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Chris Ullman on Finding Your Purpose in Life and Leadership · Liberty + Leadership

• 0:00
  Roger Ream: Hello and welcome.
• 0:01
  Roger Ream: I'm Roger Rehm, and this is the Liberty and Leadership Podcast a conversation with T-FASS alumni, supporters, faculty and friends who are making a real impact in public policy, business, philanthropy, law and journalism.
• 0:19
  Roger Ream: Today, my guest is Chris Alman, president of Alman Communications, senior Advisor at Narrative Communications and World Champion Whistler.
• 0:29
  Roger Ream: You heard that right.
• 0:31
  Roger Ream: Chris is a four-time international whistling champion.
• 0:34
  Roger Ream: He is also the author of two books Find your Whistle Simple Gifts, touch Hearts and Change Lives, and one that was just released, four billionaires and a parking attendant success strategies of the wealthy, powerful and just plain wise.
• 0:52
  Roger Ream: Chris was elected to the T-FASS Board of Trustees in July 2023, following over two decades as a key supporter of our work, including as a volunteer speaker and supporter.
• 1:05
  Roger Ream: He often speaks to students on professional development and networking.
• 1:10
  Roger Ream: He's served as a mentor to students since 2001 and joined the Board of Regents in 2017.
• 1:17
  Roger Ream: Chris, thank you for joining me today and congratulations on your new book.
• 1:22
  Roger Ream: I'm looking forward to our conversation.
• 1:24
  Chris Ullman: Well, roger, it's great to be here, and thanks for this opportunity.
• 1:29
  Roger Ream: Well, I appreciate you joining me and let me say right off the bat that I truly enjoyed reading the book, which is just coming out publicly for sale now.
• 1:40
  Roger Ream: But before we get into it, let me set the stage a little.
• 1:44
  Roger Ream: You've had a distinguished career in the public and private sector, focused mainly on roles and communications.
• 1:51
  Roger Ream: How did this focus on communications come about?
• 1:55
  Chris Ullman: Well, first it warms my heart that you read the book and liked it, so that for an author that is a really neat experience to put all this work into something and then have people react to it.
• 2:06
  Chris Ullman: So this is an important part of the journey and so I've had a really amazing and very blessed career.
• 2:15
  Chris Ullman: I came to Washington in 1987.
• 2:18
  Chris Ullman: And so for 36 years I've been in the communications world and Capitol Hill, the executive branch in a Republican and a Democratic administration, private sector, at a place that you're very familiar with Citizens for a Sound Economy, free Market Advocacy Group.
• 2:35
  Chris Ullman: Then I was at the Carlisle Group, which is a global investment firm, for 18 years running their global communications function and then, five years ago, started my own PR firm and it's me and when you call Omen Communications you get Omen.
• 2:53
  Chris Ullman: So I've had this really amazing career and I've just met these amazing people along the way, and I love Washington.
• 3:00
  Chris Ullman: I've met my wife here.
• 3:03
  Chris Ullman: We have three children.
• 3:04
  Chris Ullman: It's a great city and just really, really blessed.
• 3:09
  Roger Ream: Well, this career path you described in a nutshell there has given you the opportunity to work with some incredible people and some very wealthy people, but I guess right off the bat the title Four Billionaires and a Parking Attendant.
• 3:25
  Roger Ream: I want to disabuse people of the idea that this is some formula for get rich quick or something like that.
• 3:33
  Roger Ream: It's more importantly, I think it's how we can each, as a person, be a better person and fully utilize the talents and skills that we were born with.
• 3:43
  Chris Ullman: That's exactly it.
• 3:45
  Chris Ullman: Titles are important and this title is meant to show this juxtaposition between wealth, the Four Billionaires and, kind of the common folk.
• 3:59
  Chris Ullman: You know a parking attendant and that wisdom can come from anyone and that's captured in the title.
• 4:07
  Chris Ullman: There are 15 people featured in the book, 14 of whom are either billionaires or they were CEO of this or governor of that or chairman of this.
• 4:17
  Chris Ullman: So there are these like potentate type people.
• 4:20
  Chris Ullman: But this parking attendant, a young man named Sala, who is an Ethiopian immigrant, just really touched my heart and that lesson is about choosing to be happy and it had just a big impact on me as a person, and especially when I because I've known so many like hyper Uber successful people and you know they're not all happy, and that's why this notion of like, choosing to be happy, is so important and powerful.
• 4:49
  Chris Ullman: And, that said, what I've learned from the these big wigs has just changed my life.
• 4:56
  Chris Ullman: It took me from kind of the minor leagues to the major leagues in terms of the types of things I was exposed to but, perhaps more importantly, helping me understand how to be my best.
• 5:07
  Chris Ullman: Because, at its core, this book is about success.
• 5:11
  Chris Ullman: However you define it, it is not a prescription for being a billionaire.
• 5:16
  Chris Ullman: Now, if that's your objective, that's fine by me.
• 5:19
  Chris Ullman: I'm a capitalist.
• 5:19
  Chris Ullman: But ultimately, this is about how can you be your best, how can you be successful, however you define it.
• 5:28
  Roger Ream: Well, I'll not necessarily follow the order of the way you laid out the book there, but since you mentioned the parking lot attendant, I remember you in the book quote David Rubenstein, founder of one of the founders of Carlisle and one of the billionaires in your book, as commenting that most of the wealthy people he knew were not happy.
• 5:50
  Roger Ream: I think you mentioned that in the context of this advice from the parking lot attendant and I have always thought choosing to be happy is that it is a choice that a person makes.
• 6:01
  Roger Ream: I mean, it's sometimes a difficult choice to make because of things happening in a person's life.
• 6:07
  Roger Ream: Talk a little bit about that story of the parking attendant.
• 6:09
  Chris Ullman: You had to think about it, that to be blessed with immense wealth and to not be happy, it is a tragedy.
• 6:20
  Chris Ullman: And then you have the flip side of this young man, who's an immigrant from Ethiopia, learning English, learning the American ways, who, when I would drive into the parking garage at Carlisle every day for four years, who would greet me with this brilliant smile and a good morning, mr Chris, how are you?
• 6:40
  Chris Ullman: And we talk about our weekends, talk about our families, talk about our faith, and it's just amazed at how he approaches life, that it is a choice, and, because he and I have talked about this, that it's partly about his faith, that he's a devout Muslim, and Muhammad says you must love your neighbor, you must be a part of your community and you must have this bright outlook.
• 7:07
  Chris Ullman: So that's a big part of what motivates him and it is infectious and it really touched my heart and we became such buddies that when he became an American citizen, I took my daughters to his naturalization ceremony.
• 7:22
  Chris Ullman: And if folks listening right now have never been to a naturalization ceremony, they must go, because it is a magical experience to see a whole group of people of different religions and ethnicities, the color of their skin across the rainbow, all pledging allegiance to a new country not just any country, but America, and for an American to see that it is, it's amazing, and I remember giving Sala his first American flag after that ceremony.
• 7:54
  Chris Ullman: So he's had a big impact on me and he has earned his way into this book.
• 8:00
  Roger Ream: And you almost didn't make it to the ceremony.
• 8:01
  Chris Ullman: But that's another story we won't go into today, but we did make it, yes, yes.
• 8:07
  Roger Ream: Well, in that same section of the book, you also said something interesting is we don't have to go further with this, but you talked about the too many people, I think, are concerned with the wealth disparity instead of the happiness disparity.
• 8:19
  Roger Ream: I thought that was a good way of putting it.
• 8:21
  Chris Ullman: I expected you would pick that up.
• 8:22
  Chris Ullman: Yes, I wish there were less of a gap in the wealth, and let me reference one thing related to that.
• 8:30
  Chris Ullman: I think that being blessed with wealth, however hard you worked for it, is a duty, but it's also this immense opportunity, because what's interesting about wealth is that you don't worry about the normal things that virtually everyone else worries about food, clothing, shelter, daycare, elder care.
• 8:53
  Chris Ullman: You don't worry about any of those things.
• 8:56
  Chris Ullman: So in the absence of that, you would think that having all this money would actually you'd be able to spend more time figuring out how I harness it effectively and then do something with it to actually make the world around me better, which in itself should bring you a lot of joy.
• 9:13
  Chris Ullman: So that's the great irony, or conundrum.
• 9:16
  Roger Ream: Yeah Well, let's start with your first strategy in there.
• 9:19
  Roger Ream: It's about being purposeful and I think that's there's a lot in there.
• 9:25
  Roger Ream: You talk a lot about Arthur Levin there.
• 9:27
  Roger Ream: One of his strategies I'll call it is to think every day what your successor would do if you were in your job.
• 9:37
  Roger Ream: But I think being purposeful is just an important point you make.
• 9:42
  Roger Ream: So can you talk a little bit about what you write in that chapter?
• 9:45
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, that section.
• 9:46
  Chris Ullman: So the book is broken into these eight success strategies, the first one being be purposeful, because it really sets you on a path to have purpose, and I also refer to it as having an it like what's your thing and do you have it, and do you embrace it and are you in pursuit of it?
• 10:08
  Chris Ullman: Whatever your it is, at one point I wanted to become the best whistler in the world and it took years and years of work and arguably I achieved it for at least for a brief shining moment, until other great whistlers came up.
• 10:24
  Chris Ullman: My another, it was being focused on being the best communications person that I could be, whether it was at the Budget Committee or the White House or the Carlisle Group.
• 10:36
  Chris Ullman: So having purpose to guide us is just so central.
• 10:41
  Chris Ullman: And when you meet people, especially young people, and you'll say, well, what are you into, what do you want to do, and they're like well, I don't know.
• 10:48
  Chris Ullman: And I'm like, oh my God, how is that possible to think that, especially someone who has education, has a family that supports them, has the internet with exposure to an immense and unfathomable amount of information that can excite and entice you to not know what your purpose is?
• 11:12
  Chris Ullman: And so it's not this black or white thing that you find purpose one day, and it's a journey in itself, and purpose can evolve over time, but having purpose is so important, and so that lesson you referenced so think like your successor every day.
• 11:29
  Chris Ullman: And it's a super powerful lesson.
• 11:32
  Chris Ullman: It's this notion of I go to work every day and I get used to doing things and today is like yesterday and tomorrow will be like today, and these patterns get established.
• 11:42
  Chris Ullman: And are we handcuffed by this constancy or are our brains open and welcoming, if not actually soliciting, new ways of thinking?
• 11:55
  Chris Ullman: Because if you lose your job or you quit or you die and someone else takes your job the next day, they're going to come in and they're going to survey everything you did and they're going to say brilliant, good, mediocre and crazy.
• 12:08
  Chris Ullman: Well, why should I wait for someone else to come in to dispense with the mediocre and crazy?
• 12:14
  Chris Ullman: I should be doing that, but it's hard because and that's really a key part of this book, especially in terms of the how how do I embrace these lessons is by being humble and being open-minded, so that when I'm exposed to these 50 lessons from these immensely successful people, I can actually envision me embracing them, doing them, and none of this.
• 12:42
  Chris Ullman: This is really important.
• 12:43
  Chris Ullman: None of this is rocket science.
• 12:45
  Chris Ullman: This is actionable stuff.
• 12:48
  Chris Ullman: If I had said if you can run the Boston Marathon in a 330 time, then you'll be successful, most people would just kind of slump over and say I'm not even going to try.
• 12:58
  Chris Ullman: But it's not even slightly that.
• 13:00
  Chris Ullman: This is basic stuff.
• 13:01
  Chris Ullman: About being humble and open-minded and being purposeful so that I will decide what is bad because I'm getting good feedback, discard it and then be able to up my game Like.
• 13:17
  Chris Ullman: That's not rocket science.
• 13:18
  Chris Ullman: It's about being humble and open-minded, which are basic things.
• 13:23
  Roger Ream: In that section on being purposeful, you tell the story of your work with Mitch Daniels when he was the director of the Office of Management and Budget.
• 13:31
  Roger Ream: Mitch is a T-Fast trustee emeritus and I know you and I were both with him earlier this year in Florida, but the lesson you bring from him as part of the big person is to define your brand.
• 13:47
  Roger Ream: Could you talk some about that?
• 13:49
  Roger Ream: I think that's something that people would be interested in is how you define your brand.
• 13:57
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, so my definition of a brand and this is not the visual brand like the Coca-Cola logo.
• 14:02
  Chris Ullman: That's not what we're talking about.
• 14:03
  Chris Ullman: What we're talking about here is this emotional reaction and set of facts that you develop in yourself, and so other people are reacting to you and understanding things about you and Mitch, who is an incredible leader.
• 14:23
  Chris Ullman: So I first met him at the White House, but have followed his career when he was governor of Indiana for two terms and then president of Purdue for 12 years or something like that.
• 14:35
  Chris Ullman: So he has very thoughtfully paid very close attention to his brand.
• 14:39
  Chris Ullman: Now some people might say, oh well, that's just so engineered, it's not authentic.
• 14:43
  Chris Ullman: And I'd say it's actually incredibly authentic because his brand really was him.
• 14:47
  Chris Ullman: But as a professional communicator, what I've long said is that if you don't define your brand, someone else will.
• 14:54
  Chris Ullman: And when you're in a political world, you won't like the way they define you.
• 15:00
  Chris Ullman: So Mitch really worked on his brand.
• 15:02
  Chris Ullman: So what is Mitch's brand?
• 15:03
  Chris Ullman: So Mitch is whip, smart, thrifty, super creative, indefatigable.
• 15:11
  Chris Ullman: The guy just works like a dog, fantastic writer and became a man of the people when he was running for governor.
• 15:20
  Chris Ullman: And I realized this years later, like of just how well he had defined his brand by reading a feature article about him in Business Week Magazine.
• 15:31
  Chris Ullman: So I hadn't talked to him in a few years and so I'm just reading this article and it's like check, check, check.
• 15:37
  Chris Ullman: Like every one of his so-called brand attributes of what makes Mitch.
• 15:41
  Chris Ullman: Mitch was in there.
• 15:42
  Chris Ullman: So it was clearly defined and he was consistent with it, because if you're not consistent, then it's not going to be observable by people on the outside just over time.
• 15:55
  Chris Ullman: And so when you're running for office, or even much more prosaic.
• 16:01
  Chris Ullman: If you're, as I like to say, if you're just a normal human, your brand matters, because you maybe want to have a date, you want to get a loan from a bank, you want to get a job, and your brand is going to be a good brand or a bad brand.
• 16:16
  Chris Ullman: Are you a reliable person or not, Are you inquisitive or not, are you a team player or not, and these are all kind of attributes that can be part of your personal brand.
• 16:28
  Chris Ullman: So that kind of the key takeaway here is the importance of both defining what your brand is and then living it like, being authentic, and then sharing that over time with people.
• 16:42
  Roger Ream: Yeah, I think the Mitch Daniels example is excellent because he didn't create a brand that was inconsistent with who he was, as you were saying, and that's reinforced by the fact that he got on a Harley-Davidson when he campaigned for governor.
• 16:59
  Roger Ream: He stayed in people's homes, not in expensive hotels, and that's something he could do because it fit with who he was as a person.
• 17:09
  Roger Ream: He wasn't doing something artificial.
• 17:10
  Roger Ream: I don't see other candidates being able to do something like that.
• 17:14
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, remember, they started calling him my man Mitch.
• 17:17
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, yeah, because he's like a mensch.
• 17:19
  Roger Ream: A man of the people.
• 17:21
  Chris Ullman: He's just kind of like a man of the people.
• 17:22
  Chris Ullman: And it really helped him, and that's who he was.
• 17:24
  Chris Ullman: He didn't fake it.
• 17:25
  Roger Ream: No, well, the second of your eight strategies is to innovate and accomplish, and there you tell a number of great stories to illustrate that.
• 17:37
  Roger Ream: But you tell the story of Adina Friedman, who was a colleague of yours at Carlyle and then left, for was a Goldman Sachs.
• 17:45
  Chris Ullman: No NASDAQ, NASDAQ yeah.
• 17:47
  Roger Ream: Yeah, and very successful at NASDAQ, became the CEO and then, I think, chairman of NASDAQ.
• 17:50
  Roger Ream: You cite her as an example.
• 17:53
  Roger Ream: Who's someone who really had a strategic plan for her career.
• 17:55
  Roger Ream: She knew what her it was.
• 17:58
  Roger Ream: Yeah.
• 17:58
  Roger Ream: I think and could you talk a little bit about the concept of being purposeful and innovating to accomplish yeah?
• 18:08
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, so in all of the mentoring I've done through TFAS, which I have immensely loved, and, a little sidebar, this book effectively came about because of TFAS.
• 18:18
  Chris Ullman: So I found myself over the past quarter century just meeting with dozens, if not hundreds, of TFAS students, helping them think through their careers, and then saying, oh, let me tell you the story about Adina or Arthur Levin or David Rubinstein, and that kind of would help them figure out life.
• 18:36
  Chris Ullman: And so I accumulated a whole bunch of these lessons you know 15 or so and I said I should write a book.
• 18:41
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:43
  Chris Ullman: Good, but I didn't have enough.
• 18:44
  Chris Ullman: So I sat down and I would encourage everyone to do this sit down and think of all the people who've affected your career and your life and then say what did I learn from them and, if for no other reason to give them credit, like to call them up and say you really touched my heart, my brain, my career, my life, and I'm grateful for that.
• 19:05
  Chris Ullman: So what I realized was this and as I really came to life working for Adina, so Adina really melds together both the tactical and the strategic when thinking about her career.
• 19:20
  Chris Ullman: You know, there's this old notion I think it was from Wayne Gretzky, the great hockey player, who said I don't skate to where the puck is, I skate to where the puck is going.
• 19:30
  Chris Ullman: And that is the strategic approach to your career is to say, all right, I'm 25 years old, I want to be a CEO someday.
• 19:38
  Chris Ullman: It's not going to be next year, probably won't even be in 10 years, but it might be in 20 years.
• 19:43
  Chris Ullman: So what do I have to do between now and then?
• 19:46
  Chris Ullman: And then strategically position myself for success, like to eventually become a CEO.
• 19:54
  Chris Ullman: That is very strategic and you have to think about who are the people.
• 19:59
  Chris Ullman: I will need to know what are the types of jobs I will need to have along that journey.
• 20:04
  Chris Ullman: So that's very, that's pretty strategic stuff On the tactical side, and I tend to be very tactical and not strategic enough, which is why this lesson really impacted me.
• 20:15
  Chris Ullman: So, like I've approached things from a very tactical, do I like that job?
• 20:20
  Chris Ullman: Do I like the people?
• 20:21
  Chris Ullman: Do they pay me well?
• 20:22
  Chris Ullman: Does my opinion count?
• 20:23
  Chris Ullman: Is there room for growth?
• 20:24
  Chris Ullman: Those are all important, but it's not strategic.
• 20:29
  Chris Ullman: And because of Adina, I saw what she did with her career is that they got to a point where she didn't.
• 20:34
  Chris Ullman: She realized she was not going to become the CEO of Carlisle, so she left.
• 20:38
  Chris Ullman: She went back to NASDAQ, where she had been before, became president and two years later she's CEO.
• 20:44
  Chris Ullman: Two years later she's chair and CEO and I said, wow, that's strategic.
• 20:50
  Chris Ullman: So around kind of eight years ago, I said, hmm, I think my future at Carlisle is kind of winding down.
• 20:59
  Chris Ullman: I had been there for 15 years and I had pretty much done all I could do.
• 21:04
  Chris Ullman: So I said, well, what am I going to do next?
• 21:06
  Chris Ullman: And I said, well, I want to start my own PR firm, even though I'll be 55 years old at that point and I said, well, what are the things that I have to do between now and then to make that happen?
• 21:18
  Chris Ullman: So it was a much more strategic look at where I was and where I wanted to be and then taking these kind of micro steps to get there, and it's worked.
• 21:27
  Chris Ullman: So, you know, past five years I've been on my own and very pleased with how it's going, and I attribute a lot of that to Dean is very strategic thinking and seeing it in action.
• 21:38
  Chris Ullman: I mean, once they named someone who was likely going to be a successor to the current founders, I was like gosh, she's not going to be around much longer and she left and I'm really impressed by that.
• 21:51
  Chris Ullman: She didn't say whoa is me.
• 21:53
  Chris Ullman: She took action and like further, further her career.
• 21:57
  Roger Ream: Yeah, yeah, I don't think the words time management appear in the book, which is probably a good thing, but they actually don't.
• 22:05
  Chris Ullman: That's a good point.
• 22:07
  Roger Ream: But it's clear that what a lot of these people have in common is a focus on what's important.
• 22:14
  Roger Ream: You quote, I think it's David Rubenstein saying that he's sprinting to the finish line.
• 22:21
  Roger Ream: So, and you know, you tell the fact that he doesn't watch much TV at all, rarely takes vacations, rarely sleeps, I think, doesn't futz around, I think you put it, these people are, I won't say they have a single minded focus, because many of them are involved in a number of different things besides just their career, but but they don't waste time.
• 22:46
  Roger Ream: And can you explain, kind of, the importance of focus?
• 22:51
  Roger Ream: And patience is another thing, I think, which was about impatience.
• 22:57
  Roger Ream: Oh yes, the power of impatience, yeah, yeah.
• 22:59
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, actually the quick anecdote there with impatience, where Arthur Levitt, who was then the chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission, and I was his spokesman we're standing in his office and he's just rattling off things.
• 23:11
  Chris Ullman: He all right, we need to do this, we need to do that and do this, do this, do this, do this.
• 23:15
  Chris Ullman: And I'm like, all right, this sounds good, but what about that?
• 23:17
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, let's do that.
• 23:18
  Chris Ullman: And then when he got to the last item, he said well, how's it going?
• 23:21
  Chris Ullman: And I said well, what do you mean?
• 23:23
  Chris Ullman: And he said, well, with task number one.
• 23:26
  Chris Ullman: And I said how can I do test number one?
• 23:28
  Chris Ullman: I'm sitting here talking to you and he's like you better get going.
• 23:30
  Chris Ullman: You know that that is like harnessing impatience to go get stuff done.
• 23:36
  Chris Ullman: You know people have said to me how did you have fine time to write a book?
• 23:40
  Chris Ullman: You know you have a busy career, you have three kids, you're doing all sorts of things.
• 23:44
  Chris Ullman: And I said I don't watch a lot of TV.
• 23:47
  Chris Ullman: I sleep a reasonable amount, not too much.
• 23:50
  Chris Ullman: I avoid social media.
• 23:53
  Chris Ullman: And you know that it is such a time suck of all it.
• 23:57
  Chris Ullman: And I see my kids doing it.
• 23:59
  Chris Ullman: I'm like stop, stop, life is short and you know, I'm 60 years old now and it's becoming even like more noticeable that time is short and life is a gift and we must embrace every moment.
• 24:10
  Chris Ullman: So, and a lot of that came from Rubenstein, because he is a man on a mission, he is literally, and I I would challenge anyone in the world to find a busier human than David Rubenstein, like his capacity to do stuff, like he's chairman of five major organizations, like these are not dinky things University of Chicago, the Kennedy Center, the Carlisle Group, the Council on Foreign Relations, the National Gallery of Art those are actually six and the Economic Club of Washington.
• 24:40
  Chris Ullman: And he's active.
• 24:41
  Chris Ullman: This is not some you know just-, Not just title.
• 24:44
  Roger Ream: Yeah, it's not just the title.
• 24:45
  Chris Ullman: So, and he doesn't go on Twitter and do stupid things with that and I mean not that it can't be-.
• 24:52
  Chris Ullman: He also hosts several TV shows.
• 24:54
  Chris Ullman: He wrote four books in four years.
• 24:55
  Chris Ullman: He's got three TV shows that he hosts.
• 24:58
  Chris Ullman: It's stunning.
• 25:00
  Chris Ullman: So, and you mentioned earlier his philosophy of sprinting to the finish, and it is really fascinating philosophy, which is not to sprint to your death, but to sprint in terms of getting as much of your dreams accomplished while you have time.
• 25:17
  Chris Ullman: And it's amazing, and I have tons of dreams Like.
• 25:23
  Chris Ullman: My next dream is to write a screenplay about Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, to make a major motion picture, which is the craziest thing I've ever thought of, but why not?
• 25:34
  Roger Ream: Who's stopping me Now?
• 25:35
  Roger Ream: Maybe I'll succeed.
• 25:35
  Chris Ullman: Maybe I won't, but, and so and this is really the key is that you know, I grew up in this kind of regular middle class Long Island, you know, and people wanted you to succeed, but it was not a supercharged type environment.
• 25:48
  Chris Ullman: You know, I get to Washington and I am around these just super big wigs John Kasich and Arthur Levin and Mitch Daniels and all these billionaires and Glenn Yonkin and you're like wow, wow, how do I learn from that?
• 26:00
  Chris Ullman: And it just supercharged my life.
• 26:03
  Chris Ullman: It doesn't mean I'm better than anyone or anything like that.
• 26:06
  Chris Ullman: It just means that I am trying to be my best, and this is the lesson I teach my children.
• 26:12
  Chris Ullman: I said if getting a B is your best and you can say that with a straight face, then I accept that.
• 26:18
  Chris Ullman: But if you get a B and you're like, well, I shouldn't have gone on TikTok so often, I'm like, all right, we need to change something.
• 26:24
  Chris Ullman: So that is at the core.
• 26:27
  Chris Ullman: What we're trying to accomplish with this book is to say to someone you know what, what is my idea of success?
• 26:37
  Chris Ullman: And then what are the mindset that I need to get there, which is having drive, having humility, having discipline, which are really tools, and then being exposed to ideas and lessons and practices that are very accessible.
• 26:58
  Chris Ullman: This is not rocket science I'm dealing with here, and that is really the key, and it will just supercharge your life.
• 27:06
  Roger Ream: Yeah, well, I think you've accomplished it with this book, and now that Challenge, of course, is getting into the hands of people of all ages.
• 27:14
  Roger Ream: Really, I, you know I'm obviously toward the tail end of my career, in my life, but I found things that are actionable, things in there that I want to implement in my day-to-day life, in my office, and I also think it's a book that I want to buy, for you know everyone on our team at T-FAS to read young people, young and old alike.
• 27:40
  Roger Ream: I think it's particularly good for young people to read it.
• 27:43
  Roger Ream: Some of the lessons won't resonate as much now, but they'll be living it as they go through their careers.
• 27:49
  Chris Ullman: So yeah, well, that's, it warms my heart to hear that.
• 27:51
  Chris Ullman: And because I'm at this point I turned 60 this year and I say, all right, like hopefully I have 20, 25 good years left, right, and so I actually printed up a whole bunch of these and anytime I mentor a T-FAS student, I'm just gonna give them a copy of it with soft covers.
• 28:07
  Chris Ullman: And because that is, you know, a key way for me to give back and say and I look people in the eye and I say, look at me right now, right here, I say, if you read this book, it'll change your life, like not marginally, it will radically change your life.
• 28:25
  Chris Ullman: And don't you want that?
• 28:27
  Roger Ream: Well, and the examples you give, because you tell stories and real life experiences.
• 28:31
  Roger Ream: They have a stickiness that I think will stick with people, and I should mention you also in the conclusion.
• 28:37
  Roger Ream: You have things not to do.
• 28:39
  Roger Ream: You have your list of top 10 things you shouldn't do and some additional advice that you thought at the end, which is also is very good advice.
• 28:51
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, because you could easily read this book and say, oh, it's just to suck up to all these rich people that he's worked for and they are human, just like everyone else.
• 29:01
  Chris Ullman: The working title for this book was rich people have feelings too, which does get a chuckle out of most people.
• 29:08
  Chris Ullman: But I learned a lot of things you shouldn't do.
• 29:10
  Chris Ullman: Now I don't attribute them to any individual.
• 29:12
  Chris Ullman: I do have a.
• 29:13
  Chris Ullman: These are my friends and I do have an active consulting business that I need to stay active, so, but they are very powerful and like.
• 29:22
  Chris Ullman: One is don't let emotion rule, don't bow down to the committee.
• 29:27
  Chris Ullman: I mean I've seen that so many times where you, in an effort to get consensus, you just water down the idea or the direction or things like that.
• 29:38
  Chris Ullman: Another is just don't be mean.
• 29:42
  Chris Ullman: I mean I've had, I didn't know, bosses who were just mean people and then and like don't be arbitrary, which I detest probably more than anything, and I learned, you know, we all are sinners and imperfect people, and me right up there.
• 29:57
  Chris Ullman: So these have affected me as well.
• 30:00
  Chris Ullman: If I ever felt I was being arbitrary, because arbitrary is where someone says, why are we doing that?
• 30:05
  Chris Ullman: Well, because Like that's arbitrary and like, versus having facts and logic that kind of almost dictate that this is a logical way to proceed.
• 30:15
  Chris Ullman: So yeah, so there's good and bad.
• 30:20
  Chris Ullman: Most of them are good.
• 30:21
  Roger Ream: Yeah, Well, and among your strategies are being humble, being authentic things that I think clearly we all value, but this gives you the actionable side of it yeah, yeah, so yeah.
• 30:45
  Roger Ream: Yeah, how do you promote a book like this besides coming on this podcast?
• 30:51
  Roger Ream: This?
• 30:52
  Chris Ullman: book because I'm on this podcast, I will sell 100,000 books.
• 30:55
  Chris Ullman: I'm very, very excited.
• 30:56
  Chris Ullman: Well, I do marketing for a living, so it is word of mouth.
• 31:02
  Chris Ullman: So I've told all my friends multiple times Everyone I whistle happy birthday for, and I do it 650 times a year.
• 31:09
  Chris Ullman: I sent a personalized note to so who knows how many of them will buy it, but hopefully some.
• 31:14
  Chris Ullman: Then there is what's called paid no, no excuse me earned media, where I get articles written in newspapers or I get on.
• 31:23
  Chris Ullman: NPR or something like that.
• 31:24
  Chris Ullman: Then there's podcasts.
• 31:26
  Chris Ullman: The podcasts are a really powerful tool for getting the word out.
• 31:30
  Chris Ullman: And then events, so we'll have book parties.
• 31:34
  Chris Ullman: And then another big area is just speaking gigs, I call them, where a company hires you to come and give a talk to their associate class of lawyers.
• 31:45
  Chris Ullman: Or, if I go to Ernst Young, they have their class of new accountants and they bring in speakers to inspire them, as we did this summer, when you spoke at our kickoff.
• 31:57
  Roger Ream: Yeah, yeah, which?
• 31:57
  Chris Ullman: was a great, great honor, and so it's really fascinating.
• 32:04
  Chris Ullman: So you write a book and you're in your own head for a long time and then you have to then go market it and you have to try to pluck out things that will be relevant for a particular audience.
• 32:13
  Chris Ullman: So that's a whole nother set of challenges which I'm embarking on now, because the book is out in October, so we're gearing up for that.
• 32:24
  Roger Ream: Did you?
• 32:24
  Roger Ream: I'm interested in how you wrote this.
• 32:26
  Roger Ream: Did you set aside a few hours every day over a long period of time?
• 32:31
  Roger Ream: Did you put us take a month and focus 100% on it, or was it a multi-year?
• 32:37
  Roger Ream: I mean obviously you gathered these stories well, you gathered these stories throughout your career.
• 32:43
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, yeah so.
• 32:46
  Roger Ream: But how'd you actually get them into the form of a book?
• 32:48
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, so it really it took around two years of like heavy thinking, writing and then kind of sprinkle with talking.
• 32:57
  Chris Ullman: And what I mean by talking is that when I'm at any kind of event people say, oh, what's going on.
• 33:03
  Chris Ullman: I say, oh, I'm writing a book.
• 33:03
  Chris Ullman: Oh, what are you writing a book about?
• 33:05
  Chris Ullman: And I would tell people and you just run some of the lessons by them.
• 33:09
  Chris Ullman: And especially in the early stages I was really curious about the structure, like how do you structure a book like this?
• 33:16
  Chris Ullman: And that in itself is a big challenge and my publisher was very helpful in coming up with the structure.
• 33:25
  Chris Ullman: And then it's a early in the morning, late at night.
• 33:29
  Chris Ullman: Anytime I'm on a plane or taking the Ocella up to New York, I would purposely take the 5 am Ocella so I could write for three hours and just put on my headphones, listen to great classical music and write, write, write, write, write.
• 33:42
  Chris Ullman: And then things really start to take shape.
• 33:47
  Chris Ullman: At first you're just coming up with what is the actual thing I learned, so you write that down.
• 33:54
  Chris Ullman: But then you actually have to tell a story, because each lesson is an anecdote, so it's not just you should be humble.
• 34:03
  Chris Ullman: Well, let me tell you a story about a billionaire who served me on his jet, who I would have expected he would want me to serve him, and I'm like, oh wow, I didn't expect that.
• 34:16
  Chris Ullman: So humility can come from different ways.
• 34:19
  Chris Ullman: So.
• 34:21
  Chris Ullman: And then you put them in groups and then you give it to a lot of people and they read it and give you feedback.
• 34:28
  Chris Ullman: And what's really challenging is when people have diametrically opposed reactions to certain things, and then you have to see what patterns emerge from your readers and then you just have to make judgments about what you keep and what you change and all that.
• 34:44
  Chris Ullman: So it is an amazing journey to go through.
• 34:46
  Roger Ream: Yeah, yeah, well, the outcome's, I think, a big success.
• 34:50
  Roger Ream: Well, thank you.
• 34:51
  Roger Ream: Your first book was Find your Whistle and it was about finding a simple gift to touch people's hearts and change their lives.
• 34:58
  Roger Ream: You also did a TED Talk that was on the theme of race and race relations and again, that TED Talk I think was very popular and got a lot of attention and I think probably very much influenced in a positive way that people listen to it.
• 35:14
  Roger Ream: But could you touch on the lessons from that TED Talk?
• 35:19
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, so there, and I think anyone who's been paying attention has seen that there have been a number of tragic killings of black people, for the most part.
• 35:30
  Chris Ullman: Now there are a lot of white people who are killed as well, but there's been a ton of attention, like Trayvon Martin and George Floyd and many others, and each one is unique.
• 35:43
  Chris Ullman: But some patterns emerge and just as a citizen who's reading the newspaper and hearing chatter about it at work or online or whatever, and I say to myself, well, what can I do about it?
• 35:57
  Chris Ullman: Literally, what can I do about it?
• 35:59
  Chris Ullman: And I was just growing frustrated that I feel like there was nothing I could do.
• 36:03
  Chris Ullman: So I actually sat down and thought through what are the steps or the mindset you should have for healing division among races.
• 36:21
  Chris Ullman: And then I was reminded of this incredible anecdote from 20 plus years ago where I was mentoring a young black boy in the tough part of DC, a place called Anacostia, and he and I were out to dinner one night at a McDonald's and it was just the young black boy and the middle-aged white guy and a black woman just walks up to us and says, hey, what's going on with you and the boy.
• 36:45
  Chris Ullman: Clearly, what a tone of concern and at that moment I realized I could either say, take a hike, lady, you got a problem with me being white, or I could stand up, extend my hand and say hi, I'm Chris Ollman, this is Monte, and we're in this Christian mentoring program and we're just out getting a bite to eat.
• 37:04
  Chris Ullman: So I did the latter, praise God, and just the scales fall from her eyes and she goes from skepticism to we need more people like you.
• 37:13
  Chris Ullman: And so then I tried to deconstruct that event.
• 37:18
  Chris Ullman: So among the attributes are benefited, the doubt, de-escalation.
• 37:25
  Chris Ullman: Those are just really fundamental and ultimately it's just love.
• 37:29
  Chris Ullman: Do you actually love your fellow human Just because they're human, a child of God?
• 37:34
  Chris Ullman: That in itself, at least in a laboratory, can heal some of the division, and I saw it work in the McDonald's.
• 37:44
  Chris Ullman: So I proposed this TED talk because I was tired of being on the sidelines and at first they said, well, you're just some Wall Street older white guy.
• 37:53
  Chris Ullman: What can people learn from you?
• 37:55
  Chris Ullman: And I said, well, I got this great story and, I think, an important message.
• 37:58
  Chris Ullman: And I told them and they said, wow, that's a great story, an important message.
• 38:01
  Chris Ullman: You can do your TED talk.
• 38:02
  Chris Ullman: And it was an amazing experience, and that's what we need more of.
• 38:09
  Chris Ullman: It'll less gotcha and less I'm right, you're wrong.
• 38:14
  Chris Ullman: Which is a core problem with public discourse today.
• 38:18
  Chris Ullman: It's this notion of literally I'm 100% right and you're 100% wrong, and that is some weird planet that I'm unfamiliar with.
• 38:27
  Roger Ream: Well, through your mentoring, which you do a lot of a lot of it with T-FAS and our students, what kind of general conclusions have you reached about the rising generation and what are your impressions of the students at T-FAS that you encounter?
• 38:43
  Chris Ullman: Yeah Well, I love being affiliated with the program.
• 38:46
  Chris Ullman: I think just philosophically, in terms of providing important information to the students about government and economics and international affairs, is it's a great mission, the in coupling that with this intense professional development, teaching them how to network and kind of the practical side of having a job, which is why they have internships, so that the whole format, the philosophy and approach, I think is spot on for what's necessary.
• 39:20
  Chris Ullman: The caliber of the students very, very impressive and at the same time I have found over the years is that it's kind of a.
• 39:31
  Chris Ullman: There's always I'd say 10% to 15% of every group I deal with are the stars.
• 39:39
  Chris Ullman: They are the ones who are like hungry sponges, that after a talk they come right up to you and say can I meet with you, can I ask you questions, can I learn about your career?
• 39:49
  Chris Ullman: And I'm always a little disappointed that more people don't do that.
• 39:53
  Chris Ullman: Now I would just run out of time if they did, I'd have to figure out a new model.
• 39:57
  Chris Ullman: So even among a more select group of students, you still have the top performers, those who are really curious.
• 40:08
  Chris Ullman: I've helped a number of them get jobs over the years and they are in that small group that are like the super self-starters, and those are the ones I like to work with the most, because they go to a mentoring session with hunger and an open mind and really good questions and effectively they're doing this benchmarking where they say this is a job I'm interested in, and I go find people who do that job and then try to figure out does that make sense for me?
• 40:38
  Chris Ullman: And that's a really logical way to approach it.
• 40:42
  Chris Ullman: So I love doing it.
• 40:43
  Chris Ullman: It's a great way to give back to the next generation and I am just so grateful for your leadership and what you've done for just about 30 years yeah, 32.
• 40:56
  Chris Ullman: Incredible, that's right 32.
• 40:59
  Roger Ream: Well, this summer in our kickoff program at George Mason, you told the students, you gave them some good advice, but some of it was very much on the topic of don't be shy in terms of networking.
• 41:15
  Roger Ream: You basically were in a sense saying, after I finished this lecture, they come up and talk to me, give me your card to get together.
• 41:21
  Roger Ream: And you told a great story about, on your way, going to a was it a little cross game or something and running into someone along the way in his car.
• 41:32
  Chris Ullman: Yeah, yeah, it was an amazing, amazing story and, yeah, it's all about just being open minded, being curious, exactly, and the like, and I ended up having you want me to tell the story.
• 41:45
  Roger Ream: You can tell the story.
• 41:46
  Roger Ream: It's a great story.
• 41:47
  Roger Ream: I think it's a good story to tell in the context of what the message you were conveying to our students.
• 41:52
  Chris Ullman: What I told this story?
• 41:54
  Chris Ullman: Because I often view life like a pinball game that once you press that button and the flipper hits the ball, you don't know where the ball's going to go.
• 42:04
  Chris Ullman: And that is what life is like.
• 42:08
  Chris Ullman: I often equate it to skiing.
• 42:12
  Chris Ullman: It is a controlled fall.
• 42:13
  Chris Ullman: Well, you hope you're in control, so you start at the top and then, if you just stay at the top, the view may be great but you're getting nothing done.
• 42:22
  Chris Ullman: But once you point those skis downhill, you are falling and you're experiencing and you will literally fall, but you may take air and rejoice as well.
• 42:36
  Chris Ullman: So it's that spirit of openness and curiosity and not knowing what's going to happen if I do a certain thing.
• 42:44
  Chris Ullman: So the real quick story is I was going to my daughter's softball game and this guy parked the car at the field and this guy pulls up and he's really cool, tesla.
• 42:55
  Chris Ullman: And he says hey, I saw your bumper sticker and it says High Point University on it and that's where my son goes to school.
• 43:01
  Chris Ullman: And I said, oh, yeah, my son goes to school there.
• 43:03
  Chris Ullman: And he said my son just graduated from there.
• 43:04
  Chris Ullman: And I said, wow, that's great Small world.
• 43:07
  Chris Ullman: And then he said and then I saw your other bumper sticker that says got springbok and he said I said yeah, I said a springbok is a miniature African antelope.
• 43:18
  Chris Ullman: And I said do you know what a springbok is?
• 43:20
  Chris Ullman: He said I'm a springbok.
• 43:21
  Chris Ullman: And he had a South African accent.
• 43:26
  Chris Ullman: And it turns out the springbok, this little antelope, is the national animal of South Africa and it's also the symbol for the sports teams and he was on the national swimming team, so he was a springbok and he just said I said well, hey, we're late for the game.
• 43:45
  Chris Ullman: You want to come with us?
• 43:46
  Chris Ullman: He's like oh, no, no, he said I just saw you on the highway and followed you here.
• 43:50
  Roger Ream: Oh my gosh that's freaky.
• 43:52
  Chris Ullman: So then I said to him what do you do for a living?
• 43:55
  Chris Ullman: And he said I'm a lung transplant specialist at Fairfax and Nova Hospital.
• 44:01
  Chris Ullman: I'm like that is even freaky.
• 44:03
  Chris Ullman: Here I said we have to have lunch and so we exchanged cards and we did, we had lunch and he's a nicest guy.
• 44:11
  Chris Ullman: And you know my mother has lung issues, so if she needs a lung transplant I know what I'm going to call.
• 44:16
  Chris Ullman: So I don't know what's going to happen with that friendship, but it was fun and it's a great story.
• 44:22
  Chris Ullman: But it's more of a mindset Are you open or not?
• 44:27
  Chris Ullman: And are you going to act?
• 44:29
  Chris Ullman: Are you on the front?
• 44:30
  Chris Ullman: You know the British have this great expression about are you on the front foot or on the back foot.
• 44:34
  Chris Ullman: You know, in the front foot and there's actually a lesson in the book about being on the front foot is, your knees are bent, your eyes are twitchy, your hands are ready, you are ready for the rebound.
• 44:42
  Chris Ullman: You don't know if it's coming your way, but if it does, you're going to grab it.
• 44:46
  Chris Ullman: And that is the way people should be.
• 44:48
  Chris Ullman: It's like to be on the front foot and like engaged in life rather than letting things just kind of passively go by them.
• 44:57
  Roger Ream: Let go of that handle that sends that pinball.
• 45:00
  Roger Ream: That's right.
• 45:01
  Roger Ream: Well, this has been a real pleasure.
• 45:06
  Roger Ream: Thank you for sharing the lessons in your book, as well as a few others.
• 45:10
  Roger Ream: Let me, if you don't mind, I'll hold up the walk for those watching on YouTube.
• 45:14
  Roger Ream: It's four billionaires and a parking attendant, and the subtitle is success strategies of the wealthy, powerful and just plain wise.
• 45:23
  Roger Ream: So I highly recommend this book.
• 45:26
  Roger Ream: I hope everyone will buy one for themselves as well as for their friends, because it's got great advice and it's presented in a with a great writing style and in a storytelling manner.
• 45:39
  Roger Ream: So, chris, it's been a pleasure to be with you, but before we go, I would really love it if you would share with us some of your talents with regard to whistling.
• 45:48
  Roger Ream: Would you whistle a song for us?
• 45:50
  Chris Ullman: I would be delighted and thank you for having me today, roger.
• 45:52
  Chris Ullman: I really appreciate it.
• 45:53
  Chris Ullman: So this is a bell from Beauty and the Beast.
• 45:56
  Chris Ullman: All right, that's great.
• 46:14
  Chris Ullman: I hear the applause.
• 46:17
  Roger Ream: That's wonderful.
• 46:17
  Roger Ream: That's a great talent You've harnessed and for a lot of good, I know you've you've whistled for my eight year old Well, it's my niece's eight year old son who's battling, been battling cancer.
• 46:30
  Roger Ream: You've whistled for a lot of people who who've needed brightening up and in their lives, and so thank you for doing that.
• 46:37
  Roger Ream: And you whistled a ton of happy birthdays to people around the world.
• 46:42
  Chris Ullman: Well, it's a blessing that I am happy to share.
• 46:44
  Chris Ullman: Thank you.
• 46:46
  Roger Ream: Well, my guest today has been Chris Almond.
• 46:48
  Roger Ream: Thank you very much for joining me.
• 46:49
  Roger Ream: Thank you, sir.
• 46:50
  Roger Ream: Thank you for listening to the Liberty and Leadership podcast.
• 46:54
  Roger Ream: Please don't forget to subscribe, download, like or share the show on Apple, spotify or YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast.
• 47:04
  Roger Ream: If you like this episode, I ask you to rate and review it, and if you have a comment or question for the show, please drop us an email.
• 47:12
  Roger Ream: At podcast.
• 47:13
  Roger Ream: At TFASorg, the Liberty and Leadership podcast is produced at K Global Studios in Washington DC.
• 47:20
  Roger Ream: I'm your host, roger Reem, and until next time, show courage in things, large and small.