Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Cardinals catching tandem: Splitting playing time between Iván Herrera and Pedro Pagés

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Cardinals catching tandem: Splitting playing time between Iván Herrera and Pedro Pagés · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Coming at you live from Boston, Massachusetts, the first road
0:08
Speaker 1: trip of the year for the Saint Louis Cardinals. I'm
0:11
Speaker 1: Katie wo he's Bernie Michelas. Welcome back to Cardinal territory. Bernie.
0:16
Speaker 1: What homestand I thought it was great?
0:19
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you know, after the sweeping the Twins,
0:23
Speaker 2: you're thinking two tough losses. Oh my gosh, so they're
0:27
Speaker 2: gonna get swept by the Angels. But that was that
0:31
Speaker 2: was a great Gamelet yes, sir, I mean it was
0:33
Speaker 2: a wild, wild game Wednesday, and once again, I you know,
0:38
Speaker 2: we see a lot of energy and a lot of
0:41
Speaker 2: resolve and a lot of i'll use a corny expression,
0:46
Speaker 2: a lot of fighting spirit from these Redbirds so far
0:49
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five. I mean, they're a really entertaining
0:52
Speaker 2: team to watch. And bottom line, four and two homestand
0:55
Speaker 2: you'll take.
0:55
Speaker 1: It right, Oh absolutely. I mean the one thing that
0:59
Speaker 1: we said could not happened almost did. We said the
1:01
Speaker 1: worst thing the Cardinals could do sweep the Twins and
1:03
Speaker 1: then get swept by the Angels. But they avoided that.
1:06
Speaker 1: They went four and two on the homestand played six
1:09
Speaker 1: very competitive baseball games. I know you'd probably want at
1:11
Speaker 1: least one of those in extras, but you know, I
1:14
Speaker 1: think they'll gladly take four and two. And they had
1:15
Speaker 1: a plus seventeen run differential. I don't think I've seen that.
1:18
Speaker 1: I don't think I've seen a positive run differential with
1:20
Speaker 1: this club in probably the last eighteen months. So I'm
1:23
Speaker 1: with you. I thought the competitive spirit, if you will,
1:26
Speaker 1: from the Cardinals offense specifically was so encouraging. And this
1:30
Speaker 1: is something that Ollie Marmel talked about postgame with us.
1:32
Speaker 1: You know, I asked him, with your homestand thoughts, what
1:36
Speaker 1: was your big takeaway, and he was like, I just
1:38
Speaker 1: liked how aggressive we were. I thought the way that
1:40
Speaker 1: we're playing the game is a good way to play it.
1:43
Speaker 1: And I thought, overall base where we thought this team
1:46
Speaker 1: was heading into the season. Going four and two to
1:49
Speaker 1: start the year and scoring forty two runs in six games,
1:53
Speaker 1: that'll do it. And plus seventeen run differential, by the way,
1:56
Speaker 1: is the fourth best in baseball. So not too shabby
1:59
Speaker 1: for these Cards to start the year.
2:00
Speaker 2: Not at all. Again, I feel like I always have
2:04
Speaker 2: to preface everything at this stage of the season by saying,
2:10
Speaker 2: I know it's early, but you know, listen, everyone that
2:15
Speaker 2: follows this team, who loves this team, media, who covers
2:18
Speaker 2: the team. The one thing I think we were all
2:22
Speaker 2: looking at at the beginning is, you know, would this
2:25
Speaker 2: offense come out of the gate and give us some
2:27
Speaker 2: evidence that maybe they're better than last year. And again,
2:30
Speaker 2: it's only six games, I know that, but they left town,
2:36
Speaker 2: you know, with an average seven runs per game. Only
2:39
Speaker 2: the Yankees have scored a higher average per game than
2:42
Speaker 2: the Cardinals so far. And I know it's only six games,
2:46
Speaker 2: but like I kind of tend to say, they're the
2:49
Speaker 2: only six games we have to work with, So that's
2:52
Speaker 2: we're just saying what's happened in the first six games.
2:55
Speaker 2: And they have the number two run scoring offense so
2:57
Speaker 2: far the Majors.
2:58
Speaker 1: Long season, long season, but early returns are pretty good.
3:02
Speaker 1: What I really liked about this Cardinals team was the
3:06
Speaker 1: quality of bats. I think we're almost exactly the same
3:09
Speaker 1: as Minnesota. And I thought Wednesday's game, we'll get to
3:12
Speaker 1: Von Herrera. The Yvon Herrera game when I had no
3:16
Speaker 1: issue with Allie Marmal keeping Sonny Gray in that spot
3:19
Speaker 1: there with the bases loaded. There, he's your ace. If
3:22
Speaker 1: you don't trust him in that spot to get that
3:25
Speaker 1: to get that out, then y Si race. I think
3:27
Speaker 1: Sonny would like that pitch back. Something tells me that
3:30
Speaker 1: a sinker should not be letter high to Logan o'happy.
3:33
Speaker 1: And it's really disappointing because outside of that, he pitched
3:35
Speaker 1: really well. I mean, the grand Slam is ultimately going
3:38
Speaker 1: to mess up the line, but the Villa was more consistent.
3:41
Speaker 1: He had nine punches. He looked more like Sunny Gray.
3:44
Speaker 1: But that can be really deflating to a team when
3:46
Speaker 1: you go and you take the lead, it's three to one,
3:48
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, your ace serves up a Grand
3:49
Speaker 1: Slam lead change late in the game, and the very
3:53
Speaker 1: next half inning they're all tied up again. And that's
3:56
Speaker 1: something that I don't think would have happened in the
3:58
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. This offense.
4:01
Speaker 2: No, you know, that's a theme and I agree with it.
4:03
Speaker 2: I've heard some of my friends in the media, like yourself,
4:06
Speaker 2: but also some fans that I correspond with this. Oh,
4:09
Speaker 2: I mean, in no way, the Cardinals after that Grand Slam,
4:13
Speaker 2: it was just like whoa, you know, no way they
4:15
Speaker 2: rebound from that. Now, look, technically we could go back
4:19
Speaker 2: the last couple of years and find some big comebacks. Okay,
4:21
Speaker 2: but that's really not the point. That's really not the
4:24
Speaker 2: point what they did last last yesterday and when they
4:29
Speaker 2: were down five to three all of a sudden, and
4:31
Speaker 2: then uh then they come back and tie it. Then
4:35
Speaker 2: they then they just go nuts with that ambush in
4:37
Speaker 2: the eighth innings to me, to me, it just kind
4:41
Speaker 2: of reflected their whole mentality there, as you said, as
4:44
Speaker 2: Ali said, the aggressiveness. I mean there, they just don't
4:49
Speaker 2: back off for a moment. They do not allow themselves
4:52
Speaker 2: to be demoralized down in the dumps. Uh maybe distracted
4:57
Speaker 2: because okay, what do we do now? I mean, they
4:59
Speaker 2: just go right at your throat again. I mean they're
5:02
Speaker 2: really That's what that represented to me, and I think
5:05
Speaker 2: that's what we all mean when we say I don't
5:08
Speaker 2: think the twenty fourteen does this right, not with that
5:13
Speaker 2: temperament that they showed in this game yesterday, but also
5:17
Speaker 2: the first six games overall. I mean those extra inning
5:22
Speaker 2: games were Donnie Brooks. I mean, yeah, they came out
5:26
Speaker 2: on the losing end, but I mean no one could
5:28
Speaker 2: question whether they fought the entire way. I mean they
5:33
Speaker 2: fought and fought and fought, and it's a really encouraging
5:37
Speaker 2: sign for the Cardinals and their fans to kind of
5:40
Speaker 2: see this team so so fired up and hungry in
5:45
Speaker 2: everything that they do. I mean, it's really cool.
5:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have some confidence in there. They have a
5:50
Speaker 1: little bit of swagger. I like when Allie said that
5:52
Speaker 1: each inning is like its own game. They have a
5:55
Speaker 1: quick memory, they're resilient, they're aggressive, and they have a
5:58
Speaker 1: little bit of fu to them. And I really like that.
6:01
Speaker 1: And you see it. They get punched in the mouth
6:03
Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, we'll swing too, We'll fight back.
6:05
Speaker 1: I loved the eighth inning. I loved how they set
6:09
Speaker 1: that up. Jordan Walker. Great series by Jordan Walker's through
6:13
Speaker 1: and through. I really like where he's at. I know
6:15
Speaker 1: he's probably on the ground still a little bit more
6:17
Speaker 1: than the team would like, but I don't care. The
6:20
Speaker 1: early returns, specifically with pitch selection and the overall quality
6:23
Speaker 1: of bats are much better. But he singles and then
6:26
Speaker 1: you see Victor Scott lay down the most beautiful bun
6:28
Speaker 1: I've ever seen, and Bason Wind follows up and does
6:31
Speaker 1: the same thing, and all of a sudden you're seeing
6:33
Speaker 1: this small ball in action, and I love those. I
6:35
Speaker 1: love that strategy from them to load the bases. There
6:38
Speaker 1: new Bar gets out, that's fine. It's like he gets out.
6:40
Speaker 1: He's reached base sixteen out of thirty times. That's our
6:44
Speaker 1: later in the show segment, and then you have Contrarasts
6:47
Speaker 1: work a walk, Burleson work a walk, and I love
6:49
Speaker 1: the bat from Nolan Arnado where he just stays with
6:52
Speaker 1: the pitch, punches it to the right center side, scores
6:54
Speaker 1: two runs, not trying to get too big swing is
6:56
Speaker 1: nice and compact, and then of course Herrera sets it
6:59
Speaker 1: up with the big last. But to me, that einighth
7:01
Speaker 1: inning on Wednesday's game was kind of a microcosm of
7:03
Speaker 1: how this offense can work. You have guys that can hit,
7:06
Speaker 1: and you have guys that can slug, and then you
7:08
Speaker 1: have the speed dynamic with with Victor and Mason, now
7:11
Speaker 1: that you know Mason's finally got a batting average. I
7:14
Speaker 1: just really liked how that entire eighth inning unfolded. And
7:17
Speaker 1: obviously an offense is not going to score seven or
7:20
Speaker 1: seven runs in inning, but for the Cardinals to do
7:23
Speaker 1: that after a pre gut wrenching Grand slammed an inning
7:26
Speaker 1: and a half prior. I think it's a good sign
7:29
Speaker 1: all around for where the offense is that and I'm
7:30
Speaker 1: excited to see how it plays here in Boston.
7:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And you know, and the thing that was
7:35
Speaker 2: they're poison last year, you know, failure with rugs in
7:39
Speaker 2: scoring position was really strong on this home stand. I
7:41
Speaker 2: think two ninety four average. Let me see real quick,
7:44
Speaker 2: two ninety four average, fifth best in the majors so
7:47
Speaker 2: far with a five fifteen slug And as you know,
7:51
Speaker 2: they did the slug at all and OURISP situations last year.
7:55
Speaker 2: So yeah, they're ops r RSP so far, third in
8:00
Speaker 2: the majors. So again, early, early, early, But you just
8:04
Speaker 2: wanted to see, like I said, sorry, you know, you
8:07
Speaker 2: just wanted to see a sign that, okay, okay, that
8:10
Speaker 2: this could be better this year. They're not kind of
8:13
Speaker 2: the same old Cardinals now. They just have to prove
8:16
Speaker 2: it over a long period of time. That's the beauty
8:18
Speaker 2: and the curse of baseball, you know, one hundred and
8:20
Speaker 2: sixty two. The truth shall be revealed.
8:25
Speaker 1: Yes, yes it should. And I think the Cardinals have
8:28
Speaker 1: a good test on Friday against Walker Buehler. They do
8:31
Speaker 1: not see the newly extended Garrett Crochet. They will see
8:34
Speaker 1: Paul Skeens on Tuesday in Pittsburgh, but they got to
8:38
Speaker 1: get through Boston first. And I still think that there's
8:40
Speaker 1: a lot to unpack about where this roster is at.
8:43
Speaker 1: It's crazy. The second I start this podcast, my phone
8:46
Speaker 1: does not stop bringing despite having zero No one wanted
8:49
Speaker 1: anything for me the second until I started it. Okay, restarting,
8:53
Speaker 1: let me get back on track. There's a lot to
8:54
Speaker 1: break down with this roster and how it works. And
8:56
Speaker 1: we saw a little bit of how Ollie Marmel is
8:58
Speaker 1: going to use a variety of different players, but I
9:02
Speaker 1: think the catching tandem specifically is very interesting. But before
9:07
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10:12
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10:15
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10:20
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about the catchers for the same Louis
10:23
Speaker 1: Cardinals Bernier the spoiler alert for you Athletics subscribers. This
10:26
Speaker 1: is the topic that's on the site of Friday. I
10:28
Speaker 1: actually was planning on writing about this during Wednesday's game,
10:30
Speaker 1: but a certain catcher decided to hit three home runs
10:32
Speaker 1: and kind of change the strategy on me. Van Herrera
10:36
Speaker 1: Pedro Pajas. We knew coming into the season the Cardinals
10:38
Speaker 1: weren't necessarily going to designate a starting catcher, if you will,
10:42
Speaker 1: that they would use them more of a tandem. And
10:44
Speaker 1: I was kind of under the impression that that tandem
10:46
Speaker 1: would be on a game by game basis. Turns out
10:48
Speaker 1: it's more of an inning by inning basis based on
10:51
Speaker 1: where the Cardinals are at in their lineup and where
10:53
Speaker 1: the opposing team is in their lineup. Now, let's break
10:56
Speaker 1: it down. These are two different catchers, right. Yvon Herrera
10:59
Speaker 1: for Sky obviously can slug. We saw that yesterday, first
11:03
Speaker 1: catcher in franchise history to hit three home runs in
11:06
Speaker 1: one game. That's a really impressive stat and it was
11:09
Speaker 1: funny talking to Yvonne after the game, he actually decided
11:14
Speaker 1: he thought that, you know, he he'd put eight balls
11:16
Speaker 1: in play coming into Wednesday, and only one of those
11:19
Speaker 1: balls was registered as a true pull like pull ball.
11:22
Speaker 1: And he's a poll hitter. He said, my bat felt heavy.
11:24
Speaker 1: I wasn't getting it around enough. Everything was going middle.
11:26
Speaker 1: I wanted to make a change. So he went up
11:29
Speaker 1: to Brendan Donovan, whose locker is just a couple a
11:31
Speaker 1: couple of spots a la. He said, Hey, hey, do
11:33
Speaker 1: you cand I borrow a bat?
11:34
Speaker 2: Uh?
11:34
Speaker 1: He used Donnie's bat for all three of those homers.
11:37
Speaker 1: Donnie's bats lighter, longer, and more dense. It's not necessarily
11:40
Speaker 1: a torpedo bat, but it's a similar kind of style.
11:43
Speaker 1: It was made specifically for him, and now he's not
11:47
Speaker 1: getting that bat back. Don He was like, I think
11:49
Speaker 1: I deserve at least like a credit for one of
11:51
Speaker 1: those homers. Can I have one of those on my line?
11:53
Speaker 1: So great game for von Herrera. Saw exactly why the
11:56
Speaker 1: Cardinals are so high on him.
11:57
Speaker 2: There.
11:58
Speaker 1: He can hit. He's one of the best pure hit
12:00
Speaker 1: on the roster. The defensive shortcomings are there. We know
12:03
Speaker 1: about the run game. He threw out just four out
12:06
Speaker 1: of fifty nine stolen base attempts last season. He's zero
12:09
Speaker 1: for five to start the year. It's getting better, but
12:13
Speaker 1: it's clear that it's a disadvantage for the Cardinals because
12:16
Speaker 1: if you have anyone with speed reach base, they're gonna
12:19
Speaker 1: take the extra ninety. The framing is better, the receiving
12:22
Speaker 1: is better, the blocking is better. He's made a lot
12:24
Speaker 1: of strides there. He's worked really hard, and this is
12:26
Speaker 1: something that both he and Oli Marmle have talked about extensively.
12:29
Speaker 1: The work ethic is there, the effort is there, the
12:32
Speaker 1: arm is not. So that's Herrera's shortcoming. Pedro Paz He's
12:36
Speaker 1: a serviceable backup catcher. He does not have the hit
12:39
Speaker 1: tool like Herrera, but he I think is an overall
12:41
Speaker 1: defensively better option, specifically with the run game. He doesn't
12:45
Speaker 1: have a cannon necessarily, but he can throw runners out
12:47
Speaker 1: and he game plans really well. So we've seen oli
12:50
Speaker 1: Marble divide it like this. You'll see Pedro get a
12:52
Speaker 1: start every now and then, but mostly especially against lefties,
12:56
Speaker 1: you're gonna want Herrera's bat in the lineup, and it
13:00
Speaker 1: comes down to the later innings when it's time to
13:03
Speaker 1: defensive a replace Page or defensively replace Herera, excuse me,
13:06
Speaker 1: and Pedro comes in the game. There's so much that
13:09
Speaker 1: Ollie marml is weighing here. He's waying where the Cardinals
13:12
Speaker 1: are at in their lineup. He's weighing the other team's
13:15
Speaker 1: lineup if they have speed or not. And he's also
13:17
Speaker 1: waighing if he subs in Pedro. Is Herrera's spot going
13:20
Speaker 1: to come back in the order during a pivotal scoring
13:22
Speaker 1: opportunity where you'd rather have Herrera's bat than Paz's bat,
13:26
Speaker 1: and we saw that on Monday. Monday, the Angels are
13:30
Speaker 1: much faster than the Twins, So I thought we saw
13:32
Speaker 1: the typical standard defensive substitutions, and the ninth inning, with
13:36
Speaker 1: the lead, Herrera's spot's not coming up, it's safe to
13:38
Speaker 1: put Pedro in there for defensive purposes. That makes sense,
13:40
Speaker 1: and I think the casual fan gets that. We don't
13:42
Speaker 1: need to explain that. But on Monday, the Angels have speed.
13:47
Speaker 1: From their seventh hitter to their three hitter, all those
13:50
Speaker 1: guys can take a bag and with the Cardinals tied
13:54
Speaker 1: or the Cardinals leading by one of that point, excuse me,
13:57
Speaker 1: Allie felt like the seventh he had to protect the lead,
14:00
Speaker 1: so he takes Herrera out, He puts Pedro in the game,
14:03
Speaker 1: Angels tie it up, ninth inning, two on to out.
14:07
Speaker 1: Whose spot comes up in the order Herrera's accept it's Pedro's.
14:11
Speaker 1: And this is not to say Pedro can't hit. He
14:13
Speaker 1: obviously can, but it's not the hitter that you want
14:15
Speaker 1: in that spot. Game remains tired, they go to extras,
14:18
Speaker 1: they lose the game. That's what Ollie Marvel is juggling there,
14:21
Speaker 1: and it just seems like it's a you know, pick
14:23
Speaker 1: your poison situation. We asked Ali after the game what
14:27
Speaker 1: needs to change with his cashing equation? And I'll give
14:29
Speaker 1: him credit, he said, I'm trying to be as honest
14:32
Speaker 1: as possible. I don't know. It's a really tough decision
14:36
Speaker 1: every single time. Bernie, what do you think about this
14:38
Speaker 1: catching dynamic and can the Cardinals find a way to
14:40
Speaker 1: make it work?
14:42
Speaker 2: Well? I think they can. It's a challenge, as you
14:45
Speaker 2: just conveyed. I like the way he's thinking about this.
14:50
Speaker 2: I don't have any problem with his philosophy on this,
14:53
Speaker 2: because Herrera just can't throw anybody out and listen, we're
15:00
Speaker 2: supposed to be objective and all that. But I root
15:02
Speaker 2: for that guy because he's an exciting player, he's a
15:05
Speaker 2: good guy, and he can give him the kind of
15:08
Speaker 2: catcher offense they haven't had, you know, for ages, maybe
15:13
Speaker 2: maybe Yadier Molina's peak years, which were really good offensively.
15:17
Speaker 2: But what will happened with the strategy? Even though I
15:21
Speaker 2: think the principle of this strategy is sound, the risk
15:25
Speaker 2: is that it will on occasion backfire, Like you explained
15:29
Speaker 2: Monday night, I had a chance of visiting with Ali
15:33
Speaker 2: on Tuesday, he does a weekly weekly half hour with
15:36
Speaker 2: us on cam Wax and I he just said, well,
15:39
Speaker 2: what would you have done? And I said I would
15:41
Speaker 2: have I would have done the same thing. I think
15:43
Speaker 2: you're thinking was sound. It doesn't mean it's just like
15:46
Speaker 2: all managers will tell you. Tony Lewis would tell this,
15:49
Speaker 2: you know a lot of stuff. And he wasn't just
15:50
Speaker 2: trying to cover his rear end either. He said, you know,
15:53
Speaker 2: sometimes you make the right decisions but they go bad,
15:56
Speaker 2: and sometimes you may screw something up in a game,
15:59
Speaker 2: but it'll end up working for you. You know, there's
16:01
Speaker 2: no way to predict this stuff. Uh. I think he's
16:04
Speaker 2: trying to do the best that he can. I was
16:08
Speaker 2: at the mindset you just got to start her era
16:10
Speaker 2: and you know you got to make sure he gets
16:12
Speaker 2: a lot of at bats. But you just you just
16:15
Speaker 2: offered an important distinction. This isn't a choosing like one
16:19
Speaker 2: over the other as the primary starting catcher. But we uh,
16:24
Speaker 2: pedro pahes we all we all associate the word closer
16:30
Speaker 2: with relief pictures. He's a he's the closer at catcher
16:33
Speaker 2: if they have a lead. Yeah, go ahead and put
16:37
Speaker 2: that out of your story. Don't. You don't have to credit,
16:41
Speaker 2: you don't need my help. You're brilliant. But anyway, the no,
16:45
Speaker 2: you know, I was thinking about that. It's like, well,
16:47
Speaker 2: look at uh, look at Pa Hayes. If they have
16:50
Speaker 2: a one run lead and they they're they're scared of
16:53
Speaker 2: stolen bases and all that stuff, one run to a
16:55
Speaker 2: save situation. I'm bagging to my microphone. I'm sorry, I
16:59
Speaker 2: get up so early now to do all this work.
17:01
Speaker 2: I love it, though, Anyway.
17:02
Speaker 1: I could never do what you do. I know that.
17:04
Speaker 2: So so think of I'm going to start thinking of
17:08
Speaker 2: Pa Hayes as Ryan Helsley, right like, so.
17:14
Speaker 1: This makes sense, though, it does.
17:16
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not a perfect analogy, but I think
17:19
Speaker 2: it's a pretty damn good one. Right So, But I
17:23
Speaker 2: think if we all agreed that on principle, there's a
17:26
Speaker 2: lot of merit to what Ali's trying to do. But
17:29
Speaker 2: we got to be adults here and recognize sometimes it
17:32
Speaker 2: will blow up on you. You know, I don't think
17:35
Speaker 2: Ali thought that game would go and why would he
17:37
Speaker 2: things appear to be in good shape. Why would he
17:39
Speaker 2: think that, you know, he didn't think. He didn't think
17:42
Speaker 2: her era would come back. Up to the plate. He
17:44
Speaker 2: was he made the final out of the sixth inning
17:46
Speaker 2: Monday night, right, and so so you're like, well, he's
17:49
Speaker 2: not going to come up again anytime soon. And as
17:52
Speaker 2: it turned out, because it went into extras, you know,
17:54
Speaker 2: pa Haes got two at bats maybe maybe instead of one,
17:58
Speaker 2: and the one, as you pointed out, was in a
17:59
Speaker 2: really critical situation. But you know, part of me thinks, well,
18:03
Speaker 2: a guy that hits like that, never take him out
18:05
Speaker 2: of a game. But I think that's perhaps a little
18:08
Speaker 2: too you know, and it's coming off in three home
18:13
Speaker 2: run games. So it's easy to say that, and I'm
18:15
Speaker 2: a Herrera fan, but it's just I don't think it's
18:20
Speaker 2: that simple because his throwing is such a liability. I
18:24
Speaker 2: asked Ali the other day directly in his hit with us,
18:29
Speaker 2: I said, listen, h I cited the throwout rates, which
18:34
Speaker 2: are horrible, and I said, you know, and he threw
18:37
Speaker 2: I said, Ali, the last two times he tried to
18:39
Speaker 2: throw somebody out there were lollipops. They were just you know,
18:42
Speaker 2: air balloons. I said, does he have a future as
18:45
Speaker 2: a major league catcher with this kind of problem? Like, seriously,
18:50
Speaker 2: can he continue to be a major league catcher, and
18:53
Speaker 2: Ali gave it the You know, I'm not saying he
18:55
Speaker 2: gave a phony answer, but he gave a diploma. He said, hey, listen,
18:58
Speaker 2: we're working really hard with him on this, and he's
19:01
Speaker 2: really working hard on this, so we got to give
19:03
Speaker 2: this some time. I don't think it was a cop
19:05
Speaker 2: out answer. I think it's the correct answer. But I
19:08
Speaker 2: still wonder, what about you. I still wonder if it
19:12
Speaker 2: doesn't get better, are they going to have to think
19:15
Speaker 2: about a positions switch? And the problem, of course is
19:19
Speaker 2: the Cardinals have log jams all over the place, so
19:22
Speaker 2: easier said than dub What do you think about that?
19:24
Speaker 2: Do you think he's You think eventually he just can't
19:27
Speaker 2: be the catcher, but you have to get his bat
19:29
Speaker 2: in the lineup.
19:31
Speaker 1: I mean, I think this is the year to figure
19:32
Speaker 1: it out. This is the whole point of the twenty
19:34
Speaker 1: twenty five transition season, if you will. And maybe it's
19:37
Speaker 1: not the reset, is it not the extent that we
19:40
Speaker 1: thought right, But this is the year where you can
19:43
Speaker 1: be patient, and you can afford to be patient with
19:45
Speaker 1: players like Carrera and develop them at the major league level.
19:47
Speaker 1: I think this is actually the perfect example of how
19:50
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five season is different than season's prior seasons.
19:53
Speaker 1: Prior Krara can't throw a runner out. He's on the bench.
19:55
Speaker 1: We saw that last year. This year to credit of
19:58
Speaker 1: both parties working so hard with him, and he works tirelessly.
20:03
Speaker 1: You hear teammates talk about it all the time, like, look,
20:06
Speaker 1: it's not a knock on his work ethic. He just
20:09
Speaker 1: needs some extra work here, and they're creative with it.
20:12
Speaker 1: They are trying a new thing with him that they
20:15
Speaker 1: started working in spring training where his setup when he's
20:18
Speaker 1: throwing down a second is no longer standing up, it's
20:20
Speaker 1: from his knee. Allie said that his arm slot's a
20:23
Speaker 1: little bit better, it's a little bit quicker. They're working
20:25
Speaker 1: on arm strength. Herrara spent weeks in Tampa over the
20:27
Speaker 1: off season at Driveline working on arm strength, similar to
20:30
Speaker 1: how pitchers build up. So this is the year where
20:33
Speaker 1: you can afford to be patient with your guys and see,
20:36
Speaker 1: you know, can he developed at the big leagues where
20:38
Speaker 1: he does have a league average arm or at least
20:41
Speaker 1: can throw some runners out. There's no rush to figure
20:45
Speaker 1: it out. So I agree with Allie, they do have
20:47
Speaker 1: to be patient here and they have the luxury to
20:49
Speaker 1: be able to be patient. Here they have the closer,
20:52
Speaker 1: if you will, with Pedro Paul Has. I really like that.
20:54
Speaker 1: I think that's a spot on analogy actually, where he
20:58
Speaker 1: can come in and close out the game where you
21:01
Speaker 1: need to win games. But if you need to give
21:03
Speaker 1: Perreira seven eight Indians to see what he can do
21:05
Speaker 1: and they're running on you, I'm sure pitchers aren't going
21:07
Speaker 1: to love that, but I can understand why the organization
21:10
Speaker 1: is like, we need to see what we have, we
21:12
Speaker 1: need to give him a shot, we need to let
21:13
Speaker 1: him try, and we're going to give everything that we
21:16
Speaker 1: have to work with him as well. So I really
21:18
Speaker 1: have no issue with the way that this pitching or
21:21
Speaker 1: this catching time is being split. We'll still see Pedro
21:23
Speaker 1: start every now and then, and I don't want this
21:25
Speaker 1: to come across as like I'm out on Pedro Pajaz.
21:28
Speaker 1: I'm not. I think he has a valuable role with
21:30
Speaker 1: this club. I think he's a better hitter than maybe
21:32
Speaker 1: what people think he is. I think all he thinks
21:35
Speaker 1: that as well. In fact, he's said that and his
21:38
Speaker 1: game plan and his preparation. I mean I was talking
21:40
Speaker 1: to him earlier in the week, and he said, you know,
21:43
Speaker 1: Allie and Daniel Discalso are so good at letting me
21:45
Speaker 1: know like what I'm looking at and what part of
21:47
Speaker 1: the lineup. So I'm following the game so I know
21:50
Speaker 1: exactly when to go prepare. He said, on Monday, I
21:52
Speaker 1: had a feeling just where the Angels were in their
21:55
Speaker 1: lineup when I'd be coming in, So Descalsa came up
21:58
Speaker 1: to me and said, hey, you're coming in after the six.
22:00
Speaker 1: I already knew that. I was already ready to go.
22:01
Speaker 1: I was in the cage, I was prepped. I knew
22:03
Speaker 1: the sequencing, and that is a job in itself too.
22:06
Speaker 1: So with both of these catchers, I think it's a
22:08
Speaker 1: difficult position for both of them to be in, but
22:10
Speaker 1: it could be going so sideways. But credit to the
22:14
Speaker 1: organization for being consistent in their communication, which is not
22:17
Speaker 1: always true with a lot of the players, and credit
22:20
Speaker 1: to the players. Credit to Herrera for taking the criticism
22:22
Speaker 1: to heart and working at it. And credit to Pedro
22:26
Speaker 1: for understanding the situation and doing the best he can
22:28
Speaker 1: to stay prepared and coming in in the most pivotal
22:31
Speaker 1: part of the ballgame and being expected to produce, and
22:34
Speaker 1: he still does and it's.
22:37
Speaker 2: Actually working out pretty well. Because listen, I do agree
22:40
Speaker 2: then I think Pa Hayes has got some upside offensively,
22:45
Speaker 2: and I think we need to also sort of be
22:48
Speaker 2: patient with him, patient in a different way than we
22:51
Speaker 2: have to be with Herrera. Boy, if you had the
22:54
Speaker 2: composite there you got Johnny Bench. I think eddiwell, well
22:58
Speaker 2: them together, I know, yeah, you know'd be pretty amazing.
23:04
Speaker 2: But for whatever it's worth, again, only six games, but
23:08
Speaker 2: the Cardinals catchers, I won't read numbers. It gets boring,
23:11
Speaker 2: and I'm guilty of that sometime. I admit I can't
23:15
Speaker 2: help myself. The boy can't help himself. But anyway, they
23:19
Speaker 2: have through the first week of baseball, the Cardinals have
23:23
Speaker 2: the best offense from the catcher position in the majors.
23:26
Speaker 2: Now Herrari, yes, but don't forget Pies had a pretty
23:30
Speaker 2: big game Sunday too, so it's not like he's along
23:34
Speaker 2: for the ride. Offensively. He certainly put his pieces in.
23:37
Speaker 2: So it's a really good situation offensively, because if we're
23:42
Speaker 2: going to consider Pies to be like a number two
23:44
Speaker 2: catcher man in Saint Louis, especially all those years with
23:50
Speaker 2: the ADDI no disrespect to my friend Gary Bennett and
23:54
Speaker 2: some others. Right, boy, the car Cardinals got no offense
23:58
Speaker 2: out of like that so called number two catchers, right,
24:01
Speaker 2: And I think Pa Hayes can actually give you a
24:04
Speaker 2: little more than what we've seen in the past. So
24:07
Speaker 2: maybe I'm being a you know, glass half full guy
24:10
Speaker 2: on this, but I think there's potential there to just
24:12
Speaker 2: have a really good year out of the catching position,
24:16
Speaker 2: defense and offense. And I think Ali deserves some credit.
24:19
Speaker 2: And I know the haters think everything he does is
24:22
Speaker 2: the worst man Yeah, we're worst managing in the history
24:25
Speaker 2: of baseball, right, But I think what he's trying to
24:31
Speaker 2: do here is is it's gonna be it's gonna be difficult,
24:35
Speaker 2: it's going to be tricky, but but he's trying to
24:38
Speaker 2: trying to do it in a way where you know,
24:40
Speaker 2: Herrera is still going to get most of the advats, right,
24:44
Speaker 2: But when you have a when you have a lead,
24:46
Speaker 2: to try to do, Okay, what can we do to
24:48
Speaker 2: protect this lead? Pi Hayes is part of that formula.
24:52
Speaker 2: Is that a crazy idea? I don't think it is.
24:56
Speaker 2: I think it's actually a pretty damn smart idea. Even then,
24:59
Speaker 2: and I'm repeating myself, we as fans have to know
25:03
Speaker 2: that sometimes it won't. It'll just go boom on you, right,
25:09
Speaker 2: The same thing applies to really great relief pitchers. Every
25:13
Speaker 2: now and then it just goes boom. You know. Does
25:17
Speaker 2: that mean the manager was wrong, any manager to bring
25:20
Speaker 2: in that particular setup guy or closer who's been great
25:23
Speaker 2: all year, but you know, once in a while it's
25:26
Speaker 2: just gonna blow up. Does that mean the manager stupid? No,
25:30
Speaker 2: you go with the track record, you go with numbers,
25:33
Speaker 2: you go with trends, you go with a performance history.
25:38
Speaker 2: No one can get these calls right every single time.
25:41
Speaker 2: And Ali's trying to do something, and I know it's
25:44
Speaker 2: probably done before. I'm talking about the catcher situation. I
25:50
Speaker 2: don't recall anytime recently seeing that. I'm sure it's happened,
25:53
Speaker 2: but it is something new. I like creative. I like
25:58
Speaker 2: creativity and managers, I really do. And I think I
26:02
Speaker 2: think Golly deserves some credit for this, although as I
26:05
Speaker 2: say that, I also realized that about maybe eight percent
26:09
Speaker 2: of Cardinals fans will give Hi credit for this. I'm
26:11
Speaker 2: being a little paid.
26:13
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, yeah, I loved and Twitter is such
26:16
Speaker 1: a small fraction of but it's the one that I
26:19
Speaker 1: see in real time, so I loved the immediate reaction.
26:23
Speaker 1: I will say that the timeliness of the Grand Slam
26:26
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, immediately after always Maunain visit was objectively funny.
26:30
Speaker 1: And to see Cardinals fans freak out about that and I,
26:35
Speaker 1: you know, just out of nowhere, and then happening later
26:37
Speaker 1: they're all the way back in and always thinking. I
26:40
Speaker 1: just love writing the roller coaster with you, guys, I
26:42
Speaker 1: really do. But I agree with you. I think I
26:46
Speaker 1: thought coming into the season, Ollie marml is gonna have
26:48
Speaker 1: a tough spot because he has to develop guys and
26:50
Speaker 1: win games at the same time and make sure everyone
26:52
Speaker 1: gets playing time, all of that good stuff. But what
26:55
Speaker 1: he's doing with Herrera and Pedro pa has makes sense
26:58
Speaker 1: and it is very difficult. It's a very fine line
27:01
Speaker 1: to walk. It did not work for them Monday, but
27:03
Speaker 1: it did work for them last Thursday and Saturday. So
27:06
Speaker 1: even if you have the most you could have a
27:08
Speaker 1: Ryan Helsley out there. Ryan hells is going to blow
27:10
Speaker 1: a couple of saves every now and then, even when
27:12
Speaker 1: he is the best closer in baseball. This catching substitution
27:16
Speaker 1: strategy is probably the most sound they could make it.
27:19
Speaker 1: Right now, it's not going to work one hundred percent
27:21
Speaker 1: of the time, but I understand the logic behind it,
27:25
Speaker 1: and Bernie, you have some some thoughts here about the kids.
27:29
Speaker 1: So let's get into the kids. But first a message
27:31
Speaker 1: from FanDuel Sports Network. You can now stream the Saint
27:37
Speaker 1: Louis Cardinals games through FanDuel Sports Network and if you
27:40
Speaker 1: use the promo code Baseball thirty, you can start it
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Speaker 1: your free trial. Cancel during the free trial to avoid charges.
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Speaker 1: Eligibility retrictions apply. Visit FanDuel Sportsnetwork dot com for details. Brie,
28:06
Speaker 1: let's get you have some stats on the kids.
28:11
Speaker 2: And if I could take a moment to be a
28:14
Speaker 2: shameless self promoter, I've read in my Redbird review, which
28:17
Speaker 2: I just got done right before we connected. It's not
28:21
Speaker 2: online yet. I got to do a little more editing.
28:24
Speaker 2: But one of the things I wanted to do is
28:25
Speaker 2: because we all agree that the that the young hitters
28:30
Speaker 2: that they have. Their performance is going to be very influential,
28:33
Speaker 2: good or bad, whether this offense can make a move,
28:37
Speaker 2: And so you're just looking for signs right away that, Okay,
28:41
Speaker 2: you know, is it going to be better? Will they
28:43
Speaker 2: come through? We can't draw any conclusions after six games,
28:47
Speaker 2: but for whatever it's worth, they're five youngest hitters. Victor
28:51
Speaker 2: Scott Well No, in no particular order, sorry, Mason Win,
28:56
Speaker 2: Victor Scott, Nolan Gorman, Jordan Walker. I haven't Von Herrera.
29:01
Speaker 2: Those five hitters during the homestand collectively hit three twenty
29:04
Speaker 2: six and they had a nine to forty four ops
29:08
Speaker 2: and just every single one of them, just about even
29:11
Speaker 2: Mason Win. Mason Winn took a lot of pitches. He
29:14
Speaker 2: wasn't like going up their hacking. They had really mature
29:17
Speaker 2: at bats. I got some stuff on Gorman. It's like
29:20
Speaker 2: sliver samples, but it's almost funny, like his contact rate
29:24
Speaker 2: and how he did not chase pitches out of his zone.
29:28
Speaker 2: So at least the lessons that have been imparted, they
29:32
Speaker 2: went into the season trying to put that stuff into action.
29:36
Speaker 2: And I thought it was a really good sign because
29:39
Speaker 2: I mean, this is five guys in your lineup, not
29:42
Speaker 2: every single day, but they're gonna be either. If they're
29:45
Speaker 2: not regular starters, they're gonna be They're gonna get a
29:48
Speaker 2: lot of playing time. So much can tilt one way
29:51
Speaker 2: or the other based on what these five guys do,
29:54
Speaker 2: because they are the youngest hitters and this is the
29:57
Speaker 2: runway season, right so they're all out there on the runway.
29:59
Speaker 2: But I thought, you know, that was an encouraging thing
30:01
Speaker 2: for the team and the fans to see how they
30:04
Speaker 2: did as a group, and that even those numbers are
30:07
Speaker 2: especially great. Would you consider that, you know, Win didn't
30:10
Speaker 2: even have a hit until, yes, until Wednesdays, so even
30:14
Speaker 2: with that baked in there, these numbers are outstanding.
30:17
Speaker 1: And what's encouraging is no matter who the opposing lineup
30:22
Speaker 1: is or the opposing picture, excuse me, it's a tough
30:24
Speaker 1: decision on who's on the bench that day right now, right,
30:27
Speaker 1: I mean Nolan Gorman and the very small sample size
30:30
Speaker 1: that we've seen him has looked excellent, Luke and Baker excellent.
30:35
Speaker 1: Talked about Herrera obviously, Jordan Walker continues to excel. And
30:39
Speaker 1: you know, I think fans were concerned about Mason just
30:41
Speaker 1: given how his spring was the swing looked a little off,
30:45
Speaker 1: but I agree with you. The quality of the advats
30:47
Speaker 1: were there. The outcomes certainly wasn't. But what was different
30:50
Speaker 1: about Mason, and we talked about this with both Mason
30:52
Speaker 1: and Ollie over the week, was his mentality Tuesday night,
30:58
Speaker 1: can We talked to him right after that loss an
30:59
Speaker 1: extra That's a tough time to talk to any player,
31:01
Speaker 1: and he was a pro about it. He stood by
31:03
Speaker 1: his locker and he was candid. He said, you know,
31:06
Speaker 1: I think if this is happening to me last year,
31:07
Speaker 1: I definitely would have broken some things. I definitely be frustrated.
31:10
Speaker 1: He goes, but that's selfish. If we're winning games, we're
31:12
Speaker 1: trying to win games and I'm over here mad because
31:14
Speaker 1: I'm not playing, well, that's a bad teammate. That's selfish
31:17
Speaker 1: of me, and I'm not going to do that. He said.
31:18
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm close. I've been working extensively. He
31:21
Speaker 1: felt like his pelvis. I'm going to try to be
31:24
Speaker 1: like a hitting coach mechanic, so just bear with me.
31:27
Speaker 1: His pelvis was tilted up, so he was not able
31:29
Speaker 1: to hit down on the ball, who's pulling off of it,
31:31
Speaker 1: could not really reach anything on the outside part of
31:33
Speaker 1: his own. So he's tilting himself back, is what he
31:36
Speaker 1: described it as, and he's trying to hit down on
31:38
Speaker 1: the ball more, get better quality contact. He said he's
31:40
Speaker 1: watching film with Brenton Brown during the rain delay on
31:43
Speaker 1: Sunday and they were looking at some things there and
31:45
Speaker 1: he said on Tuesday, he goes, I'm close and I
31:48
Speaker 1: feel like some scary things are coming. As I'm thinking
31:50
Speaker 1: about this. He might have said this Monday. I don't know.
31:53
Speaker 1: I can't remember one of these days, but he did
31:56
Speaker 1: say some scary things are coming and I feel good.
31:58
Speaker 1: But the fact that he was able to be so
32:01
Speaker 1: honest about how he would have handled things last year
32:03
Speaker 1: compared to what he was now, I was like, I
32:05
Speaker 1: really don't think Mason fans the team has anything to
32:08
Speaker 1: worry about. I think he'll be fine.
32:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I thought it was a good sign yesterday
32:12
Speaker 2: on the same day, Contrara's and win both got something going,
32:15
Speaker 2: you know, And I think that's really important because it listen,
32:18
Speaker 2: these are pros, these are very talented people. They're also
32:22
Speaker 2: human beings. And I don't care who you are, especially
32:24
Speaker 2: at the top of the season, like you can have
32:26
Speaker 2: an O fourteen in late June, and nobody's really going
32:30
Speaker 2: to talk about yes, you know, so you feel it.
32:34
Speaker 2: You have to feel it. It's like, you know, for us,
32:38
Speaker 2: it's the equivalent of like you're writing on an impossible deadline.
32:42
Speaker 2: And in my case, there are some times where I
32:44
Speaker 2: just early choked and I and I was great at
32:47
Speaker 2: deadline writing, but every now and then you're just kind
32:49
Speaker 2: of like, oh, you know, so I try to relate
32:52
Speaker 2: to that in that kind of weak way pressure can
32:56
Speaker 2: pressure can make you kind of, you know case only
33:00
Speaker 2: just lose it. It's tough. It's tough, and that's why
33:03
Speaker 2: I appreciate what all these guys have to do and
33:07
Speaker 2: I give them their slumps because my goodness, you know,
33:10
Speaker 2: we're talking about six months of baseball and there are
33:13
Speaker 2: going to be stretches where it's really ugly. Now, Cardinals
33:18
Speaker 2: fans need to realize we should hope that maybe those
33:22
Speaker 2: two guys got it out of the way early, right.
33:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I love the optimism here.
33:27
Speaker 2: Well, you know, but if your offense can score seven
33:30
Speaker 2: runs a game in the first home stand without these
33:35
Speaker 2: two really important players doing much at all, I take
33:40
Speaker 2: that as a good sign.
33:41
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean anyway, virtually zero production from your
33:44
Speaker 1: number two hitter and you still have, you know, forty
33:46
Speaker 1: two runs in six games. I think that'll play. And
33:49
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see what this looks like on the road.
33:52
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see just how, you know, how Mason looks,
33:56
Speaker 1: how Wilson looks. I do think they turned a page.
33:58
Speaker 1: One guy. I really want to highlight. He's our Fandual
34:01
Speaker 1: Sports Network. Oh that's the wrong one. Where'd you go?
34:04
Speaker 1: Where did we go? There we go? He's our FanDuel
34:09
Speaker 1: Sports Network player to watch coming into Boston. He has
34:12
Speaker 1: Mister Lars Newbar, like I said earlier in the show,
34:16
Speaker 1: leadoff hitter, has played every single inning so far for
34:19
Speaker 1: the Saint Louis Cardinals. He has reached base sixteen out
34:22
Speaker 1: of thirty times. He has count with me one, two, three, four,
34:25
Speaker 1: five multi hit games, two homers. He has an ops
34:31
Speaker 1: of twelve hundred, a slugging of six sixty seven, and
34:35
Speaker 1: an on base percentage of five to thirty three. Yes,
34:37
Speaker 1: it's only been six games, but you take that in
34:40
Speaker 1: a week. You'll take that from any player. Lars Newbar
34:43
Speaker 1: has this catalyst energy that he brings on both sides
34:47
Speaker 1: of the ball. I like his little bird celebration. I
34:49
Speaker 1: don't know for sure he started that, but I can't
34:51
Speaker 1: imagine anyone else. I'm just so encouraged from the early
34:56
Speaker 1: returns of Lars Newbar. I think he completely changes the
34:59
Speaker 1: dynamic of the lineup. He looks really athletic out there
35:02
Speaker 1: and left, and it's just it's been a while since
35:06
Speaker 1: you've seen the Cardinals lineup turn over and you're like,
35:09
Speaker 1: all right, here come the hitters, and that starts with Lars,
35:12
Speaker 1: and he looks completely re energized, refocused, and ready to
35:15
Speaker 1: show the Cardinals, Hey, I am a part of this,
35:17
Speaker 1: whether they see it that way or not. This reset,
35:20
Speaker 1: I'm a player that you want to build around, and
35:22
Speaker 1: I'm going to show you why I like it. I
35:24
Speaker 1: like what I seen from larsmie Bar so far.
35:27
Speaker 2: I think he's wired a bet leadoff and listen, when
35:29
Speaker 2: he's had a chance to do it, he's always gotten
35:32
Speaker 2: really good results, you know. And I don't count twenty
35:37
Speaker 2: twenty one when he came up and he played a
35:39
Speaker 2: little I kind of throw that to the side, But sin,
35:42
Speaker 2: I don't have the numbers in front of me. But
35:44
Speaker 2: since the start of twenty twenty two, when he's been
35:47
Speaker 2: given the opportunity to bet. Leadoff numbers are outstanding because,
35:52
Speaker 2: my goodness, you know, all the pitches he sees on
35:55
Speaker 2: average for plate appearances. He makes the pitchers work. He's
35:58
Speaker 2: given the number two, the number three, everybody in the
36:01
Speaker 2: dugout who might hit that inning, he's he gives them
36:05
Speaker 2: a chance to see what the pitcher's trying to do.
36:08
Speaker 2: He's trying to tire him out a little bit. But
36:10
Speaker 2: also it kind of exposed his game plan. And you know,
36:14
Speaker 2: then you have a guy with a with a phenomenal
36:16
Speaker 2: walk rate, and he a really strong OPB, and he
36:22
Speaker 2: he ain't Ricky Henderson, but he can do that Ricky
36:24
Speaker 2: Henderson thing where he he can deliver power in the
36:27
Speaker 2: leadoff spot, you know, and that I don't think those
36:30
Speaker 2: guys are that all that easy to find. So the
36:35
Speaker 2: talent has always been there with Newt bar always the
36:38
Speaker 2: frustration level with the injuries is understandable. But I've always
36:43
Speaker 2: pushed back with the with fans that just say, well,
36:47
Speaker 2: he's just an average guy. You know. I've had people
36:51
Speaker 2: tell me well, he's just a fourth outfit. No, he's not.
36:54
Speaker 2: You're mad at him because he gets hurt a lot.
36:56
Speaker 2: I understand because I've been frustrated and I've expressed it too.
37:00
Speaker 2: Will he ever stay healthy, that's a whole difference question.
37:04
Speaker 2: He's a really good player, and he's like a stat
37:07
Speaker 2: cast superstar, Like he's like a Hall of Fame stat
37:10
Speaker 2: cast guy. And nobody wants to hear that either because
37:14
Speaker 2: you know, even me, and I'm into the advanced stuff.
37:17
Speaker 2: But you know, the advance excuse me, expected stats are nice,
37:22
Speaker 2: but the actual stats, the actual numbers, actually win ball games,
37:26
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. So, but I boy, it
37:30
Speaker 2: seems like that team follows him too. I mean maybe
37:33
Speaker 2: I'm saying that because he's so visible in his energy
37:35
Speaker 2: and enthusiasms, always on display in those dugout shots or wherever.
37:39
Speaker 2: But just the way he sets the tone at the
37:42
Speaker 2: top of the lineup, I mean, it's like a great
37:45
Speaker 2: way to get that get that thing rolling right away.
37:48
Speaker 2: He's got that capability. So yeah, big fan of what
37:52
Speaker 2: we saw in those first six games. My goodness, he
37:55
Speaker 2: was tremendous.
37:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was excellent, high energy guy on and off
38:00
Speaker 1: the field. But there's a reason that his teammates like
38:03
Speaker 1: him so much. And there's a reason my only Marmal
38:05
Speaker 1: is gonna keep him in that leadoff spot regardless of handedness.
38:09
Speaker 1: Now on deck, first road games of the year. What
38:13
Speaker 1: better way to start than at Fenway Park. It's Boston's
38:16
Speaker 1: home opener on Friday, and why I maintain Saint Louis
38:20
Speaker 1: does it best. I can't think of a better home
38:22
Speaker 1: opener to go as a visitor than than Fenway. With
38:25
Speaker 1: the history here, the Red Sox are doing a lot
38:27
Speaker 1: of great things. We'll have an episode out previewing that tomorrow,
38:31
Speaker 1: but for now, Cardinals fans enjoy the off day. I
38:34
Speaker 1: know I will very responsibly, of course, as I always do.
38:40
Speaker 2: What do I have? Oh gosh, I don't know. You'll
38:45
Speaker 2: find me in my I call my workspace the layer,
38:50
Speaker 2: but you'll find me in the Layer. But I also
38:52
Speaker 2: now call it the content Farm. I'll be hanging out
38:55
Speaker 2: in the content.
38:56
Speaker 1: Farm, my content creator.
38:57
Speaker 2: Congratulations, produce, just producing. No, I know it'll be I
39:01
Speaker 2: think we've got a good dinner plan on Saturday with
39:03
Speaker 2: the family member birthday celebration and all that. So no,
39:08
Speaker 2: I'm excited. This team's very intriguing. But I have to
39:12
Speaker 2: ask you, man, I can't let you just get out
39:14
Speaker 2: of here, because you were hinting at certain things. You're
39:16
Speaker 2: in Boston, you got there early. I don't know if
39:20
Speaker 2: you have any writing to do today. I know you
39:22
Speaker 2: got a piece coming out Friday, so maybe the writing's
39:25
Speaker 2: already in the bank. Oh okay. What does Katie Woo
39:29
Speaker 2: do with the day off in Boston? What is on
39:31
Speaker 2: the agenda?
39:33
Speaker 1: Well, this is a special trip. I actually have just
39:35
Speaker 1: a little bit of writing to do. I did work ahead.
39:38
Speaker 1: What I really have to do is about three months
39:40
Speaker 1: of expenses, but I did most of those on the
39:41
Speaker 1: plane yesterday. So this is a fun weekend for me.
39:45
Speaker 1: Not to make it about me, of course, I would
39:46
Speaker 1: never do that. But my birthday is actually tomorrow, and
39:49
Speaker 1: my parents flew in. My parents love to travel, they're
39:52
Speaker 1: both retired, so they did the cross country flight yesterday.
39:56
Speaker 1: Alexa Dat is on the trip as a friend's she'll
40:00
Speaker 1: be there, but she's not. You know, Jim Hayes has
40:01
Speaker 1: the sideline recording, but she came with me and my
40:04
Speaker 1: good friend Emily, who works for the Cardinals as a videographer.
40:06
Speaker 1: As Cardinals Insider, she appears on FanDuel every now and then.
40:09
Speaker 1: She's on the trip as well, so we have some
40:11
Speaker 1: dinner plans tonight and then the way that this here's
40:14
Speaker 1: some behind the scenes what baseball writers really look at.
40:19
Speaker 1: The scheduling of these games are ideal for fun because
40:23
Speaker 1: we have a two o'clock game on Friday, which means
40:25
Speaker 1: we're done by like six seven o'clock. And then Saturday
40:29
Speaker 1: that's a four o'clock game, so you have some recovery
40:32
Speaker 1: if you need it, and then you're also done relatively early.
40:35
Speaker 1: And Sunday is Sunday Night baseball, so you have all
40:38
Speaker 1: day Sunday to recover should you need it. You know,
40:41
Speaker 1: I would never I would never need to do that
40:43
Speaker 1: because I would never be out late. Obviously, Pittsburgh is
40:46
Speaker 1: gonna suck, That's all I'm gonna say. I'm gonna be
40:48
Speaker 1: very tired for Pittsburgh. But I'm gonna have a lot
40:50
Speaker 1: of fun here in Boston, Bertie. I'm super excited. Get
40:52
Speaker 1: some dinner at the North End there you go bars
40:55
Speaker 1: around here. Tam Bar is a good one. Uh yeah,
40:59
Speaker 1: it'll be fun. But obviously I'm not fine.
41:03
Speaker 2: See, I think I need to do some kind of column,
41:06
Speaker 2: like human interest column on the three Beat writers. The
41:10
Speaker 2: three primary beat writers. Uh yourself, there, goold John Detton,
41:16
Speaker 2: because I'd see you as like three different animals on
41:21
Speaker 2: the road, right, yeah, three different species. Right. And I
41:27
Speaker 2: know what Derek, I know what Derek's jam is. I
41:30
Speaker 2: mean Derek actually, uh, I give him all the credit
41:34
Speaker 2: in the world because he is off.
41:37
Speaker 1: He was funny.
41:38
Speaker 2: But when he has a few hours and he always
41:42
Speaker 2: tries to maximize a trip to a city, especially those
41:45
Speaker 2: that he really likes. I mean, the dude is in,
41:48
Speaker 2: you know, he's in art galleries, he's in museums, he's
41:51
Speaker 2: in he goes to these places where they have like
41:53
Speaker 2: weird nick knacks and stuff, and you know, just he's
41:56
Speaker 2: always going out there exploring things. When I was on
42:01
Speaker 2: the road over you know, about one hundred and fifty
42:03
Speaker 2: days a year or all those years straight, I just
42:05
Speaker 2: wanted to sleep. It was like, leave me alone, you know, right,
42:09
Speaker 2: give me some coffee and leave me alone. I don't
42:11
Speaker 2: want to go anywhere. Maybe I'll go to lunch, but
42:13
Speaker 2: I don't want to do anything. Yeah. I would see you, Yeah,
42:16
Speaker 2: I would see you having fun, but you know, within reason,
42:18
Speaker 2: but having fun, I'm not sure about reason.
42:21
Speaker 1: Reason.
42:23
Speaker 2: What's it? What's the scouting report on Detton on the road.
42:26
Speaker 1: Okay, so I would agree with you, Derek. He had
42:32
Speaker 1: countless recommendations of coffee places, restaurants, just things to do
42:37
Speaker 1: that were outside of the like bar scene, which I
42:40
Speaker 1: was so appreciated for. And every single place that I've
42:43
Speaker 1: gone to that Derek has recommended has been excellent. John
42:47
Speaker 1: is kind of our like activities chair for the Stle's BBWAA,
42:51
Speaker 1: and he is so big on pickleball. He's really good
42:54
Speaker 1: at it actually, so he organizes pickleball on the road
42:58
Speaker 1: and at home. At home, we play like every Tuesday
43:02
Speaker 1: out either at Forest Park or Tower Grove. And it's
43:04
Speaker 1: not just writers, it's all Saint Louis Sports Media. If
43:06
Speaker 1: you can show up play from ten to twelve, we
43:08
Speaker 1: have two or three courts reserved. It's really fun. And
43:12
Speaker 1: then on the road, we'll do it in the mornings
43:15
Speaker 1: every now and then because we're trying to be like
43:16
Speaker 1: healthy habits on the road. And then every now and
43:20
Speaker 1: then we're going to beer after the game or something
43:21
Speaker 1: there just decompress. Usually it'll be like we had a
43:25
Speaker 1: really rough game and postgame was even rougher, and we
43:28
Speaker 1: just need to vent about, like our silly little sports
43:31
Speaker 1: writer lives. But yeah, John John is great and he
43:35
Speaker 1: really makes sure that I stay active. There's pickleball courts
43:37
Speaker 1: that we know of in Milwaukee, Cincinnati. I don't think
43:41
Speaker 1: we're gonna be playing in Boston or Pittsburgh because the
43:43
Speaker 1: weather is terrible. It's raining right now. It's really putting
43:45
Speaker 1: a bad vibe on my off day. But I think
43:49
Speaker 1: you have it pretty spot on, and every now and
43:52
Speaker 1: then the whole beat will go out and it's we
43:55
Speaker 1: have a good time.
43:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, Derek is so thoughtful, and you know,
44:02
Speaker 2: I just have to say this because since I want
44:03
Speaker 2: to talk about again, his road life is fascinating me.
44:08
Speaker 2: Nothing makes me smile like I get a when I
44:10
Speaker 2: get a postcard from from the road from there cool
44:14
Speaker 2: and you know, and I just never know when they're
44:16
Speaker 2: like if he's in Baltimore, right, I mean, he knows
44:18
Speaker 2: that's my hometown. It isn't just he just throws some
44:22
Speaker 2: post He writes a very a very thoughtful note. But
44:27
Speaker 2: he also he also sends it. He picks a postcard
44:29
Speaker 2: based on the connection to the city, you know, and
44:34
Speaker 2: so with you know, like in Baltimore, it's something to
44:38
Speaker 2: do with crabs, or it's something to do with Edgar
44:40
Speaker 2: Allan Poe, or it's you know, right Fort McHenry, whatever,
44:43
Speaker 2: Earl Weaver. You know, it's like, so he's uh, I
44:49
Speaker 2: say this with love. He is a very interesting guy.
44:53
Speaker 2: I mean, he just don't ever try to peg him.
44:55
Speaker 2: He'll surprise you. But all three of you do an
44:58
Speaker 2: excellent job. Seriously, you do an job. And I'm really
45:01
Speaker 2: happy to know. I knew this already, but I'm really
45:03
Speaker 2: happy that you reaffirmed that all three of you get
45:06
Speaker 2: along splendidly. So that's there's some situations I've seen where
45:10
Speaker 2: it's not like that. That's awesome, you.
45:12
Speaker 1: Know, I think, and you know this, Bernie, after one
45:13
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty two games together plus two months of spring,
45:16
Speaker 1: there's always a little bit of just like everyone take
45:19
Speaker 1: a deep breath and calm down. But I was about
45:22
Speaker 1: to say I'm eleve or not a fighter. That's not true.
45:24
Speaker 1: I'll fight. We get along though, and you know, all
45:28
Speaker 1: Homestand I sit next to Daniel Guerrero from the Post Dispatch,
45:32
Speaker 1: a young up and coming writer who's talented, very talented.
45:35
Speaker 1: John is on my left, Daniel's on my right. Land
45:37
Speaker 1: Worthies next to Daniel, and I was laughing all serious
45:41
Speaker 1: against the Angels because that's what it's about, you go.
45:44
Speaker 1: I mean, we have so many jokes about because our
45:48
Speaker 1: lives revolve around this team, so we have so many jokes,
45:51
Speaker 1: so many references. And I was just sitting back the
45:53
Speaker 1: other day and I was like, how lucky am I
45:54
Speaker 1: to do this again where I'm laughing and I cannot, like,
45:58
Speaker 1: I haven't stopped smiling since the first pitch, and then
46:01
Speaker 1: of course I get on Twitter and you guys bring
46:02
Speaker 1: me down and I'm kidding. But it's a fun dynamic.
46:06
Speaker 1: I'm excited for it, Bernie. And hopefully we'll see you
46:08
Speaker 1: at the ballpark soon.
46:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I told Brian Bartow, I said, hey, man,
46:14
Speaker 2: I'll be seeing you soon. I gave some thought to
46:16
Speaker 2: going down there yesterday, but frankly, I'm kind of like,
46:18
Speaker 2: uh no, it was terrible.
46:21
Speaker 1: It was terrible.
46:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was way too threatening. I'm like, no, so,
46:25
Speaker 2: but yeah.
46:26
Speaker 1: We're supposed to have some seventy degrees. I know, what's
46:28
Speaker 1: Saint Louis. It'll probably change, like, let's keep our fingers crossed.
46:31
Speaker 1: I'm excited for that.
46:32
Speaker 2: Katie love doing this with you. Thank you as always,
46:36
Speaker 2: of course.
46:37
Speaker 1: This was super fun. Bernie. Well, Bernie, I'll be back
46:39
Speaker 1: with you at the end of the Boston Red Sox
46:42
Speaker 1: series time TVD SENA night baseball thrown everything off and
46:45
Speaker 1: then we got flights to catch to Pittsburgh Monday morning.
46:48
Speaker 1: But we will be back with you and we'll preview
46:50
Speaker 1: the Red Sox series tomorrow. I'll have something for you
46:53
Speaker 1: guys out Friday morning for Bernie. I'm Katie Wu. This
46:56
Speaker 1: is Cardinal Territory. We'll talk to you very soon.