Latest / Community Routes / Episode 105: Therapy AI

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Episode 105: Therapy AI · Community Routes

0:37
It was like, Let Mom get out the
0:40
fan record.
0:41
Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
0:44
Roll it along.
0:47
How they can actually understand Chewbacca.
0:52
And I mean Chewbacca is not a droid, but like, that's amazing.
0:57
Like boogie woogie.
0:58
And then Rey has this little conversation, like, I know, I know.
1:02
And she's like, she's understanding it.
1:07
So I have lovingly called my little space
1:11
heater, my droid, and he's out with the air
1:14
conditioning unit as well as like, I have a droid with me.
1:18
I imagine there'll be a phase of human history
1:20
where everything will just become little droids, like you'll be trying
1:24
to fix your AC unit and there'll be a little droid that walks up to you.
1:27
Like maybe John. Yeah.
1:31
I'll always have a personality.
1:33
They have a personality. Is so cute.
1:35
The trashcan follows you around
1:37
and like, No, stop
1:39
trying to get work done.
1:45
But they get well.
1:46
Anyway, thanks so much for joining us, everyone.
1:48
Of course, this is Community
1:49
Roots, a place where we gather in community to talk about mental health
1:53
so we can travel that journey of life together.
1:56
I am your host, Samuel Richards.
1:58
I'm Julie Richards.
2:00
I'm Sarah Wakefield.
2:02
I'm sitting there thinking about traveling the journey of life together.
2:05
And all I can visualize is that little baby going up and down
2:09
the sand all over like travel, the journey of life
2:14
with the cutest little droid on the planet.
2:16
There's 20, 21 over the year.
2:18
The Droid maybe, or maybe you're on the sun.
2:20
That's where we're headed with this conversation.
2:22
To get you a little bit. That can fall. Yes.
2:25
And stuff. Yes.
2:27
Maybe that's something for the office.
2:30
You know, that would be cute.
2:32
I never really did learn how to use that.
2:35
Yeah. Yeah.
2:36
It's one of those like.
2:37
I go for my future.
2:39
That would be quite fun.
2:43
Well, speaking of robots
2:46
and the future, we kind of decided to take an interesting
2:50
take on today, which is something that's a little bit newsworthy.
2:56
so I was, you know, reading some articles.
2:59
It's something that
3:00
we've been kind of talk enough about, but there was something in The New Scientist
3:04
about grief. I,
3:08
Mom also brought in an article
3:10
from the BBC about just, therapy bots.
3:15
And, so, yeah, I'll give you a brief overview
3:19
and then we actually have not discussed it as a group, so I am looking forward to
3:24
just the conversation in general and just, you know, the way things are going.
3:29
But so yeah, the first one and I will
3:33
put some of these sources in the notes, so you got it.
3:36
it's in the November edition of The New Scientist.
3:39
It's called The Rise of Grief Tech, essentially.
3:44
there's another one also talk
3:46
the BBC character AI young people turning to A.I.
3:49
therapist bots.
3:51
And essentially what's happening is chat GPT, the like,
3:56
language models that we've heard a lot about
3:59
have been adapted to use for
4:01
both situations of therapy, I'm guessing CBT therapy.
4:07
And then,
4:10
just handling grief,
4:11
like when there's a death, maybe there's this grief A.I.
4:15
service that crafts an AI based on your dead relative,
4:20
so you can have one more conversation with them.
4:23
So a whole spectrum of like these types of
4:25
AI that are kind of coming through and existing.
4:28
So yeah.
4:31
And then your perspective on it maybe bring a little bit later.
4:35
Yeah, right.
4:36
I don't know.
4:36
Is that connection there or not?
4:42
You know, it's, it's almost like I think that GPT,
4:45
these things in general are just tools that are going to be adapted
4:48
in a wide variety of ways.
4:50
There's already bots that you chat with and it gives you back its answers.
4:56
So this is just yet another kind of thing.
4:58
But I did think it was interesting.
5:00
So maybe how about let's talk about grief,
5:04
AI and then kind of go into the,
5:08
the larger just kind of therapy part bots.
5:10
Does that sound good to you guys? Right.
5:14
so, the rise of grief tech is very interesting
5:18
because essentially what happens in this article is the author,
5:24
her mother passed away years ago, and so she found this service that creates A.I.
5:29
grief bots.
5:31
And so she talked to a couple of psychologists and stuff
5:34
and ended up talking to this therapist, I mean, to this A.I.
5:38
bot and,
5:42
essentially just her experience with it,
5:46
what that kind of brings.
5:48
So yeah.
5:49
As the actual therapists in the room, what do you think about creating
5:56
A.I. bots that are dead relatives?
5:59
Like, is there, is there some benefit to that?
6:02
Is there is it just kind of like false hope?
6:05
Are we just kind of like therapy rising to kind of like a sick solution?
6:08
I don't know. I'm going to hand it off to you. Let's see what you.
6:11
Yeah.
6:11
When I was reading the article, I was thinking it's perpetuating
6:16
the grieving process instead of helping it
6:19
because it's keeping that sense of
6:23
this.
6:24
Like, are we in reality or are we not in reality?
6:27
Like, part of the reality is acceptance of this relationship has to change.
6:33
One thing that I reflected on that is interesting and grief training
6:37
is that they have kind of moved from a model of
6:41
like the five stages of grief that people often hear about to.
6:46
We can actually maintain a relationship
6:49
with our loved ones who have passed, but it just changes.
6:53
So for instance, if someone wants to talk to
6:58
or have coffee and reflect on that relationship or drive
7:03
home from work and kind of have an out loud conversation and,
7:07
you know, talk to this loved one, it's not so much,
7:12
I don't think seen as the loved one can hear.
7:15
You are not or you're helping that person still be alive or something like that.
7:20
But there's a sense of in your heart that relationship has meaning and it matters.
7:26
And it can always matter.
7:28
It doesn't have to have a finality in the sense of that relationship has ended.
7:33
It's gone. You don't have it.
7:35
It's all loss, but it does acknowledge to the reality that
7:39
that love continues to live on.
7:42
And you anything from a standpoint of co regulation
7:47
of those moments of healing and connection that we talk about,
7:51
those are in us as part of our internal community.
7:55
So people that have encouraged us loved us, supported us.
7:58
It's not that
7:59
we're just impacted by trauma and negative things that have happened,
8:02
but we're also impacted by moments of connection, relationship,
8:06
encouragement and coaches, mentors, therapists,
8:11
loving moments of our lives
8:14
that that are constantly
8:18
fueling us and supporting us.
8:21
And so that can live on. We don't have to end that.
8:24
But perpetuating the idea of
8:26
like this, you know,
8:30
I want to say honky tonk like kind of
8:32
a sound sound bite or like a,
8:36
you know, this created
8:38
being that's really electronic and not real at all.
8:43
That's a little uncomfortable or disturbing to me.
8:47
Honestly.
8:48
I'm a little bit like the article talks about the idea of
8:52
are we keeping someone more stuck
8:56
because you start to mess with your
8:59
your mind basically of So wait, is the person really gone or not?
9:06
And then at the end
9:07
when she's like, yeah, those are not things my mom would say.
9:10
And she's like, I would, I would not want you to get it.
9:13
Yeah.
9:13
Like at the end of the article, she's like, I'd be okay to pass on that
9:17
because that's
9:19
it did give her some warm connection on some level, like brought some tears
9:23
and brought some memory, but it was like, yeah, that's not my mom.
9:28
Well, and it sounded more to that
9:31
to relate it back to what you were saying earlier,
9:33
you know, meeting with a friend to discuss her.
9:36
It's on that same plane of meeting with a friend to discuss
9:39
your deceased loved one and reminiscing in that way.
9:42
That kind of that felt like what she was experiencing,
9:46
talking to this bot that was supposed to be acting like her mom.
9:53
You know, it's really
9:53
interesting, this idea. Of.
9:56
Reality.
9:59
And you know, I'm
10:03
I'm firmly opposed to this idea of living outside of reality
10:08
because I don't know how any other way to live.
10:10
But for some people, I mean, this is the future.
10:13
This is something that people have dreamt of.
10:16
You know, we use like she says in the article we used to keep,
10:19
we have pictures.
10:20
People created shrines for their loved ones.
10:23
We we remember people
10:27
when they pass and many different ways.
10:30
And so it's it's so interesting
10:33
cause I feel like I'm of a generation that has a foot in both worlds,
10:38
like grew up without a lot of technology,
10:42
but also,
10:46
you know, towards
10:47
the end of college, technology started booming.
10:50
And I can see how on both
10:54
both sides, how this could be valuable to people.
10:57
But it also boggles my mind that it's healthy for anyone.
11:02
A little creepy.
11:03
You what can I say that that's a little.
11:06
I think I'm going to I'm going to pull out a little too
11:09
a couple of lines from the article that I think is interesting
11:12
because basically what they are saying that this A.I.
11:17
could potentially resolve is the early parts of grieving
11:20
where there's kind of a conflict of how
11:23
we're feeling versus the reality that's around us.
11:26
So the line I'm going to pull is
11:28
the brain goes to war with itself as two types of memory clash.
11:31
Semantic memory keeps track of general knowledge
11:34
about how things are, including the self in our relationship with others.
11:38
Whereas episodic memory captured specific events rooted in space of time
11:43
during grief, the semantic expectation that that relationship will continue
11:48
jars with the episodic memory of the person's death.
11:51
Death
11:53
by learning to reconcile
11:54
this conflict, we gradually adapt to our loss,
11:59
which I guess is a
12:02
by a psychologist.
12:04
SEELEY But
12:07
I just think that's interesting where
12:11
I'm not necessarily for or against it.
12:13
I can see both sides as well.
12:15
It does seem a little creepy.
12:16
And it's also fake, right? It's not real.
12:19
That's what kept coming back to me is just like, this is fake.
12:24
Like it's just unsettling that it's fake.
12:27
It's interesting.
12:28
You can both put it in.
12:29
I think you can put it into the camp that's like you go
12:32
and you pay a medium to go sit in the house.
12:35
And they're like, you know, in the walls.
12:38
And they're saying that they're talking
12:39
to their your loved one or whatever it might be on that same level as that.
12:44
I wonder, too, if it can be crafted in a way that is beneficial.
12:49
I think what was interesting is once she,
12:51
the author, ended up talking to the grief, it was encouraging her to like,
12:56
go talk to real people, to go have real experiences, to like,
13:02
like treasure the time, but keep moving on.
13:05
And so it's interesting, just
13:09
it almost conflicts with a profitable business model, one
13:12
that's trying to push people to go back into the world rather than just like,
13:15
no, keep talking to me.
13:16
It's almost like we're around forever, you know, almost like a medium word
13:21
or something like that.
13:22
But it's interesting because that you referenced
13:25
this like the sciences, because even that is a
13:30
an instance where you
13:31
you pick up and you go someplace you have I don't know if this is episodic,
13:35
but it's an instance of
13:39
a shared experience,
13:41
whereas with this chatbot it can get.
13:44
But it's yeah, I, you can take it with you wherever you are.
13:49
It's constantly there.
13:52
And I don't know, Julie, if you want to talk more
13:55
about the impact on not
14:01
resolving grief, like
14:02
is there, is there an issue with constantly being reminded or hoping
14:07
that your loved one hasn't passed because you can talk to them now on this?
14:12
AI Yeah.
14:14
In fact, there's a complicated bereavement diagnosis of that.
14:19
It goes it's so hard because there's no
14:22
real time limit that we can put on someone's grief.
14:25
They say six months to a year, you may be more resolved,
14:29
but it's unique to everybody.
14:30
So for some people, it doesn't feel resolved in that long of a period.
14:36
But I mean, diagnostically
14:39
they will say if it doesn't resolve
14:43
and it kind of stays in this complex bereavement
14:48
where essentially someone is stuck,
14:51
then that is considered more detrimental to them
14:54
because they can't go on living and thriving and flourishing.
14:59
Can that complex
15:01
almost a trauma, can that also feed in like be built into your brain?
15:06
Like can you be creating complex trauma in your brain
15:09
by not resolving the grief?
15:12
I think definitely it was talking about
15:14
that like rumination that we can do.
15:17
We stay almost in this like passive reading, ruminating
15:23
and this case, it's it's clearly in like an alternative reality.
15:28
It's not even just in the relationship itself.
15:31
It's also linking to something that isn't
15:34
actual or real.
15:37
And the article did talk about like
15:38
it could be used to avoid reality, which is concerning.
15:42
It said that it could be useful.
15:44
I was curious about I would love to hear more
15:48
on the sentence that was talking about.
15:50
It could be useful for abrupt endings to ease anger or regret,
15:56
I guess to like
15:59
have further conversation or talk about.
16:03
I do run into with some people who are going through
16:07
traumatic experiences or grieving that there's this longing
16:11
for a conversation or more interaction
16:16
that was abruptly cut short.
16:19
So I guess it's saying that
16:22
possibly there could be some benefit that whether it's like anger,
16:27
that there's something in the relationship that's unresolved or there's some regret
16:31
that's made between them, that there would be
16:35
a way to dialog further so it could have the closure
16:39
and in essence bring some relief
16:42
like we actually did have time to have more of a conversation.
16:46
But again, it's fake.
16:49
So it's like, well, I think the way we resolve things
16:53
when we can't resolve them, even if it's a family member or someone,
16:59
maybe it's not safe to be in relationship any with anymore.
17:03
Or maybe a person has passed away.
17:06
The place to do that
17:08
from my lens would be with your trauma therapist,
17:12
with someone who can help you work through and here and bear witness and hold
17:17
with you those unbearable emotions
17:20
so that they are more bearable.
17:25
There's just no replacement for the human heart.
17:28
Sure. Real connection.
17:30
Yeah. It's funny that I forgot.
17:32
They actually call it science.
17:33
I just kind of funny.
17:38
I do see, I think this is an interesting thing.
17:41
I also just the perpetual ity.
17:44
I'd be curious to expand this conversation into this therapy bot.
17:52
so this is the BBC article.
17:55
young people turning to a therapist bots essentially.
18:00
there is this, GPT
18:03
called psychologist where,
18:07
folks are able to talk with this therapist,
18:09
AI and it kind of gives them answers based on their questions.
18:15
I mean there's tons of these, but this article in particular,
18:19
follows that one.
18:23
and yeah, what I thought was interesting some takes from
18:27
this is that users, it's mostly ages
18:31
16 to 30 between that range.
18:35
it's also,
18:38
at night, it tends to be like after hours.
18:42
And then the last thing that I thought was interesting too
18:45
is that,
18:49
just the therapists
18:51
they talk to just, you know, pointed out
18:54
the need of this,
18:56
the desire for folks to talk to a therapist.
18:59
CBT is so great, it actually kind of points to a lack of mental
19:04
health support and learning systems within our current environment.
19:08
That is just our day to day.
19:10
But yeah, what do you think about this one, ma'am?
19:12
We're looking at this BBC article.
19:14
What do you think?
19:16
Well, I think it definitely does point to the need that people have
19:21
for seeking being heard or support or knowing they're not alone.
19:26
And so the article talked about the idea of text
19:30
being something that young people are really comfortable with.
19:34
So it kind of brings down a barrier of
19:39
what might be more
19:40
daunting to be in official counseling
19:44
or being on the phone or having a face to face conversation.
19:49
In some ways it could give some
19:52
maybe psychoeducation about either anxiety or depression
19:57
or coping skills or self-care or things like that.
20:01
But one of the quotes from the article is also saying it was quickly
20:07
making assumptions and giving advice, and that's not how a human would respond.
20:13
So again, there's that sense of on one hand, it's
20:17
meeting a little bit of a need, but there's also a deeper longing
20:20
of human interaction and connection that can't be fabricated.
20:25
I think that's interesting.
20:28
even that it makes assumptions.
20:30
That's almost what a GPT has to do.
20:33
Yeah, it's what it's programed for is.
20:35
Yeah.
20:36
Or trying to find those lines and just draw the dots.
20:39
So if you don't draw the line for it, then it's just going to invent that line
20:43
so it can process its own
20:46
sort of.
20:47
That is interesting.
20:49
I also wonder, you know, at what point do humans
20:53
realize that they're not interacting with another human?
20:56
Like if you threw a face on that who looks like me and talks like me,
21:00
Do you think if I were as the therapist bot said,
21:05
that sounds really hard, That sounds like a difficult experience.
21:08
Like, how did you get through it?
21:09
Yeah, I wonder how if that would be absorbed the same way as,
21:16
a human doing it
21:17
like somebody actually sitting they built a relationship with.
21:21
In that scenario.
21:23
I mean, does it need to be a human asking those questions?
21:25
Because it's all about reflection.
21:27
So if something's asking me that if a human
21:31
or a chat bot is asking me that question or a similar question,
21:37
I mean,
21:39
am do I need it to come from a human
21:42
in order to answer it or to reflect on it?
21:45
I can see that with like, you know, it would be similar to a journal prompt
21:49
or something like if something is helping you in that regard.
21:53
Like that's how I'm hearing at Sarah.
21:54
So you can come me if that's completely off, but it's like
21:57
if someone asks a good question that, that prompts you
22:01
to reflect and grow and learn and feel and all that kind of stuff,
22:05
then does it matter so much what the source is?
22:09
If it came from a book or an article or a typed in response
22:13
from a bot or from a human or what?
22:16
You know, like if you're having a meaningful connection to yourself
22:20
and to your reflection, then that in and of itself has some value
22:25
or worth to it.
22:27
I think what is scary on the sense of are
22:33
kind of we have
22:34
shifting states of consciousness that happen.
22:38
So this kind of
22:42
is similar to the idea of hypnosis that whenever your
22:46
your conscious awareness is coming down and you're able to access things
22:50
that are deeper unconscious, less layers, it's like you're shifting out
22:56
of being in the present into going inward or to these potentially deeper layers.
23:03
I don't know how deep these bots would actually go, so I'm not suggesting
23:07
that they're delving into your unconscious or anything like that,
23:11
but just the idea that someone is shifting to being less present
23:14
or more in that zone of not reality
23:18
like the article even says, every conversation starts with a warning
23:22
in red letters that says, Remember everything characters say is made up.
23:28
Yeah, because in essence,
23:29
you're putting your unconscious or these deep emotional places.
23:34
If you if you go there because like I'm saying, that could be just
23:37
psychoeducation about anxiety or care or whatever.
23:40
But if it would evoke a deeper question, suddenly your potentially vulnerable
23:45
or fragile psyche is in the hands of a computer program that can crash.
23:51
So that doesn't feel good to me.
23:53
Like ethically, to me, that feels dangerous.
23:56
Yeah.
23:57
Because someone could slide into
24:01
any kind of previous memory.
24:03
Your brain tries to keep you safe.
24:05
Who knows what kind of even potentially psychotic reaction
24:09
someone could have of, like, I'm alone, I'm in danger
24:11
or some kind of a fear response or something.
24:15
It just seems like it's pretty dangerous because there's there's ultimately no
24:20
professional on the other side of that conversation
24:23
that's monitoring the state or the
24:26
safety of the person typing.
24:31
So that would be a major red flag for me.
24:34
It also kind of reminds me, you know,
24:37
we spend so much time online and a lot of our communications happen
24:42
outside of person to person.
24:45
So you're I'm locking on to what you're saying.
24:49
Julie, about it,
24:50
that this this confusion that your brain's going to be experiencing.
24:53
Because I know at the other end of a text,
24:57
I mean, my friend is responding to me, but really,
25:02
I don't know that it could be anyone responding to me.
25:06
And so now that I'm if I start moving to some sort of I
25:11
you know, am I really blurring now the reality on more than one
25:16
facet, you know,
25:18
maybe that's a tangent that I need to explore on my own, but
25:21
it just it's so interesting, this desire we're seeing through
25:25
these articles for people to connect
25:28
virtually rather than personally.
25:32
It is interesting.
25:33
You know, it almost points to some relationship stuff,
25:37
you know, about trust or even knowing what's out there.
25:40
So I am going to take a slightly different stance and not even that we're even.
25:44
But I think that this is interesting and I almost think that
25:48
this should be expanded to other fields of medicine
25:51
and like law and different things where
25:54
basically a generalists chat
25:57
but that just gives you general stuff like it takes so long to even schedule
26:03
emergency appointments, let alone general practitioner appointments.
26:07
And like cost is so prohibitive for folks.
26:11
I wonder about a chat bot that was aware of its own limitations
26:15
and when to call in an expert,
26:17
but also could provide some basic stuff that we just don't have.
26:21
You know, something that I think is interesting is just like
26:25
whenever that psychologist was talking about,
26:28
hey, there's a need that isn't being met and we're just seeing that this chat bot
26:32
filled fills in that need, whether it's good or bad, is up to the,
26:37
you know, actual chat bot.
26:38
But just to say that there is a huge need and so how do we fill that need
26:42
or how do we help, you know, spread that word or try and create
26:46
a healthier environment?
26:50
I wonder even
26:52
just like the positive aspects of even
26:55
maybe to understand its own limitations, I wonder, See,
26:59
we're talking about this sort of stuff in 2024, but by 2030, who knows
27:04
where AI is going to look like in terms of understanding its own limitations.
27:09
Maybe some of those are they call them hallucinations,
27:14
kind of start to get resolved.
27:17
We might have a tool that
27:20
can reach folks who wouldn't
27:21
have access, you know, and how widespread phones are.
27:25
What I think is wild is going to Haiti or, you know, going to Haiti.
27:30
And every like a lot of folks having phones going to Europe.
27:34
And my phone still gets data connection and I could just connect anywhere.
27:39
It's just kind of wild things to me where it's such a widespread,
27:42
accessible thing right now, even though,
27:46
you know,
27:47
it's not necessarily good or bad, it's just kind of.
27:51
A couple things pop in my mind of
27:54
kind of the things we're already exposed to.
27:56
You know, any website that you go on
27:59
and this is your field a little bit, I imagine.
28:02
Samuel But just like everything pops up, like, how can I help you?
28:05
Thank you for visiting us today.
28:06
And like, there's someone, there's a chat box ready for you,
28:11
but how
28:12
many times if we call something and there's that many,
28:15
you press one for this, Press two for this, press three for this.
28:19
I there's this gut instinct in me that's like 000.
28:25
Like give me the human.
28:26
Like, I don't want to go through all of these, like, whoops.
28:32
And then another thought that pops in my head,
28:35
which I don't want this to prohibit anyone
28:38
from utilizing it, but the crisis hotlines that, you know,
28:43
they have 741741 and being able to text your crisis
28:49
that was made
28:51
and designed to reach more people, to help more people in crisis
28:55
and that one actually has a person on the other end
28:59
and using texting as a way for support.
29:02
But I have had clients tell me, like that was useless, that was not helpful. And
29:09
and maybe it is for the vast majority.
29:11
I have no idea.
29:12
It would be interesting to see the statistics on it
29:14
of how helpful it is or not, but I think there is just this deeper
29:18
longing for human connection that is always going to be there.
29:23
Like I can see what you're saying as far as maybe there is a time
29:26
to fill in the gap, almost to triage a little bit of the need,
29:30
because if we don't have enough mental health therapists
29:35
or we don't have support, and maybe if someone did have like a need for
29:40
help me with anxiety signs or help me with ways
29:44
to cope or something, that it could kind of
29:46
give some factual information that would be a support,
29:51
then maybe it does hold some potential for helping someone somewhere.
29:56
It's just such a fine line, I think, with talking about the vulnerability
30:02
of the human heart and needing support and needing a resonant,
30:09
empathic,
30:10
I think a bonny bad badenoch all the time of her,
30:13
like what's emerging in the moment between that right brain,
30:16
the right brain, Like we're missing all of that with any of this stuff.
30:21
I don't know how you would program that, put it that way.
30:23
Maybe that's mind boggling to me because there's something of warmth
30:27
and empathy that when you look at the bottom line that it's fake.
30:32
How is that ever
30:36
right brained?
30:38
So we talk about right brain to right brain.
30:40
Is there something with healing trauma within a dream or some sort of thing
30:44
where it's actually your brain almost communicating in a fake situation
30:48
or even like internally where almost it's a
30:52
it's not a real situation, even though it feels real.
30:58
But it's one of those almost simulated right brain
31:02
to right brain where your right brain is, because I think sometimes
31:07
are looking into the abyss and it just looks right back at you.
31:10
Whatever you put in, that's going to kind of just give right back to you.
31:13
You know, like a Google search.
31:18
There is like R.E.M.
31:19
Sleep that we have when we are dreaming, when we are.
31:23
I mean, so much restorative stuff is happening in our sleep,
31:27
in dream, in even imagination.
31:31
You know, you compare the fMRI eyes of someone who's an imagining something,
31:35
something even as we do attachment work, there can be kind of create
31:41
a security attachment and a healthy caregiver
31:45
and allow your nervous system to receive that and to take that in
31:51
and to have your needs get met where it can be transformative.
31:56
So, yes, and I think you can
31:57
even, you know, create a different outcome.
32:01
For instance, if you're having a nightmare, part of it
32:03
is go in and revisit it where there's something that rescues you,
32:09
something that saves the day, something that brings relief,
32:13
and that it can shift your nervous system and your experience of it.
32:16
So I can see where there's some validity in where you're going with that.
32:23
Again, I would prefer it in the hands
32:24
of a highly skilled trauma therapist than I would in be.
32:29
And there's standards for like licensing and education and stuff.
32:32
That isn't the case with I,
32:35
I just search as the internet and gives whatever the internet says.
32:38
So that's wrong.
32:40
I mean, I guess you could focus it in some ways,
32:42
but also in others.
32:45
How is it monitored
32:46
or or yeah, what's the accountability for it or things like that
32:50
or even the research on how effective or how much harm is caused?
32:56
Like we're not at that point of knowing those answers.
32:59
So there's definitely risk involved.
33:01
Well, folks, very interesting conversation here.
33:03
I'm sure.
33:04
You know, actually, to the listener, if you guys have any thoughts about A.I.,
33:08
please let us know, especially with
33:10
Alma, hesitate to say that because it seems like a fair question.
33:13
But feel free to you know, they respond
33:17
to emails that come
33:20
because, you know, no matter what, we'd like to start
33:22
that connection in general and.
33:25
Kind of a real people with real hearts, with real authenticity.
33:30
Right. And we're here to talk with.
33:31
When you email community roots pod, it will be a person on the other line.
33:36
So that's right. Yeah.
33:39
Before we do gratitude and stuff, I did want to shout out,
33:43
Steve Dodge for the theme song.
33:45
Alexandra Wells for the logo, Julie and Sarah
33:48
for being with me here today.
33:52
and yeah, check us out on iTunes,
33:54
Spotify, give us a good review, reach out to us via email.
33:58
Burma.
33:58
What's our, gratitude for this episode, folks?
34:03
I've got one.
34:05
I am so grateful for human connection
34:08
and it really,
34:12
I don't know.
34:13
I'm really, really grateful for human connection.
34:17
She doesn't want to expand.
34:19
I'm so glad that we've had a sharing conversation
34:22
so I can feel like, Whoa, I wonder what Sarah's referring to.
34:28
I. Just mean the health of connection where you can relate
34:33
and somebody hears you and understands you and it's valid and you're not alone
34:38
and I don't want that from the Internet or chat
34:43
because I want to know that somebody real has experienced what I'm experiencing.
34:48
Yeah, I'm piggybacking off of that.
34:49
It's like I am thankful for technology and advancement
34:53
because I still remember
34:57
there was a day that I was visiting my dad, his office,
35:00
and he's like, Now, if we if we write this and we hit return,
35:06
it's going to send to someone who's going to get it on the other line.
35:09
And my mind was blown.
35:11
I was just like, What?
35:13
And at that point it was just an email.
35:14
It wasn't even like a chat message or a text or anything like that.
35:20
I still remember my first person I text sent a text to.
35:24
It was like mind boggling.
35:26
And so it is pretty cool that people can create great things
35:30
that can help us and they can be used to facilitate more human connection.
35:36
I do appreciate like you, Sarah, that there's some human heart
35:39
on the other side and people that we are cultivating those relationships with.
35:44
Yeah, that is interesting.
35:45
But the thing about see, there's so many thoughts going on here.
35:47
I almost want to jump on the train.
35:49
I will say something that came to mind to me at the beginning of the episode
35:54
is I'm grateful for Mom's giddiness, I guess is just a notice
35:58
when you get a reference or you're ready to reference something.
36:02
But because it's so rare, we know that it's
36:05
such a treat when it happens, like, Yes, baby eight.
36:09
I love Bebe.
36:11
Yeah.
36:11
And speaking of human connections and memories and stuff, you know,
36:16
Dad and Mom were very good.
36:17
Every, every time a new Star Wars
36:19
film would come out, all of us would have tickets.
36:22
We'd show up to the movie theater together all in a row to watch Ray.
36:27
Memories. Go fight the bad guys. But anyway.
36:30
That's what we watched on New Year's Eve.
36:32
Really have to say it. The Force Awakens.
36:36
Good stuff.
36:36
And that's why probably Bebe Aid is rolling right through my mind because.
36:39
Yeah, there you go.
36:41
Remembering the movie.
36:43
I just assumed that you guys, this house, those movies were always playing.
36:46
Just.
36:47
And I don't think I've seen them in years, although I do love
36:51
how YouTube has the little clips that swing, But it's nice when you can get
36:56
a little clip and be like, reference this and then you can just see the visiting.
37:00
So now is Ted Lasso just playing on loop?
37:03
Andy Andy for Dad that.
37:06
Well, thanks so much for joining us everyone.
37:10
I hope you are having a good year
37:13
and yeah otherwise we will see you next week.