Latest / Wildlife and Adventure Photography / Your photos aren't sharp - 7 mistakes you're probably making
Transcript
- 0:08SPEAKER_00: How many times have you taken what you were convinced was a great photograph?
- 0:12SPEAKER_00: So the composition's right, the moment's right, the exposure looks great.
- 0:16SPEAKER_00: But then when you look at it on your computer, you realize it's not sharp.
- 0:20SPEAKER_00: It's um soft, something's gone wrong.
- 0:24SPEAKER_00: So before you blame your camera or your lens or your autofocus, there are several other things that could be responsible.
- 0:31SPEAKER_00: And um if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you know that this is um something I have spoken about before, but this is uh again a slightly different take.
- 0:40SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna look at seven common reasons why photographs aren't sharp, and more importantly, what you can do about each of them.
- 0:49SPEAKER_00: Now, you should, depending on where you're listening to this, be able to download a free checklist uh to help you with sharpness.
- 0:58SPEAKER_00: If you are not able to get it for whatever reason, just drop me a quick line at Graham at GE.photography and I will send you a copy.
- 1:06SPEAKER_00: So it's there to um really help you uh overcome these issues.
- 1:11SPEAKER_00: And also, if you haven't already, please remember to like and subscribe.
- 1:15SPEAKER_00: Or um, oh, there's another thing on YouTube which I've forgotten about now, but anyway, hype, I think it is.
- 1:21SPEAKER_00: So please please do things that get the podcast noticed.
- 1:25SPEAKER_00: That's uh always appreciated.
- 1:28SPEAKER_00: Okay, so where I'm gonna start is what do we actually mean by sharp?
- 1:34SPEAKER_00: So first of all, you've got technical sharpness, and that's to do with your focus being accurate, it's to do with detail being resolved, it's the absence of camera shake, it's the absence of any movement in the subject.
- 1:51SPEAKER_00: So that's the first uh version of sharpness, if you like.
- 1:55SPEAKER_00: And then secondly, we've got perceived sharpness, and this is different because this is how sharp the photograph appears to us.
- 2:06SPEAKER_00: And one important thing to remember is that you can actually have a perfectly sharp photograph, technically sharp, but it doesn't look sharp when you uh when you look at it.
- 2:17SPEAKER_00: So a good example of that is where you have a black object against a white background, and there is a very obvious transition from black to white.
- 2:29SPEAKER_00: So what you have is a strong contrast, you have a strong edge, and our eyes perceive that edge as being sharp because you've got a very direct, immediate change from some area that's black to another area that's white.
- 2:46SPEAKER_00: However, if you look at the same subject again, so a black object, but it's against a background that's of a very similar color, very similar color and brightness, so it might be a uh a gray, something like that, the transition between the subject and the background is much less obvious.
- 3:07SPEAKER_00: And so this is one of those situations where the image can be perfectly focused, but the edge appears soft.
- 3:17SPEAKER_00: And where you're likely to see this in practice is on things like landscapes on a foggy day or a misty day, or even uh a fairly overcast day, where there's not a massive difference between the colour and shape of the subject and the background.
- 3:34SPEAKER_00: This is where you're like it's likely to look soft or slightly out of focus, and in fact, it's perfectly sharp.
- 3:40SPEAKER_00: So that particular aspect of sharpness is our ability to recognize where the edge of one or the end of one um object is, where one object ends and another one starts.
- 3:57SPEAKER_00: So, and again, you'll get this in wildlife.
- 4:00SPEAKER_00: So it might be an elephant against a pale background compared with the same elephant standing in dark woodland.
- 4:06SPEAKER_00: So you've got the same detail, you can be focused the same way, but again, it comes down to the contrast around the edges of the animal and the background.
- 4:16SPEAKER_00: So really, the the question that I want you to think about is when a photograph doesn't look sharp, what's actually causing that impression?
- 4:30SPEAKER_00: So I've given you an example of where you can have a sharp image, but it just doesn't look sharp.
- 4:35SPEAKER_00: So here are some mistakes to be aware of.
- 4:39SPEAKER_00: The first one, I'm gonna say the obvious one, but maybe it isn't, but it's your shutter speed is too slow.
- 4:44SPEAKER_00: So having too slow a shutter speed can lead to two problems.
- 4:48SPEAKER_00: One is that the camera might move during exposure, either you're not maybe you're holding it at a lower shutter speed and you're just not steady enough, or when you press the shutter button down, you introduce a small movement, or it might be that the subject moves during the exposure.
- 5:05SPEAKER_00: Now, the shutter speed that's fast enough to prevent camera shake isn't necessarily fast enough to freeze your subject, and that's really important to understand.
- 5:15SPEAKER_00: So you to overcome camera shake, you might need to be shooting at, let's say, something a little bit faster than one sixtieth of a second.
- 5:23SPEAKER_00: But if you've got a subject that's moving much faster and you need to be shooting at, say, one four hundredth of a second to freeze it or even faster, obviously, there's a difference there.
- 5:34SPEAKER_00: So the thing to remember is to make sure you're using a shutter speed that is appropriate for what's moving and not just the focal length of your lens.
- 5:47SPEAKER_00: So, um, again, if you're not familiar, there's a general guideline with full frame cameras.
- 5:53SPEAKER_00: The minimum shutter speed to use when you're hand-holding the camera is the reciprocal of the focal length.
- 5:59SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, if you've got a 100 millimeter lens, you don't go any slower than one one hundredth of a second.
- 6:05SPEAKER_00: And if you're using a cropped sensor, just multiply the focal length by two and use the same rules.
- 6:11SPEAKER_00: So, again, if you've got a 100 millimeter lens, go no slower than one two hundredth of a second to make sure that you have no camera shake introduced by you.
- 6:21SPEAKER_00: But obviously, depending on what you're photographing, if you want to completely freeze the movement, and you might you might also want some movement in there so that most of the uh the image is sharp, but areas, other areas aren't.
- 6:33SPEAKER_00: So an example of this is when I was photographing, I photographed aircraft, air shows, and if they do a low high-speed pass over the runway, if you pan correctly with them, and this is using something like 125th of a second, and the same with motor racing as well.
- 6:50SPEAKER_00: If you're panning with the vehicle or the aircraft, you could if you've got it absolutely right, that vehicle or that aircraft will be perfectly sharp, but the background behind them will be blurred because obviously, relative to the background, you've moved the camera while the shutter was open.
- 7:07SPEAKER_00: And equally with vehicles, you've also got the rotation in the wheels and the tires.
- 7:11SPEAKER_00: So that can introduce movement, but that's very deliberate.
- 7:14SPEAKER_00: But the key thing is to have the subject, which would be the aircraft or the car nice and sharp.
- 7:21SPEAKER_00: So, again, depending on what you're photographing, you need to decide what sort of shutter speed you need to be using in order to um get rid of any movement that you might have in there.
- 7:32SPEAKER_00: So that's the first thing, shutter speed.
- 7:35SPEAKER_00: The second thing is your focus on the wrong thing.
- 7:39SPEAKER_00: So this comes down to how you're using your autofocus.
- 7:47SPEAKER_00: How have you set up your autofocus point selection?
- 7:51SPEAKER_00: Um, how is it detecting the subject?
- 7:55SPEAKER_00: Is it able to choose the intended subject or is it picking up on something else?
- 8:00SPEAKER_00: Uh, there could be a distraction in there, something that, for example, is high contrast that the autofocus system is latching on to.
- 8:08SPEAKER_00: So, what can you do about that?
- 8:10SPEAKER_00: Well, the first thing is to understand how your autofocus system is just deciding what to focus on.
- 8:18SPEAKER_00: And you would normally do that.
- 8:20SPEAKER_00: There's two stages to do this.
- 8:21SPEAKER_00: One is to set the focal points, the autofocus points, which on I'm going to say most cameras can be a group of AF points, or you might be able to narrow that down to a single AF point, which is what I tend to use.
- 8:35SPEAKER_00: And the second thing is if you have AI in your autofocus system, so that would be where you have automatic tracking of faces or people or animals, whatever it might be.
- 8:47SPEAKER_00: What's that?
- 8:48SPEAKER_00: How familiar are you with that and how it's working?
- 8:51SPEAKER_00: Because that might also be locking onto the wrong thing.
- 8:54SPEAKER_00: So a couple of ways to handle that.
- 8:58SPEAKER_00: First off, I always use the smallest focus point, the one in the center of the screen, because that gives me the best chance of eliminating anything that might get in front of the subject, for example, grass, while I'm setting the focus.
- 9:15SPEAKER_00: And the second thing I do is back button focus.
- 9:19SPEAKER_00: So what I've done there is I've actually separated out the autofocus activation.
- 9:27SPEAKER_00: So the way that works by default is when you press the shutter button halfway down, the camera takes its light meter reading and it also sets the autofocus.
- 9:36SPEAKER_00: So that's when the autofocus will activate.
- 10:07SPEAKER_00: Takes it behind trees and then in view again and then behind again, all that kind of thing.
- 10:11SPEAKER_00: Obviously, as you're tracking, the autofocus is going to lose contact with the bird, and then it's going to try and focus on something else.
- 10:17SPEAKER_00: So it'll be constantly hunting for the subject, and you don't want that.
- 10:23SPEAKER_00: So provided you are setting up, and I think of it as a focus box, an in-focus box.
- 10:28SPEAKER_00: So I'm using the focal point, which is the bird.
- 10:32SPEAKER_00: I've set a depth of field, which means that bird can move around a little bit towards me and away from me, and still be in focus.
- 10:39SPEAKER_00: And then that means I can then shoot with the AF separates by using back button focus.
- 10:44SPEAKER_00: When I press the shutter button, that's not changing the focus at all, and then I can just take my picture.
- 10:50SPEAKER_00: So that's one way of doing it.
- 10:53SPEAKER_00: So that would be my suggestion.
- 10:58SPEAKER_00: But the very first thing to do is make sure you understand how your autofocus is set up and is it set up the way that's most likely to give you good results?
- 11:09SPEAKER_00: And if you're getting um things that are definitely out of focus because the camera simply isn't focused on the subject, then that's where I'd start looking first.
- 11:20SPEAKER_00: Mistake number three, I've already mentioned depth of field.
- 11:23SPEAKER_00: So if you're using too shallow a depth of field, then it means your in-focus box, if you like, is just too thin.
- 11:31SPEAKER_00: It does, it's not deep enough.
- 11:33SPEAKER_00: So it's very easy for your subject to move outside uh the range of distance where it would be in sharp focus.
- 11:42SPEAKER_00: So, how do you know that?
- 11:44SPEAKER_00: Well, the the way this can come about is that an eye is sharp, but the rest of the face isn't.
- 11:52SPEAKER_00: One animal is sharp, but other animals around it are not, or parts of the subject fall outside what's in focus.
- 11:59SPEAKER_00: And the other thing, the other problem you have when you've got a very shallow depth of field is that a small focusing error is much more obvious.
- 12:07SPEAKER_00: You you instantly go out of focus and you've instantly lost the focus on the thing that you're really interested in.
- 12:16SPEAKER_00: One assumption that I would definitely challenge is that a wide aperture, so as in a small F number, so a narrow depth of field gives you a better photograph.
- 12:26SPEAKER_00: I like to work with a fairly narrow depth of field, but the depth of field has to be appropriate for the subject you're shooting and how you want that final image to look.
- 12:37SPEAKER_00: So, obviously, the purpose of putting the background out of focus is to direct the viewer's eye to your subject, but you need to uh really choose the aperture for the photograph you want to make, and don't just go, don't default to a really wide aperture every time because you're likely to you're honestly making your your life much more difficult than it really needs to be.
- 12:59SPEAKER_00: So that's point number three.
- 13:02SPEAKER_00: Um, number four is that you're relying on image stabilization to freeze movement.
- 13:08SPEAKER_00: So image stabilization helps compensate for camera movement for sure, but it's I regard it as a fine-tuning, it's not the the main way to um freeze movement, so it's image stabilization is not going to freeze a moving bird, it's not going to freeze a moving animal, it's not gonna freeze a a walking person, etc.
- 13:37SPEAKER_00: Um, what it will help you do is to hand hold um your camera and lens and shoot with a lower shutter speed than you would without image stabilization.
- 13:49SPEAKER_00: So that's primarily what it's doing.
- 13:53SPEAKER_00: So image stabilization is removing, so earlier on I spoke about the different where the movement is coming from, whether it's from you or from the subject.
- 14:02SPEAKER_00: So image stabilization is useful when it comes to minimizing the movement you're introducing, but anything beyond that, it it really can't uh cope with that.
- 14:15SPEAKER_00: That's not what it's there for.
- 14:17SPEAKER_00: So you need to use a different technique if the movement is coming from something external like a running animal.
- 14:23SPEAKER_00: So that is number four.
- 14:24SPEAKER_00: Number five, uh, could be simple technique.
- 14:27SPEAKER_00: You're moving the camera when you press the shutter.
- 14:30SPEAKER_00: So um, this is where if you think that might be the problem, and you'll definitely see it at lower shutter speeds.
- 14:42SPEAKER_00: Look at how you're holding the camera.
- 14:44SPEAKER_00: Are you braced?
- 14:45SPEAKER_00: Uh, how do you handle a long lens?
- 14:47SPEAKER_00: So remember with a long lens, you a very tiny movement, uh, because of the way the optics um amplify the or magnify the subject, a very small movement in your lens will immediately have you lose the subject, it will go out of frame, or you'll introduce um some sort of movement there.
- 15:05SPEAKER_00: So, how do you support a long lens?
- 15:07SPEAKER_00: What's your body position like?
- 15:08SPEAKER_00: Are you are you fairly solid?
- 15:10SPEAKER_00: Are you fairly rigid, or are you a little bit wobbly?
- 15:13SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're stabbing at the shutter button, then that is much more likely to introduce movement at the point, the moment when the shutter's opening and closing.
- 15:22SPEAKER_00: It needs to be a gentle press, and then you just follow through and hold.
- 15:26SPEAKER_00: So it's a single movement, a nice gentle, even movement down on the shutter button, and you'll hear it normally.
- 15:34SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the click, the the audio feedback to be technical about it, but you know the shutter's closed again, you know, that it's opened and closed.
- 15:43SPEAKER_00: Um if you're in an awkward shooting position, that can be more tricky.
- 15:48SPEAKER_00: And in that situation, rather than press the shutter button yourself, it might be better to look at using a remote release.
- 15:58SPEAKER_00: So something you attach either on a cable or a Bluetooth, where you can position the camera where it needs to be, but you actually press the shutter remotely by pressing the this remote device.
- 16:09SPEAKER_00: Or if you don't have one of those, think about a three-second timer or your whatever the timing is.
- 16:14SPEAKER_00: So on most cameras, you'll have two self-timers.
- 16:17SPEAKER_00: One will be around the three-second mark, one around 10 seconds.
- 16:21SPEAKER_00: And the purpose of those is a three-second is to allow you to eliminate shake introduced by you pressing the shutter button, and the 10-second is to allow you to hopefully get in front of the camera and have a bit of a selfie.
- 16:36SPEAKER_00: So those can definitely be problems.
- 16:38SPEAKER_00: Um, other issues you've got if you're shooting from a vehicle, a moving vehicle, uh, you need to up the shutter speed, or if you're in a wildlife 4x4, sometimes they'll keep the engine running with things like elephants, um, just in case the animal reacts, and that means they can get out of danger very quickly.
- 16:58SPEAKER_00: But it does mean that if you're resting the lens on the side of the vehicle, you may well be getting a vibration from the engine coming through the bodywork, and that may result in some movement in the image.
- 17:11SPEAKER_00: So the thing to do there is to damp it out by putting a pad of some sort, it might be a rolled up jacket, um, whatever you've got between the vehicle body and your lens so that you eliminate that.
- 17:23SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, the other option is to look at a monopod or a tripod, um, if that's um going to be the best way to solve the problem.
- 17:31SPEAKER_00: So if you want to try that out, an exercise you can do is to take 10 photographs of the stationary subject.
- 17:40SPEAKER_00: Um, don't change the settings, but just concentrate on how you're holding the camera and how you press the shutter button.
- 17:49SPEAKER_00: And just make sure that you're getting nice, solid, sharp photographs every time.
- 17:56SPEAKER_00: And if you if there is a problem with your technique, uh look at your breathing.
- 18:00SPEAKER_00: So hold take a breath in and hold your breath while you're pressing the shutter button.
- 18:04SPEAKER_00: Um, get your elbows tucked into your sides so that you become more solid, and those two things will help.
- 18:12SPEAKER_00: And if that doesn't help, then see if you can lean against something, just brace yourself against something.
- 18:19SPEAKER_00: Okay, um, number six, you're confusing technical sharpness with perceived sharpness.
- 18:25SPEAKER_00: So this is what I was speaking about early on, and there's edge contrast, so strong edges tend to look much sharper than soft edges.
- 18:35SPEAKER_00: So, you know, this is where a perfectly sharp image technically can look out of focus.
- 18:41SPEAKER_00: It actually isn't, but it will look that way.
- 18:44SPEAKER_00: Um, lighting is another factor, so good directional lighting reveals texture and detail, it gives you it's easier to see the details in the subject, so it will appear much sharper.
- 18:56SPEAKER_00: But obviously, a softer lighting will tend to uh kind of you don't get such a distinctive look on the uh on the subject, and that can make the image look out of focus.
- 19:09SPEAKER_00: Where you've got a contrasting background, that will definitely make the subject appear more defined.
- 19:15SPEAKER_00: If you've got fine textures, that will definitely reinforce the impression of detail.
- 19:21SPEAKER_00: So, one of the ways that we determine whether something is sharp or not is by how clearly we can see the details.
- 19:28SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing that is easy to trip trip over on is how you're viewing the image.
- 19:37SPEAKER_00: So, comparing an image from normal size to 100% on um a screen, that image can look very different at 100%.
- 19:49SPEAKER_00: And often that's because at that size we're starting to pull pixels apart.
- 19:55SPEAKER_00: So there are two forms of zoom.
- 19:57SPEAKER_00: Zoom is about you know getting closer to the subject.
- 20:00SPEAKER_00: Optical zoom is what we want to do because it visually gets us closer and we get more detail as we zoom in optically.
- 20:09SPEAKER_00: As we zoom in digitally, what we're doing is we're not adding detail, we're blowing up the image, we're making it bigger, but we're not adding detail.
- 20:16SPEAKER_00: So the detail that is there is getting pulled further apart, and that will naturally make it look softer.
- 20:22SPEAKER_00: Um with processing um sharpening, one of the things you can do with sharpening is actually increase the edge definition of um the different elements within the image.
- 20:35SPEAKER_00: So that will increase the perception of it looking looking sharp.
- 20:42SPEAKER_00: Um again, an important thing to remember here is a photograph doesn't have to be razor sharp at 100% magnification to be successful.
- 20:49SPEAKER_00: Uh, normally you're not looking at images at that um size.
- 20:54SPEAKER_00: And this is particularly true when you're printing, actually, because if you are up to a certain size, it's nice to have a nice high resolution print resolution, something like 300 um dots per inch.
- 21:07SPEAKER_00: But once you go above that size, that's probably around um A3, maybe A3, A2, because as you get bigger than that, you tend to move back from the image so that you can take it all in.
- 21:19SPEAKER_00: And as you get further back, you don't need that high red high print resolution.
- 21:23SPEAKER_00: So you you can actually get away on much bigger prints with something like 150 um dots print.
- 21:29SPEAKER_00: So the same is true with the digital part of it, pixels per inch.
- 21:35SPEAKER_00: Um, with a small image, you don't need massive resolution there because it will look sharp anyway.
- 21:42SPEAKER_00: Remember, the limitation that you have when you're looking at an image on, say, um a laptop is the screen resolution.
- 21:49SPEAKER_00: So it really doesn't matter what resolution you've got in the image, it's it's if it's higher than the screen resolution, it still won't look any better.
- 21:57SPEAKER_00: So all of these things are um aspects that influence how the an image is perceived, how shy.
- 22:08SPEAKER_00: It's perceived to be.
- 22:09SPEAKER_00: So it's really important not to confuse technical perfection with photographic success and technical sharpness with perceived sharpness.
- 22:20SPEAKER_00: The problem is if you confuse the two, you'll think that your lens, something wrong with your lens, or something wrong with you, whatever it is.
- 22:25SPEAKER_00: And in fact, there's nothing wrong at all.
- 22:27SPEAKER_00: The images are great.
- 22:28SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 22:33SPEAKER_00: The final one is number seven, is you're trying to fix capture problems in post-processing.
- 22:39SPEAKER_00: So what can post-processing deliver?
- 22:43SPEAKER_00: Well, it can enhance existing details, so it can make those edges sharper, it can increase the definition on edges.
- 22:51SPEAKER_00: That in turn improves the perceived crispness or sharpness of the image.
- 22:55SPEAKER_00: And you can use it to optimize an image for its final output so you get the balance of colour and contrast and everything else.
- 23:01SPEAKER_00: And that's essentially the process you would use when you take a raw image, which is what I recommend you shoot in.
- 23:10SPEAKER_00: And a well-exposed raw image will actually look very flat.
- 23:13SPEAKER_00: That means you've got it ripe.
- 23:14SPEAKER_00: So you need to do post-processing to then bring that image alive again.
- 23:19SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, get the sharpness in there.
- 23:22SPEAKER_00: So that's what post-processing can deliver.
- 23:24SPEAKER_00: What it can't do is fix really badly misfocused.
- 23:30SPEAKER_00: Some software packages will correct um focus issues or blurring to a point, but there are definite limits to what it's able to do.
- 23:40SPEAKER_00: If you've got substantial motion blur, it can't fix that.
- 23:42SPEAKER_00: If you've got major camera shake, you can't fix that.
- 23:46SPEAKER_00: And if your depth of field is insufficient, you can't fix that either.
- 23:51SPEAKER_00: So post-processing improves a photograph, but it can't recreate detail that the camera didn't record.
- 23:59SPEAKER_00: So it is about enhancing what's already there rather than adding something else.
- 24:08SPEAKER_00: So um I want to finish with the um the seven question sharpness test here.
- 24:14SPEAKER_00: So when and and this is in the um the the checklist as well.
- 24:19SPEAKER_00: So if you don't have to, if you're making notes, you shouldn't have to write this down or anything.
- 24:24SPEAKER_00: So when a photograph doesn't look sharp, first thing to ask, was my shutter speed fast enough for the subject?
- 24:30SPEAKER_00: Secondly, did either the camera or the subject move?
- 24:35SPEAKER_00: Number three, did I focus on the right part of the subject?
- 24:40SPEAKER_00: Number four, was my depth of field sufficient?
- 24:45SPEAKER_00: Number five, was I holding and operating the camera properly?
- 24:51SPEAKER_00: Number six, is this actually a technical sharpness problem or is it a perceived sharpness problem?
- 24:58SPEAKER_00: And then finally, number seven, am I expecting post-processing to fix something that went wrong when I took the photograph?
- 25:05SPEAKER_00: So this is essentially what's in the checklist, and you're very welcome to um drop that down.
- 25:11SPEAKER_00: So, as I've said, there is the uh the this simple seven-point checklist you can um download.
- 25:18SPEAKER_00: Uh, it covers pretty much um what I've discussed in this podcast, and um there is a link in the podcast to access that, or there should be.
- 25:30SPEAKER_00: Um now the podcasts end up on different platforms, and I don't get direct access to all of them.
- 25:37SPEAKER_00: So um you're very welcome to just drop me an email if you can't get access to it for whatever reason, and I will send you a copy.
- 25:43SPEAKER_00: It's probably the easiest thing.
- 25:45SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, that that that pretty much closes it.
- 25:51SPEAKER_00: So the next time you take a look at a photograph and you're thinking that's not sharp, that don't immediately uh well definitely don't reach for your credit card or blame the camera or go out and buy really expensive lens because that might solve the problem.
- 26:04SPEAKER_00: Um just get a bit analytical about why it isn't sharp and also you know, and the kind of issue, is it perceived, is it actual sharpness?
- 26:11SPEAKER_00: And this will really, really help you, not only in hopefully not spending a lot of money, uh, but understanding a bit more about what you're doing wrong because this is how we improve.
- 26:20SPEAKER_00: We realize we're making an error in some form, and um that that's it.
- 26:24SPEAKER_00: So look, that's it for uh this week.
- 26:26SPEAKER_00: I hope you found this useful.
- 26:28SPEAKER_00: I shall be back uh next week, and I'm just checking my list because I'll be looking at yeah, um why your camera isn't necessarily the problem.
- 26:39SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna leave that hanging there so you'll you'll have to sit on that for a week.
- 26:43SPEAKER_00: So have a great week, and uh the next podcast will be live on Friday.
- 26:48SPEAKER_00: So I'll speak to you then.
- 26:49SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.