Latest / Yaron Brook Show / In the Mind of JD Vance | Yaron & Nikos Dialogues

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In the Mind of JD Vance | Yaron & Nikos Dialogues · Yaron Brook Show

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Fundamental principles out of freedom, rational, self interest.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: And individual one. Well, this is the urn every show. God,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: all right, everybody walk into your one book show. Well
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: you an Nikos show and that we do every week
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: in a little bit afternoon one Saturday and Satura Sunday.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: But I think I think we'll manage. Hey, Nikos, how
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: are you well?
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Of all the preps I've done for Amy Soul, this
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: was the least pleasant, and actually I should ask for
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: a raise. You're doing unpleasant work. I'll give you two
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: examples how I spent my week. One is having to.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Go through endless discussion between Jay Evans and Zor Rogan
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: on the difference between demons, ghosts, and aliens.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Did you know that a demon is a different from
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: a ghost, but aliens could be demons and ghosts.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: So they spent something like five minutes, and Jay Divan's
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: use the term there's a conceptual difference between a demon
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: and a ghost.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: So this is how a concept.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: A conceptual difference.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: That's how he put it, a conceptual difference between a
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: demon and a ghost.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: So this is how my week went.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: It's not just it's not just a difference in measurement.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: It's it's it's a completely you know, measures guys, measure
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: how we film concept.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: The and the other thing I had to go through
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: to prep for today, except for reading a whole book
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: by Jay Devan's Did you see that creepy part in
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: the jog and interview where he's discussing Joe Biden eating
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: an ice cream? And he said, Jay Devon said that
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Biden was eating ice cream in a very sexually suggestive way.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: And I swear to god, I haven't heard anyone since
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: I was in high school criticizing how someone needs a
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: nice cream and how it can be sexually suggestive. I
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: felt I was fifteen years old again, and we're back
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: at high.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: School and this is you know, eighty something year old
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Biden who can barely you know, wow. I mean, no,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I missed that. I did see. I started watching the
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: demon stuff. I saw a little bit of that, and
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: I've heard Jadvans talk about demons before where somebody he
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: was doing an interview and somebody asked him about the
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: UFOs and Jdvan said something like, you know, I haven't
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: really looked into it. I should. I'm vice personat have
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: access to the files, so I should really look into it.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: But I don't really think UFOs, you know, I aliens.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure the.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Demons, Yes, that was his, that was his?
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: How can they be both demons and UFO? So aliens
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: can also be ghosts?
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, but apparently no, because the ghost is different from
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: a demon. Although I ghost can be a demon. But
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: you'll have to ask j Devans that.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I can be agreement. Now I'm interested. I'm gonna have
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: to find that section in in Gee Rogan because you know,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: that's mind blowing.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: This is, by the way, this comes from the guy
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: who in his first book, which I really like it,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: He'll Billy Legy said that it's the same that we
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: live in the country that so many people believe crazy
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: things such as the fact that then President Obama was
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: not a real American, a conspiracy theory which started or
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: started which was amplified by Jay Devance's boss.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's it's striking because I mean j
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Evans at some point it was very critical of Donald
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Trump and uh and and criticized Donald Trump. He might
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: have even called Donald Trump and Nazi. But he was
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: very very critical of Donald Trump and then flipped very
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: quickly when Donald Trump won, and and j Evans wanted
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: to get into the Senate. It's it's also what's interesting
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: about jad Evan's and is he's not an idiot, right.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: This is this guy who bootstrapped himself out of you know,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the really holbo poverty and in the Appalachian Mountains and
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: a hubble situation. He went to Harvard or Yale, I
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: can't remember.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: He went first to Ohio State University. First of all,
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: he was a marine. He served in Iraq, then Ohio
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: State and then Yale. And after Yale he worked in
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: impressive type of lines of businesses. He worked for Peter
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: til he was part of investing films. So his life,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: who is absolutely impressive, is absolutely impressive, especially for someone
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: who comes from these background So for people who don't
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: know comes from a completely broken family, mother having issues
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: with abuse with drugs. He didn't have a paternal figure
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: in his life, was a rotation of fathers, and his
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: number one person of influencing his life was his was
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: his grandmother. So he explains all this in his first book,
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: He'll Billy Leergy, which is what put him at the
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: center of the public discussion.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: And Herbert Eulogy has I mean his the conclusion of
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: it is really that people need to take more personal
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: responsibility exactly. And if the problem with the people in
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: the Appalachian Mountains and the reason they stay so poor
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: is not because they're victims of something, but because they
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: have not taken upon themselves, they have not taken the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: kind of responsibility and and and you know, improved themselves,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: which he did of course as a as a young man.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: The way he puts it is for your life's problems,
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: it's not the government, it's not the Chinese, and it's
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: not the big business. The number one person who can
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: take ownership of your problems is you. That's what his
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: And as a consequence, your problems cannot have political solutions.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: That was his main line in twenty sixteen. Fast forward
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: a few years later he switches this insists, actually the
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: number one reason we have all these broken communities and
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: all these problems are political choices that we made. And
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: number one political choices we made is to deify the
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: market and to have.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Us our new religion the market.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: But more on that, that's going to that's what we're
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: going to do describe today.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about why this is
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: relevant right. While we're talking about Jed Evans, he is
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Vice president and as such, he is the presumptive Republican
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: nominee for presidents in twenty twenty eight. Now, Trump is
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: not very popular, and neithers Vance, it seems. But within
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Republicans it's still true that Advance is the most popular
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: potential candidate for presidents. So there is some likelihood that
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: it will be Jdvance on the Republican side. Uh. And
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: you know you might say now that, oh, well, if
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: that's the case, nobody's going to vote for him, and
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: and uh and and he will for sure lose. But
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the reality is that it depends who the Democrats put up.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, uh, for we know the Democratic candidate will
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: be this Ahmad el Sad or something, uh, the new
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: the new senatorial candidate in in Michigan. But it could
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: be AOC, it could be it could be who knows
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: whom the Republican the Democrats will actually put up against JD. Vans.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: And uh. You know, I know a lot of people
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: who hate J. Evans, but then will say to me, yeah,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: but but he's the less of two evils, right uh
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: and uh and and and so he could very well
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: be the next president of the United States. I don't
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: know how to put a probability on it. It's probably less
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: than fifty percent, but it's probably not much less than
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: fifty percent. And they still hope that Republicans would choose
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: somebody else. But I always hope Republicans would choose somebody
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: other than Trump, and that never happens. So my hoping
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: unsurprising given the metaphysics and the perstonology. My hoping doesn't
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: have any impact on who actually gets elected. And here's
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: a plot twist.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: Don't be surprised if many people from the left will
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: actually vote for Jivans, because you will see that his
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: economic agenda is maybe even slightly to the left of
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: people like Elizabeth Warton. And I'm particularly one hundred percent
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: serious about that. This is not something a hot take.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: As we will see today. His anti capitalists, he's very
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: conscious and open anti capitalist puts him somewhere there. He's
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: a Catholic Bernie bro and people right now will think,
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: come on.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: You will see, we're going to read your particular parts
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: from his book, and if you pay attention, you will
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: see that more and more openly he wants to put
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: himself into that niche that I'm a Catholic burning.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, he's clearly those economic policies, as we'll
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: see that make him consistent with that. He is co
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: sponsored bills when he was for a short time in
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: the Senate with Elizabeth Warren. He is a leftist when
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: it comes to economic policy, and he combines that with
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: a arent Catholicism and a real belief, real belief in
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: the fact that we should not separate church and state.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure we're going to get to that and
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: talk about that. Okay. So, so here's a guy who's
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: going to be president or maybe going to be president
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: if he's even if he's not president, he's going to
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: have a huge impact on the Republican Party. Much of
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the Republican Party is going to probably coalesce around him.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Even if he loses, maybe they'll look for some other
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: candidate who they think can represent them better. But the
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: National Conservative, the Christian Conservative, and now the Tecker Costing Conservative,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: because Tucker Cosson came out with a ten point plan
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: for a new political party. But I think that at
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the ant Tucker will now run, he'll fold his movement
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: behind JD. Vans.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: And this week it was reported that Tramp and he
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: was opposed by Fox News that Tramp has almost officially
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: told people, Hey, we have to help JD be the
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: next president.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: That's what Fox reportant.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so we'll see another hand. JD. Evans is
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: also regarding regarding you on and so you know, who
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: knows what is public standing would be in uh when
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the campaigns started eve and a half the campaign was
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: started at the end of twenty twenty seven, and really
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: in yeah, in the fourth quarter of twenty twenty seven,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: so less than a year and a half, year and
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: a quarter it will start it.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in one sentence, what is the most important thing
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: with this guy who is worth of a whole deep
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: dive that as opposed to Trump, Dvance is someone who
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: is absolutely guided by an ideology.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: And he actually told us what ideology is. He wrote
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: a whole book about it. And Jay Devance views the
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: world through the prism of the social teachings of the
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Catholic Church, and he plans to rule according to such teachings.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: And again, in case anyone missed it, he wrote a
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: whole book where he says that this is how he've
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: used the world and this is how he wants to do.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And I think I think there's a lot of people
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: out there, and maybe we'll get to this, but there's
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of people out there who think he's just
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: a power luster. He's just saying all this stuff because
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: he thinks that, you know, he'll adjust. He changes his
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: mind all the time. Uh, and and it's just about power,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: And I don't think that's true. I think he changes
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: his mind, that's true, but he changes. He's changed his
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: mind now towards an ideology that there's a good chance
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: he sticks with it. Uh. That is, yes, he's he
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: was a Protestant. He then became an atheist. We'll talk
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: about that. Now he's a Catholic. But I really think
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: he's becoming more and more intellectual as a Catholic and
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: bringing his ideas in line with his Catholicism. And that's
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: the social teaching. It's it's the fan posse focused on
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: quote peace, it's you know, it's a but it's also
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: his admiration for Patrick Deneen and some of the other
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: new level, post level sorry post level Catholic intellectual So
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: I think this is who he really is. He's a politician,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: so yes, so you know, lie and manipulate, But overall
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: I think this is these are the real ideas that
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: the ideas reflected in this book.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: And one last thing, so that we preempt some of
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: our friends from being mission for being perplexed. They could say,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: come on, he's not the first nor the last politician
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: who is religious.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Only two three.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Weeks ago were discussing Jimmy Carter and the evangelical movement.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: But the difference is that people like Carter. They explicitly
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: told you that my faith is a personal matter. My
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: faith is not going to be a guiding handbook of
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: how I will govern. Jay devanced openly and when the
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: time comes, I'll read you the exact quote.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: He openly says.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I will be guided by Jesus teaching on everything, not
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: just the misuse of who I'm going to marry.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: For these things. Jesus is for everything.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Yep, No, he is. If he ever gets elected, he'll
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: be the first one. I mean, because we've had a
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Catholic as President, John F. Kennedy. But again, if Kennedy
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: was very clear, my personal beliefs separate than how I'm
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: going to govern. The two there's a separation which he
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: stayed in the church, and Jade Evans explicitly does not
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: believe there's a separation, shouldn't be a separation, doesn't believe
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: the founder is really intended for a separation, and he
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: doesn't intend to govern assuming there's a separation. So absolutely
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: he is there, all right, So let's let's maybe talk
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: about this transition that he went through, because when he's
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: at Yale, he is, by his own admission and atheist
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: and even goes through an i Ran period where he
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: thinks he's going through an iron Ran period. For by
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: everything I've read about him talking about avent he never
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: understood her and he never he never, you know, really
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: understood what she was talking about. But it doesn't last
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: very long, and he is particularly given as well as
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: she would be the theo he is. You know, Oh,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: he ended in a different direction. So maybe maybe he
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: can elaborate on what happens.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's see the whole arc. So he's raised on
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: a Protestant background. Again, the most important person in his
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: life is his grandmother, who was a Protestant at some point.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Because again we're talking about a clever guy. He notices
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: that religion Christianity or at least Protestant Christianity hasn't got
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: much to say about your life.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Things that are important in one's life.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: So he brings the example of a case that I
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: don't remember, a very tragic case. There was a woman
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: who was in life support and there was all this
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: discussion in the early two thousands whether you should pull
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: the plug and take her off lives.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Up because this woman.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember this, Yeah, And his.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Point was, Okay, this is a tragic case, but how
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: is this a.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Guide to anyone's life.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: So he takes he throws a conclusion that religion is
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: some rules and some dogma that doesn't actually apply to life.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Which, interestingly, maybe he was on. He was onto something.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: So he leaves more and more behind the Protestant religious
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: and he doesn't feel a personal connection with God. He
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: tries to pray, but nothing comes out of this. When
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: he comes back from the from the Marims, from his
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: deployment in Iraq. By the way, while he's in Iraq,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: he also questions the US foreign policy good reasons to
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: do that, but he does so in a way that
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: it makes him also question the American sense of life
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: or the American way of life, and interestingly, This comes
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: from discussion with iraqis with the natives. They tell him, well,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: you know you have this stupid music Britney Spears or
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: other b this is stupid. And then he thinks, oh,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: is this what America is about these days? So he
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: has all these all these thoughts. So he goes back
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: to the United States. He studies at Steam Universities, and
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: his premises clever people are not religious. And this is
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: why meeting Peter Till was so crucial for him. Not
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: just because or at least that's how he describes it
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: in his latest book, Communion, not because Still later hires him,
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: but because here is someone who is clever, who is successful, and.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Who is religious.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: So now this stereotype all the religious people are stupid,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: This stereotype doesn't apply anymore.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah. And pter Teo for those of you who
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: don't know, Poto is one of the founders of PayPal,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: and he actually got actually he got the board of
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: directors of PayPal to FIREIRLN Mosque from the CEO position
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: and replace Elon Musk with himself. But then was smart
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: enough when he started his own venture capital fund, found
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: us Fund to invest in space X, out of which
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: he just generated a massive return. Peter Teel is also
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: the first money into Facebook. He wrote the first check
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: for Facebook five hundred thousand dollars. I can't even you know,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what the return on that investment is,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: but it's some massive multiple, you know, five hundred thousand
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: turn into like a billion or something like that. So
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Peter Tiel is a super smart guy, Stanford graduate, and
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: very eclectic all over the place. But you have to say,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: an original thinker, but very eclectic, combines an interest in
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: nine Rand's, Peter Til's very much during some years, a
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: big fan of Adlas Shrugg, even a found head. Is
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: wanted to make both into movies, and tried and hired
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: scriptwriters and all kinds of stuff. But you know, so
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: but a Catholic, a believing Christian Catholic, but also gay
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: and and and very you know, and he was out
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: at as gay at some point and actually sued the
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: publication that outed him and managed to destroy it. He
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: destroyed Gawk I think it was Gauka was any publication anyway? Uh,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Peter Tills and an incredibly interesting guy, but very committed
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: to a particular interpretation of the Catholic religion and maybe
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: that's where you want to go next, because I think
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: that's who he introduces this interpretation to Jdvan's Yes, so.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Through Peter till he comes across Ansar, who is a
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: very serious, prominent Catholic thinker in France.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: And also we have anted he.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Taught at Stanford. That's how that's how Poto Pato actually
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: two classes form when is you are okay, okay Afford University.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: That's that's how they and I think I think he
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: spent his final years decades in at Stanford.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: We're gonna have a special episode, by the way, on
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: integralism and or Christian or Christian nationalism. So we're gonna
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: get back to Ziraq. Now, this is the same approximately
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: time where he has a second important encounter, actually more
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: important with his with the woman who would become his wife, Ussa,
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: and for the first time in his life, he feels
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: that life is going well, that there is no imminent
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: doom and imminent chaos, which was the environment that he
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: grew up in. And this makes him think life a
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: bit more so. He finds himself in a reappreciation situation
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: of life. He is appalled by the sallowness of the
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: elites in these institutions, by the second by what we
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: would understand a second handedness, people caring about their credittions
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: and all that stuff. And he realizes that he has
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: to join again Charts. But now the question is witch charts.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Particularly when he has a kid. He thinks, I need
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: to I need to raise a boy of virtue. But
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: how do I do this? I need to Only religion
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: can give you this framework of virtue and this framework
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: of meaning. And he thinks, which is the religion which
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: is more established, more serious, Because he said, I would
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: go to a Protestant or Agelica Cherch, and I would
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: see charismatic pastors who were mostly sow men, with the
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: lights and the fireworks and all the smokes and all
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: that stuff. And then he said, we would move down
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: and then there would be a different chets. This is
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: what attracts him in Catholicism, the order, the fact that
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: it's all the fact that you can follow the lineage
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: of I think twenty two hundred and six popes, and
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: that it's always everywhere the same, whether you go to
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: church in Ohio or you go to church in Poland.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: It is part of the same tradition. It is part
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: of the same lineage, and this is what attracts him
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: to Catholicism.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: What's whereas and you have a sense of what's unique
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: about your odds view of Catholicism, you know, I mean,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I think there is some stuff. And he has this
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: memeric idea, and yeah.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: That's the interesting thing.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: Whenever j Devance quotes this thinking, mostly he talks about
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: his sociological insights and this idea that because we live
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: in a culture devoid of meaning, the way we operate
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: is by mimicking others, by being all of us being
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: second handers. And this is this is I never understood
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: why this is so unique or so deep.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I know the kidding.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: So, by the way, it's very interesting. It's very interesting
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: that what Jay Devance thinks about iron Rand is that
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: iron Run makes you want to chase creditials and chase
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: the top. So it's as if Peter Keating comes out
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: of the pages of the fountain Heads and then they
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: ask him what do you think Atlas rag is about?
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: And he says, oh, I think it's about second handedness.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: And this is the problem with Iran's iron is too
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: much focused on second handed.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: But that's a really interesting observation because that suggests and
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: maybe this is that this is the attraction to as
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: you are? Is the jdvanss that way that he is
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: fundamentally a second handed, second handed, and that you are
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: explains that to him, right you are in a sense
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: gives him, you know, gives him this is the way
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: human beings behave, this is this is your way humanity advances.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: But he strikes me as very secondhanded, you know. He
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: he's latching on always to other people's ideas. He's latching
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: on and credentials matter to him. He went to Yale,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: he didn't go to he didn't stay at Ohio State.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: He went to Yale, and he went for the Senate.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Now he's vice president. He wants to be president. He
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: hangs out with Deneen and he he and he speaks.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: He mimics the ideas that are presented by these other people.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: So then why why does all the time he talk
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: about the perils of second hardness. That's the things that
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I can't put together.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: But and yet I think that's exactly what he is.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: So he sees it when it's in the material realm
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: and that's most of the perils that he sees in
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: second handedness is chasing money, chase in fame, chasing uh,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: you know, success in some material sense. It's it's not
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: he's a second head in a much deeper way, in
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: a spiritual sense.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: That's yeah, that's that's But again it's the interesting thing
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: in the book because also the second book is very
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: well readed. You experience from the front row all these
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: battles that go in his in his mind. So, for example,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: at some point he says, I would go back to
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: my community. First of all, he's very loyal to King
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: and he calls it King, so he's a tribalist. He
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: goes back to the community, and he feels guilt that
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: now he has made it. So he says, at some
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: point he told of his sister, with whom he was
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: very close. Why he gives why she gives her kids
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: syria every day and she tells her they're very sugar.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: You know, we have medicine these days. You cereals are
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: not good. And the sister is mostly like a piece off.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Now you're a hot short and you can tell us
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: what to do. And Jay Devance feels guilty so, oh,
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: you're right, how who am I? Why did I come
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: to the Appalachian Mountains or whatever it is?
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Who am I now to tell you how.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: To feed your kids? So he feels guilt that he
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: has left his community. He feels guilted, he he's at
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: the same time, he's proud, but also he feels the
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: sense of betrayal that I've left, I've left the hilly
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: billy's behind, and I'm always going.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: To be a hilly billy and I always one of them.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting psychology, you know, I don't know.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: And it's it's it's interesting that he doesn't want to
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: tell his sister what to do, right, So he regrets
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: that he feels guilty about that, but he wants to
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: run all of our lives.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: So he's that's a that's a harvest, and that's a
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: harvest ruth.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: And I think, if you ask me, religion is not
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: doing him much well. I mean, he says that his
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: life was completely transformed. But I'll give you two examples
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: before we get to his policies and all that stuff.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: When he has his boy, his first boy, he talks
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: to his wife about where he should.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Go at the university before he's even born.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: And then he says, wait a minute, aren't we just
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: perpetuating this inequality and this elitism. Imagine what poison a
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: galitarianism and altruism has fed you. That you are making
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: plans for the most important thing in your life and
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: you feel this zero sumking. But that means that there's
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: gonna be one less position in.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: Yale about the porky or something like that, and the
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: other occasion when you see that poison.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: He gives a disguis.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: He talks, I think it's the diety of CEO podcast
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: and he says this line that I hate, and I
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: think Pikoff had the whole podcast on it. I'm no
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: better or worse than anyone else, and I think it justice.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I'm no better than anyone else. I was thinking. You
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: started as a hilly billy. You have seen all these
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: things in your life. You have a wife that you love,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: and you consider this.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Is the biggest, the most important thing you've achieved, and
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: still you think you're no better than anyone else. Like, seriously,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: you are no better than until at the hand, you're
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: not better.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: The hill believe you left behind in in in Apolagi.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: He cannot put himself saying I'm better than than the people.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: This is why he couldn't really understand. I went and
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: and he you know, again, there's a there's a secondhanded
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: listeners there, there's an altruism there, and he's being he's
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: being torn about all of that. I'm curious how he
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: deals with the fact that his wife in the book,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: his wife's not Christian. At some point he made the
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: statement publicly that he would like her to convert, but
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: there's no indication that she has any interesting converting, that
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: she is obviously brown skinned h and that the Republican
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Party seems to hate Indians and he, particularly his followers,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: you know, in the Republican Party hates people roim in India.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: How does does he deal with that at all?
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: In the well, the wor the generates are actually calling
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: him a rage straitor, and the generates with the audience
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: of of millions, well, he the way he dances around it.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: He says, she supportive of his convention. She actually told
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: him that I think Catholicism is good for you. And
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: she joins him in mass she joins him when he
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: goes to third she comes with him. So that's as
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: far as he will go in the book discussing that aspect.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: But I mean, he has pedestalized here so much that
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: I think it would be it wouldn't make sense for
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: him to. First of all, Catholics don't divorce, don't divorce. Yeah,
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: it's but no, I think the one thing that looks
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: very healthy in his life is he's married.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: So I hope it's it stays, it stays as it is.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: But I get for the worst part of the right,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: which is now a group that is expanding, sees a problem,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: sees a liability.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely, and it's going to be a problem if
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: when he wants, when he wants, Okay, so where do
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: we of from here? So he he you know, is
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: influenced by Pio as he likes Catholicism because of its continuity,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: and and it's I think it's rigor. It's it's a
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: rigorous religion, one hundred percent.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: I've all many times I've thought, if I would ever
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: be Christian, my starting point would behologies because it looks
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: the most intellectually serious. For the lack of a better term,
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: regod it's what record is the problem way to put it.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Part of Christian and I will never be attracted to
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: all this. Oh, I'm just spiritual. No, either you believe
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: or you don't. Or you don't believe, you don't.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Be part of the speaking in tongues? Do you know?
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: What's that?
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Speaking in tongues?
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: All right? So you have to look this up. And
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: the Protestants who speak in tongues, I can't. I can't
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: remember what they're called. Maybe somebody in the chat will
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: tell me what they're called. But uh, these are people
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: who believe, at some point, you know, the spirit enters
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: into them and they start speaking in some bizarre uh
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: miss completely, you can't understand the word language, the language
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: of the spirits, and it's called speaking in tongues. And
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: they get they get completely possessed, and they go freaky
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: and they and you know this is and there's a
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: there's it's a major Protestant you know movement that.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Oh, it only happens to Protestants, not Catholics.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, there's the Catholics. I'm sure Catholics have
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: their own.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: Well, Catholics would probably call you a demon or an alien,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: if I judge from from Jay Devans.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: We call a demon or an alien or maybe.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: A ghost or maybe a ghost.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: But to fix with the peographic being a demon, I
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: want the powers of a demon.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: Well, well again you should watch that stuff. It's it's
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: fascinating because this guy is going to be the next president.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: And this guy is talking again for ten minutes about
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: the conceptual difference between a ghost and a demon.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: But oh it's Pentecostals. Look up the Pentecostals castles.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: Now, let's finish with the biographical staff. In twenty sixteen,
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: he releases the book He'll Billy Legy. I remember back then,
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: I will in libertarian circles and you'll be in all that.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: So I remember him also being featured in Libertarian podcast interestingly,
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: because again his message was this message of personal overcoming,
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: of empowering yourself and you don't need the government. Interestingly,
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: the podcast that Kata pulls him to fame is a
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: podcast by someone who later.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: They would say, also the same religious use. Rod Drecher.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: He's the one who who is his breakout moment.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Just for you know, is kind of a right wing.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: He's not a Catholic. He is an Orthodox. He actually
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: converted to Orthodox Christianity, and he a few years ago
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: he moved to Budapest. He lives in Hungary, was basically
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: working at a think tank funded completely by Victor Oban.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: He became a huge advocate for Victor Oban and to
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: this day is a good friend of JD Events. You know,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I think that there was an article by there about
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: all the crazy right wing young people, the Intersemitism and everything,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: and he was hanging out with Jad Events, not just
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: a few months ago, with Jad Events's home.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Lately he has some good takes on the craziness on
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: his and I critical of the Forway, yes, critical of
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: the fire right, and I think I'm not sure.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: I think the reason he.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Got alienated from the Catholic Church were the scandals and
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: the child abused. That's more of that when we talk
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: about integrity and all that. Anyway, so he becomes a
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: public intellectual. He says in the book that being a
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: public intellectual pays very well. He should give us also
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: the handbook of how this happens. So, for example, on
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: the night of the election, he is on Prime TI
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: giving his verdict, and now he presents it as I
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: liked the people who liked Trump, but I believed I
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: believe the mainsteam journalists who and the experts who told
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: me that Trump was dangerous, but then he sees that
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Trump actually is not that bad. In twenty twenty two,
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: he runs for the Senate in Ohio. Twenty twenty four,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: he gets he becomes I think, the youngest vice president,
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: and he's in Trump's ticket and the rest is the
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: rest decisiony and the rest.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: People know it's important to twenty twenty two, when he
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: went in Ohio, he was bankfalled by uh Pioto Peo.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Teo funded his entire campaign, poured a lot of money
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: into that particularly election. He had two potl two candidates,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: one Jed Evans and the other whose name I don't remember,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: was in Arizona. The guy in Arizona lost, j Evans won,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: and both TiO candidates.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: And I think Vance started as an underdog in that point,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: and I don't I.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Don't remember it exactly very much. So that's right the odds.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: So this is it.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: This is it his biography.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: And now if you want, we can get more in
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: the in his particular views, so that we talk mostly
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: about his economics, because again it's it's impressive what's going
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: to come out of that?
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean let's start really with let's talk about
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: his views and economics and u and the extent and
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: the way in which religion inspires them or is Catholic
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: cethic religion inspires them.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: So we have to start from the religious part, because
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: if we don't understand this, we won't understand anything. I'll
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: just read the small passage from his book, because I
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: think it's the most telling part of the whole book.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: He says, we can find Christianity to the most private
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: of questions, relations between husbands and wives, reproductive decisions, and
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: then we're surprised when kids like me grow up in
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: the faith and then discard the faith. So basically, he's telling,
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: if we confine Christianity to our everyday lives, Christianity is weak,
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Christianity is timid, which is.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Which is which is the way the Enlightenment viewed Christianity,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: and the way arguably the funding Fathers viewed Christianity. Christianity
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: is what you do at home. It's it's and the
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: whole achievement of the Enlightenment, the whole achievement. One of
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: the big achievements of the enlaben is the relegation of
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: religion to the home. And away from public the public sphere,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: away from science and away from politics.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: So it's and here, and here's how he evaluates what
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: you just said, we have to do better. If Christianity
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: is true, it must be true for the whole human
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: person at all times of life. To quote the famous
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: theologian Aham Quieper, there is not a square rinsing the
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: whole domain of our human existence over with Christ, who
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: is sovereign overall, does not cry mine, so everything, everything
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: belongs to the Christ. And he repeats this theme throughout
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: the book that in all aspects of your life, the
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: solution to everything, from racism to the epidemic of loneliness,
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: to sexual frustration, to everything, the solution is Christianity. And
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: the state should stop pretending that it hasn't got to
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: say on these things, because then the result is what
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: we see. He keeps using this phrase, something like judge
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: them by their fruits, So judge the culture by what
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: it has produced. It has produced opio, the epidemics, loneliness.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: We don't have children anymore. Therefore, reject the culture that
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: gave us result, and go back to embracing the culture
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: that gave us this country, that gave us Europe, which
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: is Christianity.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, which is a mistagnosis of history, because the culture
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: that gave us this country, and it gave us modern Europe,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: is the culture of the Enlightenment, exactly, that culture that
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: relegated Christianity to the home and away from politics. Because
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: the culture that actually embraces Christianity in every part of
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: the war, in every part of life, was the culture
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: that gave us the Thirty Year War, which is you know,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: and what the Enlightenment was rebelling against the mass laugh
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: in the name of Jesus.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: And it's very interesting that he never mentioned these times.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: So he says, look what Christianity has given as he talks,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: for example, about the trip he went and there's a
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: nice castle in Wales, and says, this is what Christianity
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: gave us. Nothing about the wars. I think about the stagnation.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: Yesterday we were talking about civilizations going backwards, going extinct,
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: and then we have to invent ourselves. Isn't it something
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: that what happened at some point in the Middle Ages.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: It doesn't even pose the question, because I know some
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: historians will say, no, this is not what happened. But
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: there's zero curiosity about that. It's just everything that is nice.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: Here's a nice castle that was Christianity.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know why you say castles
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: with Christianity. Castles exist beautiful Christianity. What's that beauty? Beauty? Yeah,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean Christianity adopts beauty for political reasons.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: It adopts beauty when when beauty is is deemed necessary
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: to establish its power, which is really at the beginning
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: of the Renaissance, the beauty has started to be creating
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: around the church, and the church embraces beauty as a
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: way to to attract people to it and to keep
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: them there. But yeah, I know, people think cathedrals are
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: the most beautiful thing in the world. The Gothic cathedrals
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: are the pinnacle, the pinnacle of human creation, and you
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: know of human creation is beautiful, which is bizarre to me.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: But I'll confess something. I lived in New York for
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: three years. There was not a single time when I
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: crossed your cathedral with the Richard the Lionheart statute that
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: I didn't pose for a bomb and say wow, so
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: but I'm not an expert, but.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I was ambition.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: There was grand there, so there was something there there
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: was something there.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the willingness to sacrifice the lives of
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: hundreds of peasants for the glorification of a make belief,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: you know, gremlin who doesn't exist. It's a it's an
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: expression of power. If you if you go to Egypt
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: and you look at the pyramids, wow wow. But it's
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: a Muslim for the glorification of a dead pharaoh. And
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: the cathedrals are the same thing. They're like pyramids. But
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: but you know, in a sense, in a sense worse.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: But anyway, And I'm not the criteria for good architecture
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: because I also like stylin this architecture and the Palace
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: of the People in Romania.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, ask me about football.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: Don't know about in London, so don't ask me about architecture.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: But let's conquerdize a bit.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: We said that j Devance believes that religions who have
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: the essay on everyday things in politics. Let's give an example.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Actually he gives the example. He says, notice how we've
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: stopped going to chearch on Sunday. But how can you
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: go to church on Sunday if you have to work
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: on that day or if you are tempted to go
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: to the mall. So maybe maybe we should nudge people,
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: encourage people not to work on Someday. And the next
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: ob step is maybe we should pan work on someday.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: They should be a decree on whether you should work
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: on Saturday or he says. He says, imagine how many
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: people need to stand up from the table on Thanksgiving
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: because they have to go to work. It says, a
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: healthy society should recognize that it is gross for a
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: sixteen year old to go to a twelve hours shift
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: on Thanksgiving.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: And I thought.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: I was doing sifts when I was a pH d
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: student at the most ungodly hours on the most ungodly days,
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: and thank god I did it. Thank God there was
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: no Jay Devance to tell me it's a.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Gross for you.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: No, it's not gross for me. It would be gross
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: for me not to get the extra money that I
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: got in these days. But you see, he knows better him,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: and actually not he the Bible, the Christian Creed knows better,
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: and based on that we should decide things like when
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: the shops should actually be open and when the shops
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: should be closed.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: And there was a long American tradition of doing that.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: So when I lived in Boston in the nineteen seventies,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: it was illegal to open a store on Sunday. All
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: the stores were closed on Sunday, and some grocy stores
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: stayed open because they made more business than the fine. Right,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: so it was profitable for them to stay open on
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: a Sunday and pay the fine. But they were fine.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: It was illegal. So I can't remember the name of
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: the laws.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: There's Sunday trade laws that were called. In the UK
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: it is and of course in every socialist seat wholly
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: to the same.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: In Greece it's like that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: Of course all the cafes are open, so apparently there's
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: no scene for these people. But anyway, but you could say, okay,
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: this is very specific. Okay, Sunday trade as the principle.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: But let's see how this applies to his world you
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: and economics. So, whether you read the book or you
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: wats his interviews, J. Devance heavily quotes Pope Leo the Eighth.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: This was a pope from the late nineteenth century and
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: his realm novarum and cyclical. Realm novarum means new things,
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: so the pope released and encyclical about new things. In
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: the late nineteenth century. Of course these new things were capitalism. Yes,
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: and this reads like the program of a social democratic party.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: It calls for fair wages, protection of workers' rights, and
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: a reconciliation between labor and capital.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: The Pope says, we are, not, of course communists.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: And you know it's the most hilarious moment is in
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: an interview Jay Deviance is, obviously we're not Marxist. Has
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: to make the clarification we're not Marxist because his is
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Marxism and the Catholic Church have a lot of theological divisions,
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: that's the problem. But anyway, so and this Pope has
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: the idea that we need to find a way to
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: reconcile labor and capital through them sitting on the same table,
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: and labor unions could play a role. Of course, this
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: is what later becomes the third position. This is how
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: fascists view themselves as reconciling labor and capital.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: And J.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Devan's put it, or the pope I don't remember, and J.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: Devan's calltes him something like no man has the right
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: to deny another man of a living wage. Notice how
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: simplistic and clueless this view is, no man has the
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: right to deny another man in living wage, as if
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: the capitalistic is his duty.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: So jobs grow on trees, and.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Then you go and take a job, and the capital
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: is now he's given you the job, and now he
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: has also have a duty to pay you a wedzu,
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: which is good for you and your family. And then
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: Jay Devance does a little historical overview. Of course, he
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: praises FDR's New Deal. He praises the role of the
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: church in making the New Deal digestible and attractive to people.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: And the reason he likes this Pope and the encyclical
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: of the Pope is he says, this sattters the myth
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: of individual responsibility, that each one is responsible for his
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: own life. And he said the Pope recognized that there
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: needs to be a political framework so that people are
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: nudged to make the right choice. So the capitalist needs
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: to be nudged, which means forced, at the end of
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: the day to understand that he has a duty, a
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: Christian duty to the work. Again, I think there's a
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: name for this. The name is social democracy. Jay Devans
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: and the Pope have discovered social democracy and they think
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: they've found something very profound.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Well, but but yes, I think that's right, but guided
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: by and excused by, you know, Christian moral principles. And
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: so he constantly says, look, you know, I'm not a socialist,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: but if you know, if you if you continue along
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: this path of capitalism, you will get socialism because the
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: working class wiver bell and uh, they'll give you socialism.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: So what I need, what we need to do, which,
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: by the way, is the same argument every fascist has
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: always made. Right, what we need to do in order
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: to prevent the rise of socialism is you need to
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: meet and I need to control the markets. I need
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: to preempt socialism with socialism or with fascism, you know,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: if you want to call it something different. But he
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: constantly in every interview I've seen, particularly recently the last few,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: you know, since the book came out, he makes this argument. Look,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: the reason socialism is on the rise, the Democratic Socialists
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: in America being so successful in elections, is because the
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: people are rebelling against capitalism. We as a political party
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: can't represent capitalism because the people are rebelling against it.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: We have to answer to the concerns about capitalism, and
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: the only way to do that is to be socialist
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: without being socialists. And really what he means is being
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: socialist without what really pisses off the right. The right
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't care about economics. What really makes the right upset
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: is you know trans people in Christopher Nolan's movie, or
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: you know a black hell and of Troy, that really
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: pesses them off like that, they get super upset about.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: They couldn't care less about free markets or capitalism or
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: economics or anything like that. So to prevent Walk, which
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: is a socialism, we need socialism, but with a Catholic,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: the neo or Catholic, you know oversight.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: Actually Vance takes it a step further. He wants to
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: go straight to the socialist. He doesn't even care about
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: fighting Walk. He actually says that the problem with the
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: Republican Party is that all these years they tricked us,
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: They tricked us into selling us conservative culture wars, whereas
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: what they wanted was to cut taxes. And he said,
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: the average Republican doesn't even want to cut the taxes
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: of big corporation. So he goes straight to the point.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: The point is straight the socialist economics.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: And he's right right, because all Republicans have ever done
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: since Reagan. The only thing that differentiated them for Democrats
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: is they want to cut taxes, and that's it. And
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: there's you know, people say, look how Trump is grad
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: he cut taxes. Every single Republican except George Bossenia has
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: cut taxes, So there's nothing unique about Trump. It's the
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: only thing that differentiates economically Republicans and Democrats really in
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: any fundamental sense in terms of actual governing policy. So
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: he's right that the Republicans have failed because that's the
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: only thing they focused on and it's not that important.
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: And also, while the more he goes in his economic policy,
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: you realize that the guy is actually clueless, which is
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: weird for someone with these educations. So I wonder if
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: he's clueless or he's just like So he says, for example,
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: that and these are the words that he's using, I'm
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: not exaggerating them. He says that they're Robert Barons of
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: the Industrial Revolution, raised in equality so much that this
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: is what brought communism and therefore them fascistess the guy
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: has the arguments of a leftist, but actually the arguments
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: of a clueless leftist, and he's using all the time
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: leftist talking points and actually leftist talking points from the
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: early two thousands.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: He brings.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: For example, he wants to talk about against outsourcing to
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: China and he says, you know, workers in China was
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: jumping from the roofs of the apple factors in China,
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: and this is why they had to install suicide nets.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: And or he has this other point that England and
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: the US became the success stories of capitalism. Why you
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: think because of trade unions. These are not just leftist points.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: These are.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: Strong old left socialist points that it was trade unions
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: that made these countries what they are. And a theme
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: across his work is that stronger unions are needed, stronger
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: labor unions. And he says one of the problems of
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: immigration is that it weakens the cohesion of the labor movement.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Again, this is an old leftist arguments argument.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders has made this argument. That's why Bernie Sanders
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: has said explicitly is not for open immigration because it
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: weakens the unions and.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: It looks the unions.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: So he has this big idea to create this forum
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: where labor and business takes the decisions together.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: And there's a name for this. The name for this
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: is corporateism. And it was actually the economic model of fascism,
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: and Jay Devance takes it out of the closet of
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: history a century later and he thinks that he has
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: discovered the something. But I want to read one quote
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: verbattom so that because you know, people might think we
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: have Trump or vast deranged and problems. So I'm gonna
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: read a very short quote, and i want our audience
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: to think, if I told you that this quote came
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: forgetting Pernisandra's if I told you this quote came from
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: Hassan Piker, which is a quote that, as we see,
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: could easily come from Picker, how would you judge it?
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Quote.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: We're going to wake up and realize that rich people
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: have gotten way reacher, The average person has stagnated, and
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: people really hate relative poverty. Post quote.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: Relative poverty is when it's not that I'm poor, but
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: someone has way more than I am, so I'm envious.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Continuing the quote, you can give people iPhones and the.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: Creature comforts of a twenty per century economy, but if
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: you make rich people way richer.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: You're going to have significant problems. Pause.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: Notice, by the way, if you make rich people richer,
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: this is how this guy understands productions. Someone somewhere makes
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: rich people richer and finishing the quote, the idea that
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: we're going to allow to allow these companies he talks
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: about big business, big tech to accumulate trillions and trillions
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: of wealth and then will be able to successfully redistribute
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: it to workers.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: I'm very skeptical of that. So he's not going to allow.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: And the problem if these people get to reach is
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: then it's difficult to redistribute. So we need to find
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: better redistribution models which are not going to be first
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: let them be reached and then distributed, because then you're
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: going to have relative poverty.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Again.
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: These are I grew up with these arguments. These are socialists,
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: hard socially stalking.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Points, yes, and they're hardcore fascist talking points. And I
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: think that's that's that's where he's coming from. That is
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: this is this is the new right. This is the
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: kind of the fascist right. They you know, maybe they're
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: not yet quite authoritarian like the fascist thing. Maybe they're
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: not quite yet as racist as fascist, although some of
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: them are getting there. Uh. But in the name of
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: stopping the left, they've they they completely adopt the left,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: and he has his what makes him more committed, I
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: think is the fact that his views are coming from religion.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: That is, he is embracing Christian egalitarianism, and that is
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: what is really motivating him, you know, to to to
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: really commit to this. So it's it's not just it's
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: not just he's playing. He's I'm actually curious, and I
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: don't know how to. I need to ask Peter Tiel
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: at some point this question, because I don't think Peter
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: believes any of that, right, I don't think Peter believes
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: in it, but I think Peter believes that you have
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: to say it because the average person believes in it today. Right.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: But you know, Peter's a self made man. I mean
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: he again, he founded Pai Palies, He's got one of
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: the most successful vinche capital funds ever, he's got a
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: hitch fund. He's he's an incredibly successful and he knows
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: He's got Atla Shrug. He studied at the Shrug. He
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: knows the economics. I don't think he would ever talk
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: quite this way. But what Pete, I think would say,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: is if we don't if we don't get the working
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: class on outside, socialism wins and they kill us. So
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: we need to get the working class on outside. We
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: need to play the socialist card. So the question is
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: is jd Vance doing that or does he really believe it?
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Now I think he really believes it, because I think
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: he's bought into the integralist will view in a way
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: that Peter Teel has.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: Now it's interesting our friend, common Italian friend, Luca was
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: asking me on Twitter how can Peter Til support that crap?
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: And I said, I have no clue, but I told him,
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: I promised him I would ask you so, but you've
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: already You've already answered it.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: I think it's he believes us a surf of survival.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: I think if if if we don't and this is
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: why I supported Trump, if we don't cater to the
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: worst elements in our society, they will rise up against
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: us and kill us all so or bring us being
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: a socialism and woke socialism. So his view is you
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: gotta you gotta pan it to them in order to
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: in order to bias time. I think that's I think
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: that's Teal's view. But do you remember time I see
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Peter Til, I'll ask.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: Him, do you remember that scene in Adlas Ragt where
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: after rear then court speech, he's in that party with
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: other businessmen and all are telling him, oh, why did
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: you go that far? Now they're gonna think that we're
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: just after money. And he tells them, hey, but and
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: we after money. He says, yeah, but you shouldn't tell
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: it because then they're gonna come after us. And he says,
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: so if you I'm good saying it. But he says
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: something like, so if you tell them that your money
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: is not yours, then you think they're going to leave you?
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: He leaves the party by saying something like, gentlemen, I'm
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: really sorry. I'll have to save your goddamn neck while
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: I'm saving mine, or something like that. Do you remember
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: that scene? Yes, yes, that's exactly I think what's happening
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: here I think so too. And it's so sad because
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: yesterday and your show you're talking about Nolan, the director,
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: who has the same view that I have to cater.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: To the lowest common denominator.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: How sad that these great spirits are broken and are defeated.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Yup, I think that's absolutely right. But you know this
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: is this is the cost you pay for losing the
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: intellectual battle, right, So, so you know these great spirits
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: in production. Peter Teel and and alone mosque and people
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: like that, who do they turn to for intellectual inspiration. Well,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Peter Teel turns to as Gerard. He's exposed to Rand,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: but he can never really embrace Rand. She's too she's
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: too radical and and and he and he doesn't want
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: to lose the world, the culture. He views Rand as
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: if he embraces Randy's lost kind of the world. So yes,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, uh, this is what happens when businessmen don't
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: have the intellectual ammunition provided to them by the intellectuals.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: It's the job, it is anyway, so to femies. He
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: has also this absolute.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: Crricature review people can find I quote him on my
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: last tweets on that where everyone the mainstream is a
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: liberal libertarian market worshipers, and he says, you know, whenever
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: you spend time caring for your elder parents, this takes
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: time from worker from GDP and you know, the powers
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: to be don't like that. And he has this stupid
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: idea that there is this it's like either the economy
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: or your values, economy or life, and it's like the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: one or the other. We want people overspread seats. Again,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: these are arguments of a first year, not particularly bright
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: sociology student. And this is where I start thinking, he
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: can't believe these things. He can be that stupid. He's
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: probably pandering. He's probably appeasing the lowest common denominator, but
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: the lowest common denominator of the other side, the all
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: the lowest common denominator of the left.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: It turns out that those common denominator both sides as
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: the same person or the same people. I mean, that's
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: that would explain him. Pandering would explain Peter Teo, because
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Peter TiO would sit. Peter TiO is not going to panda, right,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: He's not a Pandora, but he would support pandurin as
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: a survival strategy. I could see him saying, Okay, JD
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: go panda. His his his, he's the millions, go Panda
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: because we need you to Panda, because we need to
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: appease these people so that they don't come after us,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: they don't selet our throats, and and and and that's
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: I think Peter TiO is kind of thinking whether vance
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: really believes it. I think he has to. I think
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: ultimately he is a believer. I think you see that
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: as a relationship with with Deneen and the integralists. He's
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: truly a fan of Denian's. He's read Deneen, he is
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: praised Deneen. Uh. You know, he repeatedly goes on these
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: uh at these conferences, the National Conservative conferences, and talks
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: about these kind of issues, and he talks about it
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: in a way that sounds very authentic. I think he
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: is an is a Christian Conservative. He very much believes
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: in Christianity and applying Christianity to the world. I think,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: from Theo's perspectives, the puppet Master, if you will, Cheo
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: thinks he needs people like Jady Vance out there. But
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think jady Vans is doing the panduric. I
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: think it's THEO pandering through Jdvans, right, Jady Vance is
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: a believer. Jady Vance is a believer.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: You mentioned the name, by the way, when we're going
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: to talk about him, the guy's literally quoting Karl Marx
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: and he's using Marx and category. He's using the Marx
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: and category of alienation, not as a coincidence. He's actually
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: telling you Marx was right on alienation. I'm going to
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: use the Marx and category of alienation two things before
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: we end, or if you want will them for the
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: if someone brings them up. I want to say something
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: about the character of Jay Devans and some red flags
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: that I've seen, and the other about Israel. If you
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: want to cover any of these too.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do both. Let's start with Uh, let's start
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: with Israel and leave the character to the end. Okay.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: So with Israel?
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: So do you remember that part where he talks to
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: jor Organ about the Epstein files.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, and the Mosad of course.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it could be the Mozad, it could be CIA.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: It's this powerful.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: First of all, he has this this thing that whenever
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: someone was asking him something about Israel and Israel's influence,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: he would do this thing.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: He would sigh.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: And he had this expression like I'm going to I
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: know all these secrets, but how much can I reveal
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: to you plebs without the CIA assassinating me on.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: My way out or stuff like that. So you know
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: he would do Yeah, you know, I don't trust Israel.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: You know, it's an ally. But we have many allies,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: and yeah, we have to work with countries. Countries have
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: their goods and their bads. Israel has good and bad.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: Rossia has goods and bads, you know, and then he
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: will say, well, that was the most insidious one.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately we live in days where many are anti Semites
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: and others are proisident, but I'm moderate. Now, notice when
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: you put these things together, right, like, I don't I'm
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: not to the anti Semitic extreme.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: I'm somewhere in the middle.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: It's all this is like very insidious poison dripping or
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: in the book, maybe that's true.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Actually, I don't know. You will tell me. Is it
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: true that Charlie Kirk at the end of his life
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: was warring that Israel is having.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: Too much influence on the United States? Like, have we
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: got him on record saying these things?
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: There's some evidence of that in emails or chats that
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: I've seen. I don't think there's any public statement that
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: he made suggest that.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, because obviously he finishes his book. You know, obviously
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: with the tragedy with Charlie Kirk, they were friends. But
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: he again he highlights this that Charlie Kirk at the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: end of his life was was actually warming us that
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: Israel is having too much, too much, too much in
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: flat Also, it's very funny, ocously not funny.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: It's tragic. But listen to him talking about Iran.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: He has these views that, look, Iran is a civilizational state,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: they will never accept to be a rock state like Libya,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: and therefore we will cut a we will cut a deal.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: And he says there has been misunderstanding. You know, there's
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: been animosity, animosity like we hate them, they hate us.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: It's all a misunderstanding. So again, he's too clever. He's
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: clearly insidiously throwing this this this poison. Yeah, it's it's
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: the same with it. Yeah, maybe it was Mozad. I'm
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: not saying it was Mozad, but talsadro So who can
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: you know?
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: Who can ever know? Yeah, I mean that's right. And
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: this is a guy who used to be a huge
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Israel fan. Right, So when you ran originally, when the
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: Republican Party was all on the side of Israel, before
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: Tucker Carson became as antismitic as he's become, jd Vance
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: was very pro Israel, and he slowly moved away from that.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: He's slowly you know, taking this. He was just on
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: a Hugh Hewitt show, which is a kind of a
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: right wing talk show host, but who's very pro Israel,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: and he said, look, there was a great country. I
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: love Miny Israelis. But you know, just because we have
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: shared values doesn't mean we have identical interest. They have
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: their interest, we have our interests, you know, and then
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: we shouldn't confuse that, right. But yeah, it's it's it
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: really is. It's it's horrific. And I think we should
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: also talk about his views on you, right, because because
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: I think that has shaped a logic degree. I think
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: Trump's views in Ukraine and his hostilities is Lensky. But
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: but it was it was JD. Vans who really baited
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Zelensky last you know that that time, what is a
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: year and a half ago when when Trump got very
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: angry with Zlensky, I mean Jdvans really baited him. He
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: really set him up. You know, he's he said in
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: an interview years ago, Right, I don't really care what
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: happens to Ukraine one way or the other. Ukraine's challenges
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: not the geops, it's math. So he's convinced that Russia
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: is going to win and uh and and he has
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: this I don't know where it comes from. He says,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: what makes America a good country is America engaging in
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: diplomacy which is a weird.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: So you can say the same thing about Oman, about Qatar,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: about Pakistan. Chamberlain, yes, so okay. About Ukraine. In the book,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: he uses half a line on how Rosa should never
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: have attacked Ukraine, and then pages upon pages explaining his view.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: Now he does it in a way that if you
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: didn't know anything else about this guy, it would make sense.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: He says, we don't have enough ammunition to give them, basically,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: and you've explained in your souls many times, what are
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: the problems why the United States do not have enough
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: or the stockpiles that they should have. But he goes
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: on and on and on and on about that, and
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, his final conclusion is
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: that NATO is not as powerful as it used to
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: be because NATO started as a Christian alliance by Christian
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: by people with Christian values, and he brings Eisenhower, and
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: he brings Conrad at an Hour Christians who were openly
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: Christian with a Christian message. So in the book he
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: downplates Ukraine. I think this is because many of his
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: predictions were not proven right. And he said, well, I'm
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: not gonna say much about the world. It has had
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: its ups and downs. So it's a topic that actually,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: now that you mentioned, I'm surprised how little there is
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: about ukraineing his book.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Does he say much about China in the book? Almost? Zero?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Almost.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: It's interesting, actually, it's I would it's interesting. If I do,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: I'll control left right now. That's why my picture is
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: not going.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: To be good. There's very few, very few, very few mentions,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: very few mentions of of China. Yeah, very few mentions
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: of China.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: What about okay? So one other issues, how does he
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: how does he view immigration?
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, this is the most interesting thing because you see
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: here how he is how altruisms is unlivable, unlivable morality.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: So he mentions time and again that altruism gives you
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: very difficult puts in front of difficult soces. So he says,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: at some point, look, I can accept that I owe immigrants,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: even illegal immigrants, duties of charity, that I have.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: A duty of them.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: But also he says, we live in this world of
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: limiting resources, and I have duties to also my family,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: my community, my country. So who is going to be
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: who is going to be the recipient of my altar?
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: This is a difficult decision. He says, since even I'm
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: too generous to illegal immigrants, then I'm taking something away
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: from other people to whom I owe staff. So he
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: cannot perceive the immigrant as someone who is going to
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: benefit you. It's always the framework of altruism that you
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: are going to benefit you're going to benefit him.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: So that's one of his problems. Obviously he has the
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: cultural eros your problem, and he has also the economic
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: problem that they erode the unions and the units are
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: not very powerful. So he talks a lot about immigration,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: but mostly he brings it as a good example of
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: how things are ambiguous. And he says, I because he's
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: been criticized a lot by the Vatican, not by random
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: the priests, he's particularly under Vatican's previous administration. But I
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: think also it's correct, and he says, I accept that
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: that's the job of the Vatican to push back, and
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: we have an interesting discussion. That's how he he throws
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: the ball out of the film.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: I think he advocates for this idea which some Catholics believe,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: that your altruistic responsibilities get weaker as the person gets
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: further away from you, so you're finally responsibility is for
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: family and then your community, and then your nation, and
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: then people and other nations. Yes, you have an autoistic
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: responsibility to them, but it's much weaker than the altruistic
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: responsibility you have to the people closer to you. So
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: if you have to choose who the sacrifice to, you
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: have to sacrifice to the people close to you and
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: not to the people fall away from you.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: It's interesting that they put selfishness back from the window,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: because this implies that your family is a bigger value
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: to you. But their Devance is very eager to tell
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: us that, oh Eindrand does not understand that your love
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: to your family is selfless. Well, if it's selfless, then
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: throw your family away and go help someone from Ethiopia.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: If it's really selfless, yeah, it's completely delusional. But so
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: many people who don in Wendo so character tell us
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: about your evaluation of his character.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: I've noticed two red flags, and this is serious. It's
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: not like the ghost discussion. I think there are serious
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: that the ghost. The ghost discussion is a pretty big
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: red flag.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: I have to say, Okay, that's an epistable logical red slag,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: but these are more Yeah, anyway, you get the point.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: So in the jo organ discussion they bring they bring
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: up this Mma fighter who when the UFC took place
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: in the White House, he was outing Misselle Obama as
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: a man, and he did you did you do you
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: know the what I'm talking about?
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: And Jay Devance was completely unwilling to condemn that. Really
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: he said something like, come on, guys, you know this
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: is per classing. You're making too much of it. It
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: was a jog.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, it was not a great jog, but you know,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: I found it so distasteful. You are a host in
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: the White House and someone comes there and they offend
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: a previous host.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: Where are your manners? Where is your You talk in
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: the book all the time about character. Is this how
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: you show your character? That someone a guess in your house.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: Is so blatantly offending a previous host and all you
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: have to say is, come on, it was a joke.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: So this shows me something again. He's he's appeasing the
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: worst type of people. And by the way, if you
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: find it a joke and funny that Mischelle Obama is
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: a man, you have the IQ of I don't know
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: of a pumpkin citting Chris, we say we have the
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: IQ of a broccoli.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: But you also see this when when some Republicans attacked
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: his wife for being Indian and call the names, right,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: they call them eracial slurs. He kind of have, you know,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: joked it off, right. He didn't make a big deal
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: out of it, right, I mean, his wife's been offended, right,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: you think he's stand up for her honor and and
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: and and do something about and no, he kind of
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: again bushed it aside, Oh, it's not a big deal
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: kind of attitude.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: So that was I remember it now that you said yes.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: So that was the one thing. The other thing that
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: for me was a red flag. He's openly in our
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: face lying about Trump. He've said it twice, and I
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: remember it very well because I used it in a
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: nock On talk. He said he's never met someone as
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: good as Trump in reading people, in reading people characters,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: And I think, wait a minute, you're talking about the
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: guy who has had the fallout with ninety five percent
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: of the people he's ever worked with. How can you
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: read the character well and have a fallout with anyone
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: you work with. This is a guy who the Iranians
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: are playing with him, and he's the best he's ever
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: seen in reading people. And the other thing, which is
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: probably BS is that he claims that Trump is very intelligent,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: but also he reads a lot.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: Trump reads a lot.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: Like when you see Trump and knowing what you know
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: about his attention span, do you see a person who
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: probably reads a lot.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: Have you ever heard he mentioned I don't know a
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: book or something.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: Well, we know he doesn't read a lot. I mean
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: people coming out of the White House have said that
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: he won't even read a three page memo. They have
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: to get everything on a one page in big fun.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: He doesn't read. He doesn't read even for his job,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: never mind for general education or for enjoyment. He's not
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: a reader.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: So I have a rule though for people. If someone
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: lies to me about one thing, them very suspicious about
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: anything else that he says. So here's Jay Devane's bull
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: sitting us to appease his boss, and this is this
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: is a very low character trait.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, no, I think that's absolutely right. And you know
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: we can we get but we should. I want to
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: return to demons for a second. I mean, we can
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: make fun of demons and ghosts and aliens and stuff,
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: but the end of the day's somebody who really believes
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: this and he keeps repeating it, so there's no reason
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: to think that he doesn't believe it in. And there's
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: not a lot of big a lot of upside talking
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: about demons and ghosts and aliens a lot, right. I mean,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: maybe some people get to vote for you because you
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: believe in demons, but I don't think I don't think
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: it's a big constituency somebody who's that mystical. What else
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: does he believe in? Well, I mean he believes the
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Iranians are these pleasant people who are there's just a
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: misunderstanding with him. This is the fate of mystics, right,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: they have no connection to reality, then not connect and
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: that is a very very dangerous thing. And so he's
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: not connected reality. He believes in in demons, and he's
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: a real practicing Catholic and he's not stupid. And if
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: you can bine all that, I think it makes him
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: one of those dangerous people to potentially be president of
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: the United States in all of human history. I mean,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: the demon whispers to him, you know, God's commands, God's
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: you know, could he be in a position where he's
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: doing stuff because demons are telling him to?
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: And it's so interesting that I come up from an
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: extended family which is very religious. It had been decades
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: since I've ever heard the term demon in an actual sentence,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: and I've heard it in two years by the two
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: most prominent people in the new Right today, Tacker Carlson J. Devans.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: They both seriously talk about demons.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: And now Joe Rogan, who is a popular wise of
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: all this stuff, I think he believes that too. He
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: didn't push back, right, did Joe Rogan push back?
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: I think it was more the voice of reason in
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: that discussion, but Joe Rogan claimed they were actually aliens
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: or maybe humans from the future.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I take this every day of the week over they
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: are demons.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: True, true, but they're all nuts. I mean, these people
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: are just did singe all right? That that kind of
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: covers jd Evans H. Thanks, thanks Nicos reminding you, winding
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: all of you out there that Nicos actually went through reading,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: actual reading JD. Vance's books.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: So it was also expensive a team euros on Kindle.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: Oh that is expensive. Yeah, I'm surprised because usually kind
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: of new books that are best sellers are usually cheaper
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: than that. So, you know, greedy JD Evans is greedy
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: on top of everything else. All right, so we're gonna
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: turn to a super chats. I remind you all that
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: this is a way to support the work that Nicos
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: and I do. Uh. You know, we're going to split
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: the uh, we split the proceeds equally. I think Nichols
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: will be very happy with the amount that came in today,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: although there's work associated with it, so we'll get to
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: that in a minute. But let's see. So, but keep
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: keep on contributing, right, You've got to make up for
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: it last week, which was not a very good week.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: So so keep on contributing, and you can do stickers
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: and some of you have. Let me let me thank
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: the stick of people. Let's see, we got normative, normative Randroid,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you, exit, Roland and Bonnie and somebody else there.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: Let's see there were more of you, I know, were
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: you hiding. There's Greg and there's Stephen Harper, Thank you Steve.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: And there's Marie Alein and there's Greg again.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: And I also want to publicly thank don or someone
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: who these people are humble enough they don't want their
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: name mentioned, but someone who made the donation to me,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: thank you very much. Also publicly I said I will
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: give a public thank you without mentioning a name.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: But you know who you are.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Gail.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: And cool all right, so oh and also complain Lebron
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 3: James has been transferred to Philadelphia.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: Seventy six is not a single question about Lebron. I
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: thought we became a partly a sport so in the
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: World Cup, and now suddenly no questions on sports. That's disappointing.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: I think. I think they associate you with football, so
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: you have to I have to build up your credentials
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: around basketball.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: So basketball is the number one thing. Football is below basketball.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: Really I didn't know that. Oh yeah, of course, yeah,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: I mean Lebron James has gone to Philadelphia. Jalen Brown.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: The Celtics traded Jaalen Brown, which I don't know. Just
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense to me, although they tell me
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: that if you look at the moneyball statistics, Jalen Brown
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: is not that good of a player. Doesn't make any
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: sense to me. This is what I read, right, This
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: is what the Celtics excuse. Not only did they trade
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: him to Philadelphia, they traded in Philadelphia got nothing in return.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: They got Bob Kiss in return is the term. So
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: I have no idea, what the Celtics are thinking, what
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: they're doing, why they did this. I mean, he he's
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: the player that had the most hard on that team
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: and worked hard and anyway.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: You know, so last time, last time, this team was
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: fool without injuries, they won the league.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: So it just doesn't make any sense to me. And
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: he did he had his best year ever last year,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: so to trade him after the best year ever.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: Best year ever, but the other best player was missing most.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: Of the season, so yes, so yeah, it doesn't make
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: any sense to me. But yeah, I mean, are you
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: going to now predict the Philadelphia's gonna win the Eastern Conference?
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: But it's not easy because there's the New York Knicks
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: around the East. Janis is now in Miami, which is exciting.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: Yani is partnered with the best coach in the NBA,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: so it's going to be an exciting East Eastern confidence.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: But I'm a Lebron fanboy. I'm gonna example in the
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: Philadelphia ban vagoon.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you think Lebron still has legs, he still
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: can can you really contribute to a team like Philadelphia.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: He's still comfortably in the top ten at forty two.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: As he is particularly now that he will be in
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: a team that he doesn't have to do everything.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he won't be the scorer. He won't
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: be he doesn't have to be the lead scorer. He
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: can be much more of a playmaker on this team.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: I mean he's got he's surrounded by by three really
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: good score You know, a lot of it will depend
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: on in bed what's his name? Staying healthy?
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and Bid not getting and finding a way to
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: shave the ball because they use as both of of
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: Lebron and of Embid and of Jellen Brown and of
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 3: Maxwell and of the guy who plays a shooting As
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: we say, they're gonna need three different balls. But if
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: they managed to figure this out, it's gonna at least
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: it's gonna be a very fun team to watch, an
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: exciting project to watch.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: Who's the coach? Because I think it's gonna be important, right.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: I'm drawing a blank ye to the guy who won
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: it with the Toronto the No, Nick Nolty is.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: An actor, but it is Nick something. I can see
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: his face.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the guy with a nerdy the nerdy Canadian guy.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, so we got to five hundred dollars reviews to
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: you whoa. Yeah, so one from chasbad I sent you
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: emails with the with the with the name of the thing.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: Charsba wants us to review the Rick and Morty season two,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: episode six, The Ricks must be crazy? You can you
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: can find it streaming on something. If you can't find it,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: let me know. I'll find it for you.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: But you know what, five dollars, I'm gonna find it.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: There you go. So this is Rick and Morty. So
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: it's a comedy show from what the eighties or the nineties.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: I don't remember. I never really watched it, so thank you, Chasbot.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: I'll check it out. I never really watched the show,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: so I don't know much about it.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: And then.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: We have Michael, who says, can you react to the
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: two thousand and fourth film Troy with Brad Pitt? Much
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: better than the Odyssey? And there are a lot of
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: themes about being a secondhander in the film.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: Seriously, guys, you watched so just think of Agamemnon. So
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: you watched this Agamemnon and you think the Agamemnon in
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: two thousand and four, who is like my drank ankle
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: from Crete is superior.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: But we're gonna we're gonna do that review. It's gonna
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: be it's gonna be fun.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: So we'll do the review instead of just reacting Michael,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: We're gonna review it. My memory of the movie Toy
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: is not great, partially because I don't think it's a
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: great movie, so it didn't really leave much much with
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: me qua movie as a movie. I have no doubt
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: that The Artist is a better movie. But we'll wait
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: for the actual review of of of Choi.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: And any any excuse to watch Brad Pete again is welcome.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: I didn't know you had a he had a question bad,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: But okay, let's good.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Boy crass when mancrass question bad?
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: Logically, yeah, I have it on Denzel Washington, so I'll
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: pretty much watch anything Denzel Washington is in. I think
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: Denzel's is the best act of his generation. But let's
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: see West asked one hundred dollars. Thank you, Wes, This
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: is thank you generous. Is Jade Events more or less
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: dangerous than Trump? Because he actually has an ideology? Maybe
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: he'll be said, maybe he'll be easier to counter politically. Also,
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: I can't respect anyone who converts to Catholicism after the
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: horrible scandals. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting about he's mentioned that.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: But in the dim hypothesis, Leonard Peacock says, you know,
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: the integrating principle of an authoritarian in the future will
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: be religion. But it won't be Catholicism. He says, because
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: nobody can overcome no religion can overcome the scandals, know,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: the periophil scandals, the Catholic Church. The Catholic just suffered,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: and yet it hasn't stopped a big wave of people,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: particularly smart in intellectual to converting to Cathosicism. So I
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: guess I wouldn't be so sure that the scandals will
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: would stop them. So what do you think more or
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: less dangerous than Trump?
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: More dangerous?
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: So first of all, let me say a big thing
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 3: to the people who contributed before.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: And we're gonna spend a lot of time.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: We're gonna watch the movies, We're gonna do some research,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: we're gonna come up with good reviews networks. And thanks
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: to our friend also for his contribution. So these days
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: trying to understand j. Devan's a bit better. I also
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: dove a bit to the rabbit whole of Catholicism. And
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: there is this book Why we Are Catholics. There are
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 3: some podcasts on Catholicism. I also research a bit the
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 3: material from Opus Day. It's absolutely breathtaking how how they
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: can create a pretzell of reality and servio contradiction, and
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: how they make it sound as if it's persuading, whereas
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: it shouldn't be able to persuade a twelve year old.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: Why do am I mentioning this?
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: If you see the moral acrobatics that Jay Devans does
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: when it comes to the Catholic School or the Catholic
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: pedophilia scandals, he's actually telling you it's absolutely horrible. But
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 3: also it doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 3: Notice capitalism, which has taken humanity from the mad and
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 3: elevated to the skyscrapers. Some people in the quasi capitalist
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 3: country getting over those is on capitalist. This systematic abuse
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: that has going on for so long has nothing to
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 3: do with Catholicism. So have no doubt that they're going
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: to find a way in the same way the can
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 3: persuade you that, yeah, communion is like, yeah, that's the
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 3: body and blood of Christ, but it is not the
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 3: body of blood and Christ.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: But it is.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: In the same way they're going to find you a
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: way to persuade you that this is not the real
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: Catholic surch Now. Comparison to Trump, the one big advantage
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: that Trump has is that Trump is a political animal
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: like no one else. He has a particular type of
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 3: political charisma that Jay Devance has not got. If he
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: gets his way, though, if he finds himself in the
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: White House, Vans is going to be way more dangerous
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: because he's an ideal logue and he knows that Trump
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 3: is not an ideologue. In a podcast, he says it
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: was very fine moment, says, I know many people think
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 3: that Trump is this radical for capitalist basically, but no,
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: he's actually a radical pragmatist. This is the term Advance uses.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 3: And I was thinking, is there a single person who
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: thinks that Trump is this radical fire brunt for capital
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: because I haven't made any of these people. So if
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: he finds his way in the White House, Vance is
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: more dangerous.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do think he's easier to defeat because,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: as Nico said, he's not as a political animal as
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: Trump is. I don't think he could forge the kind
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: of coalition that Trump did. I think even though he
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: says all these things, about the working class. I don't
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: think working class people will actually like him. He he
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: you know, there's a there's aloofness to him. He's a
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: little condescending. It's like his sister, who are you to
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: tell me in the Appalachi you're from here. I think
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of people, a lot of working class people,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: will treat him that way. He's not very charismatic at all,
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: and so I really don't think he has a chance
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: of winning unless the Democrats put up somebody so offensive
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: that people will view jd. Vance as just the less
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: of two evils.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: But whatever he's done till now, he has succeeded impressively.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, so you can't don't underestimate him. And he has
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: strong allies in people like Trump's son, you know, Trump's
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: sons I think are big, big supporters of JD. Vance
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: and people like Taker Colson who have large audiences.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: And again he's building a coalition with the worst parts
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: of the other side, So you don't know what will
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: come out of this.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: Jennifer says, love you guys, thank you. Jennifer really appreciate it.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: Let's see Hunter. Hunter says one hundred dollars, thank you Hunter,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: and certain Vance envies the Silicon Valley crowd he wants
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: to surrounded himself with. He did not fit in, couldn't
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: keep up, and hates them for it.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: I don't get this at all. He did fit in.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 3: He is on big stages with these people, in these
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 3: closed conferences, and now he has more power than these people. Ladies,
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: remember that line by Frank Anderwood. These people whould just
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: go for money, They're so naive. I've got the real power.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: So I think j Devans now sees that he has
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: the advantage over these people. So he probably says, I
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: was on the same table with you, and now I'm
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 3: over you.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: YEA Hunter continues, says, he talks about the disdain elite
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: have for working class this as a pretext for retaliating
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: against people who didn't like him. I think that's too
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: much psycho psychology, and I'm not sure there's evidence of that. Again,
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: he was in pe the Tales in a circle, which
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: would have put him at the table with the palenteer guys.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm sure he's on pretty good terms with
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: the guy who runs the University of asked the donor
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: who funds the University of Austin, whose name slips on
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: my mind because he's co founder Palenteer. You know, Peter
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: Tiel is a it is a big shot. I think
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: he's potentially in with Elon Musk, although it's how to
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: tell with Alan you know where he's going. I'm not
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: sure if he really I mean, he might envy them,
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: but he's also in that he's in with them and
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: he will have control over them. So I don't know
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: that this is all driven by some kind of psychology
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: of envy or psychology of resentment, or psychology of I'm
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: going to retaliate against them, although you know, they might
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: be an elements of that. They might be that Hillbally
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: attitude coming out of you know, I'm going to screw
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: the rich.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: And we're talking about the wanna be openly, wanna be
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: central planet, So he views everyone as a pone. This
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: is what central planners do.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: By Christian or Chris, not Christian Chris, Christians Joan and
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: Nikaus please go into more detail and vents and his wife.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: How can you reckon start being married to an Indian
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: American woman with leading while with leading a party increasingly
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: anti immigrants, an anti non white altruism or Christian views
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: on sex player role.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: So some very important contexts. He met her when he
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: was an atheist. See, and.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: She comes from a family of high achievers, and she
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 3: herself was a high achiever. See landed some impressive jobs
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 3: from what I know from this world that you can
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 3: only land them through merit, like working with very important
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 3: judges straight out of university. So sees a woman who
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: has accomplished, who has accomplished things, and he is the
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 3: ultimate success story. And she's not an immigrant herself. She's
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 3: not an immigrant. So there's and and again. He met
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: here at a completely different mindset and when he was
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 3: a completely different person. And don't be surprised by people
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 3: holding contradictions in your mind. If you believe there are
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 3: demons out there, your whole life is going to be
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 3: full of contradictions.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: There's no surprise there.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I think it's basically think
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: about as compartmentalization. He can he can, you know, love
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: his wife. We don't know that he does, but let's
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: see he does, and he can. He can then feel
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: it's his duty to lead the country. And yes, he
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: has to deal with some racists, and he has to
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: deal with some people that he might disagree with. But
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: he has to unite the country, and he has to
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: he has to lead it. He has to lead the party,
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: so so be it. And and he has to be
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: nice to people who hate his wife. But the greater
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: good is more important. This was where altruism collectivism man
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: the greater good of the country, the greater good of
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: the party, the greater good of whatever. His desire for
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: power is more important than you know, than the particulars
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: of his marriage, if you will, so, thanks, Chris, really
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: appreciate the support. Shredy says, this show deserves all the
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: support and patron as it gets, and then some thanks
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: for keeping this running each week. Thanks Srudy, We appreciate
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: the support. Nathan, Nathan, there's two questions, why do communists
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: tend to be opposed to religion given that there is
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of overlap between their philosophies. And the second
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: question is our social is more willing to accept religion
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: than communists and if so why.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: First of all, with the exception of their.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 3: Soviet Union, it's not even very arkurate that communists were
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 3: very hostile to church. In many countries, they cooperated with
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 3: the chats, I mean they forced the church to cooperate.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 3: The rang and file communists does have some affinity to
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 3: Christianity in terms of it is supposed to care about
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 3: the poor, and their main problem with the Church is
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 3: its hypocrisy that you tell us you support the poor
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: and yet you don't support the poor at some point.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: And also the famous quote by Marx religion is the
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 3: opium of the masses. Its completely misunderstood. Marx does not
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 3: mention it as disgusting. He's mostly saying it as a
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 3: matter of fact that yeah, religion is you know people,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: they have horrible life, so they find some solace in religion.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 3: And as time went by, religion and the socialism communists,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 3: I don't see a big difference between the two came together.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 3: Think about liberation theology in Latin America. So I don't
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: accept the premise that there is this militant difference between.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: Communist and religion. In Spain, last week we talk about
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: the Spanish Evil War. Very often the.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: Communists would save the priests from the hands of the anarchists.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, as they should, because the anarchists were doing
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 3: horrible things to the priests. But don't have in your
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 3: mind is that everywhere and every time and forever. The
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 3: Communists are against the Church. They are against the Church
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 3: to the point where they still believed in enlightenment and
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: they viewed themselves as modernities number one spokesperson. And to
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: the degree that they were fighting over let's say, common
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 3: they were over a disputed territory.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: A very good yeah, and lots of socialists who are religious.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: Stalin. By the way, Stalin started from the Church. He
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 3: used chearch metaphors throughout his throughout his life, and compared
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 3: to other groups during his days, that church was not
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: even among the top targets of his of his persecution
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: during Stalin days, because before that it was very seriously persecuted.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Ryan says, in your view, what makes Vance a Christian?
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: What does he do that suggests he believes in the
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: teaching of Jesus Christ. I've now read his book.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, that he's used himself as a Christian.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: He organizes his whole life story around Christianity, and he's
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 3: telling us in his book that he plans to govern
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 3: as a Christian.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: So what makes anyone a Christian? It's you know, it's
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: not that they literally see Jesus.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he goes to church, he's you know,
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: he talks to talk, So I withse, I don't know
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: what makes a Christian a Christian. Beyond beyond that, you know,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: he's not a mother Tuisa, so he's not that kind
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: of a Christian. But not every Christian is going to
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: be a mother Tuition in a sense of leaving everything
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: going to help the poor. I don't think that's a
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: requirement of Christianity. The Pope doesn't even do that.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 3: And I gave examples from the book. Well, I think
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 3: he's a genuinely trying to be an altruist. Well where
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: he says, for example, I want to help the imigrants,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 3: but I don't want to destroy the countries, or what
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 3: do I do I have to help them? Or when
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: he turns to his wife, what if our boy goes
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 3: to a very esteam school and this is going to
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 3: perpetuate privilege, that's altruism?
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep. Ryan. If Catholic school teaching says the targeting
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: civilians and wars wrong, why doesn't Vance publicly criticize Putin
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: and defend Ukraine on this basis? Isn't he serious? Isn't
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: he serious about his religion?
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: Well that's a question.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Christians are constantly engaged in contradictions. You know,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: why why do Christians go to Whoa? Why do they
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: kill uh non Christians? Why do they Why did the
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: Protestants kill Catholics and Catholic kills Protestants in mass in
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: huge numbers and un you know, unprecedented numbers. Why you know,
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: why did they burne people at the stake? Why did
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: they inflict in quisition? Why did they kick out the
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: Jews from if they love their neighbor like themselves, why
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: they kick the Jews out of Spain? Christians are filled
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: with contradictions. It doesn't mean that they don't believe in
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: Catholic social teaching. They also have a vast body of
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: work that explains the contradictions, that justifies all the horror
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: that they have committed throughout the millennium. So, you know,
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: if you're trying to catch them, but you believe this,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: you'll never win that one, because the Catholics actually have
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: written about every single one of these things and explain it,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: or explain it away, or rationalize it in some way
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: or another. You know, why doesn't he criticize the United
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: States bombing the drug boats and the Caribbeans or or
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: the killing of a killing of innocent people by ice.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's not going to criticize any of that,
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: partially because it's all being done for greater good.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 3: And anyone who thinks that Christians somewhere out there have
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: good answers, do the experiment I did in the last
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 3: couple of weeks. Go and find two three the asta
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 3: what are the best, most convincing sources on why would
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 3: someone be a Catholic? Read these sources and realize that
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 3: these wouldn't pass the screw me of a twelve year
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 3: old with some basic thinking, and so don't be surprised.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: How does this make sense? It is meant not to
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: make sense.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, and again Catholics social teaching doesn't teach the targeting
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: civilians in war is one. You know. I don't know
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: where it teaches that, because Catholics in much of the
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: history of targeted civilians. So certain branches of Cathosicism teach that.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: But it depends on the context and depends on what
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: you're doing, are great good or not doing it very good?
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 3: Remember, people in World War Two, the Allies were bombing
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: French civilians knowingly that French civilians would die of course
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 3: they wanted to kill the germs that were around, but
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 3: this was considered normal. We don't live in times where
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 3: you're supposed to give electricity and water and food to
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 3: your end.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: These are very modern monsters. So why and it goes again,
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: if Catholics Solcio teaching says we are all one human family,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: regardless of nationality, why doesn't Vans speak out against ice
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: in its obvious abuse? Is serious serious Catholic? Yes, he's
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: a serious Catholic. Again. You know what do you I
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: don't know what you expect. You know is you know
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: why didn't the pope speak up against child abuse, against pedophilia?
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: You know that that is a that is a whoific
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: according to uh supposedly social teaching. But you don't not
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: become a Catholic because they don't meet your Wayan's definition
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: of what it means to be a Catholic.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: What's last week's episode?
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 3: Why do Catholics lie on Eves Franco who broke every
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 3: single rule of war? Forget Catholic, every single omon humanity
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 3: room of rule of war like that. You don't bring
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 3: Moroccan troops to rape women or go see go see
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 3: the comments. By the way, did you see the comments
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 3: we got in the Franco, the vid, the main video
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 3: and the highlight you made absolutely disappointing. How many people
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 3: who I assume there are our audience, because otherwise why
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 3: would they watch every possible excuse for Franco? Or they
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 3: said that we are lying, we made up the Moroccan
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 3: rape stories, where there's not a single historical source that
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 3: doesn't mention this.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think they're I think they were attracted to
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: the video because it was a fanco and they they're
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: now regular watchers, although you know it could be some
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: regular watchers. Who knows and the goal is to go
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: so big that we don't know who views. Indeed, Andrew
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: for Nikos, my take on Clavicular a playboy's clavicular, a
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: playboy's vapid, insane journey to nothing looks maxing is absurd,
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: but a twenty his contents not particularly more debased than
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: the usual tastes of our cultural youth in recent was
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: the continuation in recent Hannity and David Rubin interviews beyond curiosity.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: Far from judging the hedonism of the right purportedly hates
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: heathens of the right purportedly hates they suddenly admire him,
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: linked to the weirdo, white, superficial outside focused on aesthetics,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: you'll take.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 3: My take is that it's midnight and I got confused.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: But let me tell you what they got. By the way,
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 3: I think Clavicular as we speak, is on his way
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 3: to Russia, because every every person who wants to be
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 3: edgy gets this mild rotting idea of contrarianism, that everything
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 3: I've been told is good is bad, and vice versa.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 3: Everyone tells Rossia is bad. I'm gonna go to Rossia.
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 3: So Lukes Maxing has some element of aspiration in it
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 3: that I want to make some improvements in my life,
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: some improvements on myself. So I recognize this noble root
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 3: in it. But I don't know much about this person.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 3: I just know that this whole Miliaire is absolutely degenerate
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 3: and decontent, even compared to its own standards. We did
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: a whole episode with Yarn and the Manosphere. Compare the
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 3: Manosphere of the two thousand and five with today.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: It is a day and night.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 3: So I haven't followed closely Clavicular, but keep an eye
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 3: on him. He's gonna tell us, probably how everything is
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 3: cheaper in Russia. How the tube is a cleaner. So
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 3: he's walking on the steps of Tiger Carlson.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: So he practices something called facial bone smashing.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a lurband meat.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: So this is, you know, I don't know, Wikipedia steroids
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: and using crystal math as an appetite suppresent. But do
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: you think that's all? We don't know?
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 3: No, No, maybe the math thing, maybe it is true,
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know. But the bones mashing thing, I've heard
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 3: it's a lurban meat. So this is to make your
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 3: face more more angular. The funny thing with clavicular if
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 3: you see before and after photos, I think he looks
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 3: more attractive before he started. The looks maxing. But and
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 3: I'm saying this in a heterosexual way, but I don't know.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: Do you think he's just doing plastic surgery? Is that
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: what looks maxing is?
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: Looks maxing is you try to optimize in the same
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 3: way that people will try to optimize a lengthy life.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 3: They try to optimize looking good. But it almost has
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 3: something very feminine in it, like you, you know, you're
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 3: obsessed with it, something very sallow and superficial and narcissistic.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 3: And it's so weird when this gets intertwined with the manosphere,
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 3: because there's something very traditionally non masculininit I'll just say this.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so Andrew says something about Hannity and David
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: Ruben that they that they seem to admire him in
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: some way. You know, they criticize the hiddenism on the left,
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: but then when somebody on the way they kind of ant.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 3: And I don't know, I'm just gonna say that any
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 3: of those this is this is a field. I've been very,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 3: very wrong in the past twenty twenty. I was disagreeing
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 3: with your own for example, Andrew Tate. I thought, well,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 3: this is basically a good trend, you know, telling people
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 3: be more ambitious, actually just a clone.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: And I was completely wrong.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 3: So yeah, very often these people go down paths that
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 3: other people predict and I don't predict because I focus
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 3: on just self development.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: There's a it looks like there's a there's a big
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: New York Times article about Clavicula, So I'll have to
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: check it out because i'd never heard. I hadn't heard
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: anything about.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 3: Him, So yeah, I think you have because someone asked
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 3: us on the Monastery episode, But and.
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: I forgot already, so that that's how much it stuck.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: H Richard, Thanks much, good work, Thank you Richard. Appreciate that.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: Mary Ellen says, thanks to Nichos for reading Vance's undoubtedly
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: dreadful book. Vnce is so creepy. Also, please tell me
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: what I should know about Lebron James unless you already have.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 3: What you should know is that he's legitimately in the
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 3: discussion of being the best basket player of all time.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 3: So whereas in football, I think there is no discussion.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 3: And people who put Ronaldo and Messi in the same sentence,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 3: it should be the last discussion you ever have with
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 3: them about football. If someone puts Lebron and Michael Jordan
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 3: in the same sentence, there is a discussion to be had.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 3: And this is the biggest compliment one can pay to Lebron.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 3: Something about the book again, Jadi probably now he has
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 3: a ghost writer, but he's a good author. There's a
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 3: reason he'll Billy Legy became a best seller. And I mean,
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: I read this book in two days. It's not and
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 3: I didn't skip anything.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: It reads.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 3: You read it with interest. I mean it is creepy
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 3: at part, it's very uncomfortable. In other parts, but it
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 3: is a Paige Starner.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: Right, Linda says, thank you, Thank you, Linda, thank you. Chris,
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: I asked you on this question a few weeks ago,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: But when did they asked Nicos? Is Nikos an NFL fan?
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: If so, then what does he think of Tom Brady's
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: competing against and associating with internet provoker Toural Logan, Paul,
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: I find it very sad.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 3: Yes, I've only watched one NFL Super Bowl. It was
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, Eli Manning versus versus Tom Brady
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: and Eli Manning one. So it's too much of a
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 3: set piece sport. I don't follow it. I cannot follow
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 3: a sport that I'm not going to be an expert team.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 3: So I just follow basketball and football because I can
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 3: understand them. I cannot follow sports I can't understand. Is
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 3: loudon Paul now doing every single sport? Wasn't you're doing
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 3: boxing or something I don't have missed? But I like
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 3: Tom Brady as a cobductiveness role model and the way
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 3: he approached his work, and the same with Bill Belichick,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 3: and the same with that other coach who wrote the
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 3: book The Score Takes care of Itself. One of the
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 3: best self development books. Read it even if you don't
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: follow American football, So.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: You have no opinion about Brady's you know, association with
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: Logan Paul.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: Zero opinion and zero knowledge.
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: I mean in any opinion and knowledge about Logan Paul
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: as a you know, how bad is he?
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: I have no idea. Is he the guy who fought
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: with Tyson?
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: I have no idea.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: I think so, but I've watched that fight.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 3: It was very underwhelming, and it looked a bit like
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: it was almost agreed that it would be a tie
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 3: or it would be decided on technical points.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: But the quick answer is, I don't know.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: Andrew, I may have missed it if you covered what
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: Vance said was the essence of what led him to
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: reject atheism and adopt mysticism. Given the total context of
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: what you know about him and his ideas, what do
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: you think was the cause?
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 3: Actually we didn't specifically answer that at the cause. There
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 3: is something which is understandable where he said I look
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 3: around and I don't find meaning. That we live in
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 3: times that are meaning less, that there is no moral framework,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 3: for example, in the economy, and he is right. Where
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 3: he's wrong is that you can only find this in religion.
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 3: He cannot imagine of a moral code outside of religion.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 3: So this is the main reason why he converted. That
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 3: he gave birth to a boy and he said, I
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 3: want to make this.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: Boy a virtuous man, but how can you do it
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: without religion.
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: It's the same reason Ian hussy Ali gave. It's the
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: same reason they all give. They can't imagine reality and
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: a meaning outside outside of religion. And even though they
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: read invent, they don't get it from Invent, so they
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: they don't understand ivent. They don't dig deep enough, they
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: don't integrated enough, they don't really get it. And that
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: that it keeps you keep seeing the same phenomena with
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: very smart people. I mean, it's a smart people.
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 3: And remember the most repeated thing in the book is
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 3: judge them buy their fruits or something like that. He
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 3: puts it the way it is in the Bible. So
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 3: this means we live in a culture which is decadent.
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 3: And this came at the same time as the retreat
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 3: of religion. Therefore it has to be because of the
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 3: retreat of.
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: Religion, all right, Jacob says, driving from Saint Louis to
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: Ventura in California, any recommendations for audiobooks started economics and
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: one lesson, but I need another eight hour books.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 3: Be very careful audible books that are about non fiction,
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 3: dry stuff. I've never come closer to falling asleep on
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 3: drive inside the town, so don't have long drives with
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 3: monotonous books. Prefer music. The best audible book of all
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 3: time is The founder Head, at least the European version.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 3: It has the best narrator ever, So if you haven't
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 3: read The founder Head for some time, give it give
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 3: it a chance. Also very enjoyable as audible is the
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 3: book by David Goggins Can't Hurt Me. So this is
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 3: another recommendation, but prefer be careful. It's very easy to
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 3: fall asleep with audible with audiobooks.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: Right, I've never come close to fall asleep with other books.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: But different people are going to going to respond differently. Jacob,
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: is inflation preferable to progressive tax hikes since it will
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: put negative pressure on consumption rather than on tax hikes
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: high income earners. I leave this to you a hundred percent.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think inflation is a tax, so
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: it's a consumption tax in that sense. Is it better
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: than explicit tax hikes. No, because implicit taxes are always
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: worse than explicit taxes. So because you can get away
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: with them and and you don't point a finger it
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: who's responsible. So hidden taxes are the worst kind of taxes.
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: Inflation is the worst tax, and it it legitimately makes
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: it so that people who are having who are struggling,
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: struggle much more. I mean, it's a it's a very
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: regressive tax in that way. So put people suffer from
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: inflation more than anybody else. So it's it's just a
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: it's just a horrific tax that's under the table. It's hid.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: People don't know what's going on. It's what leads to fear.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: That fear often leads to political change and political resentment.
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: If you raise taxes, okay, everybody knows. Everybody adjusts. My
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 2: taxes used to be twenty eight percent. Now they're thirty
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 2: five percent. It sucks, but okay, I see, I can
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: adjust to it. But what do you do with inflation?
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: Inflation is just a killer. So no, inflation is about
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: the worst thing you can do. Let's see.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 3: Also to remind people to give us ideas, we don't
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 3: have this, we don't have agreed on the topic for
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 3: next week.
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: So any good ideas wellcome.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: Right, I like numbers, says, can you give an example
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 2: of a lefty for vance somebody on the left to
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: his pro vance? Right now?
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 3: I think it's I give the opposite example. Left is
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 3: the Jay Devans appreciates. So my prediction is he's casting
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 3: a net.
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: We don't know.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 3: He's too toxic yet for this net to attract fiesh
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 3: Let's see what's going to happen in two years, because
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 3: again it matters a lot who is going to be
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 3: on the demograph. If it's going to be a freak,
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 3: many blue collar workers will feel closer culturally in any
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 3: possible way, maybe to vance than to their own party.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 3: I'm sure though the Democrats know this, so you expect
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 3: that they will take it into accordance on their campaign.
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: We'll see. But you know, I think it's the toxic
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: right now because it's Trumps and no, no leftis is
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: going to support him right now. But you know, watch
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: how the left has restarted to tack a Cousins announcement
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: about his maybe third political party, particularly people like Senec
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: you know, the the extreme left, anti Israel left. The
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: day of responding to the concusson Jadvans is just one
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: notch away from the co Cosson. It's not that big
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 2: of a difference.
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: Actually his closer maybe even Actually no, I'm not sure.
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe you're right, Chris. I want to know Nichols's favorite
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 2: music details, please, And Joan, did you say Don Watkins
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: is a heavy metal fan? Yes, Don Watkins is a
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: heavy metal fan, one of his one of his very
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 2: few flaws.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 3: I listened to everything from calling me stanthemes, pop rock,
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 3: it's it's it's absolutely crazy if you see my playlist.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 3: So and I'm not an official nod of music. I
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 3: cannot appreciate good classical music. Most of the time. I
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 3: listened to jazz. But if I had to pick one thing,
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 3: I would say sixties and seventies classic rock, Doors, led Zeppelin, actually,
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 3: Lord Doors, led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd. These are the top
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 3: for me. Oh and and a lot of Greek stuff.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: That you wouldn't know. Guys, who do I know that's Greek?
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 3: I know, lower lower quality, not things like Yannis or
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 3: Mickey Field or As or things like that. All right,
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 3: but I'm curious, who do you know who is Greek?
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 3: You probably know Yanny because we've discussed, but who else.
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: You know when we were I mean, there was a
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: lot of Greek music in Israel. God I can't remember
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: his name. Yeah, I can't remember.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 3: First experience I get in the taxi, there's Greek music.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: First experience in Israel.
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 3: I get a new better or a taxi from the
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 3: airport and there's Greek music in the car.
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: It's not unusual. Chris, I never would like to be
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: in the mind of Ja the events. It seems like
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 2: a very dark place to be. I think it is.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: And he's open about this.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 3: He's having all these distractive thoughts that all his happiness
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 3: is going to be taken away, that a bear is
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 3: going to attack his child, that a trank driver is
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 3: going to hit his family. So he has this radical vulnerability.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: That makes it likable.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 3: And my prediction is when he's going to be on
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 3: the Central States in politics, he's going to use some
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 3: of that.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: Michael, America is obsessed with religion, other mystical ideas. Has
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: n brought anything to this country? Well, I mean, does
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: she bring anything to you? Are you in this country? Right? So?
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: I mean it's I don't know what it means brought
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: anything to this country? How many people have changed their
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 2: lives because of RN She's brought a huge amount. Has
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: she fundamentally changed the culture of America? No, hows she
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: convinced millions of Americans not to be Christian and mystical
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: and adopt reason.
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: No, but.
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know what brought anything means She's obviously bought something.
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 3: Think about it this way, guys, if it were not
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 3: for Ian Rant would be here today criticizing j Evans
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 3: using some Milton Friedman type of arguments that immigration is
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 3: good for GDP. That would be the because in your
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 3: own soul on this Saturday night, how he's wrong in
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 3: terms of his projections on the economic impact of immigration.
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's never you never should ask a question
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: about has when brought anything to I mean, as bought
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 2: anything to your life. That's the only question that matters
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: in the end of the day.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: Wait, I think it also matters.
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 3: It also matters why her cultural impact is not where
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 3: it should be And this is on us.
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: So this is a legitimate question.
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: I think, Well, it's a legitimate question in a sense
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: of why aren't they enough people that have taken nine
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: men's ideas seriously, and and you know we could we
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: could have a discussion about why that is. But I
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: just find she brought anything to this country. I mean,
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: you change one mind at a time. There's no way
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: to do it any other way. And the question has
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 2: how she changed minds? Yes, not enough to change the culture. Okay,
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 2: then the question is why and and that's why. Maybe
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: it's on us that we haven't done our job. I like,
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: I like numbers says didn't Catholic punish home worship in
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: fifteen hundreds.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: Home worship or home and worship.
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: Home home worshiping at home? Yes, okay, yeah, I mean
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: religion was supposed to be something you did communally, worshiping
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 2: with something in the community, and needed to be in
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: a church. So yeah, I think that's part of the
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: Protestant rebellion against the Catholics.
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 3: I'm laughing because YouTube Algorim has realized that I'm trying
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 3: to understand more about Catholicism, and they're sending me all
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 3: these videos. Apparently there's a trend that now you can
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 3: have something like a temple in your house, so it's
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 3: there are videos how to turn your closet into a
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 3: Catholic praying room, so and Jay Devance. I think he's
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 3: having a room, which is like he says he's having
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 3: a mass at home.
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: Though I might be wrong.
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 2: Here, just Poky, says Nichols. Do you happen to know
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: how ticket is doing? He went to an objective's conference
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: and just disappeared online after and when sign any sign
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: he will be back?
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 3: Well, he didn't disappear like that. He released a video,
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 3: then he released an update or how he's doing. I
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 3: spoke to him when I changed jobs because I thought,
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 3: you know, I should tell him he's alive and he's recovering.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 3: I hope he will be back because first of all,
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 3: I missed him as a YouTube YouTube voice.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: And yeah, he's he's on the way back. Let's put
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: it this way. That's the last thing I knew about him.
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: All Nwick. Is there a path from Marco or Rubio
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: to become the next year's president? Sure? I mean jd
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 2: Vance is not particularly popular, you know, the the Marco
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: ub might decide to run against him. He might have
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 2: to resign from government to do that. I don't know.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's I don't think that's crazy to
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: believe that he that that would happen, and then it
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: would be dependent on primary voters. And you know, I
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 2: don't know to the extent that MAGA will dominate the primaries.
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: JD vance as the as an advantage, to the extent
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 2: that other Republicans that are fed up with Trump come
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 2: out and vote, they will probably vote for somebody like
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 2: Marco Rubio. So I think there's a chance, but I don't,
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. It's hard to call it
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: at this point.
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 3: And remember that infamous, disgusting, shameful White House meeting with Zelenski.
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: While J. Devans was doing his thing, Marco Ruby was
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: just sitting.
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 3: There, and at the end he tweeted, thank you, mister
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 3: President for putting America's interest first. I'm never going to
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 3: forget that, and I will not forgive him for that.
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 3: Obviously preferred him to J. Devance, But again something so
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 3: your character and somethings are.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: A red flag. Absolutely absolutely he sold this all. I mean,
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: he really sold this. So Keith, please consider shows on
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: Judge so Well and Oswald spent of ignored yet hugely
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: influential the evils of left and right for over a century.
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 3: When we can put this source in the agenda for
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 3: October November, because this requires lots of work. Particularly Spangler.
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 3: His books have catchy titles. You think it's going to
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 3: be fun reading, it's very heavy stuff. We could do
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 3: something about the intellectual predecessors to fascism, the intellectual things
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 3: that they were not fastest themselves, but paved the way
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 3: for fastest and in Germany for national socialism, for example,
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 3: about the faulty culture.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 2: We could do these things, Fel says. Nsaid, romantic art
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: presents man as it might be ought to be. But
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 2: if we project ourselves through the ideal to the idea,
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: like God, don't we always end up falling short of
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 2: our own expectations. Good question, and I leave it to you.
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it depends on what you take
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 2: Gold to be. Right. You're you're not. You're not as
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: smart as Gold, right, So it can't be that you're
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: filtering it through his creating a moto is intellectual achievements.
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 2: You have to project him as an ideal, as a
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: moral character, and there's no reason that you have to
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: fall short as Gold is a moral character. Again, you're
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: not going to be an engineer like him, or scientist
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: like him, or any particular like him. So the idea
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: of art is not to project any particulars about the man,
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 2: but the principle behind him, the principle behind the ideal,
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 2: and to strive towards that. So it's not a I'm
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 2: falling short. It's I still got work to do, which
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: is which is a very different attitude. You know, you
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: can take that out of you have. I can't make it,
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: so I'm not gonna try or say yeah, I'm moving
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: in that direction and there's still work to do, and
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 2: I'm still doing network and it's and it pays off, right,
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 2: So it's not work as sacrifice of work as burden.
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: All right, Ryan, how about Shake of our Castro Cuban
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: Revolution for Nikos and your own show? Thanks guys, love
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: all shows. Also maybe Mao his little Red Book founding
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: of Current Taiwan.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, look, Fidel Castro is so fascinating. I'm not sure
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 3: how much interest that would be if your on is
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 3: only it's okay with it, we can we can't do
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 3: something about it. Mole's Red Book is just quotes that
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 3: are quote that the recipents are related a peasants. Literally,
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 3: this is who the quotes are and for so it's
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 3: at the level.
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 2: Of coming on Mao and communism in China. I don't.
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people don't know the story.
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, do you do you want to settle on this
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: for next week?
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 2: Sure, we can do Mau next week.
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but up to the point of Mao's death. So
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 3: not including thanks Olpinkos.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 2: This includes some.
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 3: Extra visits that I can't do at the moment. Okay,
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 3: Mao And yeah, there's gonna be a lot of freaky stuff.
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: It's you know, so the history of is coming to power,
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 2: the the you know, the the greatly forward, the cultural evolution. Yeah,
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: all of that.
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: I'll just give this as a trailer. Whatever you think happened,
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 1: it's ten times worse. Yeah, yep, I had I had
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: the studio.
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 3: I'll mention that in one of my air classes there
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 3: was a guy who, if you saw him, you'd never
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 3: expect that this guy would get emotional publicly during a lecture.
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 3: There was a guy who was in tears on the
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 3: class and I didn't even try. It's just that the
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 3: monstrosity and the stuff that happened go beyond the things
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 3: that you imagine as human tragedy or whatever, and it's
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 3: something that it's alien to most people. You've all heard
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 3: about the Holocaust, but you have no idea what they'll
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 3: greatly forward was or even worth the cultural revolution was,
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 3: although it costs less fewer lives anyway, Next Sunday.
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 2: Yep, I thank you Ryan for the ideas Andrew topic
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 2: idea for next week and an ounce of twenty essential
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 2: historical events involved in a once transition from civilized society
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 2: to theocracy.
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 3: An Iranian Revolution episode requires more work.
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 1: It cannot be next week. It will be one of
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: the souls.
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we can. Also we should do. If we do that,
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 2: we'll do carab Iranian twentieth century history all the way
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 2: through the revolution. But yes, part of the plan is
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 2: to do is to do that at some point.
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: Yep, thank you padd It requires a lot of work.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, Mary Elen, does just Shapiro have a shot at
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 2: the White House? I wish. I really don't think so.
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: He's Jewish. I don't think a Jewish a Jew can
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: win in the democratic primaries right now. He's pro Israel.
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: I don't think somebody exclusively pro Israel can win. He's
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: too centrist, So I just don't see who his constituency
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 2: is in the primary who votes that.
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 3: It gives us an excellent thought experiment. Joe Shapiro versus
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 3: Jay Devance. I'm sure there are many people in the
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 3: left who are going to vote for Jay Devance.
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 2: Between the two. I think that's right.
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 3: But related to our friend who previously said, think of
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 3: a leftists would vote for the Evans against Jose Piro.
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, and luckily there'll be quite a few Republicans who
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: might vote for jos Shapiro.
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's also yeah.
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, Gail says, Jeron, have you seen the hero western
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 2: film Open Rage Range with Robert Duval. I did see
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: the movie Open Range a long time ago, I think
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: when it first came out in the early two thousands,
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: and it's a good movie. You know, I don't remember
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 2: the details. I remember really liking it, without remembering any
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 2: of the details of why I really liked it. That's
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 2: the problem of my fading memory. So yes, I saw it,
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 2: I liked it. I love westerns. Western's one of my
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: favorite genres. They're not a lot of good modern westerns.
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 2: Most modern western suck because they adopt the the anti hero.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 2: Almost all western since spaghetti western suck and those of
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 2: you who think spaghett westerns are the pinnacle of westerns,
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, you know that's worse than thinking on
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 2: Aldo is better than messy.
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 3: So okay, please, someone give us the opportunity to debate
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 3: this with your own because my favorite westerns are, in order,
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 3: the three Spaghetti the three main spaghetti Westerns.
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 2: They are not great. They are the undermining of the
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 2: very nature of the Western. I've got a whole talk
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 2: on it. I did, god thirty years ago, I think
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 2: forty years ago. I did a whole talk on this
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 2: why spaghetti westerns basically undermine the values of the West,
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 2: of the Western, of the traditional Western, and anyway.
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: So yes, but I never understood why.
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 3: For example, in for a Few Dollars, more clear Distwood
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 3: is an anti hero to meets. Clearly, he's clearly a hero,
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 3: and he has the attributes of hero. The same in
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 3: for a fistful of Dollars, Remember how to save my.
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: Character in the Fist full of Dollars? Sorry, what's the
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: name of the character in the Fist Full of Dollars?
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 1: He has no name?
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, And that's all you have to know to
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 2: understand he is. He's is an empty shell. He's a nothing,
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 2: he's not a he's not an individuated human being. He's
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 2: a gunslinger out to seek revenge or seek something. Right.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: So one day, okay, we'll do this, we'll do this debate.
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: But the fact that he has no name is a
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 2: big part of of of what under undercuts the whole
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: notion of spaghetti westerns. But we didn't they make these
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 2: Italians made these funny spaghetti westerns with my name is nobody.
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 1: That's that's also not funny.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 3: I mean I remember watching it as a as a
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 3: kid many times because we had this block bastard type
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 3: video club and we had only a few western and
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 3: the ones I had, I would watch them time and again. Anyway,
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 3: with this requires a whole, a whole discussion, particularly for Selene.
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 3: I disagree. I think this would at least for me
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 3: growing up. It was the first ideal of a hero
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 3: that I could absorb growing up.
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: We'll have to we'll have to have that debate at
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 2: some point. So if somebody wants to sponsor debate between
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 2: me and Nikaus and spaghetti westerns versus Westerns, let's do it.
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: That'll be fun, all right. There's a bunch of topics
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 2: like this that Nikos and I disagree on. That would
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 2: be fun to debate. Andrew, why is Hassan Pika full
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 2: of hatred of the good?
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 3: You could ask this about all his people, particularly with
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 3: as Sam Piger.
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 1: It's weird.
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 3: He's a guy who has everything going on for him.
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 3: He looks spectacularly good, at least for a leftist. He's clever,
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 3: he's articulate, he's successful. It's I don't know. I cannot
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 3: psychologize so this I don't have the material to give
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 3: an answer to this question.
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 2: So as there were a different standard of good looking
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 2: for leftists and people in the way.
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, with leftists the expectations are very low.
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 2: Really why because the hippie kind of association. Yeah, I mean,
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 2: how I don't know better as a leftist, so I
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 2: you know, I I you know, it's hard for me
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 2: to say.
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you go to a leftist protest, which
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 3: by the way, was not the case in Greece. In Greece,
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 3: you'd have, like you know, in the first line, the
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 3: Communis filet would put the construction workers or the steward teams,
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 3: which was basically like the militia.
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 1: It would be impressive human.
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 3: Beings in terms of you know, they'd be strong, maybe
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 3: with some beer belly, but this is used for a
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 3: street fight.
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 1: So you wouldn't have this heapy, soy boy archetype, right.
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 2: And you know I never associated maybe because in Israel,
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 2: socialists were not hippies, so I never associated necessarily with
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 2: And I don't find you know, this goes back to
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 2: our our disagreement about the aesthetics of clothes. I don't
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: find you know, writists who wear three p suits and
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 2: and slick their hair back and and have this perfect look.
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 2: I find it offensive.
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 1: And uh and you know, so do you find Clark
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 1: Clark Gable offensive?
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 2: Clark Gable, for his time was was great. If I
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: saw somebody dressed and looked like Clark Gable today, I
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 2: would have no interest. And and this is my problem
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 2: with the with the general manager of the Miami Heat.
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 3: So it's too it's too late to spike my adrenaline
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 3: and what's and to spike my court is also I
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 3: won't comment on.
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 2: That although we are much we are now and pretty
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: much the same time zone. So so you know, I
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 2: don't have the advantage I used to have in terms
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 2: of being as much fresher. All right, guys, Thank you
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 2: you guys. The super chatter is oh won coming in
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 2: all right. Last one, Rufel says can art change the
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 2: psychostomology of a culture or does something deeper need to happen.
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 2: I mean that's a really good question and important question.
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 2: I think the answer is yes, but it's not enough.
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 2: That is it can it can start the change. So
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 2: if you think about if you think about the Renaissance,
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 2: something deeper was happening.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: I e.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 2: Aristotle brought into the culture. But you can't get an
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 2: enlightenment without the artistic achievements of the Renaissance. Art is
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 2: an essential piece of changing the psychostomology of a culture.
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think he can do it alone. There has
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 2: to be something, you know, in terms of ideas philosophically
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 2: also changing and the art in many respects, the art
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 2: is better than the ideas, right, The art of the
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 2: Renaissance is better than in the ideas that the people
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 2: had during the Renaissance. So it has to go hand
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 2: in hand. And in that sense, I think cultural change
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 2: for objectivism is only going to happen when we start
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 2: producing artists who can actually portray and due to the
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 2: Renaissance for Aristotle, for Einrand, what the Renaissance did for Aristotle.
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and just just think of the years twenty twelve
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 3: to twenty sixteen. Within these years two thirteen, we've had
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 3: the Dark Knight Rises, Interstellar, Whiplas, the most violent year.
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 3: If you focus on this, you could expect that what
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 3: would come late that would be Yeah, finally, you know,
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 3: Hero Wars productive was what came after was Trump and
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 3: peak woke.
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it, you know, And you can't take four
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 2: good movies out of I mean, there's a context, so
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 2: a vast majority of the stuff is junk. I mean,
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 2: the stunning thing about the Renaissance when you go to
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 2: place like Florence is how many good artists they are
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 2: painting at the same time. So even the second rate
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 2: guys are good, right, and the whole culture is infused
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 2: with it, Whereas here you have a few, you know,
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 2: exceptional Even even those directors could not keep it up right.
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 2: Even those directors could not sustain the quality that they
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 2: achieved during that period. I go back to the nineteen
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 2: eighties and James Cameron's movies in the nineteen eighties. I mean,
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 2: these are great movies with heroes, Terminator, Tominata too, Aliens
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 2: and Abyss. I mean these were really you know. And
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 2: then he makes Titanic and he his entire philosophy with
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 2: the Titanic.
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 1: Well, what's wrong with Tatanic?
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 2: Titanic is a horrible movie? Well maybe, but why oh Philosophically,
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 2: it's it's almost it's it's close to the most explicitly
• 2:25:17
  Speaker 2: Marxist movie.
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 2: Visually, there's a there's a there's this amazing scene visually
• 2:25:24
  Speaker 2: right in that Titanic where he does a a shot
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 2: through like the cross section of the Titanic, right, and
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 2: it's it's it makes a pyramid. It literally visually makes
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 2: a pyramid, and at the top are the rich financiers
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 2: lounging around, and then you get kind of the rich,
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 2: and then you get the middle class in their cabins,
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 2: and then you get the poor people in their cabins,
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 2: like the miserable poor, and then at the bottom, which
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 2: is incredibly powerful. Right, So it's it's it's well done. Right,
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 2: are the guy shoveling coal into the fire to make
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 2: this whole thing work? It's it's the best visualization a
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 2: Marxist pyramid of exploitation. I've you know, I've ever seen.
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 2: But there's so many things like that, like what is
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 2: the what is the like there's this spoilt rich goal
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 2: and she meets this worldly, uh poor kid, and he's
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 2: supposed to make her. So what does he teach her?
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 2: What's the thing that he teaches the goal to do
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 2: that is going to make her a better human being?
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 1: He teaches this discussions with Zizek. He has exactly the
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 1: same take as you.
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 2: He teaches us, how he teaches how to spit, Yeah, exactly.
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 2: I mean it's disgusting. The whole movie is disgusting. It's
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 2: a horrible take. But rich versus poor and the whole
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 2: articulation of it, and by you know, by the end,
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 2: you're kind of begging for him to die already. And
• 2:26:52
  Speaker 2: and you know, DiCaprio and the fake romanticism of them
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 2: at the edge of the boat with the sweeping music,
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 2: it's all all. You know, he's manipulating you at that point.
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 2: There's nothing between them. There's nothing am about the kid.
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 2: It's just not there's nothing convincing about it. But but yeah,
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 2: it's it's philosophically really really really bad versus his early
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 2: movies which are philosophically, you know, not politically the politics.
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 2: He doesn't because the politics says about AI taking over
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 2: the world. But the theme of Terimidated too is free will.
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 2: And it's pretty explicit in a way that I don't
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 2: know any other way on any other movie that that
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 2: is so explicit about. You know, I can change the future.
• 2:27:38
  Speaker 2: I my destiny is in my control in a way
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 2: that you don't get anywhere else.
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 1: Didn't come and also make avat Yes, that's the following.
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 1: That's even worse. Yeah, that's it. That's going from the
• 2:27:51
  Speaker 1: old left to the new environment that is left.
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 2: So it's even worstly exactly, and and that's his arc.
• 2:27:57
  Speaker 2: His arc is going more political and going more towards
• 2:28:01
  Speaker 2: the towards the modern left. Okay, Rafel says it's all
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 2: Refel's fault, all right. About psychopistemology, can we say a
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 2: more emotional mind tends to appreciate fragmented art, a concrete
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 2: bound mind naturalism, and a conceptual mind romanticism. God, that's
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 2: a tough one. I'm not sure exactly what emotional mind is.
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 2: That's a non mind, if you will, it tends to
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 2: appreciate fragmented art. Yeah, I don't know.
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 1: Empirically there's something to eat maybe.
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 2: But a concrete bound mind and naturalism, I mean, there's
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 2: definitely that Naturalism a piece to the concrete bound, and
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 2: romanticism appeals to a more abstract and conceptual mind. I
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 2: think that's true. I'm not sure about emotion versus fragmented
• 2:28:59
  Speaker 2: and I'm not sure what the difference is between emotional
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 2: and concrete bound h At the end of the day,
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 2: they're both in terms of minds, they're both. Yeah, I
• 2:29:10
  Speaker 2: mean i'd have to think about I'd have to think
• 2:29:12
  Speaker 2: about it. But I don't think of a mind as emotional.
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 2: So all right, thanks very fell because it's.
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 1: Late, it's late, Thanks everyone, Thank yous you guys.
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 2: Next week, thanks to all the super chattis. Thanks to
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 2: the stick of people and see you. I don't know
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 2: if next week is Saturday or Sunday. I guess we'll
• 2:29:33
  Speaker 2: get back to you. I think it's Sunday, but I'm
• 2:29:36
  Speaker 2: just not sure.
• 2:29:36
  Speaker 3: Bet that one extra day of prep is important. It's
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 3: a difficult topic.
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 2: Count we're doing Mao Mao's China. Bye everybody, good night.
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 2: All right. I know how to I know how to
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 2: turn this off. Here we go