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IFH 845: The Screenwriting Software Changing How Writers Work with Guy Goldstein · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
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  Speaker 2: forty five Cinema should make You forget You're sitting in
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  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
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  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: I am your humble.
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  Speaker 2: Host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
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  Speaker 2: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: My next guest is a very busy guy who graciously
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: came down to talk to me because I know he's
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: got ten million things going on. And one of the
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: things that we're going to talk about is writer Duet,
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: which is his program. So in this episode of the
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: Dave Wills Podcast, my next guest is a screenwriter and
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: again a software developer with guests Guy Goldstein. So it's
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: my pleasure Guy and I you know, I I've actually
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: used Writer's Duet. I actually use it right now as
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: my primary screenwriting software. I've pretty much gotten rid of
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: everything else, and I'm just you know, now I'm full
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: fledging to intrit writer right writer Duet. Sorry, I almost
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: I must misspoke there, but I'm full fledged into writer Duet.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: And honestly, it is the the best screamwriting software I've
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: ever used. Uh And honestly it's It's actually the one
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: thing the guy that actually held me back from actually
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: trying it, and I'm gonna admit this was the Cloud,
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: the idea of the cloud. I I'm one of those
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: guys because I actually, I know you're an IT guy too,
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: and I work on it as a day job. And
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: I'm one of those guys that likes to have stuff
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: on like a flash drive, you know. And what happens is,
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: whenever I hear stuff like the Cloud, I'm always like, well,
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: what if I'm at a coffee shop and I can't
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: get my script?
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? And so, but like when
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: I started using the whole program, I sort of realize, oh.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: Wait, there's an actual there's an actual like software that
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: can download and that actually solves the problem.
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's really important to me because obviously, when
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: you want to write, it doesn't matter where you are.
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: You have the idea and you need to get it out.
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: So offline mode was a really important feature, and having
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: desktop application, it seamlessly works online and offline, So if
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: you write without an Internet connection, you don't have to
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: worry about it. As soon as you connect again to
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: the Internet, you're going to automatically get that all your
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: change they're going to go up.
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: With the cloud.
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: If you have a collaborator, or if you just wrote
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: on a different computer or a different mobile device or whatever,
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: all your changes will automatically sink as soon as they
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: reconnect to the Internet.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: And that's what really sold me on the program.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: And so Guy, just so to get started, I want
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: to ask you know what brought you to create Writer.
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: Well, originally, the backstory is I was a programmer for
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: many years at an actor since I was about five
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: years old. I've been sort of doing improv and writing
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: for many years. And the first product I made for
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: writers was actually not Writer do It. It was a sporadroom
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: called Reapthrough. And let's just say it's largely a failure,
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: but it was a cool idea and still is and
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: we actually have as a plug in its sidewriter do
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: it right now. What it allows you to do is
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: have voice actors or focastic computer voices perform your script online.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: So instead of struggling to get twenty actors in a
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: room to do a readthrough, which I had done a
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: number of times for my own writing, I allowed you
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: just to have computer voices if you're just listening to
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: yourself in your car, just to like hear the script
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: instead of seeing a paper for one hundred times, and
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: then have actual actors performance see if you know it
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: connects the way you expected to or hoping it would,
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: or sometimes get better than you thought it would. And
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: then that was the original reason I got into software
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: for writers, literally because I wanted that product. I was
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: using the computer voices when I would drive, and I
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: used to live in Santa Barbara. I would drive to
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: LA which like a half two hours away, and so
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: I could listen to my script, make all my noise
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: on the voice recorder. When I got home, I would
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: apply all those notes, and then with the full cast
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: when I got to like really hear actors and so
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: it was all about myself and everything's about me almost
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: a theme in my life. So writer do really came from?
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: Admittedly wasn't the store I always wish it were. Which
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: is I ad a co writer? It's not true. I
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: did not have a co writer. No one would put
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: up with me that long. But I was really interested
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: in screenering software. I'd use Celtics when I started. Then
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: I started using file Draft, and as someone who is,
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: you know, making software for a living, there were things
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: that I didn't like about either one. But the number
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: one thing that was so obviously missing was the real
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: time collaboration, and that was the entire impetus for this.
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: It was just knowing that if you did have a
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: co writer, and so many people do, especially in the
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: professional range on nice I'm I'm not saying exact numbers,
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: don't remember it, but a very your high percentage of
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: feature films in Hollywood have co writers. And when you're
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: in TV, virtually every writer's room is a number of writers.
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: They don't necessarily write all the scripts together, but they brainstorm,
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: they collaborate on the outlines and on the structure, and
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: then when they're doing the punch up rounds you often
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: have everyone throwing out jokes or having ideas and improving
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: the script collaboratively. So realizing that was the big missing hole,
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: that's where I started with. And then once we had
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: the collaboration, a lot of people were switching to writer
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: what are using it as an anon on top of
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: the final draft Celtics which we were fully capatible with
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: where you could import their scripts and export them as well,
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: but we didn't have all the features that you needed
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: to make your only writing solution. So that was the
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: sort of iterative process of getting feedback from real writers
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: who wanted it to be their only writing sources so
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: much more convenient. But either had features that were in
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: final draft and they liked and then that was fine.
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: That made those or no one was doing but they
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: just seemed like really good ideas, like the infinite revision history,
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: so that doesn't come from anything of it, and a
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: writer so to say, hey, it wouldn't be cool if
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: I could see all my past versions of lines, and
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: I realized we could do that super easily, or I
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: could go back in time to a previous version of
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: the script, and so I took notes like that, Ideas
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: like that We're like, yeah, yeah, we can do that,
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: And so you could probably count ninety percent of the
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: features in writer Duet came from just launching a product
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: super early, getting all that feedback from real writers, and
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: implementing all their ideas as efficiently as so good.
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: You know, I've actually used Celtics, I used Final Draft.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: Do you remember Sophocles? Have you ever tried that software?
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: So the funny thing I had not tried because I
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: don't think I can find it. I don't know if
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: it's possible to find right now. But I actually maybe
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: I'm pretty correct on that one. But I had a
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: number of people say, oh, man, I remember this drougle
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: call Softly then apparently had a pretty good cult following
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: Field really liked it. So I don't know the backstory exactly.
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: I think there was the one guy kind of like
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: me at the time now where my company is staying
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: a little bigger, but one guy who had made that
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: and it's probably a similar person who was liked software
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: for himself and for other writers.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: And what happened was he he just basically sold the
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: company to I think Final Draft, and they basically bought
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: the company bought the company and then just shuttered it.
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: And basically, I I actually when he I think when
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: he sold it, he actually uploaded the code or something
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: right to site or something like that and somebody or
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: just basically, I think he just didn't make a big
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: stink out of somebody uploaded a pirated copy now because
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: he doesn't own it anymore and they're closing it down anyway.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: So I remember a friend of mine got gave it
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: to me on a on again here we go give
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: him flash drives. He gave it to me on a
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: flash drive and he goes, here, just use this, and
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: I use that for years and then I found and
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: then I used like I kind of like weaned in
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: the Celtics and then final drafts and then uh I
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: did like I've tried like fade in and and and
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: uh also, uh what is that scriventer?
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: And I know I'm into why they do that.
• 8:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a lot for people.
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: And it's funny because we always as writers should not
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: be worried about the software we're using, Like it's actually
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: stupid to obsess over it when the words on the
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: script come out the same either way, like that's a truth.
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: I am a person who make software and still believes
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: you should not obsess over it. But I believe you
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: should use the best tools for what you're doing every day,
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: hopefully or a large percent of your days. And I
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: feel like people organically just try different things because they're
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: just kind of curious what's out there. And in the end,
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: it doesn't really make a difference to your writing, to
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: the results of your writing, but it makes the difference
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: to your process, Like it makes it easier to put
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: words on paper. And if we do anything, for example,
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: if you're collaborating and you don't have to wait for
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: an email from your co writer, or if you're going
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: you want to see, man, this really funny line. And
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: Writer it has a feature where you can actually search
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: back in time and find any version of your script
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: with a line that maybe was removed or whatever at
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: some point and.
• 9:46
  Speaker 6: You're like, damn, I just can't remember what draft that's in.
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: I't want to look at my backups. With Writer, you
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: just find it. Little features like that are the things
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: that I think people not sho obsess over, but should
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: look for because it's going to actually make their writing
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: life better.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: So I got a two sides to where I'm like, yes,
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: you should not have religious wars over what software you use.
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: Whatever makes you happy is cool, but you should find
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: something that actually makes your writing more effective.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I concur because I know you know you and
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: I both work in it and I and really that
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: kind of gives us a different sort of view of
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: software and using it. But you know you, again, it
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: should be all about the writing. I agree one hundred
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: and ten percent. And I think that that's what sort
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: of stops a lot of people, because they sort of
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: they want to obsess. I mean, for instance, guy, I
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: had a friend of mine who actually used the Microsoft
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: word to write a screenplay and I actually said, are
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: you just a glutton for pashment? Like I said, how
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: would you even format that? And he actually had a method,
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: and the method was he would know no indents for
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: exposition slash action to in V for I think it
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: was characters. No, I'm sorry, it was like three indents
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: for like dialogue and four indents for I mean, my god,
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: I was like, how could you possibly do this without
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: like just like throwing your laptop out the window. But
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: you know, and that's why I like the screenwrinning software
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: that we've seen now because again with road du what
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: you can actually you know, you don't have to worry
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: about formatting it correctly, you know what I mean, all
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: that is done for you.
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's like the goal of any I mean
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: software in general, in my opinion, is whatever you're trying
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: to do, you should not realize you're even.
• 11:32
  Speaker 6: Using software, is my goal.
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: Like it just happens, like you just start hitting keys
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: and the right thing just happens as much as possible.
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: Like no one goes to a software, not no one,
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: but very few people go thinking, man, do I want
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: to spend two days learning this? Like you just want
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: to start using and start writing. And so I think
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: with what we do and what we try to accomplish
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: is making it as seamless as possible for a person
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: who's never even written a screenplay before. Like one of
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: the early decisions we made, one of the first ones
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: was almost I think everyone slash Almost everyone in the
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: other products have a dropdown menu where you select character
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: or dialogue over whatever, and of course you have tabin
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: enter etc. Shortcuts, But the drop down menu. First of all,
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: it's a community. To click twice doesn't really tell you
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: any information about what a slug line is or seen
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: a character why you would use one. And so one
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: of the first decision made has happened. Big buttons for
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: each one on the top of the scripts, and if
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: you mouse over them, it actually explains here's when you
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: would use this, and here's what it is.
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: And it doesn't get in your way.
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: It's not like we're wasting space because the buttons, you know,
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: line up really nicely and it doesn't kill you. But
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: little things like that, just trying to make it so
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: way a new writer can jump in or an old
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: writer can you know, more effectively figure out what they're
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: trying to accomplish. It's a big part of it, just
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: to make it easy so you're not spending time worrying
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: about the software.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's where it's basically like, okay, look you
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: see the interface and.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: You're like, look, let's just get down to writing.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah now, And we could sort of, you know, unconsciously
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: do this, you know, because that way you're just sort
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: of flowing into the story. And that's something too. I
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: want to ask you guy when you're coding and you're
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: you know, obviously you're you're a programmer. Did you find
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: that when you're coding and you're building something like writer
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: or do what is it similar to how you write
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: a screenplay at the same time? So basically when you,
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: I know, you've written screenplays as well, So when you're
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: sort of writing screenplays and then also you're coding, do
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: you notice if there's any sort of parallel to the two.
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: I need a huge amount.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: And I don't know if this is true universally, but
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: I see a lot of engineers, programmers, people are pretty
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: technical who are interested in screenwriting, maybe more so than
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: they'd be interested in other creative writing things, because there's
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: a lot of technical stuff that goes into a screenplay,
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: and not just technical in senseive production, like technical in
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: the sense of story structure that doesn't have to be there,
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: but tends to exist. And so as someone who with code,
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: you know, you have a very very big vision that
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: has to be broken up into tractable pieces, and each
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: those tractable pieces has to accomplish its role, and then
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: you say, well, how effectively can do that?
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: Can you make better in this thing? And that's how
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: I look at a scripts like, what is my big vision?
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: What am I trying to accomplish? Okay, we I'm trying
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: to tell a story about something important to me, whatever.
• 14:15
  Speaker 6: That is, How do I want to reflect that?
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: And then you kind of break it into well, what
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: are the individual components? How do the components lead up
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: to it? Like once there scenes, and how does each
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: scene contribute to the act or whatever the sequence? How
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: does it affect other characters who are engaged in the
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: story and each storyline Like if you're technical, each scene
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: could be considered a function, right, and each storyline is there,
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: each characters are variable that kind of goes through different functions.
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: I don't know, it is not analogous exactly, but I
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: do take that same idea of really high level structure
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: for a trying to accomplish broken too really small pieces.
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: And what I think's made me like an effective programmer
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: and the less effective writer is I like seeing little
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: tiny things. I like, I'll just to make this one
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: simple thing. I'll make this on that connect here. I
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: like the connections between two things. So even when I'm coding,
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: I have this like, oh man, if I make this speech,
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: that means we can do this other thing over here,
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: and I get really excited and like, what if we
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: did this? And it's the same with a screenplay, where
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: like whoa if this character picks up a knife in
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: this scene, that's foreshadowing to this other moment where they're
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: going to pick up a gun and you're like out
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: of whatever it is. And those connections are I think
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: what makes sometimes even they don't guess they get noticed
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: by the casual viewer of a movie or a person
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: looking at the product. Well, that's what makes really things
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: exciting when they connect perfectly, everything lines up the way
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: you wouldn't have realized that you're doing just one little
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: part of that.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I've actually looked at it into coding
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: and you know when i've i know a little bit
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: of HTML and stuff like that, but just very a
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: little bit. And when I started getting into it, I
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: kind of noticed there would be a parallel, the reason being,
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: you know, it's you have to actually you know, there's
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: breaks in the line, there's all sorts of stuff.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: And again I'm.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: Nowhere near as good as you in programming, but I
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: kind of I could see some kind of parallel. And
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: then when I saw writer's duet writer a duet. I'm sorry,
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: and you know it's kind of I just wanted to
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: make sure I asked that parallel question because I imagine
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: there will be at some point, because I mean, you're
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: obviously you know you're writing code, you're taking it away,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: you know, you're you're almost like creating a scratch pad,
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: you're you know what I mean, and then you're trying
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: to sort of you know, even when you go into
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: stuff like GitHub. You know, a friend of mine who
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: works for Apples was telling me, Hey, go in to GitHub.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: You'll see sample code. You can actually see how guys
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: did all this stuff, and you could actually take it
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: and try to make your own stuff with it. Still,
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: you know, it's still interesting stuff like that, And you
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: know that's why again I want to have you on
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: the show, because I think it's pretty interesting to talk about.
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the inspiration of most code is in some ways
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: other cod Right, you have an idea, you see something
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: in one product and you think, wow.
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: That'd be really cool if I apply, like I hear.
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: Even it's funny, but I spend all my time in
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: a programming text out of there, and there are features
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: I've been plented or we've been planted in writer Duet
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: then either came from a text editors playing with that
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: I thought was cool, or personally, I'll give you an example.
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: I constantly have like something I'm editing in code, and
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: then I have to jump somewhere else to see how
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: it works, or I can remember how they connect or whatever,
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: and there's a feature week doesn't it Either it doesn't
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: exist or I just keep too stupid to find it
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: in my text editor that.
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: I want to be implementing in writer Duet for.
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: Writers because I needed it so much, which was a
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: pin drop, which is let's literally drop a pin in
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: a location. You can drop as many as you want,
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: and then I can read somewhere else and jump back
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: to the previous location without what I actually do my
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: text edge, I hit a key and I delete it
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: so I can press undo and jump back there. But
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: that's pay in the neck. So with pins, it's literally
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: a feature that I just wanted myself for coding to
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: make it easy to find. You know, maybe three or
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: four locations that are all really related. So I dropped
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: pins and you just wanted them to jump through them,
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: so I don't have to constantly find where I was.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: So, what were one of the what was one of
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: the toughest things to implement in the writer a duet
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: from from you know, having it out there and from
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: screenwriters obviously asking questions, you know, maybe asking for certain features.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: So what was there any that come to mind which
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: were the toughest to implement?
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, one that we did relatively recently, and I can't
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: say it wasn't worth it, but oh my god, what
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: a freaking disaster the time was. We spent like three
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: months on what I think is actually not the most
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: important thing we've done, which is really cool. It's hard
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: to say it was worth three months, but you can
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: in writer do you had have parallel columns, and we
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: already had done dual dialogue where you could have multiple
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: characters talking at once. We hadn't done this fully expressive
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: multi column layout where you could have page breaks in
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: the middle. They got parallel pages didn't really matter, And
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: so you can write parallel scenes. For virtual reality, you
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: could have different directions where you literally had two scenes
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: going on at once. So if your camera's looking one
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: way or your character is looking one way, it see
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: one thing different another. And it's also good for documentaries
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: where you do. It's called audio visual layout, where you
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: got the audio on one side and the visual on
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: the other and that way for like voiceovers and things
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: like that. You can mind it up correctly because this,
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: you know, single, you know, non parallel, you'd have to
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: write while video is going on and voiceover whatever it is.
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: So the parallel stuff was actually super complicated. It was
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: one of those things that in my head was like,
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: oh man, it's gonna take like a month, and I
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: thought that was bad.
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: And it was. It was brutal. But yeah, there have
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: been a few things.
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: I think the things that we've actually done that have
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: been maybe the most successful and impactful haven't been that hard. Actually,
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: they've been things that made sense and you can kind
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: of think about how they'd fit. And it was as
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: a programmer, and the same thing for a screenwriter, I
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: think is you have to find things that fit into
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: the vision pretty well, where if you're trying to accomplish something.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: And I'm I'm guilty of the opposite of this, the
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: bad version where you get distracted and you think, oh man,
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: this would be so cool if we had this one
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: little thing, or we could do this feature, and maybe
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: it doesn't serve the product or the screenplay, even though
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: it's a cool idea, and you have to kill your darlings.
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: You have to not.
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: Necessarily delete features, although sometimes you do, but you have
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: to make decisions that serve the bigger vision instead of
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: necessarily being the coolest thing you could do that moment
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: or the best idea, because in the end, you could
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: do anything in your screenplay. You could make the absolute
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: every detail exactly the way you wanted it, every joke,
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: every whatever. But how many years are you going to
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: spend on that screenplay? Will you ever release it to anybody?
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: Will you ever actually make it? If that's your goal,
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: which hopefully is for a lot of people, so I
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: think you have to kind of you say this, won't
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: try to accomplish this is how I'm going to get there.
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: These are the things that fit with that vision. And
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: mostly that doesn't turn out to be too hard because
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: it all kind of works together to make what you want.
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: So that'd be ten different things that don't really fit.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: And you know, as we talk also about all the
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: features and stuff like that, I know, you know, writer
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: or du what Three point oh is actually launching tomorrow,
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: which is June the first, but when this comes out
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: will be a few days after. But but June the
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: first three point oh is coming out, so you know,
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: I know there's a ton of new features coming out
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: for it. The biggest one is the mobile app, which
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: I am huge, huge, huge about And I know a
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: lot of people go, how can you write the screenplay
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: on a phone? And I say, well when when? When
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: most phones now on the size of iPads, you know,
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: it's kind of easy, right.
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's actually really interesting. It's just to clarify, we're
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: coming out, you.
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: Know, let's call it the public beta. We've been in
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: private beta. We're crying of leppy. People join in tomorrow
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: and thereafter we'll we'll see how long that phase goes
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: before we kind of roll out every single person. But
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: to answer your question, like about what it is to mobile,
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: I don't think it's a ideal writing platform for me,
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: although I should take it back because mobile doesn't mean
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: just phones, it means iPads, it means Android tablets, et cetera.
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: So having a mobile you on your iPad actually works
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: pretty well. A lot of people were telling me they
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: were even do it on their iPad. We're just making
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: a better experience as an app. But for me personally,
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: I don't think I would write an entire screenplay. But
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: I think we've maybe talking about earlier or whatever. But
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: when you have inspiration, you want to put it down somewhere.
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: And if you can just have your screenwrin program with
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: you no matter where you are and always dying down ideas,
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: making notes, reading scripts on your phone in just an
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: easier way, that's I think the ideal use case. If
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: you want to sit down there and write two hundred
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: page script in twenty page skipt or whatever on your phone,
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: God bless, but I wouldn't do that probably.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I find it's good though, if you ever have
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: to actually just like if you're writing on your laptop
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: for instance, and you have to go out somewhere and
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: you know you're in line somewhere and you're like, oh
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: crap that idea, you know, and you can actually just
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: pop open your screenplay we've read a line or two.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: The reason I like that better than doing opening something
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: like let's say, ever note is because again, everything's in
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: one place now, yeah, and I don't have I'm.
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: Sorry, isai. Yeah, everything' SYNCD up in real time, so
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: you don't have to worry about did you transport that
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: scene in did you lose some work or whatever?
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because then when I get home, I have to
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: you know, open up every note, make sure I find that,
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: put it back in there, and now go Okay, now
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: we're back to where we were with. That's why I
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: like the idea of everything in once one place. That way,
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: I'm not constantly bouncing around the different apps and stuff
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: like that.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: So, and I know you were.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: Talking about it's going into public beta, So can you
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: talk about like some of the other features that are
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: going to be you know, seen inviter.
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: Du at three Yeah, you know, so there there are
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: a bunch, but at the high level, like the big things.
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: One of the coolest ones I think is that we've
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: been plented what we're calling drafts or branch drafts uh.
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: And so the branches allow you to First of all,
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: you can already export an old version of Right to
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: Do It anytime you go back to like three days
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: ago at four fifteen pm. You can just find any version. Ever.
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: But with branches, you can go back in time and
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: you can actually keep writing from that in the same script.
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: So without like necessarily.
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: Opening a whole new document having two versions of your script,
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: you have two branches within your script. And so what
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: this lets you do is first of all, easily jump
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: to any point just see what it looks like, but
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: also have two different ideas and you can say, hey, well,
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: you know what I went out to start for last week.
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: It didn't necessarily work there I wanted it to. I'm
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: going to write some other stuff and then maybe you
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: wind up merging it together. You can kind of like
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: merge branches if you need to, or you can have
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: a different version that you share your script, or somebody say,
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: he which one do you like better? Without having these
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: two manual documents that you have to deal with. You
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: know these branches, and what we're doing this is that's
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: the current condition in WT three, but the system is
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: going to actually allow you to do much more in
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: this So we're going to allow you to do, for example,
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: we're calling ghosts about where you can for example, you
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: have a co writer and you have an idea that
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: isn't necessarily ready for your co writer to see, but
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: you don't want to be writing another script because you
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: want to see what they're doing. All their stuff is
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: let's say it ready for live, but your stuff is
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: more private at the time. So you can go into
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: ghostbug where you're getting all their updates, but they're not
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: seeing what you're doing in this branch, and then you
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: can toggle back to the main branch and right from
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: there and they see it, and then you can taggle
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: back to your ghost branch. And this is actually a
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: very common Like I said before, we actually take ideas
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: from the world of technology and programming. So this is
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: basically how GitHub common repository for programmers works, where you
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: can have multiple versions of your code. And I'm working
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: on a branch that is potentially buggy right now, but
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: I'm going to make sure it works by the time
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: i merge it with the main branch. And so along
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: Terio that in the screenplay I think is really interesting
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: even for yourself. So you can have a producer's draft
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: that you turn in and then you can kind of
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: go off and write in a different direction, and then
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: your producer gives you notes You're like shoot out and
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: think it's this whole other storyline. Well, I'll fix their
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: notes now, but you don't have to have now two
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: different copies of the script at all automatically can merge
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: anytime you want, so that's probably one of the bigger things.
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: And you also new stuff from notifications inside the website
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: and app itself. We have let's see some other quot
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, we have a tagger. We're actually watching our
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: own Tiger finally, which is pretty heavily requested feature. And
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: Tiger is going to do two things. So if you're
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: familiar with the filegraph Tiger, it allows you to tag props, characters, etc.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: So you could do call sheets and you can set
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: up for scheduling, etc. But what we're doing is that
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: and we're letting you tag based on plot points, so
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: you can have a story, v story, et cetera.
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: Tag those, and.
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: Then you can filter just one set of tegts so
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: you can say, hey, just show me the a story
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: and everything else in your script that does not match
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: that tag is hidden and you just seeing one storyline
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: and you edit it. It's going into the main document,
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: but you're seeing one view. And when I said before
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: about like you have to make sure things fit together
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: in a vision, where our vision is for screenwriting is
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: actually really the branches and the tags I think those
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: kind of tie really well together. Where you can have
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: any number of versions of your scripts, you can go
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: off in any number of directions, and you can reduce
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: any single direction to the part you're looking for, the
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: part that you're interested in. So if you just want
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: to see one character's dialogue, you can pull up that
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: one character style. They just want to see the scenes
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: of characters in, or the lines that have some you know,
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: prop and or whatever, you can find whatever you're looking
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: for and simplify your script to just those pieces. You
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: don't have to see hundred and twenty pages all the time.
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: You can look at three pages that are just the
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: parts relevant.
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: To you.
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: And see stuff like that is really really cool. I
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: also like that ghost mode, yeah, because you know, and
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: the whole idea of collaboration too. I also like the
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: idea of even if you don't have a co writer,
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: if I have to show it to somebody anyway, rather
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: than email, I can just post it on there, send
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: them a link and you know what I mean, and
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: I don't have to worry about here's the script and
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: then you know what I mean, And then you know
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: they're going to go, oh, I don't have Adobe Reader
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: or whatever, you know what I mean, it's stuff like that.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: Is is also I've noticed that over the years, like
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: little things like that, but they add up. You know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: It's not just one little thing, right, it's ten thousand
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: little things set that add up to this huge amount
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: of time. So and then again obviously when you're using
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: all these different features, and then when you actually are
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: really really getting into it, I mean that's when you
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: can actually again like we're saying it, just you can
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: subconsciously start doing a lot.
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: Of this stuff.
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and then the reader one is a good one
• 28:25
  Speaker 6: in general.
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: We haven't done exactly the version I want for this,
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: but we have a read on only mode which allows
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: you know, me to invite you to my script and
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: you can't edit it, but you can add notes. And
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: why that's convenient versus the PDP is the notes to
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: be done in line where they actually are relevant, so
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: you can go through like like well I have no
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: idea what's going on or why did she say this?
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: Or wow, this is really finning or whatever you have
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: to give, and so you can put that directly in
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: the script, and then if I have several people reading it,
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: I can see all the notes in one place. We
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: have another future version of this plan where we're going
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: to make it like right now, I think it's not
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: meant for if I'm going to send it out to
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: a thousand people and just get all their feedback. It's
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: not really built for that. It's more meant for a
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: producer or a few like important people to the script.
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: We wanted to eventually is that version where it essentially
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: replaces a PDF where I send out my script. Any
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: number of people. They can all come into the script.
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: They can all read it. They can't necessarily see each
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: other who else is there? They can they can see
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: each other people, each other's comments. They just make their
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: own you see the collection of everything. But it's kind
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: of a cheap way to share your script with getting
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: a logial's feedback collected into one place. That's that's the
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: vision on that teacher.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: So so, guy, have there ever been anybody that that
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: you've you've heard about who've used writer to what?
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Who's just who you've heard about who's just been you've been.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: Blown away by like any like uh, any like famous
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: people or anything like that where you're like, oh my god,
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: they're using you know, my program.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: We would have thought right.
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: It happens all the time, and it's it's interesting exactly
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: what you said it because I have no reason to know.
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: I don't, you know, look at who's using that produglostly.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: Sometimes I find out because the email me or whatever.
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: I'm like, that name sounds familiar, jumping to you go
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: like wait a second, h So we've had that number
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: of times. Usually, I says, not insulting to everybody else.
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: I can tell when they're a professional, just based on
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: the questions they ask, like what they're writing to me about.
• 30:25
  Speaker 6: I'm like, okay, you know.
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: You clearly are doing something real and I look, I'm like,
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: you're like sure, runner. We just found out recently. I
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: was on a was here in conference of Pittsburgh on
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: a panel with the creator of Downward Dog, which is
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: a new ABC show, and just coincidence that we were
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: happy to be there, I guess together and I mentioned
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: from writer to do it.
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: It's like, oh yeah, we just write to do it.
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: And I'm like, oh.
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: Cool, I know, you know, would never have found that
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: out sat the appen to be there, and so that's
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: some pretty big show. TV shows have used us. The
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: next Spider Man movie coming out for Man Coming was
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: written on Redue Action. Really excited about whether premature movies
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: have come out, But the truth is, I don't even know. Like,
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: for all I know, there are dozens or hundreds of
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: TV shows and movies that are just using it. Like
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: we found out another TV show recently had care of
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: the name. Even that we were talking to you were
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: trying to convince them to use it. We thought, we
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: found out they were already using it, like okay, let's
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: a short conversation. So so it comes off a lot,
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: and hopefully there's a tipping point where we're no longer
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: We're still gonna be excited that they're using it, but
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: we're not gonna be surprised. We're gonna be like, yeah,
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: of course you using it. It's just like final draft
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: really is the industry standard at this time, Like most
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: TV shows, most feature films are written on it. We
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: you know, we don't think that's going to be the
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: case at some point hopefully in the pretty near future.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and you were of a good point too.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: You know. The new Spider movie is using red duet.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: So you know, one of the old arguments was, well, hey,
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: you have to use the industry standard, which we cause.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: Reason is is because.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: Everybody can't have a different page five or a different
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: page twenty. And also because this is what everyone uses
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: to sort of break down the script. You know, this
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: is what the the the prop department has to go
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: through the script and find out what props you know
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: what I mean, and they have to break everything down.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: You have to break a schedule out of this script.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: And as you know, as this happens, So when when
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: someone something like this Spider Man movie is using where duet,
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: you know, are you ever planning on actually just sort
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: of making it? Also, I know this isn't about screenwriting,
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: but making like a a sort of it almost like
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: a feature that would help you with like you know,
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: making like day out of days and stuff like that.
• 32:36
  Speaker 6: So the easy answer is no, And there's a good
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: reason for this. Number one is we don't really I
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: don't know.
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: I don't use scheduling stuff because I'm not a good
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: enough writer that I've been produced, but I don't feel
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: qualified to make that software.
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: So and I actually feel like.
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: Other people have done a reasonable job. I know some
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: people who are making products like that now new versions.
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: Actually learned about one today that I had heard of
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: before that's doing it apparently doing a reasonable job on
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: the cloud.
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: So I'm not.
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: Convinced that there's a need for us to do that,
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: and we don't want to create redundant software just because
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: us doing it. If we can actually make something better,
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: we're going to make it better if we can take
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: a process that is just really not good. And the
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: other thing is we think there's so much more, like
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: I don't know what other people see in the screenwriting world,
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: but we see so many features that could be added,
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: and so much stuff that we can do in terms
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: of outlining terms of struction. And they're not like not
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: to be ridiculing other products, but there are some competitive
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: screen warning products that will come out with things that
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: I think are just there to have a feature with
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: a name so you can advertise it. And I don't
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: think that actually help writers necessarily some mind, But I
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: want to create stuff that actually makes creativity more fluid,
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: more engaging, more collaborative, and that's the stuff worry about,
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: Like the technical stuff on the scheduling and budgeting side.
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: We just did introduce Tiger. So now you can like
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: tag up your script and P three where you can
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: then import it into a scheduling program and go from there.
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: But I don't know. I'm not saying this is the end,
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: but my opinion is we're about as late.
• 34:18
  Speaker 6: In the production cycle we want to go. We want
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: to go earlier.
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: We want to help people in their initial creativity. Like
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: we were just talking to one of our users at
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: this really cool production tablets studio in town in Austin
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: where we are, and he was talking about how he
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: used it to but he does not use River actually
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: for this. He uses other products to write a pitch
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: for his treatment for his stuff before it goes to producers.
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: And I was like, well, that's really interesting, Like that's
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: an interesting problem of how how do you construct that
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: in a really efficient way, because he told me, like
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: you might spend a week just preparing this sort of
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: pitch material that isn't necessarily going to be used ever. Again,
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: it's more just to get peal of the idea than
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: he's going to go right the script, Like if we
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: could help you do the part that is artistically interesting
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: I E.
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: Or e g. A S.
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: But the character breakdowns, the plot stuff, the logoins. Those
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: are helpful as a creator, but the stuff that makes
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: it look cool, like visually, that's just something that anyone
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: creative or not could kind of or not creative, a
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: writer or not could make. What if we can help
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: you formalize some sort of creative stuff like like the
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: character breakdowns pre writing even so, yeah, I think that's
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: the vision. How do we help more and then beyond that, Honestly,
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: we're going to do stuff that goes beyond screenwriting. We're
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: just interested in creative writing and creativity in general, like
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: how can we help people have their ideas and express
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: them faster and more efficiently in a more you know,
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: it's that engaging way. You know.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: One feature that I would like to pitch Guy is
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: you know, and this is very this is just you know,
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: pie in the sky take it forward.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: It's worth is. I always would like to see a
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: more involve the scratch pad.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: And what I mean by that is is a scratch
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: pad that it's almost like it can format, but it
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: also it meaning it's it's very flexible with what it
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: can do, and you know, it's kind of like future rama.
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: There's a funny quote in futur rama. You know, there
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: was a talk about, hey, it was great than today
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: scientist invented magic. But I know it's kind of I'm
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: kind of what I'm describing is like this all encompassing
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: uh but uh, you.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Know, perfect thing.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: But but I I just want to say more engaging
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: scratch pad. I remember using scratch pads before, and uh,
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: you know, I I think it was honest to god Sophocles,
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: but uh, that's just something that that I nothing.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: I mean like final drafts.
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: And uh and fade in and and uh yeah, Scrivener
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: and all those they haven't done that anywhere near as well.
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: And honestly, that's what an idea when it pitch to you,
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: was just a more involved scratch pad where basically, you know,
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: you can.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Sort of let your ideas flow a little bit better.
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: Uh, because sometimes you know, when you're actually in that script,
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: you know, some people have a lot of like they
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: don't want to actually write a scene out. They rather
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean, because it almost feels permanent
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: in that if you're doing the script. I know, sometimes
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: how you know how writers sometimes think it's almost like,
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: oh my god, I can't do to the lead button,
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: so uh that that's just one of the features that
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: I would just like to see. And honestly, uh, it's
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: if if you if I don't see a guy, believe me,
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: I I understand, but uh, but that would be just
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: be cool to see.
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: Well, good news for you, so go right.
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So actually one of the other features, it's uh
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: to me is not a huge one, but maybe it's
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: a lot peop Hopefully it will be really more important
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: than I realized.
• 37:37
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: Is so the two features what is existing, and that's
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: the one or will exist in W three, which is
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: you can actually have a multiple scripts, any number in fact,
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: open in one single document. So you have your main
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: script editor and then you have these little floating windows
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: and you can open and you know, probably there's a
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: practical limitation of how you want to have opened, but
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: you have any number uh sitting on the side, and
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: they can be like scratch pad documents. You can put
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: whatever you want to each one of them. You can
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: have one where you put like character stuff, or you
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: put scenes that you're not sure about. You can have
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: one that you use for like just internal notes, like
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: a personal notes section, whatever you use them for. And
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: so you have all those scripts open in this little
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: like dragonable section that you can move around, so you
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: can structure your screen however you want. So that is
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: coming in version three, and that's fully it's a screenplay.
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: Writing is the same, right to add just a sort
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: of mini version of it, and you can write, you know,
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: your text or notes, or you can actually write full
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: scenes with character and dialogue, et cetera. And then the
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: other thing. And this is the one that is to
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: me like the big three point whatever, three point five,
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: you know, whatever nover you want to call. It's not
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: quite big enough for four, let's say, but is a
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: total revamp of how people do outlining and scratch patch,
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: just like maybe you even more thinking of than the sort
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: of mini editor one. And what that is to me
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: and this is like I got into that before. It
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: is the idea of filtering. So right now you can
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: struct these tags in cyber or you tag this is
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: a story, you start whatever, and you can filter out
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: just the content you want. Well, what if you applied
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: those filters in a sort of broadway where we say, hey,
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: these are outline notes or these are scratch pad scenes
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: or whatever they are, and you could freely write those
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: right inside your script, but you knew they weren't real.
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: You knew they were just like virtual.
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: They were tagged as sort of sigurgated, and maybe by
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: default you hit those, or maybe by default you just
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: saw those, whatever mode you were in of looking at
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: your script, and then the outliner could filter your script,
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: say hey, just show me the outliner notes for CNA,
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: next one, scene, B, S and C. And these are
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: all actual real text editors. And so the idea is
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: you can write whatever you want freely, and you just
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: use these tags to explain essentially what they are tag
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: semantic meaning to you, it's your thing, and then you
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: filter in and filter out the pieces that you do
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: or don't want.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: So I think that's exactly what you know. Those two
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: things I think kind of combined to be what you're
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: really looking for, which is the freedom to just put
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: ideas down as quickly as you have them without the
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: feeling of now they're permanent. And even the opposite another
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: future where we come out really soon is so when
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: you're writing the script, you delete something and that actually
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: feels really permanent as well. As not with you have
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: the interior vision history, you can always go back keep
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: and say, oh man, there's a great line with tacos,
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: and search for tacos and you find that line that's
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: that's been.
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: Deleted, but it still feels permanent.
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: And so what we're gonna do is have a feature
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: where like just then you know, within a keystroke whatever,
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: the keystroke you come up with is delete and safe
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: to like repository or whatever. And we'll just have that
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: little document that's you know, maybe visible, maybe not, but
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: just hiding on the side that's keeping track of all
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: this content that you, uh, we're deleting. But then you
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: don't have to worry about it being gone. You have
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: this other second script being created as you go with
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: all your just ideas that we're working. So I think
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: that's what you what you're leading to. I think is
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: what we're going for as well.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because that is what I was going for.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: Because when you're writing, and you know, you're you're doing
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: all this sort of thing, You're you're writing all these
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: scenes out and you're writing ideas and you're doing this
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: and you're kind of sometimes you're jumping back and forth.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: You kind of don't want to put a scene in
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: there that might not fit later on, because then you're like,
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: later on you're like, oh, what the hell was this thing?
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: And then it's kind of you know, it's stuck in there,
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: and if you again, it feels permanent. So I think
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: with a with a more of like a flexible scratch pad,
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: that's what I was going for.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: But but see, guy, you read my mind. You know
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: exactly what I was going to ask for.
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, this is the short version is there
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: are two things we've learned. One is being a writer ourselves, like,
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: we're all the team is a five full time, two
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: part time now at plus two dogs so they get
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: to have your lifting. So we're all like writers and
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: filmmakers are programming team as all edge creative already can film.
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: So because of that we understand, like, you know, not
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: necessarily before you have the idea, but as soon as
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: you said, and I'm like, I know why you want that,
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: and I don't just know the technical implementation, I kind
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: of understand how you use it. I can think of me, oh, well,
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: what if you do this other thing where I can
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: take suggestions because we're also super interested in listening to users.
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: And because of that, like not to say, you know,
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: it's not really when anyone comes up with it, but
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: we just sort of wait. Sometimes when we hear one
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: person suggests the feature, we're like a good idea, and
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: then we just kind of wait, and then you know,
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: there's another other person. It's just the same thing, like okay,
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: that's interesting. And just because in the beginning, I would
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: just do everything because we had pretty limited features. So
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: I started four years ago so I could do it all.
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: It was just me at the time. So it's pretty
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: easy to quickly iterate as you bigger, we don't necessarily
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: have that liberty. We have too many users to listen
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: to every single feature, but we just sort of track. Hey,
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: people keep asking for exactly what you're talking about, like
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: a scratch pad and not winer a better ways to
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: do that, and we're going to you know, probably have
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: hundreds more features suggested by users over the next six
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: months or so. And so it's just you know, keep coming.
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: So you got other ones, you know, anyone you and
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: everyone listening. We're here to not assay solve the creative process,
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: because I don't think that means anything, but We're here
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: to help people be creative in a way that that
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: works for that whatever that means.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: And you know, and then that is fantastic.
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: And you know, because guy, we've been talking for about
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe forty minutes roughly. You know, is there
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: anything that we didn't discuss that you may wanted to
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: talk about, or anything you want to say to sort
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: of put a period at end of this whole conversation.
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: No, I mean, ultimately, I think the thing that I
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: want people to take away is they should find where tools,
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: you know, make them more effective at what they're doing.
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: If you're writing and you're happy with your writing process,
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: I ou't have a problem if you want to use
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: Celtics or anything else or found found draft. I just
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: think that if you're not happy with the process, there
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: are things that annoy you. If you're like, yeah, well
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: it's fine, but it's not if it doesn't excite you
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: every time you open up those any product, maybe that's
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: not the right one for you. You want something that inspires
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: you more creative then and if we don't do that,
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: then we're not the right ones either. It's just you know,
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: we always want to feel to find that that perfect
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: perfect tool for their use.
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and again, you know, I think writer du weet
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: is a perfect tool because again even guys like me
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: who was afraid of the cloud, because again if I'm
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: at somewhere and I can't download that script, but then
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: again you solve that with the app.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: And I want to give.
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: A shout out to to Mike Berman, who's actually been
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: on the podcast before. And guy, you know you and
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: I both know Mike. He runs the screenwriters who can
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: actually write Facebook group. He is the one who actually
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: got me into writer Duet and he's he was the
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: one who said, you know what, they have an app
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: and it actually solved all those problems.
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: I gotta say no shot to Mike. I hope he's
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: listening to a Mike. And this is to all our users. Actually,
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: like we do no marketing. If you want to like
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: Google shooting right software, we're finally the first page now,
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: but you'll never see an ad. I mean, right now
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: you see an ad for writer Duet. And we don't
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: do like Facebook ads. We've tried a few. We'd probably
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: spend a couple hundred bucks on Facebook ads just to
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: see what happened and the answer was nothing. We don't
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: market and the reason is Final Draft is really good
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: at marketing, Like they've done a great job, and if
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: I had to, like, if I could be as good
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: as they are marketing, I would adjust it.
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: So we don't.
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: We just sort of say, hey, we're making what we
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: think is the best product. And people like Mike just
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: really got attached to it because he was using it. It
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: helped him in some ways and he could honestly recommend
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: it and he did, and that group, I don't know
• 45:38
  Speaker 5: what the percents are, but it's pretty high percent of
• 45:40
  Speaker 5: writers in that group use writer Duet because Mike introduced
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: it to them and then they really liked it, and
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: they would then in the next person who're asked, ay,
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: you're having a problem with the screen program or I'm
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: just curious what's out there, all the other members would say, oh, yeah,
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: I use it.
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: Too, and they would get excited.
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: And you know, it's a compliment to us, some self compliment,
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: I guess, but it's really a test to me how
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: how people in the screenery community are willing to not
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: only give back to us by getting their future ideas,
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: but help each other by you know, to me advertising
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: with the best product and I guess thank you to
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: everyone who does that, and also please continue. That's my
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: personal one because in the end of the day, like
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: writers are here to help out their writers. That's why
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: you get this podcast. I'm guessing it's not for all
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: the money they pay you to do it. You just
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: here like to help with creative community, and that's what
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: we're here for as well.
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, honestly, guy, the whole story behind this podcast is,
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: you know, I do a lot of creative work. I
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: got stifled and right around twenty fourteen, I decided to
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: start this podcast for a lot of reasons. And I'm
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: sure all the listeners who've actually listened since episode one,
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: which there actually are people as shocked as I am,
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: they've actually they're probably saying, no, don't tell this whole
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: story again, so I'll spare everybody from telling it again.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: But that was the idea though.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: The short of it is it just to do something
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: creative and something fun. And each week that's why I
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: say this, this is like a film school, an audio
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: film school, because each week I'm bringing in a different
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: person who has an entirely different background screenwriters, producers, directors, actors,
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: marketing people.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: I mean you name, and I've had him on the show.
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, I've had Kasie Ovis on here, who was
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: the executive producer Dallas Buyers Club.
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: I mean it's just like, I mean, he said, yes, why,
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: I have no idea, but I was like, okay, I've
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: had Mark Binstock, who's a producer for m Night Shamalan stuff.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just been you know, I mean, and
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: then I've just been blown.
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: Away by all the talented people like yourself, guy, who
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: I've had on this podcast. And it is a small
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: world too, because you both know Mike Bierman, so it's
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: a it's just such a small world and it's just
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: getting smaller.
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, writers like writers are so isolated sometimes just that.
• 47:48
  Speaker 6: We don't know this from writing.
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: You kind of get in that mode and you're lonely.
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: Don't stay in there. That's my biggest recommendation, the kind
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: of the five communities. Find Facebook group plus we can
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: actually write as one. There's a really good credit community
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: for screenwriters where it's even if you never contribute anything,
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: just I go there obsessively admittedly, and even sometimes I like,
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: see you writer, do you have questions on there? And
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: I just kind of wait and sometimes see if anyone
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: else is going to answer this before I do.
• 48:18
  Speaker 6: I just really enjoy.
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: The communities that have been formed around such an isolated
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: activity aus writing, and people are willing to get back
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: and contribute, so hopefully everyone gets to participate in those.
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that is a very good Facebook page too,
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: And it's not very very common to actually get a
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: really awesome Facebook page where everyone's actually helping each other out. Usually,
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: as you know, guys social media, if you have like
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: a Facebook page, it usually ends up in like some
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: kind of flame war where it's.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: Like people fighting over absolutely nothing.
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: And you know, because I mean, I've seen that tons
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: of times, you know what I mean, And that's why
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: I've kind of stayed away for a lot of those groups.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: But that one group is amazing, as you've been actually right,
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: and I'll linked that in the show notes as well.
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: But but guy, it's been excellent having you on and
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: where we will find you out online.
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: You can find us on Twitter at writer Duets I
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: think Facebook slash writer duet or whatever the url is
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: for a group. Yeah, you'll see me around. I'm pretty
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: I'm pretty out there, so if you catch me in
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: the Reddit form or experience can actually write. You'll find
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: me pretty fast, so don't show saying hi anyone out there,
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: and I will.
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: Link to all of guys links in the show notes
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: as well as a link to check out wur duet
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: guy Guy Goldstein. I just want to say thank you
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: so much for coming on.
• 49:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you again for having me. It's a really blasted,
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: really good time.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at any filmuffo dot
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: com forward slash eight forty five and if you have
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: really helps us out lot.
• 50:00
  Speaker 6: Guys.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you again so much for listening to guys as always,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive, Stay safe
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast at
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
• 50:15
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• 50:18
  Speaker 1: dot com.