Latest / Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors Podcast / Exploring the Laughter and Lessons in 'Who Pooped in the Tub?'

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Exploring the Laughter and Lessons in 'Who Pooped in the Tub?' · Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors Podcast

2:39
Shannon Castellarin, author of the book who Pooped in the Tub?
2:43
Thanks, Shannon, for appearing on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors Podcast.
2:50
Shannon has mentioned she's written a children's book and today we're going to discuss her book, who Pooped in the Tub?
2:57
And I look forward to our conversation.
3:00
Shannon, before we get into the details of your book, can you tell us what it means to you being a children's book author?
3:07
I think for me, I've always loved writing and for me this book, it was a way just to capture moments from my young boys.
3:15
They're older now, but it was really a way to just some of the richness of the moments, their reaction to things and marry that with an important message of pollution, but to do it in a way that was
3:27
humorous.
3:28
And so this is where, yeah, looking back over the journey of writing this book, I'm really proud of the way things came together.
3:35
It was a spark of an idea and it was allowed to take flight and materialize into a book.
3:40
And it was funny because I never really thought of myself that way.
3:43
It more felt like a story when a message that needed to come from me and really happy that this was a medium that it resulted in.
3:50
Terrific.
3:51
I have a younger brother.
3:53
I read your book about four times and so I can relate to it.
3:57
And you know what?
3:58
My mother, because my dad was in the forces she had to put up with a lot of times she was the only adult in the household and even when my dad was home, she was still the only adult
4:11
in the household.
4:12
So anyways, it was great.
4:14
I can definitely relate to this whole story that your boys went through and you went through.
4:20
Thank you.
4:20
It was quite the ordeal.
4:22
Yeah.
4:22
When something like this would happen, were.
4:24
The boys the inspiration behind the book?
4:28
They were.
4:29
I remember when they were growing up, it was so interesting to see how they experienced the world, how they perceived things and then their reaction to it.
4:39
And so I think this is where having them now in their 20s and looking back, it was some of the really funny moments.
4:45
But then also many years later when I'm not in the midst of cleaning something and getting them to where they need to be, it was really looking at what analogies can I pull with other aspects of my life.
4:57
And so this is where I've spent most of my career.
5:01
So I'm in Canada, I work in the public service and I worked for environment and climate change Canada.
5:06
And I worked on a lot of environmental related issues like pollution, plastics pollution and there were some Moments, particularly this one where, you know, just that complete annoyance of having a brother poop in the tub ruin your bath
5:21
time, just how that would translate into wanting to go to a beach and just having it full of litter.
5:27
And so I was really looking for.
5:29
And certainly with my boys, I remember when they were growing up, things had to be simple and it had to resonate.
5:35
And so this is where I was really hoping this was a way just to blend in that reminiscence.
5:41
The stories use a bit of humor, but then also to have the message and have it get out and hopefully there's other children out there that this will resonate with and it'll be something that they remember.
5:52
I love it.
5:52
I love the title.
5:53
It just brings a chuckle.
5:57
And I don't think it really matters whether a lot of times when you have siblings that are fairly close in age, whether they're like we had, my daughter was the oldest, my son was the youngest.
6:08
Couple of years difference.
6:10
So they did bath together when they were younger.
6:13
And that whole bath time ritual and when you described all the toys and the bubbles and all of that, whether it's was with my brother and myself or my daughter and my son, we can all relate to that
6:29
if we have siblings that are very close in age to each other.
6:33
And I was the same way.
6:34
I have a couple brothers, we're all a year apart.
6:37
And very much when we were little, I remember that it was the bubbles, you grabbed your toys and you went,.
6:43
Yeah, how many duckies can we bring.
6:47
Into the world before someone says, that's enough.
6:50
Exactly.
6:51
Like there's too much in the tub.
6:54
And I saw an advertisement the other day on Facebook.
6:57
You can actually have your face put on a rubber ducky now.
7:01
Oh, no way.
7:01
Oh, that's interesting.
7:02
That would be cute, actually.
7:05
I'm not sure, but it'd be funny, that's for sure.
7:09
I'm interested, Shannon, because you're.
7:11
I believe you're a first time children's book authority.
7:15
I am, yeah.
7:16
I always talk to people about their children's book business.
7:21
Can you tell us a little bit about how you envision now that you have this product?
7:28
So now you have a product to sell.
7:30
How do you envision your children's book business?
7:34
Like, how do you see it going?
7:36
It's interesting you mentioned that because at one point I was so focused on the story that I really didn't have my head up to look at.
7:43
So what now?
7:45
And one part is having fun getting the book out, meeting people, doing some of the book signings.
7:51
But then it's also looking at what's the next story and where do I want to go and where am I drawing my inspiration from?
7:58
And so I feel like right now I'm in that bit of in between.
8:02
The book is out there.
8:03
People can get access to it, but it's really looking at.
8:06
Yeah, like where is it?
8:08
Part of it too is for me, it's where do I really feel inspired?
8:11
Like, I know this first story, I found it really flowed and then it was learning the process.
8:17
I went with a publisher, how to match the illustrations to the story, what is my vision and how do I translate it.
8:24
And so I think, yeah, now I'm really thinking, what is my next story?
8:28
Is it the same theme?
8:30
Is it something completely different?
8:32
So a bit of TBD there.
8:34
It's really the beginning in terms of.
8:36
Distribution, selling and marketing.
8:38
Your book.
8:39
Do you have a business plan?
8:41
Not a huge one, to be honest.
8:42
And I probably need to work a bit more.
8:45
Like I'm on social media.
8:46
I contacted local bookstores because I had been with a publisher they had really helped with or.
8:52
Sorry, yeah, I guess it was a publisher.
8:54
It was a company that helped develop the book and publish.
8:57
Okay.
8:57
And so, yeah, they were really helpful.
9:00
But to be honest, I probably do need to do a bit more because I found it's a lot of.
9:05
You really need to keep at it.
9:06
And so I did it first it was bringing the books, dropping them off, checking in, doing the book signings.
9:12
And sometimes it was nice, like some of the bigger venues, like Chapters, if they saw me there, they'd get me to actually autograph them.
9:18
So that was nice.
9:20
And also looking at.
9:21
And this has all been within Ottawa and I think really for me it's now looking.
9:25
Doing some of the bigger cities, venturing out to maybe Toronto and beyond to get the book out.
9:30
So, yeah, I think this is Conversation's probably a good reminder of the need to pick up.
9:35
And I interviewed a gal from auto episode 103.
9:38
She's written a couple of children's books and her latest book is called Pixie Dusted Ottawa and her name is Mary Jean Harris.
9:48
We're not related, but if you get a chance, look her up because I know she has several people in her group, like children's book authors and, you know, what is such a giving community.
10:01
So she might be able to tell you what she's doing.
10:04
And she also has a company that actually they dress.
10:08
They dress up like fairies and they do events around Ottawa.
10:12
Oh, that sounds like a good Idea.
10:14
I have plugged into some of the social media, like the Facebook group.
10:17
Yes.
10:18
But I will look her up.
10:19
So thank you for that.
10:20
You're welcome.
10:21
You're welcome.
10:22
So it should be fine.
10:23
I noticed you have your books in, I believe, ebook, soft cover, but no hardcover, Is that right?
10:32
Oh, no, there is a hardcover.
10:33
Oh, there is a hardcover.
10:35
Okay.
10:35
Yeah.
10:35
Okay, great.
10:36
And they're all available through Amazon, our.
10:40
Indigo, on my website.
10:42
The link should be live for the.
10:45
The suppliers, but yeah, the mainstream.
10:48
Yeah.
10:49
Fantastic.
10:50
I noticed you're using Ingram Sparks for everything outside of Amazon, is that correct?
10:56
I am, yes.
10:58
Okay.
10:58
Okay, terrific, Terrific.
11:00
And that seems to be a lot of people's strategy.
11:03
Amazon, because they still are such a large part of the book sales and then to reach everybody else, is that ingramsparks seems to be the go to publishing company.
11:16
It was.
11:16
And I noticed some of the bigger venues like Chapters and Indigo, they do like it.
11:22
The fact that they did like the fact I was with Ingram Sparks.
11:25
And I think what they like is they can bring the books in and then if they want to return them for whatever reason, if they should they not sell, or if they had too many, there's that option to
11:35
do so.
11:35
It provides flexibilities and some of the.
11:38
Yeah, the bigger stores are willing to take a risk.
11:40
Yes, absolutely.
11:42
So I know each of us has a.
11:44
And you mentioned a little bit earlier, each of us has a unique publishing approach, whether you're self published, hybrid published, traditionally published.
11:53
And I noticed you use Friesen's Press.
11:57
So tell us about that experience.
11:59
What type of publisher are they?
12:01
I came about them, actually.
12:03
It was interesting.
12:04
I had written my book.
12:06
It was mulling around.
12:07
It had been probably a year, and I just happened to be at a retirement party and someone had brought a book of someone they knew who had published it.
12:16
So I'd gotten the name.
12:17
It was a common acquaintance and I met with her and she had told me about Friesen Press and said it was a really good experience.
12:24
So I went for it.
12:25
So I reached out.
12:26
They were really very helpful, walked me through the A to Z process and it was really about.
12:33
It started with getting my manuscript.
12:36
So my story and then having going through and editing it, then looking at.
12:40
Okay, before we do the illustrations, what is the logical flow, breaking up the story.
12:46
And then once that was set, it was moving into the illustrations.
12:50
And that was interesting because it was picking an illustrator looking at different styles and really reflecting on what do I want this book to convey.
12:58
Just because with Freedom Press does children's books, but they also do adult and novels books.
13:04
But I found certainly with the children's books, like, the illustrations are so much of part of the story.
13:10
And so it was finding that right fit.
13:12
And I found I was really happy with them.
13:15
They're a hybrid publisher.
13:17
So in other words, you paid for their services to publish your book.
13:24
I did, yes, I did.
13:25
So I was able to pay.
13:27
Yeah, in installments.
13:28
So that was helpful as well.
13:30
And they actually helped you find an illustrator or they provided an illustrator.
13:35
Provided.
13:36
So they have illustrators.
13:37
So part of.
13:38
They sell packages.
13:39
So the package I had it provided the illustrator.
13:42
Okay.
13:42
And so there was a few.
13:44
And I was able to see samples, samples of their art and then go from there.
13:48
And then the illustrator's name is on the front cover of your book.
13:51
It's Paul Schultz.
13:53
Paul Schultz.
13:54
And we'll get into that because a lot of times what happens, I'm getting close to interviewing a hundred children's book authors.
14:01
And a lot of times when I talk to someone who uses a hybrid publisher, they'll give you three or four names, but they put all the onus on you to do the work, so it's okay.
14:14
Yeah.
14:14
So it's kind of neat that Freeze and Press actually provides you with an illustrator.
14:20
It was quite nice.
14:21
And they even did the coordination.
14:24
They managed the process.
14:25
So it would be the sketches.
14:27
And then if I had comments, there was someone to help manage that, be the in between, explain what I wanted.
14:33
So it was quite helpful, actually, in.
14:36
Terms of the publishing itself.
14:38
And it sounds like most of it was a really positive experience for you.
14:42
Was there a big challenge or a frustration that you had?
14:48
What's interesting, I remember when I started the process, what it was is, so they had planned it for 12 months.
14:54
And I remember thinking, I already have my story.
14:56
It's not going to take that long.
14:58
But it was really interesting when it was having the.
15:02
To think about taking a story.
15:04
And now if I had like a.
15:06
I guess a storyboard, how would I map it out onto each of the pages?
15:10
So If I had 28 pages, what aspects of the story would go where?
15:16
And then just did it all fit?
15:18
And I found initially it was a little hard because there'd be some aspects that fit really well together, but then others didn't.
15:25
So it was doing that and then it was really the illustrations.
15:29
It would say, okay, here's a line in my story, but what are the characters doing?
15:34
Who's in it?
15:34
What are their facial expressions?
15:37
What's the background looking like?
15:38
And so it.
15:39
It was a fun process, but it was.
15:41
When I got into the details, I just realized, I don't want to say it was really a precision, but that need to be precise and know what I wanted.
15:50
And then with the illustrations as well, it was.
15:53
Yeah, it was making sure there was an adequate flow through the book.
15:57
And so I know there were some spots where we had to take some of the illustrations and maybe use them in other parts to show the continuation of the story.
16:06
But in the end, it came together.
16:07
Really nice job.
16:08
Thank you.
16:09
I really enjoyed it.
16:10
Like I said, it reminded me of my brother and I.
16:13
You were talking about writing another children's book.
16:18
Would you use Freeze and Press again?
16:21
I would.
16:22
I definitely would, yes.
16:24
I would go back to them.
16:25
Okay.
16:26
Yeah.
16:26
And what's.
16:27
Yeah.
16:27
And just.
16:28
So the part I didn't say is.
16:29
So then once the book was put together, there was a marketer who was assigned to me, who helped me develop my website site, who went through the social media, gave me tips and tricks.
16:40
So really helpful because as I alluded to earlier, having a marketing plan wasn't top of mind for me.
16:46
It was really.
16:47
It was the creation of the story, the.
16:49
The final product.
16:51
And I think it was.
16:52
Now, how do I translate that into something?
16:54
Get it out there.
16:55
So definitely I would go back with them.
16:57
I really appreciated having someone be on that journey with me.
17:01
Yeah, no, it's nice when that happens.
17:04
If you listen to a lot of our episodes, there's so many hybrid type publishers and the stories vary on what kind of assistance you get and what kind of.
17:15
Was the marketing service itself built into the price of what you paid was.
17:22
So the package.
17:23
And I don't remember which ones they were, but the one I had, it was because I knew I was going to need it, otherwise I wouldn't take it.
17:30
So.
17:30
Terrific.
17:31
Some are a la carte and then some have three or four different packages.
17:36
Sounds like Reason Press has three or four packages that they make available.
17:43
They do.
17:44
And for me it was worth it.
17:46
I know at first I, yeah, gave it a little bit of thought, but then just thought, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to really follow it through.
17:53
Let's dig a little deeper into your illustrator.
17:57
So was your illustrator local or were they somewhere else?
18:02
Honestly, I never met him, so I don't know.
18:06
Pretty sure Friesen Press is a.
18:07
I thought they were Canadian company.
18:09
Okay.
18:10
But I never actually met him.
18:11
We never did have a call together.
18:14
It was definitely all through email.
18:17
It was.
18:18
And the person Sort of the project manager that I had.
18:21
Like, she was from Manitoba, so we would meet, but she was really good, too.
18:56
She didn't hear from me.
18:58
She'd follow up and say, hey, I just want to make sure you're looking at this.
19:02
So.
19:02
Yeah.
19:03
So it was great.
19:04
It was.
19:04
Yeah.
19:05
Okay.
19:06
And the only reason I ask, and I share this with any aspiring children's book author is, for example, our illustrator is in the uk, and so.
19:18
Oh, okay.
19:19
But I've talked to so many American children's book authors where their illustrator is in Italy or in the Philippines or in South America.
19:30
It's amazing where your illustrators are and they not sitting next to you.
19:37
No.
19:37
But I will say that Paul was.
19:40
He was responsive.
19:42
So changes came quickly, regardless of where he was.
19:45
He did.
19:46
Yeah.
19:46
He did respond.
19:47
I love your book because the mother, who you never really name, obviously is a takeoff on you.
19:56
And then are the two boys a takeoff on your sons?
20:01
They are actually very much.
20:03
And even just the attributes, I really.
20:06
Yeah, I.
20:07
Same with their friend.
20:08
It was real.
20:09
It really is a snapshot from when they were young.
20:12
You supplied Paul with the photos of yourself and the boys when they were younger?
20:18
No, it was just description.
20:20
So it was like.
20:22
It was, what do these characters look like?
20:25
And so for the main character, Jared, I described him blonde hair, blue eyes.
20:30
I described his build, his brother, little bit smaller, chubbier, like.
20:34
All of that came from description.
20:36
That is terrific.
20:38
And so we're happy with the way the illustrations turned out.
20:43
I was.
20:43
And I will say, even there.
20:45
There was some back and forth, I'd say, oh, no, change it like this, or the glasses should look like this.
20:50
But what was nice is there was a willingness and an openness to make those tweaks and adjustments.
20:56
And I'd say I probably went back a few times just to perfect it.
21:00
Yeah, it's really amazing, Shannon, when.
21:03
When people get.
21:04
And I found this, about 90% of the time, when someone gets an illustrator that they like, it's pure gold.
21:14
And they don't want to let go of them.
21:15
Even though sometimes I've talked to children's book authors who have done 10 or 15 children's books and the themes are different, then they will switch the illustrator, but you have to drag them into that.
21:31
Would you go back to Paul?
21:33
I would.
21:34
And so when I was looking for an illustrator, because this was something where I really had my boys in mind, where they were active, they were physical.
21:44
And I wanted the art to really jump out, to be physical.
21:48
The story had to really kind of be action oriented.
21:52
And when I saw that art, his art really resonated with me.
21:56
It was.
21:57
I just.
21:57
Yeah, the loudness, the expressiveness of it, even the characters.
22:01
It just.
22:02
Yeah, so I would actually.
22:04
Because I feel like, yeah, to me, that's it just.
22:07
Yeah, it does resonate.
22:09
So, yes, I would continue using him.
22:11
I always talk about the chicken or the egg, which came first.
22:17
I think in your case we know which came first.
22:19
Or was it done in conjunction?
22:21
You mentioned.
22:23
And I want to talk to you about your website because it's a cute website.
22:27
And so when you were working with Friesen on your book, were you working in tandem to bring your website to the marketplace or onto the World Wide Web?
22:40
The website came after.
22:42
So it was really the book.
22:43
And then the website was built after that.
22:46
Which is a fair point because for future books, you're right, now I have a website.
22:51
So now it'll be really deciding at what point do I start providing a sneak peek of the book, letting people know there's something coming.
22:59
In this case, it was.
23:01
Yeah, the book came first.
23:02
It's interesting you should say that because I've told this story before.
23:06
So hopefully the listening audience will.
23:09
They can fast forward this part.
23:10
But when we started out, I got our website name.
23:15
I registered it on GoDaddy and so it was ours.
23:19
And the only thing is I just had the name.
23:23
I didn't have a website.
23:25
And so I talked to the guy who helped format our children's book.
23:31
He said to me, oh, you know what, you can just make the website live.
23:36
But what we'll do is when people go to your website, it just links to the Amazon page and that they can buy your book.
23:42
And I thought, oh, genius.
23:44
So there's my website.
23:46
It just goes to Amazon.
23:48
How many of us send everybody to Amazon?
23:51
We don't get any email addresses or build a email list.
23:55
Amazon gets all that.
23:58
So eventually I did like you did.
24:00
We developed our own website.
24:02
It's always an interesting story when you start out.
24:05
Yeah, that's funny, actually.
24:07
It's like bare bones.
24:08
Here's the link and link to where you can get it.
24:10
Yep.
24:11
Give me your cash and here's my book.
24:14
When you were thinking about your website in terms of a name, so you didn't name it after your book, you didn't name it poopy website or something like that.
24:25
What was the recommendation for the naming your website?
24:29
I think in this case, because the.
24:30
I know the address like it is my name.
24:32
It's www.shannoncastleran.com it was really.
24:36
I think it was that it was focusing more on the author, knowing that you are just allowing for the opportunity that there could be more books and publications to come.
24:46
So I think the publicist or.
24:48
Yeah.
24:49
Or certainly the marketer had a bit of foresight to say let's plan for the long term, not just be.
24:54
Yeah.
24:55
Sort of story specific.
24:56
Terrific, terrific.
24:58
Thank you.
24:59
When it came to your website currently, how are you driving traffic to your website?
25:06
Like how are.
25:07
How are people finding you?
25:08
Are you using your social media?
25:10
Are you.
25:12
How are you definitely driving?
25:13
I have been trying to do that.
25:14
It's been through the social media is making it available.
25:17
So that's been the primary tool.
25:19
It's doing that.
25:21
And then certainly if I do reach out to like to bookstores, I will put a link right in there to my website.
25:28
And it's also meant to be easy too.
25:29
If someone were to put in my name, my website pops up using Friesen.
25:33
And you said that you purchased some of the marketing aspects behind through the package.
25:40
Can you think of what has been your biggest marketing success?
25:45
I would say being able.
25:47
So I would say I have the website, but I think what was helpful was reaching out into my community, so the Ottawa community and just getting people who are interested and I think they were interested.
25:58
And this was when the book was just coming out and it was even before.
26:02
Honestly I was still waiting for my.
26:04
My paperbacks and my hardcovers to arrive.
26:07
But there was enough interest that people said, hey, this looks great, bring us a few copies.
26:12
So there is value in having a website.
26:14
I think it makes it more legit.
26:16
People can look you up and they can, they can do so on their own time.
26:20
There were links in there.
26:21
Eventually the links went live to where people could find the book as well.
26:25
So I think it is really helpful.
26:27
It's certainly, I would say the most success it was that it was getting into the community and it was really.
26:33
How did you do that?
26:34
How did you get into the community?
26:36
Did you go in physically and meet people or did you have a large group of friends or when you say go into the community, how did you do that?
26:45
I had my mom and my son's girlfriend.
26:48
They each went.
26:50
So I went.
26:50
I pulled a whole bunch of names of local bookstores.
26:54
We split it up and just reached out.
26:56
And so some was email, some was calling depending and went from there.
27:02
And so some of them, once they.
27:04
They were interested, then when the books came in, I followed up, took the books, went in to see them they had a look, they said, yep, we'll put four or five on our shelves.
27:13
And for a lot of these smaller bookstores, there is a consignment agreement.
27:17
So it was signing that and understanding the percentages that they would get versus myself for the one that went, that I went in and did the book signing.
27:26
That was really interesting.
27:27
It was all of a sudden being there, having people come in, look at the book, answer questions.
27:33
So, yeah, so I would say, I think that was certainly for me a big milestone and I hadn't even really thought that far ahead to have that kind of take off.
27:42
But again, I think where I probably need to do more is just to continue that to pick up.
27:47
I'm due again, I think, to do that sort of another sweep, get the book up there.
27:52
But I would say certainly the website helps and people feeling like this is a legitimate thing that they can invest in that they're you're going to respond to.
28:00
Because I do think too there's a lot of spam and stuff out there, but having the website really helped.
28:06
I think the nice thing about your website is doing it.
28:11
After you did your book launch, you were able to use some of the assets through your illustrations to develop your website.
28:20
Exactly, exactly.
28:22
Yeah.
28:22
It was material to pull from.
28:25
Yes.
28:25
And that's what I say to everybody.
28:27
I said, you know what?
28:28
Even though a lot of people suggest you have your website before you launch your book, we were like you, we launched your book and then finally realized we need the website.
28:37
But the beautiful thing about it is we had these assets called our illustrations and we were able to use that.
28:44
And our website developer did an awesome job able to pull from the illustrations to help build out a website.
28:52
To me, there's definitely some advantages, especially for a first time children's book author, to waiting until your book is launched or almost launched.
29:02
So you have some assets to build on a website.
29:06
Exactly.
29:07
And then I feel like once I did that there was a bit of momentum and so I could add to it or so more.
29:13
So I think probably on my social media feeds, but it was really, oh, here I am in the, here the books are in the store or here's the book signing.
29:22
So it was kind of nice.
29:23
Whereas I think if I had done the website first, there would have been such a lull between that and the book coming out that some of that momentum, I may not have felt it.
29:32
As strongly when it comes to the motivation.
29:37
I know we talked about your sons and their lives as they were younger and all that, but was There a person or an event that kind of went.
29:48
Because you said your boys are in their 20s now.
29:50
So was this event or this person you went, oh, my goodness, I can be a children's book author.
29:58
What it was is my nephews are about 20 years younger than my boys.
30:03
And so I was babysitting probably a few years ago now, and they asked to tell a story.
30:10
And when I was thinking I was started telling stories of when my boys were young and this was one.
30:15
And back then, too, and they were the same.
30:18
When I'd give them a bath, it was both of them in the tub.
30:21
So I felt like I was reliving through my nephews, and it was just the perfect fodder just to.
30:27
Yeah.
30:28
Pull everything together.
30:29
But that was probably the event.
30:31
It was.
30:31
Yeah.
30:32
Isn't that nice when something like that triggers something and it motivates you?
30:38
It really is, actually.
30:40
Yeah, it really was.
30:42
And it's interesting.
30:43
They were probably the first ones I sent a copy of the book to and signed it.
30:47
Like.
30:48
Oh, they.
30:49
Yeah.
30:50
Have they said you gotta come over and read it?
30:53
No, not yet.
30:54
But it's funny.
30:55
My dad wants me to come and read it.
30:57
So he has a copy of the book as well.
30:59
But read it and sign it.
31:00
But, yeah, I'm sure when I see them, especially the youngest, he'll probably pull it out for me to read to him.
31:06
Character development.
31:08
First of all, are the characters in your book.
31:10
So you got Jared and.
31:13
How do you say, your youngest son's name or the youngest boy in the story's name?
31:19
Kean.
31:20
Kean.
31:20
Okay.
31:21
So are Jared and Kean the name of your sons?
31:25
They are.
31:26
Yes, they are.
31:26
Okay.
32:01
Oh, and because again, it's.
32:04
I love it.
32:04
Because that's the beautiful thing about being a children's book author in today's world.
32:10
You get to be the decision maker.
32:12
We published two children's books so far in our.
32:16
Our series called the Adventures of Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear.
32:19
And Caboose starts with a K, not a C.
32:22
And that's because my oldest granddaughter's name is Kira, which starts with a K.
32:27
And putting that personal touch into it, I have four other grandchildren.
32:32
They're all characters in either the two books or.
32:36
Or future books, and we use their actual names and what they got to do.
32:42
All of our stories take place in the Canadian Rocky Mountains.
32:46
I did some research on what animals actually naturally habitate in the Canadian Rocky.
32:53
And then I wrote the list, and then I said, okay, you pick your character.
32:57
And so that's what they did, that.
33:00
Sounds like a lot of fun.
33:01
Yeah.
33:02
And I think as much as my boys are older and they're like, whatever, Mom.
33:07
I think they probably got a kick out of, you know, being in the book.
33:11
And it's funny, even my nephews, I've said to them, oh, maybe I'll write a story about you with your names in there.
33:17
So I do think no matter the age, there's something.
33:20
It just.
33:21
I don't know, to me, it makes it more personal, makes it more fun.
33:24
Yeah, absolutely.
33:27
Because I even know with, like you said, as they get older, as my grandchildren are getting older kind of attitude.
33:35
But I can tell there's still a sense of pride that their characters that they chose, they've come to life through a children's book.
33:44
Hopefully, as they get into having their own children, then it'll be even more meaningful, I think.
33:51
So it's kind of neat because it's almost like a bit of legacy that lives on through the generations.
33:57
So, yeah, hopefully I'm hoping one day my boys will read it to their kids and talk about, yeah, this happened when we were young and answer whatever questions kind of flow from that.
34:08
The main character is Jared.
34:10
You're the oldest boy and of course, the mother talk to us about the relationship with his younger brother and the relationship with Tyler, Jared's best friend.
34:23
Yeah.
34:23
And so this really does take me back to when they were younger.
34:27
So my boys are only.
34:28
They're 20 months apart.
34:30
And it's interesting, the mother in this story was carrying Kian a lot behind sometimes, but that was a lot of the times, how it was.
34:39
It was.
34:39
Jared would be off doing stuff with his friends.
34:41
Kian wanted to be picked up, and we were.
34:44
I was trying to keep up.
34:45
So that dynamics certainly did play out quite a bit with us.
34:49
And Tyler was a neighborhood friend who was over all the time.
34:53
He was same age as Jared.
34:55
My boys, because they were a bit closer in age maybe, than how it was depicted in the book, they would hang out together.
35:01
But, yeah, Jared and Tyler at one point went everywhere together.
35:04
So it wasn't uncommon to go swimming somewhere, go to the beach, go to someone's house.
35:09
So it was really, yeah, a bit of a look back in time.
35:13
Is Tyler still around?
35:15
I think Jared and Tyler have lost touch sometimes.
35:18
It's funny, I've asked him just randomly, do you talk to him?
35:21
And.
35:22
Oh, no, I haven't.
35:23
I think he went to college or is doing this or that.
35:26
But no, not.
35:27
And the only reason I ask is I know my Son since he was about nine.
35:32
There was three other friends that he stayed lifelong friends through their whole.
35:38
Even as they'd had children and built their adult life.
35:42
Yeah, So I just.
35:43
I was really nice.
35:46
Yeah.
35:47
But you never know.
35:48
Some.
35:48
Who knows, they might bump into each other and they're at that point in their life that they've got common interests again and connect.
35:55
I love the book title and it sets up the theme for your book.
35:59
Talk to us about the theme of your book.
36:03
Yeah, so the theme of the book, it's really about littering.
36:06
And it's really, bottom line to say to a child, don't litter.
36:10
Yeah, okay.
36:11
What.
36:11
Whatever.
36:12
But to do it in a way that resonates.
36:14
And it was.
36:15
What can be more disgusting than having someone poop in your bathtub when Just that inconvenience.
36:22
But if you're able to just capture that feeling and then translate it to.
36:27
This is what it's like when people litter, when our beaches are disgusting.
36:30
And so it was just trying to really see.
36:33
See that issue of littering and the impact from maybe that angle to hopefully resonate.
36:39
And I don't know, maybe these kids grow up and it's something else, like I was saying that they retain.
36:45
Because I think I can talk about all the health effects, the toxicological effects, but that's not going to resonate.
36:52
If it's like someone pooping in your bathtub, that's pretty gross.
36:55
I love a lesson of teaching or a teaching lesson, and it kind of moves along through the story, and I love that.
37:04
So you know how you go from a bathtub to eventually a lake in between.
37:11
You had the pools.
37:12
Really a nice segue through the whole story.
37:17
You're welcome.
37:18
Thank you.
37:19
So did you think about that or how did you.
37:23
What was your thought process?
37:25
It was a little bit.
37:26
And I think it was like, certainly the bathtub.
37:29
It was very much top of mind remembering that reminders from the nephews making that connection just to littering, just because that from a professional vantage point is an issue.
37:41
And then it was like, okay, what is in between?
37:43
And then just remembering moments when we'd be in a public pool and it would have to be cleared and everyone's grossed out.
37:50
Oh, there was something.
37:51
And I think there had been times when the kids would say, yeah, they closed the pool.
37:55
Our swimming lesson was canceled.
37:56
So there was some truth, maybe not exactly with Tyler, but there had been moments throughout their childhood.
38:03
And then it just.
38:04
It was stringing it together and it just flowed together.
38:07
And to be honest, I felt like the writing it real.
38:10
Yeah.
38:11
That was probably the easiest part, is pulling together at least the.
38:15
The beginnings and the foundation of a story.
38:17
I want to pick up on that.
38:18
So I want to talk to you about your writing process because now that we know that you've got other children's books in your mind and are bounce around in your head, share some insights into how you see this
38:32
whole process developing or what is your writing process look like?
38:38
I know for me, sometimes it's just sitting down and just writing the idea and not criticizing myself, not editing, but just letting it flow.
38:49
And.
38:50
And that's what happened with this book.
38:51
It was flowing.
38:53
Yeah.
38:53
And then by the time I'm put half an hour in, I've got the better part of a page.
38:58
Sometimes I'll go back, add more, but it's really almost that kind of dedicating time going in and just allowing the story to flow.
39:06
And not, like I said, not judging, not trying to edit, but really putting the ideas down.
39:12
And then once I have the ideas, just moving them together and stringing along the stories, that was certainly the case here.
39:18
I know for some other ideas what I'll do sometimes if I have an idea or something funny that I remember is sometimes I'll jot that down and then if I do spend time writing, it's okay.
39:29
Do I want to expand this one more if it.
39:32
Yeah.
39:32
So to me that's always been the process.
39:35
It's just allowing that free flow and having the time to let the creative process just.
39:41
Yeah.
39:42
Unfold.
39:43
Besides your own personal experience, and I know you described that you're in the environmental side of working for the government.
39:52
Did you draw on any additional research from your professional background?
39:59
No.
40:00
And to be honest, like really this came.
40:02
I worked on the plastics file at Environment and Climate Change Canada.
40:07
And so I had seen enough of just plastic pollution.
40:11
And it was really.
40:12
This was a few years ago.
40:13
It was an issue that was very top of mind.
40:15
So I think I was surrounded during my working day by enough information that it was enough just to really inspire the story.
40:25
Yeah.
40:25
Yeah.
40:25
And like you said, Shannon, you're writing your children's books.
40:29
You don't want to get into the technical terms for no, no.
40:34
Or socio.
40:35
Economic implications because littering is expensive and cleanups are expensive.
40:40
But if it's.
40:41
Why not start young?
40:42
And you just remember this is.
40:44
Yeah, this is gross.
40:45
Just.
40:46
That's perfect.
40:47
We talked about having a business book plan, but I'm curious.
40:53
I'd like to delve a bit deeper into how you I want you to look at this from two sides of the coin.
41:01
So I'd like you to think about, oh, what did you envision success before you published?
41:07
And then what was the check in of reality when you did publish your book and get it into the real world?
41:15
I can definitely.
41:16
And I'm smiling because I think before I published, success was just publishing, getting that book off the press.
41:23
It's printed.
41:24
I've got the illustrations.
41:25
Here's my story.
41:26
But I think after publishing, it's great you have this book.
41:29
Nobody knows about it.
41:31
So it's really, how do I get it out there?
41:34
How am I patient?
41:35
How am I looking at ebbs and flows of my energy or where there's uptake and.
41:40
Yeah.
41:40
And just.
41:41
But realizing too, that it's part of a longer journey.
41:44
And really.
41:45
Yes, getting the book, it was an important first part, but it's also.
41:49
Yeah.
41:49
Getting the message out, talking about it, promoting the book.
41:53
And I will say those are things I probably don't come by naturally.
41:57
It's great to be able to write a book, be creative, but then putting on a marketing hat, I will say, yeah, I'm still learning.
42:04
I would say success has shifted.
42:07
It's.
42:08
I think it's more of a perception on a continuum of the journey of getting a book successfully out in the public realm.
42:14
How long did it take you to think of yourself as a published children's book authority?
42:20
It took a while.
42:22
Even when the book was out, I was like, oh, okay, I've got a book.
42:26
It was.
42:27
I knew it, but I didn't feel it.
42:29
And it was interesting because I.
42:30
The book signing that I was talking about, I did it really within a month or two.
42:35
And I almost felt kind of shy.
42:37
And I remember thinking, this is my book.
42:39
Like, why am I shy about it?
42:40
But it was just.
42:41
I think it was that it was really having it set in.
42:44
Yeah.
42:44
I'm a published author.
42:46
I need to really step in and own this role and run with it.
42:50
Okay.
42:51
And the only reason I chuckle is I think all of us, even when we're putting our social media together, is thinking, I have a children's book Author on episodes 14 and 82.
43:03
Her name's Tanya Acquiesta, and she wrote a book called Money Time, and it's actually a really good children's book.
43:10
But what was interesting is I always look at everybody's social media, and I noticed that she didn't have children's book author in her title or even part of her title.
43:22
And I asked her how Come you don't have children's book author as part of your Instagram title.
43:29
And she didn't have an answer other than she.
43:33
She hadn't really thought of herself as a children's book author, even though she was coming on a podcast.
43:38
Joe.
43:39
To her book.
43:41
And so within about 15 minutes after the call, she challenged me to go to her Instagram account and see what happened, and she added children's book author onto her description.
43:52
So it was kind of funny.
43:53
I think we all go through that.
43:56
I think so.
43:57
And it's interesting because I know just working with the marketing individual from Friesen Press, she really helped me kind of do that and build that identity and almost kind of take up that space and say, no, you're an
44:10
author.
44:10
Let's hashtag children's author on some of your feeds and your socials.
44:15
Yeah, that was.
44:16
That's terrific.
44:17
Now that you're a published children's book author, you're getting your feet wet into the sales and marketing and distribution side of it.
44:27
Talk to us about how you see the role of writing in your life, even though you still have a professional career.
44:34
How do you see the role as a children's book author in your life now?
44:39
So I see it, I don't know, almost twofold.
44:41
For me, it's really.
44:42
It's a creative outlet.
44:44
It's a way to, like I was saying, capture the magic of my children when they were young.
44:48
But I also see the other side of weaving in a bit of wisdom and just lessons learned.
44:54
But maybe in a way that's funny, that's light, that maybe will resonate one day with a child.
45:01
So I do see there's a bit of social responsibility that comes with it.
45:05
And looking at the messages and reflecting on, okay, here's a story, but what is the audience?
45:11
What am I trying to tell with it?
45:13
Yeah, but I kind of see it coming together, but being comfortable with straddling both, allowing that creativity to come through.
45:20
And then I always decide which one am I going to want to go with or not.
45:25
But I do see it as being both the fun, but also, yeah, a bit of that responsibility.
45:31
What kind of time are you devoting to writing?
45:34
Ironically, I spent a lot of time writing right up until probably January, and then I got a new job, and I haven't been as much, so I've taken a bit of a break, but I do need to get
45:46
back to it.
45:47
But I would take up to maybe half an hour to an hour or even whatever time I could just to put Ideas down, because I found it really invigorating, actually.
45:56
So I think this is a good reminder to get myself back to that.
46:00
You know what, Shannon?
46:01
I'm glad you mentioned that, because just even writing the core idea down is very important, because I actually call it.
46:11
Instead of brainstorming, I call it bookstorming.
46:14
And I'd like to tell you it was my original thought, but it was actually my oldest granddaughter, she convinced me that we should write a children's book, and we did.
46:24
She had me go buy a journal, and we sat down at a local coffee shop and we wrote our first story.
46:29
And it was all based on our adventures in the Rocky Mountains.
46:34
And then she said to me, oh, Papa, we've had so many adventures.
46:39
Can we just write the titles of the books down?
46:44
So, in other words, don't write the book, just write the book title down.
46:48
And so one day we went to the coffee shop.
46:52
We must have wrote 25 different book titles in our book series.
46:57
And that was all because of this young, creative, fertile mind.
47:02
And that's what she thought she wanted to do, was just all of these thoughts down before they ran away on us.
47:10
Oh, I'm smiling, too, because I almost see it as, like, that's the.
47:12
The place marker.
47:13
You've put them all down, and then.
47:15
Yeah, now they're there.
47:16
They're on the page.
47:17
You come back to it when you want.
47:19
But that is such a great idea.
47:21
I like that.
47:22
Thank you.
47:23
It's a lot of fun.
47:24
Her and I talk about all the time.
47:25
And actually, because of her, the other four grandchildren I have.
47:30
We've actually taken those titles and written the stories I was going to ask.
47:35
That was my next question.
47:36
So what happened with the titles?
47:37
Actually, we turned into 38 stories, so that's amazing.
47:42
If I ever find the Super Max or Lotto Max, then they'll all come to life.
47:49
Oh, that's wonderful.
47:50
But that is something so wonderful to create.
47:54
And it's.
47:54
When I look back, life was so busy when I was raising my boys.
47:58
But just what you're describing sounds so fun.
48:01
Like, especially in a grandparent kind of role.
48:04
Well, you hit it right on the button because I had a very active career.
48:07
Career.
48:08
And it was really.
48:10
When I had grandchildren, I had more time.
48:14
If you have grandchildren, you end up spending time with them and being able to do things that you wouldn't have done with your own children.
48:21
So.
48:21
Yeah.
48:22
And so think about this.
48:24
When you're a grandmother, you got one leg up on me, because you'll have already been A published children's book author who can inspire your grandchildren.
48:35
That is true.
48:36
You're right.
48:37
Advice for aspiring authors.
48:40
Shannon, what would you say to someone who's an aspiring children's book author?
48:46
I would say just really just to go for it.
48:49
And so I remember.
48:51
And even if you have an idea, you've put it on paper, you're not really sure, just start.
48:57
It doesn't have to be perfect.
48:58
For me, it was freeze and press I started with.
49:01
There were editors that helped ask questions, provided some clarity.
49:06
But I did sit on my idea for a good year, and I think it really was just not knowing how to do it, maybe thinking I could do it myself, but just knowing myself and then really being honest
49:17
with myself saying, I'm not going to get this done.
49:20
If I try to do it, I really need someone.
49:22
But for me, that's what I needed, is someone to walk me through it.
49:25
Other people might be more driven to explore things on their own, but I would say just start.
49:31
Whatever the idea is, write it down and just start.
49:34
And you will learn along the way is one.
49:37
The other thing is to be patient.
49:39
When I heard it was going to be a year, I thought, oh, no way, this can't take a year.
49:43
But it does.
49:45
But then just enjoying the process and the little milestones, getting that, that the written text just right, finding that illustrator, coming up with illustrations that really fit the book.
49:56
And then you start placing stuff together and looking at how that looks, and then it's the colors.
50:02
Which colors do I choose for this book?
50:04
Does this make sense?
50:05
And so it's kind of that.
50:06
So it's also enjoying that process along the way and just realizing, yeah, it's going to come out and you have an idea, but it's going to be twists and turns along the way.
50:15
But a product will come out, but at least, yeah, just to not hesitate, just to go for it would be ultimated by.
50:22
And what keeps you going as a children's book author?
50:26
For me, it's the fun.
50:27
I really.
50:28
I don't.
50:28
I just, I've.
50:29
I just find it really.
50:31
I don't know, maybe it's invigorating, but it's just, it's.
50:34
It's so fun being able to get into that mode of seeing things the way a child does.
50:39
Like the wonder, the humor.
50:42
There's such a lightness to it.
50:43
And I just find sometimes, at least for me, I'm so serious or so many things going on, adult things, but to be able to take those moments and to just.
50:53
I Find them just light and they make me laugh, really.
50:56
To be able to put something down, to chuckle, it's silly.
50:59
And to be able to share that is the other side.
51:02
And I think that's what the written work really is.
51:04
It's that ability to put it down.
51:06
And whether it be children or grandchildren or other children out there, it's just.
51:11
Yeah, it's to create something small and to be able to share it.
51:15
The word fun, because it reminds me of my middle granddaughter.
51:20
My oldest granddaughter.
51:21
My middle granddaughter helped me write our second book.
51:24
It's called Hijinks from the Big Head Folk Music Festival.
51:27
Middle granddaughter's name is Bailey and she chose a beaver as her character.
51:34
I interviewed her when we launched the book because it was our second book.
51:37
I interviewed her because she was one of the authors.
51:41
And I said to her, what did you enjoy about the process?
51:45
And she said, oh, I had so much fun.
51:48
So, hi.
51:50
Isn't that cool?
51:50
Whether you're 10 years or you've got two adult children now, fun is fun.
51:58
It is.
51:59
It really is.
52:00
Yeah.
52:00
That.
52:00
Oh, that's awesome that she was able to do that.
52:03
Yeah.
52:04
And just be so honest with her experience when it was.
52:07
Yeah, it was the nice thing about it.
52:09
I'll link to the episode 39, but just listening to her sharing the whole book writing process and the fun that she had in being involved, I was just thinking.
52:21
And when you were talking about that experience, like with my nephews, like storytelling too, but having involvement from my nephews and I don't know, like, to me, it was also something we were doing together.
52:33
And at that point, it was very much an oral storytelling, but it was.
52:37
I don't know, it.
52:38
I find sometimes too, with devices and kids having other interests, that it's hard to always find those common points of interest, especially as they get older.
52:47
But just storytelling seems like an avenue to potentially hold onto that connection.
52:53
Absolutely.
52:54
And it's interesting you should say that because the one thing with all the adventures that we had, the one thing nowadays is, of course, you've got this.
53:04
This camera in your hand all the time called a smartphone.
53:08
And a lot of our adventures were.
53:11
I'd take maybe six or eight pictures of an adventure that we would go on.
53:16
And that was the beautiful thing about it.
53:18
When my oldest granddaughter said, papa, we got so many pictures of our adventures on your phone.
53:25
Can't we look at them and turn them into stories?
53:30
And I thought, oh, that's pretty cool idea.
53:33
And so anyone out there who's got this technology, because most of us.
53:38
Unless Facebook or if you got an Apple phone.
53:41
Unless it pops up.
53:42
You know how it shows your memories.
53:45
Unless it pops up.
53:46
It does.
53:46
Yeah.
53:47
You never look at the pictures again.
53:49
And yet there's some incredible moments in your life and you forgot about them.
53:55
Yeah.
53:56
And I would say even.
53:57
I even do that sometimes.
53:58
Just scroll back over a season and I'm like, oh, wow, we did a lot.
54:02
Or like, yeah.
54:04
And just.
54:05
It's the moments.
54:06
I think that's what it is.
54:07
But you're right.
54:08
We have easy access to those moments, you know?
54:10
And now we can have fun turning them into children's books.
54:14
Yes, absolutely.
54:16
Encouragement for readers.
54:18
What would you say?
54:20
Why should readers buy your book?
54:23
I would say, for me, I find it funny.
54:26
I find poop funny.
54:27
I know my kids found poop funny.
54:29
So I think for me, it would be that it's just a silly story.
54:33
I would say, too, it's a story that there's enough.
54:36
It's a dynamic story.
54:38
There's enough going on to keep them interested, to want to flip the page and keep going.
54:43
And looking at the character Jared, as he gets more and more frustrated and then loses his mind, I think it's.
54:51
Yeah.
54:51
And I was gonna say, I'm sure all kids have been in there, so I think that's it.
54:56
The relatable aspect of the main character.
54:59
Then also, too, just the end and just finally getting his swim, but then his takeaway.
55:04
Never wanting to be the guy that poops in the tub.
55:07
I just think it's a package.
55:08
Absolutely.
55:09
And I got your next poop story.
55:11
Are you ready?
55:13
Okay.
55:13
What is it?
55:14
When I was much younger, my mom and dad ranched for a while, and we used to have the cow pies.
55:22
So there you go.
55:23
You got your next poop story.
55:26
That's right.
55:28
Oh, Shannon.
55:30
Final thoughts.
55:31
This has been a lot of fun.
55:32
It's great when we can talk about poop and have a good laugh.
55:36
So, final thoughts you'd like to share in your children's book writing journey?
55:42
No, I think I really appreciate the time being here with you.
55:45
It certainly allowed me to reflect on my journey.
55:49
I feel like I'm still new enough along the journey that I haven't really turned to reflect.
55:53
So happy to be doing some of this here, and I feel like it's also given me some good ideas of where I want to go next.
56:01
So, yeah.
56:02
Really happy at this moment to have been here.
56:05
I think we've covered a lot and.
56:07
Yeah.
56:07
Thank you.
56:08
Terrific.
56:08
Terrific.
56:09
Shannon, thank you so much for being a guest on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors Podcast.
56:15
Your generosity at time, your funny insights and your stories will significantly benefit aspiring authors and readers.
56:24
And we promise to provide our audience with links to Shannon's website, her social media, her book.
56:31
You've got to buy her book.
56:33
It's just a really good and if you've enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button to listen to our future episodes.
56:40
And feel free to share this episode with anyone inspired by or who enjoys hearing about Shannon and her children's book, Hoot Pooped in the Tub.
56:52
Thanks, Shannon.
56:54
Thank you.