Latest / The Lagging Team / What Are You Carrying Into It?

Transcript

What Are You Carrying Into It? · The Lagging Team

0:00
Nicole Morris: And so,
0:01
part of what I've had to unlearn, especially in this
0:05
particular cycle of work,
0:08
is how to step back and and let it fall apart if it needs to,
0:13
because it's not my role to fix. This is The
0:17
Lagging Team. Falling behind is a position, not a verdict.
0:22
Today's episode: What are you carrying into
0:31
it? I have one of the most amazing guests that I've ever
0:36
had in my entire life, my entire lifetime, and I've spent more
0:41
than a half a century on the planet. But allow me to
0:44
introduce someone to you who does really amazing things,
0:50
and she happens to be my wife.
0:53
Her name is Nicole Lynn Morris.
0:56
She has spent
0:58
more than 20 years in corporate leadership, strategy, and
1:03
transformations, running implementations, re-engineering
1:08
how work moves across whole organizations. The part of the
1:14
project where the plan actually meets the people. She's the
1:18
founder of Labels Be Gone and the author of "It's Not Me, It's
1:24
You: Take Their Labels Off," and the host of The Permission Slip.
1:30
As I said to you, this is my wife, so y'all gotta treat her
1:34
special. And here's what I gotta say to you: Before she was my
1:38
wife, she spent like 17 years running implementations, which
1:43
is exactly why I'm having her here. She's watched what teams
1:49
carry into a room before anybody whispers a single word.
1:57
Here's the deal. Here's the premise.
2:00
What I keep coming back to,
2:02
a team gets called behind long before anybody actually proves
2:08
it, and once that word lands, people start working like it's
2:12
actually true.
2:14
What I would love for you to do, Nicole, is take me to an
2:18
implementation where you first saw a team get labeled before it
2:23
got measured.
2:25
Well, thank you, husband. First and foremost, got me teasing and
2:30
stuff. So, thank you for that wonderful intro. Okay, so I have
2:35
a lot, actually, a lot of experiences where teams are
2:39
perceptively behind. Sometimes, maybe even actually behind, and
2:44
generally, what's happening before they get into a room.
2:48
Number one depends on which room they're going into. From an
2:52
implementation perspective, especially if it's external
2:56
client-facing implementations, there's a lot of rooms with a
2:59
lot of different perspectives and conversations happening
3:02
about that same implementation. So I think the first way to
3:05
shape that particular response, what happens before they walk
3:08
into the room, is to say, "Which room am I walking into a room
3:13
where I have a an anxious client or an anxious consultant or an
3:17
anxious external partner?"
3:20
And then what's happening internally once that message,
3:24
that perceptive messaging of being behind, whether it's true
3:27
or just anxiety, is happening,
3:32
is that looks like
3:35
missed communication. Honestly, is what that looks like. It
3:39
looks like maybe it's a missed expectation that was set during
3:44
initial scoping. Maybe it's a missed opportunity to
3:50
communicate timeliness. Maybe it's a missed internal
3:54
communication about resource constraints that does not yet
3:58
bubble up to the teams who are responsible for messaging
4:01
externally, so I think there's a lot of things that can play into
4:05
what's happening before a team even comes into the room. Or in
4:09
my particular field of work, if a team is perceptively behind or
4:13
actually behind for too long, those teams actually end up
4:16
changing sometimes because client satisfaction becomes key.
4:19
So I think it depends on which role.
4:23
The is it perception versus actuality? Is there something
4:25
that you need to deal with with messaging,
4:28
or is there something that needs to happen from a resource
4:30
perspective?
4:32
Yeah, a lot of times you you hear people say out loud that a
4:36
team is behind, and and what are some of the things that you
4:40
actually do
4:42
so that you know whether they're behind or is just something
4:48
other than that.
4:50
Well, again, it all comes back to expectation and what
4:54
expectation was set
4:57
at the beginning of a conversation.
5:00
If deliverables are actually not being met on time, then from my
5:06
perspective as a as a client facing PM, the team is is
5:12
behind. There there's no way to shape that. However, I think
5:16
managing the messaging around what behind really produces in
5:21
terms of risk that becomes the pivot.
5:26
Yeah, that's that's interesting because a lot of times when I go
5:28
into rooms,
5:30
it's one of those things where it's almost like they're saying
5:33
I'm behind. So you know, when when you see these situations
5:37
happen,
5:38
who really gets that blame first
5:42
when it comes down to these teams,
5:48
that's a good question.
5:51
The messenger,
5:54
whoever is the messenger, is the one
5:57
that that kind of can get the blame, and I have a hard time
6:03
with the word blame, right? Because typically, it's not
6:05
about it's not about the people, right? And it is usually if
6:10
something is behind or is not being delivered in the time in
6:13
which it was committed to, it's usually about a process
6:17
breakdown. It's not necessarily about the people,
6:22
and so there's either a gap in the analysis, there's a
6:25
misunderstanding in the requirement or in the scope.
6:30
There
6:31
is something a communication breakdown at the forefront or
6:34
the kickoff of a project that just doesn't allow what actually
6:39
needs to be done to get carried through. Sometimes, a lot of
6:43
times in my particular industry, it is not understanding the
6:46
requirements. Sometimes you can't understand the
6:49
requirements until you get into unpacking them because they're
6:51
so nuanced.
6:53
And then it is actually having though the person or the people
6:58
leading that know how to
7:01
quickly put their hands on a solution, or know how to ask the
7:04
right questions, or get the question or the need in front of
7:06
the right senior leadership, so that things can start moving.
7:10
Is typically my experience, but I have a I have a I have a
7:13
challenge with that word blame because when people hear the
7:16
word blame, they internalize it like they did something wrong,
7:21
and many times, they people were put into position by
7:25
circumstance. It's not necessarily like we're showing
7:28
up and we did something wrong, or we didn't know, or we half
7:31
did something, or misunderstood. So, you know, that word blame
7:34
makes me go like that.
7:37
Well, you know, well, you you you said beautifully in the book
7:41
that you write,
7:43
you know about labels, right? And blame seems to be one of
7:46
those labels. And so I'm I'm curious when you see that word
7:51
blame, whether it's being called out as the name blame, or you
7:55
see it in the activities that's happening around you, how do you
7:58
deal with the impact to the team, and how do you communicate
8:05
that thought to leadership about that particular label?
8:12
Well, first of all, I think we should probably take a step back
8:15
and say,
8:18
"Does why does the need to blame come up versus having a
8:22
solution-oriented conversation.
8:26
Sometimes it just is what it is, and you need to fix it. And you
8:30
can go back and do a post mortem, a five why, or whatever
8:33
the root cause analysis is for the delay. You can go back and
8:36
do that after the tensions are reduced.
8:41
And so I think the first thing is to think about what puts a
8:44
person in in a position where they feel like they need to
8:48
assign blame. I
8:50
remember I was interviewing at one of the big three firms, and
8:55
I was interviewing for
8:57
cost containment role,
8:59
and
9:01
the hiring manager. This is the first time I had ever heard this
9:04
term. He said, "You're gonna be the one throat to choke if
9:09
something goes wrong," and I was like, "Huh, that's interesting."
9:14
And then, of course, I took it like a personal challenge. Like,
9:16
bring it because you're never gonna choke my throat because
9:20
I'm gonna make sure that the teams fall in line.
9:24
Now I didn't end up getting that role, and I'm glad I didn't
9:27
because that was a that was a unfortunate statement for me to
9:31
make to try to put the whole weight of the responsibility of
9:33
success on me for an entire you know what do we talk about you
9:38
know 17 departments minimum cross functional
9:42
some of them working agile. Some of them work in waterfall. Some
9:45
of them are tech-related. Some of them are operations. They
9:47
speak very different languages. Oftentimes, not to each other at
9:51
the same time, using the same terminology. And for me to be
9:54
like, "Well, bring it," I was taking on an incredible amount.
9:59
I was able.
10:00
An incredible amount of unnecessary pressure that nobody
10:03
asked me to do that, but in that moment, the
10:08
leader that may have that sort of expectation or want to place
10:13
that on the team is probably somewhat someone that struggles
10:17
with perfectionism
10:19
or feels like they have a lot personally at stake,
10:23
a lot where maybe the success of their job is a direct reflection
10:28
to them perceptively of how successful they are in life,
10:32
and I think a lot of times we bring those attributes into our
10:36
leadership roles and into our into our work interactions,
10:41
whether we're leading from behind or you have a formal
10:44
title, I think a lot of those things that we that come with
10:47
us, you know, throughout our whole life, kind of show up in
10:50
how we show up in spaces. So I would even start there. Like,
10:55
what's that leader bringing to that table? And then in terms of
10:58
how, so if if I am the person that is leading the team, I
11:04
think you got to be careful with that, right? Because sometimes
11:07
your natural response is going to be
11:11
to go one way or the other. It's to go all out to please your
11:14
client, whether it's an internal or an external stakeholder,
11:18
or it's going to be all out to protect your team, and one of
11:22
the things that I work to balance, no matter what kind of
11:26
project I'm working on,
11:28
sometimes I'm advocating for my clients with my internal
11:32
partners, and then sometimes I'm advocating for my internal
11:37
partners with my clients. Like sometimes it's okay to just say
11:41
no,
11:42
and I think that's a natural reaction. Honestly, to find that
11:47
balance, that's a natural reaction of some of the work
11:50
that I've done. The work that I've done on myself to not like
11:54
let myself either be the the overachiever in me who wanted to
11:58
be perfect all the time, and not just kind of lean into let me
12:01
get this done, which can then produce some negative outputs to
12:05
the team. If I'm getting this done at all costs, that usually
12:07
means I'm grinding my team and I'm grinding their spirit, and
12:11
I'm and I'm probably not being very gracious when I
12:15
do it. So it's been
12:18
learning how to not show up like that, and really being cautious
12:21
and conscious of the impact I'm having on people. So, I
12:25
personally, if I'm in those positions, I really try to
12:27
strike a balance. And when there needs to be accountability for
12:29
the team, like it is what it is. However, we are going to have a
12:33
factually based conversation about what's happening. Why is
12:38
it, you know, why is it delayed? What do we need to?
12:43
What do we need to get it back on track? What do we need to get
12:45
back to green? Is it even realistic? Do we need to have
12:48
another conversation? And then who do I need to hand that
12:51
conversation to?
12:53
That sorts of things. So it's all sorts of ways to kind of
12:55
navigate some of those. But from a balance perspective, that is
12:59
all that's aligned with who I am as a person,
13:03
I I do accountability both ways, including to clients, which is
13:06
sometimes uncomfortable, but it is what it is.
13:09
So so,
13:11
man, that's a that's a lot to unpack, right? And you you said
13:15
17 departments, right?
13:18
1500 Data points,
13:21
you know, you you just took us inside of that, and and then
13:26
what you kind of ended that with is really three different
13:30
perspectives that you have to deal with from your seat.
13:35
Client, you said leadership, and you said
13:39
the team, right? And
13:41
then with 17 departments, some of them gonna be ahead on time.
13:48
Some of them gonna be behind. That is a lot to balance. So,
13:54
how do you initially approach that when you like step into it?
14:01
So, when you have that much
14:04
cross-functional coordination that's happening,
14:07
and it's typically the same team, the same type of work that
14:10
the outcomes have to be the same, even if the way that you
14:12
get to the outcome changes in scenario by scenario, you kind
14:16
of have a sense for which teams which teams may give you a
14:22
little bit more challenge to manage
14:26
than the ones that don't, especially because it's
14:28
repetition.
14:30
So it's it's most most importantly is getting familiar.
14:34
My first step when I go into any organization is to get familiar
14:39
with that organization, and one of the things that I tell people
14:42
who report to me, the most important thing that you can
14:44
learn about this role and about this organization is how to get
14:49
around this organization, because with so many
14:53
cross-functional
14:55
interdependencies that are tiered in phase.
15:00
In how they have to be executed is is not a linear process at
15:04
all.
15:07
Being able to understand how quickly you can get a question
15:10
in front of the right person is going to be critical. So it
15:15
really is spending the time to understand how to get around the
15:19
org.
15:21
I have a leg up because I've been doing this in the same
15:24
industry for a while. So generally speaking, I kind of
15:26
know,
15:28
or I know how to assess where an org or a team might have a
15:33
particular challenge. If they have a team of new folks, and I
15:37
just have a couple of conversations, and I can hear
15:40
they may struggle, let's say, with the data exchange portion.
15:43
Do they understand what the data exchange portion is, or do I
15:46
understand how this org thinks about data? Right, because
15:50
it's important for us to understand as people who are
15:54
effectuating the change. It's important for us to understand
15:58
how to phrase the question to get the response that we need.
16:02
So again, that's another fourth layer, right? Like, where do I
16:05
fit in the middle of all of those perspectives? Is
16:11
another thing, and and how quickly I'm a person. I like to
16:13
cut through the noise,
16:15
and so I'm going to find out what's important to everybody up
16:17
front, and then like basically, how do we keep everybody on page
16:22
and on front with like delivering according to the
16:24
expectations that you have, or do we need to adjust this
16:27
expectation? Am I the messenger for that expectation adjustment?
16:31
Not all the time. Sometimes I have to be,
16:35
and we deal with that. But
16:39
no, that makes sense to me, and I'm curious because we we we've
16:43
been talking about leadership and everything else, and and you
16:46
are a leadership that has you know your own stuff that you
16:52
walk into the room with, right? And I'm curious when I think
16:56
about the word just some identities, the expert, the
17:02
strong one, the peacemaker, the overachiever.
17:07
Which one do you classically walk into the room with?
17:14
Do I have to pick?
17:16
You don't have to do anything.
17:20
You know what? Honestly, because
17:24
my
17:25
so my personal trauma makes me show up as an overachiever
17:29
because it was a coping mechanism,
17:32
and so my work became the way that I escaped. I didn't escape
17:38
into other habits. I escaped into work. So my personal trauma
17:42
has me walking into the room as the person who's going to
17:46
get it done and get it right, which lends itself
17:52
very explicitly to the strong one,
17:56
because
17:57
I'm also going to be the person I want everybody to feel safe,
18:02
and because I want everybody to feel safe,
18:06
I'm going to be the one that people can
18:10
relax into and say, "Okay, I don't have to necessarily think
18:14
about it because Nicole's got it." But now, why does Nicole
18:18
have it? Nicole has it because she's an overachiever who found
18:23
validation of her inside of her internal self through the
18:29
outputs of her work because that was the only thing that I could
18:32
control. So I'm feeding my control mechanisms
18:38
through my work and how I show up in a project,
18:42
the expert again lends it. How can you overachieve if you don't
18:47
know everything,
18:49
right? Or if you don't have a semblance of being able to know
18:53
everything?
18:55
And I forget what was the other one that you said. Strong one.
18:58
Yeah, I said that we talked through the strong
19:02
one, the the okay, and even the peacemaker. It's like I joke, I
19:07
joke sometimes at work about like the dentist and Django. So
19:11
the dentist and Django like would go in and he would set all
19:13
this stuff off, and then he'd jump off of his carriage and be
19:16
like, "Everybody, calm down." And I always joke that like I'm
19:21
the dentist and Django.
19:23
Mine is blowing everything up unless I need to, but I'm always
19:25
the one like everybody calm down,
19:29
and then I get everybody calm, I get everybody dependent, I get
19:33
everybody reliant, but the challenge for that becomes that
19:38
I don't get a respite, and then I set an I set an expectation
19:43
that number one is probably ego driven more than anything,
19:47
and while I'm able to meet it, I cripple the team when I do that.
19:52
Okay. And so
19:54
part of what I've had to unlearn, especially in this
19:58
particular cycle of work.
20:01
Is how to step back and and let it fall apart if it needs to,
20:06
because it's not my role to fix, which is difficult for somebody
20:11
right who
20:12
was the expert and the answer and all the things.
20:16
And so I had to get comfortable letting people stand up. It
20:20
created very unhealthy work-life balance for me
20:26
with outcomes because
20:30
we would joke in my first marriage that I was cheating on
20:32
my husband with my laptop.
20:35
Yeah, yeah. And my children, when when they were growing up,
20:39
it was almost just like don't talk to mom because she's
20:43
working,
20:45
and the messaging was almost like the work is more important
20:48
than you.
20:50
And really, what I was chasing was just coping with things that
20:55
I hadn't dealt with,
20:57
which is kind of some of the stuff we talk about in the book.
20:59
But that's how it showed up at work, and so for my for my
21:02
leadership and for my and you know for my management, it was
21:05
like amazing because they could give Nicole just about anything
21:10
and not have to worry about it. But it wasn't healthy for me.
21:14
And the other thing was, I set myself up, which is important as
21:18
a black woman to say so. You know, I set myself up
21:24
to not command the right value because I showed up at 250%, no
21:29
matter what the salary was, no matter what the reciprocity was,
21:33
no matter whether or not they saw my humanity and respected my
21:36
gifts or my talents. We were talking yesterday about a a
21:42
former. place where I was employed, where one of the
21:45
owners would not even acknowledge my humanity. He
21:47
would just be like, "We never had that skill set here before."
21:50
And
21:51
but the ego in me, the person who was still working from a
21:56
damaged place and needed the validity of that job, still
22:00
showed up for somebody who clearly did not appreciate
22:03
everything that I brought to the table for whatever reason, and
22:07
that's not a good place to leave from either. So I know this is
22:10
we can have this conversation from a number of perspectives,
22:13
right? In terms of how leaders show up with the labels and how
22:16
that can come out,
22:19
with how employees show up with the labels and how that can come
22:22
out.
22:24
Honestly, how it kind of turns into like this new element that
22:30
I'm exploring, like the cultural algorithm of an of a work
22:34
environment, like what is celebrated, what is tolerated,
22:36
are we even aware, like what we're pulling out of people
22:40
based on the standards we set, so that conversation can go a
22:43
lot of a lot of directions.
22:47
Here's the deal: before I even touch on the cultural algorithm,
22:53
right?
22:55
We talked about those four identities, and you gave us a
22:59
really good description. We talked about the expert. We
23:03
talked about the strong one. We talked about the peacemaker, and
23:07
you also talked about the overachiever. I'm just curious,
23:10
just to make sure I'm not confused. Which of the four is
23:13
the most expensive one for a team to work under?
23:19
The
23:21
most expensive one. That's a good question.
23:25
It's probably the strong
23:28
one because when you because when you project the strength,
23:33
you're afraid to acknowledge your risks and when you might
23:37
not have it all together.
23:39
And just like
23:42
personal personal dispositions, you've got to be able to say
23:49
something is wrong. This needs help. This is a risk, and you've
23:54
got to be okay. Even if that, even if you're going to take
23:57
that in as a reflection of you personally, it's a level of
24:01
vulnerability that cannot coexist when you are always
24:06
projecting strength
24:08
that teams need. They need to be able to be successful. Okay, so
24:12
then
24:13
the question I would ask you, just to kind of
24:16
tag on to that, is how did the team learn to work around
24:27
it.
24:30
I think they just push through.
24:32
I think they really, honestly, just
24:37
ground themselves in
24:40
just getting it done, which is good because you deliver, but
24:46
it's not good because that's when turnover tends to spike.
24:50
Because in that you don't have room to have a miss if you don't
24:55
have an environment that is safe for that, or you don't want to
24:58
carry that. That's where burn.
25:00
Pops up,
25:02
yeah, I definitely can see that, and so then I'd ask you this
25:06
because if if you can, you've done the work to see those kind
25:10
of things inside of you. So can you tell from the outside which
25:17
leader that you're working with that's carrying some of that as
25:21
well.
25:23
Sometimes you can. It depends because it depends on the
25:26
leader, and it depends on what they're carrying. It depends on
25:30
how they interact or how closely. Some leaders are more
25:34
vulnerable, open
25:37
in in groups that they're not comfortable with. I am
25:40
definitely a person. I am very open in every group that I go
25:43
in, so people would be easy would easily be able to tell
25:45
that with me. But I don't, I don't know that everybody is
25:49
like that. And I think you have some people that are like that
25:52
with people who they spend a lot of time with,
25:55
or they work on a lot of projects with. They'll know
25:57
that.
25:59
But it it really just depends, and honestly, my my observation
26:04
of that is it really kind of depends on how comfortable that
26:07
person is with themselves,
26:09
and how much permission they want to give the room, and that
26:14
really is about
26:16
how they want the room to feel when they're in it or or not.
26:19
And some people, I'm just here to get this done, and that is
26:22
what it is. And then some people, or people like me,
26:27
I believe that everywhere you go, there you are, including
26:31
work. So I'm going to create a space that is holistic, no
26:35
matter where I am. So I think it depends, and I don't think
26:37
there's a right or a wrong way to be.
26:40
I think there's just consciousness about it, so that
26:43
we understand who we're dealing. Because a lot of times, you can
26:46
you can spend time trying to be seen by somebody or by a space
26:50
that doesn't want to see you because that's not where they're
26:53
there. And the leaders can be the same thing, right? They
26:55
could, they could, you could completely have a person who is
26:59
capable of changing the entire direction of your team or
27:02
influencing teams in a certain way, you can have a group of
27:05
people that make up a team that can really turn a rudderless
27:09
ship into something that avoids the iceberg ahead. But if the
27:13
leader is not, you know, perceptively positioned to see
27:16
that, then it's it's going to be missed opportunity. Yeah, yeah,
27:23
I definitely can see that. And here's a here's a question,
27:27
right? That that somebody might be curious about.
27:31
You
27:32
being a person that has worked on yourself as a leader, leading
27:36
you know these millions upon millions dollar transformations
27:41
and implementations, right?
27:43
When you see that you've gone
27:46
too deep into a particular identity and is not being
27:51
beneficial, are there some telltale signs that help you to
27:55
recognize that from the inside of you that maybe you need to
27:59
dial that back a little, or whatever that
28:04
is, you know, how can you actually tell
28:07
that? That's a good question. It's draining.
28:11
Okay. When I am out of when I am out of position,
28:16
it's draining.
28:19
It is the and the ideas are not received as well. It's almost
28:24
like
28:26
the parable, not the not the parable of a sower, but like
28:29
it's three different grounds where you can drop the seed on.
28:31
One is hard,
28:34
and and the seeds will just go on top, and the birds will come
28:37
eat it up. And then you know it's another layer, and then
28:39
there's one where the ground's been tilled and the soil covers
28:41
and it grows.
28:44
When you're not in the right position of influence and yet
28:49
you're trying to give influence through your work or your ideas,
28:54
it's just not received,
28:57
and it becomes a friction
29:02
In the exist in in the existing relationships or interactions or
29:07
exchanges, it just becomes a friction because typically, if
29:10
somebody is trying to give out an idea, it's because they care.
29:14
When the idea is not received, it feels like rejection, and
29:20
that doesn't feel good, especially when you believe you
29:24
have something of value to give your organization, employer,
29:30
church, sorority,
29:32
you know whatever it is, right? I'm trying to give this to you,
29:35
and you don't want
29:37
it. So typically, if I've gone too deep, it creates a friction
29:43
within me because something's not being received, and that
29:45
doesn't mean that people have to accept everything that I'm
29:48
saying or accept everything I'm doing. But
29:52
that's one of the first telltale signs. And then it's like if
29:56
I'm having to do a lot of convincing, right? If I'm trying
29:59
to do a lot.
30:00
Of convincing, then that's another sign.
30:05
And at some point, very early on these days, you know,
30:10
you provide the feedback and let it land. And if it doesn't, then
30:16
that's you know that's okay, and you know just kind of move on.
30:19
But that's one of the telltale signs, right? It just creates
30:21
this friction that probably doesn't have to be there if you
30:27
if it was being received the way that perceptively you think it
30:29
could be.
30:32
So it's so
30:35
we was talking about labels, and we was we was talking about
30:38
leaders, and we definitely talked about you, and so
30:42
when label like behind
30:46
is handed to a team,
30:50
when do you start seeing
30:53
them carry it in themselves as a
30:56
team?
30:58
Depends on the team, and honestly, depends on the person.
31:01
If it depends on the person leading the team, honestly.
31:05
So if the person that's leading the team, there's usually
31:09
there's usually a leader, at least in my in my experience,
31:12
right? There's usually a leader, and how is that communicated
31:16
downward? And I actually can think of a recent experience
31:20
where this huge project that
31:25
the messaging that came down was that this has been going on for
31:30
X amount of time. There
31:36
is, and there have been people in the room, but they've not
31:39
been participating. Like all of this,
31:42
these negative perceptions that came through, and
31:48
initially when it came down, it came down in as behind identity
31:53
and panic.
31:56
Okay, it came down as panic,
31:59
and
32:01
it took a person
32:03
really making an independent assessment again of the
32:08
expectations
32:10
of the scope of work,
32:13
direct experience with the stakeholders to find out
32:19
it was actually ahead,
32:22
But
32:23
in the the the perceptive panic
32:29
that people didn't have access to the information in a
32:32
transparent way,
32:34
it really gave a nervousness and the visibility of the work gave
32:38
a nervousness to the to the potential to the owners of the
32:43
team of the work
32:44
that allowed that messaging to come down,
32:47
and so it came down because
32:51
it they the team took on that identity initially and the panic
32:55
that came with it because of how the message was delivered only
33:01
in a courageous. Honestly, it's a courageous. It's a courageous
33:05
position to take to go in under those circumstances and not
33:10
absorb the panic and not absorb the label, and then to recognize
33:15
that sometimes it's just it's a messaging thing, and and
33:21
to have the influence, to have the people who are panicking
33:26
because of the the lack of process, right? The lack of
33:29
process that didn't give the visibility into the progress.
33:33
To say, just trust me for a little bit, and let's do this
33:37
assessment, and then confirm actually
33:41
that we're ahead.
33:43
That's interesting. You brought up something that
33:47
many people
33:49
don't think about, and that's there's always levels of
33:51
management. There's always levels of leadership that exist,
33:55
and that that that team leader, whatever you want to call them,
33:59
manager, supervisor, executive director, whatever that is,
34:03
right?
34:05
When they
34:07
believe something, or when they think something, or their
34:11
perception really could shape what the team is thinking. I
34:16
want you to just take me back to when that perception,
34:22
you see that perception impacting the team, and the team
34:24
is taking that on. My question for you is, what does it cost
34:30
when that team actually starts believing that?
34:35
Um,
34:39
that's a good question too.
34:44
It costs.
34:46
It's opportunity cost. It is.
34:54
There's a social.
34:57
There's a social component.
35:00
That it costs.
35:02
There's a psychological safety
35:06
that can get depleted
35:09
depending on how that perception is managed. Yeah, yeah.
35:15
I have observed in some instances, again, huge
35:20
Meaningful projects
35:24
where
35:28
the leader
35:30
just sometimes became inappropriate on the calls, and
35:35
you know people
35:36
ended up taking leaves of absences
35:40
because they just couldn't handle the pressure.
35:43
It is, you know,
35:45
and you know, pressure does one of two things potentially,
35:48
right? It bursts pipes or makes diamonds.
35:56
Without being, without a leader understanding who's in their
36:01
org, or having been intentional about developing their org?
36:05
Because I believe you can develop. I've worked. I've
36:08
worked in organizations where the development from top to
36:11
bottom was intentional about about the endurance
36:17
to absorb the kind of pressure that can come with high
36:21
visibility, large scale engagements,
36:25
where those people will respond in a positive way to the
36:29
pressure,
36:30
but the way that that that was offset was through rewards. So
36:35
people understood what was in what was on the other side of
36:37
them in a positive way. They have visibility
36:41
into what their future payoffs would be, so it became worth it
36:45
to them to kind of figure out how to endure that. And I think
36:49
the other side of that sometimes is that
36:53
I I see a lot where organizations they want those
36:58
kinds of results,
37:01
but they haven't cultivated that kind of culture in order to do
37:05
it, and I've seen a lot of. I've experienced a lot of. I've
37:09
experienced a lot of good things too. But I've experienced a lot
37:11
of things where
37:13
it's it's it's
37:15
it's leadership by verbalization. If I say it, that
37:18
means you can do
37:21
it. I haven't assessed the infrastructure. I haven't. I
37:23
haven't assessed. You know the.
37:27
I haven't assessed. You know if the tools are there, if the
37:31
processes are there. It's just I said to do it. Now you should be
37:35
able to do it. Yeah. And sometimes it's like
37:38
that's that's going to be painful.
37:42
Yeah, no, you you you bring up something.
37:45
What that leader thinks and says,
37:48
yeah.
37:50
And so,
37:52
and and them thinking that work can just happen because they
37:56
deem it that way, I think that's an important nugget there.
38:00
I'm curious
38:03
about the difference
38:06
of when
38:07
a leader, at whatever level, right,
38:12
says that a team is behind on a project
38:19
versus when they say
38:22
a team who's always behind,
38:27
those are two different perspectives,
38:30
and I'm curious about the difference between
38:38
them. If is it the same leader?
38:41
Let's say it's the same leader.
38:43
If the feedback is consistent and the T, it may be valid.
38:47
Yeah. And then the question becomes to assess why.
38:52
Yeah. And and in that in in those moments where
38:59
the perception doesn't match the reality. So let's say that one
39:02
example that I gave you earlier, where the
39:05
perception was that it was behind, but then you go in and
39:07
you do some assessments. Like actually, right?
39:12
You will see the results. You will be able to prove out what
39:16
is or isn't happening. So in the instance where there's a
39:20
perception that a team is always behind.
39:25
It's probably true,
39:28
but then the question becomes that from from my perspective,
39:31
then that's not about the team. That's about the leader
39:36
of that team,
39:37
because then why are they always behind? Are they always behind
39:43
on the same type of deliverable? Yeah. Um,
39:48
and what feedback are they giving? Yeah. And what feedback?
39:52
And I think it's important to get feedback from the people who
39:55
are actually doing the work.
39:57
Yeah. Yeah. And not necessarily the people who.
40:00
Are leading the work getting done because it's just
40:02
completely different vantage points, and what are those
40:05
people telling you that they need? What do they not
40:08
understand
40:10
for them to always be behind?
40:13
Would be my question. So that's the difference, and especially
40:17
if it's if that sentiment is echoed across the organization,
40:20
then it's likely valid, but then again, that's for that's a
40:24
leadership issue. That's not a team issue, because either that
40:28
team doesn't have what they need, or maybe that's you know
40:32
that's not the right team. Maybe you have a mix, like, but that's
40:35
a leadership issue at that point. If a team is always
40:37
behind,
40:40
yeah, and and then when you do that investigation and you you
40:43
find out why whatever that reason is, then you go and you
40:48
approach and try to figure out how to maybe solve those
40:51
problems in some reasonable way. And again, it it could be the
40:55
team, it may not be the team, it could be the leader. But what I
40:59
hear from you definitely
41:01
is, it is worth an investigation.
41:04
Oh no, it's absolutely worth an investigation because you know
41:10
nobody's at work, so that that just goes down to basic ROI. If
41:15
that team is always behind and is impacting at work, period.
41:19
So if their if their productivity is delayed, and
41:23
it's it's consistently, and especially if it's consistent
41:25
across the org, then there is an impact, and there is something
41:27
that is worth investigating.
41:30
Now, as a person who's done some of those investigations, getting
41:33
some of that feedback, or living through teams who are always
41:37
behind,
41:40
sometimes you find that
41:45
the work's not ready to absorb it, absorb the feedback. Yeah.
41:50
So then you just have to sit on it until it's time to give it to
41:53
them,
41:55
or until they're ready, or to be able to assess it. But
41:59
then you use that information to guide how you interact with that
42:02
particular team. It's always my experience that, like, when
42:05
teams when teams are consistently behind,
42:12
there's always there's always a couple of people though who know
42:14
how to kind of go in and get things done for you, which is
42:17
why I said spend time navigating orgs because then you can go
42:20
through and kind of cut through some of that noise and at least
42:23
figure out how to get what you need. And sometimes people are
42:25
frustrated with that. That's one of my tactics. They're like, no,
42:27
but it's not just about you and what you need. I'm like, yeah,
42:29
well, for my project, it
42:31
is.
42:32
Yeah, you know how to go get things done. That's a little bit
42:35
different, right? Just a little bit. And so I'm curious, right?
42:39
That team that is labeled as behind, whether it's valid or
42:45
not. You mentioned people who
42:49
get stuff done for sure, but
42:53
what
42:55
are the people on a lagging team actually waiting for permission
43:00
to
43:12
do. I don't know.
43:15
Yeah, I'm curious about it because it's one of those things
43:17
when you start to get labeled behind.
43:20
At times, you see changes in the work.
43:24
You see changes in different things, and so I'm just curious
43:26
as to what what are they what are they waiting for, right?
43:31
Sometimes people just want direction.
43:36
Yeah, they want they want to feel like they have explicit
43:41
steps that they need to take
43:45
in order to
43:47
do their work.
43:49
Yeah.
43:52
So
43:54
sometimes it's that. I mean, I think it really can just change
43:58
from team to team.
44:01
I am trying to think of.
44:05
Sometimes they're waiting for permission to innovate.
44:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes they feel constrained from trying
44:13
things.
44:15
Sometimes they're they're waiting for permission to get
44:19
resources.
44:22
Human or technical
44:26
or
44:27
other type of like
44:29
capital that you could use to to grow.
44:33
Yeah,
44:34
I had an interesting observation recently where a team was told,
44:40
"Just go innovate. Just go do it. You let me deal with all
44:43
that other stuff, and you just go,
44:45
you just go tinker. Yeah,
44:48
and that's a safe space to
44:53
mess around without risk, without the downfalls of finding
44:56
out because.
45:00
Those teams probably felt constrained,
45:03
right? When you take the perceptive constraints off and
45:07
give people room to play, like room to play,
45:12
without judging the outcomes of how they played or how they
45:16
failed or you know if they failed or whatever it is, but
45:20
just room to play and permission to play. Yeah. Um.
45:24
People do some magical things. You can do some magical things
45:27
when you don't feel constrained.
45:29
Yeah, that's amazing. So then the the question is, once that's
45:32
granted to them, they're granted permission to innovate. They're
45:35
granted to do whatever it is, right? What are some of the
45:40
changes that you see happen with a team that's truly granted the
45:45
permission to move forward.
45:49
Process changes, product releases, product enhancements,
45:53
productivity going up, open sharing, more open
45:57
communication, more relatability,
46:02
people feeling like they can breathe, they can breathe and
46:05
just be and not. Sometimes people are bracing for the next
46:09
note,
46:11
which constrains your ability to cry out. Then I'm just going to
46:15
show up and do what I'm paid to do. Or like one of my jokes is,
46:18
my deposit comes every two Fridays. That I don't have to
46:21
battle you.
46:23
I just get my paycheck. But if I'm feeling like if I'm feeling
46:28
incentivized or protected
46:32
to play and to explore, and it's going to be received, then I'm
46:34
going to do that more. It's more rewarding. It's it's reciprocity
46:38
that people look for
46:40
in in in work relationships, sometimes. So then, what what
46:44
does it's like?
46:46
What does a leader do that actually keeps people waiting
46:50
without actually meaning to do that?
46:54
Think about themselves first.
46:59
Think about how an outcome is going to reflect on them
47:02
first,
47:05
and then ends up with
47:08
a lot of bureaucracy, checkpoints, control,
47:13
trying to control the outcomes,
47:16
so that people start trying to learn how that leader thinks,
47:20
so that they don't get to know or the rejection,
47:23
instead of going to create.
47:29
Yeah, and you see that happen more and more often than you
47:33
want to see it happen, right? And so here's the deal: we've
47:37
been talking about permission,
47:39
and I'm curious, and I gotta ask you because you would know this
47:43
better than anybody else, right?
47:46
Where did the
47:48
name Permission Slip come from?
47:53
Oh,
47:55
that switched things up for you. You did.
48:00
The
48:02
Permission Slip was a natural derivation of encouraging people
48:07
to take the labels off of them from other people's
48:10
expectations,
48:12
and telling somebody to take their labels off. It's like the
48:17
dictatorial leadership, like we did before. Take those labels
48:19
off. You don't have to believe that,
48:23
but real leaders they show the way too,
48:28
and so The Permission Slip was born out of wanting to show
48:32
people what it looks like when you actually take permissions
48:37
off. Take when you when you actually take labels off. So
48:40
what does it look like to let go of the label overachiever?
48:48
Well, it looks like me saying it's ego-driven. It looks like
48:51
me saying out loud that my
48:56
addiction to working was a coping mechanism. It was
49:00
vulnerability in me saying I was an overachiever because I was
49:06
coping with things that I did not want to emotionally face,
49:09
and it fed my ego and it fed my need to control things because I
49:14
could control the outcomes of work. Yeah, I couldn't control
49:19
anything else, and even then, that was an illusion because I
49:23
couldn't control the outcomes of work because you can't control
49:25
people, but it felt like I could. So that's why I have all
49:28
this gray hair. It's beautiful, but girl. Well, I understand. I
49:33
like your gray hair. It's very
49:35
nice. So then here's a here's a really good question because you
49:38
you said it. So I'm going to repeat it back to you into a
49:42
question: Why is
49:46
taking the labels off at home the same muscle as taking them
49:53
off?
49:55
You have to see yourself.
49:57
Okay. You have to see yourself.
50:00
You have to,
50:02
you have to be okay
50:05
with pulling back the parts that don't present as well,
50:11
and
50:12
that is embracing the fullness of yourself beyond statements
50:17
like we say flaws and all,
50:20
and where you turn that into empowerment in a workspace
50:26
is you then you create the safety space for yourself to
50:32
be vulnerable in rooms because you've accepted
50:37
that you're not going to be perfect, and so that doesn't
50:40
mean you walk into a meeting and start telling everybody about
50:45
yourself,
50:46
but it does mean that you may walk into a meeting and make
50:51
statements that are less declarative and more curious.
50:56
And declarative statements are more likely to receive a
51:00
challenge from somebody in the room.
51:04
A curious statement means it's open to interpretation, open for
51:08
discussion, and encourages an exchange of ideas. Where a
51:13
declarative state, a declarative statement, and for some invites
51:18
almost a challenge to the idea.
51:21
So being comfortable
51:25
at home, everywhere you go, there you are. Being comfortable
51:28
with the
51:30
with the flaws and the things that you want to work on in
51:32
yourself personally, it it takes some intention to not show up at
51:36
work and just do that. But it lends itself to being more
51:40
comfortable that you don't actually know it all, and that's
51:43
okay. Like you're not supposed to.
51:47
So then,
51:49
what did that look like for you the first time it worked?
51:56
I don't.
51:58
I don't remember the first time it worked.
52:00
I remember though. I will tell you this: I've had more success
52:04
at maintaining
52:07
at maintaining peace. When you are
52:11
my experience
52:14
of hanging on to that overachiever, it it almost made
52:18
me feel like I needed to do that in every area of my life,
52:24
and because otherwise there was going to be some sort of chink
52:27
in the chain that I did not want to accept, which gave people
52:33
sometimes a difficult experience of me.
52:37
And then because I knew myself, and I knew that I was not trying
52:42
to cause harm to people. I was always confused at like why were
52:48
people receiving me
52:50
this way, like everywhere that I went.
52:54
Well, everywhere that I went, if everybody's receiving me that
52:57
way,
52:58
then it's probably not everywhere that I'm going
53:00
because I'm the common denominator,
53:03
and so
53:05
accepting that gave me a lot of peace because then I got to
53:08
start saying, and it took some years, some of the relationships
53:12
for them to know,
53:15
and some people are still getting to know it. I'm eight,
53:18
nine years in, eight or nine years in at this point, and some
53:22
people are still just learning how to trust that that version
53:26
of Nicole that shows up, and it's like, yeah, I don't know,
53:30
and I don't have to know.
53:32
And sometimes people have they got so used to me showing up
53:35
knowing that they became dependent on me knowing, and
53:37
then I give the responsibility right back to
53:41
them. That's that enabling things. I was enabling
53:43
personally. I was enabling at work. I was not being valued at
53:47
work. I wasn't being valued personally. Like from my
53:49
perception, in not all instances, right? But everywhere
53:52
you go, there you are.
53:55
So then, this is a two-part question. So actually, the first
53:58
part first, and I have an idea of the exact answer, but I have
54:02
to ask you, so I'm not making any assumption.
54:05
Which of those labels was the hardest for you to let go of?
54:11
I'm gonna tell you the label that I'm never gonna let go of,
54:14
and you say it all the time.
54:17
I'm never gonna be able to let go of the label of the good
54:19
girl.
54:21
Okay, all right. See, and that's the reason why I have to ask the
54:23
question because we only talked about a few, right? So then,
54:28
why?
54:31
Um,
54:35
people pleasing is it was natured and nurtured into me,
54:42
and so I always wanted to be the good girl. I didn't want to
54:45
cause problems.
54:48
I know we we talked about overachievement and all that
54:50
stuff, but the one that's at the root of all of that is a good
54:52
girl because I don't want to cause problems for people. I
54:55
didn't want my mom to be mad. I liked getting the claps, and you
54:59
know.
55:00
I liked getting all of that stuff.
55:02
It always came with rewards as a kid that I valued.
55:07
And if you think about how the messaging is reinforced as we
55:15
matriculate through life in the U.S., right? You go to school.
55:18
What happens when you're a good girl, a good boy? You get A's,
55:23
right? If you go to
55:27
trying to be good enough at church, trying to be, you know,
55:30
you just you start chasing other people's validations, and I
55:33
think that's ingrained in you, and I think
55:37
it's just ingrained in in the part of who I am, and I actually
55:41
appreciate it too. So I don't actually want it to go. I want
55:44
to make people happy.
55:47
My problem was I wanted to make everybody
55:51
happy. I'll make everybody happy, and I can't make me
55:54
happy, and you can't make anybody happy. And so that that
55:57
lends itself to his to his
55:59
own
56:01
set of things. You probably thought I was gonna say
56:03
overachiever, didn't you? Did I did I was I was on it. I was
56:06
like overachiever. I was gonna ask questions straight about
56:08
overachiever, and then you just throw me the thing out left
56:12
field. So I get it. I was wrong, but I didn't make the
56:15
assumption. I want everybody to know that. No, no, but I know.
56:18
But you, I know why you were saying that too because of
56:22
how much I work
56:25
and how much I always try to
56:28
take on,
56:30
or like I get a little bit of space in my life, and it's like
56:32
here comes something else. The
56:36
chase is different now. Yeah, she she overachieves so much
56:40
that she under she under achieves on me. I'm joking. I'm
56:43
not
56:44
overachieves me too, right? So
56:47
I'm gonna say, look, and my chase is different, husband.
56:51
Thanks to thanks to my husband, my chase gets to be different.
56:54
So it's it's all kind of ways that you can that you can go
56:56
into that into why some people kind of do what they do. But
56:59
having the right people around you is a part of the equation
57:02
that makes that makes your ability to relax and do work
57:06
easier sometimes.
57:08
So then I'll I'll ask you,
57:11
you know, I've been blessed to be a part of your journey for
57:14
you writing your book,
57:17
and I'm curious about something. Okay,
57:20
how do you actually help
57:23
other people take off their labels
57:26
without making it about you?
57:32
Telling the story
57:35
is is is telling the story. Even if you if you were you get the
57:38
book, um, it's right here behind me. It's not my issue. There,
57:41
you're right there. Take their labels off.
57:44
I talk from a space like I did before. I tell on myself, but I
57:48
tell on myself in a way that gives people permission to like
57:53
observe themselves in the same way.
57:56
And so that's how the book is written. It is a series of
58:00
reflection over phases in my life.
58:04
At the end of each chapter, and it's an easy read, and that was
58:07
done purposefully too.
58:09
And at the end of each chapter, it's a reflection, and then it's
58:13
reflection questions: Have you experienced this same thing, or
58:18
is there a time when somebody made you feel these are
58:22
emotions. The thing is, there's nothing new under the sun, so
58:25
these are feelings that are very common. They're common to
58:29
people, but sometimes it's hard for us to see that in ourselves.
58:35
Like we don't we we want to be the strong one, or we
58:39
were labeled as the fixer.
58:42
One of my sons, he's a peacemaker, right? So when he
58:45
feels like there's going to be a family disagreement, he's like,
58:48
he he's tensing up, and then he's going to try to figure out
58:51
how to solve all the problems.
58:55
And so
58:57
it's being able to say that to them, and then let let it be
58:59
with them without it being about me. And I can tell you about my
59:02
journey. I can tell on myself and give you permission. And a
59:04
lot of times, which is why we have The Permission Slip
59:07
podcast. It is a very transparent conversation of
59:10
people saying, "Yeah, me too." Yeah.
59:15
So then I'm curious, what's one thing that someone that's
59:18
watching this video or that's listening can give themselves
59:22
permission to stop carrying this week.
59:28
They can give themselves permission to stop carrying
59:34
other people's expectations.
59:40
You can.
59:43
Simple example, and I'm going to demonstrate what you just talked
59:46
about.
59:48
Simple example.
59:51
I had gotten people around me so used to depending on me for
59:56
being the expert and the answer and all of that
59:59
that my.
1:00:00
Mom would call me and ask me for bank hours.
1:00:06
She couldn't call the bank. She used to call me.
1:00:09
That was the expectation that I set, though, right? Based on you
1:00:13
know some of the things how we were nurtured,
1:00:16
you can simply just redirect people. You don't have to answer
1:00:21
every time people call,
1:00:24
and initially, when you're doing that and resetting those
1:00:28
boundaries, it is going to be uncomfortable because it it can
1:00:33
feel like you're breaking a promise or you're letting
1:00:38
someone down. But on the other side of never letting everyone
1:00:43
else outside of you down, what I found was that I was letting
1:00:47
myself down because I wasn't paying attention to myself. So I
1:00:50
was picking up every call, I was doing every Google search that
1:00:53
people could do for themselves. I was
1:00:56
moving across the country
1:00:58
trying to take care of people that it's not that they weren't
1:01:02
mine to take care of, but that I have to do that to to help. No,
1:01:06
yeah. So you, one thing that people can
1:01:10
put down this week
1:01:12
is
1:01:14
other people's expectations, and and it's okay. And and make and
1:01:18
start small. Yeah, start with a small. No,
1:01:22
and in the spirit of using that same muscle,
1:01:26
how would taking some of those labels off look for a team that
1:01:33
does that same thing in the moment? Take some labels off,
1:01:37
especially that behind label off. How will things? How do you
1:01:41
think things will look for them if they're able to do some of
1:01:43
that?
1:01:46
I'm going to give a practical
1:01:49
piece of advice there. I'm going to give a practical perspective,
1:01:51
and it would be to take the risk to acknowledge what's happening
1:01:57
first.
1:02:00
Sometimes
1:02:03
we teams, people,
1:02:06
teams are just made up of people. Yeah. Even reject the
1:02:10
notion that a label fits. Yeah.
1:02:15
Embrace
1:02:17
it. Embrace the perspective.
1:02:20
It reduces
1:02:25
the the automatic defensiveness,
1:02:28
the the need to either feel like you need to defend
1:02:33
or prove through overvalidation at the expense of team morale,
1:02:39
or team psychology, or team psychological safety,
1:02:43
so that is a risk to take
1:02:47
in team vulnerability, especially if it's an
1:02:50
environment where it's not safe to be behind. Because for some
1:02:54
teams, it's you know you can overcommit,
1:02:58
and it's acknowledged that you may have overcommitted, so then
1:03:02
you just adjust from cycle to cycle.
1:03:06
So
1:03:08
acknowledge that
1:03:11
the the the truth could even exist that that they could be
1:03:13
behind first,
1:03:16
and then fairly assess: is this accurate?
1:03:20
If
1:03:22
it is, why? If it's not, why not? If it is,
1:03:28
what do you need to fix it? And be ready to articulate what you
1:03:34
need.
1:03:36
And if it's not, if you're not really behind, then what's the
1:03:41
message, and who needs to hear it? Many times, it's it's just a
1:03:46
leader a couple levels up
1:03:48
that maybe feels like they have something on the line from the
1:03:52
perspective of the team. So, how do you get that leader? Matter
1:03:55
of fact, I could share transparent. I could share a
1:03:57
transparent story with this. Actually, got some feedback
1:04:01
from a leader recently, that they weren't feeling comfortable
1:04:05
with where things were. Yeah, they were absolutely right to
1:04:09
feel that way,
1:04:11
because I hadn't given them the tools that they needed
1:04:16
to have the visibility into progress,
1:04:19
and and you know, in the back of your mind, like I kind of knew,
1:04:23
right?
1:04:25
And so I took accountability for it, and I said, "Okay,
1:04:28
this is how I'm going to fix it." But it turns out that I
1:04:31
needed something from my leadership team, so I got off
1:04:35
that one call, and I called my leader, and I said, "Hey, I got
1:04:39
this feedback, and I think this person's right, and here's what
1:04:43
I need, and so now we're gonna fix it. And so,
1:04:48
you know,
1:04:49
she gotta embrace it first. Put it down.
1:04:52
I I absolutely love that, and I have one final question for you.
1:04:59
Okay.
1:05:00
And that question
1:05:03
is, what would you tell a leader whose team is behind right now,
1:05:09
and they know
1:05:14
it? What would I tell a leader?
1:05:17
The leader knows, and the team knows that they're behind.
1:05:24
Understand. Have an honest conversation about why,
1:05:29
and what does it cost? What is it costing for your team to
1:05:34
always be behind?
1:05:36
What is it costing in terms of real dollars? What is it costing
1:05:41
in
1:05:42
org morale? What is it costing in team
1:05:48
morale? And what do you need? Like, what do you really need
1:05:53
to? That's tangible. That's measurable.
1:05:57
That
1:05:59
you can see progress from week to week. If you dedicate a
1:06:02
resource or create a certain space, but typically if they're
1:06:06
really behind, they probably it's a resourcing.
1:06:09
What do you need? What do they need to fix that?
1:06:14
And then can you do that? Because if you can't do that,
1:06:19
then do you have to adjust expectations?
1:06:23
Because then somebody has a need somewhere that's not being met,
1:06:25
or the expectation needs to be adjusted. So, but it starts with
1:06:30
acknowledging first that that's what it
1:06:34
is. And a lot of times, as leaders, especially depending on
1:06:36
the level you're walking in, you do not want to be the one to
1:06:39
walk into that room and say, "Yep, we are."
1:06:43
You do not want to be the one to carry that message,
1:06:47
and so I think that's where a lot of that can kind of come
1:06:49
from. And then that's when people start being asked to do
1:06:52
more with less, and all those things. And it takes a really
1:06:55
courageous person to say,
1:06:57
"Wait a minute, like, is this
1:07:01
is this realistic? Is this possible? What is true capacity?
1:07:08
What is what expectation are we setting for these people? And is
1:07:12
that realistic based on what it is we need to do?
1:07:16
Well, I must say to you, this has been an amazing
1:07:18
conversation. I have enjoyed every single aspect of it. I
1:07:23
know the listeners are going to get a lot, a ton of value out of
1:07:27
this conversation. So I'm going to ask you this, right? Where
1:07:31
should people find you, and tell us what's coming up for you?
1:07:37
Okay, so
1:07:39
you guys can find me on every major platform at LabelsBegone.
1:07:47
You can also find us@labelsbegone.com.
1:07:52
You can listen to the podcast. It's called The Permission Slip.
1:07:56
All of our episodes are archived at PermissionFromWho.com.
1:08:02
So please come in, like, subscribe. But we're also on
1:08:04
every major podcasting platform wherever you listen.
1:08:09
So for The Permission Slip from Nicole Morris, and what's coming
1:08:13
up? I'm so excited. We are actually getting ready to record
1:08:16
and release season three of the Pod. We are already in. I want
1:08:20
to say 23 countries, we're just a little over four months old,
1:08:25
and so this conversation about introspective relationships with
1:08:29
yourself, which is what the Permission Slip is meant to do,
1:08:32
it's really resonating with people. And there's a there's a
1:08:34
strong response from segments. And so I recently, literally,
1:08:37
was just looking at the audience yesterday, and we are in Russia,
1:08:41
and I'm like, holy smokes! So, like, literally 9% of the
1:08:46
Permission Slip audience is from the Eurasian continent, which is
1:08:50
like incredible.
1:08:53
So, we're getting ready to release season three of the
1:08:56
Permission Slip the week before Thanksgiving, and we're talking
1:08:59
about what it means after you've done the work or while you're
1:09:02
doing the work to go back home, and people still want to
1:09:07
interact with you based on who they knew, not who you are. And
1:09:12
so we're going to have some very specific conversations about
1:09:16
what does that feel like
1:09:18
from people who've actually gone through it and maintain their
1:09:22
sense of self even in the challenge. How did they do that?
1:09:25
So I'm really excited. We're actually going to have a
1:09:27
therapist on with us, Dr. Tiffany Bell, and she's going to
1:09:29
talk about some of the grief that comes at the holidays and
1:09:32
what happens when that that chair is empty, where you needed
1:09:36
something from that person and they're no longer there to give
1:09:39
it to you. And how do you not let that make you fall back into
1:09:41
an old pattern. So that's what's coming up for us. We got a merch
1:09:45
line launching. 2027 is going to be an amazing year for Labels Be
1:09:49
Gone and The Permission Slip crew
1:09:51
with more podcasts, more live events.
1:09:56
So I'm I'm really excited. And thank you, husband. Thank you,
1:09:58
husband, for having me.
1:10:00
And and and showing the world your wife. I'm usually behind
1:10:04
the scenes, just we we making each other go. So I appreciate
1:10:07
you. Well, you a you know what? Whether I mean you're my wife,
1:10:11
no question. But you have done the work. That's the difference,
1:10:14
right? And you've done the work. They can see from the
1:10:18
conversation
1:10:20
that I I think you're amazing, but how amazing you are, and
1:10:25
what you have to give to this world, and the things that you
1:10:28
birth for this world to actually see. So I have enjoyed this
1:10:32
conversation thoroughly.
1:10:34
One day she'll bring me on her podcast.
1:10:38
You know, even though hers is way older than mine. She'll
1:10:42
bring me on her podcast, but I'm not gonna say anything about
1:10:46
that. I'm gonna say that's the guilt trip, y'all. So he gonna
1:10:49
be on the next one when we do with the married couple, and
1:10:52
then he gonna be sorry that he uh that he put this plug out
1:10:56
here because now I'm be like, husband, come on, all the ones,
1:10:59
act the fool is what I'm gonna do. So well, that's that's what
1:11:02
you do, and I and I love it. And I'm gonna be over here just
1:11:06
looking, and they're gonna be like, "You don't pay no
1:11:07
attention to him, do you?" Like, no. Well, you know, that's
1:11:11
that's that. So we're gonna see if I ever get on. Maybe in 2020
1:11:16
28. Maybe you don't bother me. It is what it is. So I, you
1:11:20
know, we're gonna see. We're gonna count it down. If if I get
1:11:23
on her show, I'll let her come back on my show. We'll see. We
1:11:27
have a competition. See, my husband, we gonna have to go
1:11:30
with the. Okay, I got you. I got you. On that note, I'm gonna say
1:11:34
to everybody, this has been an amazing conversation. We're
1:11:37
gonna say bye to you all right now, and we will see you in the
1:11:41
next conversation. Bye, bye, everybody.
1:11:48
Thank you for joining us.
1:11:50
Where every Tuesday and Thursday,
1:11:53
we work toward bridging the gap for teams that are behind.