Latest / The Rochelle Christiane Podcast / 181. Your Healing is Found in the Present

Transcript

181. Your Healing is Found in the Present · The Rochelle Christiane Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the emotional mastery podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I am your host, rochelle.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a holistic human design health coach and this is a space for human design and spiritual journey.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It's not about being a master of your emotions, rather mastering the tools to self-inculate, to awakening yourself and remembering who you are.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Human design changed my life about five years ago and I've been learning and teaching the system ever since.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: This podcast is human design meets spirituality, meets astrology.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: You don't have to have a belief system to be here, just an open mind and curiosity.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: This is a journey of meeting yourself and awakening to your infinite potential.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Now let the magic begin.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the emotional mastery podcast.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: This conversation today with Alex Boyanju, who is a therapist with over 30 years of study and practice.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Alex is trained in EMDR, a technique used to help people process and resolve trauma successfully.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: He uses an integrative approach to therapy, with an emphasis on psychospiritual growth grounded in somatic therapies focused on the unity of body and mind.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: This conversation was incredibly powerful.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I, in editing this, I was moved nearly to tears.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I feel this so deeply, especially because of where I feel like I am in my own process currently in healing trauma, in healing relationship patterns and just really leaning into all of this that has been coming up.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: A lot of the conversation as I listen to Alex talk about our trauma and feeling tones, which we'll get into, is just very much.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I hear a lot of astrology in it because, as I'm deep in studying astroherbalism and I study psychological astrology and really looking at these patterns we have within our own charts, whether it's Saturn or Chiron and aspects of that, it's just so powerful.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Alex talks about temperament and how it's so interesting that you can have multiple children to the same parents, with the same environment, the same upbringing, the same nurturing, the same everything, but yet they have such unique and different temperaments.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: When we look at childhood trauma like little T trauma, big T trauma how certain things really are instilled in us in that conditioning phase even though he gives the example of a parent that is a little bit like to pick up a child and how the child stores that as I am unworthy or I'm abandoned or I'm in love, where that parent may have picked up that child a thousand times before, exactly on time, but that one time for some reason stores it so deeply I think a lot of this can really be reflected back to us in our charts, in how we show up when you're looking at the moon and your relationship with your mom, or the sun and your relationship with your father, but this again, this conversation was incredibly powerful.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: At one point, alex turns it on me and I felt very uncomfortable in the process of having this reflected on myself, because it's so often that I question people.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I do, obviously, my own work, but again, letting anybody in in that sort of vulnerability is a little bit scary.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: And facing those parts of myself and facing the anger and especially recently in relationships and dating, the things that I have been facing in my patterns and I've been studying Kabbalah as well a little bit and there's this concept of Takun is what they call it, and it's just correction.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: It's these things in life that we are here to correct and within relationships, I have really witnessed this pattern of being afraid of vulnerability in the sense of not necessarily.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say I don't let people in because I do feel like I'm very open and honest, but there is a part where I do notice that I do test people and it's like trying to see if they're going to stay or I find myself unsatisfied with expectations that I set, I guess, where I get 80% of what I'm looking for.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: But then I'll pick at these other little things and I do think it comes down to this fear of vulnerability and this fear of being unsafe and this fear of being seen.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Alex talks about that.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: We want so badly to be seen and yet, through conditioning and all these other things, we are actually so incredibly afraid of being seen.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: What will it mean if I say something to say, if I admit that I like somebody or whatever it is?
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: We have these fears and I can feel it even as I'm speaking, because I've been cycling through this pattern with a specific person and the person is very safe.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I actually feel like I receive a lot.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I get so many of my needs met, but there's this one piece that I keep sort of picking at and then I have to ask myself is that actually important to me?
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Or do I feel unsafe?
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: And feeling safe if that makes sense, because it's almost like this push-pull and I know that I create chaos within my own mind, because there's a part of me that feels that I am only worthy of being loved if there is friction, if I get somebody mad at me, if whatever right.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Based on the cycles that I've looped through in past relationships.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: It feels very confusing and at the same time, I've done so much work around this that I understand what's happening.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: It's a matter of regulating my nervous system, because I can get very chaotic within my own system, so sort of taking myself out of that and viewing it and constantly having these tools to make myself feel safe.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: So at the end of the night if I'm feeling frustrated or there have been a few times where I'm like I am done I'm just going to throw in the towel.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: You know whatever, you know whatever.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: And I have to regulate my nervous system constantly to feel safe.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: And it's just a really interesting phase.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: And I feel like it's always the same theme that comes up over and over and over in relationships.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm choosing to continue to show up because I know that I am safe and because it is a theme that continues to show up.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: And if I don't fully face it in a situation where I do feel safe and I can't express myself, and not only that, but the other person reflecting back to me also they're a reflector, so it's literally their energy is mirroring back to me in a very safe space and they're not running from conversations, they're not avoiding their.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like holding space, but I don't feel like I am being gaslit, I don't feel like things are being avoided.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, all that, because just this conversation has really editing this conversation really stirred up a lot of what I'm currently experiencing and it makes me really emotional because it's something that I'm navigating and it's challenging and it's also beautiful at the same time because I feel like I see it for what it is.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: You know, I see my pain, I see my trauma, I see my patterns and also I'm so committed to moving through this and I think, with that awareness and allowing these to process and allowing myself to, through meditation, right through hypnosis, go back and find the roots of the issues and then to have Healy as a support.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: You know, in combination with it, it's just a very interesting time the last few months and yeah, so, anyway, this conversation was really really good.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Every way that you can find Alex work with him.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: You can find him on his website.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, he is so interesting.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: We talk about his human design a little bit.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: He's very, very defined.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: He has eight centers defined.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: The only thing he has undefined is his solar plexus and having that much definition and also his big three are in water signs Pisces, sun, scorpio, moon, cancer Rising and I can feel the depth in him, I can feel the intuitiveness and the fact that he combines spiritual, psycho, spiritual psycho, spiritual therapy right, psycho somatic.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: The fact that he combines the spiritual even though he doesn't like that term and psychology, I think is is Scorpio, moon, right First of all, but is all this water and it's Pisces and it's just so beautiful in what he does and I, yeah, I just this conversation was just one of those that really impacted me and I think of it often and I'm so excited to share it with you because it is so good and he talks, there's so much that I would like it was just incredible.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: But we were talking about the energy of people and how we respond to that energy right, and he talks about how certain people we have feeling tones and so when we interact with people who hold or who hold or who trigger or who who are at the same feeling tone as, say, a parent or an ex-partner, you'll hear the example, but the example of if you pluck a string of a guitar and there's another guitar next to it with the exact same.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: It's tuned the exact same way and if you hit that one string, the other one, that frequency, that resonant frequency, they will both vibrate.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: It's the same thing If we meet somebody at a vibrational match to a parent or an ex-partner or a sibling that caused us some sort of trauma or pain or suffering, just energetically we are going to experience that with this person, even though that person may be completely safe, completely different person, but energetically they match this frequency, this vibration of what we had experienced before, and so it triggers that exact same feeling tone within us and it's just incredible.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: So I hope that you really enjoyed this episode.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I hope that you learned a lot from it.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Please reach out to Alex, reach out to me, let me know, let us know what you thought about it.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram, at rachellechristian, at r-o-c-e-l-l-ec-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n-e.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: That's Instagram.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Tiktok is the same website as rachellechristiancom.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Youtube is at Emotional Mastery Podcast and everything you need to know is down below.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: You can shoot me an email and then, if you share this episode with a friend, if it resonates, it truly helps the podcast and rate, review, subscribe all the things.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Again, spotify just click those five stars.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: It is so easy, so simple and so supportive.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, I released or put out a January transit guide Human Sign and Astrology and we are what nine, 10, 11 days into January, but it's still not too late.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be repeating this again in February because I think you guys love it.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: So it just guides you through the transit so that you can understand what's happening.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: There's journal prompts in there.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: There are New Moon journal prompts, full moon journal prompts, spaces to reflect weekly reflections.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: It is 55 pages.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: It is packed.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: It is so good.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I found tracking the transits to be so helpful, so you can click the link below and grab your copy of the January 2024 Human Sign and Astrology transit guide.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: And again, I will be repeating that next month.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So if you are listening to this in February, click that same link and it's going to bring you to February's guide, march, whatever.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Whatever, as long as I'm continuing to do them, you can grab it down there.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for listening and I will catch you on the other side.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Emotional Mastery podcast.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: This morning or today, I have Alex Boyanju.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Did I pronounce that correctly?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, Perfect.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I am a therapist with over 30 years of experience, with an emphasis on psychospiritual and somatic therapy.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I find this fascinating because I've been through therapy for years and it's just meeting the worlds colliding between the spiritual and science.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I love that space, so I usually start with having people introduce themselves.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: But I would love to know how did you get into that arena?
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Because it is really an interesting place to be, and especially for therapy.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's such a powerful and potent place to really do a lot of this work.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: So we're talking about the intersection between science and psychology or psychology and spirituality.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Even science.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, actually we're live at a time where all three are really, really intersecting.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: So let's take a look at psychology and spirituality first.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: I'm not a big fan of the words spirituality first of all, and we'll talk a little bit about why.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: I'd like to actually leave alone psychology and spirituality as two words for a moment and give a diagram, and in that diagram you'll see how it fits and actually takes all three science, spirituality and psychology all together.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: So the way I look at it is this we as human beings, from the time that we are born, we are creatures of being conditioned.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Our nervous system is one of the first things to form, and the nervous system is the interface between what I call the subtle body, the energetic subtle body, and the gross outer world.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: And so that interface is what's receiving and giving information constantly, and that begins in conception, right, the conception information.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: That's what's happening with information, and because we are quantum, therefore we are energetic beings, that information is being exchanged right from the mother and the mother's surroundings as far as the energetic field can impact that fetus, which is so incredible that it's not just the mother, it is a lot of other factors.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: It's huge, right.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: So I could almost imagine like a fetus is swimming in this ocean of energetic exchange happening.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: So beautiful, right.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: So we're being impacted that way and molded and shaped.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: And what happens over time?
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: That molding and that shaping unfortunately becomes rigid, and it's in its rigidity.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: It's made to help us stay alive, and since a big portion of being alive in our DNA is to survive, right.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: And so, therefore, that whole system is there to keep you alive, get you to go hunt and to make and to build your house and take care of that kind of business and pass on your progeny.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Well, as we get older and maybe we've gotten through just surviving we become aware to the fact that we'd like to thrive, we'd like more than just to survive.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: But in order to do that, we have to let go of the rigidity that we have developed and reactivity that we have developed.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: So when we look at, let's say, a transition, when people begin the journey, they're quite enmeshed and fused with the stories that they have learned about themselves through those early formations.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: And what has to happen is, as time goes along, if they do the good work, they're letting go of those stories, shedding them and stepping into their own wholeness, and the same wholeness that you experienced is the same wholeness that I experienced, just dressed up uniquely as a different manifestation.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Right, a yellow rose, a pink rose, a white rose.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: There are roses, just different color manifestations, but the essence there roses.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Every single human being is a different color rose, right so?
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: But we forget that.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: We forget that so often when we hear people talking about psychology and spirituality from a Western perspective, people assume that in the West, psychology was made to deal with all of that initial structuring of how it happens, the densification and the moving around of the furniture to feel better.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: In the East, the Eastern psychology, spirituality, is about actually transforming that, letting that go.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: There is not even any furniture, there is no room, there is not even the identity that we learned.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: We are right.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: So, but if you remove the words East with psychology and spirituality and you simply imagined it, imagine I'm wearing a very dense, thick, wet, straight jacket, really tightened up intensely.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Well, my hope is that I can dry it up, start to open it up, release it and take it off.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: That's the whole journey.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: People call it spirituality because the person has worked through, I think, a lot of the initial psychology.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: So they're a little bit misnomers, but I'm just.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: I want to make sure that people understand the process.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: The process is just a continuation of letting go.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Hope that makes sense.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's so interesting and I especially I feel like since I've become a mother I've done a lot more of that, like digging into my children and how they've been conditioned, like you mentioned, that conditioning that happens from that like zero about seven, if I'm correct right about that age frame.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: And, like my daughter's, pregnancy was easy and I actually got most of my trauma while I was pregnant with my son.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So I know, like you said, that child is swimming in the energy and the quantum, all those things like of the mother, and so I see, even with him as he's growing up, and the anger and the fear and things like that, that sort of come up around that.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: So it's just such an interesting like.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: It's so vast too right, it's just so big that I think sometimes it's so hard to even wrap your mind around how you can even overcome your own conditioning, because it happened at such a time where you weren't even aware that it's happening, you know.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: You don't become aware of that until much later on.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: You know, most people in their twenties are practicing the conditioning and I would say that it's by the time we hit around 25 to 30 that we start to kind of like, turn back on ourselves and say wait, I'm getting a little bit tired of the conditioning and I'm not liking the way my relationships are going.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: I don't like the way I feel at work, I don't like the way I'm relating to people, I don't like the fact that I'm depressed or anxious, and it does.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: It does a you know, kind of an exploration of wanting it to be different.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: So I often say, like you know, 28 is that age where I see a lot of people being like okay, look, I know that I'm part of the problem here.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: It's not like mom, dad, the world, everybody else and all my bosses right, like maybe I bring something to the table, do this, yeah.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: So you know, the other piece that people you know have a really hard time wrapping their minds around is the following karma slash, what I call temperament, right, and nobody can tell us how that actually is formed.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Like, for example, temperament.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: You can have three children with three different temperaments.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Same mother, same father, yes, maybe different age, it may be something different.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: But temperament is so fascinating because, you know, I've always asked my mom hey, how was I as a child Like, tell me about me?
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: And she goes temperamentally, you're the same Now as you were then.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: You know, it's so interesting to.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Temperament plays a huge role in all of this and temperament is hard, hard, hardwired.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: It's very difficult to change.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: You can work on it, but it's pretty deep in there.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, some people are just shy and they're shy their whole lives.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Some people are just really bold and they've been bold their whole lives.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Nothing.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: You can't say that this event happened to them, then this happened to them.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: It's, there's some temperament.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: And then there are, of course, you know, variations on the theme where somebody was a little bit more introverted but then, you know, broke out of that.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: But that means they weren't severely introverted, they were probably introverted already, leaning on this side, right, temperament is huge within all of this.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: So when I was a child, my mom because I've asked her, you know the same things and I know like I was like very, I feel like I was very fiery and then something happened where I just shut down.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I was very shy, I was very introverted and then, like you said, exactly that 28, for me it was like 30.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I woke up at 30 and I was like this cannot be my life.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I'm so tired of showing up this way of being quiet, of not speaking?
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: all the things right, and so, like I, just like I burned everything down, I got divorced.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I like it was a whole thing and I was like, nope, starting over, and so now yeah, now I feel like I'm beginning to embody more of that like fiery energy that I probably did when I was younger and I've done a lot of work around like trying to identify what was the thing right that like had me so close into myself.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: But it's, you know, whatever it is, I feel like you know, because I didn't have like massive trauma in my childhood or anything like that.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: My parents are still together and things like that.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I think for me it was maybe more like emotional trauma where I wasn't heard or I was told to be quiet or things like that.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: But it's always so interesting.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: You know the trauma that a child perceives and is adult.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: It won't be.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: It won't necessarily be.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: People have a mistake, that it's a one, so there's.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: You know, in the field of trauma which I specialize in, is we, you know, initially, when it's taught and I changed it a little bit, watch this everybody's got this like big T kind of thing right where it's like.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: You know, the sexual abuse, the violence, the militation, the alcoholic family, you know, like, those are the ones where you get these obvious traumas right.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: And then you can have one where you know the mother comes late to pick up the child from school by 15 minutes and that child interprets it unconsciously as I'm not worthy.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: That happens Well, like, where, like what happened?
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Right, and the mother picked up the child a thousand times before on time, and then you go wait a second.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: So you see, it's finicky.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: You know, those subtle interpretations are so finicky and no one in the universe is gonna be able to say what does what, does what?
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: The combinations of that forget about it.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: And so the Buddha I'm a Buddhist and the Buddha for me would make it very simple there is no escape from samsara, the wheel of dissatisfaction.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: There is no escape, no matter, no matter, even if we were gonna say, well, that child got upset at that mother for that reason, okay, but so what then?
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: What?
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: At some point we have to stop looking backwards.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Everybody wants to do therapy and just get stuck looking backwards.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Looking backwards should take no more than a couple of sessions with a good therapist.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Hop on and if it's more trauma, a little bit more, and then you do some EMDR and then you start looking in the present and future.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Otherwise, what do we do?
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Just keep saying what happened, what happened, how it happened.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Drive everybody crazy.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree, I did.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I would like to talk a little bit about EMDR.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: So I did that for about a year, I would say, and I had one specific traumatic event that we did EMDR around and I, in hindsight, I think it did make me feel more safe in my body and to be able to operate from that way.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: But, like you're talking about, that's all these little micro events that maybe we don't realize were traumatic or attached to it, because I did it for like a year and I felt like that one event may be lessened, but the bigger issues that I was going to therapy for I didn't really feel like those were actually changing and so, like you said, I don't know it was because we were always looking into that, but how do you know that?
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: So we're gonna do it right now.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: How do you know that they weren't changing?
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Because I think I still felt very stuck and trapped, like in my own system, like I couldn't push through it.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: So therefore, we're gonna demonstrate this right now for everybody.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: So the experience that you were having was feeling stuck.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: So, no matter how much in your mind you would have been trying to look for why you were stuck, you would have never been unstuck.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: It's an internal somatic letting go of actually being stuck.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, so do you still feel it in your body?
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Like right now that we're talking about it.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's just like completely flared up.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Exactly where in your body do you feel it?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: It's like right here in my chest.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, so I just want you to notice, it Shut off the mechanism of trying to figure it out first of all.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Part one.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Part two don't grasp at it or to try to push it away, neutral.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, trying to just clear my mind and be here.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: I didn't say anything about clearing anything, because there's no such thing.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Now, allow your breath to become bigger than your body, like it's going out into space.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Spacious breath.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: Let the breath become infinite and allow that sense of stuckness to pour into that open spaciousness.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: It doesn't belong to you.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: What do you feel?
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: What do you notice?
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: There's a part, I think, of my mind that's like I don't know how to do this, but then there's a part of me that's just like I'm trying to visualize, just like letting that feeling be, be, yeah.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: So what happens with these feeling tones that you're talking about?
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Everybody who I work with, every human being has these what we call stuck feeling tones.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Right, it doesn't matter.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: You don't need to know the specifics of when, how.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: It's a feeling tone.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: The stuckness is actually the feeling tone.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Actually, not a stuckness, it's your beingness telling you to pay attention back to your beingness.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: So it's a phone call from beingness saying hey, you're not paying attention to me, so I'm going to create some tension in your body.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: So you start to pay attention to me.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: So what are you not paying attention to?
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: Hmm, yeah.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: You don't have to answer that, but I'm just saying when we don't pay attention to our authentic, true nature, we're going to keep having somatic experiences.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Those somatic experiences are our information.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Too many therapists want to be like, yeah, let's get rid of it.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: No, that means you're getting rid of the telephone wire calling you back.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: What holds those somatic tensions are the negative IAMs that we learned under those duress, stress, trauma moments.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: If we keep repeating those negative IAMs, that stress is going to say, because those negative IAMs want us to walk away from who we are to protect us.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: Now we're 30, 40, 50 years old, going no, no, no, I still can't be myself, then that negative IAM, let's keep being this negative IAM because I'm not safe enough to be myself.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: As we're moving through this.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking about specific, maybe people or situations where that tends to come up In my own practice.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I just try and witness what exactly is triggering in me, trying to identify the story.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's going to the past, like you were talking about, just so I can understand and then I can find a way to move past that.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: It's interesting especially when it comes to relationships, because a lot of my trauma comes from that, where it's like certain people trigger that so much it's my body being like just the energy of this person is not for you.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: That's what I always try and trace it back to.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: How can we notice these things coming up in our system and actually discern the message that it's telling us?
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Because it is so easy for a mind to be like well, this is why, and this is why it tells us these stories, like you said, from our past as a conscious, as opposed to just allowing it and then actually being able to move through it.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: If we walked throughout our lives, we can see that we don't have those responses to everybody.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: So whoever there is a response with, not to, I want to be very, very careful with.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: So, for example, when I was in my first job growing up, I was 23.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: I worked at a high school and I won't mention the name of the person, this particular principal at the time every time I was near her I would have the same internal feeling as I did when I was my father.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: I already knew I've done enough work at that point to know that she is this particular kind of energetic right that inside of me I thought like I couldn't be myself around.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: So that information was telling me that I didn't feel safe to be myself with her.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: So the truth is this of course I'm safe because I'm an adult now, and so then I knew that I'm going to be myself because that's what I need to do in my adult life.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: I'm not, then I'm shape-shifting, I'm not being authentic, I'm cow-towing to her.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Then it creates weird relationship.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: So I was quite blunt with her, quite upfront and trying to be as authentic as I can.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: So when we notice where we have those we first will probably have this notion that it is a familiar feeling tone with familiar people, and I don't mean it could be anybody at the grocery store.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: So that's what's?
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: It's just a telltale sign.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: It's almost like I don't know enough about music, but I guess it's like when two notes match up to each other somehow, whatever their music, that's called horrible music.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: But it's like that.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: It's like that, right, somebody's going to have to tell me what that's word for in music.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: It's like those examples you see, of somebody yeah, plucks one thing and then the other one.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: The frequency is like the same.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: The frequencies, yeah, exactly, Exactly.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: It's like the two frequencies match up to each other, and so that means you know there's a trigger going on, and the interpretation of that trigger is the belief that I cannot be myself here, that's really important.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so then, what are the steps to actually begin to like you said?
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: How were you able to then be like, okay, I have to be authentic, I have to be myself in this situation?
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: It's just like doing it anyway, because I guess that feeling can be so overwhelming in the system, I guess, depending on where it's coming from and to actually be able to move forward.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Because I know somebody in my life that has been in my life for almost four years and I still react the same way now that I did when I in the beginning, and it's always like sometimes I'm just like maybe I'm just supposed to not be around this person, Like I don't know Right, it's just interesting to.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: With this person.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: I knew I wasn't going to be friends with them, but I had to be around them because it wasn't work If this was with a friend and I would have to discern right that, even though maybe I'm feeling that way, I also have to get to know them and see are they actually meaning that?
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Is that what they're actually intending?
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: So it begins at much deeper, relational dialogue then, and it may be that I say to them hey, listen, when you speak to me and you raise your tone, that doesn't work for me.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: So it can translate into good, effective communication.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: It doesn't always mean that it's a rupture, so that's not always an indication.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: So it becomes it could become a two way street at that point and if that person is willing to learn and they're open to that, you both can use then the triggering as growth points.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: Now, if the other person is not willing to change or look at them and so forth, and they are acting in a way that just is something that just doesn't suit you, then even if you're going to be your authentic self, it's not going to work for you.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: It's actually telling you that your authentic self doesn't feel safe to be that way with the person to begin with.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and how do you begin to release the mind a little bit in those situations?
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: Like in those specific triggered moments you're talking about.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because, like you said, you're telling yourself these, like I am like stories, right, all these stories from the past, and you know.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: They're unconscious.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: They're unconscious Most of the time, you're not even.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: The feeling tone is first, and it's intense.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: So the feeling tone has the whole story wrapped up in it.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Most people are not aware what are the emotions and the words and the mind states that are associated with it, and it's just simply get the hell out of the situation.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: Either run or fight.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And then but like so where do we go from there?
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: With that feeling tone.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: We either go into fight or flight in that moment.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: It's very hard.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: It's actually really hard to process it unless we've done a lot of processing before and we know that when that feeling comes like I get that same feeling tone around in my life.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: When there's other people that are similar in tonality to my father, I still get that thing, feeling tone.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: It's just that I've been working with it my whole life.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: So I'm just like okay, so you know, I'm aware and let me see what I need to do here.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: Is it you know?
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: Is it that the person really can't see me?
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Does I don't?
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: I don't want to be, you know, like you get to evaluate that.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: So you have to really understand, you have to know how to interpret the feeling tone.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: So it's just more of like yeah, an awareness of it, and like noticing when it comes up and sort of Like allowing it.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: people need to do some psychotherapeutic work to really understand when it was formed, how it was formed, what its motivations were when it was formed, because when it was formed in our childhoods it was the feeling that we had when we weren't seen.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: That's what the body does.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: It's like it recoils intensely because I'm not being seen and I'm asked to be something other than who I am Right.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: So if I can't be myself, what happens?
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: I have to be smaller.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: So these contracted feeling tones are like big prison, prison, prison, prison, prison, prison, prison, prison.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: And if we have a lot of trauma, then we become really small and that feeling tone is loud, loud, loud, loud.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: So then we need to do good therapeutic work so we can feel like we're coming out of that and we're safe.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: We're safe For us that we're safe to ourselves like.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Safe to feel it for ourselves, forget about it with others, safe to experience the pain and the crying and the damage that was done, the anger I mean.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: I got clients who really need to learn to be angry.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: One of those, you know they.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: You know, like that was my thing too, because if I didn't learn how to be angry properly, I was going to beat the hell out of people in my life.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: You know, oh yeah, I was looking for fights.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I asked for, just like I did, a couple of sessions and the very first one we were diving into that anger piece and my whole body started shaking and I was just like I can't even.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: It scared me so much because I think that's I think for a lot of people were just not taught that it's healthy to express your anger, and within, obviously not explosive but to be able to express it.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: And you know, for me, now that I'm raising a son, I see the anger come up and I see how he hits things or pushes and throws and things like that.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And it's like I'm trying.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: It's it's so reflective for me of like I have to deal with my own so that I can show him that it's okay to express it.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: But how are we going to go about doing that?
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: And so it's been really confronting.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: And what's right behind and usually what's right behind anger.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Fear and I don't know.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: The sadness comes out to me, but I don't know if that's.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Is that correct?
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's, it's anger, fear, anger, sadness, fear.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: So if you look at that, when we're, let's say, within trauma, right, there's anger that would be in traumatized, we're scared.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: There's fear.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: There's fear.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: So we create these contractions inside so nobody can get inside and hurt us anymore.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: We have to live behind those big walls of protection.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: There's fear.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: There's fear that somebody's going to come into that space that I'm trying to create a fortress around.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: That feels like contraction in my heart, chakra.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: So the contraction in the heart chakra is always an indication of the sense of having to be small not to be seen, but wanting to be seen so desperately.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's definitely, I know, the first time I actually just said those words to somebody.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I'm really angry right now.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Nothing beyond that.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Just that in itself being able to admit it changed so much.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow, okay, I can do this.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: But I think, like you said, it's that fear for me, I think it's, and for so many it's that fear of then what is their reaction going to be to me.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's the whole dance.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: And we forget that once we get comfortable with our own emotions and we can express ourselves effectively, right, then it's not our job what anybody else does or says, then we get to decide what we want to do with them from there.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so if we're staying home within our own centeredness and express hey look, rebecca Rochelle, I'm angry, I'm upset, john, I hate you.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: I'm just making it up.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: I don't like this, I don't like this, not hate, but I don't like this and the other person doesn't acknowledge us, doesn't respect us.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: We should consider what's going on there.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: We should consider why we're with a person who can't hear us if they're to them.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: Hey, I'm really angry with you.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: And the irony is often we suppress that and then we want to stay, and then we're like I'm not happy.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: I think the vicious circle or we say it and they get mad at us for saying it, and then we shut down further and then we stay within that relationship where we can't be ourselves and the other person is being angry at us.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: The whole point of all this is we have to become authentic than ourselves.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Well and definitely listening to your body, because it's like I feel like so often let's just take romantic relationships At the beginning you're trying to impress the person.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: You like them.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I don't think we ever even ask ourselves do I like this person?
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: It's always like do they like me or do they want to see me again?
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: We're always bypassing our own system because I think we're not.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: At least, I'm speaking for myself.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: I wasn't never taught to trust myself, it was just outsourcing it to everybody.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Of course, I ended up in situations where it was just never about.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I felt like it was never about me, and then so when I showed up authentically, like they're done online, it was like well, that's not who you are.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Why are you acting like that?
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: But it's because we just don't.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like we don't listen to the little pieces of ourselves in the beginning, and so I think it's just so.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: We're waiting, we're waiting.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: We're so desperate to be loved Because then somehow, magically, it's going to prove to us that we're lovable.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: It never works.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, we have to give that to ourselves, and then it's yes and no.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: Look, I'll be very honest.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: When we are around people who have the capacity to love and demonstrate that to us, we grow much faster in those settings.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: I think it's a little bit of a misnomer to say you must do it on your own, by yourself.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: It's hard to, because you're not getting that feedback right Sometimes, like if you have a really good friend who loves you unconditionally, that's a great space to actually learn that, hey, it's okay to be myself, because to love myself means that I feel comfortable being myself.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: We need at least one person in our life, at least one person in our life who we feel completely comfortable being authentic with them.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Someone, yeah, Very good, yeah.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I spent like two years just by myself.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I pushed everyone away.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like I'm just going to heal, right.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: And then as soon as I allowed people back in, everything was triggered again.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: So I think we do and I think we're just like social creatures, right.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I think we do need that feedback.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: We do, yeah, and it's just finding, I feel like for me, it's been very much just that safety, like being safe, right.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Like being able to take care of my nervous system and situations so that I can be like, okay, even though this is uncomfortable, I know I'm safe.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: And being able to set boundaries to remove myself, which is incredibly hard, right, when you're not used to that.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: But as we're just talking about that, that's kind of what comes up.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I just think that that is so important and so like, how do you like if somebody is coming to you, how are you reprogramming that like safety for them?
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Or like what would you recommend somebody to be able to show up?
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: Refraise that for me again.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: So if somebody is in that situation right Whereas, like, we need to know that we're safe, right and I think once we understand that we're safe, like physically safe then we can maybe, like begin to show up a little bit more, discern, like, what our body is telling us and things like that.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: But for somebody who maybe has actually physically been unsafe, you know throughout their life, like, how do you begin to tell the body that it's safe to then set boundaries, it's safe to speak up, it's safe to use their voice when it's just, like, so deeply ingrained?
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: So we're talking.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: So I just want to make sure I understand the question.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: So we're talking about two different kind of things here.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: We're talking about someone who's been physically abused who doesn't feel safe right, and then nonphysically abused who doesn't feel safe to be themselves, am I?
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, am I to.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: You sure yeah.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: So I guess like I'm more coming from that physically unsafe space, but then it's also, I think, because when our body feels unsafe, we feel like we're threatened right.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: So it becomes this very real unsafe thing Correct, correct, yeah.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, look people who've been physically abused, right, let's start there, just because it's important to do that.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: It takes a really long time, through a lot of EMDR and trauma work, to trust other people, right?
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: So their nervous system is going to be wired to the top, right, and it may be so for a very, very long time and through therapy they may be able to bring it down somewhat.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: But let's say they go on a date with someone.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: That system still may be going up, but they're aware of it and being like, okay, just and so then what do you do?
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: The classic precautions you meet somewhere where it's light, there's a lot of people.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: It's like you actually have to do all the practical things over longer periods of time for that person to begin to trust more.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: So that's that side of it, right?
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: Then the person who doesn't have the let's say, physical abuse, but emotional abuse also is quite similar in a way, and then the person doesn't trust as well.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: So the nervous system is going to be again really, really wired intensely Like I can't trust, I can't trust, I can't trust.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: It's the same process.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: It's like you got to do a lot of therapy on getting that nervous system to be calm enough for the mind to evaluate situations, and so the relationship between a calm nervous system and wisdom go hand in hand.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: So if I'm in a state of fight or flight, I'm not going to be actually able to discern what's actually going on in a particular situation with another person.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: It's not going to be clear.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: I would say I would have to get it down below a five or a four on the nervous system level to be able to actually observe the other person across me to see, you know, how are they speaking, how are they reacting, how are they interacting with everyone.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: You're like real observation to assess for myself, but one time may not be enough, right?
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: So to answer your question in the most simplistic way I would say is that my nervous system has to be calm enough to evaluate.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: That's fair to.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: And then so for you specifically.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Let's just say you're out in a situation, your nervous system is activated.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: What are the steps you're doing in real time to bring it down below that five or four level?
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: I beat the hell out of the other person and just make it easy.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm just kidding, I had to just do that for fun.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: People are going to be like, oh God, who is this?
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Who is this?
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: I got to make people.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: You got to laugh a little bit, yeah, you do.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to think.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: You know, in my life.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: So a true story just happened to me about six, seven months ago.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: So you know my dad, who was still alive, and I don't think he'll never listen to one of these, but I don't really care.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: You know, I love him to people, but he was a pain in the ass growing up, really difficult.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: And I was in New York last time I was visiting home and I didn't have a car, so I borrowed his car.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: I was with my son, who was an adult now.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: We wanted to go get some Italian food.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: So we go to this place and there's no parking and there's just a the hydrant, and we're both like, yeah, we're just going to throw it into the hydrant, we're going in quick, get a sandwich and run out.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: Right, well, I got a ticket, you know, on this thing, and I'm and my body is freaking out.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about like I couldn't believe the level of being like, oh my God, I got to tell my father, oh, man, I was like five, I was like six inside of me and he's going to get.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, I got it, and I'm observing.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: You know, my, my, my wisdom mind is observing all of this and I couldn't, I could, I was.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: I was amazed at 55, 54, that my body was still reacting it that way, you know.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: So you know I settled, I settled down and I went through the process and I was like, look, I'm going to pay for the ticket.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: You know nothing going to happen to him.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: You know I'm going to pay the ticket, I'm going to go tell him.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: Whatever his reaction is, that's his reaction, I it's not.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: It's not, it's not mine.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: You see, as a child his reaction would have been mine.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: Now his reaction can't be mine, because if he, if he, comes at me, I could decide to be like no we're not doing this.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: So now I have choice in the dialogue, interaction, exchange.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: That's what I did.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: See, that's a good example, yeah.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: No, that is a good example.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: I think I was thinking too of like my.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm 37 and there's still things where, like I have to tell my mom something and I'm like, oh my gosh, like she's going to get out of me and I'm going to get in trouble and it's like for shell you're 37.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: Like look at this realistically, you're going to be fine.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: But even but, even if she does watch this, even if my, even if my dad got upset, that's on him.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: That doesn't change.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: That doesn't change the way I feel about myself.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm trying to get everybody to understand.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: If you're okay with you, you're not going to be bothered by somebody being upset with you.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: That's the most important part of this, this part of the discussion between you and I.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: It's about you knowing that if your mom is upset with you, that doesn't change the way you see you.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: Do you understand that?
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the aha that I want you to understand.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: And then so how do we be okay with ourselves?
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Like I know we've talked a lot about, you know, the somatic work and things like that you know so far in this conversation it's been incredible.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: But it's like, how do you get then from you know, obviously, therapy, like having, I think, somebody reflecting that to you, but then it is, I think, a lot of work within your own system.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: You realize you, you have to have experiences of your own true nature, of your fundamental nature, which is the disidentification with what you learned you are.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: It's the separation of saying that's not who I am, that's not me.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: That's what was learned right Through the mind, through the body A lot of I do a lot of somatic work and body to work with people and when you do that kind of embodied work, the person starts to learn to come back to an internal safety space and they start to feel who they really authentically are.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: Right Through that process they start to settle in and in a meditative way you start to settle in of who you are and you learn that you know the arising of all these emotions and thoughts and reactions is simply just a beautiful protective mechanism but not an identity.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: This is one of the biggest a-has in good therapy is that that system is not an identity.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: When the fort closes on the fort, that's not an identity.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: That's just the doors closing as a mechanism.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: We go I am that so with your mother, when you get scared like that, you associate the fear as you.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: Instead of the fear is the protection of your own inner truth, self that you're going to be heard versus I don't need the walls to protect who I am.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: If someone's mad at me, that doesn't change my sense of myself and I think like yeah, no, it definitely is, because I think that's what always like comes up to me is like the actual physical.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: I think the physical reaction to the subconscious thoughts for me is always like the thing right.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Because it's a complete full body system right Like response.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: It's like it's so powerful that being able to like take that space is challenging.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: And I think just for me it's like I've just learned to like put a pause right, Whether it's come to meditation or just have like five minutes or go to the bathroom and breathe or something, so that I can come back to myself, like in that response, because it's like If you, if you read Bazelko Bazel Banda, Bazelko Bazel Banda, coke, the body keeps the score right.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: The first section of the book is on how trauma, how trauma is formed.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: The rest of the book is how to heal it and he's very clear Human yoga, emdr and community social support the four pillars.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: You know, Western psychotherapy may be a part of that, but those were the four pillars and for me those are like four nuclear nuclear support systems.
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, person knows how to properly meditate, properly do yoga and breath work.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Breath work is like probably, probably ama, and then EMDR.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: Give me those three.
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: That's what I do, those three superpower houses for, for transforming the nervous system.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Can you explain a little bit of just like how EMDR works?
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a long, long discussion, but I'll, but I'll give a.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: I'll give a short, and skinny.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: Right, it stands for eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing, but simply it's a method of helping um recode the way experience is stored in the body and the mind in a more, in a more effective uh and effective and clear way, where the trauma is seen not from an emotional response, from a very clear, practical understanding and a major shift in the sense of I am Right.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: So within our traumas you can see that the child or the person says I'm bad, I was the one, I'm not good at all of that Right.
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: Whereas with EMDR, because we're not emotionally being charged up, we could look back and go it wasn't my fault, that that, that, that that my father smacked me, not because I was wrong, it's because he was wrong.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: So in EMDR there's a there's a shift.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: It's almost like getting off of the, the stage of the theater and looking at all the actors on stage and getting to see whose role is what and why they did it and what's the proper assignment and meaning for each person.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: That's the quick one minute, you know version of that Um, it is one of the most powerful techniques that I that I use for therapy.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: It's, it makes therapy go.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: Uh, light, lightning speed.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: I mean lightning speed.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I did it for a while and it was always like blew my mind the things that would come up like, as you're like sort of following the breadcrumbs of like thoughts and memories and things like that, and it's never, never know what connected to like this right, and it's just like every, every day, what I'm doing.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: I've been doing this for a long time, so every day when people will have a session, something like that will happen.
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: They'd be like I didn't even know that memory actually existed when.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: And then they have a memory directly connected to what we're talking about, and that memory is the one that they needed to see how a specific I am was born, and then it releases them.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it really is incredible.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Are you familiar with astrology or human design?
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: Astrology a little bit.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: I have friends who specialize in astrology Human design.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know what that is.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: So it's sort of like loosely based on astrology.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: As a part of it it's got the Chinese, the Qing Kabbalah, tree of life, quantum mechanics and things like that.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: But I know you shared your birth time with me, so I pulled your astrology chart and your design chart and, what's really interesting, so the human design.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: I can actually share my screen just for a visual for you.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Let me see.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: I hope I got my time of birth right.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: I always forget what it is.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Can you see my screen here?
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: It's pretty like, so like the details might not be like accurate, but this is what human design is, so it's essentially Can I just see my?
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: you got my birthday is February 20th 1968, right 2 PM is what you're thinking.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: Well, 2 PM yeah that's it Okay cool.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: So it's essentially really like the core themes are like this type strategy and authorities where they talk about right.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: It's your energetic body, it's your blueprint, it's sort of like your soul at the time of birth.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: So right in the beginning of this conversation we talked you talked about conditioning right, and so when you look at this, you're extremely defined, which just means you're creating a lot of energy within yourself, and so anything that's in white are the areas that you're taking in and amplifying and you're open to conditioning from others.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: And so I've just like I've had this visual like as you've been speaking, and so, as you can see, like this is your crown chakra, your head, your asana, your throat, your heart is split into in this specific in human design.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: So this is your, your G center is like love, direction, purpose, and then you have your will, your ego, right, your will, your ego, your sacral, your root, and then this is your spleen and your solar plexus.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: So it's like sort of split into two in this.
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: The only thing that you have undefined is your emotions, essentially, and so you're taking in and amplifying so that anger that you're talking about right it's.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: It's sort of like when you're looking from a human design perspective, you are taking in and amplifying the emotions that are coming off of others.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: So, in theory, if you are alone, there's no animals around you, there's no kids around you, there's no other human beings.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: In theory, you're technically, emotionally, pretty neutral for a lot of the times, like you would sort of wake up in the same mood.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: I'm, I'm, I'm.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: If you ask me my date, my daily baseline is the same all day long.
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have.
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: I have animals, I love my animals.
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't change with that and with most people.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: It doesn't actually change almost nobody, just very few people.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: Does it actually vary Very?
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: For you.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's exactly what this is, and so it's like, as that anger comes in, it's more like you're amplifying it from other people, right.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: It's sort of in energetically, what human design is saying for you.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: What I find really interesting, too, is so there's this, and I'm sure it's talked about in a lot of like spiritual texts and things like that, but there's this shift coming and it's not like it's it's it's 2027 is supposed to be the beginning of this.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Right, it's not like we're going to wake up 2027, the world's going to be changed, right, but it's supposed to be the shift in the way we we operate emotionally, and one of the biggest players in the shift is this.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: So these are called gates, right, all these little numbers here, okay, and it's just a different like flair to all these, this energy.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: So one of the biggest shifts is going to be in the state 55, which you have as your conscious son, which is Pisces, right?
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: So you're zero degrees of Pisces, which I find fascinating, because anything that's zero degrees, you're starting a whole new cycle in this.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: I am, this is, this is.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Somebody told me this.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: Somebody told me this is my last incarnation, in, in, in, in a cycle of several lifetimes.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: I think and that makes sense.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: So this, this down here, this 360, anytime I see this channel activated, that's sort of what I see and you're like last cycles, for whatever it is that you're you're learning here now.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Um but this gate 55 is essentially just the gate of the spirit and you're here to learn all about the spirit and being able to, and it's all and it's triggered by this one, this gate 39, you don't have active but this gate, any anybody with this energy is going to come and activate this for you, because when you are, because it's white, you only technically have access to this energy when it's turned on by another person or an astrological transit.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: So that makes sense.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: So so Okay, we're going to need some time on this after the show.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: Okay, so hold on After this show.
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: If you can give me 10 minutes, that would be amazing.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I have questions, yeah of course, yeah, but it's just like.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: So like when I was so obviously I looked at this before we like started talking right and I just think it's so interesting because, like all of this, like this is very everything that is defined, like you, for people listening and not watching, like you have everything defined except for your solar plexus.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: You're creating all this energy within right, and so it's not a lot of times it's always the areas that we don't have defined, the areas that we have in white, that we're always like focusing on the things that we don't have right, cause we want to fill that.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: But you're like you're, you're very defined.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: So I always, whenever I meet somebody who's so defined like this, it's just really interesting to observe like that energy, like the energetic blueprint or like the you know the things that cause I'm I'm fairly undefined.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I'm undefined in the important places.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: I'll say that right.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: So for me, when I look back at my life and I'm like, oh, my self worth and I didn't know who I was and all these things I was always trying to like scramble and like fill that energy when it wasn't mine to begin with.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: And so you know, when we're talking about sort of self love and acceptance and things like that, for me and my journey it was human design and astrology.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: With that I was able to see like wow, those areas that I was trying so hard to be seen were just things that if I could have just accepted that like hey, I'm not necessarily, like I'm a chameleon, I'm going to shift and change with whoever I'm with, just because that's my energetic blueprint instead of being like.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: I need to find out who I am and be a certain way.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: And so it's just really interesting.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: So is that?
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: Is that show you that that I'm quite stable that way?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: It just shows me that you are very energetically different.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Like you're putting out a lot of energy.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: I do, I do.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so people that are within your energy are going to be picking up and amplifying that from you, right, and so a lot of people may reflect you in their own being because you're putting it out.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: But it's.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: It's so like this crown, the head right here being defined.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Not a lot of people have that setup right, and so it's like you are creating inspiration within yourself.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: You don't necessarily need to go out and take it in from other people and, of course, those shadows of everything right, so you're very fixed in the way that you're thinking so it may be a little bit more hard to change the way that you think, but I also love this.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: So a lot of people who have my son has this setup and it's so interesting because he will sort of like play the devil's advocate or he'll be like a shit stirrer, not because, like he is trying to change your mind.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: I think he just like likes to watch it where he's so fixed in the way that he thinks he's like let me just like stir the pot and walk away and see what happens.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: But like knowing that is helpful, right.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just really interesting.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I saw that zero degrees of Pisces and I think your Venus is at zero degrees as well.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your Venus is zero degrees of Aquarius, which is also like sort of starting a cycle as well.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm starting a cycle, yeah.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: So Aquarius and Pisces are just, I would say, like pretty in your cancer rising, which means that the moon is your chart ruler and the moon for you is in Scorpio, Super intense, deep.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: You know all the things like holding onto things and things like that.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: So you have a lot of like in your big three.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Right, your sun, moon and your rising are all water.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: And that's just super intuitive and spiritual.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: So when I see that, I'm like it makes so much sense that you would like sort of combine those two worlds right, and I know you said you didn't like the term spiritual, but they're sort of like it's just really interesting.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: But I live in those waters, yeah for sure.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, this has been so, so fascinating and so powerful, Like even just the little thing you did with me and my system, like I really, really felt that deeply.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: So I appreciate so much this conversation.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: If you want to let everyone know, you know how they can work with you and where they can find you, of course, leave everything in the showdowns as well.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the best thing is it's my website.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: I really don't.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: I don't do a lot of social media, but it's.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: It's going to be JourneyToHolenesshelp.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: That's the website.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: There's everything about me there.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I will definitely link that up and thank you so much.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: I want to talk to you for a few minutes.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: I'll um and I like uh.