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Taylor Swift's Wedding Backlash w. Charlie Goldensohn · Brief Recess: A Legal Podcast with Michael Foote & Mélissa Malebranche

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foot, I'm Melissa Melburn.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about the Taylor Swift wedding.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: We're gonna talk.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I said it.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about how my husband's shirt ended
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: up on another man and not how you thought. We're
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: gonna talk about Melissa's husband's college shirt, and then we're
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: going to do a really deep dive interview with Charlie
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Goldenson about progressive politics and America right now, the New
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: York Races, everything, what's coming up in the mid terms.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: We're going to get deep into the politics. So buckle up, stupid.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Melissa was like, how's your dog? And I was telling
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: about the dog, and then she was like, she said,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: do I have any crumbs on me? She was eating
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: my croissant. I checked a Lissa's location. She's a beach vacation.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: It looks like she's on the beach. Good for her, good.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: For her ship.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: We all need a break every now and then. I
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: wore my I love that I wore. I know that
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: the number one sport right now in the world that
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: people are talking about is tennis, so I wore my
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: tennis sweater. Sefa tennis.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: What's her name?
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: No? I actually I am not watching tennis at all. I
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: just like the sweater.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Do you not watch tennis?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: If it's on at the gym, I'll be like.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, Serena backed out?
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Really, what happened?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Why did you get hurt?
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: She may have gotten hurt, I'm not sure, but I did.
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: And I don't follow tennis at all, but I did
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: notice that.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I asked my friend. I was like, should we go
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to the what's it called? The US Open? And when
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: it's in New York? Because I feel like it's a
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: New York thing.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Have you ever been?
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I've never been?
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Have you?
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's like a drinking social kind of
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was less about the sport and more
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: about the I went.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: I mean decades ago, okay, okay, and I was drinking.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Then should we go with this? Should we go this year?
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm gonna say no. It's that's a no
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: for me because I don't I don't know tennis.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I don't care.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It's also outside in August.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Right, I think I'm gonna be a way anyway.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Where in the world is Carmen San Diego?
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: You know, we do our beach a week at the Beach,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: which I love.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: You're doing your wedding at Madison Square Garden.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: All right, Can we talk about that for a second.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just trying to understand why out of all
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: the principal Mexico Garden is not even nice, Chopped, it's
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: not even nice. And I and I and I understand
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: that she's got more money than God and she could
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: have it turned into whatever it is that she wanted.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: But and you're happy about Midtown already.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: But Midtown is already not a place that I want
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: to be, but people commute through there, and she decided
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: to do it.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I'm like, one of the biggest holiday.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Weekends, Penn Station is underneath Madison Square Garden and they
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: close up all the streets around it.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: What the fun?
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Describe the town mid That's a good joke. Someone should
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: still that. Put that on Twitter or someone describe the
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: town mid I went to this town. Everyone knew you.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we're having writing chopped Bill, Like damn.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Don't I mean? And I understand she spent a shipload
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: of money.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: As a person who got married at the David Busters
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: in Times Square, he.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Did not get square.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: You know, I am convinced that the place where Angree
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: and I got married is owned and operated by the mafia.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And he's just like, no, the guy just liked us.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: No we didn't. I mean maybe he did, but that's not.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: This place.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Don't say that.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say the name. They only took.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Cash, and you know, he was like, I don't even
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: have a machine on the premises.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I was like, all right, like tam machine, like a
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: quick credit card.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: I just feel like and everything had to be done,
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: like they had their own limo, they had a baker,
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: they had to use a certain florist. And but this
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: is the part that really got me. They had their
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: own waist removal.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: That's the end of the segment.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: At the end of that, and then there were things,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: and there were things.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Don't be naive, you know, Andre, your tool to be
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: the knive.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: No, we're all a little long in the tooth to
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: be this knife.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I will say though, in New York everyone has a guy.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: They all have a guy for everything. Okay, like we
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: have like you have.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: A guy for a wedding. I mean whatever.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: But anyway, back to whatever her name is and what
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: his name is, I just think that when you have
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: access to resources and you could do whatever you want,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: why would you do the thing that is going to
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: inconvenience the most amount of people.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, whatever you want, whatever you want, sure, whatever, No, No, no,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: you're like no. I mean like, if it's someone's wedding,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: let them do what they want, you.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: Know, whatever, it's your wedding. Like you said, invite who
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: you wish, have it where you wish.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: But really, my train run on time.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: But no, And also she.
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: Did holiday weekend. I actually really Hoday weekend.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: We got we got the sports in town. Miss Fifa,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Miss FIFA, well, miss Fifa. She dock walked in, Miss Fifa.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: New York is a mess right now. The Pride Parade,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Miss Pride Parade just shut down. We just finished that.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: We're still sweeping up the streamers. We've still got a
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: little bit of glitter. Padam is still playing, like we've
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: New York has been through a lot, she's been through
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: This we didn't need this.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: We just had the primaries.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: We did really well.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Actually we did, yeah, we did we did so Yeah,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: We've just we've just been through it. I keep waiting
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: for the chill. New York summer to happen.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's coming.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's coming.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's core, not on my watch, not
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: with me out in these streets. I still think we're
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: all a little bit feral after the winter we had.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Like people are doing things at the club I've never
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: seen before, like like jumping off tables, landed and splits
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: like people are people are going wicked and wild, and
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you shouldn't be doing that. You have hYP dysplasia,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: It's like the girls from the DCC.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, Thunder. People are doing things that you know, we
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: didn't Maybe we shouldn't be doing.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not outside, so I don't know.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: You're not outside. No, no, what'd you do? For the
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: fourth went to the beach. Okay, it was nice because
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: there's about two hundred degrees outside, So I just sat
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: under an umbrella suffering. How was Bred also under the umbrella,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: still managed to get scorched even though he wasn't even
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: in the sun. No matter what happens to Brad, it
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: will always be my fault, right, Yes, I'm blame for
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: the sunburn because I didn't put the sun block on correctly. Sure, sure?
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Is that true?
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Though?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, one time there was no, I'm serious, there was
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: one time we were we were joking around of the
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: beach and I just drew a little design in the
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: sunblock about sun block. It absorbs like that. Yeah, So
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: even if you fully apply right after, which I did,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: if you.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Still had a still get up, what was the design?
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: And for for legal reasons, I can't say, you know what,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: let's get into a sidebar and talk about something else
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: that's not actually no, no, no no, because you did
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: it to yourself. And now I'm gonna have to have
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: my own, my second husband. I'm gonna have to get
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: married on Madison.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: I just feel I just feel like I feel I
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: would like the record to reflect that I am always
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: team bred.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: What did you do with his shirt?
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: TikTok?
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Right now?
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Anyway?
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: So, okay, Brad has this thing where he likes to
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: keep clothing that doesn't fit him anymore that he never wears,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: and so slowly and it's usually hideous, so slowly.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: But according to you, but continue.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, yes, And
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: so what a tangled web we weave when first we
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: practice to deceive. I slowly pilfer shirts, little object things
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: he just doesn't wear. Ever do that, and I slip
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: it into the good wild. Yeah, because sometimes people need
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: help and they don't even know it. And they don't
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: even know it. I mean the New Yorker ethesis. You can,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: we can maybe all ride in, but it's no harm,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: no foul, and it's going to a good cause. The
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: way that his college T shirt from his theater troope
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: ended up on an out unhoused man in front of
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: our apartment building was so fast, neck cracking speed. I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: donated it and it was I swear in minutes this
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: man was wearing it.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Did you put it?
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: I put it in the bin. I thought these things
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: get shipped to welfares around the country.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't think he was wishing in the bin.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: He must have gone fishing.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: All Maybe it was. It was like Michael, I'm saying,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: You don't think people go fishing in the bin.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: You're right, Oh my god, you're so right. Why didn't
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I assumed I'm thinking that there's some sort of mail
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: fraud happening.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: It's so right. You're run under present, correct I can't
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: believe that.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: And this is why when people are like Michael and Melissa,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: like we share a brain in a way that is
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: actually like keeping both of us alive.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: We're like goldfish basically.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: So yeah, anyway, I'm in a lot of trouble because
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I donated the shirt that and now there is someone
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: in my nameorhood who's wearing it. And it says the theater, troupe,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the production, and the year. So I can't even deny
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: it and say, oh, like, it's just your college sweatshirt.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: It's literally it might as well have Brad's signature on
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: it notorized because it's so obviously me.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I definitely have you learned anything?
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: No, and I never will. And that's ten toes down,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: ten toes, ten fingers down. What did I say? I'm
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: a contortionist? Ten toes and ten fingers down.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: Andre has you donate a lot all the time, all
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: the time.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: And I also have slowly gotten rid of things.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, right, yeah, but.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: One thing I can't because he'll know that it's gone.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: Andre has his college sweatshirt. Now, my husband is a
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: man of a certain age.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Unless we returned for a degree, we haven't been in
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: college in a little while.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, I'm gonna take a picture of it and
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: show it to you.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: It's got tatters. Yes, it's in tatters.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Ron Weasley's mom.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: It's in absolute tatters.
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: And every time I say to him, you know, so,
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: I thought, I'm like, all right, I'll get him a
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: new one, right when that fits one that's nice.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: They don't make him like that anymore.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: And I said, so we can get rid of the
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: old one.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Does it not fit him or it's just falling apart, No, it.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Doesn't fit him.
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: It's like it's like his belly is exposed, like it's
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: like he looks like.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Like it's just like only it's ripped.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I will say, oh my god, there's I went to
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Copenhagen a couple of years ago and there's a store there.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Copenhagen's known for its fashion. There's a store there specifically
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: dedicated to American college sweatshirts. Oh wow, because they think
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: it's like very funny that we all wear college sweatshirts.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: So they think it's like funny, Well, the only ones
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: who do that tongue in cheek like fashion. So you'll
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: see a girl walking around like a Scandinavian woman wearing
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: like a University of Wisconsin sweatshirt that she bought at
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the college sweatshirt store in Denmark. Interesting, and they have
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: all the colleges.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Do you have a college sweatshirt?
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I have a Tillian Law T shirt. It's too smallow me.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Well, why haven't you gotten Wow? You're getting rid of Wow?
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Do you know what he just did?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: It's okay, it's too small to me, but I still
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: wear it. It's a little it's a little tight, but
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: it's it's still wearable. This brad never wore it. I
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: don't even think he knew.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: We had it.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but when he saw the man wearing his T shirt,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: he was.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Just like, hey, and you know what it fit that guy?
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: That's your mic drop.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: So what's going on in the home?
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Going on in the home? You're getting rid of?
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: What's going on in the home? I have I have
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: a welfare pile. I have a good well pile.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, so do I have a giant box?
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Anyway, We've got a great episode today.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I'm excited.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: We've got Charlie goldensone here. You know him from Shaye
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Chartie Shay Chuck, Everyone's favorite Instagram progressive liberal influencer.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Account, and he's here to talk to us, and.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: He's here to talk to us. I want to talk
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: to him about what happened in the recent elections and
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: we've got because we had like a progressive fasinating.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: And I wonder, what, if anything it means for the midterms,
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: What if anything, does it mean for the rest of
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: the country.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Or what if He's like nothing. We roll the segment,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and the segment he said, you.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Know what, nothing, get the clapp it will be like, yeah,
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: you've heard it here first, folks, nothing's going to happen.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: Everything's burning. Everything is burning, and nothing shall remain.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: It's all right, let's take a break. Well, bright back,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Brief Recess. This is under oath. We
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: are here with our incredible guest, Charlie golden Son. And
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Charlie describes himself as a dude who works on political
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: stuff and was previously a White House staffer and communication
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: strategist who worked on president campaigns including the Biden administration.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: You can find him online at Shay Chuck. Welcome, Charlie, thank.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: You for having me. This is, like I said, very
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: legit and seriously honored to be in here. Yeah, very validating.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, well, I mean you're all over my feed.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I feel like we have similar sort of things that
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: we do on the internet. We talk about very similar subjects.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I was like, we got to get Charlie on the show,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: and Melissa was so excited too. So it's great to
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: have you. I mean a lot is happening right now.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: We're just coming off the heels of an election in
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: New York. We are going into the mid terms. I
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: thought we could just like chat about that generally, right,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I mean we and do you have so many progressive
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: ideals right as we are staring down the midterm elections,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: as we are looking towards the future of what the
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Democratic Party looks like, we are seeing changes in elections
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: like New York's may or mayor mom, Donnie uh, and
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the things that are happening in our own city you're
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: in New Yorker, and how those things are kind of
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: impacting national elections. Yeah, right, totally. What's going on, Like,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: there's so much unpack I feel like so much. If
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: we want to start with like the recent elections in
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: New York.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: Sure. One of the things I just said is, yeah,
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: we're new Yorkers here, and like, I think you can
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: look at what has happened in New York directionally in
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: both directions, which is, on one hand, we can view
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: this as the beginning of a movement or signs of
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: greater things to come nationally. And you know, there's a
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: lot of people in the center on the right who
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: will say that what has happened in New York is
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: not possible anywhere else. Yeah, I think that's personally, I
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: think that's bullshit, right, I don't think there's any ability
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: to that, And we can talk about that. But then
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: on the other side of that, we can also talk
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: about the reasoning for what has happened in New York
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: is also downstream from what's happening nationally. Yes, right, So
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: many national issues actually played a extremely import in part
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: in these local elections. And of course this isn't to
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: minimize local policy and local issues, but the reality is
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: even at the state Assembly level, even at the state
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Senate level, even in these congressional races, APEC funding was
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: a significant part of this. Affordable housing was a significant
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: part of this ice and the attacks on our immigrant
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: neighbors was a significant part of this. So it goes
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: both directions, and it's it was a really beautiful, exciting
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: day moment that we're in. It's hard for me to
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: think of you know, I'm not an expert on history,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: but it's.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Hard for me.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: I'd love to talk to a political historian who could say,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: here's another time in US history where there was this
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: kind of massive political electoral change happening in such a
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: leftwards direction like this.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: What do you think is the reason why that is?
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Like was it that people just sort of who loved
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: Madamie and so they were they were going to vote
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: for who he suggested? Or do you think there's a
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: general mood change?
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: What do you think is the research?
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: I think there's a thousand things. You know. First, I'll
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: say it is like, I'm not a spokesperson for DSAY.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: I don't work for DSA, So I don't want people
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: listening to think I'm like speaking on behalf of DSA.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm just a voter and a strategist and
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: a person who talks and consumes. But you know, yes,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Zoron's involvement in these races I think was pivotal and
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: not just what ended up happening because of that. But
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: the political weight he was willing to throw around and
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: the risks he was willing to take showed how important
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: these races were. But it wasn't just him, right like Zoron, Yes,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: he's the figurehead, and he is this incredible, once in
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: a lifetime political figure, But New York DSA is an
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: insanely powerful organization now, and it wasn't just Zoron that
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: was engaging in these races. DSA was building this incredible
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: foundation of organizing throughout and that to me is you know,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: one of the biggest strategically like answers to what just happened. Yes,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: of course Zoron came in and helped, but like the
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: you know, hundreds of thousands of calls, hundreds of thousands
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: of doors knocked, and also really strategically choosing where they
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: wanted to fight, Right, DSA and Zoron were not endorsing
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: or activating in every race. They were very select right.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: We sat down with Laura Done a few weeks ago
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: and she let us know in New York twelve, Zoron
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: did not endorset candidate for that race, and you know,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about how that was actually
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: probably strategic not doing that I think a lot of
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the community in the twelfth district is primarily Jewish and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: is not supportive of Zoron. And I note that she,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you know, Laura, I mean, there's are quotes from Laura.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: This is what she was sort of talking about. But yeah,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I mean his endorsement or lack of an endorsement, right
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: oftentimes signals to voters, right.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, but it's all it's not, you know, there
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: was of course, there's Newer twelve, which for folks listening
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: is like Upper west Side, Upper east Side, It's where
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Jerry Nadler was the congressman. Now Michael Ashner just won.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: It was the Alex Borrez, Michael Lashner, Jack Schlossberg, George Conway,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: like that kind of crazy, but.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Like very splashy, very slash.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Yet very The spectrum of politics that was in that
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: race was very narrow, right, that everybody was kind of
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: right here, and it makes sense for the electorate there.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: But then you look at a race like Richie Torres's district, right,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: which is there was an absolute leftist challenging Richie Torres.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: DSA did not engage in that race. Zorn did not
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: engage in that race, and that's not because I liked.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: It's not because I think that like Zoron didn't want
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: to beat Hikeem Jeffries or sorry or Richard Richie Torrez,
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Excuse me, It's because they have to choose their battles, right.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: DSA has x amount of resources, Zorn has to focus
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: time and his energies and says its political operation and
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: so yes, where they don't endorse and where they don't
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: engage does signal. But I also think it's not just saying, oh,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: we don't care about this. It's like we're going to
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: be super strategic with where to use our weight and
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: look at what we just did. And now Richie Torres,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Hakim Jeffreys, Chuck Schumer most likely like they're probably next.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: We were talking about a historian who might sort of
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: tell us about what was or what has or hasn't
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: changed in an election or in a voting demographic. If
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: there has ever been a time like this when people
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: are so keyed into what's happening in politics and why
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: that is right, I think like we can't not be
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: engaged right now. It's literally impossible to look away. It's
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: come to a point where in America just to wake
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: up and exist. Is almost like activism sometimes or just
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: like we are also aware at every juncture, right every opportunity,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: like uh, you almost have to have an opinion about
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Taylor's soft sweating. You have to have like you have
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to like weigh in. You have to be engaged politically
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: to sort of understand what's going on with the horses
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: in Central Park, like they're like you. Just you are
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: acutely aware of polarized politics everywhere you turn, and so
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: to enter a voting booth, it's almost like we are
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: an even more informed electorate right now.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: That's actually you know what, I actually don't agree with you.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: You think we're stupid.
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: I think I think that there are a lot of
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: people who are sort of digging in and saying, I
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: don't do politics. It's too much, do you know what
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: I mean? I think we don't. Most of the people
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: that I know don't. But I have got a handful
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: of people in my family who.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Are like, yeah, I think it's not for me. It's
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: not for me.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: It's not for me more now than before.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, not more now. I think less now, But
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: I still think too many. Sure, there are too many
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: people who just don't want to engage who are either
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: afraid or uninformed about what's going on, and they are
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: choosing to sort of sit it out totally.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's quite literally. I don't know what
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: was your catalyst and like starting to you know, but
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: for me, there was a few, but one of them
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: was exactly that, which is like, while I don't think
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: identity is should or is everything in politics, there's also
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: times where it is important and like I'm self aware
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: of myself, Like I'm a fucking white guy with a
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: mustache and a deep voice, and I live in Lower
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Manhattan and I like sports. I like to drink beer.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: I played college sports, Like I know my people, I
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: know who my friends are, I know who listens to me.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: And what got me to the edge, frankly, was like
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: I'm like, like you guys, like I am on one
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: end of this BAC. I am two in the weeds
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: on the ship. I always have been. But I just
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: am at the point and I got to the point
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: where I was like, you know, and I talk about
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: this a lot, where it's like when you're dealing with fascism,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: which is how I view it's it is a binary
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: option at that point like, you either are engaging with
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: it and pushing back on it or you are okay
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: with it, right. And that's not to demonize the people
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: who maybe are too busy or are impoverished and don't
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: have time and have to take care of their kids
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: and work ten jobs. But when it comes to my demographic,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: when it comes to the guys that I'm trying to
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: talk to, what I'm trying to ring the arm bells
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: is to say, hey, fellas, you actually don't have the
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: fucking option to be silent right now, and here's why
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: you want to be signed. Let me tell you why
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: that makes you an asshole. Let me tell you why
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: that makes you maybe a bad person situation. Let me try.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Let me try to be the one that push you
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: back into the fight because I agree with you, but
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I guess you know, a lot of the work is
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: trying to drag those people back, right, and not just
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: back to our end politically, but also just into being
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: politically aware, back to engagement.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: You know, when you so you say you're trying to
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: talk to your people.
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: Right, so somewhat yeah, But when you do that, so first,
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: what is your hope?
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: What do you hope happens and what actually is happening.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Sure, what is actually happening hard to measure, but I
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: have a couple of anecdotes so like so like you
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: gave my bio a little bit like a quick part
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: of that as well was I also came in on
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: the back end of the Kamala Harris campaign in twenty
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: twenty four as an advisor for paid media, and what
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: that basically meant was being a producer executive producer on
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: like the big premium ads that were running on big
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: cable news CNN, ESPN, running during football games. And that
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: was also in parallel with all these discussions we are
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: continuing to have about like the manosphere and the alpha
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: bros and males and we need a Joe Rogan on
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: the left and blah blah blah blah blah, and like, well,
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: I think that those convers stations are valid and necessary.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: They're also like very surface level to me. It's like, okay,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: let's get a little deeper. I also think those conversations
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: are very like prone to rumor. Like these things like
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: conversations like that take on a life of their own
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: and then weight gets ascribed to it that is not
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: necessarily valid people are like, oh, well we do need that,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: and then it's like, oh well I heard someone say
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: we needed that, so therefore we need that, and just
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: snowballs totally. I mean, I think yes, but I do
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: think that when it comes to like like democrats are
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: losing men like that is an objective reality. And yes,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: you can get into the specific so those demos, but
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: like men generally, like across race, ethnicity, class, it's happening
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: across the board. And this is to answer your question,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: like what is that? What am I trying to do,
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: which is like I'm trying to get those guys right,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Like I'm just trying to talk to how I talk
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: to my friends at the bar is I'm just trying
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: to simpler And it's not talking down, it's not making
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: it dumb. It's just trying to talk about this stuff
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: in a in the way I would to my friends.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: And so that's the goal is can I get more
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: people into the fold simply buy the medium and the
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: format and the ways of which I communicate and look
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: that maybe some people will listen who otherwise want. In
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: terms of the actual impact, hard to say. I've had
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: a couple of moments though, of being like, okay, this
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: is real. One is I won't name his name, like
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: one of like the biggest manosphere guys DM me after
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: I did a video about him that went viral and
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: was like, hey man, I think I fucked up, Like
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: can we talk about this a little bit? Yes. That
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: was one. Another was I did a video like calling
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: out Joe Rogan and THEO Vaughn and Andrew Schultz after
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: I remember Liam, he was like the five year old
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: child outside of the he got detained with them and
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: ran back exactly. I did a video where I was
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: like thanked Joe Rogan and Theovonne for you know, keeping
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: us safe from these criminals like Liam, and that video
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: went crazy And then I got a call from a
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: friend who said, you know that you're you're the number
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: one trending topic on the Joe Rogan subreddit. Oh my god,
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: and that I didn't, you know, I don't listen to
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Joe Rogan. I don't check. But then I checked and
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: it was it was a number one try anything for
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: like weeks and weeks and weeks, and the overall feedback
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: and commentary it was really positive. So my feeling there
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: is like okay, like it's hard to We all know
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: social like it's hard to really know who you're reaching.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: But that told me like, okay, some of the stuff
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: is getting in front.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Of it, right, Well that's I mean, so rarely in
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: life do we literally get feedback on the page that
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: says what you did had impact, especially in like politics
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: especially and what we sort of do on the internet.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: But the people who like Joe Rogan, supported Trump in
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: the election and have suddenly gone silent on the subject,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: who are suspiciously have amnesia. Everyone seems to have fallen
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: in hit their head. Yeah, no one's standing ten toes
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: down anymore. You did this right, people like that got
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: us to this place, right, You don't get to walk
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: away now that where a year and a half in
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: and everyone's getting too poor. Did no like you stood
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: up for him? So many influencers accepted MAGA money and
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: posted their little video and did their thing. And now
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden they want to be uh trad
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: wifs and do their homemade sour dough and know now
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: they're not talking about politics. You got us into this mess. Yes,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: you don't get to walk away now, because none of
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: us can walk away.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: We're good in this room, all right, like like we're
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: gonna be fine.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: Like I think about Liam, I'm like, there are millions
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: of families and children and women and trans youth and immigrants,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: et cetera, black, brown, whatever, who like they don't have
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: the option to just be like sorry, I'm good. Like
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: your stupid fucking decisions and your lack of engagement, your
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: lack of research objectively now have downstream impacts that have
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: ruined lives, that have hurt human bodies. Yes, and for
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: you not to acknowledge that is not good enough for me.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Like I don't care. Now if you're starting to critique
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Trump a little bit, like you need to acknowledge your
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: responsibility in that as well.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: That's why I mean people always talk about like, oh,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: if this company, we're a family. Families don't hold each
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: other accountable, Right, Companies need to have accountability, And the
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: same thing has to happen for politics. I don't know.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I look at the election results of this most recent election, right,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: and I think about how much and not even just
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: in New York, right, I mean this just happened in Colorado. Right.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: We just had an ultra progressive candidate knock out a
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: legacy fifteen year congress person, so excited for it, but
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: then it's also happening at the same time. Today we're
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: recording the grand Platiner. Yes, news just broke like an
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: hour ago before we hit record on this, so maybe
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: we have CJ read us a couple lines about that headline,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: so we're all on the same page and up to speed. Yeah,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: NBC is reporting that grand Platner considering his best best
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: path forward and main Senate race after nine sexual assault claims.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I'm just going to be very pessimistic here.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: I think this is so bad for everyone. Like it's bad,
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: of course, it's bad for the survivors, horrendous. Yeah, of
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: course it's bad for the campaign and the volunteers behind them,
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: But like, this is so bad for the leftist movement generally.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Grand Platner, unfortunately, fortunately or unfortunately, was another one of
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: these figureheads right, like of the kind of like insurgent
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: left getting rid of the established establishments. Yeah, showing that
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: democratic socialism or progressivism or whatever terminology we want to
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: use for that specific worldview can exist in people who
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: do not look traditionally progressive and leftists, and who are
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: working class and rural, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: And my fear here is that, you know, one of
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: the things that this does right away, the first thought
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: I had was the other Democratic candidate that that Platinum
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: was running against in the primary, Janet Mills. She was
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: the selected candidate by Chuck Schumer right quite literally the
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: super pass put a ton of money behind her. It
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: was because of him, reportedly that she ran. And what
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: I hate now is, like, again beyond that the actual
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: horrendous allegations here is like this is now an opportunity
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: for every centrist conservative liberal to say, see, you lazy
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: idiots like you don't know how this works. We know
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: how this works, and they're going to use that to
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: try to go after every lefty candidate right now, from
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: the New York locals to Abdullah s a Ed and
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: Michigan to whatever. So just on like a general.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Note, I know, it's like the exception can't prove the rule,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: right like, this can't be the situation that everyone uses
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: to say, oh well, we can't have progressive ideals right
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: like so much condemning Graham and these allegations and support
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: for the victim. I mean, we were just talking on
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: the other day, me and Melissa about how hard it
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: must be for women to come forward against men, how
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: hard it must be to think like this might be
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: one of the only things people say, this might become
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: my story. Hard stop. We've seen it time and time
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: again women come forward against a man. Not only is
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: there no accountability, but it also becomes her entire story.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: That becomes her.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: First name, last name, victim of. Do you know what
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, survivor of? And that's yeah.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just wild to think about it. And then
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: it literally just happens.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's exactly what you said. It's not.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: Obviously it is devastating for the victims, the survivors, but
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: it's it's now painting every liberal candidate, every liberal with
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: the same brush.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: And what I think is really interesting.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: About that, though, is that the president of the United States,
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: it is a known sex offender.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Those are those are just the facts.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: And in spite of that, he not only became president
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: once took a break, came back and as president again.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I just feel like as a Democratic party, I want
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: to hold us to a higher standard, so much to ask.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: For, I mean, but doesn't it doesn't It feel.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, I've you know, obviously I've got a look
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: a chat group with my friends and we and all
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: the women, most of them black, and around my age,
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: and it and there's this feeling of like every time
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: a story comes out, and the feeling is like is
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: every man.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: A piece of shit? Do you know what I'm saying?
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: Because because it's happening all the time, right, And it's
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: it's not just political people.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: It's it's it's you know, athletes and and people that.
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: At one point or another were important to the to
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: the community. Bill Cosby for example, Right, I grew up
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: in you know, born in the seventies watching The Cosby Show,
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: and that show really had a very at the time,
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: a very positive impact on Black people in general. It's
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: like the first time that we had seen a show
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: where it was two you know, a two parent household.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: They were obviously affluent, they were educated, and and to
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: find out later that he was this deviant criminal has
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: had a negative impact. And it makes you wonder like, well, who,
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: like who can we count on? Who can we count
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: on you? Because you want somebody to come in and
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: we want the country to change, to move forward in
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: a positive way, and this stuff keeps happening.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's repeating what you said a little,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: but it's like I think that's one of the reasons
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: that the Platiner thing is so shocking is maybe not
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: the right word, but like awful and sad and just
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: like fuck.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: It's upsetting on every level because you're like upset for
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: the victim.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: But he was he was set up to be that,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Like he was. He was set up to be the
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: exact answer to that, which is no, look at this
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: healthy version of masculinity and manhood and look look what
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: a good man can be and what they can stand
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: for and what they can say that to me is
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: you know, and like let's make it about me. Like
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: that's that is like a core part of what I'm
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: trying to do with my stuff too.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: This.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: You know, I was going to say, you do that
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: with your videos. You're always speaking to like toxic masculinity, right,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: and that sort of debunking.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: That in like a non direct way.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know, like your existence I think is well
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: you just existing on the Internet. I think it's like
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: an antidote to some of that, right, I mean, just
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: by virtue of us sitting down in conversation, right can
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: be not everyone would enter dialogue on that. So I
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: just feel like, yeah, no, you're right, like these are
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: these are things where Graham was set up to be
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: this answer to a toxic masculine candidate and to represent
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: those progressive ideals and.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Find out that he's not.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's upsetting. It's upsetting for the victim. It's also like,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I never trust any one man with so
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: there's no way my future for this country, my vision
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: for America is going to be with some white dude
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: from me. So I'm like, sorry, Like that wasn't ever
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: my how I saw it going, and so I never
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: put too much value into that. But I do think
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: that there are so many extraordinary progressives that I have won.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: And oh can I bring it back to New York?
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: Which can I get it? Like we're in New York.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: It's yes, liberal bastion, and it's the most diversity in
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: the country. Like I understand that, and yet what we
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: were just shown through Dear Lisa, brad Lander, brad Lander,
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: Claire Valdez. But mainly like de Lisa and Claire Valdez,
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: in my mind is like it doesn't have to be
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: a fucking white guy, like we don't have to like yes,
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: like the whole idea of like, well a woman can't
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: win here, and like I just don't believe that, And
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: that's not me trying to like do that. It gets genuine.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: It's like they just fucking dominated. Lisa just beat the
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: chairman of the Hispanic caucuses by four points, an incumbent.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: That is insane, Like they're not just getting by, like
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: they are destroying these candidates. And so to me, again
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: just proves that like and this isn't even meant to
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: like shitt on ground planet, It's just meant to be,
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: like we can we can continue to expand the lens
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: and expand the after the ideal candidates, right, Like when
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: people have my own personal politics, when people say like, oh,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: well AOC would be a great presidential candidate, but nobody
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: will vote for a woman of color, I call bullshit.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: I'm like, to me, it's like she's the same answer
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: as Bernie Sanders in the sense of like, once you
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: get her in front of somebody, right, they really like her,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: but the problem is you got to get it in
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: front of them for the first part.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I'm so sick of that conversation about nobody's going to
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: vote for a woman of color. I just I don't
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: think it's true. I think we can't look at Kamala
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: and say that's it right, like it's over right. She
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: her circumstances are so different and she as an individual, right,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: what do you think?
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I just agree?
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: I do?
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: I do? I no, I do because I think that.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: Women in general, women of color especially are always underestimated, right,
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: And I think that I think this country hates women,
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: and I know that this country hates people of color.
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: And I don't know what means to happen in order
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: for it to not be like a thing, Oh it's
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: a woman, it's always going to be that way, and
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: you know, and this idea of like, well her background was,
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: she's Indiana, she's African American, which isn't And I just
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: think that.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: It feels to me at a certain level, this country's.
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: Not ready because they don't want to be, not because
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: it's not possible, not because women are not capable.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: We are, But I think that.
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there are too many people who don't
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: think that women can do the job. It's too hard
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: of a job, and that a woman couldn't do it.
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: I know that that's not true, but there is something
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: about this country and I don't know what it is,
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: but that's for me.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: That's what I think.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of what you said is also
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: like the things people think that they would never say aloud, right,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Like people probably think, well, you just said that woman
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: couldn't handle leading the country, but that it's like a
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: thought that they keep to themselves.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think some people keep it to themselves,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: but I think a.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: Lot of people say that out loud, and you know,
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: they say it out loud with their entire chest and
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: they and they say the most, you know, and the
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: misogyny is just horrendous, this idea of like, oh, it's
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: she's a woman.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, women get a hormonal like do you
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? And so I think that a
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: lot of people are saying it out love.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: And it's also like inherent in the conversation around AOC
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: right of like can could she possibly be the candidate?
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: And it's like someone who's accomplished, who's well spoken, who
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: has a vision for the country for people to still
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: be like, I don't know, is there is inherent like
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: misogyny in that right for people to be like, she's ready?
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Is she ready? I don't know do people say that
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: about any white male president? Right, Like, did anyone ever
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: say that about No? No, it was never part of
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: that conversation. So I just you're right, like, and I
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: think you know, we can hold two things in our
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: hands at once.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: And I mean and I I I think it's getting.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Better slowly, but too slowly.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: I think the fact that there are a lot of
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: women who were being you know, as a mayor and
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: governor and all those things, I think that is an
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: indication of things changing. But there's something about the big
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: seat that I think that people are still are still.
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, I've heard people say that be like I
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: don't know if a woman could do the job. I
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: don't like and but they mean it, do you know
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: what I mean? And and this is and I think
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: that these are people who are sort of well meaning, right,
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: but they're like they're legitimately worried about what would happen
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: to the country if there was a woman at the helm.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, this isn't disagree, Yes.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: And.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: To try and again not just because like oh we
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: need not about the identity piece about the policy piece,
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: which to me is like the reason I would and
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: want to support AOC I hope she runs is because
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: of her policies, right, Like I actually it's very hard
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: for me to think of a singular another prominent national
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: political figure who has that same serious political ethos that
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: Bernie sandersy, which are like my politics and those are
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: on ethos, right and my view. You know, I was
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: on the Kamala campaign at the end, and like everything
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: you said is true. I think that that sexism and
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: racism played enormous, an enormous piece of this. I also
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: think that, like Kamala, Harris was also a flawed candidate
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: in many ways as well.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Right, as many as all as Joe Biden.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, I got killed online for this, but I
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: was it was honest, which was like I worked on
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: that campaign. If you put a gun to my head
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: right now, it'd be very difficult for me to regurgitates
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: you what those policies work, which is crazy. Yeah, it
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: was hard to understand. It was it was, it was
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: and so and so. Again that's not it's not defending
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: what happened there, but it's more to me, it's like
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: with AOC, it's a clear if you can do the Bernie,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: if you can do the Bernie argument, which is like
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: you got to just get him in the room. You've
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: got to force people to listen to him. And once
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: the bet is that once you can get them in
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: the room with him, all of a sudden they're in.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: And of course that conversion is gonna be much harder
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: with a with a woman of color from New York.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: I understand that, But I'd rather take that political bet
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: than send somebody like I don't know, Corey Booker or
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Gavin Newsom or who'stever you know, whoever else is just
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: going to be more established candidate, and let's change things
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: and let's like not do universal health care, but we'll
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: give you some tax credit that nobody can figure out.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: And like it doesn't work, it doesn't work. So like that,
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: to me, back to the beginning of this conversation, like
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: that should be our learning from what's going on in
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: New York is like people are hungry not just for change,
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: but for like radical specific things that benefit their lives.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: They want affordable housing, they want universal childcare, they want
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: universal health care. They want cheaper gas, they want cheaper groceries.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: They want community, they want care, they want a government
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: that shows up for them.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: And when you say it like that, it's like, that
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: shouldn't be that hard to put a bunch of candidates
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: forward that have that you know, or that are offering you, right,
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: it shouldn't be.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you a question.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: I know you've said many times that, I mean, we
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: know this to be true that the Democrats are losing men, sure,
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: sort of by the buckets, right, Why do.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: You think that is?
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, one is it's back that Unfortunately, to take
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: it back to the Joe Rogan piece, and again I
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: use Jo Rogan as like an example of a much
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: larger problem, which is, well, the first thing I'll say
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: is like we're loose. Democrats are losing like everybody, right,
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: Our numbers were dropping across the board. So that's just
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: it was just like the biggest delta with with men. Basically,
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: I genuinely think that one of the biggest problems when
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: it comes to men is messengers on the Democratic side,
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: and not just not just as a party, but progressives,
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: leftists whom whoever. When I got off the Common campaign,
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: I spent months going around the country, mainly on the
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: East coast, like talking to donors, talking to political leaders,
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: talking to people trying to fundraise base. I was trying
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: to get figure out how do we fundraise and get
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: money to support political creators, independent journalists, and I wanted
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: to help lift up men. I want to lift up
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: progressive men to be like, look, there's more people out here.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: And it was really hard to do that. The reason
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: that I one of the reasons I started doing the
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: content myself was because people kept coming up to me
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: and being like, well, like you're a guy, Like you're
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: a dude, like you talk about the stuff decently, Like
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: why do you try it? And I was like, I
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: don't want to. I don't want to, And I al
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: honestly started doing it out of frustration. I was. So
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: I was like, all right, like I'll just try this.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: And so that's a simplified answer, but I actually think
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: it's real. I think that one of the problems is
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: like we need more people on the left who are
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: men talking to men. They're not delivering scripted talking points
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: that were made in some DNC war room that was
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: like this is what men want to hear, this is
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: how you talk about football, Like no, like you I
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: just have messengers. That's one piece. I also think frankly
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: that like on a larger social discussion, like there is
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: a real tangible feeling among men everywhere that there was
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: a war on men. Right, I don't agree with that feeling,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: but you you pull men across the country, like there
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: was a feeling of that generally. And you know, one
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: of my feelings of the kind of like me too
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: movement and the post MeToo movement, and this wasn't a
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: failure of action or there wasn't an individual to point
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: at this, But something I say a lot is, you know,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: there's nothing we could have done in the moment. It's
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: only it's only retrospective. But I think that there was
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: a there was never a kind of like macro offering
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: of telling young men like, well, it's not just it's
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: not just what it's bad, but here's what's good. Here's
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: actually a better option. Right, Yes, we're telling what a
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: bad option is, but look at this other option of masculinity,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: look at this other option of community and work and whatever.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: And so I think there's many reasons, but I think that,
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: like I do think that like the Democrats as a whole,
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: they did failed a message to men. They did fail
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: to talk to them. They did fail to talk about
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: them about the things that they care about in ways
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: that they wanted that they that they tend to communicate.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Do you see, like right now, the success of progressive
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: ideals in current elections? Do you see the larger Democratic
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Party anywhere and any example taking those progressive ideals and
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: incorporating them into upcoming midterm elections given the most recent
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: successes with so Ron, with the races in New York, Yeah,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: is anyone learning from those lessons?
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: I mean I think, yes, I think, and I think
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: that's something we need to think about and we need
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: to do, we need to like communicate about. Is I
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: think there tends to be a kind of like a
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: misunderstanding of like what the Democratic Party is, right, Like
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: there's the DNC, which is its own organization, right capital
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: D Capital D Capital and Capital C and the DNC
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: itself we often in like dialogue and like we talk
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: about it as if it's in a room with Chuck
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Schumer and hickem Jeffres like drafting policy, Like that's not
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: what's happening. DNC is like functionally a fundraising body, Like
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: that's what their job is their job is to fundraise
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: and then distribute cash to races around the country and
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: help Democrats win. Then you have like the Democratic Party,
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: like congressional leaders and Senate leaders like Kim jeffres Chruck Schumer.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: That so to me, it's like it's two different conversations.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: And so I think, like the Democratic Party, we're seeing
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: it right. There's races that are happening, People are getting moved,
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: are getting pushed left. The DNC is not drafting policy.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: I think the DNC is going to follow where the
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: voters go. I think, to me, the real question is
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: the institutions, which are the current elected official Democrats. Those
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: are the people who we need to move and like
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: they have not proven themselves as moving yet, yeah, right,
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: Like those are the ones who have not you know,
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: who have not shifted on Israel or barely shifted on Israel,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: barely shifted on an APAC, barely shift on universal health care,
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: and who laugh at the progressive movement as childish or
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: stupid or inefficient or you don't know what you're doing here.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: Which again not to go back to grand Platners again,
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: when I think the grand Platner thing is such a
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: disaster because now they get they get the point of
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: that and say, we told you so, you guys don't
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: know what you're doing.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Therefore, come over here. Yeah, just put your weight and
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: energy in our racist Yeah.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Exactly, trust us. We know how to do this, even
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: though we keep losing elections.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Over right, right, right.
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: Trust us, you know. But I'll say, like, if they
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: were smart, they would shift right because the other thing
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: I'll say is like this whole idea of like we
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: need to go back to the middle is such bullshit
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: to me. There is no middle, right, Like, that's not
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: how this like fake spectrum that we have is non existent. Right,
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: And again, I think that's what like Bernie proves, and
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: it's what Zoron proved, like people have also forget Now
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: I'm ranting, but like New York in the presidential in
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty four was the biggest swing towards Trump of
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: anywhere in the country. So eleven point swinging, and Zoron
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: came in and pulled all those people back. And so
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: like you can win people who are either Republicans or
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: skeptical of Democrats, you can win them back with policies
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: that they like. Right, And again it's these policies. It's
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: these positions, and so they were movable. People are adaptable, right, Like,
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: especially if we're talking about these issues that literally affect individuals.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Right their day to day.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: There's someone who maybe maybe universal childcare didn't appeal to
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: someone five years ago, but now they got a kid, right,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: and they're trying to work, and health insurance premiums just
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: went up five hundred dollars a year for them, and
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: so now all of a sudden, that's a real that
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: is the issue they're voting for now.
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: Right, It's impossible to buy a home, you know, things
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: that are gas prices are ridiculous.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: They've been renting fifteen years. Finally they just renew the
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: airt least for the fifteenth year. Okay, yeah, maybe it's
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: time to buy a home and they realize, but not possible.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: And I waso think, like this is not to keep
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: time about Israel, Like I'm a Jewish, I'm Jewish, Like
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: this is I'm very clear on this how I feel about.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: This, Like I wanted to ask you about that. Yeah,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: you're a Jewish progressive voice in this space, right, how
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: do you like, how do you purchase this conversation? Because
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: I know you have Jewish friends as well, Like, how
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: do you talk to the family. Yeah, I mean it's not.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Horrible, it's horrible, but like I just felt like, and
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: continue to feel like, how fucking dare you use my
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: name to justify any of this? Right? Like they made
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: they decided to make it personal by conflating Judaism with Zionism,
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: by conflating Judaism with the state of Israel, and the
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: moment they did that and used my family and my
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: family's history and my community to defend a genocide. I
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: said that then like absolutely not, Like that's unacceptable to me.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: That's been one of the most incredible things about the
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: last year of this content is is this these discussions
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: around Israel because the amount of positive I mean, I
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: get destroyed, of course when I talk about it, Joe,
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: of course, but I also get so much positive feedback
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: from not just Palestinian Americans and Palestinians, but Jewish Americans
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: who were like, thank you for saying this. I don't.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: I haven't either. I felt these things, but I haven't
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: had the words to describe them. Or I feel these things,
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: but I'm terrified to say this to my dad or
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: to my uncle or at my synagogue, and so I
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: personally believe that like the most important voice in the
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: room right now, unfortunately, like is Jewish Americans speaking up
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: against these things, because those are the people who they're
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: the only ones who can say this is bullshit, this
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: is genocide, And they're the only ones who people can't
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: point out and say you're being an anti Semi because sorry,
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: I'm not an anti Semite. I'm Jewish. Hate to break
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: it too, you know, so, like it's up to it,
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: I think unfortunately the way it does fall on our
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: shoulders here, like we have to speak up against this stuff.
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: What about the argument that so you as a Jewish
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: man and if that's your stance, then you know you
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: are a victim of.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Like self loathing?
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: You must hear that alone self?
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: You Yeah, I did a whole video on this. I asked,
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: I said, can you please explain to me what it's
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: self hating JU means? Can somebody like write it out?
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: Like what does that mean? Genuinely? I don't understand. Do
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: I hate myself? Do I hate my family? Do I
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: hate my history? Do I hate what? Do I hate?
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: What does that mean? So to me? It's it's just
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: a ridiculous talking point. It doesn't make sense to me. No,
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: what I hate is people justifying genocide and killing with
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: any group of people, like it doesn't have it could
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: be anybody. But I just happened to be a Jew,
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: you know, and you know, for me, growing up Jewish,
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: my family was very Being Jewish was political, like being
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Jewish and being political was Jewish. Like the what Judaism
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: was in my family was quite literally like it was
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: learning about oppression, and it was learning about genocide, and
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: it was learning about imperialism, and it was protesting. And
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: I grew up going to anti Afghanistan war protests and
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: pride praise with my parents with my little sign, and
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: like it was always very clear to me that like
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: this is a Jewish act, Like that is what Jews do.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: We stand up and so to me, October seventh and
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: everything after was, and the reaction after was. It remains
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: confusing to me for many reasons, but one just being
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: I'm like, this isn't not like, how can you say
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: that where people who've experienced like immense harm and damage
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: and then choose to inflict that on another person. It
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't work. But to
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: bring that back to the kind of like everyday kitchen
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: table political issues that we're talking about. I also think
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: that's one of the reasons. I think this is one
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: of the reasons that a lot of Republicans and but
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: mainly like moderate Democrats, what they're missing here is that
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: I think Israel, and by Israel I mean like Israel's
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: actions in Palestine and Gaza. The reason one of the
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: reasons to become such an important issue for voters who
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: they didn't think it would be an issue for is
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: because it's a litmus test in the sense of it's like,
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: if this politician can't be honest about the slaughtering of
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: this family, how the fuck do I expect him to
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: care about me? Like? Right? I think it was like
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: like Coats said this, if we can't trust them with genocide,
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: how we're going to trust them with democracy? Right? Like
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: that to me is it's completely true. And I think
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: that that's why this is such a potent issue with
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: so many Americans who otherwise wouldn't care about foreign policy
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: is because if you don't, if you're if you're telling
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: me to deny and lie to myself about what I'm
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: seeing with my own two eyes about families and children
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: being slaughtered. Of course, I don't expect you're going to
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: fight for me and my struggling family. How does that?
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: How would that ever make sense? So to me, it's
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: a it's a the Israel issue. The Gauza issue is
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: a it shines a light on how these politicians view
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: the kitchen table problems. If you don't care about this,
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: how could you ever.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Care about Well, it came up with Zoron in the
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: debate what would be the first country you would visit
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: as mayor of New York And his answer was, why
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: do I need to visit any other country? This is
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: the race for New York City. So I was going
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: to be here. That was my plan, was to be
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: the mayor of New York City, where I'm running from mayor.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: So it was like and it was like, oh, you
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: can say that, right and right.
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: That this idea that you you can answer the question
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: like that.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: You don't know, you don't have to say, oh, I'll
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: go wherever, you know what I mean?
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: Let me ask you really quickly. I know you said
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: that you asked your audience what define a self hating you?
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: And so I'm sure you got lots of crazy answers,
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: but was there anybody who, even if you disagree with
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: what they said, who gave you like your self hating
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: you because of that?
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: No, no, don't. I don't really feel like I did.
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: I felt like there was there was a complete failure
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: to deliver on what It doesn't mean anything. So no,
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: no answer is no nobody nobody answer. No one had
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: a good answer for you. Right well, if you want
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: to fight in Charlie's comments, where can they find you?
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: You?
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you, I appreciate it's more. Uh, my online name
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: is Shay Chuck h easy c h U c K.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: It's on Instagram and TikTok.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: And if you're angry, just to m M right. I
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: think that's what you want.
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there would likely to be some larger progress
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: coming soon.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: That's exciting.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: I can talk to you about soon. But yeah, right now,
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: it's just there and amazing shows like this great.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining us.
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: It's great. Yeah, thank you for having.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: Me come back when you do whatever your next big
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: thing is.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: Love to hear about again.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back. That was so great. I'm so
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: glad we got to meet Chuck too. It was really
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: really Charlie Chuck.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: We didn't ask him call me by your name.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that was an interesting conversation.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Rose by any other name. No, that was really great.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting to think about.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: Your time for d MS. Okay, all right, so next
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: because so next week, I do I owe the people
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: of my DMS some answers, especially the city of boss
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Sten who seems to have hopped horseback and gone one
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: off Mineland tour by sea announced it. I'm come as
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: the crew announcing that I'm coming for them. After all
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: I said was one tiny little comment about the city
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: of Boston, and next thing I know.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: Let the record reflect that I liked.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Let the record reflect that she The firing squad was
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: lining up and Melissa said, do you want do you
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: need some help with that? You guys, dohyd you need
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: a little water with your aim. Anyway, thank you for
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: listening to brief recess. I'm Michael Foot, Melissa albris We'll
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: catch you next week.
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Unless you're from Boston. This has been an exactly right
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: production recorded at iHeart Studios, hosted by me Michael Foot.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: And me Melissa Albrant. Our producer is c. J. Ferroni.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci.
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: is Patria Cottner.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Tom Brievogeal with artwork
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: from Charlotte Delarue and Manessa Lilac, with photography by Brad Obono.
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hart Stark,
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: and Daniell Kramer.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Department or on TikTok at Michael foot.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Got legal questions, reach out at brief Recess at exactlyrightmedia
• 59:18
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• 59:24
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