Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory about The Happiness Patrol (2/3)

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Talks to Frazer Gregory about The Happiness Patrol (2/3) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:28
Now, baby, I hear the Blues are calling.
0:30
Toss salad and Sophie Aldred. Now I hear the Sylvester's a bit
0:37
confused now maybe, but I got you pegged.
0:41
But I don't know what to do with those Toss salads and Sophie
0:44
Aldred. She's calling again.
0:51
Hello and welcome back to a Hamster with a Blood Pen Knife,
0:55
the Doctor Who Commentaries podcast, where, as always, I'm
0:58
listening. This isn't Frasier, it is
1:02
Fraser. And I am joined by the wonderful
1:04
Joe Ford to discuss my favorite Doctor Who story, which is.
1:10
The Happiness Patrol, you know, I've got a safe razor in terms
1:15
of you just singing that lovely jazz music at the start there
1:18
and admitting that the Happiness Patrol is your favorite Doctor
1:21
Who story. I don't know if I've ever wanted
1:24
to fuck you more, you know, if I'm honest.
1:28
Well, I'm married. I'm sorry.
1:31
Oh, you broke my heart, so I do. I was just waiting for you to
1:34
say stop it. You don't.
1:38
Listen, it's just stop it. Stop it.
1:42
Stop it, stop it. Never.
1:43
You never stop it. What's the point?
1:44
You know how sort of everybody is eventually cancelled.
1:47
I'll be cancelled as being a sex pist coming after you.
1:51
I mean what your 700 episodes in now and it doesn't happen yet?
1:54
So I know. I know.
1:55
Well, you live in hope, don't you?
1:57
You know. What would be cancelled for
1:59
being a sex fest? I just of course, yes.
2:04
The Happiness Travel Your favorite Doctor Who story.
2:07
Indeed. Well you have gone some way to
2:11
explaining that in our hour long episode one, but I feel as if we
2:16
barely scratched the surface. There's two more episodes at
2:19
school, so we can delve into those layers, scratch the
2:23
surface we need. What we need to do is peel off
2:25
the layers, the layers of what makes this such a fantastic
2:29
story. We've touched on the set design,
2:31
which is one of those layers. We've had a little sing song
2:34
just there, the music and always.
2:36
You're a big fan of the music, aren't you?
2:39
I think Dominic Glenn's 3 scores for.
2:44
I mean, I've got a lot of time for Mark Hayes, his music, yeah,
2:47
but I think Glynn might edge him out for me now.
2:51
I think he adds huge spectacle to Dragon Fire, where the
2:56
production can't quite realise the the ambition of the script.
2:59
The music goes a long way, but the planet the the Breezer
3:04
Centre takes off and it's a spaceship coming away from
3:07
covered in ice. The music swells and swells.
3:11
It's gorgeous, and Survival is just one of the best scores in
3:14
the entire classic. Rather so you're not the only
3:20
one that can sing. However, this is his most
3:24
idiosyncratic score, where he gets to play about with being
3:29
sort of childish, sinister, genuine suspense and doing crazy
3:36
things like a mock American muzak and stuff like that.
3:42
It it's just all over the place. But as I said about Sheila
3:46
Hancock, very precise, I think. Yeah, it's you said.
3:51
There's the Muzak to set the scene.
3:53
You've got the Blues throughout. You've got, but you've got the
3:55
noir, sort of like tinkles and piano tinkles.
3:59
He's actually playing that harmonica, right?
4:01
That's not sympathized harmonica.
4:03
Well, well, I don't know how true this is, but I, you know,
4:07
read, I heard somewhere that I'll Sigma, the actor that
4:11
played L Sigma was just making, you know, harmonica, playing
4:17
movements with his hand. And then Dominic Glynn filled it
4:21
in, but didn't just you, but actually looked at the movements
4:25
of his hand and said, well, that'll be an A, that'll be AG,
4:27
that'll be an E. And you know, sort of backfilled
4:33
it to say, well, actually based on his hand movements, this is
4:36
what it will sound like. How true that is, I don't know,
4:38
but that's not something that I've heard.
4:40
Oh, the the description of the harmonica music as a pleasant
4:45
melancholy. It's wonderful because I have
4:48
periods, you know, where I'm a little bit depressed and
4:51
actually listening to sad music, sad songs really cheers me up or
4:57
relaxes me, you know, It's like, it's like a, an oral
5:01
encapsulation of how I'm feeling in the ears.
5:06
It's why the The Smiths are so popular with Moody teenagers.
5:09
Contrast that with the jingles. Yeah.
5:13
You know, and you've got something really interesting
5:16
going on musically here, but it's also just very, you know,
5:18
that whole when he's deactivating the bomb and it's
5:20
like, do do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
5:24
I love that stuff as well. You know, Dow, Dow, Dow, Dow,
5:30
Dow, Dow, Dow, Dow. I think he's great.
5:35
I, I, it's a shame. I don't think he went on and did
5:38
any more musical scores for Telly after this.
5:42
He's he certainly wrote music. Yeah, yeah, but he's done M he's
5:47
done a piece for Toby, hasn't he?
5:49
For Toby, he looks podcast one of the like is it the
5:54
interfaceable magic he does the. And he did something for Flight
5:58
for Entirety's ultimate faux episode when they recorded the
6:02
original scripts, the original aerosol script with Nathan
6:06
Bottomley as the master, which is what I've always wanted.
6:12
What I would like to talk to you about before we go into episode
6:15
2 is the candy man, how Graham Curry envisaged him and then
6:22
what ended up on the screen. So he he envisaged him as sort
6:27
of someone in a dirty lab coat, you know, and he says in the
6:31
special features he thought of him as like he does the
6:35
executions for Helen A but it's just a a side hustle so we can
6:40
earn the money to make his fabulous sweets, you know, the
6:44
best sweets in the world, so delicious that they actually
6:47
kill people, which is just such a insidious thing and so
6:53
appealing to kids. Had that hit the screen, I think
6:58
it would be almost too dark, but you would have had some creepy
7:05
actor in a dirty lab coat and I think, I don't think that would
7:12
have reached kids in the same way that the Candy man does.
7:17
Some sort of creepy act. I don't necessarily.
7:20
I mean, when you say that, the name that's jumps out, as is
7:25
Richard Wilson. Oh, OK.
7:27
No, I take it back. Wonderful.
7:30
So you I can imagine sort of Richard Wilson is that sort of
7:34
like, you know, because which is a good few years before 1 foot
7:40
in the grave is, you know, sort of that put upon yes, OK, I've
7:46
got someone murder someone now, but I'm you know, you know, I'm
7:49
just at the boiling point of this and I can see that.
7:56
Would it be as successful? I don't think it what I don't
7:59
think it would be too. It wouldn't be as memorable now
8:01
would it? No it.
8:02
Wouldn't be memorable. I don't think it would.
8:05
It would add anything, to be honest.
8:08
I'm sure one of the questions coming up is what does the candy
8:10
man add anything to this story? And visually, of course, he does
8:17
in terms of, you know what if, because how does he write them?
8:21
In the book You write some as like.
8:24
Well, he's but he's like effectively Quilliam from
8:26
Vengeance and Virals. But no one remembers Quilliam,
8:29
do they? Apart from being a big camp.
8:32
And no, exactly. No, it might work in as much as
8:38
you know. Do you want this to be a bit
8:42
more realistic and a bit less theatrical?
8:46
You know, do you want not want to be bullied in your
8:48
schoolyard, you children of Williams?
8:52
It would work in that respect. But would it work in terms of
8:55
adding something to this story? I don't think it would.
8:57
I was not embarrassed by the Graham Williams era.
9:00
I mean, it's baffling, isn't it? Because they were young.
9:03
You don't get embarrassed when you're young, That's true.
9:05
Yeah, actually, yeah, you're right.
9:06
It's that sort of period where you're getting critical, isn't
9:09
it? It's simple about things.
9:10
Yeah, when you sort of like, I mean, you know, the children of
9:14
Williams were sort of like 4-5 six year old when.
9:16
The children of Williams. Also in the 7th, it could
9:19
because because this is the interesting thing and This is
9:22
why there is probably a thesis to be written out there about
9:26
you know. These do not give Elizabeth
9:28
Sander for ideas. Go and study, you know, Doctor
9:33
Who fans, you know, when were you born?
9:35
When did you start watching Doctor Who What do you think of
9:38
various stories? Because there's a big gap in
9:41
between the children, Williams and the 79 gang, because GNT
9:46
switches to a Monday night, Monday and Tuesday night.
9:49
So when you are four and five years old, you will watch Doctor
9:52
Who on Saturday after the football because you were awake
9:56
and you were up at that time. You then start going to bed at
9:58
seven, 8:00 when you you know, that's when my five year old
10:02
goes to bed. He goes to bed.
10:03
It's between 7:00 and you know, half seven on a week night.
10:08
You know, you've got school the next day.
10:09
So you're not staying up till 8:00 to watch Doctor Who.
10:12
You know those kids are going to bed.
10:14
So I think there's a big gap in the Davison years where people
10:18
aren't, we haven't got the the fan factory is it where we're
10:22
not making new fans out of five and six year olds because they
10:26
are just not able to watch at that time.
10:29
It's not until you know when you know for the 79 gag.
10:34
It's not until you are old enough to stay awake and watch
10:37
the 7:30. When you're 8:00 and 9:00 and
10:40
you're old enough to stay awake until eight O clock on 8:30 to
10:45
watch these stories going out, that's when you get hooked.
10:49
If you know the Davison you ever had stuck to the Saturday, you
10:54
probably would have had a lot more phone 5 year olds.
10:56
You would have another subset in between children of Williams and
10:59
and the 79 going. You realise that thesis is in
11:02
progress right now. It's called a hamster of a lump
11:05
pen knife. And the more people are talking
11:07
about these stories of different ages, yeah, more of an argument
11:11
we're building. Yeah, we'll get the.
11:13
Categories of fans in certain years.
11:16
You know, the more Simon Hart gets on to his library people in
11:20
these two groups and, you know, says tell me about your story,
11:23
your fan story. And, you know, we've, we've
11:26
started to see a few of the black and white bands, as I'm
11:28
now calling them, which is the likes of Gary Russell, who grew
11:32
up with, you know, William Horton and Patrick Troughton.
11:35
And you see. Even more interesting, though,
11:38
even more interesting are the Luke Malloy's of this world that
11:41
came in via the new series. And I love hearing their
11:45
readings on the classic series because he loves Trial of a Time
11:48
Lord, He loves Steven Moffitt, so he likes art based Doctor
11:51
Who. So when he watched Trial of a
11:52
Time Lord, which everyone hated at the time when it went out,
11:56
he's like, no, this is great. It's full of exciting ideas like
11:59
what is wrong with you people? But the the interesting thing
12:02
with with like Gary Russell is you see Gary Russell have the
12:06
exact same response to the Williams era is the Williams
12:12
have. That's when he's a teenager,
12:14
that's what he's cynical when embarrassed by everything.
12:17
Yeah, because. Toby Hado actually he, he hit
12:21
this era and had huge issues, didn't he, with Remembrance of
12:24
the Daleks, he said in his commentary.
12:27
Yeah. You know, yeah, My God.
12:31
It's a fascinating. Once.
12:34
Once you get your head, once you start, you know, getting into
12:36
your head and start thinking about it, you know, thinking,
12:38
you know, when you when did you start watching?
12:39
What do you think of all the the subsequent sort of eras, you
12:43
know, when you start putting people into these these
12:45
categories, you know? Are you suggesting then that
12:48
people have no critical faculties in so far as
12:52
discussing these things now? Because you're either going to
12:55
land on, depending on when you was born, you're going to land
13:00
on the this. I've still got all my borrowed
13:02
embarrassment of Happiness Patrol, or I've still got all of
13:06
my absolute love for Happiness Patrol from when I was a stroke
13:10
16. It's going to have an influence
13:12
because you can't help it. It's not like, you know, you
13:15
say, well, I, you know, I'm not saying I love this because I was
13:20
born when I was, you know, it, it was on at a certain time in
13:24
my life and I don't like this, you know, that's the reaction
13:27
you have at that time. You then go away and then you
13:29
build your critical faculties later on.
13:33
So when, when you're 8 or 19 year old, you are not sitting
13:35
objectively watching anything. You're not sitting and going.
13:38
Well, I think this episode of Bluey stands out particularly
13:41
well because of the interplay between Bandit and Bingo in this
13:44
one. Because, you know, and teachers.
13:46
I don't know what you're talking about.
13:47
It teaches us all a very good lesson about parenting.
13:50
You don't do that. You just.
13:51
You just. Did about the Sarah Jane
13:53
Adventures though, you know. Yeah, but you weren't 8 then.
13:56
Well, I still am technically, but yeah, no, I see what you're
13:59
saying. But you know what I mean, You,
14:01
you watch things as a kid. You know, the stuff that we were
14:04
watching as a you. Know it's glorious.
14:06
Daleks invasion of 2150 AD is still the most exciting thing
14:10
ever because I watched it when I was 6.
14:13
Yeah, you know, and exactly, you know, things like The Next
14:17
Generation. So when we were watching The
14:18
Next Generation and Wesley Crusher was on, we had a
14:21
reaction to Wesley Crusher. You know which.
14:23
I certainly did, yes. Yeah, I imagine you did, Yes.
14:26
And you know, and things like that, you have, you know, you
14:29
don't really develop your critical, critical faculties
14:32
until you're a lot older. And that's what you see with
14:35
this. They see people like Simon and
14:37
Pete Lamba coming back and going, well, I hated it at the
14:39
time with a passion, but looking at it through, you know, adult
14:44
eyes, looking through it now is seeing what he was trying to do
14:47
and seeing some of the subtext and the thoughts about it then.
14:51
There's still a resistance, though.
14:53
I don't care. There's there's there was still
14:56
a like a, an apologetic tone to how he was talking about it.
15:00
Like a yeah, you know what? I know you love this.
15:03
But yeah, absolutely. But it's it's the opposite of
15:06
that sort of nostalgia armour that I've given Sophie Aldridge
15:10
that we're talking about in episode one, You know, where,
15:13
you know, you can, you can say you can be as objective and you
15:16
can point as many flaws as her performance as you want.
15:19
But there's, you know, there's a baseline that you're not going
15:22
to penetrate because of what that meant to me growing up.
15:26
I can talk as many nice things about this one.
15:28
And, you know, people like Daniel Knight, people like Simon
15:31
Hart and Pete Lamb. But there is going to be a
15:33
baseline where I reach where they say, well, yes, you know,
15:37
all I agree with everything that you're seeing.
15:39
I can't get past what happened. Shiny Studio.
15:44
Floors what happened to me, you know when this went out live and
15:48
I had to go to school the next day or whatever you know, and
15:50
there's going to be you know, things like that, you know
15:54
throughout. I've only got one floor in your
15:57
argument. I absolutely loved ACE when I
16:03
was nine years old and I drew pictures of the dragon fire
16:07
cover over and over again, and I thought her baseball bat and
16:13
ghetto blaster and bombs were the coolest thing I'd ever seen
16:16
in my life, but I fell out of love with her.
16:22
You, you had that life changing event, didn't you?
16:24
What's that? About when you got when you got
16:27
kicked in the head by a horse. Oh, I thought you meant when I
16:30
was 13 and I had my foot. No, OK.
16:33
I just think I fancied her at one point, you know, Well,
16:36
everyone. Did I know this is?
16:38
I was obsessed with that cover. And you know what, we'll add
16:42
another layer to that, that that, you know, nostalgia armor.
16:47
But I think a lot of people would have been in the same boat
16:50
of like, having a bit of a sexual awakening with Sophie
16:53
Allred and thinking, actually, oh, Ding Dong.
16:56
Oh, please don't say that to me, though.
16:58
Good grief. I'd rather have a sexual
17:00
awakening with Sylvester McCoy. Well, what are your options?
17:05
What you happen to be dressed like right now.
17:09
But circling this background to sort of the borrowed
17:12
embarrassment, stroke love of the candy man.
17:16
You know, I feel as if less the story, more the candy Man
17:21
absolutely exemplifies what we're talking about here.
17:24
And in in a lot of ways, less than the story, The Candy Man is
17:33
something that we've all just got on over and learnt to love.
17:36
It's fucking awesome. It the design is detailed and
17:40
beautiful. The performance is layered and
17:43
interesting. It's visually stimulating.
17:47
Like it pops on the screen. He's funny, so he makes you
17:51
laugh. So I think that's that's the one
17:54
element of this story. Sort of apart from Daniel
17:57
Knight, obviously. Yeah, you know, everyone's sort
18:01
of forgiven. Again, I think, you know, people
18:05
will forgive as much as they can, but the candy man was the
18:09
big you know, if you if we had you know, we talked about that
18:14
that big lift plummet from remembrance part for happiness,
18:18
part one, where in comes the candy man and all of a sudden
18:20
Doctor Who was the target for ridicule again, because it looks
18:23
just like Bertie Bassett with wires and take, you know, put do
18:28
you know, give us me me sort of victim elderly candy man.
18:31
I don't believe it. Yeah, that sort of, you know as
18:35
as we. See that now?
18:37
You know, originally intended, you don't have that, you know,
18:40
embarrassment, you know, so I think more than anything, that's
18:46
that's what people react to when we're talking about this, the
18:51
story and embarrassment it is. It is the candy man.
18:55
But you know, the the candy man is is the sort of thing that
18:59
does stand this out because you know, Doc who was littered with
19:03
shit monsters, You know, I did a whole, you know, advent calendar
19:07
of them a year or two back of counting down the days till
19:09
Christmas through shit monsters. You know, look at every story,
19:13
every story that you want to see as a classic in the classic run.
19:17
It's got a shit monster in it. Caves of Andrews and he's got
19:20
its magma beast talents and Wingchang has got its giant rat.
19:23
Genesis of the Daleks has got. The Dominators has got Oh no,
19:27
I'll stop there. The don't you know the you know
19:33
the Genesis has got the the mark two travel machine, the clams
19:36
and every every stories got. But this doesn't have a shit
19:42
monster it. Doesn't it has a brilliant
19:44
monster? But I've got a theory as to why
19:47
we've gotten over the Candy Man, and I think it's the new series
19:51
which has offered us up far more ridiculous things than Bertie
19:54
Bassett. We had Cassandra, a bit of skin,
19:58
played by Zoe Wannabaker. We have the Slovene, these
20:00
farting aliens. We had the adipose, you know,
20:04
walking bits of fat, like all these things are.
20:08
And you go on and on and on. You know, we had a enormous dog.
20:11
In flux, you know, a talking dog.
20:15
So suddenly the candy man doesn't look quite so ridiculous
20:18
anymore. And actually, you know, they're
20:21
enough distance has passed that this isn't the reason why a
20:23
Doctor Who came off the screen and you can just look at it and
20:26
go, gosh, that is just gorgeous. Gorgeously realised.
20:31
Absolutely. Should we watch them?
20:36
I just like talking to you. Yeah.
20:38
OK, let's go. I think it's my cert to count as
20:41
in there, isn't it? When he's up next, isn't he's up
20:45
on this one? Yes Fraser, you'll see.
20:48
I make sweets. So.
20:49
Oh no, I'm going to do the line when it's on in 54321.
20:56
Off we go. Boom.
20:58
Boom, Starfield explodes straight in there.
21:04
It's a proper scream, isn't it? Yep.
21:07
Oh, CGICGI. God, no, I'm sorry, but you
21:11
could tell me. This is day.
21:12
I know I'll say that about Babylon Five, that the CGI looks
21:15
dated. I don't know dolls, but I don't
21:19
care. This is still great CGI.
21:20
This is 1987 CGI though, isn't it?
21:22
How do? You remember when they did Tom
21:25
and Irani graphics at the same time and they took out that
21:28
strange thing flying through space, attacking the TARDIS made
21:32
out of coloured cubes. No.
21:35
Oh boy, then you'll suggest you go to the Blu-ray of Season 24.
21:38
What's the special features? I shall watch the special
21:40
features then, because I know, because I've watched the special
21:42
edition where they put, you know, rainbow bombs back in and,
21:46
and all that jazz. I said Gregory, you call
21:48
yourself a Doctor Who fan. No, of course not.
21:52
Welcome to the Candy Kitchen, gentlemen.
21:55
It's the worst kept secret in Doctor Hill that I'm a terrible
21:58
fan. There should be no when you have
22:00
a podcast. I've said this to many a man.
22:02
I do like my volunteers to die with smiles on their faces.
22:07
Oh, I'm coming across quite sinister in this episode.
22:12
Oh no, it's the pipe people there's.
22:15
Something we haven't talked about the pipe people.
22:17
Well, go on over to you to give a positive reading on the pipe
22:23
people. Well, they did make the shit
22:24
monster Gavin calendar. I should probably I'll tell you,
22:29
but we'll part that a part three in the break.
22:31
I'll I'll take out what I wrote about the pipe people when I did
22:35
them in me. I'll just say this, I'm glad
22:37
it's dubbed because in the studio footage you can just hear
22:40
the kids going squeaky voices. Oh, I'll tell you what we
22:46
haven't talked about. Rachel Bell is Priscilla Pi,
22:50
think he's wonderful in this. And I'm like Georgina Hale,
22:54
who's somewhere in the stratosphere.
22:56
Rachel Bell is given a cut above performance, but a lot lower
23:01
down. You know, she's quite sinister,
23:03
I think. Yeah, she is, but we're back
23:05
with a candy ban. Yes.
23:08
So I mean, let's talk about the design then, because they did
23:12
get they did get a letter, didn't the from.
23:15
Yes, right bassets don't do it again.
23:17
Don't do that. You know we are going to.
23:20
What sort of a story could you write where that could come back
23:22
again? I think that's the beauty.
23:25
It's it's it's you know, when I said, you know, the quarks are
23:27
better than candy ban because quarks can come back.
23:30
I think there is something, you know, really wonderful about the
23:33
fact that, you know, the candy man hasn't come back because if
23:37
this was Moffat, you know, he would, you know, Moffat, never
23:40
let an idea go to waste. Study that you can reuse again
23:43
and again. This twirly hypno eyes make me
23:46
laugh every time I look at it. That's that is literally the the
23:52
greatest fear of the children of the Williams era.
23:54
Those twirly eyes, isn't it? But it just makes me how?
23:59
Hypnotized by you, but. What I love is he's totally
24:01
sadistic as well, you know? Yeah, because that was because
24:07
that's, that was the other change, wasn't it wasn't just,
24:09
you know, making them, you know, quite obviously made out of
24:12
sweets. It was to position him more as
24:16
a, you know, sadistic person that killed for pleasure rather
24:19
than or convenience. I like it when he goes.
24:23
Just because Helena prefers my ugly side doesn't mean I don't
24:28
care. Every lines of bugger.
24:33
He's just a camp old queen, isn't he?
24:35
Yeah, he is. He is.
24:37
There's been me when I'm 60. Yeah, McCoy, this running rings
24:44
around him, isn't he? Oh, it's quite sad, though,
24:47
because they cut out the bit where Earl Sigma is given the
24:51
sweets and then he's literally sitting there like he's on
24:54
drugs. He's experienced such pleasure.
24:57
They totally cut that bit out. Yeah, like I said, we'll we'll
25:03
look for I think it's quite coming up quite soon.
25:06
I think it looks going to be quite soon.
25:07
The 25 box I think either going to be next on the one.
25:11
They should do a super car. There's some really wonderful
25:14
scenes that need to be back in there.
25:16
Yeah. And I don't think it would
25:19
disturb the flow. I actually think it would be
25:21
better paced. I think, I think when you've got
25:24
25, when you have to have 25 minutes when it's going out in a
25:27
slot and you see and right, it has to be 25 minutes.
25:30
But then obviously you have to make some cuts.
25:32
When you've got you know, the, the DVD, you've got the Blu-ray,
25:36
you've got the option of putting it back in and saying, well,
25:38
actually he has your choice and you could watch your 25 minute
25:42
version or you can watch the 27 or 32 minute version, whatever.
25:46
Absolutely go for it. You know you'd be, you'd be a
25:50
fool not to, to be honest and. What what I love about the
25:55
Cartmel era now, now I've sort of gotten over myself a bit, is
25:59
I love the fact that he does lean into urban horror a lot,
26:05
but he's got huge space for quirky and, you know, madly
26:11
eccentric characters like this and stories like Paradise Towers
26:15
and Delta and the Bannermen and, you know, stuff like that.
26:19
Have you read? His It's a heady mix.
26:21
Yeah, have you read his memoir Script Doctor?
26:24
Well, I have a bit of issues with it because I think he's a
26:27
very arrogant man, so he does irritate me a bit.
26:30
Even Mark tells me these stories about how he goes around
26:33
conventions and says, what's your name Mark?
26:36
And he writes down the name Mark in the first, oh, I've written
26:38
your name in it now you got to buy it.
26:40
You know, he's he's a bit in love with himself.
26:44
Like there are flaws in this era as well which I think doesn't
26:47
entirely see. I think that's that's a bit of a
26:51
sight of desperation. Mark said he was doing it all
26:56
day. He sold loads, hundreds of
26:58
things. Exactly you will that's that's
27:00
that's good tactic. What were you going to say about
27:04
Script Doctor though? I mean, it's, it is, it's AI
27:06
would recommend it to everyone because it's like a fascinating
27:10
insight as to what was going on behind the scenes at that time.
27:13
And you know, it does give you an idea of his, his thought
27:16
process, which was I think we need to start with the writer
27:19
and say, you know, I want a good writer.
27:21
I want someone that's got good ideas and can and write well and
27:25
then we'll we'll see what story they can come up with and then
27:28
we'll work on that story. So do.
27:30
You know what Nathan said to me this morning?
27:32
He said I was talking to him about this and he said, I think
27:34
Andrew Cartmel was the best showrunner of the the classic
27:41
series by far, the vision that he had.
27:44
And he was also a terrible script editor.
27:47
Well, this is this is the conversation we've had with with
27:49
them, Simon Hart, isn't it? Where we acknowledge that Andrew
27:54
Cartmel was a fantastic script editor, but quite terrible when
27:59
it came to edit in scripts because.
28:04
They do suffer because he can't stick to them.
28:06
Yeah. I mean, what we're talking
28:08
about, you know, things being cut out because we can.
28:12
I mean, there's there's two reasons for that.
28:13
One is because obviously, you know, we don't know what was cut
28:17
out in say 70s, you know, what was cut from, you know, like Sea
28:20
Devils or Ambassadors of Death or whatever that just got threw
28:23
it on the floor and get swept away.
28:25
And obviously, you know, at this time, we've got Mr. Levine
28:29
hanging around, you know, getting these, you know,
28:34
services rendered where, you know, if he's to be believed,
28:39
he's the one that's going around saying I'll have all the off
28:41
cuts so I can keep them in in my vault with other things.
28:48
So we've got it. So we've got it to say, well,
28:50
this is, you know, and this is what was missing from these and
28:55
this is what we cut and all the rest of it.
28:58
And so we know we know what was missing from this period.
29:02
There might be just as much you know in in 10 sticks this time,
29:05
but you get the feeling that. There was you're in Trial of a
29:07
Time Lord. They did massive extended
29:09
editions of Trial of a Time Lord.
29:11
It's just less noticeable though because I think they just cut
29:13
out the flab in that, whereas it isn't flab in these stories.
29:17
Every word counts. Yeah, yeah.
29:19
So obviously the the job you scripted that should really be
29:23
saying, well, actually at the script stage that is going to
29:25
overrun. That is going to be too long.
29:28
So what we're going to cut out the script stage so that we
29:30
aren't just cutting, you know, bits that are actually got, you
29:34
know, what can we do to this? Well, we'll you know, maybe he's
29:38
not have the we could cut the the we'll cut the the go go Kart
29:43
at the script stage would be ideal.
29:46
You say, well, actually, how does the doctor get away then?
29:48
Well, Eden or he trips up Bissell opinion runs out the
29:54
door and you know, so you do it at the script stage rather than
29:58
having a film and saying, well, now I've got a 27 minute episode
30:00
that I have to cut 2 minutes off and what which you know, making
30:04
that decision, you do it at the script stage.
30:06
So that and that's where probably where Cartmel falls
30:09
down more than anything, but you know in terms.
30:12
Of the tone, you know, the, the confidence, the the flow of
30:17
ideas and creativity, the focus on character.
30:22
All of that is just, I mean, it's a completely different show
30:25
from where we've been mid 80s. 100 percent, 100% because you
30:29
know what what Eric Seward is doing is, is probably, you know,
30:33
has got a vision of the show, which is the odds of GNT.
30:37
You read the script that you think you get the impression
30:39
that GNT wasn't quite as involved at this stage, but.
30:44
They had a they had a huge brouhaha in Delta and the
30:47
bannermen, they had a massive row that he talks about where he
30:50
left the location and went back to London and said I'm not going
30:53
to be here, just here. You're whipping boy and
30:55
embarrassed by you all the time. I've had enough.
30:58
And JMT asked him, He begged him please come back, I need you.
31:02
They sat down, they hashed it out, and then he said, right, do
31:06
your stuff. You know, get, I mean, he
31:11
doesn't really go into that much detail about, you know, what was
31:15
said between him and GNT, But you get the impression that, you
31:18
know, GNT is a lot happier to leave Cartmel to do what he
31:21
wants to do than you ever was with Saywood.
31:23
He's a lot more hands on. So you know whether that's
31:25
because. He's a better Ryo.
31:29
Whether it's, you know, he's, he's kind of coming to the end
31:32
now. He's he's had, you know, the
31:33
hiatus has kind of broken him a little bit.
31:34
And he's like, well, I'm having to stay here because if I don't,
31:37
the show gets cancelled. I'm having to stay and.
31:40
J&T is also, I mean, the production Diaries are a
31:44
revelation because he is barely around during 22 and 23.
31:50
No 23, he's back from the beginning of the McCoy era.
31:54
He's there throughout the production and he knows he's got
31:58
to be there and he can't be all swan into all these conventions
32:01
and other countries and enjoying the adoration of the fans.
32:05
So I just think it's a it's a good synthesis of the old God
32:09
and the the fresh new ideas. But this is it.
32:12
It's all you know, this is what we'll get with Carmel is new
32:15
writers. You know, we'll have Pip and
32:16
Jane in the you know, Pip and Jane and Cartmel do not.
32:20
Get. Oh, no, no, it's Jane and
32:22
Carmel. That's the documentary of the
32:25
mockumentary. I want to say the Battle of Jane
32:27
Baker and Andrew Carmel. Yeah.
32:30
So they but he just brings in new writers after that.
32:34
And you know, a few of the writers come back from 24 to 25
32:36
and 26 and 25 to 26. But for the most part, it's you
32:40
compare that with them sort of like the the let's and Dicks
32:43
year where you have one or two new writers throughout five
32:46
years. You know, it's just bring them
32:48
back, bring them back to them what they're doing in the safe
32:50
hands. And, you know, I think that's
32:52
what what Carmel adds in his era is just new, new ideas.
32:57
And there is, there is a lot of Subs.
33:02
No, not what's the word I'm looking for so.
33:06
Substance. No subversive subversive
33:10
thinking going on there because because Cartmel is a bit a bit
33:13
of a left wing bit of a anarchist.
33:15
And he says I wanted to bring down the Tory government.
33:19
Absolutely. So he's bringing that sort of
33:21
ideology to thinking in with his right, as in, you know, bringing
33:25
that in a little St. whereas Eric just wants to kill people.
33:28
He's risky, that's what he is, yeah, But he's risky in terms of
33:32
tone and wackiness as well, as well as his politics.
33:36
But you know what? If Cartmel was the showrunner,
33:40
the one thing you would lack in the Sylvester McCoy era, and
33:44
it's one of the best things about it.
33:45
And it's J&T through and through.
33:47
It's the fantastic celebrity stunt casting.
33:52
You know, you would. You wouldn't have Sheila
33:54
Hancock, you wouldn't have Jean Marsh, you wouldn't have Richard
33:58
Bryce Cartmel would. He wants to show to be a bit
34:01
more down to earth, doesn't he? So I think all the casting would
34:04
be a little more naturalistic and less theatrical.
34:08
But there's Oh my God, here's the snipers.
34:11
Yes, the snipers. So yes, we do is a little bit of
34:15
talking about the guns. So we do get a little bit of a,
34:18
it's not like a total just lesson snipers, I'll go and talk
34:21
to them sort of thing. So there is a little bit of a
34:26
point then. How do those pipes reminder of
34:28
perivale? It's nothing like that in
34:30
survival. How does?
34:32
Presumably hangs around the pipes a lot.
34:34
You should hang around in the sewers.
34:36
OK, fair enough. Oh, we haven't even talked about
34:39
Fifi. Fifi, Oh, he's.
34:41
Wonderful, isn't he? Fifi's brilliant.
34:43
I mean, it's an animatronic creation.
34:47
We've got a man up is awesome. No, it's animatronics as well.
34:52
Wouldn't. It No, it's not.
34:53
There's a shot, there's a production shot of him, a man
34:57
underneath the cage with his hand.
34:59
Through the cage. It's so funny.
35:02
But what happens is Sheila Hancock just transforms that
35:06
puppy in how she interacts with it.
35:08
Talk about, you know, giving it some.
35:12
And look at this. It was my first interaction
35:15
between the doctor and Helena. And it's it, it was crackled,
35:20
isn't it? It's.
35:21
Well, I feel like saying to to Psy right now.
35:24
Dude, I leave you too long, my darling.
35:27
Don't worry, I'm back. Now You're.
35:32
Oh, God, McCoy and Hancock. Are you kidding me?
35:36
Now there's a question for you. Oh, I think McCoy raises his
35:41
game to the actor he's playing it against.
35:44
And if he's not playing against high calibre actor, sometimes it
35:50
can be a little substandard when he's up against someone like Ian
35:54
Hogg in Ghost Light or Dinsdale Laden in Cursor.
35:59
Fenrick and Hancock in this Boy, oh boy, he comes up to their
36:03
level. He's like, I know I'm a comedy
36:05
actor, I don't care, I'm coming, I'm going to literally take your
36:09
head on. He's brilliant.
36:11
I think it's it also, so a lot depends on what you're asking
36:15
them to do. You know, if you're asking them
36:18
to, you know, be sort of like the sad clown, you can really do
36:23
that. Well, if you're asking them to,
36:25
you know, play the still menace, you can really do that.
36:28
If you're asking them to be, you know, thoughtful and
36:30
introspective, you can do that. It's when you're kind of asking
36:33
them to be a bit more, you know, outrageous, you know, have we
36:41
missed, have we missed these singing scene yet?
36:42
No, that's in three line reading there, Fraser.
36:46
Where he goes. And which member of the
36:47
population are you? Are you?
36:49
Oh, what's the line? Oh, yeah, population control.
36:53
And which member of the population are you controlling
36:55
this time? Helena?
36:56
It's great. He's properly furious.
36:59
Yeah, but it's, it's it's when he's trying to be properly
37:03
furious. That's you know, that's when he
37:05
kind of when he's a bit sort of like I boggly and you know.
37:09
Marcaine, if they're dead, yeah, yes, indeed.
37:15
You know, that's that's when he kind of.
37:17
Contained anger though. He can.
37:20
You really can. You really can.
37:22
And you know, it's it takes someone like Matt Smith.
37:25
Matt Smith has got the full range of anger I feel Matt Smith
37:27
can do scout you angry. You can do, you know, very
37:30
still, very quiet, angry and you can pull all the faces you want,
37:33
but. You embarrass me, River.
37:36
Exactly. Place.
37:39
He can eat every type of angry I think I've seen Matt Smith do,
37:41
and I think he can really nail it.
37:43
Whereas with Sylvester, you do get some points where you just
37:46
think, Oh no, this isn't this isn't the the the material for
37:50
you. I think there's a lot of
37:52
similarities between Smith and McCoy, actually far more than I
37:55
do between Smith and Trout and which is the the comparison a
37:59
lot of people make. I think for me the 11th Doctor
38:03
has always been the 7th Doctor through the lens of the 2nd
38:05
Doctor. Oh, nice one.
38:09
You know, it's the 11th Doctor has always had that dark
38:12
manipulative side, but he plays himself like the 2nd and the 2nd
38:16
Doctor was like that as well, just not as.
38:18
I feel as the 2nd Doctor was a bit more honest about it though
38:20
than the. 11th yeah, yeah, yeah. So you you take the the 7th
38:23
doctor and you Liam as the the the second you get the 11th.
38:30
Oh, man, Oh, man. The scene between the snipers is
38:32
coming up. It's just it's simply one of the
38:34
best Doctor Who's scenes ever. One, because of what it says
38:37
about the Doctor, and two, just as a dramatic scene.
38:41
Absolutely. And how it's framed.
38:44
It's it's clothes direction at its best as well.
38:47
Yeah. You see the doctor, but then he
38:50
disappears and then just pops up behind them and McCoy gets it
38:56
pitch perfect because he doesn't go to what?
39:03
You know what? Doesn't go to what I think is
39:06
vital is to fella behind. Yeah.
39:08
When he goes, he'll kill you because I know.
39:11
Yeah. I know.
39:13
It's his reaction to it and in fact in the scene that was taken
39:16
out where the fellow froze like gun right in his face and he
39:20
looks terrified. And McCoy does the same.
39:24
McCoy does has shrinks back and looks terrified, but then leans
39:27
forward and starts beckoning him in.
39:29
And. You like guns, don't you?
39:32
What guns are for? Pull a trigger.
39:34
End of life. Simple isn't?
39:36
It he puts that menace in it. So pull a trigger.
39:38
End of life. I know it's when he goes well.
39:42
Why don't you do it then? This is why you can't write this
39:50
off things like this. But you know, the performance is
39:55
one thing, but like you say, this speaks so much about the
39:58
character of the Doctor because, you know, for me, this is what
40:02
the Doctor should be. You know the Doctor is solving
40:07
the problem without any violence, without any.
40:11
Strong it's just words it's just pure words there's no trickery
40:14
there's no you know sleight of hand or anything it's just a man
40:19
going to talk to another man and you know by the power of words
40:25
that's that's the doctor's secret weapon is words and
40:28
always has been an. Always don't mind the Doctor
40:30
being violent because I think it you can get some great scenes
40:33
out of it. I prefer it when he uses
40:35
intelligence in that scene right in the documentary.
40:39
It's so interesting. They're giving McCoy like, no,
40:42
throw the gun away, Sylvester, throw the gun away and he goes,
40:46
why do I need to throw the gun away?
40:47
I've disarmed him. I'll just hold it.
40:50
You know, I've done what I need to do in this scene and I'm
40:54
like, my God, man, all those stories about him bringing it in
40:57
the studio, I'm just constantly coming up with ideas.
41:01
That's it there, you know, because if he's thrown it away,
41:03
it's a bit, it's a bit dramatic, a bit over the top.
41:06
No, no, I've got your gun. You know it's.
41:09
You see things like the, you know, the 13th doctor where it's
41:12
like all about I don't like guns, don't bring guns to me,
41:15
you know, and it's this is just understated.
41:19
It's doing exactly the same thing, but you know, so
41:21
understated of just I'll take the gun now.
41:24
Thank you, you that I'm not even looking after the one at the
41:28
background who's, you know, could easily Take Me Out as
41:31
well. But doesn't, you know, has
41:33
exactly the same issue. You know, I'm not even looking
41:35
at you. Just throw your gun away.
41:37
But actually in the background, he doesn't take his eyes off the
41:41
other sniper and it's just a wonderfully still intensity.
41:46
I think he gives a great performance.
41:48
It's two scenes. Oh, I love all this.
41:52
All these massive levers in the candy kitchen and then the
41:55
diagram on the wall of all the coloured lights going, you know,
41:59
and then you see it all going through the pipes and the cogs
42:02
going, oh, it's just great. Shadow of the Cogs and the
42:05
wheels and it's it's such a brilliant setting.
42:09
I think Helena's office is quite.
42:10
Quite. This is over late though.
42:12
It's terrible. It's.
42:14
What's what's going on in the walls?
42:16
I mean that looks like newspaper print.
42:20
If you look at it a certain way, it looks like see, this is
42:22
something I've only just noticed watching now.
42:24
This is what I'm saying. This story rewards every time
42:26
you watch it. Looking at that set now you can
42:29
you could look at that the real walls and like think that is
42:33
newspaper print. She's pasted our walls with
42:37
newspapers. Why would someone?
42:39
Oh, man, It's, it's, it's what's.
42:42
She's got the paper on her desk, isn't she?
42:45
It's called the grief. I think it's the subversive
42:48
paper. Maybe she papers it over her
42:51
walls to remind her of this dreadful grief that she has to
42:54
conquer. Oh, see, Watch how she plays
42:58
this scene here where she goes. No, you're going to the
43:01
auditorium. The late night of the forum.
43:04
Underplayed now. Very menacing and actually
43:08
Sophie Audrey's delivery of I'm Not Frightened of you is great
43:14
ever. I love this Cliff wagon coming
43:16
up where it's just him looking at the poster.
43:18
I I always like it when it's pre empting a jeopardy moment rather
43:23
than a jeopardy moment in itself.
43:26
And there's Earl Sigma. Well, I'm talking much about
43:28
Earl Sigma. I don't think he may such an
43:30
impact. I think he does not compared to
43:33
all the crazy characters that are around him.
43:35
But you know, if you think he he drive, he's M He's a lot like
43:39
Hugo, Hugo Lang from Twin Dilemma.
43:43
Oh, beautiful. Yeah, I don't think that's quite
43:46
beautiful as well. You know, he's, he's a bit of
43:49
peripheral character at first glance, but you realize he is
43:53
actually driving a lot of the plot forward.
43:55
So you know, he's going off and he's getting the, the protesters
43:58
to come back to the forum and he's, you know, he's, he's with
44:01
the doctor going at the candy kitchen.
44:02
So he is actually contributing quite a lot.
44:04
He just. He's the one that shows you in
44:05
the deleted scenes the there's true extent of the evil sweets.
44:11
Fraser. I can't do anything until I
44:13
found my list now can I? It's bureaucracy again, isn't
44:18
it? He gets a wonderful deleted
44:20
scene as well, a really great scene on the street where he
44:23
meets McCoy and he tells him about the forum and what goes on
44:26
there. Oh, excuse me.
44:32
That's you. And this has got a wonderful
44:35
under score at the end of this marvellous.
44:44
One thing I kind of would criticize about 3, but I think 3
44:50
is really great, is a lot of stuff happens very quickly.
44:53
Factories fall, the regime comes down, but it's sort of directed
44:57
in a way. The pace is directed in a way
45:00
that it just feels like the bombs been sort of dropped in
45:04
two and now you're just seeing the consequences happen faster
45:08
and faster. And Hellen, I just can't keep up
45:10
with it, even though she's trying to send people here and
45:13
get the candy man there and get Daisy K there and try and, you
45:16
know, murder as many people as she can to bring them to heel.
45:19
Know the revolution has started and it's coming for you.
45:23
Hellen A and. That's the thing, you know,
45:24
it's, it goes back to the, you know, this is all happening in
45:28
one night, sort of. Feeling tonight, Fraser?
45:32
You know, the, it's, it's kind of like the avalanche has
45:35
already started. The doctors just put a few, you
45:39
know, specific charges here and there.
45:41
That's just going to escalate it and do everything in like a
45:44
night rather than a week or so. Well, look, I think as if we
45:49
should go back to Twitter because we do have lots more
45:53
questions. Let's give in one second because
45:56
I can't actually utilize my screen until BBC iPlayer goes on
46:00
to the next episode and it's done.
46:02
So OK, right here I go. Would you like to see a
46:07
confectionery based villain return?
46:09
And what sweetie monster would it be?
46:11
Asks Andy Parkinson. Oh, confectionery basements.
46:16
I think there's probably scope for that, especially in the new
46:19
series, the one that's coming up, because I think what Rusty
46:22
is going for in Series A, as I'm calling it, is a very much more
46:27
light hearted approach than he's had in the past.
46:30
I think he's looking very much outside the the doctor with the
46:34
baggage of the time war and the lonely God and all the rest of
46:37
it. He's he's wanting to give us a
46:41
doctor that's a lot more carefree and, you know, enjoying
46:46
his time out in the universe. I think to come across a sweetly
46:52
based monster would be quite fit.
46:53
You know, we've got a music based monster out there.
46:55
We know that's coming up in the second episode for Definite, so
46:58
yeah, I think. You can make that leap.
47:00
Yeah. What, sweetie?
47:03
Oh, I don't know what we're left with now.
47:05
It is because. What's popular a Haribo monster?
47:10
Oh God, yes, Haribo. God, that would be hideous.
47:14
A heart for a head. The space mix.
47:17
Rather than space babies, it's space mix.
47:19
Just to get Dolly mixes. Oh no, I suppose that's, well, I
47:21
bet a basset again, isn't it? I'm trying to think what
47:23
sweeties are. Oh, do you know what would be
47:25
really scary? Those horrible strawberry laces.
47:28
Imagine them coming after you. Do you know what would be the
47:31
ultimate though, really when you think about it?
47:33
Go on. Tuck of the killer Jelly babies.
47:38
I like the State Park marshmallow man from
47:40
Ghostbusters Two. An enormous journey, baby coming
47:43
after you. Oh no, wait, didn't did Shrek
47:46
Two do that? Oh no, he's a ginger.
47:48
Gingerbread man, Yes. Or Doctor?
47:51
Are you thinking of Jelly Babies again?
47:53
Andy Parkinson, you take us to surreal places, but we love it.
47:57
OK, well Joe Llewyn asks. What do you prefer, Kangs or the
48:01
Happiness Patrol? Also, would the Candyman have
48:04
been a more effective villain if his voice was more Scandinavian
48:07
death metal singer and less high pitched?
48:10
Robot So would would it be better if the Candyman sounded
48:16
like the Fisher King when he screams?
48:19
No, I like I like that. I think because there is the
48:24
camp element to have the high pitched voice really kind of
48:29
leans into that sort of if you try to make them more
48:32
terrifying, I don't think it would you'd have the the
48:34
juxtaposition. I know it works well with the
48:36
quarks, but don't think would work well quite as well here.
48:40
What was the first question again?
48:43
Uh, do you prefer Kangs or the Happiness Patrol?
48:45
Well, they're both groups of girls.
48:47
You know, Yeah, yeah. Happiness Patrol, definitely.
48:50
Oh really? Oh yeah, actually, the Happiness
48:53
Patrol is all played by insane eccentrics, whereas the Kangs
48:56
are all played by girls just out of, you know, Eton trying to
49:00
pretend that they're rough St. kids.
49:03
OK, well, John Hall asked what this story have been as beloved
49:06
by you if the Candy Man's design had remained true.
49:09
We've covered that. Sorry, John, we've covered that
49:11
one. We've.
49:11
Covered that so it's I mean I'm just looking at a picture of now
49:14
because whether the way that IPO has stopped it's it's that
49:16
classic sort of you know candy man pose and it's it's so it's
49:24
just fantastic. I mean, look, you've got, you've
49:26
got the, you've got a purple liquid short sort for a head.
49:30
The Bubbly 10 it was. And is them our favourites?
49:32
Yeah, and those hypno eyes, but then you've got the sort of
49:36
metal Tash across them as well, which they've kind of added to
49:42
cover the mouth doctors most a little bit.
49:44
I think it just do you remember the he man villain like trap jaw
49:48
I think he was called. Yeah, yeah.
49:51
So that's adding and that then you've got the sort of the
49:54
humbug is the body with the circuits in, but all the sort
49:57
of, you know, crystallized sugar oozing out of it, you know.
50:04
So it's Stephens Jumper, isn't it?
50:06
Yeah, Stephens Jumper from Celestial Time here, but he's
50:10
like dribbled. I'm not really into cannibalism,
50:14
but someone offered me that head, you know, as a genuine
50:17
bobbly licorice. Also, the only thing, the only
50:19
thing I don't think works it's when he's on the run, it's the
50:24
slippers he's got because they clearly slippers, but it's it's.
50:29
You know, it's like Marsh man, He's got marshmallow feet.
50:31
He's got that. He's got that he.
50:33
Salvaged it. He's got the the literature all
50:37
sort of crotch as well that that sort of like the coconut wheel
50:40
you want isn't. It your pardon.
50:42
He's a coconut crotch. And then he's got he's got like
50:46
the like sticks of rock for arms and legs and fingers.
50:50
And I'm all getting like glued together with this crystallized
50:55
sugar. It's building the plot as well.
50:57
You know, we've talked all over the top of all of these best
50:59
scenes and everything. And but it's like, you know,
51:01
when Gilbert M saying, you know, when the doctor freezes in the
51:05
floor with the lemonade and Gilbert said, you need to keep
51:07
moving otherwise you will turn into a slab of toffee.
51:10
And Gilbert M is just like, you know what, bitch, do it.
51:13
I'm sick of your shit, to be honest with you.
51:15
This is this is what I get all day, every day.
51:18
All I get is grief off you. You're stuck to the floor now.
51:20
You know what, bitch? Suck it up.
51:22
I'm sick of you. I think you're the Gilbert M of
51:25
hamster with blood pen knife. He's the contrary run in this.
51:28
When they go to the forum, he's there with the Happiness Patrol
51:30
and then he's going Bouch Smouch, you know, joining in
51:33
with all the all the chaos and then runs off with her husband.
51:38
Is he very self self-serving? Then that's not you at all then.
51:43
He's very, you know, he's, he says the candy man.
51:45
You need me as much as I need you.
51:47
So you kind of. I need you.
51:49
Yes, so obviously the candy man needs Gilbert and M as he's
51:54
lucky slash husband to do do what he wants.
51:58
You wonder what what Gilbert M needs the candy man for, but
52:03
then you kind of think again a back about.
52:05
He brought him along in there in a suitcase.
52:07
He did. He bought his bones in a
52:09
suitcase, didn't he? So you wonder, is the only
52:11
reason Helena is keeping Gilbert M alive because he has, you
52:17
know, the candy man needs Gilbert M?
52:19
So without the candy man, you know, Gilbert M would have no
52:23
use on Terror Alpha. You know, you look at them.
52:25
I don't think we'll answer the question properly, but you know,
52:29
Sidis P is dispatched very quickly.
52:32
You know, was there a question about Priscilla P?
52:36
You know, why has she been when she's the big fanatic, why she's
52:39
stuck in the waiting area? And it's kind of like it's it
52:42
goes back to that whole totalitarian regime again,
52:45
where, you know, you keep an eye on the the competition.
52:51
You think, you know, Sidis P has already said I'm aiming for the
52:53
top. So that way, well, you'll watch
52:55
the. Top, I hope.
52:57
Exactly. You're after my job, so I'm
52:59
going to keep you down. The vet, the old first
53:02
opportunity. Same with Priscilla P You know,
53:04
she's obviously got the potential to rise above Helena,
53:08
so Helena is keeping her. You're in the waiting zone.
53:12
Wait, yes, that's what she says to her.
53:16
Well, David Rennie, the David Rennie, Dave Rennie asked David
53:20
Rennie, what would Fraser do in his Happiness Patrol audition?
53:24
Oh, and what talents do you have, Fraser?
53:28
I'd probably bore people to death about the Dominators.
53:32
No, I'll be there like the kid from great show The Galaxy with
53:35
a big zero. Put that down.
53:41
You'd be dead in seconds. I'll tell.
53:43
Yeah, I'm from a lightning bolt. Put that, put that same down.
53:46
There's another 4 1/2 hours of this.
53:49
By God, you are going to listen to the lot.
53:52
It's a skill. Well, Gareth Bowley asked if you
53:55
could expand this to four parts, what would you like to see in
53:58
the additional time we've school covered that it's all there
54:01
ready to go? That's it because there was a
54:04
lot you could put back intimate this four parts that's already
54:06
been took out. I think you know, specifically
54:09
if there was like a case of what more do you want?
54:11
I think it's more Gilbert then I'm being honest because like I
54:15
said, we'll get you know, when I'm getting an episode 3.
54:18
We'll see. He just has that briefest of the
54:22
lines at the end that explains his back story about well I
54:25
accidentally created germ warfare on my old planet and had
54:28
to run away with so I want more a bit more background about him.
54:34
Or John Normington as well, because there's a wonderful
54:37
scene where he goes in to interview Helen A, which is cut
54:40
out and he's like, well, there was one person I didn't get to
54:45
interview last time. And then and then, oh, no, I'm
54:47
sorry, the candy man. Sorry, not Helena the candy man.
54:49
The candy man comes in and basically tells him to fuck off
54:52
because you're not into. And then he turns around and he
54:54
goes, I don't give interviews. The candy man goes.
54:58
And Joseph C as well. Just build the characters.
55:02
Yeah, build buildable, but sort of Gilbert M's got, you know, in
55:06
just one or two lines you get such a back story that you think
55:09
actually, I want more of this. I want more, a better
55:13
understanding. I want him fleshed out.
55:14
So no better. Why, you know, what type of
55:17
person is this sort of like Carla Jacks Quillum tape that's
55:20
on the run, You know, this this mad sort of scientist that goes
55:24
on creating, you know, robots made out of sugar and shit like
55:28
that and more. Time with Ace and Susan Q as
55:32
well, I'd say. Yeah.
55:34
So basically every character, I want to know more scenes.
55:37
And you know, how dare they take one line of Sheila Hancocks out.
55:41
But they did. Yep.
55:44
You know, there's a bit where she makes Joseph see, watch her
55:53
terrible joke and speech on the screen, and then she makes him
55:57
applause. She stand there, go, well, he's
56:00
like she's like, thank you. It's wonderful.
56:05
OK, last question for this episode then from James Lark.
56:09
Is there any convincing queer reading of this story, at least
56:13
any more than the rest of Doctor Who?
56:15
Or is that just wishful thinking?
56:17
And he puts in brackets? He's not wearing a pink
56:19
triangle, however many times people write that he is.
56:24
I think we've kind of discussed that a little bit as well with
56:26
the relationship between the handyman and Gilbert M feels
56:30
very husband and husbandy and again to me and apologize to
56:34
anyone that as a straight white man, I'm offended by saying
56:38
that. And, you know, that's, that's
56:40
how it does kind of come across to me.
56:43
And, you know, I think what you've said about, you know, the
56:45
Happiness Patrol and you know, Thatcher sending up coppers for
56:49
the cottages, really, you know, you can see that that parallel
56:55
as well. I think there's a, there's a
56:56
reading in there of just like, you know, there was for such a
57:00
long time. It was like, yeah, we know it's
57:02
there, like the grief, but you're not allowed to show it.
57:06
You're not allowed to do it in public, you know, So I think
57:09
there's that reading as well of just hiding who you really are.
57:12
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
57:14
And again with them, with Gilbert M and Joseph C winning
57:18
off quite clearly together at the end.
57:20
There's a, you know, if if those had been more sympathetic
57:23
characters, I think there could have been a nice, a nice read in
57:27
there as to well, you know, we've we've lived a lie.
57:31
We're now not living that lie. We are going to go off and, you
57:36
know, into the sunset as it were.
57:38
Literally you see the shout going.
57:41
Off. You do you do so that you know,
57:43
if if those have been, you know, if that have been, well, you'd
57:49
have to have a different character because I think
57:50
Gilbert M is pretty irredeemable.
57:53
But you know, Joseph C going off with another character and
57:56
saying, well, actually, you know, I know, you know, it's
58:01
that sort of reason isn't of like you forced me to be happy
58:03
with pretend I'm happy with you, but I've never been happy with
58:06
you. I'm happy with this man.
58:08
That could have been a really, you know, powerful.
58:12
When I think Joseph Caesar, a demon born as well because he
58:14
knows exactly what is going on and he's just very disinterested
58:19
about it all. He licks the fondant surprise
58:22
and goes, oh, you know, after someone has just been killed.
58:25
But he's Dennis isn't, He's Dennis Thatcher.
58:28
Dennis was always kind of, you know, in the background just,
58:31
you know, pottering around, being a bit of a lovely old
58:34
bungalow sort of thing. So he's very much the Dennis
58:38
Dennis Thatcher character, yeah. Well, look, we'll end on that
58:42
point there. There are a handful more
58:44
questions, but we'll cover them in part three with our three
58:46
fabulous things. Are you enjoying this so far?
58:50
Oh, happiness is prevailing. Oh, cut it there.