaker 1: talk about immigration since Trump became president, whereas they've all
15:43
Speaker 1: felt comfortable being against illegal immigration and railing against illegal immigration.
15:48
Speaker 1: But during the Trump administration, partly because of Stephen Miller,
15:51
Speaker 1: partly because Trump himself, you started seeing Republicans talk about
15:54
Speaker 1: curbing legal immigration. And in this document, aside from the
15:57
Speaker 1: Anglo-Saxon thing, They want to limit legal immigration to those
16:02
Speaker 1: who have demonstrated respect for this nation's culture and rule
16:04
Speaker 1: of law. That is an entirely different level of xenophobia
16:10
Speaker 1: than we have heard from mainstream Republicans in the past.
16:15
Speaker 1: at least most of the party before Trump. And I
16:18
Speaker 1: think that is a change.
16:19
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know.
16:20
Speaker 3: Look, I think the Republican Party is constantly ebbing and
16:23
Speaker 3: flowing in terms of how openly nativist and racist and
16:26
Speaker 3: anti-Semitic it wants to be.
16:28
Speaker 2: Not nationally necessarily, but.
16:30
Speaker 3: David Duke got 38% of the vote in a 1991
16:34
Speaker 3: Louisiana governor's race.
16:35
Speaker 2: That's horrifying, right?
16:37
Speaker 3: Pat Buchanan ran for president on a hard line anti-immigrant platform.
16:41
Speaker 3: I think he called for a full pause in immigration
16:44
Speaker 3: for five years or something.
16:46
Speaker 1: Five years.
16:46
Speaker 2: That outrageous and out there, right?
16:48
Speaker 3: So yes, these are three particularly enormous dum-dums, right? Like
16:54
Speaker 3: Matt Gates, or Gates, whatever the fuck you say his name,
16:57
Speaker 3: jumped on this because I'm sure he was excited to
16:59
Speaker 3: talk about literally anything else but his like potential DOJ investigations, right?
17:04
Speaker 2: But I do think we got to keep an eye
17:05
Speaker 2: on this stuff. And I'm glad that.
17:07
Speaker 3: McCarthy and Cheney and some others came out against it.
17:09
Speaker 3: But I think we should view this Anglo-Saxon caucus, even
17:13
Speaker 3: if it's dead on arrival, as a data point about
17:15
Speaker 3: the broader trajectory of the Republican Party and how, you know,
17:19
Speaker 3: emboldened these forces feel. And I think the answer is
17:22
Speaker 3: in the post-Trump era is getting.
17:24
Speaker 2: Worse, not better. Much worse.
17:26
Speaker 1: No, much worse. I mean, Tommy, a few episodes ago,
17:28
Speaker 1: your under the radar story was about Tucker Carlson promoting
17:32
Speaker 1: the great replacement theory, which suggests that Democrats are trying
17:35
Speaker 1: to take power by replacing white voters with nonwhite immigrants.
17:39
Speaker 1: A few days after Carlson did that, the Republican National
17:41
Speaker 1: Committee sent out a fundraising email with the subject line, quote,
17:45
Speaker 1: Do you watch Tucker Carlson? He's absolutely right. So there's
17:50
Speaker 1: this debate about, you know, whether it's better to ignore
17:53
Speaker 1: crazies like Green and Tucker or whether we should draw
17:56
Speaker 1: attention to the fact that elected Republicans and conservative media
17:58
Speaker 1: figures are using language that's no different than white nationalist groups. Lovett,
18:05
Speaker 1: what do you think?
18:07
Speaker 5: I think it's really hard. I think it's a really
18:09
Speaker 5: hard challenge. It is noticeable when there is this kind
18:14
Speaker 5: of news cycle around Tucker Carlson. He embraces white nationalism
18:20
Speaker 5: on his show. It then becomes a firestorm on Twitter
18:24
Speaker 5: and in the mainstream press. He then enjoys it and
18:26
Speaker 5: responds to it and it builds and he gains more
18:29
Speaker 5: attention and sucks more and more of the political oxygen
18:31
Speaker 5: out of the room. That said, we have to talk
18:34
Speaker 5: about it. We have to talk about the fact that
18:36
Speaker 5: you know, unalloyed white nationalism has a very big foothold
18:40
Speaker 5: in the Republican Party. It is the mainstream now of
18:42
Speaker 5: the Republican Party. You know, I know this is something
18:45
Speaker 5: Tommy's been struggling with, too. Like, how do you address
18:48
Speaker 5: the threat that these kinds of figures pose without elevating them,
18:54
Speaker 5: not just in the consciousness of people who want to
18:56
Speaker 5: stop them, but in the consciousness of people who love it?
18:59
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's a really big problem.
19:00
Speaker 5: This is how we ended up with Trump This is
19:02
Speaker 5: how we could end up with Tucker Carlson on a
19:04
Speaker 5: debate stage with a bunch of Republicans who can't figure
19:06
Speaker 5: out how to stop him in a couple of years.
19:08
Speaker 3: Like, I think social media is what makes this complicated, right?
19:11
Speaker 3: Because if this was the 1930s and you caught some
19:13
Speaker 3: American politician reading aloud from Mein Kampf, right, you wouldn't
19:17
Speaker 3: go photocopy those pages and then hand them out without context, right?
19:20
Speaker 2: That's insane.
19:20
Speaker 3: But that's what happens on Twitter and Facebook every day.
19:23
Speaker 3: Lots of well-meaning people clip and share long clips from
19:26
Speaker 3: Tucker Carlson about the great replacement theory. because they're outraged
19:30
Speaker 3: and they assume everyone else is outraged too. But you
19:32
Speaker 3: inadvertently end up spreading his message, juicing the Twitter algorithm
19:37
Speaker 3: in a way that his views get seen.
19:40
Speaker 2: Or he gets more followers.
19:41
Speaker 3: And then Tucker doubles down and he says to his listeners,
19:44
Speaker 3: talking about this is how we own the libs, right?
19:46
Speaker 3: And it becomes folded into that part of the message.
19:48
Speaker 3: And so what happens is over time, once fringe political
19:52
Speaker 3: speech becomes normalized and racist, anti-Semitic fringe ideas become more
19:59
Speaker 3: commonplace and they get more traction. So like that's the
20:02
Speaker 3: ebb and flow. And the alt-right people, the far right,
20:05
Speaker 3: they know this, right? Like a lot of them, again,
20:06
Speaker 3: were just toiling away on fringe websites that no one
20:09
Speaker 3: ever saw until they figured out that if you said
20:12
Speaker 3: something offensive on Twitter, tons of well-meaning liberals would share
20:17
Speaker 3: what you did because they were mad about it. And
20:19
Speaker 3: it's a very deliberate strategy. And we need to be
20:21
Speaker 3: smarter about it and counter that by calling them out
20:24
Speaker 3: for what they're saying and why they're saying it. We
20:26
Speaker 3: have to talk about their motives, all the things they
20:28
Speaker 3: want to distract us from and not talk about, and
20:30
Speaker 3: not just assume that when you share Tucker talking about
20:33
Speaker 3: the great replacement theory, that everyone is going to find
20:36
Speaker 3: that morally repugnant. Because nationalism and nativism are a part
20:41
Speaker 3: of the fabric of America, unfortunately. And we have to
20:43
Speaker 3: tell a better story, not just share his story, because
20:46
Speaker 3: that can lure people in. It's very enticing to a
20:49
Speaker 3: lot of angry people.
20:52
Speaker 1: I think that's a very good point. Rule and way
20:54
Speaker 1: to handle it is just don't share without context and explanation.
20:58
Speaker 1: And like, it just, you cannot assume that everyone thinks
21:01
Speaker 1: like you do and are automatic. Someone is automatically going
21:05
Speaker 1: to find what Tucker says repulsive and horrible. Like you
21:07
Speaker 1: have to. teach people how it's being heard by especially
21:11
Speaker 1: white nationalist groups, right? Nick, Nick Fuentes, who is a
21:15
Speaker 1: white nationalist Holocaust denier. Um, he responded to Carlson segment
21:20
Speaker 1: that Monday night about the replacement theory by tweeting this week,
21:22
Speaker 1: Tucker red pilled 4 million people and there is nothing
21:25
Speaker 1: liberals can do about it. So I do think that
21:28
Speaker 1: like you can't ignore it. You can't just let Tucker
21:31
Speaker 1: be saying all this stuff. And I thought, but you
21:33
Speaker 1: have to, you, you have to tell people why it's
21:36
Speaker 1: so dangerous. Um, but look, there's, I mean, We can
21:39
Speaker 1: ignore it all we want, like in the Republican primary
21:42
Speaker 1: in 2024 and in Republican primaries in 2022, like whatever
21:46
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy wants to do, whatever Liz Cheney wants to do,
21:49
Speaker 1: whatever well-meaning Republican wants to do. There are going to
21:52
Speaker 1: be lanes for pure white nationalist garbage talking points from candidates.
21:59
Speaker 1: And those candidates could do very well in the 2022 primaries.
22:02
Speaker 1: They could do very well in the 2024 presidential primary.
22:05
Speaker 1: Like this is here to stay in the Republican Party.
22:07
Speaker 1: This is the same Republican Party that was, you know,
22:09
Speaker 1: the establishment was confidently telling people that Donald Trump could
22:12
Speaker 1: never win the nomination. Right. Well, then he did. And
22:14
Speaker 1: then he won the presidency. So from now on, when
22:16
Speaker 1: people say shit like this, like we got to stay
22:19
Speaker 1: on top of it.
22:20
Speaker 5: Yeah, the other thing I would just add is when
22:25
Speaker 5: Tucker says Democrats don't care about you, they don't want
22:29
Speaker 5: to help you, they've given up on policies that are
22:32
Speaker 5: popular or that make life better. So they're trying to
22:34
Speaker 5: import non-citizens to make your vote count for less. Obviously,
22:39
Speaker 5: there's a big component of that, that we have to
22:42
Speaker 5: draw attention to the parts that are purely racist. But
22:45
Speaker 5: there is another piece of this, which is we have
22:46
Speaker 5: to prove him wrong on the merits of what Democrats do.
22:49
Speaker 5: We have to pass legislation that people see in their lives.
22:52
Speaker 5: And we have to demonstrate that this is false across
22:54
Speaker 5: the board, not just in terms of the racist element,
22:57
Speaker 5: but in terms of politics not working for people. We
22:59
Speaker 5: have to prove that our democracy can work. We have
23:01
Speaker 5: to prove that we can, in the next 500 and
23:03
Speaker 5: some odd days, show demonstrable change that kind of can
23:08
Speaker 5: attack at the margins. I think there's a lot of
23:10
Speaker 5: people who are unreachable, but at the margins that they
23:13
Speaker 5: can see that democratic policymaking has been affected.
23:26
Speaker 1: All right, Congress is in session this week, and the
23:28
Speaker 1: gap between the productivity in the House and the Senate
23:31
Speaker 1: is becoming even wider. On Thursday, the House is set
23:35
Speaker 1: to vote on making Washington, D.C. the 51st state, which
23:39
Speaker 1: will be one of over 40 bills passed by House
23:41
Speaker 1: Democrats in just this session of Congress. Others include the
23:45
Speaker 1: Equality Act, which would prohibit discrimination based on sex, sexual orientation,
23:49
Speaker 1: and gender identity. The American Dream and Promise Act, which
23:53
Speaker 1: would protect up to 4.4 million dreamers. The George Floyd
23:57
Speaker 1: Justice in Policing Act, which would increase accountability for police officers.
24:01
Speaker 1: Legislation to strengthen background checks for purchasing firearms. And of course,
24:05
Speaker 1: the For the People Act, which would save democracy as
24:08
Speaker 1: we know it. But over in the Senate, none of
24:11
Speaker 1: this legislation will pass so long as the filibuster remains
24:14
Speaker 1: in place. Joining us today to talk about our plan
24:17
Speaker 1: to fix all of this, Crooked Media's political director, Shaniqua McClendon. Hey, Shaniqua.
24:22
Speaker 5: Welcome.
24:23
Speaker 6: Hi.
24:23
Speaker 1: Hi.
24:24
Speaker 6: This is my first time here. I'm like really excited.
24:27
Speaker 1: We're excited to have you. Would you tell us all
24:31
Speaker 1: about Vote Save America's call tool and our brand new
24:34
Speaker 1: whip count?
24:35
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. So if you head over to votesaveamerica.com slash
24:40
Speaker 6: for the people, all one word, we have a list
24:43
Speaker 6: of all 50 Senate Democrats. And right next to that,
24:48
Speaker 6: we have whatever the latest thing they've said about whether
24:50
Speaker 6: or not they support eliminating the filibuster. to pass HR1.
24:54
Speaker 6: And as you scroll down, you'll see some people have
24:56
Speaker 6: gold stars next to their names, because they've been very
24:59
Speaker 6: clear about where they stand. But most of them have
25:02
Speaker 6: a phone next to their name, because most of them
25:04
Speaker 6: have been what I think is intentionally vague about where
25:07
Speaker 6: they stand. So if there's a phone next to their name,
25:10
Speaker 6: we would love for you to call them and figure out,
25:12
Speaker 6: you know, where they stand on eliminating the filibuster to
25:15
Speaker 6: pass H.R. 1. And, you know, these calls are really
25:18
Speaker 6: important because they'll put pressure on Democratic senators to hopefully
25:21
Speaker 6: do the right thing and eliminate the filibuster to pass H.R. 1.
25:25
Speaker 6: But at least it will push them to get clear
25:28
Speaker 6: on where they stand. So if they actually don't support it,
25:31
Speaker 6: say that and stop just kind of running around and
25:33
Speaker 6: leaving people confused, especially since this is something that has
25:37
Speaker 6: been discussed since the Democratic primary started in 2019. So
25:40
Speaker 6: it's not like they didn't know the question was coming
25:43
Speaker 6: or they've been confused about it.
25:44
Speaker 5: Shaniqua, do you ever feel bad about spreading misinformation about
25:48
Speaker 5: the fact that you've been on Positive America before?
25:50
Speaker 6: I was really trying to remember when I saw Jordan's note.
25:55
Speaker 5: Huge impression it left on you.
25:59
Speaker 6: I remember I was on a live stream.
26:01
Speaker 2: Wait, what?
26:01
Speaker 6: Does that count as the same? Uh-huh. Okay, wait, then
26:05
Speaker 6: what are we talking about?
26:06
Speaker 1: Look, I don't know. Jordan Waller put it in the chat.
26:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, hard fact check.
26:11
Speaker 1: She was the one who corrected. Lovett didn't even really
26:13
Speaker 1: have the correction handy. It was all Jordan. Oh, now
26:16
Speaker 1: she said she'll find it after she just rolled that
26:19
Speaker 1: grenade right into the Zoom interview.
26:22
Speaker 6: I feel like you should know it off the top
26:24
Speaker 6: of your head without looking if you're just going to throw.
26:27
Speaker 1: That out there. Well, you know what, Shaniqua? You're here now,
26:31
Speaker 1: which is the most important thing.
26:32
Speaker 2: That's true.
26:32
Speaker 6: That was me saying it nicely. I wasn't trying to
26:35
Speaker 6: be mean about it. I'm happy to be here.
26:38
Speaker 1: I won't pin you down to the exact number, but
26:40
Speaker 1: it does feel like there's not enough gold stars right
26:42
Speaker 1: now next to all these Senate Democrats.
26:45
Speaker 6: I counted them. There's 16.
26:47
Speaker 1: Of course I should have known. You counted them. So
26:48
Speaker 1: there's only 16 gold stars. It's time for people to
26:52
Speaker 1: get off the fence. It's time for people to get
26:53
Speaker 1: off the fence at this point. I mean, you can
26:56
Speaker 1: understand people being intentionally vague for a while because there
27:01
Speaker 1: hasn't been a bill to actually take the stand on.
27:04
Speaker 1: But now that we have 40 bills, over 40 bills
27:07
Speaker 1: piled up that have passed the House, it's getting time.
27:11
Speaker 1: You spent some time working on the Hill, Shaniqua. What
27:13
Speaker 1: was your experience with constituent calls? How effective are they
27:16
Speaker 1: in persuading members of Congress?
27:18
Speaker 6: They're really effective. I will say constituent calls, that's normally
27:22
Speaker 6: the first thing you do on the Hill in an
27:24
Speaker 6: entry-level job. And it's like, terrifying. People are not always nice,
27:29
Speaker 6: but the way it works in most offices is staff
27:31
Speaker 6: assistants and interns, they answer the phones and you literally
27:35
Speaker 6: tally up, I mean, on computer software, but you tally
27:37
Speaker 6: up how constituents are feeling about different pieces of legislation
27:42
Speaker 6: or just issues. And this includes voicemails too. So if
27:44
Speaker 6: you don't get through to a person and you leave
27:47
Speaker 6: a voicemail, just be sure to leave your zip code
27:50
Speaker 6: so that they know that you're from their state or district,
27:53
Speaker 6: because we did not you know, we didn't log in
27:56
Speaker 6: anything that didn't have identification for where you lived. But
28:00
Speaker 6: if an issue is not already in this software that
28:02
Speaker 6: we use to log all of those issues, initially we'll
28:06
Speaker 6: just say, enter it in kind of generically and say,
28:09
Speaker 6: we'll pass that along to the Senator. once you get
28:11
Speaker 6: a certain number of calls, if it's not already kind
28:13
Speaker 6: of a big issue in the news, we'll add it
28:15
Speaker 6: into the system. And so then it's, you know, kind
28:18
Speaker 6: of a bigger deal if it's in the system, but
28:20
Speaker 6: continuing to say, we'll get this to the Senator, we'll
28:22
Speaker 6: let them know how you feel. And that really happens.
28:25
Speaker 6: You know, every day we sent a report to senior
28:27
Speaker 6: staff and a Senator that had all the issues people
28:30
Speaker 6: called in about listed out and how many people called
28:32
Speaker 6: in favor of it and how many people called in
28:34
Speaker 6: opposition to it. But then when you get more calls,
28:38
Speaker 6: you know, you stop saying, okay, we'll just let the
28:40
Speaker 6: Senator know how you feel. And senior staff decides, okay,
28:43
Speaker 6: we need to actually come up with talking points for this.
28:45
Speaker 6: So we're going to have to actually figure out how
28:47
Speaker 6: we feel about it. And one thing I think is
28:49
Speaker 6: worth pointing out is that if we felt strongly about something,
28:52
Speaker 6: there was never any ambiguity. We had talking points ready.
28:56
Speaker 6: If two people called in, they got them. If, you know,
28:58
Speaker 6: 500 people called in, they got them. It was on
29:01
Speaker 6: the issues that we were a little squishy on that
29:03
Speaker 6: it was, we would just say, we're going to pass
29:04
Speaker 6: this back to the Senator. So it's important to call
29:07
Speaker 6: because you keep, as you keep increasing the pressure, the
29:11
Speaker 6: Senator's office and the Senator want to give you a
29:14
Speaker 6: response because some of them want to do the right thing.
29:16
Speaker 6: I'd like to say most of them, but most of all,
29:19
Speaker 6: everyone is focused on getting reelected. And if they feel
29:22
Speaker 6: like their constituents are really riled up about something, they
29:26
Speaker 6: want to figure out where to be and to be
29:28
Speaker 6: on the right side of it. And just adding onto that, oftentimes,
29:33
Speaker 6: when I was there, people who sat at home watching
29:35
Speaker 6: Fox News all day is who called into our office.
29:38
Speaker 6: And so they were overrepresented in the responses we were
29:41
Speaker 6: getting from constituents. So it's important that we make sure
29:43
Speaker 6: that we're heard so that those folks don't get overrepresented
29:47
Speaker 6: and then sway elected officials towards something that just a loud,
29:50
Speaker 6: vocal minority of people want.
29:52
Speaker 1: That's a really good point. Tommy, it's only been a
29:55
Speaker 1: few months since Biden took office. Why do you think
29:57
Speaker 1: it's so important to really ramp up the pressure on
29:59
Speaker 1: the Senate and launch this whip count right now? Obviously,
30:03
Speaker 1: there's a lot of bills that came over from the House,
30:04
Speaker 1: but what's the urgency right now?
30:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, these things build over time, right?
30:07
Speaker 3: I mean, to add to what Shanika was just saying,
30:10
Speaker 3: Barack Obama's chief of staff, Pete Rouse, who was later
30:13
Speaker 3: his White House chief of staff for a time, who
30:14
Speaker 3: was called the 101st senator, used to personally edit every
30:18
Speaker 3: piece of mail that went to constituents. So like senior
30:20
Speaker 3: people really hear about these tallies that are coming in.
30:23
Speaker 2: They pay attention. But legislative sessions, they're slow.
30:27
Speaker 3: They're cluttered. The midterm elections come fast. Senators and members
30:32
Speaker 3: of Congress are the only adults who inexplicably have recess frequently.
30:36
Speaker 3: So you don't have a lot of calendar to work with.
30:39
Speaker 3: You're fighting for time. You're fighting for mindshare. And then
30:42
Speaker 3: the reforms we're looking for when it comes to the filibuster,
30:46
Speaker 3: that's the first step to unlocking all the other stuff
30:48
Speaker 3: we want to then do.
30:50
Speaker 2: So this is very urgent.
30:51
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.
30:54
Speaker 1: And we have had some experience with this kind of
30:57
Speaker 1: thing before. For those of you who've been listening to
30:59
Speaker 1: Pod Save America for a long time now, back in, what, 2017,
31:03
Speaker 1: I believe it was, maybe 2018, we did a whip count,
31:07
Speaker 1: love it, called Waffle House. Remember when we were, there
31:12
Speaker 1: was a budget there going through Congress and basically Democrats said,
31:16
Speaker 1: we're not going to fully fund the government until we
31:21
Speaker 1: get a vote on protecting the dreamers And we started
31:24
Speaker 1: drumming up a little bit of a whip count. And
31:26
Speaker 1: a lot of Senate Democrats sort of, they jumped off
31:29
Speaker 1: the fence there.
31:30
Speaker 5: Yeah, it worked. It was an acute success. It may
31:35
Speaker 5: have played some small role in shutting down the government
31:37
Speaker 5: for about 48 hours, which was over a weekend. It
31:41
Speaker 5: was over a weekend. So the hours were less significant.
31:45
Speaker 5: But nonetheless, it was effective because politicians are skittish and-
31:53
Speaker 5: you've got to make sure they're afraid of the right things.
31:55
Speaker 5: And they can be afraid of being called partisan scorched
32:00
Speaker 5: earth warriors who don't care about bringing people together, or
32:03
Speaker 5: they can be afraid of the base for not delivering
32:09
Speaker 5: on their promises. And we don't just want to do
32:13
Speaker 5: this because it's not just because we believe it's the
32:15
Speaker 5: right thing to do for the country to pass some
32:16
Speaker 5: of these bills. There's 500 and some odd days to
32:21
Speaker 5: not just pass progressive legislation that shows people that we've
32:27
Speaker 5: earned their vote, but also to pass H.R. 1 to
32:30
Speaker 5: make sure we protect those votes if we do earn them.
32:32
Speaker 5: So time is ticking on that. And there's one other just, look,
32:37
Speaker 5: I'm in charge of corrections today. Shame on you, Tommy,
32:40
Speaker 5: for calling it a recess. It's a homework period. It's
32:43
Speaker 5: a homework period.
32:45
Speaker 2: Homework period?
32:45
Speaker 5: No way.
32:46
Speaker 2: We called it recess, congressional recess.
32:48
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, but they don't like that anymore because
32:50
Speaker 5: it sounds like recess, and so they refer to it
32:52
Speaker 5: as district.
32:52
Speaker 2: So they went with homework? That's better. It's a district
32:54
Speaker 2: working period.
32:55
Speaker 5: They go home, they do work at home.
32:56
Speaker 2: District working period, yeah. District working period.
32:58
Speaker 1: Homework, it's not called homework.
33:00
Speaker 6: Oh, right.
33:02
Speaker 2: Sorry, portrait mode, you flubbed your homework.
33:06
Speaker 5: Bunch of pedants. Can't even hear me. My Zoom's breaking up.
33:09
Speaker 5: I don't even know what's getting through. Yeah, are you
33:10
Speaker 5: being here with us? I'm breaking in, but leave this in. Hey,
33:12
Speaker 5: get some fucking internet. How long have you been doing this?
33:15
Speaker 5: Can we get some rural broadband for Lovett wherever he
33:18
Speaker 5: is in Biden's Build Back Better plan?
33:20
Speaker 2: He's either in super HD portrait mode or you can't
33:23
Speaker 2: see him.
33:24
Speaker 1: Don't cut this. We're leaving this. This is our lives.
33:28
Speaker 2: Am I back? You're back.
33:30
Speaker 1: You're back now for now. We'll see.
33:32
Speaker 5: Maybe these Democrats could pass a broadband bill.
33:35
Speaker 1: I already made that joke while you were cut out.
33:38
Speaker 6: All right.
33:40
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema's
33:43
Speaker 1: support of the filibuster. Shaniqua, what other Senate Democrats are
33:46
Speaker 1: you keeping an eye on here that have been particularly
33:50
Speaker 1: waffly on their support of the filibuster?
33:54
Speaker 6: So three states that really stood out to me because
33:56
Speaker 6: they are all three represented by two Democrats, but the
33:59
Speaker 6: other Democrat in the state has come out in support
34:01
Speaker 6: of eliminating the filibuster for H.R.1. And so Patrick Leahy
34:05
Speaker 6: in Vermont, Bernie Sanders is his counterpart. He has been
34:09
Speaker 6: really vocal about this. but has said, you know, the
34:12
Speaker 6: Senate is where legislation comes to cool off. It's the
34:16
Speaker 6: saucer or something like that. I know. And, you know,
34:21
Speaker 6: I just think it's interesting because he has, you know,
34:24
Speaker 6: Bernie Sanders there who has been, who's vocal about everything
34:27
Speaker 6: and really pushing a progressive agenda. And this is part
34:30
Speaker 6: of it and has just kind of landed on that.
34:33
Speaker 6: I think out of the three, I'm going to mention
34:34
Speaker 6: he's the one that really needs to be pushed so
34:36
Speaker 6: people can understand where he stands because he's The Senate
34:39
Speaker 6: is where things come to cool off, doesn't answer the question, like,
34:43
Speaker 6: do you want to pass H.R. 1 or not? And
34:46
Speaker 6: then was really interested, and I wouldn't call him, you know,
34:50
Speaker 6: John Ossoff from Georgia. Senator Warnock has said, you know,
34:53
Speaker 6: he does not think the filibuster is worth saving if
34:56
Speaker 6: we can't pass H.R. 1. Ossoff has said he's open
34:59
Speaker 6: to eliminating the filibuster. But I just think that that
35:04
Speaker 6: is a pretty lukewarm stance for someone who is the
35:07
Speaker 6: 50th senator as far as I'm concerned. Like he was
35:10
Speaker 6: the last person to be elected. They got elected together,
35:13
Speaker 6: Warnock and Ossoff, but looking at the vote count and
35:16
Speaker 6: vote share.
35:17
Speaker 1: You're tough. Open to eliminating feels pretty good to me.
35:21
Speaker 6: Well, he should just say it. He should just say it.
35:25
Speaker 2: No, but he should, sorry.
35:26
Speaker 5: He should just say it because it's like, you know,
35:28
Speaker 5: this isn't just about getting people to be for this.
35:30
Speaker 5: It's like the difference between people who are for this
35:32
Speaker 5: because they have to be and people who are for
35:34
Speaker 5: this because they recognize that it's like, the right thing
35:36
Speaker 5: to do and something to fight for.
35:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
35:39
Speaker 6: And will Senator Warnock be back in 2023 if he
35:42
Speaker 6: doesn't do this? Would Ossoff have been elected in 2020
35:46
Speaker 6: if Georgia had the bills that they're working on in
35:49
Speaker 6: place now? So if they keep going and these are
35:52
Speaker 6: on the books, you know, he wouldn't have been elected.
35:54
Speaker 6: So I think he kind of owes it to the
35:56
Speaker 6: folks of Georgia and everyone who has helped out to
35:58
Speaker 6: get him elected to do the right thing. And then finally,
36:01
Speaker 6: our Senator, Senator Feinstein... Um, she, uh, I'd say in
36:06
Speaker 6: between Leahy and Ossoff and said that she doesn't want
36:08
Speaker 6: to end tradition, but the opposition party shouldn't be able
36:11
Speaker 6: to prevent votes on important bills. I, uh, I just
36:17
Speaker 6: don't get the obsession with tradition. You know, that goes
36:20
Speaker 6: back to Joe Manchin for me. I just don't know
36:22
Speaker 6: what he's holding onto, but especially for Feinstein who represents California. Um,
36:28
Speaker 6: I just, that just feels like a not good excuse
36:31
Speaker 6: to me. Um, so yeah, those are the three that
36:34
Speaker 6: I'm really going to be watching to see what they
36:36
Speaker 6: do because, um, I mean, I would put cinema there,
36:38
Speaker 6: but she's, you know, doing her thing to annoy people. Um,
36:43
Speaker 6: but yeah, I think it's really interesting that you have
36:45
Speaker 6: three Democrats who their counterparts in the state are other
36:49
Speaker 6: Democrats who have been pretty upfront about how they feel
36:51
Speaker 6: about this. And then you have these three who are,
36:54
Speaker 6: who are not. And if you live in their States,
36:56
Speaker 6: you should call them and get them to be more
36:58
Speaker 6: clear on it.
36:58
Speaker 2: Good advice.
37:00
Speaker 1: The two dudes that I'm watching are, uh, The senators
37:03
Speaker 1: from Delaware, you got Chris Coons and Tom Carper. They've
37:07
Speaker 1: both been very lukewarm on this. And they are from
37:09
Speaker 1: a blue state, Joe Biden's home state. And I think
37:13
Speaker 1: you should call them and tell them if they don't
37:14
Speaker 1: get off the fence, Dan Pfeiffer is going to primary
37:17
Speaker 1: one of them.
37:18
Speaker 5: He needs to put together the exploratory committee. He needs
37:20
Speaker 5: to put together the committee just to show that there's some,
37:23
Speaker 5: you know, there's some bite behind the bark. You know,
37:25
Speaker 5: we got to get Dan in this contest. The other
37:27
Speaker 5: thing is, he just rattled off a list. of senators.
37:31
Speaker 5: And it's even when you, you know, obviously Ossoff is
37:33
Speaker 5: an exception, but one other reason we have to move
37:37
Speaker 5: fast is not to put too fine a point on it.
37:40
Speaker 5: Like we're one hardened artery away from losing the Senate
37:43
Speaker 5: at any time.
37:45
Speaker 6: That's not wrong.
37:47
Speaker 5: Just something to keep in mind.
37:48
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and also, yeah, you talk about Leahy and
37:52
Speaker 1: Feinstein too. There's like opposition that is due to sort
37:56
Speaker 1: of political concern. Like how's this going to play in
37:59
Speaker 1: my next race? I know like Maggie Hassan in New
38:01
Speaker 1: Hampshire has a tough race coming up. She's been sort
38:03
Speaker 1: of on the fence, but then there's just, I've been
38:05
Speaker 1: in the Senate for a thousand years and this is
38:07
Speaker 1: all I know. And that's like Feinstein and Leahy.
38:09
Speaker 3: Also, if I hear that one, no one uses a
38:13
Speaker 3: saucer anymore. We're all using those stupid fucking paper things
38:16
Speaker 3: around our Starbucks to like, if the legislation does any
38:19
Speaker 3: more cooling in the Senate, it will just be ice.
38:22
Speaker 3: They don't do anything. They don't pass anything. There's not
38:24
Speaker 3: some issue of like overheated House bills coming over to
38:27
Speaker 3: the floor in the Senate and rapidly getting passed. The
38:29
Speaker 3: Senate doesn't do anything. They raise money and then they leave.
38:34
Speaker 5: It's like too much legislating these days. We got to
38:38
Speaker 5: slow this bad boy down.
38:40
Speaker 2: Two reconciliation bills every four years.
38:42
Speaker 6: Great.
38:43
Speaker 1: So just in case you are not sure what to
38:46
Speaker 1: do when you call, what to say, what argument to make,
38:49
Speaker 1: last week we asked you all to send us voice
38:50
Speaker 1: notes explaining what you would say, the argument you would
38:53
Speaker 1: make to Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, or any other Senate
38:56
Speaker 1: Democrat who's still on the fence about abolishing the filibuster.
38:59
Speaker 1: You really delivered. Here are a couple of our favorites.
39:02
Speaker 1: Let's play the clips.
39:03
Speaker 7: This is Robin, a Wisconsin voter who resides in Greece,
39:07
Speaker 7: and I've written a serenade for your senator. which I
39:11
Speaker 7: encourage anyone to use, it goes, Oh, I wish you'd
39:16
Speaker 7: be a filibuster buster. That is what I'd truly like
39:22
Speaker 7: you to be. A filibuster buster could save democracy. And
39:28
Speaker 7: every would be in love with thee.
39:33
Speaker 4: Hi, Joe.
39:35
Speaker 2: I'm one of your constituents.
39:37
Speaker 4: I appreciate the critical votes you've cast to do things
39:40
Speaker 4: like protect the Affordable Care Act. But there is a
39:43
Speaker 4: version of U.S. history in which you could cast many
39:45
Speaker 4: more critical votes. Reform the filibuster, Joe. And if you do,
39:49
Speaker 4: I will personally organize a group of West Virginian progressives
39:53
Speaker 4: to carry you and Susan Collins to the top of
39:55
Speaker 4: Cooper's Rock so that you can shout both sides until
39:59
Speaker 4: it rings off the Appalachian Hills.
40:05
Speaker 3: I like the appeal to ego at the end there
40:07
Speaker 3: that was good i.
40:08
Speaker 1: Really like that one the uh the the song i
40:11
Speaker 1: don't know that's like that is quite a song uh
40:14
Speaker 1: we have what we have one more that came in
40:16
Speaker 1: through email um and not through voice note that uh
40:19
Speaker 1: that john lovett's gonna read for.
40:21
Speaker 5: Us all right here it is from a listener named
40:24
Speaker 5: alec to mr mansion oh god come on alec That's
40:31
Speaker 5: sort of there's a space between, you know, inside of
40:33
Speaker 5: his name to make a little pun. There's no argument
40:35
Speaker 5: that hasn't been made to you yet. Ultimately, you just
40:37
Speaker 5: mistake Republicans for people acting in good faith. And that's
40:40
Speaker 5: very silly of you. But anyway, below is something you
40:42
Speaker 5: probably haven't considered about the filibuster. Did you know Philly
40:45
Speaker 5: comes from a Greek word philia meaning love? Did you
40:48
Speaker 5: know bust means to bankrupt? The filibuster is literally bankrupting love,
40:53
Speaker 5: loving policy and loving progress.
40:57
Speaker 2: I feel like. I feel like we're.
40:59
Speaker 5: All Sam going, throw the filibuster in the fucking volcano already.
41:03
Speaker 5: And you're like, nah, bro, you'll have to bite my
41:06
Speaker 5: finger off. That was so much cringe in so few words. Alec,
41:12
Speaker 5: thank you. Thank you for sending that deeply uncomfortable missive.
41:16
Speaker 5: Who's Sam? It's Samwise Gamgee, I believe. Gamgee's from Lord
41:24
Speaker 5: of the Rings. That's a Lord of the Rings reference.
41:27
Speaker 6: Okay.
41:27
Speaker 3: I think we should take two lessons away from these. One,
41:30
Speaker 3: don't be mean. It's probably better not to be mean
41:33
Speaker 3: to them. Two, keep it simple and make sort of
41:37
Speaker 3: basic direct arguments. That would be my advice based off
41:40
Speaker 3: our experience just now.
41:42
Speaker 5: And I'm also just like, I'm very interested in Greece
41:47
Speaker 5: by way of Wisconsin. I'm also interested in that path.
41:49
Speaker 6: Yeah.
41:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:52
Speaker 1: No, don't be mean, but dripping condescension and sarcasm, like
41:56
Speaker 1: screaming both sides from the top of a mountain.
41:58
Speaker 2: I laughed. That works.
42:00
Speaker 1: That works. That's better than just straight mean.
42:03
Speaker 6: All right.
42:04
Speaker 1: Do not forget to call your senators so we can
42:06
Speaker 1: keep updating our whip count. Go to votesaveamerica.com slash for
42:09
Speaker 1: the people. You can find our call tool there. We'll
42:11
Speaker 1: have scripts for you and you can check out the
42:13
Speaker 1: latest count. Shaniqua, thanks for joining us.
42:16
Speaker 6: Thank you for having me for what I still stand
42:19
Speaker 6: behind is my first time.
42:20
Speaker 1: I like that.
42:21
Speaker 2: I like the confidence.
42:22
Speaker 5: Jordan went silent on this. And just one other quick note.
42:25
Speaker 5: The best way to reach Diane Feinstein is by telegram.
42:28
Speaker 1: All right, everyone. We'll talk to you Thursday. Take care.
42:36
Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
42:39
Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Flavia Casas.
42:43
Speaker 1: Our associate producers are Jordan Waller, Jazzy Marine, and Olivia Martinez.
42:48
Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
42:51
Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somenator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
42:55
Speaker 1: Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for production support. And to
42:58
Speaker 1: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed, and
43:02
Speaker 1: Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos
43:05
Speaker 1: every week.