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☀️ Ennea-Summer: Enneagram 5 The Investigator · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast with Amy Wicks, your wholehearted life and business coach.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: You should know this podcast will inspire you to grow in self-awareness, be passionate about your faith, and get clear on your calling.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you are new here, then welcome to a community of multi-passionate women who love to go deep on topics like faith, Enneagram, relationships, leadership, and community.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: This conversation might provide the step you need to make the change you desire.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: So let's get started.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's often known as the investigator.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: They are likely analytical, a little bit more emotionally detached, and private.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: And Enneagram 5s are often the more quiet and withdrawn cerebral types of the Enneagram.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: This episode today is going to cover key characteristics of the Enneagram 5.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to share an upstream practice for engaging more fully with the external world.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also sharing firsthand experience from a whole-hearted type 5 client who is also a wholehearted coach.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then wholehearted coach Deanna Sudam will close and end with a prayer for courage and connection.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you know an Enneagram 5 or are a 5, I hope you'd take notes and share this fun and easy way to learn about all nine Enneagram types this summer.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, if you don't have a pen and paper handy, just find the links in the show note to download the guide sheet on the Enneagram 5 and the rest of the Enneagram types.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now here's a quick snapshot of the Enneagram 5.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: A five's core fear is about being invaded upon and having their energy depleted, and being thought of as incapable or ignorant.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: The five's core desire is to be knowledgeable, capable, and competent.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Their core weakness is greed, feeling that they must withhold themselves, resources, and information from others in order to avoid catastrophic depletion.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: The five's core longing is to know your needs are not a problem.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now how about those Enneagram wings?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, specifically the Enneagram wings are just the two personality types on either side of the primary personality type.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: So for the Enneagram 5, the type 4 and the type 6 are their Enneagram wings.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: One of the wings is likely used more than the other, which just adds a different dimension and depth to the primary type.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like adding cream and sugar to coffee or a little bit of salt and pepper to a potato.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: The main personality type does dominate a person's perception and experience, but the wings do impact it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it also adds internal conflicts, and it might add a dimension to the childhood experience or wound.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Ultimately, the insight about the wings is to offer awareness so that way you might mend them and use them to balance and experience forward momentum.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: The Enneagram 5 Wing 4 combination has the fantastic ability to pull things apart and then conceptualize new ways to look at it from a creative viewpoint.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: In general, they tend to be more creative, humanistic, sensitive, and empathetic.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: The Enneagram 5 Wing 6 thrives on dissecting and analyzing problems, which makes their superpower combination solution finders through research and intellect.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: They tend to struggle a little bit more with anxiety, being a little bit more skeptical and cautious, but they're also likely to be more extroverted and loyal in their relationships.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: The Intelligence Center is a triad in the Enneagram.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And this specific triad gives us insight about everyone's approach to decision making.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the five falls in the head triad, which means they employ a cognitive approach to decision making.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And people in this group, types are five, six, and seven, often evaluate situations through their thoughts before determining their emotional response and their next reaction.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: The types in the head triad are fundamentally driven by strong desire for security and certainty in their lives.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: I can testify to that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: For the five specifically, security is found through attaining knowledge and having a clear, concise plan.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the five's communication pattern falls within the withdrawing stance of the Enneagram.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And this means they tend to create distance from others in their communication.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: They prioritize personal space, autonomy, and self-reflection.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: The positive intention of this communication pattern is to not be overly dependent or expect others to find a solution.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: But they do tend to get frustrated with those who are too bossy or too accommodating.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: The Enneagram types in the withdrawing pattern, and that is the four, five, and nine, they struggle the most with the constant demand of interaction with others.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Their strength, though, is being past focused.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: The what has been informs their right now.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: They'll likely ask what went well, what didn't.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: They learn and teach from past experiences.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the Enneagram 4, 5, and 9, those in the withdrawing stance, they are all about stories, experiences, reflections, memories, and nostalgia.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you are a five, I am confident you have noticed the unique lines in the Enneagram diagram, the ones specifically that connect different numbers.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: If you didn't know those denote lines of stress and growth.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: So here are the specific details about the lines that are connected to the Enneagram 5.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: When reacting under stress and without awareness, the Enneagram 5 goes to the lower average size of the seven.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: They become hyperactive and scattered, trying to multitask, which is not a good thing for them.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: They impulsively take on new projects and they tend to not follow through with their commitments.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: They also become unfocused and distracted.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: But when the Enneagram 5 does the work and soul care, they can respond with greater purpose and intentionality, and they will exhibit the high or healthy side of the type 8.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Insecure fives will become more self-confident and decisive.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: They'll get in touch with and are more active with their body.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And they trust their instincts and become more assertive and confident.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, your starting point doesn't have to be your step point.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: So when a five practices rhythms of consenting and silence, silence teaches the five to listen.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: It helps them learn how to tune in to God's voice, which isn't always easy to recognize.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: But this ultimately opens the door to encounter Jesus, the true investigator.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Brokenhearted moments are transformed into wholehearted healing as the five declares these specific truth statements.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: May I welcome this present moment regardless of what I have or don't have.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: May I receive the gift of silence, resting my mind.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: May I let go of my need to know and my desire for self-sufficiency.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: A five is invited to rest from their need to find all the answers and connect to the one who holds all truth and is the source of wisdom.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: When a five consents to silence, it helps them embrace mystery and quiet the distracting mental noise that often distracts them from their fear or causes them to avoid their fear about not finding a solution.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: Author AJ Sherrill advises Enneagram fives to observe rhythms of serving with their whole selves, specifically their hands and body, not just their mind.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: The day of the church calendar to pay special attention to is Christmastide.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: These days are marked not only by the celebration of the arrival of our Messiah, but I'd also like to add by the tradition of giving.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Twelve days of Christmas festivities and the call to extravagant giving are both upstream practices for the five.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited for you to meet Kristen Ye, a wholehearted type 5 client who is also a wholehearted coach.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: You met her last year, but this time you are going to learn more about her journey as a Type 5 mom.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, my name is Kristen Ye.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and here is my wholehearted type 5 motherhood journey.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: My husband and I have been married for 24 years, and we have four sons who are now 20, 18, 16, and 13.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I chuckle when I think about how God gave us all boys.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have two sisters, and the boy energy was all new to me.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love it so much and wouldn't have it any other way.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I first heard about the Enneagram about five years ago when our oldest son was in high school, two were in middle school, and our youngest was in elementary school.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Discovering that I was a type five and learning about my personality was a pivotal moment in my life in general and specifically in my motherhood journey.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was like the blinders came off, and I saw for the first time the unique way that God created me and how that impacts not only my relationship with God, but also my relationship with myself and with others.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: I saw how being a type 5 influenced my mothering.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: It brought to light aspects of mothering where I was thriving and also areas where I was struggling.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: It gave me language to name and explain both my growth and my pain.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: For most of my life, I had operated with the misguided assumption that the way I saw and experienced the world was how others did as well.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: This led to a lot of confusion and frustration when I would offer perspectives or ideas that didn't at all make sense to those around me.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know and understand why.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Big shocker.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: My unique way of thinking and making sense of things is different than others.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I've come to see that that is a really, really good thing.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I am viewing the world with my metaphorical type 5 glasses on, and others, my children included, are viewing the world with glasses that are tinted with a different shade.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking at the same thing, but the experience of it is different.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was mind-blowing to realize how my thoughts, interpretations, and understandings are so influenced by my personality.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: As a type 5 mom, mothering young boys, my strengths showed up in unique ways.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I am a very naturally curious person.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: I want to learn about so many things.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: When my boys were little, I paid close attention to the things that fascinated them.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Some topics included ninjas, history, animals, tactical war strategy, construction vehicles, weapons, dinosaurs, pirates, Legos, and magic tricks.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I nurtured those interests by planning frequent trips to the library so we could find and check out books to read together.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: We watched videos and sang songs and had more dinner time conversations about Star Wars and superheroes than I can count.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I loved seeing them learn, and I reveled in the learning right alongside them.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: As a researcher, I found fun events around town for us to do.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: We saw magicians and jugglers, frisbee trick throwers, puppets, and went to sing alongs with our favorite musicians.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I remember a library program we went to all about turkey vultures, where we learned an entire song about how turkey vultures pee on their legs to cool themselves off.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about a hit for young boys.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Our boys sing that song around the house for years and years afterwards.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: While learning and curiosity came easy to me, other aspects of mothering didn't.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Going from having lots of alone time and autonomy before kids to being on duty as mom all day long and having my schedule dictated by the needs of my boys was a challenge.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was running on empty by the time my husband came home from work.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Looking back, I can see some of my unhealthy expectations, patterns, and coping strategies.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was easily frustrated and impatient when it was nap time or bedtime, and I was looking forward to some downtime, but the kids were struggling to sleep.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: All the boy noise and physicality in our home was sometimes unnerving, and I withdrew to cope.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that withdrawal was going into another room when no one was in danger.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I would retreat in my mind.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was physically present, but in a whole different place mentally.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Before the Enneagram, when the kids were younger, I didn't fully appreciate the different personalities of my kids and how that influenced our interactions.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I often tried to parent them all the same and didn't know how to speak to each and interact in a way that connected to their unique hearts.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I missed windows of bonding because I didn't know how to speak the language of their hearts.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing the Enneagram is helping me tremendously to nurture and grow deeper connections with each of my boys.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have used my love for learning and my keen powers of observation as a five to discover how each of my boys gives and receives love and how each one likes to communicate.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Some want more direct communication.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Some want and need a softer approach.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some respond to humor when talking about challenging things.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Some need time and space to prepare beforehand.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Some like to banter back and forth.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Some need more empathy and understanding.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Praise God that He is redeeming the time now.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's never too late.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the Holy Spirit is such a kind and gentle teacher.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Another area where I struggled early on was finding my identity and my role as mom instead of in Christ.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Using mom to primarily define myself led to feelings of guilt and shame when my boys weren't behaving or when there was conflict.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: When things were going well in mothering, I felt like a success.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: When they weren't, I struggled.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm learning to root my identity in who Christ says that I am chosen, adopted, forgiven, redeemed, set free, and blessed.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: This shift has taken off the self-inflicted pressure of performance and allows me to be present and engaged even during the tough parts of mothering.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now, as we are launching our second son into college, I marvel at the ways God has humbled me and grown me as a mother.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Doing my own work of self-discovery and finding my identity in Christ and not in my role as mom has brought me freedom and confidence.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still very much in process and still learning.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: The difference now is that I'm able to give myself grace when I make mistakes, seek reconciliation when I've wronged my kids, and more easily adapt to their different personalities.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thankful that I'm connecting more at a heart level and forging relationships with my kids that bring life and joy.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: I want other type 5 moms to know that God has given you a unique personality and perspective that will open up a world of curiosity and learning for your kids.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: You may not have the same amount of energy as other moms around you, and that's okay.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Don't compare.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: You are the mother that your kids need.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there will be lots of challenges, and that is to be expected at every stage.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: God's grace is plentiful and sufficient.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I wholeheartedly believe that investing in your own spiritual and emotional growth is the best gift that you can give your kids.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: I am so grateful for Kristen's story.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you are as inspired as I am.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, we are all broken.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: We are all blowing it, but it's the brave one who does something about it.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: And now Deanna Sudan will share her prayer and blessing for the Type Five.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you that through your desire to understand the world and your natural curiosity to dig deeper, you attain knowledge needed to impart God's wisdom.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for how you teach us from the great gatherings in your research.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: I pray this word in Second Corinthians nine verses six to eight in the CSB version speaks deeply to your spirit.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: The point is this, reap generously.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Each person should do as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or out of compulsion, since God loves a cheerful giver, and God is able to make every grace overflow to you, so that in every way, always having everything you need, you may excel in every good work.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I sense that what feels the opposite to you by having hands wide open to share yourself in your knowledge will be the very thing that will help set you free in knowing you are his beloved.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Lord, I pray that you will speak to any insecurities that may drive these precious fives in their quest for knowledge and understanding.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Squelch the anxiety within and show them their beautiful value in contributing to this world.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Lord, help them to take their thoughts captive into the obedience of Christ to interrupt the spirals of anxiousness.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Father, will you expand their pursuit to not just be understanding, but in having the thrill of experiencing what they learn as well?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: We pray for an integration of their inner and outer selves in a way that is not overwhelming, but gentle like your presence and character is in drawing those you love.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Father, for their astute powers of observation.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Reassure them, Lord, that even the little mastery they have is enough in you.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Speak over their places of competency and capability, that their needs are not a problem, and you will heal any places in their hearts and spirits where lack has been the perception or reality.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Father, thank you for their gift of contentment in being alone with the ability to sit in silence.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for attuning their ears to your voice, and please, God, will you bring comfort that you will replenish their depleted resources and take care of their needs as you help them step into the healing places of fellowship with others and in community that is safe for them to heal.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let their security be in you.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: May the journey from their head to their heart be encapsulated in your truth and grace so that they can walk in assurance of your peace.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: In Jesus' name, amen.