Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Cynthia Kaye McWilliams Talks 'Average Joe' Season 2, 'Messy Love,' CynCity Productions, Navigating Today's Media Landscape + More

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INTERVIEW: Cynthia Kaye McWilliams Talks 'Average Joe' Season 2, 'Messy Love,' CynCity Productions, Navigating Today's Media Landscape + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hold up.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Every day I wake up.
• 0:03
  Speaker 3: Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. Y'all finished or
• 0:05
  Speaker 3: y'all done? Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show,
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: The Breakfast Club.
• 0:09
  Speaker 4: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Lauren LaRosa is
• 0:12
  Speaker 4: here as well.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: And we got a special guest in the building. Yes,
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: we do. From Average Joe, Cynthia K. McWilliams is here.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: Good morning.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Good morning.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Very good to be here. I'm wonderful. Blessed and highly favored.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: So glad to be here. Blessed, black and highly favored.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Yes. Black and highly favored.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Ain't that right?
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: Hey, beautiful.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Lightly melanated, but hella black.
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you. Who is Cynthia K. McWilliams for those who
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: don't know?
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: First and foremost, I'm a storyteller more than anything. I'm
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: an artist. I am right now the comedic actress who
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: plays on Average Joe opposite of the incredible Dion Cole.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: My amazing partner Malcolm Barrett who plays my husband on
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: the show. And also Michael Trucco and an incredible group
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: of people that I think have made some really dynamic
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: television that's streaming on Paramount Plus right now. I'm also
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: an executive producer and the creator of.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Messy Lola.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, of Messy Lola. Yes.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: You've been working for a long time. I feel like
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: you've been at least a couple of decades.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Indeed. Yeah.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Don't tell them all my... Why you got to say
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: a couple of decades? Yeah, I know.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Prison break.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Real Husbands of Hollywood. Yeah.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: What else?
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Nashville, Bosch, the last days of Ptolemy Gray. Yeah, man,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: it's been a lot of things. And I feel like,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: you know, that is, it's tough, you know, because you'd
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: be in the industry for a good couple of decades.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: But people can still very much not know who you are,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: you know, because really it's so much going on. I mean,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: when I was coming up, we really did have like,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: you know, your main networks that people watch. Now it's
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: all of the TV networks have kind of disappeared and
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: streaming has taken over. But there's just so much going on,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: it's hard to really even shoot as a viewer. I
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: can't keep up with all the shows that I love.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: And so I just know that what I really try
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: to remember is that, look, it's a lot of people
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: who still aren't going to know me. I'm definitely this
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: kind of famous. I'm like, hey, you that girl from
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: the show.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: That's what I am.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: It's this.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: It's always this.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: No, don't tell me.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Don't tell me.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Don't tell me.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Don't tell me.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: It's this. And you really don't tell them and then
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: they still trying to... And you'll be staring at them like, no, please,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I want you to figure it out. No, I know that.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And I think that the thing is, is because I
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: do this because I'm a storyteller and not because my
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: goal was ever to be famous. That's a-okay with me.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Like if I spend the rest of my career without
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: being like household name famous... I might not be somebody
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: that as soon as you say Cynthia K. McWilliams, you
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: know who that is. But I know that if you've
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: watched the things that I've done or if you've been
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: in the room with me, that I've made an impact.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: And so I really that's really who I am is
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: somebody who wants to leave rooms better than they found them.
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  Speaker 4: But you definitely had a successful career.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: So thank you.
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: So what's the difference between having a successful career and
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: I guess actually becoming a quote unquote star?
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  Speaker 2: Honestly, I think being a star has nothing to do
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: with success unless that's how you define success. But to me,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: having a successful career It's about first and foremost, just
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: having the audacity to do it. You know, like really
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: like every one of us at one point were kids
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: thinking about doing things that seemed unimaginable. Like that's it.
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  Speaker 2: Like at the end of the day, I look around
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: the room and I'm like, these are people that I
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: have watched become who they are to the rest of America.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: But you were always who you were, you know? And
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: so I think what's so dope about being successful in
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  Speaker 2: a career like this is just the audacity to dream it.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: And then the consistency and commitment and discipline to yourself
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  Speaker 2: to keep living it out. That's success. And then for
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: anybody along the way who sees it, who recognize it,
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  Speaker 2: who's touched by it, who's inspired by it, that's the
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: real success. I think all the time about people who
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I grew up with in Kansas City or people that
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: really never thought they could just because I'm doing it.
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  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Again, star or not. Because
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  Speaker 2: I'm doing it, it gives them the permission and the
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: belief that they can too, you know? Have you always
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: had that attitude about your success and where you are now?
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  Speaker 2: Because like real storytellers, you're like, people need to get this.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And sometimes when people don't get it, it's like, I
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: know you're sensitive about your art. So has that always
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: been your mantra? I guess, yeah, definitely. I've definitely always
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: been that way because, again, if it's about the story,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: if that's really what matters, and there's so many different ones, right?
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  Speaker 2: I also am from the theater. So, you know, that's
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: one audience at a time, right? Like, it's a very
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: different world. Like, in the theater, you're literally, it's so present.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: It demands you to just be there, and the only
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: goal that night is literally to just be present, be honest,
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  Speaker 2: moment to moment, line to line, I'm there. I'm just here.
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  Speaker 2: I can't do anything about how the audience is going
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: to receive it at the end of the show. I
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: can't do anything about what the reviews are going to say. Like,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: that is the world that I really was trained in.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: And that's about literally just in every moment, I need
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: to be listening. I need to be open. I need
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: to be able to be ready for whatever the next
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: moment is. So I guess that's really how I just
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: still perform, period. Whether there's a camera around or not,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I'm very much like.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I am interested in the truth of this moment and
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: living the most, whatever that thing demands of me as
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: an actor, living the most joy or the most authenticity,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: the most pain, whatever, in a true moment. Like, that's
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  Speaker 2: really it. And if I'm, I don't know, I just
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: feel like, yeah, that for me is the best thing
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: about being an actor. I think so many people now
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: think of being an actor as being a star. But
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: for me, the best thing about being an actor is
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: that it is the art itself. of understanding yourself and
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: humanity at the same time.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: But your inspiration comes from your theater, right, DePaul?
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, DePaul University.
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  Speaker 1: So you're a theater kid, you grew up reading all
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: these books.
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  Speaker 2: I sure did.
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  Speaker 1: Grabbing all these images.
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  Speaker 2: I literally was a librarian.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a different.
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  Speaker 2: Type of motivation.
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  Speaker 3: I wouldn't say a librarian.
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  Speaker 2: I worked in the library. Like I had some sort
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: of degree in it. No, I worked in a library
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: when I was young. And I literally did. I worked
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  Speaker 2: in the library. I stacked books, you know? So I
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: know like the Dewey Decimal System. Like I was in
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: the 811.5, 812 that was like poetry and prose and theater.
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  Speaker 2: And I was in there reading plays. Like literally what
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  Speaker 2: you just said, I was reading those books. Do you
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  Speaker 2: think that the motivations now, like how some people are
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: motivated by like social media and having following or whatever,
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  Speaker 2: does that change the way that the artwork is looked
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: at or talked about? Oh, of course. I mean, you know,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: everything is changing. I mean, this is just a drastically
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: changing media landscape every day. So, of course, it changes things.
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  Speaker 2: social media didn't exist when I was entering into this industry.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: And I think about all of the women before me,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: you know, they're, um, you know, the great Cicely Tyson,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: like you think about what motivated people before there's always
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: been the motivation to tell the stories. But of course,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: what now is the incentive is, um, recognition and money, right?
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  Speaker 2: Those are, those are now the things I think that
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: draw people to the field more is they want to feel, um, yeah, acknowledged. Uh, but,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: In a way, right, I still think about that as, yes,
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  Speaker 2: we want the likes, we want the money, but really
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: that all still ties to, right.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Don't it?
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: That what you want is to be seen. So it's
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: still the same thing. I think every storyteller was still
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: trying to make sure that unseen people are seen, you know?
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  Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting what you said about social media,
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: because I think about all.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: Of those women that you named, right?
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  Speaker 4: Like everybody that, really just any woman that came before
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  Speaker 4: social media. I feel like just human beings were able to,
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: to grow and evolve and become who they really are
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  Speaker 4: destined to be prior to having all of these.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Strangers opinions about them.
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: Like they didn't have all of these people telling them
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: who they are supposed to be. They were just able
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: to figure it out on their own.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: And maybe be able to figure it out on your
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: own opposite of people that mattered, right? The people that really,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: that you had to judge. I remember my mom and dad,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I'm very close with them, and they would always say
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: to me, my dad, when I would leave the house
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: or go out and do something, he would be like,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: if you don't want it on the front page of
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: your local paper, Don't do it. Like that was like a,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: you know, like just the idea was that what you're
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: living for is that you don't want your parents to
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: be disappointed. You don't want your family to be disappointed. Like,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: and you want to make them proud, right? So it's
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: the fear of like, I don't want to disappoint my parents.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I don't want to disappoint my family, but also I
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: want to make these people proud. That's who used to
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: matter to you because the world, I think about this
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: a lot too. This is praise aside, this is a
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: side venture, but you know, the idea that now I
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: think we all feel like we have to be super
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: wealthy or super successful, but Going back, like, I don't know,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: let's say 40s, 50s, right? Because we didn't have an
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: awareness of the world, your comparison was really like your.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Neighbor, right?
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: So, like, coming up, if it was, like, coming up
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: was literally like, oh, shoot, you looked over and, like,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: they might have got a new car in their driveway.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Or someone had a tire swing out front, right? And
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: it was like, oh, so now the kids were like, well,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: they have a tire swing. Why don't I have a
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: tire swing?
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: You could nip that in the bud right away and
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: just be like, why are you worried about having a
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: tire swing? Just go knock on Billy's door and go
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: play on that tire swing because you knew your neighbors
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: and because that was really about it. So unless the
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: entire neighborhood suddenly had a new car and a new
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: tire swing, you didn't think about it. It wasn't bombarding
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: you in the same way. But now what's crazy is
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: the expectation, and this is what's insane to me, is
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: that most of America, and we know this, we know
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: this to be true because of the nation we really
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: live in, Most of America is getting by, like barely
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: getting by. We are a fortunate group of people who
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: are just like living in what is most would consider wealth.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: We are a fortunate group of people doing that. Most
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: people do not have $ 1, 500 saved up to be able
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: to cover an emergency, right? And yet those people are really,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: instead of thinking about how to cover that emergency, instead
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: of thinking about groceries, instead of thinking about things, that
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: really matter, right? They're having to deal with also somehow
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: being on feeds all day that's telling them that they
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: should have their face done like you got done, right?
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: And that they should be able to be blinged out
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: like you blinged out. And that they should be able
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: to have books and successes like you have, which is,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: we should be dreaming that.
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: But it's also okay to understand the gap that, like, yo,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: everybody should not be expected to live this way.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: I love how you looked at me and couldn't pick
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: nothing physical, nothing superficial.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Just like them people. Also, you know, I don't really
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: like to flirt with married men like that. I don't
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: play them games. You know, I like to keep it real.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: It ain't nothing like that.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: No, it's nothing to flirt with. See, now, she had
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: to go to the cut.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Did you see when he got $ 200 million?
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Listen, let me tell you something, Cynthia.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: What?
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: That's not true.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: That's a big gap right there. He did an article.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: He was actually on the, was it Forbes?
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Propaganda. Listen.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Wait, what happened?
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I'm about to close my mouth.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: You got a lot of money.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: He is doing it for the creators in the space.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: You once said.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: They saw that.
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: You once said one of your proudest experiences was an
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: NBC pilot that didn't even get picked up.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: I want to know about that. Yeah.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: I saw you say you learned what you were capable
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: of doing under pressure.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Yes. That pilot was called Love is a Four Letter Word.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: It was written and developed by Diana Son, who's also
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: an incredible playwright. I love working with playwrights. Yes, it
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: was for NBC. George Tillman Jr. was the director. That's
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: what I mean. That wasn't a loss. I still know
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: George Tillman Jr. I got an opportunity to work with
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: George Tillman Jr. I think of all of the actors
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: that was on that show with me, I can't even
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: list all of them, but they're all amazing. All of
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: us have gone on to keep working. Most of us
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: still keep in touch. Those are like blessings that came
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: out of that. But yes, I think I say that
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: it was one of the things I was most proud
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: of because unfortunately there was industry things. We did a
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: table read. Something didn't work out. They felt like the
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: actress who was the lead, just things didn't work out
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: and they had to replace her. and they came to
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: me and asked me to sort of step up into
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: this position, which is, it's difficult for two reasons. One,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: because that's an enormous amount of work to take on
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: in a very short amount of time, learning a whole new,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: you've read the script like crazy, but also now there's
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: a whole new focus. But more importantly, I didn't know
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: the woman, thank God, honestly, because I didn't know her
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: that well. If she was my friend, I would have been,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: you know, it would have been real hard. I'd be like, oh, girl.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: But because I didn't know her, I knew it was
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: just a professional thing. But I still felt like I
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: had to call her. I called down to the hotel
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: room and I let her know that they were, you know,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: giving me this opportunity. And I mean, I was going
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: to take it. but I just wanna do it. It
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: wasn't like I was gonna be like, girl, if you
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: don't want me to, I want, this is, you know,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: we're all working for these things. And honestly, I know
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: she would've wanted me to, you know, because we want
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: that for each other. I think most of the women
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: in this industry, particularly black women, we are rooting for
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: each other in every possible way. But I did wanna
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: call her and say like, just, yo, this is happening.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: And I just want you to know, I really do
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: feel for you because I know this must be, while
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: it's a great moment for me, I can't imagine that
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: this has to be a very challenging moment for you.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: So I just want you to know I'm not like
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: celebrating the loss. I'm just going to do my best.
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: And she'll remember that for the rest of her career.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, so.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very sweet. But anywho, when I went to
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: do it, it was wild because suddenly, you know, this
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: thing that we work for very long and hard to be,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: you know, lead of a TV show, it was happening.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't sure if I was ready for it.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: And then I did it.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And I was.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Why weren't you sure if you were ready or not?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I guess because you never know what you're ready for
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: until it happens. You know, I think right now in
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: this country, we're facing a time where I think all
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: the time every day that people have been talking for
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: years about what they would do, you know, if a
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: revolution came, what they would do if an injustice faced
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: us like it did our predecessors. And I'm always like, well,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: what we are doing right now is exactly what we're showing.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: We're showing.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Tweeting.
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Everybody thought they'd be so
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: big and bad. Just like everybody said, you know, if
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: I was in slavery, if I was in slavery, I
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: would have took over the master's house. If I was
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: in slavery.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: No, you wouldn't have.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe, maybe.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: But I'm just saying it's not. I don't see all
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: those revolutionaries. I don't see a lot of Nat Turners.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I don't see a lot of Nat Turners. I don't
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: see that.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: They all, when they make them IG videos, them two,
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: three minute IG videos yelling at everybody else for what
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: they not doing.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: With the captions on.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: You first.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying?
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you. What are we willing to actually... And look,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I'm a part of the we because here's the other thing.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: As much as I feel like there are things that
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: I stand for and things that I care about, things
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: that I'm going to push up against, there are also
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: things that I go, I'm still putting money in this economy,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: which is the biggest way that we're supporting all of it, right?
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: So every day that I do it.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: Like, look.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: How much are we willing to sacrifice, right? Like, I
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: don't know. Am I supposed to go off the grid?
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Am I supposed to, you know, go out? But there are, right?
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: There are people.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: There are people living out in the country, growing their
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: own food, doing all the things, training their kids how
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: to shoot guns. There are people who are doing that
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: because they understand that this is what it takes. I
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: don't know that I'm at a place to be doing
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: all of that. So I'm still a part of the we.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: The we that is saying we're not showing up. what
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: we're willing to do. So I think the answer is,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: just to your question, is we don't know what we're
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: capable of and or how we will surprise ourselves or
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: how we will fail ourselves. We don't know that until
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: the moment arises. On that day, when that opportunity came
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: to me, I was really proud of myself for more
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: than anything, the fact that I had watched number ones
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: in my career that I was both really impressed by
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: and also really disappointed in. And I was really happy
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: that I felt like I took that opportunity and led
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: a show by example. And that was the thing that
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I really still to this day, no matter what my
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: number is on a call sheet, that I be like,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: it's important to operate in excellence. It's important to show
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: up on time. It's important to be polite to people.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: It's important to know the names of the camera operators.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: It's important to be an example at all times because
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: so many people are working for this opportunity. So many people.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I am still working for all the opportunities that I'm given.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: So I really be out here like, man, I don't
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: want to ever make it look like I'm riding on,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: you know, my last success. I'm always like, I want
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: to honor this story. Things like Messy Lola, I'm like,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Kevin Douglas is a great writer and my dear friend,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and I love him. And he created this incredible concept.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: And I knew he was this brilliant writer that I
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: wanted to get something out of. in the universe that
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: represented him. But I'm like, when I do that, just
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: because it's my face on the show or just because,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? I know I'm telling his story.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I honor writer's words. I honor the worker space. I
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: honor the opportunities from all the black women before me
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: who opened doors so that we could do these things. Like,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I just really, really do think it's that serious that
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: like every day is an opportunity for us to honor the, um,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: The fact that we didn't used to be here.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: There's another lesson in the NBC pilot thing I think
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: people can learn from.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: Give it to me.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: Stop judging your career strictly by whether the audience saw
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: the work. Because nowadays you got these kids, they'll walk
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: into NBC just passing by and take a picture.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: And be like, on my way.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? On my way.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: You did no work.
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: You did nothing. When did you stop judging your career
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: strictly by whether the audience saw the work?
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, man. From the start.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: No jokes.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: From the start.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: My very first job was I did this movie.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not even going to remember it. It was originally
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: called Il Mare, but in the end it was Keanu
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Reeves and Sandra Bullock. The Lake House. That was my
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: very first movie.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: In 2006.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Yep. My very first movie was Lake House. It was
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: right out of college, right?
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: So excited.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So excited. thought it was so dope.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: It was for Warner Brothers.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: It was like this big director. I was working, it
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: was Keanu Reeves, Sandra Bullock. Sandy Bullock was like one
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: of my icons. Christopher Plummer, like man, it was like
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: heavy hitters. And I was so excited and I went
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: to set and I filmed like probably, I'm going to
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: say maybe 18 days, which is major, right? I don't
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: even know anymore, but let's say it was 18 days.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: It was downtown. It was on locations. It was in
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: my city.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: It was in Chicago.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I was loving life. The movie came out. I was
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: telling everybody.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Everybody.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I was, you know, waiting to go to the premiere,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: all this stuff on the day of the premiere, y'all,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: the day of the premiere. And I didn't have any
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: team at that time. I didn't have a publicist or anybody.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: So it's me, just my personal self calling the office like, hey, guys,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to check in because I haven't received
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: my ticket to the premiere yet. And they were like, oh, honey.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: you've been cut out of the film. And then eventually
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: what I found out is that I was still in
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the film, like visual, like I was out, you could
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: see me, but it was, my scenes were just drastically condensed.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: I even had a couple of lines, you know, but
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I was cut out of the film enough that they
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: did not feel like I deserved to.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Be included for a ticket.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: I couldn't even get a ticket, y'all. So I'm not
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: kidding you, that day, this is one of the most
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: strong memories I have. On the day of the premiere,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: when I was supposed to be at the premiere, When
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I really thought that was going to happen, I still
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: got dressed up and I went to the theater and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I bought a little bucket of popcorn and I sat
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: in the back and I watched the movie. I watched
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: myself on screen. And there I was, you know, that
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: big screen. And I dreamed my whole life of that.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: And so even though. the audience didn't see me, all
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the work that I really did, I was still there.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: You have such a great mental shift about not letting
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: anything steal your moment and being present in the moment
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: and showing up for it.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I really have worked for that.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: So it has not come easy and I've not always
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: been that way. I think even in the moments when
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I was... You know how sometimes you're telling yourself. you're telling,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, I'm just saying I
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: was always aware mentally of like what I knew I
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: needed to do or the conversations I needed to be
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: having in my head about myself. But that didn't always
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: line up like where, you know, it's in your head,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: but not your heart. And that took, you know, like
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: all of us, you know, it just take being a
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: grown woman.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Did you ever deal with imposter syndrome?
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, all the time. All the time. I'm really transparent
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: about this. I don't want to drop it down and
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: get real or anything, but I'm very transparent about this.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I talk about it a lot. But I really have
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: suffered with anxiety and depression quite a bit throughout my life.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: And I've gone to therapy. I also finally, as much
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: later in my life, looked at medication. I think all
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: my life I thought, I was very worried about being
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: on medication and what that would mean or, you know,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: because I had a little bit of an addictive personality.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: What was that going to do?
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I'm sober now too.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: So that was like, it's just a lot of things,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a lot. We catching up a lot.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: But like there were definitely, I think throughout this career,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: there's so many times when you think, shoot, I'm going
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: to tell you, Davina, was it not today? Davina, it
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: was today. Today, I had imposter syndrome. I'm not kidding y'all. Y'all, now,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I've been here since last night. The flight to get
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: here was insane. It was delayed five times and then canceled.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: And then we had to get a new flight. And then,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: so we didn't get in until this morning. And I
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: didn't have much communication with your producer, right?
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: Typical.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: That's what I heard.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: No shade.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: No shade, Eddie. No shade.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: But I was very honestly, I said to Davina in
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: the room, I said, girl, it's giving they don't know
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I'm here. It's giving that.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Who walked you in?
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: The security guard. And then I, yeah, Chris, Chris with
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: a good fate. So Chris with a good fate brought
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: me up and I was kicking it with Chris, but
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: then they just, you know, I met Sydney, but she
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: didn't say like, hello, Cynthia. You know, normally, you know,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like a Cynthia. So then they just put
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: me in a room and I'm in the room and
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: me and Davina looking at each other like, Well, do
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: they know we're here? And then we're waiting, you know,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: and then you came out looking beautiful with your red lip.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: And she looked directly at me, directly at me and
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: then turned away. And I said, Davina, they don't know me. Davina,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: they don't know me. They don't know why I'm here.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: They don't know that I'm on the show. They've never
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: seen every show. They've never watched anything I've ever done.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: They definitely don't. I think maybe I'm not at all.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I literally said today, I think maybe I'm not on
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: the show today.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: I promise you it's not you.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: No, it's us.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: No, no, don't say us, because I know who Cathy is.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: I know who she is. I said at least my
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: girl Jess. Honestly, I was like, at least I know Jess.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I was about to be like, let me see if
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I can hit up Jess real quick.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about the team.
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: Everything you're saying now, trust me, there's somebody right now saying, see,
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: I've been saying that, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, y'all.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to get anybody in trouble.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I feel bad because I remember I looked up, I
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: was grabbing my stuff to go to the bathroom, and
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: I saw your hat and your shirt, and I.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Was like, oh, she looks And then I went to
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the bathroom, I came back, y'all was here. I didn't
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: know all that was happening.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: As long as you've been in Hollywood, you know, there's
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: a certain protocol for certain things.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: You would think the Breakfast Club had a a producer
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: that might be more.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: Communicative, more in communication, you would think when you get here,
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: somebody would greet you and bring you upstairs.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: I completely understand.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: And the industry will humble you like that. It'll humble you,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: and that's why I never get too into it. There
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: are rooms I walk in where people are going to
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: be so excited to see me because they're fans of
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: whatever it is that I do. There are other rooms
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I walk in where people don't know who I am
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: at all. I do not live expecting anything. But yes,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: in the sense of the professional, you know, just you
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: do have a certain expectation of how it's going to run.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: But that didn't make me think, oh, they're not doing
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: anything right. That's what I'm saying is the answer. I'm
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: just saying what it made me feel was, oh, no.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: You know what's crazy? No, but you know what's crazy, though?
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I asked you that because when I was listening to
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: you and you were talking about how you went to
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: the theater and you still watched yourself or whatever, and
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: it didn't take away from who you knew you were.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I'm like, in real life, I'm working on that. So
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: that's a great place to get to. And hearing your
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: perspective of the imposter syndrome today where it was like
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: there were so many other things happening. It had nothing
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: to do with you and what you feel about yourself
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: and the work you did. It's like, man, imposter syndrome
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: will really make you forget who you are. Because it's like,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: regardless of all of that, you've done the work.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: You're here.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: But does it make you forget whose you are? Because
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you've got to get
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: to a place of worth.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: That is what she's talking about. That's what I'm saying.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: And that's what you just have to, it's constant.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: It's constant work.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying. All I mean by it's not
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: easy is it's constant work. And at no point do
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I think there's a, and I know this, not just
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: for me, but all the people I've worked with. I've
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: had the pleasure of working alongside so many incredible artists, actors, comedians,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: and I watch all of them have the same struggle.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: And what's funny is I just wish, and that's why
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: me when I say I'm very honest about it, because
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: I wish we just communicated that more. I wish that
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, we really could look
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: at each other and be like, no matter how fly
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: we look, We are just a bunch of little kids
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: who grew up, like for real. And that we really,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: and also that instead of critiquing each other and or
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: trying to front for each other, what we could do
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: is just be supporting each other so much more vocally,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: you know. But I really do thank God that, and
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I pray that you continue to have really good women
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: and family and people in your life who can, whatever
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: that sound get in your head, that maybe you not
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: the you you are. I surround myself by people, my girls,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: my fam. I surround myself by people and anybody who
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: I used to let be around that didn't make me
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: feel amazing about myself. They gone now.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Get them out.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I really used to allow people to be around me
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: that was like, eh, on me.
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: They was lukewarm. Eh, on me. And then I'm like,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: for what? You know how noisy this world is and
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: how much people want to... Like, no, man. I got
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: to combat that. I need people around me that's on
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: fire about me. I need people around me that tell me...
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: That they know I'm going to do the same for them.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I need people like that in my life because the
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: noise is loud in here. And we got to have
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: people that's louder than that. So I think that's also...
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: One of the things that allowed me to be like
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: that is I really have a great family. I've really
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: chosen some excellent friends. And I've also chosen friends who've
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: made me, who've told me, who disciplined me and checked
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: me and just saying, get the other ones out. That's important.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Bishop T.D. Jakes told me one time, because I deal
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: with the same thing, anxiety, bouts of depression. And Bishop T.D.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: Jakes says, look, when it comes to imposter syndrome, even
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: if you don't feel worthy, just know that you serve
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: a God.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: That believes your word.
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: And he will close that gap.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Don't you worry about it.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: So every place you are, you're supposed to be there
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: because God ordained you to be there.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: So if you lean into that, you'll have a sense
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: of forgiveness.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: It's not even about you.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I have reached out to... You know, Davina prayed for
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: me this morning. My friend Blake prayed for me. I
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: talked to my friend Kosan. And he has said to me,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: he said... Cosign from Chicago? Yeah.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: He's my guy.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Cosign from Chicago. He's the music producer on my
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: new film, Fried Catfish. Cosign, he has said to me,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I said, what is the prayer that you have for me?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: He said, my.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Favorite prayer is just to say, God, take me out
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: of the room. and you come in my place. And
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I said, that's good.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: That's good, honey.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I'ma do that. I like that one. Yeah, Coach always
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: got a good prayer for me. Let's talk about Average Joe. Yes,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: get into it.
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: Yes, Kathy Montgomery is ambitious, complicated, unapologetic. But what do
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: you feel that the viewers misunderstand about her character?
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Them viewers right now, they hate me, don't they? Ooh,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: they on the internet cut me up.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: That's a little misunderstood.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: What you feel like they did wrong?
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Look, here's the thing.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I'm an actress, right? And so I got to love
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: my character.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Like, I mean, I'm an actress. First of all, I'm
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: just like, I'm an actress. People really don't like to
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: separate your character. For years when I was Trina Shaw,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: when I tell you folks would be in the street like, Trina!
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: But that mean you're doing a good job. I love it.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: That means that you're killing it.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I'm like, amen.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: And they hate me right now. And I'm like, that's great.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: That means I'm doing my job right. But what I
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: will say is because it's my character and I love her,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna defend her, okay? Because as an actor, we
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: gotta fall in love with our characters. We have to
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: know who they are and see their points of view.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I just wanna say one thing. Everybody keep being like,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Kathy has.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: In season one, everyone loved Kathy, right? It was, that's
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: my girl. She ride or die. She so gangsta. We
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: love her, right? And in season two, they, hey, literally
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: at the end of season one, I don't know if y'all,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not ruining anything because most people, they've seen at
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: least season one. They might have caught up with two.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: But in season one, when we thought she was dead,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: when I say people was like, if Kathy die, I
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: ain't watching this show no more.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: I'm done.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Now we cut to season two and people.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Like, Kill this hoe.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Kill this old light-skinned asshole. I always knew she wasn't shit.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, I did.
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: Like something happened when we thought she was dead and then.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: You came back.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: And I really sat up and thought about it and
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: I said, you.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Know what's interesting?
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: When Kathy was, she's always been a killer. She's always
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: been vicious. She's always been self-serving. She's always been nasty,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: mouthed at nasty energy, really. I mean, I still think she's.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Funny, though.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: But what she was was loyal to Leon, right? Now,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: in season two, because people think she's not being loyal,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: then they so ready to be done with her. My
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: thing is that she's a villain. She's always been a villain.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: She's an anti-hero, you know what I mean? And what
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I find interesting about it is that people will always
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: champion you when you're loyal to others. This is just
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: an interesting thing, what we talking about. But when you
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: loyal to yourself... They don't like that. They don't like that.
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: That is so true because Empower, when Ghost was loyal
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: to everybody else, I loved him. But when he started, like,
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: pulling back and only thinking about himself.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I hated him.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Still didn't want to see him die.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Like, I didn't want to see Kathy die.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: Exactly. You know what I mean?
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Well, no, they want to see me dead.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: No, I know.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Girl, no, they said die. They said, if I come
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: back next episode and she's still here, I'm cutting it off.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: The conversation is whether you ride or die or not. Like,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: whether you And then this is, I'ma ruin stuff for people.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler, spoiler. Okay, so
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: they gone, y'all good? Y'all just cover your ears. Okay,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: we coming right back. Okay, so in case you haven't
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: watched it yet, but in this last episode, everybody thought
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: she was throwing them to the wolves and putting them
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: in prison. She literally said, hey man, I wasn't ever
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: going to leave you there. I was going to come back.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: She was not. She's not.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Now look.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Does she serve herself? Yes, absolutely. She has said from
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: day one, episode one, I'm about this money. I was
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: always about the money. I married this man because we
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: were supposed to do something together. But as we saw
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: in flashbacks, this is about me, Leon said this.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: To our family.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: She never said that. Kathy said, you my family. You're
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: my husband. I've chosen you. And for two seasons, she's
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: been begging him to choose her and he keeps choosing
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: his friend, which is hilarious to me that we all
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: see that she's not loyal.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: That's what we think.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: She's not loyal.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: And I'm like.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: They said she was a gold digger. Was she? Because
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the man lost his job, lost the hardware store, lost
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: the whole franchise, and she's still been there. She ain't
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: cheated on him. She ain't left nowhere. So what she
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: did was she was promised a certain life, a certain thing.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: And even when she didn't get it, she didn't abandon him.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: She's been with him. His friends the whole time been
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: calling her a cunt and a bitch and a hoe
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: and everything else. And he's letting that happen. So I'm
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: just saying that my argument would be that actually Kathy
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: has been faithful to him all along and he has
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: not been loyal to her. And she is about tired
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: of it. But she still is like, look, do you.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: You got a little soft heart. I know you. It's okay.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: You go save your friend, be with your boy, do
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: what you got to do. But I'm going to go
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: get this money. And when I get it, I'm going
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: to come back and get you. I'll even let your
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: little friend out of jail too. But when we get
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: that money, we got to go and it's got to
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: be me and you. Because I'm tired of all this
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: talk about him and his family and his daughter.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: That's not my family.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: And I think for me, Kathy is just, she's someone
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: who has always been who she was and she's shrunken
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: herself a little bit. She, if we remember on day one,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: when things started popping off, she was the first one ready.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: She was shooting and taking bodies on episode one.
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: That's why everybody loved Cathy in the first season.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Like, you were ride or die. You know what I mean?
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: You still are ride or die, but it was just,
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: I don't know, it's a little fluff this season. And
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: do you feel like the audience, they will judge an
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: ambitious woman differently than they judge an ambitious man?
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Here's what's crazy.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Y'all, we have a villain this season.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Sipo.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Sipo out here cutting off heads. Yeah. Sipo out here
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: drowning kids in the pool. Do you know no one
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: on the internet is talking about Sipo? They are only
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: talking about me. Yes, they judge a woman differently. Are
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: you crazy? Like a woman, all she's doing is trying
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: to get the money and get the money to give
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: to her. She ain't trying to skip town on him.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: She wants more than anything for her and Leon to
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: have a chance To live a life. And also, look,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I will say this. She's also a little bit of
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: a psychopath. Let's not undermine that. Okay, thank you. She
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: a little crazy. She's been a little crazy. Leon was
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: a little weird. Everybody a little weird. You know, I
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: think the show is also about saying it's average Joe, right?
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: It's what happens if average people get put in situations.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: And what do we say? You're going to find out.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Are you a Nat Turner?
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Are you an Uncle Tom? Who are you? And I
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: just think that, you know, are you the godfather or
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: are you Fredo?
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: There's got to be a middle ground between Uncle Tom
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: and Nat Turner, too. It can't just be either or.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: I know he's on the world extreme, but it can't
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: be just Nat and Uncle.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: It's a middle ground.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, who was in The Godfather?
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: So who wasn't Corleone and wasn't Fredo? You know what
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I mean? Like, maybe you're going to be Clemenza. You
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Maybe you're going to be just
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: helping out and, you know, making sure the food is tasty.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm just saying, though, you're going to
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: figure out who you are in this life of crime.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying. In his life of crime, you gon'
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: figure out, are you cut out for it or are
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: you not? And I'm just saying, I think she actually
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: is really cut out for it. And that to me
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: is what, and it's taken a long time to get there,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: but I really just feel like hopefully by the end,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: people will see that Cathy was just a different, she
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: cut from a different cloth. that actually she really is
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: good at being a criminal, whereas the rest of them
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: are kind of fumbling through it. She's always been a
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: little bit a step ahead of them. But she just,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: I think, would love it if she could be a
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: criminal and if Leon would still love her. So it's
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: two things. Again, I'm just an actress, so I got
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: to play what's true to me. And I really have
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: just found it wildly fun and interesting to play a
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: woman who loves her husband, but is not like a
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: lover girl. Do you know what I mean?
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Well, let's stay there then.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: How much of Cynthia is in.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Your character? How much of you is in.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: If I say any, it's going to be... I honestly...
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I feel like this is gonna sound so terrible. Because
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: you said what's true to you. You gotta play what's
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: true to you. I'm not a killer, obviously, but honestly,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Cathy is the closest to me than anything I've ever played.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: You ain't no killer, but don't push it.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying. I ain't no killer. But again,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Cathy is much more vicious than me. Also, I just
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: think all my life I've played a lot of things
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that were very like lawyers and people who are all
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: put together. And I am not that person at all.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I think there's a public-facing version of me where people
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: kind of... You know, when I was working with Kevin,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I remember on our first season, at the end of
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Real Husbands, and he met my husband.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Kevin Hart.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, Kevin Hart.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Kevin Hart, yes. And he met my husband, who is
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: now my ex-husband, who we will not mention, but most
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: people know this. Again, this is pretty public, but my
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: ex-husband was in jail. And when I say in jail,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: I mean he was in jail before he became my husband. So, yes,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: I married the dude after he got out. So there's
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: a whole lot there.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, honey, I was with him the whole time he
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: was there. I was with him before he went into jail.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: I was with him during the time he was in
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: jail and I was with him. And then we married afterwards.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: In the end, I should have known better. Like my
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: mama tried to tell me. See, parents. My mama tried
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: to tell me. But what's funny is he was in
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: jail for basically being a con. And guess what, y'all?
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: He turned out to be a con. Conned me into marriage.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Anyway, so. You real life ride or die?
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Honey so that's what i'm saying so what's funny is
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: like it.
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: Actually you got typecast y'all remember when i was on
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: prison break i was i was also on prison break
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: and i was yeah when i would that show was
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: on at the time i was going to visit him
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: in jail and when i tell you the way them
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: guards used to mess with.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Me y'all i used to get so much shit like
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: they would be like oh you coming to break up
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: break them out you coming to break your ass shut
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: the Shut the fuck up. Anyway, so yes, Kathy is
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: probably the closest in the sense that like, I don't
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: mean I'm a killer. I don't mean I'm vicious. I
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: just mean that I am loyal. I think let me say,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I'll say it that way.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I am loyal.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: But what I will say is, and this is something
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: that fascinates me about her and why I like playing it,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: is I am loyal and I am also someone who
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: has made the mistake of being loyal to others and
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: then sacrificing.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Sacrificing.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: What matters to me or not serving myself enough, you know,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: because that's the thing. And I think I talk a
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: lot of my girlfriends about this is that I will,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: I'll be so worried about what everybody's going to think
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: or who's going to be happy. And I think women
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: in general, we do a lot of sacrificing for the family,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: for our husband, for the children, for the group, for whatever.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: And I am really trying to learn, honestly, from Kathy.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I learn from all my characters about how does one
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: put themselves first? Because I actually admire that about her.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I think it is a very masculine trait. I think
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: it's a trait that women are not taught and men are. Yes.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: And that's what I'm saying is that as a wife,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: it is looked at as you ain't when you do something.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: But I'm like men for all time have been pursuing opportunities,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: pursuing money, pursuing their better job.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: If they get a good job, it takes them. So
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: like we think of it as terrible because it's about
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: killing people for money. But if it was just a
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: proper right. you get a good job and it takes
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: you to New York, to L.A., and your wife is like, well,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I don't wanna go, you gon' go. And nobody is
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: gonna say, like, you ain't, they're gonna say he did
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: what he had to do, you know? And also they're
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: gonna say he's making money for the family, right? But
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: when a woman.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: You leaving the family, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: And I know these are different circumstances because we're talking
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: about killing Imani. I understand that. But I'm just saying
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: it's still to me at base the same point is
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: that women are not encouraged to be self-serving. It is
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: looked at as you are a bitch the second. And
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: not just that, but also that you're kind of like
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: you lose your... It's not softness. It's like your lovability.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: You're literally no longer lovable. Like, the thing that made
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: you valuable was not what you had to offer the world,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: was not what you could bring in your skill set
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: or your point of view or whatever. It's your loyalty
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: I wonder if it's that or if it's the fact
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: that it's almost like you're not being submissive.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Like, women are looked at as submissive.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: So when you're not submissive, it's like that's not a
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: womanly trait. Yep. And even when.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: But I will.
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: just piggyback what you said and expound on it a
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: little bit from a different perspective, the women, sometimes women
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: will beat themselves up about that.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Because that's what I had to do.
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: I had to leave my family to live here to
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: do this job. Everybody can't uproot their lives. My kids
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: got their lives. My husband has his life.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: My whole family is in Maryland. And you feel bad
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: about that sometimes, right? Not because they make me feel
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: bad or whatever. The world is looking at me like, Oh,
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: she a deadbeat. She ain't even with her kids. She
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: picked this job over her kids or her family. I
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: just feel that.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I do know what you mean.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: But somebody is saying you a deadbeat. That's fucked up.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Like, somebody is saying that.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think that.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: You shouldn't think that's the truth. Somebody is saying that.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: And that's why you feel it.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying you're not crazy. Like, no, you're not crazy.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: That is what.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: a narrative that gets told. One of my best friends,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Tambra Perry, she's an actress. She was on the show
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Brilliant Minds. She's number two. Again, I've been with her forever.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I've watched her work her little tail off. Her husband, again,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: is the guy who wrote the show. I love them.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: They're a great couple. They solid. They've both been in
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: this industry forever. They're great. Right. But when she gets
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: a job that takes her to New York, took her
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: to then in season two, they went to Canada and
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: her kids, they got two little girls. Them little girls
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: are in school. Them little girls got lives. They can't
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: pick up and move just because she moves. So there
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: might be five months for four to four to five months.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: When we go do a show, we're separated from our partners.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: And yes, she's going to fly them out when they can.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: She's going to go home when she can. Again, it
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be anything if a man did it. It's literally
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: nothing when a man does it. We literally don't even
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: question it. It's what he got to do.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: A man will cheat and use it as an excuse.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: He was gone for four months. Exactly. And you talk
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: to your friends and your mom. about it, they'll be like,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: you better go where that man going. You better go
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: and get that man.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Because it's four to five months.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can't leave that man.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: They would never be like, why is he leaving you?
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: And it's crazy.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: And that's what I mean. And I am not. I
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: am not. I am not. I am not.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: I am not.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I am not.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: One of these women who are out here trying to
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: hate men. I love men. I love us. I want
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: us to work together. I'm just saying that I think
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: a part of us working together is that First of all,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: we stop worrying about what everybody's saying on the Internet.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: And that's what I mean is they marriage is fine.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: They're fine. They know who each other are, right? We
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: got to stop worrying about somebody thinking we a deadbeat mom.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Who cares? Do your kids love you? Do they feel loved?
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they do.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Do they know that mommy loves them?
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: And are they proud of you when they see you?
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: And are you teaching them by being here that they
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: can do anything? Yeah.
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: Just like I have to leave right after the interview
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: to get on a flight to go to back to
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: school night for my son.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: This is first year in high school.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Girl, I ain't missing that for nothing.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Love it.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: So, yeah.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: I'm going to fly right back. And he know mommy
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: going to show up when it matters.
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: And that's it. Thank you, girl. I just think, yeah, don't,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: we got to stop worrying about how other people feel about,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: if I hear one more podcast. person, relationship, advice given, something.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: I just want us to, and look, we all, we
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: need the media because we have jobs because of media.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: But also, I just would love if we could do
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: more of this, more conversation that, where we really are
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: hearing different perspectives, where we are encouraging one another, and
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: where the end goal is that we figure out how
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: to love each other both relationally and communally better.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Period.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Point blank.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's it.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Going back to what am I? I'm a storyteller. And
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: I want stories that inspire us to either laugh at
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: how we're not doing a thing right, to point out
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: the absurdity of it all, or to emotionally grab at
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: us and compel us to do better. That's what I
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: think this incredible magic of media and storytelling can do
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: and should do, you know?
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you for sharing some of your story with
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: us this morning.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so blessed.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I was reading a review about you when I was
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: studying for this.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: No, it was great.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: That's all I want to share. No, it was great.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: It's on Riot U.S.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: But she talked about, it's a woman, she talks about
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: how you're the standout character for the season. from the
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: first season, and she says that you became the most
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: dynamic of the group. And that basically, I mean, this article,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I'll send it to you, is giving you so much prop.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: And I know that when you're in that whole phase
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: of like, am I, do I, seeing things like this
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: are really good. So I just wanted to point that out,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: that when I was reading about you, everyone, even if
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: they hate you, are like, but what would we do
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: without her on this show? Because you have become the conversation,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: even with that villain you mentioned.
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: Girl, if you got everybody in an uproar, including me.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: At least they care.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Exactly.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I love it. I always be like, my job is
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: to serve the story. So I'm so grateful. People talking
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: about it, it means they into it. I'm going to
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: get you in your feelings. I'd rather you be in
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: your feelings than be lukewarm. What I say, I don't
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: want nobody being lukewarm about me. I'm interested in you
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: having feelings, whether that's as a character or as a person.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I want you to be invested. So I'm so grateful.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you to that sis who wrote that article.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sis. That's what I tell you. Women be supportin'. Yeah,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I love it. My sisters be out here for me.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: Well, I love you, Cynthia Cathy Williams.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Cynthia K. McWilliams slash Cynthia Cathy McWilliams.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's what it is.
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: Well, thank you, Cynthia, for joining us. Make sure y'all
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: check out Average Joe and Messy Lola.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Streaming now on Roku. Yes, Kevin Douglas, Blake Martin, all
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: the cast, all of Chicago behind this project. Thank you
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: so much for bringing it out of independent obscurity. and
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: onto television. We worked so hard for that. So people,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: thank you so much. When you watch Average Dough, that
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: money go to them. When you watch Messy Lola, it
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: go to us. I just want to make sure.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: I say that.
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: I was going close, but I feel like you got
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: to take this opportunity to talk about Sin City.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Sin City Productions.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: It's my production company.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: I'll try to make it real quick. Sin City Production Company,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: it's an independent production company. I'm out of Chicago. Chicago's
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: where I went to DePaul. It's where I started my career,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: and so it's where I went back home. I left L.A.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: and I moved back home, and I really decided that
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: it was a place I could make the most impact.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: In L.A., it's very hard to do anything. I'm going
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: to be super transparent, too, because I always love to
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: talk about money because I think that people think they
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: can't do things, and I want to be clear. Messy
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Lola's my first project. It's a 10-episode series that's now
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: on Roku. It's really hard to get an independent scene
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: by anybody, let alone the streaming. I have no team
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: behind me. I have no investors. This is 100% self-funded.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: We did 10 episodes of television for $ 180, 000.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, I know.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: And then what I learned from that was all of
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: the things that I could do to make that budget
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: go even further. My next project was Fried Catfish. Still,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: very small budget, but we did it all in Chicago,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: all Chicago locations. We worked very much with the Illinois
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Film Office, with the SAG, with unions, the WGA signatory.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: But really, and I always say this, The bottom line
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: is money is not the resource. People are the resource.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: That you can get anything done if you reach across,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: if you look at your phone book and you realize
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: that all your life you've been creating and sowing seeds.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Now that's if you are a person who's been sowing
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: good seed, which is why I also say, and I
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: warn against, sometimes people be so busy trying to chase
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: something that they forget to sow any seeds along the
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: way to plant anything to support anybody else. You want
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: the support and you look back and realize I haven't
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: showed up for anybody and that's why nobody showed up
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: for you. But Because I'm really fortunate to be surrounded
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: by so many incredible creatives. When I say each one
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: of these projects, I was able to call actors. I
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: didn't audition anybody. I knew exactly who to hire because
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: I know these people. I've been in the city for
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: years working, watching them work. Why? I hate when I
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: have to go audition for something that I'm like, I
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: just played that character yesterday.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to find writers like Kevin Douglas, who
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: created this incredible, funny, quirky show, who are pushing and
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: scraping and trying to make it and just say, I'm
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: going to hire you. I'm not going to even play games.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going to hire you.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I'm asking you.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Write me a show. Because I know you can. And
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: then I'm going to put a crew together of people
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: that might be like they're in the union or they're
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: outside of the union. They can't break through because of gatekeeping.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, come get over here on this set.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: On our set, we operate what one of my executive
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: producers that works with me, Latarion Perry, what we sort
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: of created called a teaching set, like a teaching hospital.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: So our department heads are people who are like in
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: unions or who have experience. And then everyone underneath them
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: is green. And we make sure then that you can
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: come in to get more black people, more brown people,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: more women in positions that they don't often get to do.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: So when you come and you do sound, you're going
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: to actually be able to, you know, you're going to
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: get up in here and not just mic me up.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: You're going to hold a boom. If you're a camera operator,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: you're not just, you know, doing slate. You're going to
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: come touch this camera. We're going to get you in here.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: You're going to work.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Teaching them as well. Teaching them.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: And then also just giving them an opportunity to see it.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: But there's also a wildly active filmmaking community in Chicago already.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Please do not make me sound like I have changed
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: the world or anything. They were there. I just wanted
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: to galvanize, put people together, and get some folks that
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: maybe wouldn't have had an opportunity to be in those opportunities.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Sin City Studios. Sin City Studios. Now, Sin City Studios
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: is what evolved into Sin City Productions. So that's how
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: it happened. I started because... Sometimes you don't know. You
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: got to fail at a couple of things to get
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: it right. I started just because I bought a building
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: when I moved back to Chicago because I believe in
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: real estate, you know. I needed to live somewhere. And
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: I always feel like if you buy something, it's better
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: to just have choices. Anywho, I had this building. Eventually,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I decided that the two floors that were residential, we would,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: instead of making it residential, we would take this really
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: creative thing we were doing. where we were just kind
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: of like, we were doing so much. We were doing
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: so much. But we were doing like experimental, creative campaign ads,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: editorial shoots. We had an amazing photographer. We had a
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: hair and makeup team. We had videographers. And then we
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: expanded and we got these podcast studios. And we were
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: doing a bunch of stuff. But I was kind of
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: throwing spaghetti at the wall. But again, sometimes God... And
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I really think to this day, like you said, it's
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: not about the audience or who saw that show. It's
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: just sometimes you don't even know what you're doing. But
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: if you're operating in the will of God, it's like
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: it'll work itself out. And I really just... What I
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: realized is that the business kind of wasn't right for Chicago.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: The market... they didn't have enough creatives that were willing
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: to invest in their careers and like the media behind,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? They weren't willing to do
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: that in a way that could sustain our business. So
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I was putting a lot of money into something that
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: wasn't bringing a lot of money out. But then I realized, look,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: if I'm gonna go broke, you know, doing something, let
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: me at least do it so that I have product
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: at the end. So then I decided, what was crazy anyways?
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: I go, well, Cynthia, you are an actress and you're
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: a storyteller and you're a writer and you're a thinker
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: and you're a director and you've been, you've left your
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: field Basically, I wanted to fill the gap for the
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: things I didn't have in my career, right? I was like,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: as an actor, there were things I had always wanted.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: I wanted a place that I could go to where
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: someone could help advise my career, could come up with
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: strategies for publicity. could help me with hair and makeup
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: and styling. I wanted a one sort of house place
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: where I could do that. I thought that would be
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: great for actors, right? Where you go one place and
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: we can take all of your brand and elevate it
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: in every way, you know? And help you with media
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: training and just any and everything that you needed. It
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: was a great idea. It just didn't suit my market.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: But then I thought, I still got all these amazing people, though.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: I had all these amazing people. And from that, it
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: was like, literally, I looked to my left and my
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: right and I said, why am I doing everything other
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: than the thing that I actually do for a living?
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: And then I just said, so Sensity Creative became Sensity Productions.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: We did not know what was going to happen. We
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: just went. I didn't wait.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't consult.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: And sometimes that's a fail on my part because I
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: move fast.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: I also, though, move in with inspiration and sometimes an intention.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: And sometimes that means, you know, I might mess up
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: a contract. I might fail at a thing. I might,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm just I'm gonna make mistakes. I'm gonna
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: make mistakes. But I really try to be like, hey,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: I'm OK with making mistakes.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: You're human.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: As long as what I'm also making is a possibility.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: You know, I want to make space for more instead
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: of I hate when people say what can't happen. I
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: feel like let's not talk about what we can't do.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about what we can't do, how we can
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: do it. So we gathered together, we did that first production,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: we learned an enormous amount, and then very quickly after,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: I did my first feature film, which was my directorial debut.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Got the chance to work with my very dear friend,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: Terry Vaughn.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love her.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, Terry Vaughn and I play besties in this movie.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: And it's a rom-com that is a rom-com that turns
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: on its head. You know, every rom-com is about some
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: woman trying to find a man and get married. This
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: one is about a woman who is married who's trying
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: to get rid of her husband. And she catfishes him
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: in order to get rid of it, and it's black people,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: so we called it Fried Catfish.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: So that's that movie. And that's our second project.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: We're done.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: We're in post right now. So in less than a
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: year and a half. We have gotten two really incredible projects,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: not just ideated but actually completed. Let me not say that.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: I was going to say not in a TP way,
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: and I don't want to say that man's name in
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: vain because he's a good businessman. What I mean is
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: just that, and not in a way I feel that sacrificed.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: We didn't overwork our crew. We really tried to make
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: sure that we respected people's time. We gave them 10-hour days.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: We never compromised story. We worked with really incredible writers
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: so that... We had a good thing at the end.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm really proud of a lot of these actors.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: And production value is always, it's a struggle. It's a struggle.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: But we doubled our production value in one project. And
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: most importantly, we finished it and we got it to streaming.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: And we did that with no marketing, no money, really,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: outside of our original budget. No team. Wow. really just
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: because Chicago loves us down and then we have spread
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: from there and now we're out here, we're streaming and
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: so I really just, again, I mean it when I
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: say like, I want people to watch, and I'm joking
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: when I say that paramount, not me. This does come
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: to us, meaning just that I am self-funded. I really
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: did go broke doing, you know what I mean? I
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: put all of my money into this. I invested in myself,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: but it's not myself. I invested in what I really
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: believe so many people around me are capable of. I
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: invested in people the way I always wanted somebody to
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: invest in me. It's not that I invested in me. Yeah,
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: it's my project, and I was like, look, if I'm
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: the most notable face among it that will help us
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: get this thing out, cool. But what I really invested
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: in is a city that I know has an immense
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: amount of talent that sometimes gets lost in the conversation
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: about LA, New York, you know? And what I invested
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: in was writers that I know and love that Kevin
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Douglas and Indik Preg Dalvon are writers I've known for
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: 20 plus years that deserve all of the accolades. I
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: invested in people that had never been on a set before,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: that had never directed before, that had never done costuming
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: or art department before. And now in just a year
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: and a half, I look around me all the time.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: These people that I did this, they're working now. They're
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: in the industry. They're doing things. And I'd be like,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't do that. Like I said, I just made space.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: They were already who they were. We were always who
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: we were. Sometimes we just need people to.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: Give us, see us, just see us.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: And actually make space for us and stop thinking that
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: if you make space for someone else, you will lose space.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: There's enough. There is enough. This world is so plentiful.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: God is so amazing. I just want us to really
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: make space for each other. So that's what Sin City
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: Productions is and hopefully will continue to be.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: Well, congratulations. That's right. And others. Thank you. And everybody else.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you. You know who you remember?
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: I just knew this came to me. Crystal Renee Haysley.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: I get it all. A mix between her and Robyn Deedy.
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: Robyn Deedy.
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: Robyn.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: I get Robyn, Crystal, and Tracee Ellis Ross. These are
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: the people I get all of the time. Crystal Renee
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Haysley first.
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: Crystal?
• 54:24
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: That's my number one.
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: I'm looking like a.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, I feel like I know her.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: Chris Dillon.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it all the time. I take that
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: very much as a compliment because she is an absolutely
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: gorgeous woman. So I take it as a compliment. And
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: your spirit, too. Yes, she has such a great energy.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: I love her podcast.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: I love her.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Keep it positive, sweetie. Yes, keep it positive, sweetie. That's
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. I love it. We got enough
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: people trying to keep it hater.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: So thank you for keeping it positive, sweetie.
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: Cynthia K. McWilliams, it's The Breakfast Club. Thank you for
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: joining us.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Hold up.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: Every day I wake up.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: You all finished or you all done?