Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Daily Rhythms for Lent and Eastertide with Sally Breedlove and Willa Kane

Transcript

Daily Rhythms for Lent and Eastertide with Sally Breedlove and Willa Kane · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast with Amy Wicks, your wholehearted life and business coach.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: You should know this podcast will inspire you to grow in self-awareness, be passionate about your faith, and get clear on your calling.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you are new here, then welcome to the community of multi-passionate women who love to go deep on topics like faith, Enneagram, relationships, leadership, and community.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: This conversation might provide the step you need to make the change you desire.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get started.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friend, this conversation is a special episode to kick off the season of Lint.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you're not familiar with the rhythm or the season of Lint, don't worry.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is going to help explain that for you so you know what it is and what it even means.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're familiar with the rhythm of Lint and something that you observe, then I'm so excited to bring a very timely conversation with new friends to me, Sally Breedlove, and Willa Kane.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to tell you more about these amazing women.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: But as we step into Lint, I want to invite you into a conversation that's not about checking spiritual boxes, but a conversation that makes room for longing, grace, and the deep presence of God.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Lint can often be seen as a season of giving things up, but I want to ask you, what if it's about making space for something more?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: What if it's about living in the tension of waiting and longing for what's to come, yet rooted in the hope of resurrection?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: My guests today, Sally Breedlove and Willa Kane, are doing work in prayer and liturgy to help others find rhythms of grace in seasons of darkness and renewal and also in the ordinary days.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're going to talk about what it means to live as an eighth-day person, fully aware of our brokenness in the world, yet deeply anchored in the love of Christ.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I did a terrible job of introducing these women in our actual conversation and then making sure that you could distinguish their voices.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll have to listen along and just enjoy the wisdom that each one shares.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually you will catch the accents and the different intonations by the different women.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: But to let you know a little bit about our guest today, Willa Kane is a trustee of the American Anglican Council, and she's a founding member of Holy Trinity Anglican Church and New City Fellows in Raleigh, North Carolina.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she is a board member for the ministries of Anne Graham Lotts as well.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: She is a Bible teacher and a community volunteer.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she and her husband John have four married children and 12 grandchildren.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, so amazing, right?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then Sally Breedlove is the author of Choosing Rest and is also one of the authors of The Shame Exchange.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: She has co-founded Journey Mates and is the associate director of Sayla Anglican, a spiritual direction training program.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: She is the mother of five children and a grandmother to 16.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And she is so grateful for the life that she shares with her husband, Steve.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they're amazing women, just as I described to you here.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: But then also, you're going to love the profound wisdom and insights that they share throughout this conversation.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And also, just as a side note, I am sharing this conversation right before the big annual wholehearted abundance summit.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a free virtual online event to help you flourish in faith, family, and finances.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much good about it that I've created specifically for you.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I'm mentioning it right now is both Sally and Willa are contributing to that conversation on a special panel.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a behind-the-scenes Voxer panel conversation where we're diving deeply into creating rhythms of connection, even in seasons of busyness and in a time where you're maybe expanding and exploring ministry work or continuing to do work that is in line with your purpose.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, it's a beautiful and insightful Voxer conversation with not only Sally and Willa, but a couple of other amazing voices that I don't want you to miss.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are listening to this in real time, and not only is this conversation perfect to kick off your season of Lint, but it's also the perfect opportunity to remind you to get your free essentials pass for this summit.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're a little bit past the summit, don't worry.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's still a link in the show notes where you can find out more about how to hear that Foxer panel conversation among all the other amazing resources that are included for that summit.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And one last thing before we jump into this conversation, Willa and Sally both are familiar with Enneagram.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely need to have them back on to talk more Enneagram because we just smattered it in a little bit.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you will hear how their personality type influences how they approach prayer and even rhythms of Lent and other spiritual rhythms.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have been wondering how understanding your Enneagram type can actually help you experience transformation, well, I want to talk with you.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So again, check out the link in the show notes for a free clarity call where we together can partner for some breakthrough in your life, whether it's in the spiritual rhythms or in the season of Lent or just in general with your relationships.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's get right to this conversation with Sally Breedlove and Willa Kane.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just not, but a few days ago, I got these lovely books.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they really look beautiful.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: So well done.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: We are pleased with the way they've come out.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: We really are.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: And are excited about the kinds of feedback we're getting for people who really are using them.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm excited because I always like a new resource for Lent.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I admittedly, I don't think I've ever had a resource for Easter tide.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited for that edition, just as I've enjoyed the Epiphany prayers that I've been getting for through email.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and now I have them in book form.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll be using that.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_04: So glad.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we're we're flattered that you're um taking a look at what we've been working on.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Jana and I have gotten to know each other through the years uh because of my dear friend Sarah Higgerty.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: She's represented um through her book launches.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so we got connected way back in the day, and she's just been a gym.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And every once in a while, I'm like, I have a few spaces.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm thinking.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And she sends amazing women and other people like you.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_04: So well, that's great.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: We we are thrilled to be working with Janet and Pamela.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I interviewed them through, they were recommended through our publisher, and I called them and they had a conflict for the Advent book because they were doing um Every Moment Holy Advent book.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: And just because they're such, you know, virtuous women, they said they said, you know, we just we just can't do it to either one of you, but we love your work.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_04: So if you can ever figure out a way for us to work together, let us know.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I interviewed other people and just didn't have a great feeling about anybody else.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: Called them back and said, could you consider taking on volumes two and three?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then the whole series the following fall, whenever all three books are out.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what we came up with.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: So we're just thrilled that wonderful that we're able to work with them.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: They're terrific.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's wonderful.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Having that representation that is like-minded and light-hearted for your book babies, your work, it's precious stuff.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's important.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you definitely, yeah, not to be taken lightly.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, I have so many questions for you.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fascinated by just what you're doing, the ministry, the organization, the work.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very much uh a fan makes it seem trite.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know the right word, but I am a consumer lover of liturgy.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I did not, I was not raised that way.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have quite an eclectic background that will take eons to share.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I love the Rhythm of the Church calendar.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I so appreciate and value liturgy.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Every moment holy, in fact, has been a resource.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we had, I had Aunt Julie Pascal earlier this year, who's written prayers for feelings, liturgy for feelings, and expressing that.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's Lectio 365 app is something I recommend.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So this is part of the simply wholehearted culture.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of my DNA.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I, yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, you all have a lot of wisdom to share with me and with my friends.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to start off first before we continue talking about the beautiful books in the series.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear more about the history of observing Lent and Eastertide, how it ties into the church calendar.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: What do you need to share with us today as we in a couple days after this conversation goes live, we kick off another Lenten season?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: I I love story and I have a deep sense if we don't know what story we are in, we really don't know who we are.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, nobody wants to be flopped down in the middle of nowhere with not a clue what's going on.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: And um the amazing thing about uh the church through the centuries, it's given us a way to hear the story that God is telling uh about his love for the world he made, his grief at the way we broke it, and his plan all along to put it back together right.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: So in the church calendar, we're living through that year by year, which helps us then to know that's the big story.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: But what's my smaller story within that?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like finding, Willie uses the word rhythm a lot in terms of what we're doing.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's like finding the rhythm and being able to pick it up and join in.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I do, I do love that word rhythm.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_04: And that is, I think, one of the things about living in cadence with the liturgical calendar that has helped me so much in my life and growth as a follower of Christ.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you think about rhythm and music and how I think we internally we all have a sense of wanting to walk to the right beat, not not to be off.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_04: We when we feel off, it's just there's there's something pretty profound about it.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: When you think about the the way the world disciples us always in the wrong direction, it's always a cacopony of beats that don't necessarily go together right.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_04: But there's something about the liturgical year where you when you start with Advent and it's a slower pace, but it's a steady beat walking toward Christmas.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_04: And then you get to Christmas and it's it's a more exuberant sort of celebratory feeling.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: The pace picks up a little bit.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's exciting, almost like an orchestral work where you move from one movement to the next.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_04: And then when we move through that, then we get into days where we just walk out the steady beat of how we respond once we've experienced those things.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: Same thing with Lent and Easter tide and and then moving on toward Pentecost.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's the the slower pace, the looking inward, preparing ourselves.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh for Lent for me is is trying to empty myself of myself.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: So there's room for me to experience the risen Christ, you know, and and the great gift that that is, more than we could have ever asked or imagined.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I I just I do love those rhythms.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Willa, I I love how you both, Sally, articulated the the gift of that and even what rhythm can mean and what it it means in its truest sense of the word.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I love, Willa, that you shared there for a minute what Linton season has meant to you.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I want to toss that question back to you, Sally.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Either something that in history past for you where it was transformative, or it was a moment that you decided it's something you wanted to engage in because there's no demand here.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: You're not, you're still a Christian, whether you observe the church calendar, whether you observe Lent a certain way, all of these things, but it's an invitation.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so for you, when was that moment that you're like, there's something special here for me?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Amy.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that question.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: It takes me back to a childhood where this was not part of the way I was raised or raised to understand the faith.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so people who practice lit or people who gave up chocolate or wine, those are the only two categories.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, right, yes, fish on Fridays.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, oh fish on Fridays, yes, we'll add that in.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: So we have three things.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: And um we came into this liturgical way of understanding time and our faith and what it meant to worship uh late in life.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: My husband and I were in our 50s, and lent was one of those things I felt both some resistance to, like, what is this for?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I probably won't be very good at it.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I I love words, so I looked up the word lint, and the word we have is from a word that means to lengthen or to draw out, and in one sense, people assume, well, that's because the days are getting longer, you know, daylight is lengthening.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: But when I first read that, I thought, oh no, what's being drawn out is my sense of longing.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm aware that I have a longing, I'm aware that things are broken.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I hear this rightly Christmas didn't make everything okay.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it was the beginning of it being made okay.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: But this longing, this lengthening or stretching that Lent is when I began to practice it, and I would say I'm a um C plus student.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: I plenty of love it, that's great.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: She way up way underestimates herself.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure it it changed the joy of Easter.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that you are waiting for something, and maybe it's akin to uh waiting for a baby.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you if you found out today you were pregnant, tomorrow you had the baby, you would be either numb or overwhelmed.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: But this waiting, waiting for something so good is uh what Lynn is about.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it will have said we were talking about it recently, it clears this space out in me.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I thought these things I eat or this money I spend on these things or this hurried life I have, I thought it would fill me up and lent the time to reflect and go, it's not doing the job.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: I need something else.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I've associated the meaning of lengthening with Lint.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, obviously 40 days can feel long.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, so there's that.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I would share, I personally have been resistant because I've been in some church cultures where fasting felt pressured, mandated, uh, you know, do you get an A plus on it, or as you alluded to, is C minus, or do you just fail it totally?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so anyway, as I've grown in understanding of both Advent and Lent, I think you're right.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: It it helps us savor.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: It helps us desire.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I know years ago, probably one of the first years of the podcast, Barbara Rainey came on and talked about the beauty of celebrating and preparing your home for Easter and doing these fun, exciting things.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that tied with how we can expand our longing, it's the both and it's the both creating space by maybe not doing something, but it's also participating in the anticipation and what builds that anticipation for this incredible day of Easter, which is the whole anchor of our faith, which we sometimes just kind of gloss over as eh, it doesn't get as much hype as everything else, maybe.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: That's exactly right.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: Sally said mentioned the other day that she said we've all either are or have been lit failures.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: So when you when you talk, Amy, about assigning a grade to it, we all can relate to that so completely.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, for sure, for sure.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think what I love about the resource itself, it's it's not really telling you it has to look one way or another.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's inviting you to the process, to the rhythm to follow along in prayer and not checking off each day, well, did you cheat and have some chocolate or whatever it is?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that about what you're offering here.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank you.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I think what has anchored the book to talk specifically about it, Amy, for us, is this realization that what we need so badly is for God to talk to us, which is scripture, and then to listen deeply enough to what he's saying that we find words to take back to him, which we call prayer.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: So those two things we we both can wonder how do I do them?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm struggling with them.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: But the the scriptures are there, they're given, and they're often received best in smaller pieces, like the way we eat our food, you're better off eating a little bit all day, so to speak, than one meal at night.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a sense that we've been given this amazingly beautiful word.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then God God says to us, When I say these things to you, what is it that speak back to me?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me what you want to tell me.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: But that the way we do that does change through the year.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: What we hear God saying and then what we want to offer back to Him.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the gift of written prayer is it just helps ground us.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that you can't spontaneously offer a prayer as it comes to you or use your own words.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like having a correct language or a certain form to approach God, but it I think in a lot of the conversations about liturgy, it's a it's offering some language and words around maybe what you're feeling or wanting to express or how you're wanting to seek God and find Him ultimately.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Amy, you referenced Lectio earlier in the conversation, and Sally has helped start a wonderful ministry in our region that it's based on contemplative prayer.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_04: That really is kind of the heartbeat of what we've done in these books.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: We start with a passage of scripture, and we call what we're doing scripture-soaked prayer.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_04: We want people to really soak in that passage of scripture, to wait until God says to them, This is what I'm telling you, whether it's a a verse or two, whether it's a word or two, whatever it might be, and then to offer that back to God.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so the way a number of us have practiced this started back in COVID with an online prayer initiative that we we were doing that that led into the publication of these books.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: And we would, you know, read the passage of scripture.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: My husband and I actually did it together.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: And then we would individually ask the Lord, what are you saying to me about this?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then we would pray back and forth into whatever that was for ourselves, for our world, for people we cared about, for situations.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: And after we had, you know, gone through that process and felt like we were the Lord was finished talking to us right then, and and we had said all we wanted to say back to him, then we moved on to the closing prayer at the end, which are ones that are drawn either from the Anglican Church in North America, Book of Common Prayer, or from beautiful prayers from church history, you know, St.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_04: Augustine and all sorts of other beautiful prayers, a lot of the Puritans.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_04: So that's that's really kind of the cadence of it.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: And we have we found it to be a rich and satisfying way to approach the Lord.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I I love that you have added those elements, Book of Common Prayer and other maybe known, slightly known before prayers, because like the book of common prayer is kind of hefty.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so to have it broken down a little bit more digestible for the common person, I the irony of the name, it doesn't feel common.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um I love that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: But Willie, you kind of hinted at maybe the start of some of this.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to hear more about what does eighth day prayers mean?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because this isn't just a book or book series or, you know, we're having a conversation timed well for the Linton season, but I want to know more about eighth day prayers.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like to live in the eighth day and and the history of that?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of questions.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So Sally or Will, I don't know who wanna take, who wants to take a stab at it first, but go for it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: I'll jump in just to tell you the quick history and then let Sally talk about the meaning of Eighth Day because it is a rich centuries-old church practice.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: In March of 2020, the the right in the middle of the month, the where you remember where you were, it was the month everything shut down with COVID.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I had a text from a friend here in Raleigh who said, What would you think about gathering friends and family or getting friends and family?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_04: We couldn't gather to pray at eight o'clock every day about whatever this thing is that we're experiencing.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: And if I I you know, I'm I'm an Enneagram too.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know that we're going to talk about any of those things today, Amy, but I love to gather ideas.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, this is this is my heartbeat.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so I I thought this is a great idea.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: I'd scratch it a message and hit send to several friends in different spheres of ministry, people who had a reach into groups of people that I thought might respond well to this idea.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: Well, immediately heard back from Sally who said, I'll write content.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_04: And another guy who's a dear friend who runs a Christian study center at UNC Chapel Hill, a guy named Madison Perry, who said, much younger than we are, and he said, I'll build a website.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_04: Well, this was real good news because this girl and that girl were not going to build a website.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: Within 24 hours, we had our first posting of a passage of scripture as we described a meditation that Sally had written and an invitation to prayer.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_04: And we started sharing it.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: Within three weeks, almost 15,000 people around the world had committed to pray for eight minutes at eight o'clock in their time zone.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_04: And Amy, what was happening that was so exciting was at a time when the world was dark, felt very dark, where we felt isolated.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_04: It was as if pinprick lights of the gospel were penetrating that darkness all around the globe.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_04: So that's how we got started.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_04: And then over time became convicted that we wanted books we could hold in our hands.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll let Sally pick up there.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, thanks, Silla.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm a four, so I have lots of feelings.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, love those feelings.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: I have feelings to share.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: So when COVID started, I was aware of so much of what is this about?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: How will we get through it?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: How terrible will it be?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: What will it be like to be all alone in our homes?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: Will it ever go back to normal?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that deep fear, who might I lose?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: Who if this is a serious?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: So there's so much going on.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: And since I was 20, which was a long time ago, the only place I've known to turn is day by day to read something in scripture.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I've every different sort of methodology in the world, I've you know tried different kinds of studies, but underneath all that was just an awareness that in scripture are the words of life.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had begun for maybe a week before Willa wrote to go, I just need something every day, something small.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: So when she had this idea of praying, I said, we need more than our words that we pray.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: We need God to settle us in His in a word from Him before we begin to pray.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, we could just spiral into our prayers in ways that that don't take us back to God.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: So we began to do that.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it just went on and on till for what maybe 400 and something days.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: We just kept writing and doing it.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: People kept opening up the emails.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: We were keeping up with our whatever you call that, how many people open your emails?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you probably not enough.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: Just oh, people people want to hear from God and they want common words to pray.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: And uh then the idea of turning it into a book, making it more permanent came up.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: So then we began to wonder, sort of past COVID, what was it we were doing?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Did it have an organizing theme?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: And during that time, that right at that end of that first year of COVID, we had a little granddaughter that died.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: She had never left the hospital, lived 88 days, uh, died on the 28th of December.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: And she was she, oh, I I still miss her.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Look at her, look at her pictures in my house every day and just say, B, you would understand.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you would understand.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: And our daughter was was doing the hard work of being a grieving mama and processing it.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: But she wrote a little post about uh be had lived 88 days and died on December 28th, and that in that number eight was a clue uh from God to help us.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: So then she went on to talk about how the church through the centuries had understood that uh the eighth day was the resurrection day.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was language they used.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, eighth-day living means we've done a regular week in the first creation, and we get back to Sunday, and oh my goodness, Jesus has conquered death.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: He swallowed it up.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so to be a Christian, whether you have this terminology or not, is to be an eighth-day person.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: You're living in the new creation in a world that will be remade, yes, but will never end entirely.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: And we thought, that's what we're trying to say, that no matter what's going on around us, we're eight-state people.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, little did we know how much the church had understood this.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the a woman named Alicia Yates, who uh did the covers for our books and did amazing editorial work, her daughter is a um a wonderful artist, and they began to research all the ways that eight were, or some of the ways that eight um that number was used in church history.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so there are eight-sided windows in a lot of the older cathedrals.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there was eight-sided churches.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: There was the understanding that this number, if we listened, would uh point us back to resurrection.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: So we thought, well, that's that's what we're trying to do is talk about the gift of um the life lived um in the resurrection of Jesus.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man, that is it's it's really exploded our minds and our hearts and our souls in ways that Lord, you know, the more you look, the more you see in what He's given us.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_04: There's just you you you never I think as long as we live on this earth, we'll never get to the bottom of it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it's it's so exciting.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then I as I think about what it means to me to live in the egg day now, it's things like my default mode is joy and hope because I trust that God's got it, that He's that He's He is good, He's writing a good story, and He's gonna ultimately leave me home.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's what Jesus accomplished.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_04: It allows me to receive the challenges and the disappointments I face as instruments in his hands to refine me, to make me more like Christ.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I'll be ready for that eternal home.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_04: It it gives me a feeling that I'm free.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm free from guilt and shame because Jesus has paid the price for my sin.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I, you know, I I can I can drop those things, no more striving.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_04: I was a, you know, uh a to, a pleaser.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_04: I felt like there were so many things I need to do to help myself and other people along.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I can those are no longer heavy burdens because I know Christ has done those things for me.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: Now I can just live in the freedom of it.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: I can see that God's new creation, if I pay attention, and I've just been I'm sitting inside a room in my house looking out.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's a dreary sort of day.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's been a little bit rainy, and I've there's a tree, a bear tree right outside my window.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: And the raindrops are like little droplets all over the branches.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_04: They look like jewels.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: Well, to me, I mean, it's just a glory moment.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_04: If you pay attention to those little things, I think that's where God starts to show you the new creation, the beauty that He has for us now and and in perfection to come.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I guess the biggest idea for me is that the eighth day, what it says is it's the reality that God is with us.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: He's with us in this exile we're living in.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think more and more in this world is broken.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: It's you know, we're like exiles, but he's with us.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_04: And and that's what he accomplished on the eighth day with the resurrection of Christ.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_04: The veil that was torn on earth at the moment Jesus died meant the veil has been torn in heaven, is open for us.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought those are the things that just give my heart peace and joy and and delight really to think about living as an eighth-day person.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I I had no idea.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: One, so much rich meaning in the personal story, Sally, of just that loss and that heartache.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: But then to have this kind of an additional partnership with your daughter and her grieving process to discover what this number means.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm even thinking about the shape, right?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: If because you turn it to the side, there's it's an affinity symbol and essence, right?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: So and I'm thinking about the groundedness of like the round shape at the bottom, right?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Grounding ourselves in Christ and yet it goes upward.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm having fun.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna ponder and I think I'm gonna really listen to some of this because I'm just like, wow, I I love the number seven, but I don't think I tend to think past the number three, seven, and forty when it comes to biblical things.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So now I'm like eight.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm liking this.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: And and it really is sort of like a hidden treasure, you know, we're not it's not one we're looking for, but I love what you said, even about the shape.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, you know, grounded but hands lifted up in praise.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: But it also is a picture that everything can be taken away, everything, except for the reality of the triune God and his amazing love for us, and to be reminded of that.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: So a phrase we sort of share between ourselves and Madison, one of the writers, and Alicia Yates is who's our editor and creative genius is we want to be eighth-day people.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we we want to live grounded in that reality.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm an eighth-day person.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's the and we just think about even that.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we live in a culture that wants to be a Saturday person.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: That forward thinking of just the everyday reminder of this is not our home.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Our hope is truly in eternity and with him.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I I do admit that as I've gotten quote unquote older, those these mid-40 years are really teaching me to look at those days with hope that as a child I I didn't understand, or even in my 20s, when you think you're invincible and life is only upward and forward and to the right.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you hit this spine, you're like, oh yeah.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, life here in this time between Edens is incredibly hard.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we need our hope anchored securely in him and him alone.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_04: So man.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: But as an encouragement, I mean, we have the big hope about what we know is coming, but as an encouragement, we get the the these little glimpses of glory, like the the the jewelry on the tree outside my window.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's a wonderful way to live, I think, focused on where we're going, but but not oblivious to what we've got right here and how we can make a difference here as well, how we can participate in God's in-breaking in good ways, which we hope is part of what this series of books has done.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you ladies are both embodying what it does look like to continue to make an impact and to be led of the spirit and to go forward with, you know, just faith, really.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is not probably where you envisioned that step of faith or that idea to evolve or become.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a matter of obedience.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: So as we wrap up already, which I can't believe how quickly our time has gone, but I I've loved that we've sprinkled in conversations what does the book look like and the beauty of it.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And for those who can't see the picture of it, they're they're beautiful, they're lovely works of art.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm curious for you to share what are you learning new about prayer?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Even though you've written a couple volumes on it, there's always more to discover.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'll tell I'll tell you something really fresh.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: I've learned just in the last week.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_04: I uh this is not entirely new, but I had an uh an illustration of it in my life.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_04: God's word is always up to the challenges we face, every single time.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_04: More than having the right answers in scripture, though, he shows us even what the questions are we should be asking.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_04: I was having a particularly hard day last week and opened up my eight-day prayer devotional for during the epiphany reading at that point.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_04: And as I opened it and looked at the passage, I realized that the meditation was one I had written.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, wow.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_04: And and so I sucked in the scripture and asked God to speak to me.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: And he started to speak, and then I read the meditation, and it was as if he was using my own words to speak to me in a way that I needed to hear.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: And it was not necessarily where my heart was when I wrote it, but it was where I needed it to be when I read it, you know, these two, three, four years later.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, his and it's because his word is alive, you know, it's it always has for us.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's always up to the challenge.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I would say that's probably what I'm learning the most.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I love it.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's almost akin to going to your journals and realizing a couple years ago, maybe a couple months ago, at least for me anyway, I'm like, oh, yeah, I wrote that revelation down, that answer to prayer or that prayer and and that scripture, and it's speaking to me right now in this moment.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_04: So exactly.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: That is really special.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it is.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right, how about you, Sally?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think as a person who can get bogged down in my overthinking and overfeeling everything, what I've realized through this process more deeply than I ever had is that the only door out is prayer.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I can't think my way out of my sadness.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: I could make a gratitude list, and I do.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: I can get up and go do something for somebody else.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: I can get a job done in my house, I can get in my car, go for a walk, but I need more than that.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I need this sense that God and I are in conversation.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: And the way what writing the this book together with friends has done for me has given me, first of all, a sense that, oh, we don't all talk to God just alike.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um I can feel the different voices in the book, maybe in ways that other people can't.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I realize there's so many ways to pray as individuals.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: We respond to what he's given us.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: But but then the second thing is there's also so many ways for one person to pray.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: I can pray lamenting and in anguish, I can pray in joy, I can pray in thanksgiving, I can pray in just contentment for God's near presence.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I have lost, this is a lovely thing to say, I've lost my sense of guilt that I'm not a good prayer.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: That is fantastic.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, lose that guilt.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's so, what was my standard?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't even know what my standard was, but I have begun to realize it's this ongoing conversation, and that's what God wants.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, he has some people on their knees for four hours a day, and I'm so thankful for them.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: And well, and I have a mutual friend, I want her to pray about everything.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't have to be just like her, right?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I can respond to God in ways he gives me to respond to him, and at the same time, rejoice in other people that I'm glad they are who they are.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so that that dawned on me in this process.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you can be the kind of prayer God shapes you to be as you keep listening, Sally.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sally, I do love how you outlined probably four or five growth tips for an Enneagram for, and then the overarching upstream practice is just prayer.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: That at the end of the day, we can do all the soul care and all those steps, but prayer is the thing.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: Prayer is the thing.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:35
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to keep talking to you both.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of have a sense that as my friends are listening, they're a little bit sad that this conversation is over because it went by too quick and it was so good.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just think that you all have wisdom to impart and insight to share.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to thank you for what you're doing and faithfulness to the Lord and faithfulness to the ministry and with these works.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll just continue to partner as a sister in prayer to who believes in the gift of prayer and the beauty of the liturgy, that um, this will continue to go far and wide and have ripple effect that you'll get to know in the new heaven and new earth.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: We and we, you know, this is one of we've been talking about Lent and Eastertide the most, but this is a three-book liturgical series.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_04: So we hope people will follow along through the entire year and experience the joy of the rhythm he offers us.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: I believe they will.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much to both of you.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: Wonderful time.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Friend, I hope that you walk away from this conversation, reminded that Lint isn't about perfection or performing certain spiritual duties, but it's about allowing space for longing, making space for God's presence and how He meets you in the tension of waiting and trusting and leaning on the promise that resurrection is to come for you and for me.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if this conversation and episode resonated with you, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend who needs this reminder during this Linton season.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, if you have been struggling with how to engage with the Lord and in spiritual rhythms, book that free clarity call.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget, Sally and Willa are also part of the wholehearted abundance summit happening this week.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: So check out the show notes for all the details of how you can hear more wisdom from the both of them.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Friend, remember, we're all broken, we're all blowing it, but the brave one does something about it.