Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Transcripts From The DOJ's Sit Down With Ghislaine Maxwell (Part 19-23) (6/7/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Transcripts From The DOJ's Sit Down With Ghislaine Maxwell (Part 19-23) (6/7/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:02
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right
• 0:06
  back to Glenn Maxwell and are a fireside chat with Todd,
• 0:09
  Blanche and the DOJ. Maxwell. But his name will come
• 0:16
  to me and if not, we can find it, Blanche. Okay.
• 0:20
  Staying on your relationship, your association with the Clintons. You
• 0:24
  are part of the ramp up or the startup of
• 0:26
  the Clinton Global Initiative, Maxwell, I was and helping them
• 0:30
  in their effort. Maxwell, I would say, very central to that, Yes, Blanche,
• 0:34
  and mister Epstein. Was he part of the work around
• 0:37
  that or just in support of you? Maxwell? He supported
• 0:41
  me to help them, But then I think he may
• 0:43
  have tried to use that to insert himself in some
• 0:45
  way that would not have surprised me at all. So
• 0:49
  not only is she protecting Trump, she's protecting the Clintons.
• 0:52
  Not shocking power protects power, like I've told you from
• 0:56
  the very beginning. And I know that he was annoying
• 0:59
  in terms that I could catch him on the phone
• 1:01
  and he wouldn't always agree with what I wanted to do,
• 1:04
  and I was like, it's not your idea. I don't
• 1:06
  really care what you think. But that didn't go over
• 1:09
  so well, Blanche. And to that he's cut off again. Maxwell. Oh,
• 1:13
  I just want to say, it wasn't my idea for
• 1:16
  his CGI. Blanche say it again, Maxwell, it's not my idea.
• 1:21
  They had the idea before. I just helped bring key personnel.
• 1:24
  Blanche cuts her off. You're saying the idea of President
• 1:27
  Clinton kind of having his own Davis like to that
• 1:30
  cut off by Maxwell, I didn't, that's not and Blanche
• 1:35
  cuts her off. Understood, Maxwell, I don't try to elevate
• 1:39
  myself in any form of importance here. Well, that's because
• 1:42
  you're not important. Maybe in your own mind, but to
• 1:45
  anyone who has a brain in their head, they know
• 1:47
  that you're a vile animal. Blanche, No, I understand. Maxwell. Okay, Blanche,
• 1:53
  did you go to Davis with President Clinton more than
• 1:56
  once or just once? Maxwell? I can't remember once for sure,
• 2:00
  and I think maybe twice, but I don't remember. Blanche.
• 2:05
  You're not aware of President Clinton ever going to the island. Maxwell,
• 2:08
  he never, absolutely never went, and I can be sure
• 2:11
  of that because there is no way he would have gone.
• 2:14
  I don't believe that there's any way he would have
• 2:15
  gone to the island had I not been there, because
• 2:18
  I don't believe he had an independent friendship if you will,
• 2:21
  with Epstein. So I guess that mister Scully is a liar.
• 2:26
  And it's easy to call Virginia a liar now that
• 2:28
  she's dead. Right. Unfortunately for Maxwell, the last time she
• 2:33
  did that, she ended up charged with perjury. Did they speak,
• 2:36
  did they go? Yes? But that's very different from going
• 2:39
  to spend time on an island. And Plus, the story
• 2:42
  as told is so patently absurd that I flew him
• 2:45
  in a helicopter. I am a helicopter pilot, that is true,
• 2:49
  But the notion of me flying an ex president in
• 2:51
  a machine that would terrify me. I would never even
• 2:54
  take that responsibility. Can you imagine? Yeah, No, Blanche, did
• 2:59
  you ever go with President Clinton? Danny of Epstein's properties? Maxwell?
• 3:03
  I cut off by Blanche. So like New Mexico, pom Beach,
• 3:06
  or New York, Maxwell, I have no memory of him
• 3:09
  in any of those places. Well, I can tell you
• 3:12
  that she's lying. I trust my sources much more than
• 3:16
  I trust Glenn Maxwell, and those sources have all confirmed
• 3:19
  that the Clintons used to vacation at Zoro Ranch. When
• 3:23
  you were in London with President Clinton? Did you ever
• 3:25
  go to your flat with him? Maxwell? I don't think
• 3:28
  he did, because this like it's he wouldn't He wouldn't
• 3:32
  even be able to carry all the secret service with him.
• 3:35
  I don't think so. No, Blanche, we talked a little
• 3:39
  bit about the Duchess of York, about Sarah Ferguson yesterday.
• 3:42
  When's the last time, when's the last time you saw?
• 3:46
  Were you? Do you have a or hang out with her?
• 3:49
  Socializing with her in the nineties two thousands both, Maxwell.
• 3:53
  I don't know if she liked me very much. I
• 3:56
  think my friendship with her ex husband, well, sometimes she
• 3:59
  really did like me, and sometimes she didn't, So maybe
• 4:02
  a frenem me. I don't know. Well, yeah, that's because
• 4:05
  he was playing hide the SLAMI with Glenn Maxwell. We
• 4:07
  all know what's up. We all know that Jeffrey Epstein
• 4:11
  and Prince Andrew are Eskimo brothers. Blanche, Okay, it was
• 4:16
  always friendly when we were together, but I think that
• 4:18
  there was some latent hostility. Well, I wonder fucking why, Blanche.
• 4:23
  Is that something you've heard since everything came out or
• 4:26
  along the way you felt that way, Maxwell, No, that's
• 4:30
  how I felt. That is a characterization of myself. That's
• 4:33
  how I felt about her. I was always friendly with her.
• 4:37
  I mean I've seen her many many times, and she's
• 4:39
  also super super close with other people I'm very good
• 4:42
  friends with in England. I think that she liked mister Epstein. Blanche,
• 4:47
  why do you think that? Maxwell? My female intuition, Blanche Okay,
• 4:52
  Lea Saffian Discovery, Maxwell, oh, lea Saffian, the car chasing
• 4:58
  Lea Saffian, the lady that was involved in the stupid
• 5:01
  ass staging of Glenn Maxwell reading the CIA book. Remember
• 5:05
  that lady? Yeah, this is her Leasafian the letter Maxwell,
• 5:11
  I don't remember it, Blanche Okay, Maxwell, Well, I know
• 5:16
  it's not possible. I know that there is discovery, but
• 5:19
  I don't recall. But I think she had a thing
• 5:21
  for him, Blanche. There's some actors or some folks from
• 5:25
  Hollywood that I want to ask you about. Just understand
• 5:28
  whether you knew them or mister Epstein knew them. Chris Tucker. Maxwell, Yes, Blanche,
• 5:33
  how did you know mister Tucker? These are all names
• 5:36
  we've all heard before, and imagine bringing up Chris Tucker
• 5:40
  before you bring up Sarah Helln Vickers. Yeah, the fix
• 5:44
  isn't in. Everything's on the up and up. Come on, Bobby,
• 5:47
  you're just being crazy, bro, you're being very cynical about this. Meanwhile,
• 5:53
  this is a hot pile of steaming shit that they're
• 5:56
  trying to make us all take a bite of. Well,
• 5:58
  I won't participate. If you want to believe this shit
• 6:01
  for what it is, cool, I don't care. I've told
• 6:05
  you folks a million times that my job isn't to
• 6:07
  convince anybody of anything. My job is to open these doors,
• 6:11
  and then when you walk through them, it's up to
• 6:13
  you to believe what you want to believe. But if
• 6:16
  they think this dumbass fairy tale is going to work
• 6:18
  on me, they got another thing coming because there's zero
• 6:21
  chance everything she's talking about bullshit. All the people they're
• 6:25
  asking about, we know about, all the real people they
• 6:28
  should be asking about silence. So what does that say
• 6:31
  to you? Does this look like a all encompassing deep
• 6:35
  dive or are we collectively getting screwed again without even
• 6:39
  a reach around? We all know the deal, Blanche President Clinton, Maxwell, Sorry, Blanche,
• 6:47
  go ahead, yep, Maxwell. But I also think that they
• 6:50
  kept a little bit in touch, and I think we
• 6:52
  met or I have a memory of him in LA.
• 6:55
  I don't know. I think they sort of loosely stayed
• 6:57
  in touch, Blanche. Do you know mister Tucker besides is
• 7:00
  that flight? Maxwell? No, Well, that's because Chris Tucker had
• 7:04
  nothing to do with these people, Blanche. And do you
• 7:07
  know whether when you say things that you kept in touch,
• 7:10
  you mean you think that mister Epstein and mister Tucker Maxwell,
• 7:13
  They may have. I didn't, but he might have. I'm
• 7:15
  not sure, Blanche. Kevin Spacey Maxwell, I know him also
• 7:20
  from the same flight, Blanche, aside from that flight, do
• 7:23
  you know him from anything else? Maxwell? No, Blanche, Naomi
• 7:26
  Campbell Maxwell, Yes, I do know Naomi, and I knew
• 7:30
  her before I met mister Epstein and former President Clinton. Blanche.
• 7:34
  Do you know whether mister Epstein separately knew miss Campbell Maxwell?
• 7:38
  I think he probably met her through me that I imagined, Blanche.
• 7:43
  And so for those three, mister Tucker, mister Spacey and
• 7:46
  miss Campbell, did they ever travel to any of mister
• 7:49
  Epstein's properties the island of New Mexico? Maxwell, Not mister Tucker, Well,
• 7:54
  not to my knowledge mister Tucker or mister Spacey. Naomi
• 7:58
  Campbell may have blanched to Maxwell. Well, I believe she
• 8:02
  visited him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may
• 8:04
  have gone to the island, and she may have gone
• 8:06
  to see his house in New York. Whether she went
• 8:08
  to New Mexico or Paris as well. Maybe they were
• 8:11
  friends or friendly, Blanche, what you just said she may
• 8:17
  have were you on those trips, Maxwell, I don't have
• 8:19
  any independent memory of that, so I'm not sure. I
• 8:22
  don't think so, Maxwell, Her relationship, her friendship, I think
• 8:26
  you're making me use your word. Her friendship whatever with
• 8:30
  mister Epstein was independent to me, Blanche, Okay. But you
• 8:33
  also had a separate friendship with her before you met
• 8:36
  mister Epstein. Maxwell, I did, Blanche, Okay. Larry Summers, the
• 8:41
  former Secretary of the Treasury, Do you know that person?
• 8:45
  Maxwell I did, Yes, Blanche. How Maxwell I met mister
• 8:50
  Summers through mister Epstein, Blanche, and the same question just
• 8:54
  generally time period. Are you talking about early two thousands,
• 8:57
  nineties a little after that? Maxwell, I honestly really don't know, Blanche, Okay. Maxwell,
• 9:03
  I did want to say something I forgot that there
• 9:06
  was yesterday you asked me about mister Epstein's properties. He
• 9:09
  had a rental house in Boston as well, but not
• 9:12
  for very long. But it was another place that I
• 9:14
  had to put together. And I only went with him once,
• 9:17
  and he would go there independently of me. No, I
• 9:20
  would not go with him. No talk about the ski
• 9:23
  chalet and veil though, huh that he bought from Elizabeth Johnson. Interesting?
• 9:27
  Or how about the other house in New York that
• 9:29
  he had No talk about that either, Huh. It's almost
• 9:32
  as if I know more than the fucking DOJ. You
• 9:35
  know how terrifying that is, because breaking fucking news. I'm
• 9:39
  half a moron and even my ass can put this together.
• 9:43
  But the DOJ. Nah, they're in the dark, right, They
• 9:45
  have no idea what's going on? Blanche. Mister Summers, do
• 9:49
  you know why? Do you know what his relationship was
• 9:51
  with mister Epstein business personal? Both or don't know? Maxwell.
• 9:56
  I think he spoke to mister Epstein about business a lot,
• 9:59
  but I think they were friends. They were friendly, Blanche.
• 10:02
  You know whether mister Summers ever traveled on mister Epstein's
• 10:05
  planes to any of the properties that mister Epstein owned Maxwell.
• 10:09
  He may have, but I don't think if he did,
• 10:11
  I was on any of the flights. I mean, those
• 10:14
  are another issue. I traveled so much that I really
• 10:18
  the flights just blur, Blanche. I understand George Soros Maxwell.
• 10:23
  I don't think he knew him. I did, but I
• 10:24
  don't think he did. I don't think. Oh, this is
• 10:27
  not anything that's contrived. Huh. So you have Donald Trump
• 10:31
  calling for Rico against George Soros, while you have Donald
• 10:35
  Trump's former personal attorney asking about George Soros in the
• 10:39
  Maxwell meeting. Nothing to see here, folks, Blanche, how did
• 10:44
  you know mister Soros Maxwell? I was friends with his kids, Blanche?
• 10:49
  Which kids? Maxwell? John? And I can't think of his
• 10:52
  other child? I can't think. I mean, I've lost his name.
• 10:55
  Lea Safian Alexander Maxwell. Who Saffian Alexander Maxwell. I met him,
• 11:02
  but just socially. He may not remember even having met me.
• 11:05
  I was excited to meet him, Blanche, When are you
• 11:08
  thinking when you have met him Maxwell? If I met him,
• 11:12
  it would have been at an event, I think, or
• 11:14
  I think Actually, no, in the Hamptons I met him.
• 11:17
  He was staying at somebody's house. If my memory serves, Blanche,
• 11:21
  and what was your relationship? How did you know his kids? Maxwell?
• 11:25
  I was out and about New York a lot, Blanche,
• 11:27
  just socially, Maxwell, just socially. Yes, Blanche, do you know
• 11:34
  whether mister Soros or his kids ever traveled on mister
• 11:37
  Epstein's planes? Maxwell, I don't think so. Hey, you know
• 11:40
  who did travel on mister Epstein's plans, though, Steve Mnuchin.
• 11:44
  How about we talk about Steve Mnuchin, any questions about
• 11:46
  him or why he was in business with Jean Luke Brunel.
• 11:50
  Did mister Soros ever visit the island or New Mexico?
• 11:53
  Blanche ass Maxwell, No, I don't think so, Blanche, Paris, Okay.
• 12:00
  Try to identify the names that have come up either
• 12:02
  publicly that come to mind that we haven't talked about
• 12:06
  a lot of names, a lot of names. And there
• 12:08
  are some folks. If you think we've forgotten to ask
• 12:10
  you about, if we've forgotten to ask you about, really
• 12:13
  you're the fucking DOJ. You put El Choppo in prison,
• 12:17
  you put El Mio in prison. You can find terrorists
• 12:20
  in caves in Tora Bora, but you need Glen Maxwell
• 12:23
  to pieces together for you, nobody's buying it, baby, Billy Blanche. Maxwell, Well,
• 12:30
  you asked me about names, and I have some names,
• 12:32
  and I just want to give you some context for
• 12:34
  the names as well, Todd Blanche. Sure. All right, folks,
• 12:37
  we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode,
• 12:40
  we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of
• 12:42
  the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 12:46
  in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to
• 12:49
  another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're
• 12:53
  picking up where we left off with Glen Maxwell and
• 12:56
  her a fireside chat with the DOJ and by Billy Blanche. Blanche. Sure, Maxwell,
• 13:05
  So we talked about Elizabeth Johnson yesterday, Blanche, Uh huh. Maxwell.
• 13:09
  She had a boyfriend and he was Frederick Fokai, the hairdresser,
• 13:13
  and he and Epstein were friendly, very friendly. Another person
• 13:17
  I talked about years ago, Blanche. And then what time
• 13:21
  period are you talking about, Maxwell, Well, Blanche, like nineties,
• 13:26
  two thousands or both. Maxwell, I think the two thousands
• 13:30
  actually for that you can date that because it was
• 13:32
  from I think he probably knew Frederick before he dated Elizabeth. Blanche.
• 13:38
  And when you say they were very friendly, did they
• 13:40
  travel together? Maxwell, I don't know if they traveled together.
• 13:43
  I mean Epstein didn't go out very much. I mean
• 13:46
  he did go out, and sometimes if he did, I
• 13:50
  think he would go out with maybe Frederick Fokai. And
• 13:53
  then I mean he had a bunch of guys that
• 13:56
  I know that he would see her meet. But I
• 13:59
  guess now he had new friends. So I don't know.
• 14:02
  Blanche Okay, what are the other names? Maxwell? Okay? So
• 14:06
  Henry Jereki who had an island near his Henry was
• 14:09
  a financier who was the guy who cornered the silver
• 14:12
  market back in the day. Another person we talked about
• 14:15
  all news that we all know about already. Maxwell is
• 14:19
  not some Rosetta Stone. She doesn't have the answers. Instead,
• 14:23
  all she has is more bullshit. Todd Blanche, he had
• 14:27
  an island in the Caribbean near mister Epstein. Maxwell. Yeah,
• 14:31
  in the British Virgin Islands, Blanche Okay, Maxwell, And there
• 14:35
  was Branson's island there. Now I know that there is
• 14:37
  an allegation that they met. I think I remember that
• 14:40
  I went to Richard Branson's island with mister Epstein, and
• 14:43
  maybe he went another time. I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson
• 14:47
  and him as friends, but he did go, and I
• 14:50
  think I went with him, Blanche. Do you know whether
• 14:53
  mister Branson ever came to Epstein's island? Maxwell? If he did,
• 14:57
  I was not there, Blanche. Ok. Maxwell, But it's possible,
• 15:02
  Blanche understood Blanche. Who else? Maxwell, Marvin Minsky. He had
• 15:08
  a group of scientists that he was very, very friendly with,
• 15:11
  all centered around Harvard, So I remember him, Martin Oak,
• 15:14
  who's a mathematician, Stephen J. Gould. I don't know if
• 15:18
  Steven came through the Harvard angle, but I know that
• 15:21
  there was. He would excuse me. Epstein would have dinners
• 15:25
  at his house that I was tasked to organize, and
• 15:27
  that scientists were a very major component of that. These
• 15:31
  weren't social dinners as much as they were scientific. He
• 15:34
  would discuss whatever he would discuss, but if you were
• 15:37
  in the area of brain cognition, he would invite them
• 15:40
  to his house and they would come, all of them,
• 15:43
  any names you can name, they would be there, Blanche.
• 15:46
  So let's talk about that. Those associations or relationships with
• 15:50
  the mathematicians and with Harvard, and I think the MIT
• 15:54
  to some extent as well, Blanche, from what you observed,
• 15:57
  what's the reason behind him developing the those ties with Harvard,
• 16:01
  with MIT and with certain professors and others associated with
• 16:05
  those institutions. Maxwell, he really was profoundly interested in the
• 16:09
  area of science and in the brain. I mean Stephen J.
• 16:14
  Gould or the major scientists of happiness. I mean a
• 16:16
  came I believe from a genuine area of interest. Blanche.
• 16:22
  How did he become friends with them? How was he
• 16:25
  able to spend time with them? Meaning did he donate
• 16:27
  to the university and then they were kind of Maxwell
• 16:31
  certain Blanche cuts are off. It was mandatory fun for them?
• 16:34
  Or did they have relations with them where he would
• 16:37
  you know, Maxwell, I don't know Blanche host them, Maxwell,
• 16:43
  I don't if the chicken or the egg came first, Blanche, Okay,
• 16:47
  But when I first met him, I mean, he was
• 16:49
  already doing a lot of this stuff I've read. So
• 16:52
  this is why I'm saying it. I was not responsible
• 16:55
  for this area of interest. I mean, I certainly sorry
• 16:58
  just to bounce the second before it slipped my mind
• 17:01
  and I leave something out. There was an institute New
• 17:03
  Mexico called Anyone the Institute. It's very famous. We're not
• 17:07
  talking about Alamos Santa Fe Institute. I mean, for real,
• 17:12
  nobody in the room knows. Huh. This is your FBI
• 17:15
  at work, folks. Don't you feel safe anyway? All right,
• 17:18
  there's a very famous institute in New Mexico, so you
• 17:21
  can look it up. It'll come to you at the
• 17:24
  minute you put in your computer. Blanche, Okay, Maxwell, And
• 17:28
  they had some of the biggest brains ever. The relationship
• 17:31
  came through me, that's me, and that's because my father
• 17:34
  was one of the major scientific hit up my family
• 17:37
  fortune when I had one, and it came from scientific
• 17:40
  publishing and when I started from the thing that you
• 17:43
  were asking yesterday. My father was in the Second World War,
• 17:47
  I told you, and he won the Military Cross and
• 17:50
  then he actually did become what was part of the
• 17:52
  intelligence back in the war, and his job was to
• 17:55
  interrogate German scientists and prisoners of war. And then that
• 17:58
  parlayed into business with the Springer of Verlag and into
• 18:01
  the Paragon Press, which was the scientific journal business. And
• 18:07
  he had an interest. He believed that knowledges would prevent
• 18:11
  war and the biggest scientific discoveries, well not all of them,
• 18:15
  but many of them are coming from the Eastern Bloc,
• 18:18
  and that's how we have the relationship with the Santa
• 18:20
  Fe Institute and Murray Gentleman specifically, And I introduced Epstein
• 18:24
  to Murray gentlemen. Sorry to go off on a tangent blanche,
• 18:28
  this is at the Santa Fe Institute. Yes, thank you.
• 18:32
  And Murray Gentleman was there, and Marry Gentleman and Epstein
• 18:35
  got along very very well. You know, they didn't even
• 18:37
  want to talk to me at that place. They were like, look,
• 18:40
  you gotta go, homie, we don't have any time to
• 18:43
  talk to you. Epstein never heard of them. We have
• 18:45
  no idea who that is. But I will say that
• 18:48
  the institute's campus is beautiful, There's no doubt about that.
• 18:51
  For the little bit of time I was there, very
• 18:54
  very nice Maxwell, he was the man. Sorry blind do
• 19:00
  you know whether when you met mister Epstein in the
• 19:03
  early nineties continuing on so not that what he had
• 19:08
  done before. Why do you think from what you saw
• 19:10
  or what you heard, he had a relationship or wanted
• 19:13
  to have the relationship that he had with Harvard and
• 19:16
  with mit Maxwell. So I think that may have come
• 19:20
  with Wexner. I'm not sure, but That's something that I
• 19:22
  think Wexner may have had a relationship with Harvard, and
• 19:25
  that he used that relationship to I believe he funded
• 19:28
  a lot and if he didn't that his clients, of
• 19:32
  which Wexner was obviously one, would fund, he would then
• 19:36
  make he would arrange the fund or to that, Blanche
• 19:39
  cuts her off. Maxwell continues organize the fund or I
• 19:42
  don't know, Blanche, Okay, we'll take a break in a minute,
• 19:47
  but just to kind of set up for what we're
• 19:49
  going to talk about next, we talked yesterday morning about
• 19:53
  mister Epstein's kind of business and how he had money.
• 19:56
  Did he seem to live behind his means as far
• 19:58
  as what he was making? So did you ever get
• 20:01
  the sense while you were with him that it was
• 20:02
  suspicious or curious how he was able to have the
• 20:05
  funds too, you know, by you know, two planes, you know,
• 20:08
  an island and New Mexico, the ranch almost unlimited funds. Maxwell,
• 20:13
  you said it perfectly. I thought it was astonishing, but
• 20:16
  I didn't have any reason to believe that it came
• 20:18
  from anything nefarious. I saw him work. I never saw
• 20:22
  him really do anything other than be on the phone.
• 20:24
  There's that, and he had a lot of meetings, but
• 20:26
  he had a lot of accounts, and he dealt with
• 20:29
  pretty much every financier that you care to mention. And
• 20:32
  if I could have access to those names, I'd be
• 20:34
  able to tell you which ones. I just don't remember
• 20:37
  them all, but in every bank, Goldman, Lehman, all of
• 20:40
  them to my mind anyway, and most of the major businesses.
• 20:43
  At the time, he was in the Council of Foreign Relations,
• 20:46
  so you had access. That's an extraordinary list of people.
• 20:50
  It just is you asked me about his So I
• 20:53
  thought about it last night. How to try and explain
• 20:56
  what it was, And I think the best thing is
• 20:58
  to focus only on what Shner's business. So I was
• 21:02
  present for some of their meetings in some of their businesses,
• 21:05
  and I listened, and so those things that I personally
• 21:07
  recollect and I know I heard was that he would
• 21:11
  when I told you yesterday, I think that he would
• 21:13
  no detail was too small. He would do contracts with
• 21:16
  the staff, I think, and I saw that myself. And
• 21:19
  he also organized all the trusts for all the children.
• 21:22
  So if Wexner had kids, I don't know if he did.
• 21:25
  He did have children, so every time there was a
• 21:28
  child he would create a trust for that child. These
• 21:31
  were complex financial structures that would contain stocks of the
• 21:34
  various businesses he restructured. When I was there, Wexner's business
• 21:38
  in its entirety, as I recollect, and then not only that,
• 21:42
  but there were the business interests. So Wexner owned or
• 21:45
  built or designed, or I don't know quite how to
• 21:48
  characterize it. But New Albany, which is the center outside
• 21:51
  of Ohio, Columbus, Ohio specifically, I remember this conversation. He
• 21:56
  built himself a very large house, like truly enormous, and
• 21:59
  it's one of the biggest private homes I've ever been to.
• 22:02
  And he built all the houses around him, and I'm like,
• 22:05
  this is so random. Why would you do that? And
• 22:08
  he said to me, well, because I want to make
• 22:09
  sure that the people around me are my friends. I
• 22:12
  want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
• 22:15
  was like, well, whatever, okay. You know, I've been around
• 22:18
  enormous wealth my whole life, and at some point I
• 22:21
  just say, okay, whatever, I get it, and I don't.
• 22:23
  And so that's what he did. But Epstein ran New Aubany,
• 22:27
  which included a country club and a golf club. I
• 22:29
  mean gosh, your boss is one of the all time greats.
• 22:32
  You know, businessmen in this area. You know what that is,
• 22:35
  and he certainly does. So there be that. And there
• 22:38
  was a business that Epstein Well, he told me he
• 22:41
  owned it, but of course I can't say that for
• 22:43
  sure because I don't know. But it's a sports thing, Riddell.
• 22:46
  Is that a business, Rye Dell? I thought about it
• 22:49
  last night. It's red and had hats helmets. Rye Dell's
• 22:53
  Leasafi and Rye Dell Maxwell, Rye Dell, Yeah right, Dell's Blanche. Okay,
• 22:58
  So now he owned that, well, he told me he
• 23:00
  owned it, But how he owned it, I don't know.
• 23:03
  But that was before I think I came in and
• 23:06
  he had it, or he said he had it. Blanche
• 23:08
  got it Maxwell, and he had other businesses. I know.
• 23:12
  This notion that he did nothing and he just was
• 23:14
  a grifter and whatnot. I'm not going to say that's
• 23:17
  not true, but it's not what I saw, and it's
• 23:19
  not what I believe is true, not because it couldn't
• 23:23
  have been that he didn't grift or whatever the word
• 23:25
  is off. But I saw where I thought looked like
• 23:28
  real work. Blanche well why don't we take a break, okay,
• 23:32
  David Marcus, Yeah, thank you. Spencer Horn, all right, the
• 23:35
  time is now ten thirty five, and we'll take a break.
• 23:38
  And I think that's the perfect time for us to
• 23:40
  take a break as well. So we're gonna wrap up
• 23:43
  right here and in the next episode dealing with the topic,
• 23:46
  we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of
• 23:49
  the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 23:52
  in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to
• 23:54
  another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're
• 23:58
  gonna pick up where we left off with the fireside
• 24:01
  chat between Glayne Maxwell and Baby Billy Blanche Spencer Horne
• 24:08
  were resuming from break. The time is ten forty nine
• 24:11
  on Friday, July twenty fifth. Blanche, okay, all right, So
• 24:14
  we've talked about this issue, talked about it a little bit.
• 24:18
  I want to spend the next hour or so, or
• 24:20
  however long it takes. I want to talk and focus
• 24:24
  kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his criminal conduct
• 24:27
  with respect to women. You said yesterday a couple of
• 24:30
  times that like you now kind of recognize or think
• 24:33
  that there were things that he did that you didn't
• 24:35
  know about and that he kept from you, or that
• 24:38
  you didn't see. What did you see so you said yesterday,
• 24:42
  I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but
• 24:44
  at some point he was getting massages seven days a week,
• 24:47
  sometimes multiple massages a day. Women have said that, they
• 24:52
  say that they were giving him massages, said that those
• 24:54
  included some sort of sexual conduct. However, you define that
• 24:58
  in the broadest sense just traditional massage regularly. So what
• 25:03
  did you see and here at the time? And then
• 25:06
  I think aside from what you saw and heard at
• 25:08
  the time, now that you've been through what you've been through,
• 25:11
  and heard people say what they've said and read what
• 25:14
  they've read, what do you where does that leave you
• 25:17
  in your mind with what happened? Maxwell? Okay, So I
• 25:20
  saw Epstein with women. I mean what I mean by
• 25:23
  that is he would have women around them, or women
• 25:26
  on the plane, or women in his house. And that's
• 25:28
  how I'm explaining that those women were very interested. My
• 25:32
  characterization of the interest, the relationship between all the women
• 25:36
  that I saw with them was characterized by excuse me,
• 25:39
  their interest in him as I would see it, And
• 25:42
  by that I mean I never saw anybody who didn't
• 25:44
  want to be with them and be with them maybe
• 25:47
  socially or whatever. I never saw anybody not under any
• 25:50
  form of duress in any type of situation where they were,
• 25:54
  as I would characterize it, looking uncomfortable or in any
• 25:57
  way distressed in the entire time I was with him
• 26:00
  or traveled with them. I never saw that. So anytime
• 26:04
  I saw anybody with him, they were happy to be
• 26:06
  with him. He would ask people all the time, whoever
• 26:09
  you were, to massage his feet. He'd be sitting there
• 26:12
  and he'd have somebody massage his feet or squeeze his shoulders.
• 26:16
  I saw that a lot. It was ubiquitous interaction, if
• 26:19
  you will. So I did see that. I saw physicality,
• 26:22
  but not anything I don't know how to characterize it.
• 26:25
  Anything that looked aggressive I supposed to define that. So
• 26:29
  I never saw an aggressive move Maxwell. I never saw anything,
• 26:33
  Blanche interrupts non consensual Maxwell, thank you, Okay. I never
• 26:38
  saw anything that was non consensual. Well maybe they didn't.
• 26:41
  I never saw anything that looked like they didn't like
• 26:44
  the hug or. I never saw what I would characterize
• 26:46
  as anything that was non consensual. Blanche, did you see
• 26:50
  him either receiving or participating in sexual conduct during massages.
• 26:54
  Understanding you never saw something non consensual. Did you see
• 26:57
  him engage in sexual conduct during massage? Is Maxwell? Well,
• 27:01
  you could define sexual conduct as in I did see
• 27:05
  women who could have been, you know, less than normally
• 27:07
  clad for massages, but especially on the island where there
• 27:11
  would be in bikini or possibly even topless. Yeah, I
• 27:13
  did see that, so you would blanche. Yes, I agree,
• 27:18
  that's one area. So women who were either not clothed
• 27:22
  or topless with just the bottom one. But beyond that,
• 27:24
  did you see as part of him touching them? And again,
• 27:27
  I'm not talking about consent or non consent or age,
• 27:30
  you know, I'm saying like there's multiple, multiple, you know,
• 27:33
  dozens and dozens of women who have said that they
• 27:36
  were that they engaged in sexual contact. And I agree
• 27:40
  there's a broad range of what how that can be defined,
• 27:43
  but defining it in the broadest of terms, Maxwell, So
• 27:47
  him being physical with women, I did see that, but
• 27:49
  nothing that was not consensual. And to address the issue
• 27:53
  of the large number of women who today say that
• 27:55
  he was non consensual course of with them, I'm not
• 27:58
  sure in my mind, I sort of have to characterize
• 28:01
  the two distinct areas. There's one where is the women
• 28:05
  who are not of age. Therefore anything with them is
• 28:08
  immediately unconsensual. Correct, Yeah, Maxwell, So let's start. I want
• 28:13
  to define anyone who's underage versus anybody who's overage, because
• 28:17
  I don't think there's anybody very significant differential between the two.
• 28:22
  So does the law Maxwell? Yeah, Okay, Blanche, Yeah, Maxwell,
• 28:26
  I don't mean that, Blanche. No, No, I'm not trying
• 28:28
  to be smart, Blanche. I agree with you, Yes, I
• 28:31
  agree with you. Yeah, yeah, Maxwell. So I want to
• 28:34
  deal with the thing which is really why we're here.
• 28:37
  I mean, not that I'm going to deal with the other,
• 28:39
  but I just Blanche, Yeah, want to make a distinction
• 28:42
  with underage situation, because there's nothing about that that's right.
• 28:46
  I never saw anything with anybody who is certainly to
• 28:48
  be categorical in my life from my trial. Let's deal
• 28:52
  with that, because that's something that I can say. I
• 28:54
  never saw that with them. You abuse them, you fucking liar,
• 28:58
  you fork tongue, serpent. A jury of your peers thought otherwise,
• 29:04
  And I would say that as described anyway in my
• 29:07
  child did not happen as described. I'm not saying that
• 29:09
  mister Epstein did not do those things. I'm not going
• 29:12
  to say. I don't feel comfortable saying that today, given
• 29:15
  what I know to be true, So I'm not here
• 29:17
  to defend them. But what I can say is that
• 29:20
  I did not participate in that activity, Blanche. So let's
• 29:23
  divide this into two areas. Maybe there's more, but we'll
• 29:26
  start with two areas. One is, there was testimony, and
• 29:30
  there's certainly been depositions in public statements that some of
• 29:34
  these young women had conversations with you about their age. So,
• 29:37
  for example, conversations about the fact that they were in
• 29:39
  high school, or conversations about the fact that they wanted
• 29:42
  to go to college one day, which would necessarily mean,
• 29:45
  well not necessarily, but would be more likely to mean
• 29:48
  that they were in high school when they talk to
• 29:50
  you about that. And so were there times were there
• 29:53
  women that you knew were under age? And I say
• 29:56
  that because that's different than whether they were sexually abused
• 30:00
  in any way by mister Epstein, just merely their age
• 30:03
  and going to give them a massage. Maxwell, No, I
• 30:06
  never knew that. I can categorically state that I had
• 30:09
  any child said to me that they were fourteen fifteen, sixteen,
• 30:12
  maybe not seventeen, because seventeen in England. I mean, if
• 30:16
  someone had said they were seventeen, I don't but I've
• 30:19
  read so much that that didn't happen. I don't care
• 30:22
  what happens in England. Is it legal here? No? Well,
• 30:25
  go back to England and abuse all the seventeen year
• 30:28
  olds you want. You'll fit right in over there, with
• 30:30
  all those grooming gangs they have. I mean, I just
• 30:34
  I would never have permitted such a thing. I don't
• 30:37
  even know what I would have done. Oh we know, Glane,
• 30:40
  you'd partake in the abuse. How do we know? And
• 30:43
  how do we know? Well, your bitch ass was convicted, Blanche,
• 30:48
  So I think even someone who testified at trial but
• 30:52
  certainly have publicly talked about was as young as fourteen
• 30:55
  when she was introduced to mister Epstein. You kind of
• 30:59
  rejected that happened, that you saw that, meaning you don't
• 31:02
  recall any obviously under eighteen women coming to give him
• 31:05
  a massage. Maxwell, Well, I believe you're talking about Jane
• 31:09
  and I'm Blanche. Yeah, Maxwell, I'm happy to address that.
• 31:13
  I actually don't think that the testimony is correct, Blanche. Yeah, Look,
• 31:17
  I don't. Maxwell, No, no, no, I just wanted to
• 31:20
  tell you, Blanche, I don't want to get into Maxwell.
• 31:24
  I'm not Blanche, he said. She said, Maxwell, absolutely not.
• 31:29
  I don't want to go there either, Blanche, Okay, Maxwell,
• 31:32
  I'm not going to do that. But I believe that
• 31:34
  what took place with a lot of these people is
• 31:37
  that there was a slide, right, So there was a zone.
• 31:40
  And he did meet her, and I did meet her,
• 31:42
  and I knew that she was a young child, and
• 31:44
  I knew that she was not an adult. But I
• 31:46
  don't believe he met her till she was sixteen. I'm
• 31:49
  not doing it, he said. She said, I'm not doing
• 31:52
  that because nobody will. That's not what we're here for. Okay, Blanche, Okay, Maxwell.
• 31:56
  But he didn't meet her till she was sixteen, and
• 31:59
  the entire testimony of the fourteen, fifteen, and sixteen year
• 32:02
  old is therefore not accurate. What about all the girls
• 32:05
  from the high schools you filed? Disgusting? Bitch? God, I
• 32:09
  hate to use that word, but it fits perfectly for
• 32:11
  Glenn Maxwell. I usually would use Skefuzzi here, but you know,
• 32:16
  let's change it up a little bit. Did I meet
• 32:20
  her when she was sixteen with her mother. I absolutely did,
• 32:23
  and did I know that she was young? I absolutely did.
• 32:26
  But everything that took place that was alleged a trial
• 32:29
  at the fourteen and fifteen and sixteen is not accurate. Blanche.
• 32:34
  There's testimony, and again I'm using testimony in the broadest sense.
• 32:38
  Some of this is just public statements or something that's
• 32:41
  come out in civil lawsuits about you and mister Epstein
• 32:44
  giving like eighteen, You're turning eighteen birthday card to somebody, which, again,
• 32:48
  if true, would by definition mean that you knew she
• 32:51
  was under eighteen. Do you recall doing that, Maxwell, I
• 32:54
  do not, I mean no memory of that at all.
• 32:57
  I believe that would be the person that called herself
• 32:59
  Kate has now announced herself in her own podcast for
• 33:03
  who she really is. Her name is redacted, so I
• 33:06
  did not meet redacted until actually she was either twenty
• 33:09
  or twenty one, so it would be very hard for
• 33:11
  me to have given her an eighteen year birthday card.
• 33:14
  And the testimony there is also, Blanche. Do you accept
• 33:18
  Maxwell that slid back, Blanche? Do you accept that at
• 33:21
  some point? And we talked about this yesterday about how
• 33:24
  mister Epstein changed but at some point mister Epstein definitely
• 33:28
  preferred younger women. Maxwell, I accept, Blanche, and I think
• 33:32
  you said yesterday, but say it again since we're talking
• 33:34
  about it. Is that something that you in your mind
• 33:38
  one of the areas where it changed from when you
• 33:40
  first met him until later. Maxwell, I just also want
• 33:43
  to be clear. I never understood that change. Who encompassed children.
• 33:47
  I did see from when I met him he was involved,
• 33:50
  involved or friends with or whatever, however you want to
• 33:53
  characterize it with women who are in their twenties and
• 33:56
  then the slide to you know, eighteen or younger looking women.
• 33:59
  But I never considered that this would encompass criminal behavior, Blanche.
• 34:03
  And so when you read I guess two different times right.
• 34:06
  One was during the Florida investigation Maxwell, Yes, Blanche, there
• 34:10
  were eventually public statements from some of these now women
• 34:13
  who testified about what they did with mister Ebstein when
• 34:16
  they were under eighteen. At that point, did you realize
• 34:19
  or did you think to yourself, this happened, or this
• 34:21
  could have happened. I missed it, or were you at
• 34:24
  that point still in the mindset that you were either
• 34:26
  not telling the truth or were not remembering what happened
• 34:29
  the way that it actually happened. Maxwell, That's a very
• 34:33
  fair question. So I think that my view of this
• 34:35
  at the time to call it as contemporaneously as it did,
• 34:40
  because I don't think that the stuff came out in public, right.
• 34:43
  I mean, they may have read things, but I don't.
• 34:45
  Blanche cuts her off. Yeah, that's fair. Maxwell. Memory of
• 34:48
  that is that trial. But my viewpoint, if you will,
• 34:51
  was set from the minute that redacted Widener civil deposition,
• 34:55
  you mean, the one that you got charged with perjury for.
• 34:57
  Did Glenn Maxwell really think she was going to get
• 34:59
  an narrative here without anybody challenging it? And I could
• 35:04
  never recover from that, Blanche, What which lie? What are
• 35:08
  you referring to Maxwell? Her entire characterization? Blanche Okay, I
• 35:13
  don't remember how she came and whether I did, Blanche,
• 35:16
  I see Maxwell, But I'm talking about the first time
• 35:19
  she came to Epstein's house, Blanche, okay, Maxwell to be false.
• 35:23
  So from that first lie of that description, I could
• 35:26
  never recover from that, Blanche, I understand, Maxwell, And that tinted. Sorry,
• 35:33
  so that we're clear it tainted the testimony of everybody
• 35:37
  else that I saw that came post that because I
• 35:39
  had my own personal experience, which I knew to be false, Blanche.
• 35:44
  And the reason why I think and I said to
• 35:46
  mister Marcus this morning that we were going to talk
• 35:49
  about this, because when I think about you and the
• 35:52
  public's perception of mister Epstein, the public is left with
• 35:55
  the view that nobody in his world knows what really
• 35:57
  happened except for you. Okay, and now you explained the
• 36:00
  last day and a half, how some of that's just
• 36:03
  a misperception because you didn't have a key to his house,
• 36:07
  you weren't around as much as maybe everybody claims you were. Okay,
• 36:10
  but there still is this perception out there. If we
• 36:14
  could talk to miss Maxwell, we would know how horrible
• 36:16
  mister Epstein was, or how misperceived he was, whatever the
• 36:19
  truth is about mister Epstein. And the challenge in my
• 36:22
  mind I told you I would tell you when I
• 36:24
  had issues, And the challenge in my mind is that
• 36:27
  so many women have said that mister Epstein's actually assaulted them,
• 36:30
  whether juveniles or adults. That's persuasive, right, That's what happened Maxwell, Okay,
• 36:36
  so Blanche, and so that's persuasive. And I think it's
• 36:40
  without beyond contestation that he preferred younger women Maxwell, I Blanche,
• 36:46
  And it's also beyond I think at this point there
• 36:49
  were certainly circumstances that underage women. Well, I don't want
• 36:52
  to say that you agree with me on that. I
• 36:55
  certainly believe that there were younger women that were abused
• 36:58
  by them, Okay, Son. And to the layer that I
• 37:01
  want you that I really want to have a frank
• 37:03
  discussion about, is some of these women have said, oh, yes,
• 37:06
  you know, miss Maxwell was there, you know and to
• 37:08
  varying degrees, she saw me there, the door was opened
• 37:11
  when I was there, and then much more egregious right
• 37:15
  that you participated and that you were part of it.
• 37:17
  And so what I really want you to have an
• 37:20
  opportunity to say to us is where on the spectrum
• 37:23
  the truth is? Why do we need to hear that
• 37:27
  she's convicted of doing this? She had her chance to
• 37:30
  speak in court, she didn't do that, Her lawyers couldn't
• 37:32
  make the case. Nobody believed her. So why are you
• 37:35
  giving her this platform? Now? What do we get out
• 37:38
  of it as the taxpayer? What does America get out
• 37:41
  of it? And what does the survivors get out of it.
• 37:44
  We all know what Maxwell's getting out of it, We
• 37:46
  know what the Administration's getting out of it. But what
• 37:48
  about the rest of us, whether it's somewhere in the middle,
• 37:52
  whether it's one extreme or another extreme. In my mind,
• 37:55
  I'm talking about ninety four or ninety five to whenever,
• 37:58
  late nineties or early two thousand, Marcus, and let me
• 38:01
  just interrupt. All I would say is we're not here
• 38:05
  to say anything one way or the other about Epstein.
• 38:08
  I agree with you that the evidence is overwhelming against him.
• 38:11
  He is his own person and has to deal with that.
• 38:13
  But Colaine can speak about what she knows. Blanche, Yeah, Marcus,
• 38:18
  and from her point of view and what she did,
• 38:21
  and that's what you can talk about. Colane, Todd, Blanche. Okay,
• 38:25
  all right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
• 38:27
  in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
• 38:29
  pick up where we left off. All of the information
• 38:32
  that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 38:35
  description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode
• 38:38
  of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking back
• 38:41
  up Woory left off with Glene Maxwell's fireside chat with Todd,
• 38:47
  Baby Billy Blanche and the DOJ Maxwell. So I think
• 38:52
  it's helpful to put this on, you know, the time
• 38:54
  on the calendar, because I think without that we're lost.
• 38:57
  So I would say we'll go from the beginning of
• 38:59
  ninety one, no ninety two, no, ninety three, no ninety four,
• 39:03
  no ninety five, no, ninety six. No. In that timeframe,
• 39:07
  you have the allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I
• 39:10
  don't think he met her until she was to that
• 39:13
  Blanche cuts her off. Let's not talk about individuals. Maxwell, No, no, no,
• 39:17
  I'm just saying, Blanche. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm sure
• 39:20
  you are, Baby, Billy Blanche. You should be with the
• 39:23
  survivors and the people of the United States, you know,
• 39:26
  the country that put Clin Maxwell behind bars. Probably a
• 39:29
  good idea, Blanche, Okay, Maxwell. I'm aware of a girl
• 39:33
  redacted who said, but redacted and redacted. I don't know
• 39:37
  any of the others. If there are other people who
• 39:39
  are making allegations, I'm not even I'm not actually aware
• 39:43
  of them. I may have read them, but I don't know.
• 39:46
  So I think in the early nineties period, I think
• 39:48
  I'm fairly confident and I can say that, at least
• 39:51
  as characterized. It's just it's just false. It didn't happen,
• 39:55
  as said. Now did it happen? Did he involve himself?
• 40:00
  I knew about Jane because I saw her come to
• 40:02
  the house, but I saw her with her mother. I
• 40:05
  know that her allegations are that there were orgies, for instance,
• 40:08
  but the people that she suggests were in oorgies didn't
• 40:11
  even work for Epstein until ninety eight or ninety nine.
• 40:13
  Did he do orgies with those people? I don't know
• 40:16
  anybody who was there who said that they did. I
• 40:18
  certainly didn't see it. I can't say that that happened.
• 40:22
  Did she do it with someone else? I don't know.
• 40:24
  The stories really start, the allegations really begin with redacted,
• 40:29
  and I think that you have to shift his behavior
• 40:32
  such as it was Barr. There was one in California
• 40:35
  who made an allegation. There was a woman who said
• 40:37
  that she I didn't know about, So I think I
• 40:40
  would call her the first person I'd be aware of
• 40:43
  him using his position to the first person. What about
• 40:46
  Maria Farmer? You know, the lady that you talk to
• 40:48
  all the time, the one who worked in Epstein's office.
• 40:51
  You know the sister who you molested. How about her,
• 40:55
  Glenn Maxwell, Blanche, And sorry to you, but I just
• 41:01
  I don't I don't want to have you. I don't
• 41:02
  think it's helpful for us. Maxwell. Have you kind of
• 41:05
  address each allegation? Yeah? No, shit, she's gonna perjure herself.
• 41:10
  Blanche knows that, and he's guiding her, which she shouldn't
• 41:13
  be doing. By the way, Maxwell, Okay, Blanche, I want
• 41:17
  to clear your mind and just tell you the truth
• 41:19
  about it. So I'm not saying you're not telling the truth.
• 41:22
  I'm saying just putting aside what other people have said,
• 41:26
  or what their lawyers have said, or what they testified
• 41:28
  to or you know, the rumors in the press. Push
• 41:31
  those aside. You were there, Okay, what about what she
• 41:34
  was convicted of? That's what matters, right, So, like I
• 41:38
  was saying previously, why don't we just have l Choppo
• 41:41
  get up here and tell us his side of the story.
• 41:46
  Would that convince anybody? So why would anyone think that
• 41:49
  Galayne Maxwell getting up here and waxing fucking poetic is
• 41:53
  going to change anybody's opinion? And So when you go
• 41:55
  back to that time period ninety two ninety three, ninety nine,
• 41:58
  two thousand, two thousand and one. During that time period,
• 42:01
  what did you see when it comes to young women
• 42:03
  and massages? Maxwell? All right, sorry, all right. So I
• 42:07
  saw him receive massages. He had read regular messuses in
• 42:10
  the nineties, people who were standard and who traveled with them.
• 42:13
  And I saw that he was living in the Iranian house.
• 42:17
  And now that I look back, I didn't stay there,
• 42:19
  but I would go to manage the house. I would
• 42:22
  see women, models or people that he would have come
• 42:24
  to the house. You mean, like the underage models from
• 42:27
  mc squared that we heard about in the deposition. Are
• 42:31
  those the messuses you're talking about? And then Maxwell has
• 42:34
  the audacity to say she had no idea about what
• 42:37
  was going on at the house. Really, these girls were
• 42:39
  living there, these models were living there, these young girls,
• 42:42
  And we got that information directly from the source. And
• 42:46
  unlike other people, I've already provided that receipt, I know
• 42:52
  that he thought he was with Eva still at the time,
• 42:55
  That's what I believed, and then subsequently believed that even
• 42:58
  though she married him, I actually sawbsequently believed that the
• 43:01
  baby she had was his Marcus. Can I interrupt for
• 43:04
  one second, Blanche, Yeah, of course, Marcus, can I just
• 43:07
  ask some basic top line questions Maxwell? Yes, Marcus, were
• 43:11
  you ever in a massage room with him in a messus? Maxwell? Yes? Marcus, okay?
• 43:16
  Who and when was that? Maxwell? Well, he would come
• 43:19
  in sometimes and he would say, like give her a
• 43:22
  massage here, or he would grab you know, but not often.
• 43:25
  I mean he did come in from time to time. Marcus,
• 43:28
  were you ever in a massage room with him with
• 43:31
  a massus that was naked or giving him sexual favors? Maxwell?
• 43:34
  I never saw that? Perjury once again, David Marcus, Okay, Maxwell,
• 43:39
  that I remember? Marcus. Okay, did you did any of
• 43:43
  the messuses ever discuss with you giving that they gave
• 43:46
  sexual favors to Epstein? Maxwell? No? Marcus, okay, did you
• 43:50
  ever see an underage girl go into a massage room
• 43:52
  with mister Epstein? Maxwell? No? Perjury again? And why is
• 43:56
  Marcus asking the questions? Are we having a sit in
• 43:59
  chat with Glenn Maxwell? Another ted talk? Marcus? If you
• 44:03
  had seen that, what would you have done? Would you
• 44:05
  have left? Maxwell? I can't even conceive. I can't imagine
• 44:08
  what I would have done. You would have joined in
• 44:10
  like you did with Annie Farmer. You sick molester, you
• 44:13
  child abuse her, you bipedal serpent. Marcus, all right, I'm sorry, Blanche. No, No,
• 44:18
  that's okay, Marcus. Okay, Baby Billy Blanche. Did you ever
• 44:23
  observe mister Epstein masturbating during a massage? Maxwell? Yes, I
• 44:26
  mean when i'd seen him on a massage table, I
• 44:29
  had seen a masturbate. I don't know if there was
• 44:31
  a massus present, but I've seen him on a massage Blanche. Okay, Maxwell, Sorry,
• 44:37
  I just Blanche, did you ever see a masturbate with
• 44:40
  a massuse, you know, with a naked woman, either giving
• 44:43
  him a massage or reporting to give him a massage? Maxwell,
• 44:46
  I don't remember seeing that. Oh no, of course not.
• 44:49
  Has she given them any bit of actionable intelligence? No,
• 44:52
  So why did you get moved? Is Baby Billy Blanche
• 44:56
  and his buddy Donnie Diddle's ever going to answer that?
• 44:59
  Or are they just going to keep kicking the can
• 45:01
  down the road and telling us to move on? Blanche?
• 45:05
  Did you give him a massage? By the way, I
• 45:07
  mean there's a photo of you rubbing his feet, I
• 45:09
  think Maxwell, I certainly have been in the massage room
• 45:12
  with him, and I have certainly rubbed his feet. We're talking,
• 45:15
  but I was not a massuse and I didn't perform
• 45:17
  massage on him. Neither were the young girls from Palm
• 45:20
  Beach that you were bringing in three out of time.
• 45:22
  But they give massages, didn't they, Glaine Fucking Maxwell, Blanche,
• 45:28
  did you during or over the years, did you pay
• 45:31
  the messus? Maxwell? It was typically not my job, but
• 45:34
  if there was nobody else normally, so in Palm Beach,
• 45:37
  the houseman would give the money, and to New York
• 45:40
  he would do that because I wouldn't be in New York.
• 45:43
  I don't remember ever paying a massuse in New York, Blanche.
• 45:46
  So it wasn't Maxwell, but maybe Blanche. It wasn't your job, Maxwell,
• 45:51
  no Blanche on a regular math basis to pay the massus.
• 45:56
  So if there was a massus seven days a week,
• 45:58
  it wasn't expected that seven days a week, you would
• 46:01
  be the one handing the money. Maxwell. Mostly I would not.
• 46:04
  I'm not saying I never did it, because that wouldn't
• 46:07
  be true, but it was not my job to pay them.
• 46:09
  I mostly recall he would either pay them himself he
• 46:12
  would have money, or the houseman, and I think some
• 46:14
  of them would probably receive checks, Blanche, and so just
• 46:18
  picking up on what mister Marcus was just asking you,
• 46:21
  did you participate in sexual activity with them, with the
• 46:24
  messus like at the time, No, Maxwell says Blanche. I
• 46:30
  don't know if there's testimony, but the women who have
• 46:32
  said that that happened categorically that's not true. Maxwell, that
• 46:36
  is categorically not true. So she's calling the people who
• 46:40
  were abused by Jeffrey Epstein liars and not being challenged
• 46:43
  by Todd Blanche, and frankly, anybody who thinks this is
• 46:47
  acceptable is a gigantic piece of shit because this is
• 46:51
  not acceptable. This isn't how it's supposed to work. Blanche,
• 46:54
  did you moving past and moving into the two thousands, Maxwell,
• 46:58
  I mean, I just want to say that. I mean,
• 47:00
  I remember there'd be times when he'd be getting a
• 47:02
  massage and I'd be in the room. I could be
• 47:05
  on his feet, and somebody else could be on his
• 47:07
  feet and we could be talking. So there's that, Blanche.
• 47:12
  But your Maxwell, Yeah, Blanche, you're not talking about something
• 47:16
  that's sexual. You're talking about literally just rubbing his feet. Maxwell. Yes, Blanche, okay, Maxwell,
• 47:22
  But I mean Blanche cuts her off, But That's not
• 47:24
  what I'm talking about. Maxwell. Okay, Well, sometimes the woman
• 47:28
  might be topless, who are giving that? So you could
• 47:31
  say that was a sexual in that context, Blanche. No,
• 47:34
  I'm talking about the repeated reports of certain sex acts
• 47:37
  happening with you present and even participating, Maxwell, No, in
• 47:43
  the two thousand time period. So moving a little bit
• 47:45
  more recently, when you talked about it yesterday about how
• 47:48
  your relationship with mister Epstein changed and was changing and
• 47:52
  you ultimately met somebody else, did you observe any you know,
• 47:55
  massages or young woman giving him massages later on? So
• 47:59
  after two thousand, two thousand and one time period, Maxwell,
• 48:02
  I'm sure I did, Blanche. And was there anything different
• 48:05
  about what you observed during that period in the nineties
• 48:08
  as far as the frequency his conduct towards them? And
• 48:11
  you see what he's doing here, right, He's trying to
• 48:13
  give her a cover story saying that Jeffrey Epstein wasn't
• 48:16
  the man that everybody says he is when he was
• 48:19
  with Glaine. But the transformation happened after Glaine. The only
• 48:23
  problem is the evidence tells us something different. Baby Billy, Maxwell,
• 48:29
  I think the frequency increased. I think he went from
• 48:32
  one to two in that time period, but I did
• 48:34
  not see I have no recollection of ever seeing a
• 48:37
  child entering the house and giving him a massage. At
• 48:40
  that time, he had moved me out of the main house.
• 48:43
  I moved into an office with John Alessi, the former butler,
• 48:46
  under the stairs, so I had an office where I
• 48:49
  would be that was not part of the house. If
• 48:52
  I saw people, and I'm not saying I didn't see
• 48:54
  people come and give him a massage, that wouldn't be
• 48:56
  true either. But if I saw someone, I wouldn't. I
• 49:00
  don't remember ever seeing anybody that I would characterize as
• 49:03
  a child. No, well, we know that you don't think
• 49:05
  teenagers or children. You sick demented witch, specifically someone who
• 49:10
  accused me of seeing her at the time when she came.
• 49:13
  Did you see Annie Farmer? Yes or no? That should
• 49:15
  be a question that's asked, Hey, Gleanne Maxwell, you were
• 49:19
  convicted of molesting Annie Farmer. Did you do it? And
• 49:23
  if we had a real deputy attorney general, those are
• 49:26
  the kind of questions that would be asked, But instead
• 49:29
  we're stuck with this lamb ass todd baby Billy Blanche.
• 49:34
  If I did see her and I don't believe I
• 49:35
  did see her or meet her at all. But if
• 49:37
  she did, she described herself now she was very mature
• 49:41
  and looked in her twenties. So could somebody have come
• 49:44
  that was more mature looking than the allegation of what
• 49:46
  she did look like with a photograph that was produced
• 49:48
  as evidence. Yes, But I never recall at any time
• 49:53
  seeing what I would characterize as a child coming to
• 49:55
  give him a massage and going upstairs. Did I see
• 49:58
  people come? Absolutely did? I just didn't see children. I
• 50:02
  didn't see anybody I would think of as a child.
• 50:05
  And if I had seen a child, I'm not sure
• 50:07
  that what I would have done. You would have got
• 50:09
  in on it, That's what you would have done. What
• 50:12
  about the fifteen year old Swedish girl? What about her?
• 50:15
  Kallaine Maxwell nothing to say about that? Huh oh wait,
• 50:19
  she'd have to be asked about that, and we all
• 50:21
  know that that's not gonna happen. Blanche, just talking like
• 50:26
  coming out a little bit of just bigger picture at
• 50:29
  the time that you were in his life. Did he
• 50:32
  seem to you to be a sexual deviant or know
• 50:36
  what the right way to describe it is. But when
• 50:38
  you say to me, he was getting massages every single day, right,
• 50:41
  So young women were everywhere, multiple massages on some days.
• 50:45
  Flew with the women to the island, to New York, Paris.
• 50:47
  There's always women, there is always rubbing them, giving them massages.
• 50:52
  It would be an understatement to say that that's not normal. Maxwell.
• 50:56
  I agree, Blanche. We've all kind of been part of
• 50:59
  the EPSO story over the past several years. But you
• 51:02
  were there all the time. Okay, oh stop at Blanche.
• 51:05
  You don't know the first thing about the first thing.
• 51:07
  Even with all those DJ files, with all those people
• 51:10
  quote unquote bringing you up to speed, you still have
• 51:12
  no idea what you're talking about. What was it like
• 51:16
  at the time? I mean, was he a creepy guy
• 51:18
  when it came to that sort of thing. He was
• 51:21
  he protective of how he looked publicly image wise like
• 51:24
  at the time. What was it like, Maxwell? I think
• 51:26
  if he had been creepy like as you would define
• 51:29
  and would expect someone who was living that lifestyle to
• 51:31
  be creepy, I don't think the woman would have been there.
• 51:35
  I don't think that they thought of them as creepy,
• 51:38
  And if they did, I never saw them behave like
• 51:40
  he was being weird. Was it a lot, Yes, it
• 51:43
  was for sure. I found it overwhelming, and I could
• 51:46
  understand why it was interesting, because to me, it's not interesting.
• 51:50
  You see how she's setting herself up without any challenge whatsoever.
• 51:54
  This is like the reverse of a grand jury hearing.
• 51:57
  During the grand jury testimony, the prosecution presents all the
• 52:00
  evidence without any challenge. Well, the same thing's happening here,
• 52:03
  but in reverse. But he as he defined it, he
• 52:08
  found it invigorating. He liked being with younger people, and
• 52:11
  not just younger people. I'm just saying, because they gave
• 52:13
  him ideas and they were up to date on music
• 52:16
  and Todd. Blanche. Yeah, that's different, like a messuse coming
• 52:19
  every day. Maxwell. I'm just telling you what he's saying
• 52:22
  to me. Blanche, Yeah, Maxwell, to me, I just found
• 52:27
  it a dragon, difficult and annoying. Maxwell. But understand I
• 52:32
  wasn't the only person present. So this time in the
• 52:34
  two thousands, you're talking about other people like Sarah Kellen
• 52:37
  who was around, who interface with them. She was really
• 52:40
  interfacing with Epstein at this point in time in his life.
• 52:43
  She was his assistant, and so I didn't have to Blanche.
• 52:46
  That's a fair point, But move beyond his assistants or
• 52:49
  the folks that work with them. What about his friends
• 52:51
  and the people that were associated with them. You know,
• 52:53
  the people that were working with them were his co conspirators.
• 52:56
  Todd fucking Blanche, are you kidding me? Right now? All
• 53:00
  the entire things a big ass joke, and every single
• 53:03
  dollar that was wasted on it should be given back.
• 53:06
  Doge should look into this. Where's that dude? Big balls?
• 53:10
  In reality, what should happen is the circus music should
• 53:13
  key up, because that's what this is, a circus being
• 53:16
  run by clowns. I don't understand how this is an
• 53:22
  after fact of mister Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida,
• 53:26
  it becomes part of his story, and then later on
• 53:28
  he's charged in the Southern District, and then here we
• 53:31
  are now in twenty twenty five. But he was a
• 53:33
  very successful, hard working guy, and he had a lot
• 53:35
  of clients, and he flew them on vacations and went
• 53:38
  to the island. I don't understand how he was able
• 53:41
  to hide this what seems to me to be some
• 53:43
  sort of sexual fixation. Maxwell, I don't she gets cut
• 53:47
  off from others. Maxwell I don't think he did hide it,
• 53:50
  that's the answer. And I think that the people around him,
• 53:53
  I think myself included Blanche. Yeah, Maxwell obviously normalized his
• 53:57
  behavior on a number of fronts. Well she finally he
• 54:00
  fucking admitted it. You were culpable, you're a co conspirator.
• 54:04
  Now just admit that you abuse people. One. I think
• 54:09
  because it was self because so many people saw it,
• 54:12
  of so many of such a high caliber down that
• 54:16
  never seemed to think it would Well, if they thought
• 54:19
  it was strange, probably they never said it at the time,
• 54:22
  So it became sort of like it was his thing, right.
• 54:24
  He was always around with women. I understand that it's
• 54:28
  very unattractive, especially in light of everything that we know today,
• 54:31
  but at the time, the only way I can sort
• 54:34
  of try and describe it is through Sex in the City,
• 54:36
  the movie, the show on Telly. That lifestyle is described
• 54:40
  on the TV show constantly. There are always these women
• 54:42
  around and men who like it, and a lot of
• 54:44
  the men that I know like women, and so maybe
• 54:47
  not as overtly as Epstein, but he was overt, not covert,
• 54:51
  except obviously in the context of the criminal behavior. So
• 54:55
  what we're discussing now there's a difference between the criminal
• 54:59
  behavior and then criminal but you don't like the lifestyle.
• 55:02
  I concur I agree, especially now. I own my side
• 55:07
  of that fence, and I was there and I saw
• 55:09
  his behavior with women and didn't challenge him or do something.
• 55:12
  I don't think back in the nineties or two thousands,
• 55:14
  we've had a cultural shift, and that cultural shift I
• 55:17
  think is very important part of the analysis here. Not
• 55:21
  because I'm trying to justify this, but I'm not and
• 55:23
  I'm not trying to and absolutely am not here to
• 55:26
  do the poor me program. Yes you are, that's all
• 55:28
  you've been doing, so please don't misunderstand this. However, in
• 55:32
  the nineties two thousands, when this behavior was going down,
• 55:35
  in the initial blush of the Palm Beach investigation, the
• 55:38
  women who brought the women who were under age seventeen sixteen,
• 55:41
  I believe, if my memory serves, were actually targets of
• 55:44
  the investigation and could have been charged with prostitution and trafficking.
• 55:49
  You're talking and taking behavior, and I'm introduced them to
• 55:52
  women I did, but not under age women. I understand
• 55:55
  that there are allegations I have read them about myself
• 55:58
  going to schools. I can cat gorericlely tell you that
• 56:01
  I have never in my life gone to a school
• 56:03
  to pick up a child. I believe Maria and not you. Sorry,
• 56:07
  well not for this purpose, like my step children and all.
• 56:10
  But okay, sorry, Blanche, No, I understand Maxwell, Thank you.
• 56:14
  I just want to be clear that I'm not trying
• 56:16
  to be cute or anything. I went to Spase. If
• 56:19
  I met somebody who said she was a messuse, I
• 56:22
  did not check their credentials. And of course if she
• 56:24
  was attractive, I did introduce her. Yes, if I met
• 56:27
  friends who were interested. He was constantly asking to meet
• 56:31
  new and interesting people, and I did do that. At
• 56:33
  the time I viewed it, well, first of all, part
• 56:35
  of my job, I think, or part of my responsibility
• 56:38
  if you were to introduce, because it wasn't just women.
• 56:41
  If I met someone who was interesting, like Murray Gellman
• 56:44
  or who I thought he would like, I did that.
• 56:47
  So it's not exclusively, but he did, and I did
• 56:50
  do that, Blanche. So I want a layer on top
• 56:53
  of what you just said, what we talked about yesterday
• 56:55
  more but a little bit today already, which is everybody
• 56:58
  that was around them besides you, like his friends, Maxwell, Right,
• 57:03
  So I accept the lifestyle. I've seen the photos, the
• 57:05
  fact that everybody we're all going to go to the
• 57:07
  island for a couple of days where we're flying on
• 57:10
  a private plane and there's beautiful women everywhere. I mean,
• 57:13
  do you, as you sit here today, think that the
• 57:15
  people around them weren't also of the same place where
• 57:19
  they were also getting massages, where there was sex going
• 57:22
  on during them or things like that. And I'm obviously
• 57:25
  asking this because Maxwell cuts them off. Yeah, Blanche, that's
• 57:29
  what everybody has said. And when you just described what
• 57:32
  it was like, the very next step from that is
• 57:36
  everybody's going to Vegas for the weekend. You know, it
• 57:39
  seems kind of far fetched to say that, yes, that
• 57:41
  was his lifestyle, but then that he's taking groups of
• 57:43
  folks to the island or groups of folks to New
• 57:45
  Mexico or whatever, that they're all, you know, going to
• 57:49
  church in the morning while he's getting a massage. I
• 57:51
  hear you. I was there though, and Blanche, yeah, Maxwell,
• 57:55
  and you're talking about very substantial people, and you're extrapolating
• 57:59
  because the narrative is started, by the way, not until
• 58:01
  two thousand and nine is when it really started, so
• 58:04
  the narrative was created and then built up, and it
• 58:07
  just mushroomed into what basically this is like a Salem
• 58:10
  witch trial. People have gone and lost their minds for
• 58:13
  this thing. I understand that, But the issue is how
• 58:16
  do you satisfy a mob who can't understand the lifestyle.
• 58:19
  Because it's like p Didyon re Duck's on TV with
• 58:21
  Clinton and Trump, so you're stupid. You just don't understand.
• 58:24
  That's what she means. And while some of it is real,
• 58:28
  he did do those things. I'm definitely not disputing that.
• 58:31
  But this was a man they didn't even believe he
• 58:34
  had a real business. I happen to believe he did.
• 58:36
  Did he grift? I don't know, because he wasn't really
• 58:38
  in his business. But this is one man they've made
• 58:42
  him into this. He's not that interesting. He's a disgusting
• 58:45
  guy who did terrible things to young kids. You're not
• 58:47
  going to hear me say what he did to people
• 58:49
  who are over the age eighteen. I'm sorry, I'm not
• 58:52
  going there. That's just not what I'm here. I mean, Okay,
• 58:55
  But to suggest that Larry Summers or Clinton would certainly go,
• 58:58
  oh my gosh, this is like a I'm going to
• 59:00
  get my body rubbed and have some sex. There are
• 59:03
  men that went and had a massage and maybe did
• 59:06
  something sexual. There are men. I wasn't in the room,
• 59:09
  and I can't tell you if that happened, and if
• 59:11
  it did, I never paid for that. Just so that
• 59:13
  we're clear, nobody ever said that to me, Oh, you
• 59:16
  know we had sexual intercourse and that there was a
• 59:19
  three negative. I'd be like, okay, TMI, No, not my business.
• 59:24
  It's just not And I didn't want to know. Maybe
• 59:27
  there's that, but like I think these guys were coming
• 59:30
  for that. I really don't. If you met Epstein, there
• 59:33
  is no way that this cast of characters, of which
• 59:36
  it's extraordinary, and some are in your cabinet who you
• 59:40
  value as your coworkers and you know, would be with
• 59:42
  him if he was a creeper because they wanted sexual favors.
• 59:46
  A man wants sexual favors. He will find that they
• 59:49
  didn't have to come to Epstein for that. Now, did
• 59:52
  some Okay, I don't know. I wasn't there. I didn't
• 59:55
  see it. All right, folks, We're gonna wrap up right
• 59:57
  there and in the next episode dealing with the topic
• 59:59
  where pick up where we left off. All of the
• 1:00:02
  information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 1:00:05
  the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
• 1:00:08
  episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking
• 1:00:12
  up where we left off with Glenn Maxwell, her fireside
• 1:00:16
  chat with Baby Billy, Blanche and the DOJ. Blanche. So,
• 1:00:20
  when's the last time you think you were with mister
• 1:00:22
  Ebstein when he got a massage? Maxwell? I want to
• 1:00:26
  say two thousand and seven, Blanche, two thousand and seven, Maxwell, Yes, Blanche,
• 1:00:31
  and the frequency at that point, So two thousand and
• 1:00:33
  seven is that when it was at its peak, would
• 1:00:36
  you say? Meaning the number of interactions he was having
• 1:00:39
  daily with women and messuses. Maxwell, I wasn't really in
• 1:00:44
  his life. I happened to be in the Caribbean in
• 1:00:46
  two thousand and seven. I was with Ted Blanche, Okay, Maxwell,
• 1:00:50
  I was still speaking with Epstein because I was still involved,
• 1:00:53
  you know, loosely with the houses and the staff and
• 1:00:56
  some of the billing. And I was going back from
• 1:00:59
  being with Ted Caribbean to New York and Epstein offered
• 1:01:02
  me a ride, and so Ted dropped me off in
• 1:01:04
  saying Thomas and I was on the island, I believe
• 1:01:07
  for one day and one night only on that visit.
• 1:01:09
  I believe. I know he would have gotten a massage,
• 1:01:13
  but there were people there, but that were women, and
• 1:01:17
  I was Blanche. Cuts are off, Okay, Maxwell, just relieve
• 1:01:20
  not to Blanche, Okay, be leaving the next day, Blanche,
• 1:01:25
  let's take a break. Horn, We're going to take a break.
• 1:01:28
  The time is eleven thirty one. Horn. We're resuming the
• 1:01:31
  audio recorded profer agreement with miss Maxwell. And the time
• 1:01:34
  is eleven forty nine, Am Blanche. All right. I wanted
• 1:01:38
  to follow up about former President Clinton's relationship with mister Epstein,
• 1:01:42
  not you. We touched on it, but can you just
• 1:01:45
  set I have a couple of questions about it, But
• 1:01:47
  what's your understanding of their relationship from what you observed?
• 1:01:51
  Meaning former President Clinton and mister Epstein Maxwell. I saw
• 1:01:55
  them talk. I saw them sit down and have chats
• 1:01:57
  about I don't know, because I wasn't either party or
• 1:02:00
  didn't listen. I would characterize originally anyway mister Epstein's interest
• 1:02:04
  in him, because obviously he's the former president. But I
• 1:02:08
  never saw him other than that, I saw them be
• 1:02:11
  friendly on the plane. I don't recollect anyway ever seeing
• 1:02:14
  them in any other context. I don't remember him at
• 1:02:18
  the house in New York. Like I said, I don't
• 1:02:20
  believe he ever went to that island. I think that
• 1:02:23
  was just was just a story that redacted did. Nope,
• 1:02:27
  mister Scully saw him too, other people as well, Blanche.
• 1:02:31
  Do you know one way or the other whether their
• 1:02:33
  relationship continued without you, like when you kind of moved
• 1:02:36
  past mister Epstein. Maxwell, I don't believe so, Blanche. Why
• 1:02:40
  do you say that you don't believe so, Maxwell, Because
• 1:02:43
  I don't think they had a relationship even when I
• 1:02:46
  was there. President Clinton like me, and we got along
• 1:02:49
  terribly well. But I never saw that warmth or that
• 1:02:53
  however you want to characterize it with mister Epstein. So
• 1:02:57
  I didn't see that. I didn't see any interest. I
• 1:02:59
  didn't see President Clinton being interested in Epstein. He was
• 1:03:02
  just a rich guy with a plane, Blanche. When the
• 1:03:06
  Southern District of New York case became a public and
• 1:03:09
  there was a search warrant for mister Epstein's house, there
• 1:03:12
  was like a painting or a picture with mister Clinton
• 1:03:15
  in like a blue dress that had been signed. Do
• 1:03:18
  you know where he got that picture or painting. Maxwell.
• 1:03:21
  The first I saw it was in the press, Blanche,
• 1:03:23
  So you never observed Maxwell no Blanche. No, Maxwell No,
• 1:03:27
  I thought it was hideous, Blanche. What's that again, Maxwell,
• 1:03:32
  I thought it was hideous, Blanche. So you don't know,
• 1:03:36
  sitting here today, where mister Epstein got it, Maxwell, no, Blanche,
• 1:03:40
  the circumstances in which he got it, Maxwell, no, Blanche.
• 1:03:44
  Do you know if any other gifts or paraphernalia or
• 1:03:46
  art or pictures that former President Clinton gave to mister Epstein.
• 1:03:50
  Maxwell No, I mean he did maybe get him a gift.
• 1:03:53
  I don't know. I have no knowledge of that, Blanche.
• 1:03:57
  And then going back to the topic that we were
• 1:03:59
  talking about before our last break, well, when you said
• 1:04:02
  something yesterday at the very beginning of our conversation that
• 1:04:06
  when you first met mister Epstein and you ultimately had
• 1:04:08
  sex with him, I'll use the word a rectile dysfunction,
• 1:04:11
  but he had issues having sex. Maxwell. That's what he
• 1:04:14
  told me. I mean, are people really this stupid? He
• 1:04:17
  wasn't attracted to you, Maxwell, you were too old for him.
• 1:04:21
  Pretty simple. What's going on here, Blanche? That's what he
• 1:04:27
  told you Maxwell, Yes, Blanche, okay. And then over the years,
• 1:04:31
  you said sometime in the nineties he started taking testosterone. Maxwell, Yes,
• 1:04:36
  but I don't know if it was in the nineties.
• 1:04:38
  I don't remember when he started. He had patches, testosterone patches, Blanche, okay, Blanche,
• 1:04:45
  like on his arm, Maxwell, Yes, Blanche okay, Maxwell. And
• 1:04:49
  then he was ridiculous because you shouldn't take more than one.
• 1:04:51
  But sometimes I'm like, what are you doing. It's like unhealthy, Blanche, Okay.
• 1:04:56
  From what you observed or saw or heard, did he
• 1:04:59
  continue to have challenge unges sexually over the years, or
• 1:05:01
  do you think that whatever he told you, whatever issue
• 1:05:04
  he told you was fixed. Maxwell, I think it was
• 1:05:07
  a lie, Blanche. You think he was lying about what
• 1:05:10
  Maxwell about erectile dysfunction? Blanche, Oh, you mean you never
• 1:05:14
  You don't think he ever had any issues. You think
• 1:05:17
  he just told you that. Maxwell, Right, That is what
• 1:05:19
  I believe today. But given if any of the stories
• 1:05:22
  are true, even if he had a rectal dysfunction, the
• 1:05:25
  thing had a priapism. For Christ's sake, Blanche, That's one
• 1:05:29
  of the reasons for my questions. I mean, you're right,
• 1:05:33
  we've talked about this as a fair amount but like
• 1:05:35
  the stories of what messus is underage and overage I've
• 1:05:38
  said about him are very you know, what he liked,
• 1:05:41
  what he demanded they do, whether it's watching him masturbate
• 1:05:44
  or pinging his nipples, you know kind of things that
• 1:05:46
  are unusual. Do you believe that from what you saw,
• 1:05:50
  from what you observed, from what you did when you
• 1:05:53
  were in a relationship with him? Is that true? Maxwell?
• 1:05:56
  The bulk of what I read, he did not have sex,
• 1:05:59
  So that consistent with what he told me actually and
• 1:06:02
  is masturbating. That is also consistent with what I knew myself.
• 1:06:06
  And I'm going to use a bad word. Please, you
• 1:06:08
  can use whatever word you need, Maxwell. Blowjob okay, he
• 1:06:12
  liked blowjobs, Blanche. Okay, Maxwell, That I did observe, and
• 1:06:18
  he didn't seem to have any erectile dysfunction for blowjobs.
• 1:06:20
  But sex he didn't have. So when I read the
• 1:06:23
  stories about all the allegations of sexual rape, I find
• 1:06:26
  that challenging because that was not his modest UPPARENDI. From
• 1:06:30
  my perspective, yeah, you were too old for him. What
• 1:06:33
  don't you grasp about this, Blanche? But when you read
• 1:06:38
  about blowjobs, that would be consistent with kind of Maxwell,
• 1:06:42
  that would be consistent, as would masturbation. Yes, Blanche, did
• 1:06:46
  you talk to messuses or women that either he was
• 1:06:49
  in a relationship with or who asked you about working
• 1:06:52
  with them? Did you tell them, yes, he likes blowjobs. Yes,
• 1:06:55
  I'll masturbate in front of you. Like, did you have
• 1:06:58
  conversations with any of those women about what mister Epstein
• 1:07:01
  liked or what made him happy or things he did? Maxwell,
• 1:07:05
  I don't have any memory of telling anybody about that.
• 1:07:08
  I think I may have joked, like saying, oh my god,
• 1:07:10
  you know, like from a sex in the city scene,
• 1:07:13
  you know he's But I never instructed the question you're
• 1:07:16
  asking me. Sorry, let's just be clear. I never instructed
• 1:07:19
  anyone had a pleasure mister Epstein, Blanche, and you said
• 1:07:24
  this earlier, but I want to just you kind of
• 1:07:26
  said it on your own, on your own, I want
• 1:07:28
  to ask the question, but so I'll make sure that
• 1:07:31
  there's no confusion over the years. Maxwell, Sorry, can I
• 1:07:36
  just yeah, of course, yeah, please Maxwell, Right, I just
• 1:07:38
  want to say the idea that I would have to
• 1:07:40
  explain to a woman how to satisfy Epstein is patently absurd,
• 1:07:44
  because he clearly was able to explain himself. She didn't
• 1:07:47
  need to be the interlocatur to explain what he liked.
• 1:07:51
  He's been doing this, obviously, for some version of this story,
• 1:07:54
  his whole life, and did not require any help from me. Blanche.
• 1:07:58
  So did you ever observe it having sex with a massus,
• 1:08:01
  regular intercourse, not a blowjob, nothing else where you either
• 1:08:05
  walked in or were in the room. Maxwell, I never
• 1:08:08
  saw him have sex with any person, Blanche. And so
• 1:08:12
  how about oral sex? Did you ever observe a woman
• 1:08:15
  giving a moral sex whether you were in the room
• 1:08:17
  or walked in, Maxwell, I never saw anyone give Epstein
• 1:08:21
  a blowjob, No, Blanche, But you said earlier you did
• 1:08:24
  see a masturbate in front of Messus's Maxwell. I don't
• 1:08:28
  know if I said that. I don't, Blanche. Oh okay, sorry,
• 1:08:31
  I don't want Maxwell. If I said that, Blanche, let
• 1:08:34
  me ask you a question. Sorry, Blanche. No, No, that's fair,
• 1:08:38
  that's fair, Maxwell, I said I saw him. I'm sure
• 1:08:42
  I saw him in what some people could define a
• 1:08:44
  sexual contact, because if somebody could not have their clothes
• 1:08:47
  or top list, I would say maybe I could say
• 1:08:49
  that if I saw him having or masturbating when someone
• 1:08:53
  was there. I don't recall that. I don't have a
• 1:08:55
  specific memory for it. I'm sorry, Blanche, Okay, Maxwell, but no,
• 1:09:00
  I'm not. She gets caught off by Blanche Maxwell. I
• 1:09:03
  didn't say that, Blanche, Okay, I understand. That's fair. Maxwell,
• 1:09:07
  that's okay, Blanche, certainly not trying to put words in
• 1:09:09
  your mouth Maxwell. No, no, No, that's fine, Blanche. I think
• 1:09:14
  in passing, maybe not in passing. I'm sorry, you know
• 1:09:16
  whether other people who travel with them would get massages
• 1:09:20
  When I say what, I'm referring mostly to the island
• 1:09:24
  or potentially New Mexico, but also as Pond Beach residents
• 1:09:27
  or even in New York. Do you have a list
• 1:09:30
  of names in your head or names that come to
• 1:09:32
  mind of people that did go get massages that were
• 1:09:36
  with mister Epstein. No, there is no list. There's no
• 1:09:40
  list of people getting massages. I can barely recall all
• 1:09:43
  the people. I can barely recall. I struggle to recall
• 1:09:46
  actual people that I met, and I may have not
• 1:09:49
  met them long ago that I had even forgotten about
• 1:09:53
  mister Kennedy or probably brought it up yesterday. It just
• 1:09:56
  came into my mind now. So there's no list. There
• 1:10:00
  was never a list, or certainly none that I was
• 1:10:02
  aware of. None, I heard of, none that I witnessed.
• 1:10:05
  There is no list. There has never been a list, Blanche.
• 1:10:09
  And you never heard mister Epstein talk about a list. Maxwell, never,
• 1:10:13
  Blanche and you never heard mister Epstein suggest that he
• 1:10:16
  had some sort of control over somebody because of what
• 1:10:18
  he knew about what they had done or had photos
• 1:10:21
  of him or anything. Maxwell. I never heard him, No,
• 1:10:25
  I never heard him ask questions about that. So I've
• 1:10:29
  been present many times with messuses. Never who presumably could
• 1:10:33
  or maybe did massage somebody. I'm not saying whether they
• 1:10:36
  did or not. I never heard him ask any question
• 1:10:39
  of any messuse who may have given a massage to
• 1:10:42
  a friend that was on the island or in pom
• 1:10:44
  Beach or anywhere else for that any details about that massage,
• 1:10:48
  like does he have funky foot? I never heard that,
• 1:10:51
  because weird, Blanche And I think at one of the
• 1:10:55
  breaks today, your lawyer may have showed you something that
• 1:10:57
  just came out in the paper. I think this morning
• 1:11:00
  last night a letter that you that's attributed to you,
• 1:11:03
  associated with this birthday book from two thousand and three
• 1:11:05
  that we talked about yesterday. Maxwell, I did see the
• 1:11:09
  letter Blanche in that look like your handwriting or someone else's. Maxwell.
• 1:11:14
  So I don't remember the letter Blanche, okay, Maxwell, But
• 1:11:17
  it does look like my handwriting, and it does look
• 1:11:20
  like my name, and it looks like it could be real.
• 1:11:22
  But I have no memory of writing that, and I
• 1:11:24
  don't remember it at all. Do you remember what the
• 1:11:27
  birthday book, as they're calling it, what it like looked like,
• 1:11:30
  like how it was put together, Blanche, I do, Blanche,
• 1:11:34
  what do you remember about it? Maxwell? I remember it.
• 1:11:36
  It was leather bound, and I remember it being about
• 1:11:39
  yay big. It was big, Blanche. So you're saying it
• 1:11:43
  looks like over twelve inches fourteen fifteen inches Maxwell, Yes,
• 1:11:47
  it was like sort of a folio size, I guess
• 1:11:50
  or something like that, and like this, and it was
• 1:11:53
  brown and thick about this thick, Blanche, okay, Maxwell? And
• 1:11:58
  to that cut off by Blanche again and just so
• 1:12:00
  I understand, Maxwell cut him off heavy stock paper, Blanche,
• 1:12:04
  heavy stock paper, like fourteen inches high. Maxwell, That's about right, Blanche.
• 1:12:09
  Then around like Maxwell, we had a four because it
• 1:12:12
  was done on heavy stock paper. But I can't remember
• 1:12:15
  if it was folio sized paper or it could have
• 1:12:17
  been just a four Blanche. Oh, I see, so it
• 1:12:21
  could have just been letter size, or it might have
• 1:12:23
  been legal size Maxwell, Yes, Blanche, heavy stock paper, Maxwell, yes, Blanche.
• 1:12:29
  So the folks that submitted letters were given the stock
• 1:12:32
  paper or how were the letters like glue or something?
• 1:12:35
  The letters to the stock paper, Maxwell, every which way.
• 1:12:38
  Some were given the paper and they did their own thing.
• 1:12:40
  Some would send me scraps of paper and I would
• 1:12:42
  put it on the thing. Some I didn't even get
• 1:12:45
  because they went straight to Epstein and I was told
• 1:12:48
  just to put them in. Like I said, I thought
• 1:12:50
  you didn't know anything about any of this. I thought
• 1:12:52
  you didn't know what the book looks like. Weird, Blanche.
• 1:12:56
  And how was it bound? Maxwell? It went to a
• 1:12:58
  professional binder who did it like a book that you'd
• 1:13:01
  see at the library. Maxwell, So like the glue that
• 1:13:04
  keeps a regular book, a novel that you would read together.
• 1:13:07
  It was bound that way. Excuse me, that was Blanche, Maxwell,
• 1:13:11
  I believe. So. I don't think it was stitched, but
• 1:13:13
  I don't remember. I mean, it was professionally done by
• 1:13:16
  a professional bookbinder. Blanche and then after you presented it,
• 1:13:20
  or after it was presented to him when he turned fifty?
• 1:13:23
  Did you see the leather bound book? Did he keep
• 1:13:25
  it somewhere? In particular? Maxwell? It was in his bookcase
• 1:13:29
  in seventy first Street, Blanche in Manhattan, Maxwell, in Manhattan.
• 1:13:33
  And did you see it over the years until you
• 1:13:35
  stop going to the Brownstone? Maxwell? I know I did
• 1:13:38
  see it because it was right behind his desk, and
• 1:13:41
  after I stopped going, I don't know what happened to it, Blanche.
• 1:13:45
  Do you remember being told or knowing where the book
• 1:13:47
  is now? Maxwell? No, but I received discovery in those pages.
• 1:13:51
  I assumed that had been found either in New York
• 1:13:53
  or the Islands or when they were searched. And I
• 1:13:55
  assume that the Southern District of New York had it. Blanche,
• 1:13:59
  But I think you said yesterday. But just go over
• 1:14:01
  it again in case you remember anything different. You recall
• 1:14:04
  seeing some of the letters in discovery, I do, Blanche.
• 1:14:09
  But do you recall kind of seeing the leather books
• 1:14:11
  start to finish? Maxwell? No, But remember I didn't see
• 1:14:14
  all discovery because they were very clever about it. You know,
• 1:14:17
  I didn't receive all discovery period And in fact, very
• 1:14:20
  important items were not given to me at all, including
• 1:14:23
  witness testimony from the grand jury. Yeah, you don't get that, okay, Sorry,
• 1:14:28
  private information, Geelane, Blanche. So you don't know one way
• 1:14:33
  or the other whether that was part of discovery. You
• 1:14:35
  just don't know that you didn't get it. It wasn't
• 1:14:38
  part of discovery that was given to you, Maxwell, correct.
• 1:14:41
  I am absolutely sure that the Southern District of New
• 1:14:43
  York hid very important pieces of evidence from me, Blanche, Okay.
• 1:14:48
  And I assumed that they leaked it, because where else
• 1:14:52
  would it be if that's what it is, If it's true, Blanche.
• 1:14:57
  Just so I'll put it. I'll say to you, as
• 1:15:00
  I've talked a little bit to your lawyer about it,
• 1:15:02
  I said to you yesterday what the purpose of what
• 1:15:04
  we did yesterday and today was was exactly what we did,
• 1:15:08
  which is to have a conversation about mister Epstein and
• 1:15:10
  about you. And I think it's very challenging to talk
• 1:15:13
  about everything we talked about, and you know, in one
• 1:15:15
  and a half days or so, in just a period
• 1:15:18
  of hours. So I'll talk to mister Marcus about kind
• 1:15:20
  of what we're going to do next. If anything, there's no,
• 1:15:24
  I'm not being coy, just don't know yet. I don't know.
• 1:15:28
  We have a lot of work to do. We'll do
• 1:15:30
  it with your lawyers to the extent we have questions
• 1:15:32
  for follow up, and this has been very helpful. I
• 1:15:35
  think it was you, you know, who kind of said
• 1:15:37
  you wanted to talk, but we gladly accepted it. So
• 1:15:41
  I do appreciate you being willing to meet with me,
• 1:15:43
  and I expect that will be in touch soon. All right, Maxwell, Yeah,
• 1:15:47
  Spencer Horne. This concludes the recorded Profer interview of Miss Maxwell.
• 1:15:52
  The time is twelve o five pm on Friday, July
• 1:15:55
  twenty fifth. All Right, folks, well, that's a whole lot
• 1:15:59
  of bullshit from start to finish, and not only that,
• 1:16:02
  but a gigantic jack off and a waste of taxpayer dollars.
• 1:16:06
  And if you walk away from this thinking it's anything
• 1:16:08
  from a cover up, do yourself a favor and punch
• 1:16:11
  yourself directly in the face. All of the information that
• 1:16:15
  goes with this episode can be found in the description box.