Latest / Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews / What the Tower of Babel and AI Have in Common

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What the Tower of Babel and AI Have in Common · Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews

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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hey Ben, thanks for joining me.
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Speaker 2: Thanks brother, good to be on.
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Speaker 1: Ben Peterson, founder of Engage Your Destiny, a ministry to
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Speaker 1: military personnel. You served a course in the military as
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Speaker 1: a chaplain's assistant. Ben. You're the author also of the
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Speaker 1: new book When Intelligent Isn't When Intelligence Isn't Human, Navigating
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Speaker 1: your Faith in the Age of AI. I love that title. Ben.
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Speaker 1: You're around young adults a lot. You have a heightened
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Speaker 1: awareness of what is going on among that age group
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Speaker 1: and how AI is impacting the next generation. I was
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Speaker 1: wanting to ask you as we start here. You argue
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Speaker 1: that AI is changing the way young people think. First off,
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Speaker 1: what do you mean, because many people don't even know
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Speaker 1: what that even means. They're not following it that closely. Secondly,
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Speaker 1: what led you to want to tackle this subject and
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Speaker 1: want to write this book?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think what we have to come back to
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Speaker 2: is how the dopamine centers of young people have been
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Speaker 2: completely hacked. The way that social media works is built
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Speaker 2: like a slot machine that you would find in a casino.
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Speaker 2: It gives you varied responses and keeps you coming back
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Speaker 2: again and again, and short form videos hack the nervous system.
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Speaker 2: They hack the dopamine system and basically getting us to
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Speaker 2: continue to scroll. So every third to fifth video, they're
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Speaker 2: going to show you videos that you're not interested in
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Speaker 2: and that they know that you're not going to be
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Speaker 2: that into, creating that desire to keep swiping. And one
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Speaker 2: of the misunderstandings Michael is most people think that dopamine
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Speaker 2: is a pleasure chemical. Well, it's actually more of a pursuit.
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Speaker 2: It's a chemical that's telling the brain, hey, keep pursuing this.
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Speaker 2: And so what we're creating is these dopamine cycles where
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Speaker 2: young people are always pursuing and they're excited, but they're
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Speaker 2: never satisfied. They're never achieving anything, they're never building anything.
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Speaker 2: And that is why we have the highest levels of anxiety, depression,
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Speaker 2: and suicide in young people. Is this hopelessness is building
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Speaker 2: and being conditioned into the brain.
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Speaker 1: AI knows this.
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Speaker 2: This is all being design very specifically to keep young
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Speaker 2: people scrolling and scrolling for the purpose of making money.
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Speaker 2: And I really decided to write this book because I
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Speaker 2: believe that we're entering into the time of Matthew twenty
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Speaker 2: four where AI is the tool of the great deception,
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Speaker 2: and a book needed to be written about it, and
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Speaker 2: I have much to say about the creators and the
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Speaker 2: originators of AI and the world that they want to build.
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Speaker 1: Let's talk about AI specifically and how it's replacing friendships
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Speaker 1: and family members in terms of how people interact with others,
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Speaker 1: because you have concerned about that as well. Explain the
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Speaker 1: problems you've seen there among military personnel among young people
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Speaker 1: because it's so easy. Againness, I read stories like this
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Speaker 1: often and they're scary. It's almost science fiction. But it's
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Speaker 1: happening in our society to day, in our world where
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Speaker 1: people are becoming quote unquote friends and buddies with AI.
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Speaker 1: And what are the problems that for sins in terms
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Speaker 1: of Christians and in terms of just being a human.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. What I want to come back to, Michael, is
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Speaker 2: that AI is a conduit for its creators. It is
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Speaker 2: executing upon the way that the algorithms have been set up.
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Speaker 2: And the founders of Open AI, of Anthropic, of Google,
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Speaker 2: Microsoft Meta, none of them follow Jesus. And if we
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Speaker 2: look at Matt Tew twelve, Jesus said, if you're not
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Speaker 2: for me, you're against me. And so the creators of
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Speaker 2: the most powerful technology in the history of the world
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Speaker 2: that is impacting every smartphone and every user in the
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Speaker 2: world is being designed and proliferated by men who don't
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Speaker 2: follow Christ and are the enemies of Christ. And I
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Speaker 2: think the biggest issue, Michael, is that we are more
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Speaker 2: tuned into technology than we are into our relationship with
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Speaker 2: God and with the Holy Spirit. That brings me back
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Speaker 2: to Matthew twenty four. Into this great deception. They are
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Speaker 2: talking about a euphoria that they can build. And the
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Speaker 2: last groups, the last leaders in our world that made
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Speaker 2: those promises of building a euphoria or utopia and the
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Speaker 2: suffering it would take to get there, were male Hitler
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Speaker 2: and Stalin, and over one hundred million people died because
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Speaker 2: of their vision of building utopias. And all of these
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Speaker 2: creators of artificial intelligence. They're talking about a utopia that
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Speaker 2: we can build where we don't need money, we don't
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Speaker 2: need the economies of scale, we don't need all of
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Speaker 2: these things, and that AI is going to solve all
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Speaker 2: the world's problems. And that's extremely dangerous, specifically when you're
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Speaker 2: dealing with men who follow evolutionary moral relativism, survival of
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Speaker 2: the fittest thinking, and they are not followers of Christ.
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Speaker 1: But this impacts This impacts young people though on just
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Speaker 1: a human level, because they're trying to replace what is
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Speaker 1: natural and what is scriptural with what is just tech.
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Speaker 1: It pretends to be something that it's not. Tell me
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Speaker 1: about your concerns about that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So Barnet came out with a study about a
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Speaker 2: month ago where they said that forty percent of gen
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Speaker 2: z is considering AI in the same vein as a pastor.
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Speaker 2: And so these AI chatbots have become so emotionally intelligent.
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Speaker 2: They speak to you, they lift you up, they praise you,
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Speaker 2: and they have an ability because they have no selfish
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Speaker 2: ambition like humans have where we get distract it or
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Speaker 2: we focus on other things, to be just solely devoted
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Speaker 2: through the algorithms to you as a person. And young
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Speaker 2: people have been conditioned through technology to be texting, to
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Speaker 2: be snapping, to be doing all of these experiences via tech,
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Speaker 2: and to get emotional connection regulation on technology. And so
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Speaker 2: now that technology is talking back to them, it's making
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Speaker 2: them feel known, it's making them feel like they belong
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Speaker 2: while still they're in the dopamine loop and they're not
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Speaker 2: getting any real satisfaction, but they're getting entertainment and excitement.
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Speaker 2: So mental health is declining and engagement is only.
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Speaker 1: Increasing many people, including Christians. Of course, you use AI
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Speaker 1: tools for work in everyday life. Ben, where do you
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Speaker 1: draw the line between healthy use and unhealthy dependents or
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Speaker 1: do you think there's any healthy use at all?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I am not ANTIAI, and I'll tell you that
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Speaker 2: AI is not the issue here. It's the originators and
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Speaker 2: the creators of AI and the world that they are
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Speaker 2: trying to build. So, for example, Logo Software has a
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Speaker 2: native AI system that they use that's a wonderful tool
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Speaker 2: to help you study God's word. And where I draw
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Speaker 2: the line is that AI is a tool, it's not
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Speaker 2: a guide, and it's never a relationship. We are made
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Speaker 2: in the image of God and the image of a creator,
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Speaker 2: and therefore, since we are in Christ, we are creators
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Speaker 2: as well. And what I'm challenging people every day to do.
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Speaker 2: I was just speaking at a church yesterday with a
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Speaker 2: lot of creatives and people in film that are making
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Speaker 2: some of the most popular Christian films in America, is
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Speaker 2: to not export the God given nature and creativity into
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Speaker 2: AI to come up with ideas, use AI to organize
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Speaker 2: those ideas. But you be the originator. You be the
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Speaker 2: person that is dreaming with God and is being the
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Speaker 2: creator that God has called you to be, and don't
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Speaker 2: export that into AI and then don't be seeking it
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Speaker 2: out as a relationship. There is no soul, there's no spear,
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Speaker 2: but there is nothing on the other side of that
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Speaker 2: that is going to be able nurture and create a
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Speaker 2: real deep connection.
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Speaker 1: Which is what we're all truly longing for. And if
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Speaker 1: you keep doing that, the mind is like a muscle.
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Speaker 1: I mean, if you keep doing that over time, you
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Speaker 1: are all of a sudden unable to do that which
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Speaker 1: you once could. And as a society, I don't know
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Speaker 1: if you agree with me here or not, but if
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Speaker 1: you do that roadly across the siding, then all of
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Speaker 1: a sudden you have done down your creative ability as
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Speaker 1: a society. Yes, you agree with that absolutely.
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Speaker 2: The mind, specifically in the prefrontal cortex, was designed to
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Speaker 2: create drive through boredom. So when we are bored, the
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Speaker 2: insular cortex becomes down regulated and then there's a drive
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Speaker 2: and a neurochemical response to then go and do something,
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Speaker 2: to go build something. And when that gets hacked through
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Speaker 2: the dopamine receptors in the brain, which is what they've
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Speaker 2: done with AI and social media and all these things.
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Speaker 2: It's driving us towards technology when actually God has designed
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Speaker 2: that for us to dream with him, to go, build,
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Speaker 2: to go, think, to go. Notice, And that's where we
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Speaker 2: want to see boredom as an opportunity to find our
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Speaker 2: place and use it for God's purposes, not just using
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Speaker 2: it for entertainment and false connection.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, we've seen this with on a smaller scale, I guess,
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Speaker 1: with calculators than with GPS. You know, we once could
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Speaker 1: do math, with so many of us can no longer
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Speaker 1: do math because we rely on calculators that we know
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Speaker 1: we once could use to get a map, a physical
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Speaker 1: map you would pick up at a convenience store and
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Speaker 1: look at it, but so many people cannot do that anymore.
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Speaker 1: And of course how creativity is like it is so
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Speaker 1: much more important. I mean, that's like a basis part
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Speaker 1: of just being a human. And so I agree with
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Speaker 1: everything you're saying. Go back to what you said earlier
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Speaker 1: about this being a great deception. You see a prophetic
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Speaker 1: instance of this in scripture, where this is something that
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Speaker 1: scripture talks about and is warning about.
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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and I diggle lot into this into my
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Speaker 2: book When Intelligence Isn't Human, specifically going into Genus eleven,
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Speaker 2: Genesis eleven and the Tower of Babel and how God said,
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Speaker 2: if there's one unifying language, that nothing will be impossible
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Speaker 2: for them, and what our official intelligence is doing. When
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Speaker 2: you have these super supercomputers that are communicating with each
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Speaker 2: other from around the world, and these chatbots are able
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Speaker 2: to speak without a language, but they're just speaking directly
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Speaker 2: into the algorithm. It is the recreation of the Tower
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Speaker 2: of Babel, where nothing is impossible. And then when that
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Speaker 2: nothing is impossible is being created by men who don't
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Speaker 2: follow Christ, and they are the enemies of Christ, it
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Speaker 2: is only going to draw people into mass deception. There
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Speaker 2: was a video that came out about two months ago
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Speaker 2: of Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise doing a fight scene
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Speaker 2: on a roof. Looked as real as we were sitting
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Speaker 2: in a movie or brending a blockbuster or whatever, and
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Speaker 2: that was all completely generated with AA and the algorithms,
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Speaker 2: and the power of this technology is only going to increase.
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Speaker 2: They just said this week that the plans for SpaceX
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Speaker 2: to begin to launch AI into space, which is going
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Speaker 2: to solve that the cooling issue for so these computers
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Speaker 2: can get stronger. That is going to be moving ahead
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Speaker 2: in the next year, and so things are not slowing down.
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Speaker 2: And this is the hour man for the church to
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Speaker 2: wake up and to realize that there's never been this
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Speaker 2: powerful of the technology originated by such evil people that's
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Speaker 2: impacting every single human. It is the tool that is
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Speaker 2: going to be used for the great deception in Matthew
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Speaker 2: twenty four and how people are going to be mass
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Speaker 2: deceived based on what can be created.
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Speaker 1: At the same time, you believe we're heading into a
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Speaker 1: spiritual awakening right now. You believe something's going on. You know,
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Speaker 1: God is moving. I don't know how you would absolutely
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Speaker 1: describe that. Tell what are your thoughts on that this is?
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Speaker 1: Because it seems to me that God is moving? What
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Speaker 1: do you think?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I get deeper into this in my book
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Speaker 2: around the Fourth Turning and Pendulum Theory. Every eighty to
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Speaker 2: ninety years there is a major awakening or a move
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Speaker 2: of God that takes place in our world. And part
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Speaker 2: of that is that there's this phrase that says hard
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Speaker 2: times creates strong men. Strong men create good times, good
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Speaker 2: times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.
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Speaker 2: And it's in those moments every eighty to ninety years
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Speaker 2: where you see a move of God. Eighty to ninety
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Speaker 2: years ago you had World War Two, where there was
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Speaker 2: the greatest missions movement in the history of the world
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Speaker 2: from World War Two veterans coming home and then going
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Speaker 2: to the mission field. Eighty to ninety years before that,
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Speaker 2: you have the Civil War, which was the emancipation of
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Speaker 2: over four million slaves being freed. Eighty to ninety years
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Speaker 2: before that, you have the Great Awakening with George Whitfield
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Speaker 2: and over fifty thousand, which would be equal to fifty
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Speaker 2: million people coming to Christ here in America. And so
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Speaker 2: I believe without question, Michael, that wherever you see the
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Speaker 2: greatest evil and the potential for the times of the
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Speaker 2: greatest evil, it is the time for the anointing and
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Speaker 2: the greatest good to be met with that. And so
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Speaker 2: as we enter into this time of great deception, the
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Speaker 2: church men and women of God who walk with the
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Speaker 2: Spirit of God can begin to get excited because it
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Speaker 2: means that the power of God is going to meet
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Speaker 2: that moment.
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Speaker 1: Let's now transition to the to the military's use of this,
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Speaker 1: because that's that's something you are particularly concerned at, and
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Speaker 1: not concerned to because you're have a background in military
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Speaker 1: and you have military ministry as well. The Pentagon has
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Speaker 1: mandated AI integration across military branches. What are your concerns? Secondly,
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Speaker 1: what does that even mean integration across the military branches,
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Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people might not know
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Speaker 1: the depths of that. I don't even know if we do.
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Speaker 1: Tell me what you know about that and how they
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Speaker 1: how the military's got to use it? And secondly, what
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Speaker 1: are your concerns.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, again, it's a tool, not a guide, and never
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Speaker 2: a relationship. AI was used to help plan the raid
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Speaker 2: in Venezuela to get Maduro and that is a win, right.
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Speaker 2: We just use Claude to hack every system in NSA
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Speaker 2: and that was a controlled This is how powerful these
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Speaker 2: systems are. And I've spoken with power company CEOs throughout
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Speaker 2: America that have said they receive over a million hack
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Speaker 2: attacks from China on a weekly basis. And so we
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Speaker 2: have a very real adversary in China that's attacking us regularly.
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Speaker 2: And if we can be the leaders with these technologies,
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Speaker 2: we can be on the forefront and creating safeguards in
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Speaker 2: so that we can stay ahead of how China and
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Speaker 2: North Korea and Russia could use these in extremely devious ways.
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Speaker 2: So that's a win, that's a tool. AI is not
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Speaker 2: going away. This is happening. And so now let's get
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Speaker 2: into the actual people that are in the ranks. So
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Speaker 2: about seventy percent of our military is made up of
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Speaker 2: ages eighteen to twenty six, and so that's gen Z
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Speaker 2: making up the majority of our military. And gen Z
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Speaker 2: is the most faithless generation that our country has ever seen.
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Speaker 2: When it comes to having a biblical worldview, that's a
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Speaker 2: massive issue. Only three percent of gen Z fully believes
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Speaker 2: without question that God's word is the inherent word of God.
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Speaker 2: God breathes without question, and then there's a lot of
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Speaker 2: questioning in there in the other ninety seven percent. And
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Speaker 2: so when you have it in a rank, that's a
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Speaker 2: big deal. And then when it comes to the proliferation
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Speaker 2: of the smartphone, of artificial intelligence, of these technologies, you
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Speaker 2: have young people that are spending about six hours a
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Speaker 2: day on social media, they are working jobs, and then
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Speaker 2: now you're introducing AI into their day to day operations.
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Speaker 2: It's too much technology for the brain. And that is
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Speaker 2: my concern for our everyday active duty personnel.
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Speaker 1: Is there a concern that this could be used as
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Speaker 1: counseling for personnel in the military. I mean, is that
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Speaker 1: something that might happen.
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Speaker 2: I think it's going to happen. It's already happening. It's
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Speaker 2: what they're doing. They're seeking it out. And I'm not
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Speaker 2: saying the military is going to mandate a discounseling. I'm
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Speaker 2: saying young people are turning to it for counseling. They're
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Speaker 2: turning to it for spiritual advice, emotional advice, and it's
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Speaker 2: not going to meet the need. The human body is
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Speaker 2: built off of attachment. Ages zero to six, we are
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Speaker 2: just one to I know that we are loved and
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Speaker 2: that we belong. That is at the core of every
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Speaker 2: human being. And then if we don't get those needs
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Speaker 2: met from age zero to six, we spend the rest
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Speaker 2: of our life seeking for anything that can fill that
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Speaker 2: part of the soul so that we can feel loved
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Speaker 2: and that we belong. And so when you have a
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Speaker 2: group of young people that have had those issues from
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Speaker 2: zero six and now they're turning into technology, they're never
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Speaker 2: going to get the attachment that they truly are longing for.
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Speaker 2: And that's where we need to be mindful for it
15:25
Speaker 2: as we enter into this new age of AI, which
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Speaker 2: is all in my book.
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Speaker 1: I think for those who might be questioning what you're
15:31
Speaker 1: saying here, the anxiety rates and depression rates have skyrocketed
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Speaker 1: since the invention of social media and smart bones. And
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Speaker 1: there's a reason I'm believe that. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So, from twenty ten to twenty fifteen was the advancement smartphone.
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Speaker 2: In twenty twelve was the release of the of the selfie,
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Speaker 2: and in that time, youth suicide increased by two hundred
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Speaker 2: and eighty percent.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a reason I believe that all of
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Speaker 1: a sudden, a new invention is going to make it
15:55
Speaker 1: even better, it's going to make it worse. I think
15:57
Speaker 1: that's what you're saying, and that's what I think you're
15:59
Speaker 1: right about that. Finally, let's close by discussing your goal
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Speaker 1: with this book. I believe you want the guests get
16:05
Speaker 1: this in the hands of military personnel across the globe.
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Speaker 2: Tell me why, because our military is the defenders of
16:14
Speaker 2: freedom and the greatest country in the world. And the
16:17
Speaker 2: evidence only shows that as we did the Maduro raid,
16:20
Speaker 2: they were flat out like their technology was Russian and
16:25
Speaker 2: Chinese technology and we were able to supersede it without question.
16:29
Speaker 2: And right now I think China is kicking themselves that
16:32
Speaker 2: they didn't attack and take Taiwan when Biden was in office,
16:37
Speaker 2: because now our military has never been stronger. And so
16:40
Speaker 2: when you have a military that is this powerful, when
16:43
Speaker 2: you have a navy that is seven times more powerful
16:45
Speaker 2: than all the other navies in the world combined, and
16:48
Speaker 2: you have the special operations capabilities that has done what
16:51
Speaker 2: we've done in the last few months, in the last
16:52
Speaker 2: couple of years, it's pretty incredible. And with great power
16:56
Speaker 2: comes great responsibility, and AI is becoming at the forefront
16:59
Speaker 2: of how our warfighters are doing life and doing their missions.
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Speaker 2: And so that's why I want everyone to pre order
17:05
Speaker 2: a copy of this book, because every copy we get
17:07
Speaker 2: and that we sell, the money doesn't go in my pocket,
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Speaker 2: It goes right back into the ministry and we're able
17:11
Speaker 2: to put a copy into the hands of a soldier, sailor, airmen,
17:15
Speaker 2: or a marine. Our ministry has led over eight thousand sailors, airmen,
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Speaker 2: marines and soldiers to christ in the last three years.
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Speaker 2: God's doing an incredible work in the military. Through Engage
17:25
Speaker 2: Your Destiny and through this book and so by supporting it,
17:28
Speaker 2: you're supporting that great work the Defenders of Freedom.
17:31
Speaker 1: And just to reiterate here, this is a this is
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Speaker 1: a book that can be used for a military personnel.
17:35
Speaker 1: They would enjoy it and probably get a lot out
17:37
Speaker 1: of it. But this is a general interest book. This
17:38
Speaker 1: is for everybody, including the Body of Christ. Correct absolutely, yeah, yeah.
17:43
Speaker 1: And the website, I believe is when intelligence is at
17:48
Speaker 1: human dot com and people can find out that more
17:51
Speaker 1: information on Amazon, where they can of course order it.
17:54
Speaker 1: Then great talking to you. Thanks so much, Thanks Michael.
18:00
Speaker 1: If you enjoy today's interview, please make sure to subscribe
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