Latest / Cultivator Podcast / Episode 3 - Cultivator Interview - Mitch Rambo
Transcript
- Justin Stice: Yeah. Hey, what's up? Welcome to the Cultivator Podcast. I'm so excited you guys are hanging out with us today. Man, I'm excited. This is kind of our first interview one, hanging out with kind of an everyday person that's just doing their thing. So this is my buddy Mitch Rambo. What is up? What's up? Man, I've known Mitch. We man, it's been a long time. A long time. Like 15 years. Yeah, at least. Yeah. Or long. Since house. Yeah. Dang. Crazy. So man, I'm excited you're here today. ⁓ you you're one of my favorite people in the world. ⁓ But more than that, I just I love just who you are, how you just kinda go about your life and all the things that you do. And so I would just love just to kind of just ask the question. I wouldn't s you're your story. Okay. ⁓ and then kinda we'll go from there and see what happens. ⁓ I'll start with I'm not gonna start from I was bored in. I'll just talk about since I'm a musician and that's kind of the I guess the reason I'm here. Is that the Yeah, I guess. Yeah. I I started playing guitar when I was about eleven or so. ⁓ and I'll kind of just I'll make this short. Started gigging when I was at church about th I don't know if I'd call those gigs, but started playing live when I was about thirteen and I got into a punk band. Nice. Called Oswald. Oswald Oswald with hits like Patrick the Goat and Do you still remember that song? Do you still Patrick? ⁓ yeah, I've got it. I've got I somehow I have it in my like files. I don't know how that survived the That's amazing. Twenty five years. ⁓ Yeah, and so that was my first like entry into really playing life. Like I mean locally. Yeah. But ⁓ I'll get back to this, but we had places to play like Tokyo Joe's. ⁓ that was the main one when I was that young. I got a little bit older, I got into a metal band when I was eighteen, almost like high school er you know, yeah age. What was anybody? Archers. Archers. Archers with Chase. Myers and Patrick Graff and Okay. And you like toured around a little right? Yeah, a little bit. And that was my first yeah, that was my first, you know, entry into playing outside of town. And then we actually did some touring up and ⁓ to like Midwesty, I guess, area and nice festivals and stuff. So it was real It was really cool doing that, but didn't make any money. I lost money, actually. You're paying to play kind of thing. And ⁓ so and that's whenever we had more venues. Like we had Tokyo Joe's, The Way, which was this old like rotting church that these people looking back, they were probably my age now. They always seem so much older. They were like my age. And I mean we got to that was really we got to play with some awesome metal bands. O Sleeper, Poison the Well, Gan dance Dance Gavin Dance, which is wild. That's crazy. I mean some big yeah now they're you know big. ⁓ so really fun. And so we had that commute a really great music community, Underground alt ⁓ you know. Alternative scene, whatever you to I'm I guess we'll come back to that in a second. And then ⁓ I finally realized that I could get paid to play music. So I did a bunch of cover gigs and some hired gun stuff for country people. And that introduced me to ⁓ my buddy Trent and we started No Dry County. They already existed, but it was different. And so we started our version of it. Got to tour and 'cause y'all got pretty big, right? I mean Sure. I guess compared compared to me now. But I mean like in the in it during that time season, like y'all like Flatland Calvary would open for you guys. Correct. Yeah. Which is I don't that's bizarre. Was there any other guys that are like big names now that open for you guys? I'm sure I I can't think of any like off the top of my head, but I mean it was during a time like where ⁓ Will, which William Clark Green, yeah, I mean, he produced one of our albums for we didn't even pay him. Like we were just friends. Yeah, you would but yeah. We would party with them. Yeah. Which I was drinking heavily during this time. Heavily. And so ⁓ we'd party with them and I mean all these other guys that are now like doing cooler things now. So it is pretty wild. And yeah, No Dry County was ⁓ and they they still they don't play much. They play about once or twice a year now. Okay. But still great. And after I quit they kept going and did some I mean even cooler things. That's so So this is what, early twenties? Yeah, early twenties, like twenty one, twenty two, twenty three. Okay, cool. And then ⁓ when I quit I decided to do the watery graves. Yes. I love the that's my fave. That's my fave so far. Water gates. Very bluesy. Blues rock band and that kind of fizzled out. It was just So hard to keep like because it was like partially a cover man, partially original. Yeah. So it was always flipping musicians and drummers and bassists and yeah. And I just got tired of it. And I started writing what I really loved, which is like that emo stuff from the early 2000s. Going back to that. I ended up going back to that. And that's the stuff that I've always gravitated towards anyways. Yeah. And so that's whenever I decided to do like heavy water. Yeah. So I've been doing that for the past like five years. And ⁓ so what I love I love it, man. It's so good. And one of the things I love cool too about Heavy Water is every album cover has been a piece of art from your dad, right? Right. Well, all but one. Yeah. Okay. And so that's yes. And so that is super special. Whenever my grandma died, I got all of ⁓ my dad's paintings. Yeah. Sorry, Lindsay. ⁓ But I love it, dude. I I used I love seeing like in dude it seems like That whatever painting that you use matches the album, like the vibe of it almost. That's the that was the goal. Okay. And it just but most of his paintings, the two of the paintings that I've used from him were I think they're whenever he signed it's in nineteen seventy two. Really? He went to school for art, did I tell you that? Yeah, it's cra it's crazy. It was weird. Yeah. I and honestly, like I've met Dirk Grand Bow on one. I would never expected him to be like a legit artist. Amazing artist, yeah. Super creative and ⁓ Which is cool. My whole family has been creative or, you know, musical or whatever. So it was, you know, I was privileged to grow up in that. but there is a new single, this is interesting, called ⁓ My God, I kinda told you about it a bit. and the album art is when these hands, these wooden hands, like that, you know, yeah. That ⁓ Pop had, my grandpa. Yeah. Which Justin knows. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Which is crazy. So her his granddad was a a a pastor in West Texas and was actually in Jamie, my wife's hometown. Like ⁓ and so we have a crazy cool connection. Weird, yeah, weird connection that we figured out one day. ⁓ it's crazy. But yeah, and like that that stuff that heavy water, why it's so special to me, I guess, is because and this is kinda one reason I'm here to talk about is the what I sing about and what I write about. So a lot of it's the struggle with my Mental health. Yeah. Which has been a journey for too long. my same journey but with faith. Yeah. And so, you know, I think we growing up in the church, we we tend to glance over the the doubts and the questions. Yeah. ⁓ that are big questions and we just chalk it up. ⁓ whatever. Yeah. Says it in Bible there. Yeah. It's done. Yeah, exactly. That's right there. Which I, you know, I I was never okay with as I was inquisit inquisitive. But ⁓ so that's kind of the one thing that I want people to like grab onto is and I was hoping that 'cause I have bands like that that I listen to. the music is good, but what's really good is the message. I said that's what I want. I mean, I want to be artist and creative and I want people to to stir like the thoughts and and kind of and ask those questions. Ask questions. And like it's okay to ask questions. It's okay to have doubt. It's all and like being able to put that into an artistic thing, I think is just really cool. And so that's that then that goes back to the the praying hands and the some of the the iconography that I put I love the and you know, whatever the paintings and stuff like that. So I love it. I love it. ⁓ but that's where yeah that's where I am musically, you know, I'm always trying to do something. Yeah. Record and that's what I enjoy the most actually is recording. ⁓ and writing. I love playing live, but the other side of that is is is more fulfilling. Yeah. That's awesome. I love it. ⁓ yeah, and that so going back to well more I guess what I do I do not make money playing heavy waters. ⁓ playing emo music, flashback emo music. ⁓ what? Yeah. But yeah, thirty seven years old playing emo music for so I've been so what I do for day job is I've been teaching for ⁓ it's ⁓ twenty years, dude. You've been teaching guitar lessons for twenty years? Like December or whatever. What? That's insane. Started teaching when I was in high school. Yeah. And ⁓ that was always like a way just to supplement my income whenever I was gigging. Yeah. And ⁓ as well as waiting tables, ⁓ working in Kitchens ⁓ being a helping you to everything. Yeah. That you have to deal with. ⁓ but it was always something that I had. I always had a student or two or three or whatever. And so now but this is like your primary like way that you make money now, is that? That's amazing. Yeah. And ⁓ so it's yeah, twenty years and I usually average like twenty to thirty students now. But ⁓ Is there room is there space for more students? Yeah, yeah. Hey, yes. Yeah, always space. But it's ⁓ It's a great way to supplement that income and allow me to have some freedom and time to do well, like this. Yeah. Like at this point, I it's what time is it? Three o'clock like most people are working. Yeah. And so ⁓ I really I really do love it. How you and Laurie have been married how long now? ⁓ fifteen years. No, t I'm sorry. Dang. No, not ten years. We've been together for fifteen years. Okay. Ten years in September, yeah. Okay. Yes. I love that. All right. So yes, she's part of my life. I it's not just music. And actually she is the biggest supporter, which is like I mean That's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean obviously my parents, but she's never been like You know, like what if you ⁓ didn't do that? Like her one. She's like, no, like she's this you gotta do she she understands that like if I didn't do music cr if I didn't create, if I didn't Yeah. It would fulfill my my soul like that that I I couldn't I wouldn't exist. Like yeah, it just wouldn't happen. But I think there's so for people that are creative like you, and I try to be creative sometimes, but there's something about it for you, specifically of like, man, there's it there's a sense of spirituality in your spiritual life that comes from being able to create. Yeah. And I think you're right. I think if for for for you and for others, I mean if you take away the ability to create, that will s your your relationship with God would suffer tremendously. Well and that's that I tr I ⁓ I won't get on like into my crappy theology, but it's all right. it's something that that I think is innate in yeah, humanity. Yes. I mean we we create all the time, whether you don't think you're creative or not, it's it's there. And I think that that reflects like I'm you know, I'm not a Sorry folks, I'm not a creationist. But which is funny because we're talking about creating, but yeah. But there's 'cause there's always a process. Yeah. Right. And so whatever that looks like, like I've got a process where I sit down and I bust out I don't use a notebook, I bust out my phone so I can write some lyrics and I have my guitar and then I explore and then eventually that leads into this song, right? Hopefully a good song problem. Yeah. Yeah. And then so I think everybody does that to an extent, right? ⁓ And it it can look like so many different things. I think we really I 'cause I think we were created to create And that could look so many things. It could be like creating an amazing meal for your family. Yeah. Or baby. Exc I mean like I like creating baby. I don't know anything about that. ⁓ so yeah, I yes, I do think that creating is ⁓ yeah, part of us. Yeah. So but Anyways, no, I I think I love it. No, I just try to think too I know for you and just knowing you for years how your your your health has become a really big part of your life too. And I think trying to talk this is when we talk about h being healthy and whole, right? So our idea of a cultivator is somebody that's healthy and whole in Christ who makes a kingdom difference where they live, work, learn and play. Yep. And I think you have been on a journey in your own life w with your health and wholeness. And that could be mental health, physical health, all that. And I think that's been a huge part of just your life. I mean, you mentioned earlier you used to drink, and I know that's really something you don't drink anymore and you don't what else and I think that's that's just a part of your story as well. Like I think that I would love to hear some more about that. Well, we've had some like addiction in our family. I won't get in all that. Yeah. But I was living somebody who was drinking a lot and but we were all partying hard. I mean I drank six nights six nights a week or or more. Yeah. And not like a cat I never casually drank. Yeah. It was just all I was drunk every single every single time. Yeah. and it was just part of it. I partied with like I said with Will. Yeah. Or you know, or the ba I that's part of musician life as well. But it became a problem where it was hurting work. Obviously gigs. Yeah. I mean, drinking and I mean that's yeah. Playing, you know, it's it can be a pr it can be an issue. Yeah. ⁓ relationships. ⁓ the biggest one on it it was my health and my mental health. Like I was I got sick all the time. I mean your immune system is just not discipline. Yeah. Drinking six six seven that's week. ⁓ and then my eventually my mental health and I was I just kinda woke up one day. I was like have to change something 'cause it's so or just hurting so bad hurting so much, right? ⁓ and I mean it was it was hard. I mean I didn't like have DTs or anything you'd have to go. Yeah. Thank thankfully. I mean it was wasn't that level, but ⁓ it was hard and it took a little while. Yeah. You know, a couple of months of figuring out and just finally stopped. Yeah. That's amazing. So So with that and then just with just kind of even for like he You can't tell, Mitch is pretty jacked. ⁓ and so like so but like I know exercise and working out and all those things became really big in your life too. Yeah. I that I think that was just some carryover from like high school. Like I I played football, always skateboarded, I mean rollerblade, you know, all that just yeah, fun physical activity. It actually never stopped like skating and stuff. Even when I was the hammered all the time. I just still skating and like doing I mean do being active. Well and I used to weigh about two hundred and thirty pounds. Yes. And so when I drank, yep when I when I quit drinking I lost some weight and then I started I got really into CrossFit, which is Yeah. If I could have go back in time I wouldn't have done that. Yeah. I mean that was just something that really served my obviously When it was really too popular big during that time too. But like overall the fitness served like my yeah physical health, but My mental health, I mean like yeah, a ton. Yeah. Even now. Like and So with that, you like there can there be days or a couple of days if you haven't like not worked out or not in your normal routine, does it i it it'll mess? I mean, I know for me, like I'm not as consistent and normal and disciplined as you are, but the days that I do and the weeks that I consistently work out, like I can tell so much in the way that I think whatever like there's a there's a piece of it that's like, ugh, feel gross, like Yeah, you know, all that. There's also Just like a mental piece that we've talked about some of my struggles, like I have to work out. Yeah. Not because I want to be fit, but just 'cause it's it's I have to. You have to. It's yeah. A little bit different. Yeah. Here's a little bit different, yeah. But ⁓ so yeah, I mean and I I still do, and it's it's kept been a part of my routine for you know, since I was twenty, three, twenty two, whatever. Yeah. Do you think how do you think it sometimes kind of just our physical life and your journey and else, how that can connect to our spiritual life as well. Yeah. I you know, like there's this thing I especially when I like run. Yeah. I feel this. Like you're out of nature. There's these like I've got as I've gotten older, I've stopped. I'll go for walks or runs and I'll have my headphones in. And then I'll notice when I'm done. I'm like, I didn't even turn anything on. That's it's just it's just silence. Silence. And so there which is weird. I've never I'm always like phone, guitar, running, whatever, running around. ⁓ and so I do think that there is something spiritual about like seeing what's around you and like like being outside and things like that. But even lifting. I mean, being a part of your s like realizing what your body can do and what it's why it ⁓ yeah why you have your body is bodily you know, form and so Think so. I mean, I think there's this. I love it. Yeah, for sure. That's really good. Okay, so we've talked about music, fitness, health, everything else. And I think what's been really cool, so our kind of this whole thing, we just we kind of our whole thing is like, man, what is it that kind of stirred inside of you that you feel like you would want to offer? And and what I love is I don't know, several months ago, Mitch had been kind of thinking on this idea and this thing of of a venue space. So we have a really cool building, we have a cool space, cool music, whatever else. And so we through on this idea of just creating a space for live music, right? Because we have there's tons of bars, there's tons of whatever else, but there's not very many spaces here in town that's just dedicated to like the artist. Yeah. And even a f like the ability to have a full band even. And we we have a space that has that ability. And so man, we s Mitch started this thing called Stained Glass Society. And it really is kind of we're trying to we're still figuring it out. So yeah. Yeah. But I loved it because I love it because we've been able to like some hardcore metal shows. Damn. So I'm talking about what's the what's the one that that one band plays on the Raging the machine and it's like, what's when it ⁓ what's the name of that what's that song? It's a killing in the name of Dim Ganning. But if you know the end of the song. If you want to do what you tell me. And then they scream that they think it's so cool in the church. I know. It's hilarious. Whatever. Whatever. But but it's been cool to create space for that. Yeah. ⁓ and and so I want Kind of tell me about that. Like where did this king come from? Where did this idea of this thing I'm gonna go back to the lessons part for a second. Yeah. And so with lessons, you know, I most of my my clientele's kids or teenagers, real a lot of teenagers. And so I kinda and that this is thanks to you. Stuff that we've talked about on Sundays or even in your backyard, like this, like paying attention and being intentional about living, right? We've talked about that. And then Play right. And so I started looking at where I work and this chance I have to be a positive person in well, not just kids, but like all my students. Yeah. And so I started thinking about that. I was like, man, like I don't know if these kids have a good home life. I don't know if this adult is suffering from something. Yeah. And so what I I I guess that hit me and then I started thinking about like some of these like students ⁓ asking them like, Hey, do you ever go to a concerts? Do you start a band with your friends? None of them do anymore. Yeah. And so I was like, Man, like that sucks. Yeah. Just 'cause I had that. But yeah. And so I started thinking about that and I was like, man, the venue would be cool. But also whenever I was in Oswald and the Archers, we had venues, like I said. And the people that ran the venues were in their thirties and forties. Yeah. ⁓ and it was always like this safe place. My parents always dropped me off at the crappy forty eighth Boston like yeah ghetto venue. Yeah. And ⁓ felt good about it because David Harrison was there. Yeah. And you know, the Harrisons were there and to to watch over us and make sure that there wasn't anybody acting fool. So I thought about that and ⁓ I was like, man, that'd be awesome. Yeah. I mean, 'cause you've kind of not pushed, but mentioned like getting people to be active in the community, which is that's that's now that I've gotten older, I ⁓ I think That is ⁓ our our calling. I mean it's go and make disciples, but we've talked about what that means disciples, and it's not not what everybody thinks it is. And so it's just like this love on people and be there and chat and I mean, whatever that looks like and ⁓ You're you're cultivating a relationship with somebody that you're you're earning trust, you're earning place that Whenever that conversation, there could times that spiritual conversations come up and talk and it's not a pressured or force thing, but you but you've put the work in intentionally on that relationship with somebody. And so I think that's kind of felt, I guess, you know, the whole word convicted, right? Yeah. Convicted for that. Do this. But And it just stems back from my youth and ⁓ having these places to play and That's just what I kind of wanted to do and and selfishly also, like we can play there. Unless you're a Texas country band or a cover band. So ⁓ but yeah, I mean it's been awesome. We had show last last Friday and it was I mean, I think Clayton said Blue House Productions, he does he threw the show and we hosted it. Yeah. ⁓ two hundred and ten people. Are you serious? I think so. That's amazing. Which is crazy. That's the biggest one we've had. That is the biggest one we've had. So that's incredible. ⁓ It was busy. I I love it. The sanctuary is huge. So it's Yeah. It doesn't seem like that. And so we'll work on like filling smaller space. Yeah, we probably should have got the thingies up and I didn't even think about that. No, you're good. But I I did I th I love that. And I think what I love is that this has just come out of something that you're passionate about. Like w this has been our whole thing is like getting people something that they're passionate about. It doesn't have to be some random thing that you're just like, ⁓ dude, I don't know about it's like man, I you're passionate about music and cr you're passionate about younger people coming up and and having a space to play. And so it It became like this nat and we're like, dude, we have a resear we have a big frickin' building that doesn't get used on the weekends that much. I mean and like that was another thing. Like whenever I grew up we had like I said, we had those, but it was just like this tiny PA, crabby. But we've got a full I mean a PA. Like we can record you while you're playing live. We've got lights, we've got ⁓ Yeah, screens, a green room, like I mean a green room that's also a prayer room, and so they're in there like doing whatever they're doing. Dude that came in. ⁓ I mean it's I I love it 'cause it's fun. Yeah. And it doesn't feel like I mean I've done some community stuff s sometimes just sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're walking around, handing out water. Yeah. People are rude. Like it's not you know, it's not so it is it's a it's a lot of fun and it's not just kids. It's adults like adults that come and play and it's they have a space to come and do their thing and I mean it's just that it's fun. It's fun and I can So if we're gonna dream a little bit about Stain Glass Society, like what in the next year, like we've started it and we've been kinda we're figuring it out, but like you you say the next year, what what kind of what would you love to see happen? What would you love to see stained glass do? I would like to see some touring bands come through. Yeah. Like get some guarantees if you want to donate to stained glass society, we would be good good place to donate money towards. ⁓ but like have touring bands come through. Have But have all sorts of stuff. Like I would love to have some country bands. I'd love to have No Drake County out. I'd love to have ⁓ Some more metal, some more punk. I mean, I don't want it to change as far as the vision. Yeah. I just want it to be a little bigger. Yeah. I mean, I I love it. I think it's a cool goal and I still want it to be a refuge for these all kids that might not have a you know, like I I didn't. We need I think you start thinking is how I think do we need to have like an a night where it's like we try to find all the high school bands in town. Like all we let's just find all the high school bands at the time. They had three of ⁓ Friday. They were like all in high school. We need except for Ghost Lux. Really. It was it was cool. I mean it's that's cool. I mean, they were in high school like early, early college. Yeah. But like I think we get that and then like when school's in session and like hanging out and like that would be just a cool thing of like however often we're Do you wanna know who brings out people? Who? High school bands. They Well, 'cause if you think about it, like thirty seven year old men do not bring people out. High school bands. 'Cause it's probably some of their like first times we're We have a gig, we're getting play, we're doing this thing. I love it. You got parents coming, aunts, uncles, grandparents, like everybody's just coming to watch their kid play show. Yeah, it's fun. And I mean, I love the saying glass. I mean, I think that's that's something I would like to do more of. And the teaching is so rewarding as well. But ⁓ I mean, I say all this like it will always be my music that takes like the front center of my consciousness. Yeah, for sure. But This stuff is very rewarding. So I love it. So with that, I keep on pushing. I'm gonna say this in public with everybody. ⁓ my god. And it would be like a Stevie Ravon, he's out in a desert, like all his muscles and his all of his tattoos show him with the electric guitar. And he would and and he's just gonna like frickin' kill it. That's my dream. I don't know. It's not gonna happen. It's just maybe it's just a photo shoot. That's all I need. You hang on your wall. That'll be a little weird. Jamie'd be like, Why do you have a picture of Mitch without a shirt on? I'm like, it was a dream. I wanted to see it happen. No, but man, what I love about you is that like in all of this, in teaching lessons in man y your marriage and just your friendships, you're really intentional. in I mean we were talking about earlier, like you have conversations, intentional conversations with some of your friends, and and it goes beyond the depth, right? It's what I appreciate is that like we can have just surface BS level com like r conversation. It's fine. But like I love every time we hang out on the back porch or we'd link there's like there's an in depth conversation that we get to have. Yeah. And I really appreciate that. And I and I appreciate like how much, man, like y you've been able to see like, ⁓ I have an opportunity to to just invest and pour into my students, into all the things. what's really cool and I I've only gotten to come one of them in the last few years is you do ⁓ What's it called when you bring all your students together? The showcase. The showcase. Yeah. And so that I when I got to come to that one, I know you do them every semester, I think. Yeah. Yeah. But that it was really cool. He used to see him bring all of his students in and let them do a showcase. ⁓ and I think in that I I see like how much you pour into them. and it's just really cool to see that. I mean, those are fun too. Well, and my I think my lessons are a little different because I generally go to their house. Yeah. Or they're at my house. And so it's not a studio. Yeah. So the setting is a little casual, which I think l ⁓ lends itself to have well, to be more personal. Yeah. Which has to be careful with that, obviously. It's still a business, right? But it is really neat to get everybody together and it's like this family time, like and we eat and I get to tell stories about their kids or just these adults or whatever. And ⁓ I do I enjoy those a lot. They're they can be stressful. But For sure. I have to get them to friggin' practice. To show up and practice and practice and have be ready for the showcase. See, I would be the dude that didn't you we would have lessons with and I would never practice and I would show up to the showcase and I would make you look bad because I hadn't practiced and done anything, but I still get up there and try. That's that's like my daily thing. Okay. Practice. All right. I wanna start closing up, but I do like I just kinda spoke with this idea of like practice. And like We talk about like following Jesus in this whole thing is more kind of like a way of life and there's a certain practice to it, right? And I think sometimes there can be a separation between this idea of being a Christian following Jesus and just the everydayness. So what would you say, what does it look like for you to just this idea of practicing guitar but like practice like following Jesus? What does that look like? Sometimes it looks pretty bad. Yeah, exactly. Well, it's it's so interesting because like like I said, my a lot of my because of you and Scott and Dave and well recently Craig, like seeing how y'all old guys live and our old guys. We are old guys. You're like not very much older than me at all. it's it's interesting how much my perspective has changed on faith. Especially religion. Yeah. Right? That's almost gone out the window. I don't even Yeah. It's it's just that's just done. about like yes, it has a lot to do with how Jesus would do things and how he did things. Yeah. But also it's like it's just how it should be. Yeah. Period. Like Jesus or not. Yeah. And so that's I think that's what's so interesting about it. Like if you're not a Christian Should you love on people? Yes. Yeah. Yes. If you are, should you? Yes. And so it's really easy once you look at it like that. I think we we sparse it out and it'll like, they're not Christians, so they don't do it a variety or nonsense. And so it's whatever you think about like that, to me it's a little bit easier to say, Okay, this is just how it should be. Yeah. And then we tie back to Jesus. Right. And so I love it. I guess that's it. I don't know. Is that bad? Is that bad? You're my pastor or you just you gotta like date. Come on, man. No I love it. Because I think I think sometimes we make it way harder than it's supposed to be and it has to be. Yeah. ⁓ it like there is a there's a core central thing of like, no, like we're we're called like love people. And even people that aren't believing like this should be a core thing of who you are doing. But for us there's like a there's like, yeah, we do this because we've had this person like sh like And I think we would do it anyways. Yeah. But I think having this like this reason and this thing to point back to, and it's once again to me, it goes back to this like creative attitude of like I'm not talking about creation, but like seeing something that's larger. So I think whenever as a creative person I see something larger and then all the rest like falls in line. It's not I But I think this idea is so like we're talking about this idea the definition that we use for spiritual formation ta a lot is this idea of being conformed to the image of Christ for the sake of others. Yes. And so the the the bigger picture everything else it's it's for the sake of others. Yeah. And I think once we begin to get that and understand that it moves a sense of like growth and maturity in our lives where it's not just for us and whatever it is, but it's it's actually for the people in the world around us. And I find that interesting because it's just like that's how we should ⁓ give whatever that looks like financially, you know, with our actions, whatever. Time, you're in yeah, all those things. Yeah. And that's as a just humans. Yeah. Period. Is for the sake of others, right? I think this selflessness is Super important. And I I say that I'm terrible about that. But ⁓ and I think that lends itself to this like spiritual thing, whatever whatever you want to call that. Like however you want to you know. And so I think it's the same thing. Whenever you start doing things for other people, it fulfills you in this for me, the spiritual, you know, way. But I love it. Dude, thank you. Yeah, thank you, buddy. This is awesome. I'm excited. Like this is Our first one to have like interviewing. So Mitch is kind of like helping us figure this out. But man, our hope is that like this would be valuable to you just to see like dude, Mitch is an everyday person that's teaching guitar lessons, that's being a freaking rock star, that's yeah, doing but doing all the things. But like in the midst of all of this, man, he's become intentional about like living a life n other reference instead of just self reference all the time. I mean we're all gonna start with it. But like but but there's man, you you you do it really well. and Thanks. Yeah. You know. Well. Don't feel like it most of the time. But well. Yeah. Anyways. And I want to thank you for being my ⁓ mentor and pastor and friend and all of it for so long. Thank you.