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Guðmundur & Geirfinnur: The Reykjavik Confessions · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:00
  But events of the not too distant past would prove perilous to the future of the happy little family.
• 0:09
  The Guðmundur and Geirfinnur cases are the stuff of legend, frequently referenced in various forms of Icelandic pop culture, and really in everyday life.
• 0:23
  Both men shared the same patronemic surname, though they weren't related.
• 0:30
  Hi Cassie! Hi Caitlyn! Hi creepy people! Hello there! Hello! I am waving! She's always waving. Y'all, she's always waving.
• 0:49
  If you are new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, paranormal, and all things creepy spooky, dukey in the Pacific Northwest.
• 1:03
  And we do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for deeper insight into our topic. So make sure you stick around if you're into that.
• 1:12
  I will be sticking around. You definitely will be today. I'm forced. Also that, yeah. I'm handcuffed to my chair right now.
• 1:21
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• 1:26
  Well you'll see, it's funny how we sort of seemed to pick up on little cues about each other's topics. Oh god!
• 1:36
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• 1:47
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• 3:25
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• 3:34
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• 3:45
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• 3:50
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• 3:58
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• 4:07
  Nicole, you're so creepy. Creepy like Richie. What?
• 4:12
  Nicole Richie. Oh, God, that's.
• 4:16
  I like her. Yeah, me too. And I like, you know what? I like Nicole, our Nicole better.
• 4:23
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• 4:29
  Oh, God, somebody tell Nicole the other one, you know.
• 4:34
  But where obsessed with our Nicole for now? Yeah.
• 4:38
  Nicole.
• 4:41
  That's from New Girl. I'm sorry. Everything I say is from New Girl. I apologize, but also I don't.
• 4:49
  Being our friend means never having to say or sorry for making New Girl jokes.
• 4:56
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• 5:02
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• 5:07
  Hey, you joined our Patreon, so you must like it. We are a little slap happy.
• 5:14
  Yeah. All right. Well, thank you guys. We really appreciate it. We hope you enjoy all of our
• 5:20
  tarot videos and all the extra content we have. We do have a bonus episode coming soon.
• 5:26
  virus, virus. That was a fun one. That was fun. That was really good.
• 5:32
  That was, I mean, it's going to be a really lighthearted, funny one. So, beavers.
• 5:37
  That's all I have to say. Beavers. Oh, my God.
• 5:41
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• 5:57
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• 6:04
  $5. So you can check it out. If you don't like it, I mean, you don't have to subscribe.
• 6:09
  But I think we think you're going to like it because the last person who did the free trial signed up.
• 6:13
  So there's that. I should tell you all you need to know. Yeah.
• 6:17
  Kimberly will be taking questions about the $5 tier whenever you're ready.
• 6:22
  Don't put that on her. Sorry Kimberly. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. I guess enough shenanigans.
• 6:31
  Let's get into true crap. I changed my mind. I don't want to. Okay.
• 6:37
  I'll tell you a ghost story. Oh, well, I don't want to have written, but I'll make one up.
• 6:43
  In that case, I'll get started.
• 6:46
  Our story hails from a rural countryside characterized by harsh terrain, earthquakes, and even volcanic eruptions.
• 6:57
  My literal worst nightmare, volcanoes.
• 7:02
  During winter time, days get shorter. And by mid December, the locals can only expect to glean roughly
• 7:10
  five hours of daylight due to the country's high latitude. I'm okay with that.
• 7:17
  We literally walked outside in the sun today and attacked our eyes. Yeah. I felt like vampires.
• 7:23
  I mean, I felt like it was the most Oregonian thing we've done recently. Yeah. Yeah. We almost let on fire.
• 7:32
  That puts sunrise at approximately 11 a.m. while the sun sets between the hours of three and four p.m.
• 7:41
  Conversely, during the summer months, the country experiences nearly 23 straight hours of daylight.
• 7:49
  If you had to guess, what would you say is the geographic location of our story today?
• 7:55
  If you get this one right, I'll feed you another fun fact of cultural significance to help you out, which you won't need the tip at that point.
• 8:05
  But what if I get it wrong? Do I knock at the fun fact? Full disclosure, this is actually information that I want to include in relation to the case.
• 8:15
  So I'm actually going to tell you either way.
• 8:18
  Learning more about this mysterious place at the end of the world is not contingent on you correctly guessing the location.
• 8:27
  I'm going to guess it's not Pacific Northwest. I don't know. Um, um, country. Um, in Antarctica somewhere up there.
• 8:37
  Not quite. Oh, damn it. Iceland.
• 8:40
  Ah, I was my next line. Did I give it away? How I thought did you catch on to I definitely didn't catch on anything.
• 8:49
  I pulled that right out of my butt. Wow. Well, your butt is impressive as always. Thank you.
• 8:56
  I thought maybe the line mysterious place at the end of the world would be a giveaway.
• 9:05
  That's why I thought Antarctica, but that's not a country. Well, in this case, I was actually kind of trying to drop a hint about a show that I know both you and I particularly enjoy.
• 9:17
  Was that an Iceland? It was. I thought it was an Antarctica. No. I just assumed because of all the barren snowland.
• 9:25
  Very similar. I watched that show two times and didn't know that. Really? I was just very focused on one aspect of the show.
• 9:34
  I was very curious. That was a really good clue though that you had and I am upset that I didn't pick up on it, but also I did get it right.
• 9:42
  So you did get it right. So I think maybe it weedled its way into your brain. I think so too. That does happen a lot.
• 9:49
  Yeah. Like I don't know how I know this, but my brain remembered it. Yeah. That's pretty cool.
• 9:58
  Now before we continue, here's our fun fact. A patronemic surname originates from the given name of one's father or a patronennial ancestor.
• 10:10
  All over the world, different cultures have different ways of producing patronemic names in a variety of ways. For example, my father's name is Robert and according to some customs, my last name or surname as it's commonly known in many places outside of the United States.
• 10:27
  Would be Caitlyn and last name, Robert's daughter. Oh wow. Interesting. Yeah. I'd hate that. Yeah. It does lead to a lot of confusion. So I felt like laying that out might help us down the road here.
• 10:49
  How many Roberts are there in the world? You're like, who is daughter? Am I correct? Yeah. It gets a little confusing. And I think I'm going to have a really great example right around the corner. Right. Okay.
• 11:02
  When a citizen dies in Iceland, the largest publication of the nation publishes an obituary regardless of their social status, exploits or lack thereof.
• 11:15
  If we didn't drop enough clues for you to parse it out yet, we're talking Icelandic true crime today. Oh, I'm so excited. Not for the crime, but yeah, for visiting Iceland for just a little bit in our minds. Just just for a little just for a school.
• 11:37
  So we'll begin with an overview and some interesting facts about Iceland that may help us in forming context surrounding the criminal case in question.
• 11:47
  The Icelandic phone book is alphabetical by first names. Oh my god. Which is an oddity at least for many Westerners until one considers the fact that every single citizen of the small fierce Viking nation is listed by name, complete with a draft.
• 12:06
  And so we're talking about the same thing with a dress, including the president. Holy shit. It's a quaint aspect of the culture that Icelanders are known to cultivate in modern times as the inhabitants of an unforgiving landscape famous for both dramatic weather and scenery.
• 12:26
  I think that the president's address was in there, but I guess we all know where our president lives. It's not a secret. Yeah, exactly.
• 12:35
  I think the thing that stands out for me just with this particular detail. And I think it'll make a little bit more sense as we get into the story a little bit more is that it kind of says a lot about how safe.
• 12:55
  Most people have felt living in Iceland. Yeah, most people.
• 13:03
  Iceland was a newly and fiercely independent nation by 1944. Some might argue nationalist and insular potato potato potatoes potatoes.
• 13:18
  Until 1995, foreigners could only live in Iceland if they gave up their last name for one that complied with Icelandic grammar. And I'm assuming that just means the patronemic system. Wow.
• 13:33
  And I'm going to sprinkle in some other historical and fun facts as we go.
• 13:39
  Erla was a middle child born on July 19, 1955 in Reykjavik. Her name is very difficult to say even though it's only four letters and I'm probably still not fully nailing it, but it's like this R, but not quite a hard R, but also kind of a T sound, but not quite a full.
• 14:08
  It's like, Erla, almost. Oh, that's you did a pretty good job. I feel like I hope so.
• 14:16
  Her mother, Thora was a beautiful woman, modeling both at home and abroad. She took pride in the family's appearance. She would also serve as the household disciplinarian.
• 14:28
  Oh, Thora, I bet she had that hammer. Right. It sounds like she was pretty good about laying down the hammer. Her father, Boli, had worked as a station manager for an airline.
• 14:42
  Is this like Ole Bolle? The troll guy? I think so. The troll statue. Oh my gosh. I mean, not the same guy, but yeah, but we were saying it like bowl, bowl, bowl.
• 14:55
  The family would temporarily relocate to the States during the height of his career success. When the family eventually returned to Iceland, it gave Etla an appealing era of mystery amongst her peers.
• 15:11
  Oh, I would say so. Yeah, they were like, wow.
• 15:18
  But sadly, as is too often the case, for many of our moments standing in the light, there is a darkness acting as an ever present counterbalance.
• 15:29
  As a young girl, Erla was molested when she spent time at a countryside farm as part of a longstanding Icelandic tradition.
• 15:39
  The summertime survival habit had been ingrained beginning in an agriculturally dominant era before forces of socio economic revolution sent many, swapping to more densely populated cities.
• 15:54
  It led to her withdrawal from the family, coinciding with a period that may have offered some allowance for what likely seemed like kind of fairly typical teenage rebellion at first blush.
• 16:11
  Things would worsen as her father was eventually caught in an embezzlement scheme. His employer did not press charges, which speaks to just how popular, how successful and well liked he was within that company.
• 16:28
  Wow. And he was embezzling from that company and they didn't press charges.
• 16:33
  But he did find himself without gainful employment. Well, at least there's that seems more than fair. Yeah, like, oh, you can stay. Just don't do it again. Right. No, not so much.
• 16:45
  Eventually, the financial strain led to the dissolution of her parents marriage.
• 16:51
  Sævar Ciesielski, born July 6, 1955, was a son of a Polish American father and Icelandic mother. His last name did not follow the patronomic tradition of his mother's homeland and it set him apart from his peers.
• 17:11
  He was a strict household in a low income neighborhood where his often drunk and abusive father reigned supreme.
• 17:20
  Sævar was frequently disagreeable and disobedient both in and out of school.
• 17:27
  As is often the case for kids that are facing that kind of a difficult home dynamic, but I digress.
• 17:37
  Eventually, he was sent to a reform school known as Breiðavik as a teen.
• 17:46
  Your tone doesn't doesn't make me feel very good about this place. No, it's on the level similar to a lot of the Native American and indigenous schools based in the US and Canada or the abusive orphanages in
• 18:06
  Ireland. There are a lot of parallels. Not dissimilar to those briefly very popular institutions that promise to take your kid from the set of the Maury show and reform them.
• 18:27
  Like the tough love boot camp type of things to whip you into shape. Yes, but to break you down and make you complacent.
• 18:37
  Heavy on the tough and the boot camp and not so much so on the love. I think I meant to say compliant.
• 18:45
  Prior to its 1979 closure, countless children suffered all manner of sinister abuse within the walls of the now infamous institution.
• 18:58
  And this is a pretty startling statistic related to Breiðavik.
• 19:05
  Up to 75% of the previous residential attendees would later prove to be entangled within the justice system in some respect.
• 19:15
  That's not very surprising. No. And call it a reform school is wildly inaccurate.
• 19:23
  Yeah. And we have the data to back that up. There wasn't much reforming. No, for good. Maybe reforming for evil.
• 19:32
  Yeah. Erla and Sævar bonded over their shared experience at a party one evening as teams after both unwittingly imbibed beverages.
• 19:43
  Apparently spiked with LSD. Oh snap. Yep.
• 19:49
  Which seems a bit odd for a meet-cute when one considers Iceland's own relationship to the prohibition era of alcohol. They had their own prohibition.
• 20:01
  I'm gonna tell you. Okay. Okay.
• 20:03
  Alcohol was banned in 1915 by public vote. But by 1922, wine was allowed due in no small part to the fact that Spain threatened to no longer purchase salted cod.
• 20:17
  They could no longer export and sell wine to Icelanders seems fair. Yeah. Spirits were legal again in 1935. However, beer over 2.25% ABV remained under prohibition.
• 20:35
  But liquor was fine. Okay. Yep. I know. It's very strange. Wine is way over 2.5% sure is. Okay.
• 20:45
  In the 70s, there was such a demand for beer that bartenders began serving ghost beers.
• 20:53
  Oh ghost beer? Yeah. I want one. Do you want to guess what it is? Ghost beer. Is it just beer without alcohol in it?
• 21:04
  I mean close. It's actually a mixture of non-alcoholic ale and vodka. Oh, okay. That makes sense. I was gonna say earlier like they could just add the liquor to their beer. Yeah. I should have. Yeah.
• 21:19
  You would have been like, oh, you which? I know. Smuggling beer into Iceland was a great money maker, particularly for fishermen who were technically allowed to import small amounts.
• 21:33
  Those looking to serve a larger market would do something akin to our story from whale cove. Yeah. In the States abandoning booze near the beach.
• 21:46
  Again, in what appears to be such a straight-laced society, this just struck me as bizarre.
• 21:54
  And here are a couple more peculiar legal line items. In 1974, Icelanders couldn't have dogs as pets or own lizards.
• 22:08
  And they couldn't watch TV on Thursdays by law. Okay. Why? That is so weird. I don't know. No TV on Thursdays.
• 22:21
  Weird choice, but okay, moving on. Did they cut like all broadcasting so there wouldn't be on anything on TV? Because how they know. I don't know. I don't know.
• 22:31
  Apparently the 70s were wild even in the lone island nation of Iceland. I guess. Really bizarre.
• 22:41
  You have to have ghost beer and no TV on Thursdays. Yeah. I know. Cassie is like, I mean, I could live there. Yeah, I still could live there.
• 22:50
  Erla and Sævar spent the remainder of the night talking and whether it was the result of a truly unique connection or the psychedelics, their teenage love affair was off to the races from there.
• 23:05
  I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was mostly the LSD. I mean, could have been. It's hard to say.
• 23:14
  Sævar was a bad boy, dabbling in the creative indie film industry. And Erla was a girl completely unconcerned with her mother's disapproval.
• 23:25
  She probably liked it. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Oh, that was heavily implied. I mean, same girl. The bad boys. Yeah. Yeah. You will grow out of it. Yeah. Maybe. I mean, most of us do. Right.
• 23:43
  I guess. I don't. It's still undetermined times are tough. You know, around this time, she transitioned to living in her newly single father's household.
• 23:56
  But she soon found herself feeling isolated when her father suffered a stroke and she was left alone at the flat during a lengthy hospital stay as he recovered. Oh, damn.
• 24:09
  Sævar and Erla proved apparelously pernicious pair. Why would you do that to yourself? Because it sounded cool. Do you say pernicious? Yes. What is pernicious?
• 24:21
  I'm going to read you the definition because I was like, oh, I love this word. Yeah. I mean, Cassie's not going to know what this means. Let's put it in here.
• 24:30
  Pernicious is an adjective, meaning having a harmful effect, especially in a gradual or subtle way.
• 24:38
  Oh, damn. That was good. Could not be more accurate. Wow. This is also for learning. You know, we're basically the learning channel. Yeah. I mean, we could be. Do they teach any real learning on there?
• 24:55
  Do they teach any real learning on the learning channel? Sibar and Eitla proved apparelously pernicious pair quickly exacting a plan cooked up by Erla herself to fraudulently collect a sizable sum of Icelandic Króna.
• 25:14
  Was it her father that did the exhaustion or his? It was her father that embezzled.
• 25:20
  Oh, right. E words, you know, so she learned from her father basically. I mean, she certainly may have taken away the message that financial crimes are not that big of a deal.
• 25:35
  In 1974, they fled to Copenhagen. I think normally we say Copenhagen, but I think that's how they say it. Probably.
• 25:47
  It's their city. So, you know, as things heated up around their crime, because they actually did that whole stealing money thing more than once. Oh, damn.
• 25:59
  They were likely altogether unaware of suspicions that authorities held against them in relation to other criminal cases that they suspected were linked, though they hadn't quite worked out how exactly.
• 26:13
  I think in Copenhagen, Copenhagen, Copenhagen, I like when you extend the A's. Hagen, Hagen. Yeah. Erla discovered that she was pregnant with the young couple's child.
• 26:29
  They were about to become first time parents. Oh boy. Oh boy.
• 26:34
  Shortly before the birth of their daughter, Julia, in September 1975, the couple returned to Reykjavik. It was only a short time after the birth of their daughter that Sævar and Erla severed their romantic relationship, though they agreed to continue living together. Oh, that's never a good idea. Well, they wanted to co-parent. Yeah.
• 26:59
  It seemed like they were trying to go about it in a mature way. I don't know that that breakup would have been permanent if things had gone a different way.
• 27:11
  Oh, despite the recent breakup, Erla was blissful in her new domestic and maternal role. But events of the not too distant past would prove perilous to the future of the happy little family.
• 27:28
  The Guðmundur and Geirfinnur cases are the stuff of legend, frequently referenced in various forms of Icelandic pop culture, and really in everyday life.
• 27:42
  Both men shared the same patronomics or name, though they weren't related. With an understanding of the patronomic name system, this makes a bit more sense.
• 27:53
  And hopefully makes it a little bit easier to mentally sort some of these characters as the story and bolts.
• 28:01
  Yeah, I'm glad you explained that earlier.
• 28:05
  On January 26th of 1974, Guðmundur Einarsson went out for the evening with friends. He was an 18-year-old construction laborer who lived in an area that might have been tricky to traverse on a good day.
• 28:22
  But this was a particularly chilly night. For a country with ice in the name, I feel like that's actually saying something.
• 28:31
  Yeah.
• 28:32
  The terrain in his travels was also notably challenging. Probably a task many would have reservations about attempting in a sober state.
• 28:42
  All the same, Guðmundur went off on foot to make his way home that evening. So he was out clubbing and decided to walk home.
• 28:52
  Oh, damn. Nothing like a little bit of liquid courage.
• 28:56
  Yeah, I mean, at least you're not driving. So yeah, that's true.
• 29:02
  Various sources reported the story of two young women that said they had seen him that evening as he was likely making his way home.
• 29:12
  They claimed to have seen Guðmundur and another man described as an aggressive drunk.
• 29:21
  Oh, we hate those.
• 29:23
  Yeah, don't love it. The fuck, man.
• 29:26
  Whether independently or as a pair, they appeared to have been attempting to wave down a car to hitchhike.
• 29:34
  The last reported sighting of Guðmundur was as he nearly fell in front of an oncoming motorist along the side of the road to intoxicated to balance himself amongst the heavy snow.
• 29:48
  Oh, no.
• 29:49
  So not great.
• 29:51
  Yeah, yeah, I can't even imagine trying to walk in the snow like that.
• 29:56
  When he no call, no showed to work. He was reported missing.
• 30:02
  It was several months later that Geirfinnur Einarsson, husband and father of two went missing as well.
• 30:09
  On the day of his disappearance back in November of that same year, a work colleague had driven Geirfinnur to a nearby cafe where he purchased a pack of cigarettes.
• 30:20
  At a cafe?
• 30:21
  Yeah, I guess that used to be a really common thing.
• 30:24
  Oh, interesting.
• 30:25
  And definitely in a lot of European countries.
• 30:28
  Oh, okay.
• 30:29
  Yeah.
• 30:30
  That same person had given him a lift to the cafe, then invited him to the local cinema.
• 30:36
  Ooh, for a movie?
• 30:38
  Yeah.
• 30:39
  Cigs and a movie.
• 30:40
  Cigs and a movie?
• 30:42
  Geirfinnur declined as he said he had plans for the evening.
• 30:46
  His wife said once he had returned home, she heard him answer the phone a short while later telling the caller, "I've been there already.
• 30:56
  I'll be there."
• 30:58
  Oh.
• 31:01
  Following that short phone call, he left their home to return to the cafe in nearby Keflavik.
• 31:08
  His vehicle would later be described with the key in the ignition.
• 31:13
  Apparently he hadn't intended to be away from the...
• 31:16
  I presume at a certain point it was still running car for more than a moment or two.
• 31:22
  Wow.
• 31:23
  Last seen in a phone booth outside of the cafe, police surprisingly wasted no time in opening a murder investigation.
• 31:32
  Oh, wow.
• 31:33
  That was fast.
• 31:35
  Yes.
• 31:36
  And I was hoping you were going to have that reaction.
• 31:38
  Sometimes it's hard to figure out, like, "Wait, what?
• 31:43
  Why did they do that?"
• 31:44
  Yeah.
• 31:45
  I mean, this seems almost suspicious in its own right.
• 31:50
  Sure, it doesn't look great that he essentially abandoned his vehicle with the keys inside, but it still seems like assuming murder could be a bit of a leap.
• 31:59
  Yeah, I feel like they just... they don't do that.
• 32:02
  I mean, I don't know about their country.
• 32:03
  Yeah.
• 32:04
  Here they definitely don't.
• 32:06
  Definitely don't.
• 32:07
  And it just seems like an in-nation that is historically considered such a safe place.
• 32:13
  It's odd.
• 32:14
  It's almost like, what do they know?
• 32:16
  Yeah.
• 32:17
  You know.
• 32:18
  Searches were conducted in the Keflavik Harbor and nearby Lava Fields, but it appeared that Geirfinnur had vanished.
• 32:27
  Of course, authorities were very interested in the call that he had received shortly before his disappearance.
• 32:34
  Yeah.
• 32:35
  Makes sense.
• 32:37
  I'm interested.
• 32:38
  I know, right?
• 32:39
  Wouldn't we all like to know?
• 32:41
  Did they find like blood or something?
• 32:44
  Not that I'm aware of.
• 32:45
  God, like those searches are so expensive, aren't they?
• 32:50
  Yeah.
• 32:50
  It's a pretty exhaustive search that they launched basically immediately.
• 32:56
  So, like I said, it does make you kind of wonder.
• 32:59
  The case intensified into a nationwide hunt.
• 33:03
  Yet their efforts would not yield any meaningful leads.
• 33:07
  The investigation bore no fruit.
• 33:09
  And months in, they still had no forensic evidence, let alone a body, and no witnesses.
• 33:18
  By the summer of 1975, they had exhausted the list of extremely limited leads they had started with, and the case was quickly going cold.
• 33:29
  Damn.
• 33:30
  On December 12th of 1975, Sævar was arrested on suspicion of embezzlement, as was Erla the next day.
• 33:42
  Catching up to them finally?
• 33:44
  Yeah.
• 33:45
  For context, the pair was arrested at a time when the tiny Icelandic police force was already facing intense scrutiny following the shooting of a taxi driver that had remained unsolved.
• 33:58
  But that dated back to 1968.
• 34:01
  So, it was recent-ish.
• 34:06
  Yeah.
• 34:08
  Violent crimes were, and actually my research indicates today that for the most part they are still rare.
• 34:17
  This accounted for the mounting pressure to solve the peculiar disappearance of Geirfinnur Einarsson.
• 34:25
  The legal system at this time was an inquisitorial system inherited from the Danes.
• 34:31
  It allowed judges to be actively involved in cases, even gathering evidence and participating in interrogations.
• 34:38
  The judges?
• 34:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:40
  Oh.
• 34:41
  That doesn't- okay.
• 34:42
  There's a lot of really confusing crossover between different bodies that we see as typically very separate.
• 34:52
  Yeah.
• 34:53
  I guess if it's a smaller population, Nordic legal systems have for the most part shifted to adversarial principles.
• 35:03
  So, that's more akin to what's familiar to many Westerners, like people in the UK and really for American audiences.
• 35:16
  From one moment to the next, the suspects couldn't be completely clear on who exactly they were speaking to and what their motives might be.
• 35:24
  And I think you'll see why as we go on.
• 35:27
  That's gotta be confusing.
• 35:29
  It's very confusing, and it was just one aspect of the disorientation that would color the case.
• 35:38
  Six suspects, along with many others on the periphery of the case, would be swept up in a swift and overzealous justice system.
• 35:47
  Sævar Ciesielski, Kristján Viðar Viðarsson, Tryggvi Rúnar Leifsson, Albert Klahn Skaftason,
• 35:58
  .Guðjón Skarphéðinsson,
• 36:07
  and I'm not even gonna try your last name Guðjón,
• 36:10
  and Erla Bolladóttir.
• 36:13
  I didn't catch those. Can you repeat?
• 36:16
  No. Absolutely not. Just kidding.
• 36:19
  Each of whom would eventually sign confessions to murder, even though they had no clear memory of committing the crimes.
• 36:28
  All of those people?
• 36:30
  Six people.
• 36:33
  Okay. The suspects said they signed the confessions in order to put an end to their solitary confinement.
• 36:41
  Oh no, that's... oh that's the worst.
• 36:46
  Is your handcuff comment making a little more sense now?
• 36:50
  Yeah, I'm so sorry.
• 36:53
  One experiment dating back to the 1950s showed that after just a couple of days in isolated chambers, monkeys had taken to patterns of self-harm.
• 37:04
  The monkeys?
• 37:06
  Oh, oh, not the monkeys.
• 37:10
  They're not the only mammals made vulnerable by such an environment.
• 37:16
  In a matter of days, the human brain can be rewired in a manner that is explained in scientific studies on the subject as "stuper" or "delirium."
• 37:28
  Oh, so a handful of days. Keep that in mind.
• 37:34
  Wow.
• 37:36
  They were also subjected to sleep deprivation and in Sævar’s case, even water torture, which is particularly cruel given his fear of water.
• 37:47
  Oh no.
• 37:49
  Gudjonsson is a former Reykjavik police officer who was in the forest at the time of the disappearances.
• 37:57
  He also administered polygraph tests related to the investigation.
• 38:02
  He is now a renowned memory expert and forensic psychologist.
• 38:07
  His theory of memory distrust syndrome is an essential aspect of his international renown.
• 38:15
  It's a disordered way of thinking in which individuals start distrusting their own memories and become influenced by others.
• 38:24
  For our purposes, this is typically brought on by some pretty harrowing circumstances.
• 38:31
  Like the ones you've been describing, I assume.
• 38:35
  The false confession expert, increasing distrust in the authority and government systems, all lead to a petition which would be signed by 1190 citizens of Iceland for a reappraisal of these six suspects case.
• 38:56
  In October 2012, the effort would commence.
• 39:02
  So I'm kind of glossing over.
• 39:06
  Obviously they were convicted.
• 39:09
  And it's pretty laughable.
• 39:13
  All six of them were convicted?
• 39:15
  Yes. In one form or another, not necessarily all of murder.
• 39:20
  And we can talk a little bit more about their charges. I think, but what I really want to focus on is kind of delving into the memory distrust syndrome.
• 39:33
  And how that happens.
• 39:35
  Prison logs would reveal shocking data about the group's time in custody.
• 39:40
  They were each subjected to hundreds of days in solitary confinement.
• 39:48
  Hundreds.
• 39:51
  Erla was held in solitary confinement for a staggering 242 days.
• 39:57
  But sadly, while her count was not the lowest, it was decidedly on the low end, only beat by Albert, who tallied a reported 87 days.
• 40:09
  Holy shit, dude.
• 40:11
  And only after a couple of days or a handful of days you start seeing effects.
• 40:17
  Two of the other suspects being held were kept under solitary confinement for over 600 days.
• 40:24
  And one of whom, Tryggvi, for 655 days.
• 40:33
  According to the most recent available data is the longest solitary confinement outside of the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.
• 40:43
  That's like two years, almost.
• 40:47
  It was this before after they were convicted. Before? Before.
• 40:53
  So they were being severely punished for something they weren't even convicted of yet. Holy shit.
• 41:00
  The long detention was common in this era, many places the world over, and allowed for periods of custody to be repeatedly extended, which is what happened to a number of them.
• 41:13
  Wow.
• 41:14
  The findings regarding their access to legal counsel were equally egregious.
• 41:19
  There was evidence recorded indicating that they were purposefully kept from their counsel, resulting in 50% or less of their overall interviews.
• 41:29
  Or more accurately, largely unethical interrogations with authorities.
• 41:36
  They didn't have counsel. These were unmonitored by their legal defense.
• 41:44
  It's just so many wrong things. How?
• 41:50
  They were woefully unprepared to deal with this type of a criminal case, because they just did not deal with a lot of violent crime.
• 42:00
  And that's not to excuse any of this. But then there were numerous discrepancies in the case.
• 42:07
  So these are all things that should be coming to light or should be fairly obvious through the course of a trial.
• 42:16
  There's no jury in this type of a system. Of course not.
• 42:21
  Take for example, the night of Geirfinnur's disappearance, the temperature was negative 4 degrees Celsius, as was the following date.
• 42:32
  So that puts the temperature at or around freezing roughly.
• 42:39
  On November 21st, when the group had supposedly buried a body, it was negative 10.
• 42:48
  Oh, okay.
• 42:50
  So the story that was produced through numerous false confessions all goaded by essentially torture.
• 43:03
  There was no way that it was even possibly true because they would have needed a pneumatic drill to penetrate the frozen ground of Rudeholler.
• 43:16
  Wow. Was there snow?
• 43:18
  Oh, yes, snow and ice.
• 43:20
  But they weren't saying they were like burying him in the snow.
• 43:24
  It was like in the ground.
• 43:26
  Presumably a shallow grave, but just to break through that top layer, like I said, they would have needed a pneumatic drill.
• 43:36
  So the fact that they confessed to a burying to have buried a body makes no sense.
• 43:43
  The weather and terrain, the conditions of their environment would not have allowed that.
• 43:50
  Wow.
• 43:52
  Interesting aside here, one of the only imprisoned suspects that did not appear to fall victim to memory distrust syndrome at any point was Sævar.
• 44:03
  Damn.
• 44:04
  I don't know how because he really took the brunt of a lot of the abuse.
• 44:10
  It wasn't until much later as an adult that Sævar was diagnosed with ADHD.
• 44:17
  As an adult, but as a child, his disruptive behavior and inattentive nature in school were viewed as possible indicators for psychopathy.
• 44:28
  Psychopathy?
• 44:30
  Just a little bit extreme.
• 44:32
  Wow.
• 44:33
  Yeah.
• 44:34
  For their complicating matters, he had learning difficulties that had been compounded by a childhood surgery.
• 44:41
  Oh.
• 44:43
  Repeated abuses of power by numerous authority figures throughout his life would only strengthen his obstinancy.
• 44:52
  Apply these facts to the events that would unfold when he was falsely accused and imprisoned for murder.
• 44:58
  And suddenly you can see why he so staunchly refused to give in and presented the greatest resistance when pressured to confess.
• 45:08
  When he did appear to cave, it was often in a bid to show law enforcement the error of their ways.
• 45:15
  Wow.
• 45:16
  So he, wow, his mind was really intact.
• 45:20
  I don't know that I can say intact, but there were certain aspects of his faculties that he was able to maintain.
• 45:29
  Yeah.
• 45:30
  Just like more aware of what's going on.
• 45:33
  More self-aware.
• 45:34
  That's for sure.
• 45:35
  Holy shit.
• 45:36
  He would sometimes provide false information that, of course, proved to be false and consequently many involved in the investigation completely convinced of his guilt and that of his compatriots hated him.
• 45:51
  Because they thought he was basically just being a pain in the ass, which he was.
• 45:59
  But for good reason.
• 46:03
  As investigators would find factual information proving aspects of one of the group's confessions inaccurate, implausible or altogether impossible.
• 46:17
  The suspect's in custody would slowly be fed new information or details in an attempt to re-synchronize their confessions in the case.
• 46:27
  Geez. How do you just, how do you do that? Like it's, you know it's wrong while you're doing it. You have to.
• 46:37
  You know that certain aspects of what they're saying, it can't possibly be true. And yet you're just feeding them information to make it true.
• 46:47
  Yeah.
• 46:48
  Sævar caught onto this and decided to test his theory in March 1977, feeding the name of a supposed witness to the murder within a week.
• 47:00
  The first of the group began recounting the same detail about this individual having been present as a witness.
• 47:08
  Oh, which they'd never had mentioned them before. Yes. So after weeks of being in custody, suddenly the group slowly starts to remember, oh yeah, this other guy.
• 47:25
  God, what a mental fuck, dude. I hope they didn't bring the other guy in.
• 47:32
  In completely understandable, but incredibly stark contrast at one point while compiling a list of people, Erla had seen in Keflavik at the time in question.
• 47:44
  She even mentioned JFK.
• 47:48
  John fucking Kennedy. What year was this?
• 47:52
  Keep in mind that he was a man who had been assassinated roughly a decade prior on the other end of the world in Dallas, Texas, if you recall from history class.
• 48:05
  I mean, I know there's theories that conspiracies that he didn't actually die, which how? It was very clear.
• 48:15
  Also, I've never heard the one about how he pops up in Iceland ten years later. It's a new one for sure.
• 48:24
  But JFK wasn't the only one on the list that she had compiled over time that couldn't possibly have been there.
• 48:32
  It included people that just were on the other side of Iceland or had an alibi.
• 48:41
  Was Elvis on the list? I don't know that Elvis actually made the list.
• 48:49
  Darn. The group was truly unraveling. But for some of them, it would only be clear in the aftermath.
• 48:57
  Further evidence of the fast and furious derailing of these young people can be evidenced in numerous other instances where more than one in the group implicated that they had pertinent information
• 49:10
  or new of others involved in the supposed murders. Because remember, we still do not have bodies.
• 49:18
  Oh, that's right. Yeah. Oh, God.
• 49:22
  Einar Bollason was basically a beloved basketball champion in Iceland.
• 49:28
  But more important to the story at hand, he was also Erla's half brother.
• 49:36
  He would be subjected to solitary confinement along with Magnús Leópoldsson, Valdimar Olsen and Sigurbjörn Eiríksson, after Erla and other suspects in custody implicated them in the crimes they were accused of.
• 49:56
  Shit, dude. So just a few more people.
• 50:01
  Like how many people do you need to keep compiling in this crime?
• 50:07
  So I know this feels a little bit out of order. And it's because it doesn't make sense if you consider how most of us probably think the justice system is supposed to work in current day.
• 50:20
  I'm telling it this way because you need to understand that the vast majority of all of this really reprehensible abuse that they have suffered has all been prior to conviction.
• 50:33
  Yeah, that's crazy.
• 50:35
  Sævar, Kristján and Tryggvi were convicted for killing Guðmundur. Albert was convicted for helping to hide the body.
• 50:46
  Sævar, Kristján as well as Guðjón were later convicted for killing Geirfinnur Einarsson. Erla was convicted of perjury after she implicated her half brother and others in the disappearance.
• 51:02
  And make a note, this is a crime that she was driven to after essentially being subjected to state sanction torture with no end in sight.
• 51:15
  She was mother to a brand new baby that she had been capped from.
• 51:24
  So yeah, I think I would purge her myself too.
• 51:28
  Yeah, I was going to say like did she actually do those things or did they tell her that she did those things?
• 51:34
  Technically she did purge herself because she implicated people that were clearly not involved. But they tortured her.
• 51:41
  Yeah, it's just like the witch trials. Oh, man.
• 51:46
  After 18 months of investigation in March 2013, a report released by the government revealed and I quote,
• 51:55
  "In competence and abuses of the police investigation, cue the duh."
• 52:02
  Yeah, the notion.
• 52:04
  The report cited solitary confinement, the improper usage of medication, in human treatment such as water torture, sleep deprivation, as well as denial of legal counsel, and assumption of guilt as main contributing factors to false confessions.
• 52:25
  It's it's just so much.
• 52:29
  They also cited that the lack of forensic evidence, bodies, and motive was also missing from the investigation.
• 52:39
  Yeah, like why? You might have, you may as well have just run around town, any meany, mindy mo.
• 52:48
  Still, it wasn't until February 2017 that the Interior Ministry's Rehearing Committee concluded that the cases of Saevar, Kristjan, Tryggvi, and Gudjon should be rehered by the Supreme Court of Iceland.
• 53:08
  Even after all the time that it passed since the trying days of their incarceration, the committee did not recommend a retrial for Erla.
• 53:19
  Why?
• 53:22
  There's a lot of speculation as far as how that may be due in part two, I don't know, misogyny, sexism, what the fuck?
• 53:35
  But that would not be the last of it. And we are now entering territory information that I collected from newspapers that I had to translate from primarily Icelandic.
• 53:51
  Like you translated it yourself?
• 53:54
  I did not.
• 53:56
  Oh, I made the Google machine translate it.
• 53:58
  Oh, that's what I meant.
• 54:00
  Oh, yes, okay, yes, no, you wouldn't learn Icelandic and translate it.
• 54:06
  Yeah, it feels like it's good a time as any.
• 54:09
  I am now fluent in Icelandic.
• 54:12
  How do you say suck my dick in Icelandic?
• 54:16
  Good question.
• 54:18
  Oh, man.
• 54:20
  In February 2018, the state prosecutor requested that the Supreme Court acquit Saevar, Kristjan, Tryggvi, Gudjon, and Erla.
• 54:32
  And on September 27, 2018, the Supreme Court acquitted all of the men, but did not reverse Erla's conviction.
• 54:43
  That's so fucked. I'm so mad.
• 54:46
  German politician Andrej Hunko submitted a request to the federal government to provide compensation to the now acquitted five in May 2019 due to the involvement of the German federal crime office or BKA in the original investigations.
• 55:08
  We didn't even get to this, but an involved a guy named Karl, Karl, who was referred to as a super cop.
• 55:19
  And while he was actually a cop, he didn't turn out to be all that super.
• 55:24
  A super cop.
• 55:26
  That's just, you shouldn't put those words together.
• 55:30
  Sorry.
• 55:31
  It's not great.
• 55:33
  It's an interesting piece of the case, but I had to draw the line somewhere, less this become a two or three part series, which I suppose if there's enough demand, I could be persuaded to expand on this case.
• 55:46
  But honestly, you've got the meat and potatoes here already for the most part.
• 55:53
  I want the vegetables.
• 55:55
  Super cop ain't a vegetable.
• 55:58
  Super cop is not nutritious or delicious.
• 56:02
  Additionally, it was requested that any surviving officials, as well as the families of those deceased, be asked to return the Icelandic metals granted to them as a result of the now overturned convictions.
• 56:18
  So people that were involved with the case on the law enforcement side of things.
• 56:26
  They got metals.
• 56:27
  Apparently.
• 56:29
  For what?
• 56:32
  Couldn't tell you.
• 56:34
  Oh my God.
• 56:35
  The federal government refused this request on the grounds that the implicated party from the BKA had been investigating as a private individual.
• 56:45
  And we may have to expand on this for the Patreon because there is one particular story from his introduction to Erla in particular.
• 56:58
  That I think will color your perception of the super cop.
• 57:07
  Oh no.
• 57:08
  I feel like I know what that's about.
• 57:11
  Mm-hmm.
• 57:12
  Probably.
• 57:14
  This last part is just going to be very nearly verbatim what I read from source material because I already translated it.
• 57:23
  People come.
• 57:24
  Come.
• 57:27
  The mouth is so dry.
• 57:29
  In October 2019, the attorney general of Iceland opened an investigation into the disappearance of Guðmundur and Geirfinnur focusing on witness testimonies made in 2015 and 2016.
• 57:46
  In January 2020, Prime Minister Katrín Jakobsdóttir.
• 57:53
  Oh, Jacobs daughter.
• 57:56
  Wow.
• 57:58
  The court revealed that the Icelandic government would provide compensation totaling 815 million Icelandic króna.
• 58:08
  Approximately 6 million euros to those acquitted in the case or their families.
• 58:14
  That's good thing, right?
• 58:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 58:17
  Okay.
• 58:18
  The good or thing is about to happen.
• 58:20
  In December 2022, Erla was additionally granted approximately 210,000 euros in damages due to her spending 8 months in solitary confinement with the Icelandic government for fuck's sake.
• 58:38
  Finally issuing a formal apology to her in 2020.
• 58:43
  2022.
• 58:44
  When did this when did this originally happen?
• 58:48
  In the 70s.
• 58:50
  That's what I thought.
• 58:51
  That's like 1974, 1975 and parts of like 1976.
• 58:58
  And just two years ago.
• 59:00
  Mm-hmm.
• 59:01
  Oh my god.
• 59:03
  And while that about settles things legally as neatly as one could expect, I thought I might share a bit about where some of these people ended up.
• 59:14
  Saevar would spend many of his remaining years trying to overturn his conviction.
• 59:21
  He was unhoused for a period while living in Copenhagen before his death in 2011 at the age of 56.
• 59:30
  So he never saw their names cleared.
• 59:34
  No. He battled substance abuse disorder and died thinking that he would always be known as murderer.
• 59:47
  Wow.
• 59:48
  So he wasn't in prison still for a murder?
• 59:52
  Nope.
• 59:53
  Because they were eventually released.
• 59:56
  Okay.
• 59:57
  Just things weren't like made right.
• 59:59
  Okay.
• 1:00:00
  Wow.
• 1:00:01
  All that's so sad.
• 1:00:02
  Yeah, because the committee overturned their conviction, but they weren't actually being fully cleared.
• 1:00:13
  It's very confusing.
• 1:00:14
  Okay.
• 1:00:15
  Yeah.
• 1:00:16
  Erla Bolladottir has remained in Iceland with her daughter and has since taken on teaching the Icelandic language to immigrants.
• 1:00:28
  Oh.
• 1:00:30
  Kristjan Vidar Vidarsson would go on to work in a variety of manual labor positions, marry and have two children.
• 1:00:40
  Reportedly, he now lives alone in Reykjavik, really speaking about his experience or the details of the case.
• 1:00:49
  Tryggvi Runar Leifsson made a go of a career as a decorator while raising his three children, one of whom sadly died in 2002.
• 1:01:01
  A handful of years later in 2009, Tryggvi also passed away at age 59 from cancer.
• 1:01:10
  Both Albert Klahn Skaftason & Gudjon Skarphedinsson, last name, redacted, went on to live seemingly normal lives when compared to some others in the group.
• 1:01:26
  Albert would settle into a comfortable, stable family life.
• 1:01:31
  His life's work has been working with disadvantaged children. He has never spoken publicly about the case since his release.
• 1:01:42
  Gudjon Skarphedinsson moved to Denmark where he would marry and start a family.
• 1:01:47
  Before returning to Iceland, he would train as a minister, eventually retiring according to a 2014 article.
• 1:01:56
  Wow.
• 1:01:57
  How a minister, after all of that.
• 1:02:01
  What's really regrettable about this case is a lot of things, but how little the justice system, the media and the public at large focused on the victims.
• 1:02:16
  Because what happened to all of the suspects really was reprehensible, but at the end of the day there are people missing people, presumed dead, possibly murdered that are really just lost in the shuffle, a great deal.
• 1:02:33
  Taking into account even just the days they served in solitary confinement, essentially being tortured by their own government.
• 1:02:42
  Tryggvi, 627.
• 1:02:46
  Sævar, also over 600.
• 1:02:50
  Kristján, over 500.
• 1:02:56
  Erla, over 200.
• 1:02:59
  Albert, 87.
• 1:03:03
  Guðjón, over 400.
• 1:03:07
  Those are all days lost in the investigation, in the infamous disappearances of Guðmundur and Geirfinnur.
• 1:03:19
  And those were days like pretty much right after, like the most important days.
• 1:03:27
  Yeah, I mean, after when you get up to 600 days, you're really letting the, it gets so much harder to solve the case the more time that passes.
• 1:03:41
  Yeah, it's insane.
• 1:03:44
  As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.
• 1:03:52
  So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.
• 1:03:55
  Let's show them some love you can find their info in our show notes.
• 1:04:00
  This is That's So Fucked Up, a podcast about cult, murder and other fucked up stuff, like really, really fucked up stuff.
• 1:04:10
  He tore out her heart, tied it to a rope and hung it on the wall.
• 1:04:15
  Fucking sharks, eight mark, under the dinghy.
• 1:04:20
  After his dad dies, he fucking marries all his dad's wives.
• 1:04:25
  Yeah, he like marries all his stepmoms.
• 1:04:29
  I'm your host, Ashley Love Richards.
• 1:04:32
  Find That So Fucked Up, anywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:04:35
  That's fucked up.
• 1:04:37
  You guys, we're back.
• 1:04:39
  And don't worry, we did get more wine.
• 1:04:42
  Well, of course.
• 1:04:46
  Okay, so I need you to do a little shuffle.
• 1:04:50
  Are you sure?
• 1:04:52
  Yeah, sure.
• 1:04:53
  You want my energy?
• 1:04:54
  Listen, don't let past readings.
• 1:04:58
  Should we?
• 1:05:00
  I mean, I'm sure people have noticed we're wearing different clothes in the video.
• 1:05:05
  We're doing next day, Tara, and we have meanwhile had Tara readings ourselves.
• 1:05:12
  So that was kind of fun.
• 1:05:14
  It was good.
• 1:05:15
  There's no bad readings.
• 1:05:17
  That's right.
• 1:05:18
  The universe only tells you the truth of what you already know.
• 1:05:22
  Yeah, although I will say my reading was exceptionally positive.
• 1:05:26
  So hers was great.
• 1:05:28
  It was a tough act to follow.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:32
  We both got the strength card in our reading, which was interesting.
• 1:05:35
  We did.
• 1:05:36
  And in the same position and placement.
• 1:05:40
  Okay.
• 1:05:41
  It's spooky, spooky, spooky.
• 1:05:44
  Can you tell at all I think you can?
• 1:05:46
  I think I just thought it was flash.
• 1:05:48
  Yeah, it's so pretty.
• 1:05:50
  So I went with this deck because I felt like the blue, it spoke to me for Iceland.
• 1:05:58
  I don't know.
• 1:05:59
  That's what that's.
• 1:06:00
  Yeah, I agree.
• 1:06:01
  That's what I did.
• 1:06:02
  I was secret to tell you guys after this.
• 1:06:05
  Okay.
• 1:06:06
  Oh, that's so funny.
• 1:06:08
  This is a card that I got last night, but it was upright.
• 1:06:12
  Okay.
• 1:06:13
  So we have the three of cups in reverse.
• 1:06:17
  Oh, that's interesting.
• 1:06:20
  Yeah.
• 1:06:22
  My tarot book is actually still in my suitcase.
• 1:06:26
  Oh, it's in the closet.
• 1:06:28
  But this is the territorial deck.
• 1:06:30
  So we get to practice a little bit of what we experienced for ourselves last night.
• 1:06:37
  Kind of into it.
• 1:06:39
  I think.
• 1:06:40
  Okay.
• 1:06:41
  So in the reverse, our keywords are over indulgence, isolation, gossip and an affair.
• 1:06:49
  Okay.
• 1:06:50
  Isolation, gossip.
• 1:06:52
  Yeah.
• 1:06:53
  And one of the things that we didn't really talk about a ton was there was definitely some,
• 1:07:00
  there's some chatter about infidelity in Sivar and Eritle's relationship.
• 1:07:08
  Interesting.
• 1:07:09
  So that's interesting.
• 1:07:10
  And over indulgence, there's a lot that in relation to indulging in certain beverages,
• 1:07:19
  alcohol, alcohol, y'all, you're hitting your mic.
• 1:07:23
  I am with your cord.
• 1:07:24
  Oh, boy.
• 1:07:25
  God, I'm sorry.
• 1:07:26
  I'm not very.
• 1:07:27
  You're right.
• 1:07:28
  Interesting.
• 1:07:29
  And this definitely, this tracks for me.
• 1:07:31
  Yeah.
• 1:07:32
  So there's other indicators that are on these cards that you can kind of, what can I say something
• 1:07:38
  before I forget it?
• 1:07:39
  Yeah.
• 1:07:40
  So the old about the over indulgence weren't they, what's that called, like stealing money and
• 1:07:46
  bezzling?
• 1:07:47
  Yeah.
• 1:07:48
  That's a good point.
• 1:07:49
  It's like greediness.
• 1:07:50
  Yeah.
• 1:07:51
  It's over indulgence in kind of a different way, a different manner.
• 1:07:56
  Yeah.
• 1:07:57
  I think I forgot to like say something about that.
• 1:07:59
  Like I was all, when you started with that, I was like, oh, these are bad people.
• 1:08:04
  Like they, they're going to end up in jail, but they're like, they were not amazing.
• 1:08:11
  They make amazing choices, but they didn't deserve holy shit.
• 1:08:15
  Like any of that that they got.
• 1:08:17
  No.
• 1:08:18
  The punishment did not fit the crime.
• 1:08:20
  Did they even ever catch them for those crimes?
• 1:08:22
  No.
• 1:08:23
  I mean, they very clearly were not involved in.
• 1:08:26
  Either of those disappearances.
• 1:08:28
  Yeah.
• 1:08:29
  But they're like a bezzling stuff.
• 1:08:31
  Did they ever get in trouble for that?
• 1:08:32
  No, they got, I mean, they got them.
• 1:08:34
  I don't, that wasn't their focus in terms of like the prosecution, but yeah, they were
• 1:08:40
  caught.
• 1:08:41
  Like they did do something wrong.
• 1:08:43
  Why not get them for what they actually did wrong?
• 1:08:46
  Well, we heard.
• 1:08:47
  Anyway, okay, sorry.
• 1:08:48
  I wanted to get that out because I knew I would just forget.
• 1:08:50
  No, that mean, I mean, it makes total sense.
• 1:08:52
  I totally agree.
• 1:08:55
  So there's other little indicators for this card.
• 1:08:59
  It's associated with mercury and being that it's the three of cups.
• 1:09:04
  It's also associated with the number three and with 12, which is interesting because we're
• 1:09:11
  talking about essentially a group of six people.
• 1:09:14
  Oh, so I'm like three and 12 that totally, I don't know.
• 1:09:19
  I was going to ask like how many people?
• 1:09:22
  Yeah.
• 1:09:23
  I mean, there were certainly more people because of those six people, they just kept expanding.
• 1:09:29
  Yeah, that's really interesting.
• 1:09:32
  So the card definitely like has a group of people on it.
• 1:09:36
  So like that's the first thing that stood out.
• 1:09:38
  A group of people drinking.
• 1:09:39
  Yeah.
• 1:09:40
  And then when it was reversed, it was reversed, right?
• 1:09:46
  Yeah.
• 1:09:47
  So you just think of like this group of people should be like happy and partying, but
• 1:09:51
  they're like flipped on their head.
• 1:09:53
  They like, yeah, they're in the shit.
• 1:09:55
  I think this was honestly the perfect card for this being that it was reversed because in
• 1:10:01
  our traditional upright interpretation, keywords are friendship, community, support,
• 1:10:09
  happiness and celebration.
• 1:10:13
  And obviously none of those quite fit our case.
• 1:10:18
  But every single point in terms of the reverse interpretation, like you said, it just takes,
• 1:10:27
  it takes this card and it flips it on its head.
• 1:10:30
  Yeah.
• 1:10:31
  I have another very genius thing to say.
• 1:10:34
  Do it.
• 1:10:35
  Mercury rules communication, right?
• 1:10:38
  So the communication in this case was not good.
• 1:10:42
  No.
• 1:10:43
  All kinds of manipulated and tangled and wrong.
• 1:10:47
  Yeah.
• 1:10:48
  That's really interesting.
• 1:10:49
  Wow.
• 1:10:50
  You're welcome.
• 1:10:51
  I'm so.
• 1:10:52
  Thank you.
• 1:10:53
  Yeah.
• 1:10:54
  It's also associated with the water element, which makes sense because again, you know, we're
• 1:11:00
  talking about a card that's heavily associated with liquid water.
• 1:11:04
  Ice.
• 1:11:05
  Blue.
• 1:11:06
  But it's also associated with a particular astrological science.
• 1:11:14
  So it's called Pisces Scorpio and Cancer.
• 1:11:19
  Water science.
• 1:11:20
  Yeah.
• 1:11:21
  So I'm curious.
• 1:11:22
  I'm going to go and see if that matches any of their their science.
• 1:11:29
  Interesting.
• 1:11:30
  I want to.
• 1:11:31
  I wonder.
• 1:11:32
  I'm going to look into that.
• 1:11:35
  I'm curious.
• 1:11:36
  But when reversed, the three of cups can indicate indulgence in food or drink too much
• 1:11:43
  partying.
• 1:11:44
  Hmm.
• 1:11:45
  Perhaps you feel weary from too much interaction with other people and need some downtime or you've
• 1:11:51
  become disenchanted with your friends.
• 1:11:54
  Oh, like maybe they wrote you into a murder case.
• 1:11:59
  Gosh.
• 1:12:00
  They didn't need that much downtime though.
• 1:12:02
  No.
• 1:12:03
  In some cases, it shows a longing for friendship or sense of community.
• 1:12:08
  And Iver is like I said Iver, but it's like Sivar.
• 1:12:17
  He always felt like an outsider in his own country because he was only half Icelandic.
• 1:12:24
  Oh, that's right.
• 1:12:25
  And his name didn't follow the patronomic system.
• 1:12:29
  Yeah.
• 1:12:30
  In a reading about money, rewards from a group effort may be delayed or not as great as
• 1:12:35
  you'd hoped.
• 1:12:37
  Yeah.
• 1:12:38
  I'd say this card can also warn of overextending yourself financially or counting your chickens
• 1:12:46
  before they're hatched.
• 1:12:48
  Hmm.
• 1:12:49
  Fair warning.
• 1:12:51
  If the reading is about your job, the reversed three suggests your success comes in small
• 1:12:57
  ways rather than grand ones or a victory may seem hollow.
• 1:13:02
  Well, I would say they're a victory in the end of this case.
• 1:13:07
  In some respects, it does feel a little hollow.
• 1:13:09
  Yeah, it really did.
• 1:13:12
  It sucked.
• 1:13:14
  Perhaps you don't feel as happy with your job or the results of a project as you'd expected
• 1:13:19
  to be.
• 1:13:21
  Especially if you never saw the true end of it.
• 1:13:25
  Yep.
• 1:13:27
  In a reading about love, the three reversed shows you may feel left out, discouraged or lonely.
• 1:13:34
  Perhaps you've grown and your lover or loved ones haven't kept up.
• 1:13:40
  In some cases, this card can mean a primary partnership takes up all your time and you don't
• 1:13:46
  get to see your friends as much as you'd like.
• 1:13:49
  A partnership like an interrogation?
• 1:13:52
  Yeah, I wouldn't consider that a partnership.
• 1:13:55
  No.
• 1:13:56
  Only person that we get to see is like whoever was interrogating them.
• 1:14:00
  Yeah, that's so sad.
• 1:14:05
  That's so sad.
• 1:14:08
  Three of cups, if you'd asked me, I would have said no way.
• 1:14:12
  In the reversed.
• 1:14:13
  Yeah.
• 1:14:14
  You ready?
• 1:14:15
  Yeah.
• 1:14:16
  All right.
• 1:14:17
  Have a creepy ass day.
• 1:14:20
  See you next Tuesday.
• 1:14:23
  Don't get too chilly.
• 1:14:33
  And we do a tarot reading at the end of every episode.
• 1:14:40
  How long have you been with me?
• 1:14:41
  Why you spending so much time with me?
• 1:14:43
  Did you think that one was funny?
• 1:14:45
  I was like, oh my god, the office clip.
• 1:14:48
  That was funny.
• 1:14:49
  Okay, good.
• 1:14:50
  I felt bad.
• 1:14:51
  I was like, I don't know what you're doing.
• 1:14:53
  Oh, dude, make fun of me.
• 1:14:54
  I make fun of you all the time.
• 1:14:55
  I know we do.
• 1:14:57
  I like that.
• 1:14:58
  It's always a good nature.
• 1:14:59
  Yeah.
• 1:15:00
  I feel like that's the thing.
• 1:15:01
  But we also complement each other and bring each other up too.
• 1:15:04
  Yeah.
• 1:15:05
  Yeah.
• 1:15:06
  Like, you know, we keep it in check.
• 1:15:08
  We're good. www.pnwhauntsandhomicides.com